For today’s special episode, Lawfare General Counsel and Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson held a series of conversations with contributors to a special series of articles on “The Dangers of Deploying the Military on U.S. Soil” that Lawfare recently published on its website, in coordination with our friends at Protect Democracy.

Participants include: Alex Tausanovitch, Policy Advocate at Protect Democracy; Laura Dickinson, a Professor at George Washington University Law School; Joseph Nunn, Counsel in the Liberty and National Security Program at the Brennan Center; Chris Mirasola, an Assistant Professor at the University of Houston Law Center; Mark Nevitt, a Professor at Emory University School of Law; Elaine McCusker, a Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute; and Lindsay P. Cohn, a Professor of National Security Affairs at the U.S. Naval War College. 

Together, they discussed how and why domestic deployments are being used, the complex set of legal authorities allowing presidents and governors to do so, and what the consequences might be, both for U.S. national security and for U.S. civil-military relations more generally.

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It’s Election Day, but we’re not talking about the campaign. Shane Harris welcomes Tim Naftali back to the show to talk about Americans’ fascination with the presidency. When did the “modern presidency” begin? When did voters and the press become fixated on presidents’ private lives? And what do we get wrong about the nation’s highest office? 

Naftali, a presidential historian, was last on Chatter in June 2022 to talk about Watergate, a subject on which he’s one of the country’s leading experts. Today’s conversation helps put the momentousness of this year’s election in some historic perspective. Have a listen while you’re standing in line to vote! 

People, plays, and policies discussed in this conversation include: 

• Theodore Roosevelt, the first modern president: https://millercenter.org/president/roosevelt/life-in-brief 
• Oh, Mary! by Cole Escola: https://www.ohmaryplay.com/ 
• The presidential “kill list”: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/newly-declassified-document-sheds-light-on-how-president-approves-drone-strikes/2016/08/06/f424fe50-5be0-11e6-831d-0324760ca856_story.html 
• The Jimmy Carter “running” photo: https://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2025424_2025864_2025986,00.html 
• Teddy White: white-chronicler-of-us-politics-is-dead-at-71.html">https://www.nytimes.com/1986/05/16/obituaries/theodore-white-chronicler-of-us-politics-is-dead-at-71.html 
• Read more about Naftali and his work: https://www.sipa.columbia.edu/communities-connections/faculty/timothy-naftali 

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Dakota Cary, Strategic Advisory Consultant at SentinelOne, joins Lawfare Senior Editor Eugenia Lostri, to discuss his article on U.S. attempts to deter Chinese hacking group Volt Typhoon. They talk about why Volt Typhoon won’t stop its intrusions against critical infrastructure, whether other hacking groups can be deterred, and where we should focus our attention to counter malicious activity.

Materials discussed during the episode:

• "Exploring Chinese Thinking on Deterrence in the Not-So-New Space and Cyber Domains," by Nathan Beauchamp-Mustafaga
• Final Report of the Defense Science Board (DSB) Task Force on Cyber Deterrence, February 2017
• The Atlantic Council report, "Adapting US strategy to account for China’s transformation into a peer nuclear power," by David O. Shullman, John K. Culver, Kitsch Liao, and Samantha Wong

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An old Soviet bioweapons lab shows new sign of life—and growth. Thousands of North Korean soldiers are in Russia to fight against Ukraine. And Russian President Vladimir Putin seems to have Elon Musk's direct line. What's going on in Russia? 

Lawfare's Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sits down with Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman and Tim Mak of The Counteroffensive to talk through the news of the weird from Russia.

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From May 1, 2018: Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt, authors of the new book “How Democracies Die,” join Benjamin Wittes for a conversation about the conditions under which democracies survive and how American democracy can survive its experiment with populism.

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This episode of “Lawfare Live: National Security and the 2024 Election,” was recorded on October 29 in front of a live audience on YouTube and Zoom. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson, Senior Fellow in Governance Studies at Brookings Elaine Kamarck, Visiting Fellow at Brookings and director of the Katzmann Initiative Katie Tenpas, and Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett about what occurs during a presidential transition, what went wrong in 2020, and how Harris and Trump have begun to prepare for the transition.

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Lawfare Senior Editor Anna Bower and Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sit down with Senior Editor Roger Parloff to discuss David Clements, who has led religiously inspired "trainings" across the U.S. teaching citizens how to stop local election officials from certifying elections the trainees consider fraudulent. Anna describes a training she attended, and Ben discusses, and plays clips from, his two-hour interview with Clements. 

You can read more about this story in the new Lawfare article, "David Clements: The Evangelist of Election Refusal," which includes audio of the full two-hour interview between Ben and Clements.

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Alan Rozenshtein, Benjamin Wittes, and Molly Reynolds to talk through the week’s big national security news, including:

• “An Eye for an Iran.” After weeks of waiting, Israel finally launched the strikes on Iran it had long promised in response to the volley of missiles Iran hit it with earlier this month. Compared to expectations, the strikes were relatively limited and aimed primarily at Iranian military targets, instead of its nuclear and oil infrastructure. And the United States is now urging an end to these “tit-for-tat” strikes. But is this likely to be the case? Or are Israel’s actions just the beginning of a bigger conflict?
• “He Just Slid into my DMs!” This week, the Wall Street Journal published a stunning report indicating that billionaire industrialist Elon Musk has been having previously undisclosed communications with Russian President Vladimir Putin and other senior Russian officials. How concerning should these conversations be? And what ramifications might they have for U.S. national security?
• “Post Mortem.” Washington Post owner Jeff Bezos’s late decision to squash an official editorial board endorsement of Kamala Harris—and to abstain from presidential endorsements moving forward—has triggered a tidal wave of opposition, leading to hundreds of thousands of canceled subscriptions from a newspaper that was already set to lose substantial sums of money this year. How wrong-headed was Bezos’s move? And what should the proper response be?

For object lessons, Alan hyped the sci-fi classic "Hyperion Cantos," by Dan Simmons. Molly celebrated a profile of a former student of hers by the inestimable W. Kama Bell, which is part of a new Washington Post series on civil servants. Scott urged listeners to get out and participate in democracy this pre-Election Day weekend. And Ben logrolled for Lawfare’s newest podcast endeavor: Escalation, an audio documentary series on the origins of the conflict in Ukraine.

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Nick Quested, Emmy Award-winning director, discusses with Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff his recent film, "64 Days: The Insurrection Playbook," about the 64 days leading up to the Jan. 6 Capitol Siege. 

They discuss how he came to make the film, his interviews with Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio months before, days before, and then hours after the insurrection. They also discuss the testimony he gave to the Jan. 6 Committee and at the Proud Boys seditious conspiracy trial and the challenges he's experienced in trying to distribute this film. 

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The Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) has taken a leading role in coordinating efforts to secure the 2024 election—from ensuring the physical security of election workers, to protecting election systems from cyber threats, to identifying foreign influence campaigns and preparing for deepfakes. With a week until Election Day, Senior Editors Quinta Jurecic and Eugenia Lostri spoke with CISA’s Cait Conley, Senior Advisor to the agency’s director, about how CISA is working to protect the vote. 

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Mark Pomar served as assistant director of the Russian Service at Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, director of the USSR Division at the Voice of America, executive director of the Board for International Broadcasting. He joined David Priess to talk about the origins of US government-funded international broadcasting, differences between RFE/RL and VOA, tensions between strategists and purists over the radios' content, the impacts of detente and of Reagan's more hawkish approach, KGB infiltrations of RFE/RL, changes to the radios toward the end of the Cold War, the role of RL in August 1991's failed coup against Gorbachev, perceptions of the radios after the Cold War, Mark's book Cold War Radio and his current research into Radio Liberty, the relevance of this history for today, and more.

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

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Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor at the University of Minnesota Law School and Senior Editor at Lawfare, sits down with David Kris, founder of Culper Partners and the former Assistant Attorney General for National Security in the Obama administration, to talk about a new paper that David has published as part of Lawfare's ongoing Digital Social Contract series, entitled "A Data Proxy for Clients of Cloud Service Providers.”

Kris argues that cloud storage offers significant benefits for security and efficiency, but many organizations may be hesitant to adopt it due to the risk of secret disclosure: the practice by which law enforcement can compel cloud service providers to turn over customer data while legally prohibiting them from notifying the customer. To address this concern, Kris proposes the appointment of a "data proxy," a highly trusted individual (like a retired federal judge) who would be contractually authorized to represent the organization's interests when it cannot represent itself due to a nondisclosure order.

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Aram Gavoor, Associate Dean for Academic Affairs at GW Law, joins Kevin Frazier, Senior Research Fellow in the Constitutional Studies Program at the University of Texas at Austin and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to summarize and analyze the first-ever national security memo on AI. The two also discuss what this memo means for AI policy going forward, given the impending election.

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From April 10, 2023: On March 23, 2023, an Indian court found Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s principal opposition leader, Rahul Gandhi, guilty of defaming the Prime Minister and the Modi surname. He was sentenced to two years in prison and expelled from Parliament in what journalists and pro-democracy groups view as yet another inflection point of democratic decline under Modi’s leadership. 

To understand the challenges facing Indian society and the current deterioration of India’s democracy, Lawfare Legal Fellow Saraphin Dhanani sat down with Debasish Roy Chowdhury, an Indian journalist based in Hong Kong and Calcutta, who has written extensively on Indian politics, society, and geopolitics. He co-authored a book titled “To Kill a Democracy: India’s Passage to Despotism,” which paints a chilling history and reality of the state of Indian democracy. They discussed the Rahul Gandhi case, the spillover of Hindu nationalism into mainstream politics under Modi’s leadership, and the future of India’s democracy. 

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This episode of “Lawfare Live: “Trump’s Trials and Tribulations” was recorded on October 24 in front of a live audience on Youtube and Zoom.

Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editors Quinta Jurecic and Roger Parloff about the recently released redacted appendices in the Jan. 6 case, where the various state-level fake elector cases stand, and more.

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Hunter Marston, PhD candidate at the Australian National University and Southeast Asia Associate at 9DashLine, joins Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to explore the economic and geopolitical significance of the South China Sea. Hunter leans on his extensive knowledge of Southeast Asian politics and history to paint a comprehensive picture of why the next Administration should pay close attention to this geographical hotbed of political tension.

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This week, Scott was joined by his Lawfare colleagues Tyler McBrien and Anna Hickey and special guest Georgetown University professor and CSIS Senior Fellow (as well as Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor) Dan Byman to talk over the week’s big national security news, including:

• “Some Vacancies in Management.” Israeli forces unintentionally hit their number one target last week when an Israeli military patrol in Gaza stumbled across and killed Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar, who is widely believed to be the main architect behind the October 7 massacre. It’s the latest in a series of military operations that have left the leadership ranks of both Hamas and Hezbollah decimated. But what are these changes at the top likely to mean for these organizations? Is this an opportunity for peace? Or an opening to greater escalation?
• “Forgotten, or Not Forgotten Enough.” Sudan has spent the past several months spiraling toward a political and humanitarian crisis of historical proportions, driven in substantial part by the agendas of outside powers. But the situation has received relatively little attention from the global media or broader international community. What do we need to know about the Sudan crisis? And how does (or should) U.S. policy enter into the equation?
• “Person-ey Non Grat-ey.” Relations between Canada and India have hit a new low, as Canadian officials have accused Indian officials of leading a campaign to intimidate and interfere with Sikh nationals resident in Canada, as part of a broader international campaign. While Canada has gone so far as to expel involved Indian diplomats, its traditional allies—including the United States—have remained far less confrontational with India, despite concerns over similar types of behavior. What explains this difference in approach? And what tack should the United States take moving forward?

For object lessons, Tyler celebrated the NY Liberty’s victory and urged basketball fans to get on the WNBA bandwagon. Scott urged D.C. residents to visit the beautiful Kenilworth Aquatic Gardens for a real taste of the swamp. Dan tripled down on the podcast’s endorsement of the spy thriller Slow Horses. And Anna recommended folks check out Bolts Magazine’s annual election cheat sheet as they prepare for the big event in just two weeks.

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Eugenia Lostri, Senior Editor at Lawfare, sits down with Sam Kessler, Deputy Managing Editor for Tech and Protocols at CoinDesk, to talk about his recent investigation into how North Korean IT workers are infiltrating the crypto industry. They talked about the red flags that companies should be looking out for, why the crypto industry is particularly vulnerable, and the connection between these workers and the North Korean hacking arm.

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Mark Chinen, Professor at Seattle University School of Law, joins Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to discuss his recent work on international human rights law as a framework for AI governance. Professor Chinen explores the potential of IHRL to address AI-related challenges, the implications of recent developments like the Council of Europe AI treaty, and the intersection of philosophy, divinity, and AI governance.

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Professor Sanford Levinson has written extensively about the fragility of the Constitution. A likely contested election, AI, and ongoing gridlock makes his long-stemming concerns all the more relevant. In this episode of Chatter, Kevin Frazier, a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, sat down with Sandy, a professor at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law to explore how Sandy's thinking about the need for a wholesale revision of the Constitution has evolved, whether or not the Supreme Court is the most important decision maker in American society, the impact of constitutional amendments on the state level, and much more.

More about Sandy Levinson: https://law.utexas.edu/faculty/sanford-v-levinson/

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

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For today's episode, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Sarah Yerkes, Senior Fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, and Sabina Henneberg, the Soref Fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Peace, to discuss recent elections in Tunisia, which saw increasingly authoritarian President Kais Saied returned to office with a purported 91% of the vote. They discussed the elections' lack of credibility, how they have been received by U.S. and other foreign officials, and what they say about the trajectory of democracy, both in Tunisia and elsewhere in the Middle East.

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The journalist Atossa Araxia Abrahamian begins her new book, “The Hidden Globe: How Wealth Hacks the World,” in her hometown: Geneva, Switzerland. She writes, “I began this book about the world on a lifelong hunch: there was something strange about the place where I grew up…I am, and will always be, a part of this world apart—a place defined by a certain placelessness.” 

It turns out that Geneva is just one entrepôt of many on the hidden globe, which Abrahamian describes as a network of “spaces defined by surprising or unconventional jurisdiction—embassies, freeports, tax havens, container ships, Arctic archipelagoes, and tropical city-states,” which make up “the lifeblood of the global economy” and are “a defining part of our daily lives.” Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien explored these often far-flung places with Abrahamian, who described the origins of “extraterritorial domains” well beyond Geneva, in Mauritius, Dubai, Svalbard (Norway), Roatán (Honduras), Boten (Laos), and beyond—even in outer space.

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From July 7, 2022: The United States Secret Service has many important missions, the most public of which is protecting the president of the United States. And in this mission, its motto is "Zero Fail." There is no window for them to let their guard down when it comes to protecting the commander-in-chief.

And yet, the past several decades of the Secret Service's protection have seen gaps, mistakes and exposures of some fundamental problems within the Secret Service itself. Carol Leonnig is a Pulitzer Prize-winning national investigative reporter at the Washington Post known for her reporting on the Secret Service, as well as the Trump presidency and many other topics. She is also the author of the new book, "Zero Fail: The Rise and Fall of the Secret Service." She sat down with David Priess to talk about the United States Secret Service, its mission, its challenges and potential reforms to get over some of its most fundamental flaws.

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This episode of “Lawfare Live: National Security and the 2024 Election” was recorded on October 15 in front of a live audience on Youtube and Zoom.

Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editors Quinta Jurecic, Eugenia Lostri, and Alan Rozenshtein, Lawfare Tarbell Fellowin Artificial Intelligence Kevin Frazier, and Associate Professor of Law at St. John's University Law School Kate Klonick. They discussed former President Trump and Vice President Harris’s positions on various tech policies, like content moderation, AI, cybersecurity, antitrust, and TikTok bans.

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Following Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s speech to the Ukrainian Parliament outlining his victory plan, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina and Eric Ciaramella of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. They talked about the components of the plan, the reaction from the United States and other allies, and what the plan says about the state of Ukraine's war effort.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes, Anastasiia Lapatina, and Eugenia Lostri to try to make sense of the week’s biggest national security news stories, including:

• “Kursked.” This week, even as Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky rolls out his “Victory Plan” to Western allies, Russian forces have made progress reclaiming what some have described as a key part of that plan: the region of Kursk within Russia, which Ukrainian forces seized earlier this year. How central is Kursk to Zelensky’s vision for how to end the conflict? And how will Russia’s apparent progress impact his plans?
• “The Waiting Game.” The world remains on the edge of its seat, waiting to see how Israel will pursue its promised response against Iran for the volley of missiles the latter launched against it earlier this month. What sort of response does Israel seem to have in store? And what role will the United States be playing?
• “Tap Tap Tapping.” A coalition of China-associated hackers called “Salt Typhoon” is believed to have hacked the system used by telecommunications companies to comply with U.S. legal warrants. How big a deal is this? And what might its implications be for the United States surveillance system writ large?

For object lessons, Ben shared his electronic composition “Trump Portrait” (with apologies to both Aaron Copeland and Abraham Lincoln). Nastya recommended “The Road to Unfreedom,” by Timothy Snyder, as an essential portrait of the road to Russia’s brutality. Scott sang the praises of the Slate podcast “One Year,” especially for those seeking informative and (mostly) family-friendly podcast fare. And Eugenia endorsed the series “Nobody Wants This,” the most grounded and realistic rabbi-meets-sex podcaster romcom you’ve ever seen.

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Jonathan Zittrain, Faculty Director of the Berkman Klein Center at Harvard Law, joins Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to dive into his recent Atlantic article, “We Need to Control AI Agents Now.” The pair discuss what distinguishes AI agents from current generative AI tools and explore the sources of Jonathan’s concerns. They also talk about potential ways of realizing the control desired by Zittrain. For those eager to dive further into the AI agent weeds, Zittrain mentioned this CSET report, which provides a thorough exploration into the promises and perils of this new step in AI’s development. You may also want to explore “Visibility into AI Agents,” penned by Alan Chan et al. 

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

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In early September, the U.S. Justice Department released a trove of information about the Russian influence campaign known as “Doppelganger”—a Kremlin-backed effort that created faux versions of familiar news websites and seeding them with fake material. Just a few weeks later, the German publication Süddeutsche Zeitung reported that it had received a tranche of hacked materials from inside the Doppelganger operation. 

Thomas Rid, a professor at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies and the founding director of the school’s Alperovitch Institute for Cybersecurity Studies, got an inside look at those documents. In a new article in Foreign Affairs, “The Lies Russia Tells Itself,” he examines the “granular operational insight” that this material provides into the active measures campaign. He joined the Lawfare Podcast to talk with Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic about his findings—and why he believes the documents show that “the biggest boost the Doppelganger campaigners got was from the West’s own anxious coverage of the project.”

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The Earth's oceans differ from its land areas in many ways, including the historically powerful norm of "freedom of the seas." David Priess hosted David Bosco, Executive Associate Dean and Professor at Indiana University's Hamilton Lugar School of Global and International Studies, for a discussion about the origins and core principles of the freedom of the seas concept, Hugo Grotius, the practice of maritime commerce from ancient times until now, the three mile "cannon-shot" rule of territorial waters, privateering, piracy, the role of shipwrecks in spurring international cooperation on maritime safety, the norm of major canals being open to all, undersea cables, the unraveling of the freedom of the seas doctrine in the 20th century, the post-World War II era of expanding ocean claims, exclusive economic zones, optimism about the future of ocean governance, David Bosco's book The Poseidon Project, and more.

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

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What are the antitrust implications of AI systems? At a recent conference co-hosted by Lawfare and the Georgetown Institute for Law and Technology, Lawfare Senior Editor Alan Rozenshtein sat down with David Lawrence, the Policy Director at the the Department of Justice's Antitrust Division to talk about how competition law applies to the makers and users of AI models.

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From March 8, 2023: A few weeks ago, Human Rights Watch released a report on the forced expulsion of the Chagossian people, whom the United Kingdom deported from their island homes in the Indian Ocean about 60 years ago to make way for the United States to build a military base called Diego Garcia. The report recommends reparations for the Chagossian people and a trial for individuals responsible for these crimes against humanity—the very first time the group has laid such a charge at the door of the US and UK. 

Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Philippe Sands, an international human rights lawyer who served as counsel for Mauritius in its bid to reclaim sovereignty over the Chagos Archipelago. Philippe is the author of several books, including his most recent, "The Last Colony: A Tale of Exile, Justice and Britain's Colonial Legacy," which is about the islands. They discussed the Chagossian people’s decades-long legal struggle to return to their ancestral home, a chance phone call from a ski lift, and the role of race and identity in the making and application of international law. 

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From September 14, 2023: It’s been another brutal summer with seemingly constant natural disasters precipitated by climate change. The United States and other countries have rightfully begun thinking of climate change as a security issue. But extreme weather is not the only challenge we must contend with. There’s also the problem of climate change’s victims, many of whom are forced to leave their homes. 

Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sat down with Erin Sikorsky, Director of the Center for Climate & Security at the Council on Strategic Risks, to talk about this phenomenon, which is often referred to as climate migration. They discussed the scope of the climate migration crisis, its security implications, and how we can try to mitigate the harm.

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This episode of “Trump’s Trials and Tribulations,” was recorded on Oct. 10 in front of a live audience on YouTube and Zoom.

Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke with Harvard Law School professor Jack Goldsmith and Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower and Roger Parloff. They discussed Jack’s smith-trump-biden.html">recent op-ed in the New York Times—in which he argued that the Justice Department’s recent filing in the Jan. 6 case is in tension with department policy, and that the department should publicly justify the filing and related actions. Bower and Parloff also ticked through other Trump litigation activity in D.C., Florida, Georgia, and New York.

Learn more about Lawfare’s new livestream series about the national security issues at play in the 2024 presidential election.

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Following the devastation of Hurricane Helene in western North Carolina, rumors and conspiracy theories about the disaster quickly began spreading online—some of them outrageous and bizarre, and some of them legitimate efforts to make sense of a confusing and frightening situation. With Hurricane Milton moving through Florida, the confusion seems unlikely to let up anytime soon. The volume of rumors circulating “is absolutely the worst I have ever seen,” FEMA Administrator Deanne Criswell told reporters.

There’s no one better positioned to speak to these issues than Kate Starbird, the co-founder of the University of Washington’s Center for an Informed Public, who studies both online rumors and disinformation along with crisis informatics, or how information circulates in the wake of disaster. Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic spoke with Kate about why rumors spread after disasters, whether the flood of falsehoods is worse this time around, and how confusion following the hurricanes may set the groundwork for future conspiracy theories about the November election.

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Molly Reynolds, Kevin Frazier, and Katherine Pompilio to talk over the week's big national security news stories, including:

• “The Fourth Law of Robotics is, You Don’t Talk About the First Three Laws of Robotics.” California Governor Gavin Newsom vetoed SB 1047 this past week, a measure that would have imposed the first set of meaningful safety regulations on the development of Artificial Intelligence (AI)—measures industry leaders said were onerous and unnecessary. While Newsom vetoed this legislation, he endorsed the broader idea of safety action on AI, including at the state level. What does Newsom’s move tell us about the state of the AI industry and efforts to regulate it?
• “Battening Down the Hatchetmen.” As countless Americans have struggled through the aftermath of Hurricane Helene—and are preparing for Hurricane Milton, due to make landfall Wednesday—Congress has been in recess. And Speaker of the House Mike Johnson has expressed his opposition to any effort to call them back early to provide, among other things, supplemental emergency funding. What is the logic behind Johnson’s opposition? And what does it tell us about the state of Congress as we head into a potentially historic election?
• “Premature Articulation.” Last week, Special Counsel Jack Smith filed a massive brief laying out how his prosecution of former President Donald Trump can proceed within the (very messy) framework laid out by the Supreme Court in its immunity decision earlier this year. But the timing of this filing (and its unsealing) has some claiming that Smith is acting out of political animus. What’s the significance of this filing? And should Smith have waited until after the election? 

For object lessons, Molly asked whether the Mets rally pumpkin would go the way of Liz Truss's head of lettuce. Kevin urged listeners to help out needy Floridians suffering through the hurricanes through Feeding Florida. Scott sang the epic tale of his own hurricane refugee mother, and her long and unexpected drive up the east coast. And Katherine recommended the album "Big Ideas" by the life-changing artist Remi Wolf, and offers a warning against being influenced by the influencers.

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Tyler McBrien, Managing Editor of Lawfare, sat down with Lisa Luksch, a curator at the Architekturmuseum der TUM; Anjli Parrin, Assistant Clinical Professor of Law and Director of the Global Human Rights Clinic at the University of Chicago; and Brad Samuels, a founding partner at SITU and the Director of SITU Research. They talked about a new exhibition, “Visual Investigations: Between Advocacy, Journalism, and Law,” which opens on Oct. 10 at the Architekturmuseum der TUM in Munich. The exhibition explores the emergent field of visual investigation, which brings together interdisciplinary teams of architects, filmmakers, computer scientists, and others who synthesize images, video, and other data to present factual accounts of human rights abuses. 

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For today’s episode, Loyaan Egal, the Chief of the Enforcement Bureau at the Federal Communications Commission (“FCC”), sat down with Lawfare Senior Editor and General Counsel Scott R. Anderson and Lawfare Contributing Editor and Morrison Foerster partner Brandon Van Grack to discuss the FCC’s growing but often underappreciated role in advancing U.S. national security. 

They covered how the FCC’s mandate intersects with U.S. national security concerns, how the FCC is tackling cutting-edge issues ranging from undersea cables to artificial intelligence-enabled election interference, and what other national security challenges the FCC is looking out for on the horizon. 

This episode is part of our special series, “The Regulators,” co-sponsored with Morrison Foerster, in which Brandon and Scott sit down with senior U.S. officials working at the front lines of U.S. national security and economic statecraft.

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Stoicism is having a moment.The ancient philosophy--which posits that you can’t control events, but you can control how you respond to them--has lately been embraced by self-help gurus and tech bros. But Nancy Sherman writes that the tenets of Stoicism have long found a receptive audience in “the military mind.” Whether they know it or not, soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines are guided by many of the principles espoused by Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius. 

Sherman, a professor at Georgetown University, is the author of several books, including Stoic Warriors: The Ancient Philosophy behind the Military Mind. She spoke with Shane Harris about why Stoic virtues resonate with those who serve in uniform and what the philosophy can teach everyone about how to live well amid uncertainty and struggle. 

Books and people discussed in this episode include: 

“Stoic Warriors: The Ancient Philosophy behind the Military Mind” by Nancy Sherman https://global.oup.com/academic/product/stoic-warriors-9780195315912?cc=us&lang=en&  

Cicero https://iep.utm.edu/cicero-roman-philosopher/ 

Marcus Aurelius https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/marcus-aurelius/ 

Epictetus https://iep.utm.edu/epictetu/ 

Seneca’s “De Beneficiis” h.htm">https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3794/3794-h/3794-h.htm 

James Stockdale https://www.defense.gov/News/Feature-Stories/story/Article/2097870/medal-of-honor-monday-navy-vice-adm-james-stockdale/ 

Thomas Gibbons-Neff https://www.nytimes.com/by/thomas-gibbons-neff 

Ian Fishback https://www.npr.org/2023/08/09/1192996954/ian-fishback-who-blew-the-whistle-on-torture-by-the-u-s-military-was-laid-to-res 

Hugh Thompson oe-wiener-my-lai-hugh-thompson-20180316-story.html">https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-wiener-my-lai-hugh-thompson-20180316-story.html 

Edward Villella https://sab.org/scenes/sab-trailblazer-edward-villella/ 

More about Nancy Sherman https://www.nancysherman.com/ 

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Isabelle Kerby-McGowan and Megan Nadolski of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

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Jake Effoduh, Assistant Professor at Lincoln Alexander School of Law, joins Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to share his research on the Global South’s perspective on AI. Jake has carved a unique and important research agenda looking into how AI advances are impacting the pursuit and realization of human rights in Africa. 

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Kyle Cheney, Senior Legal Affairs Reporter for Politico, discusses his recent Politico article on the legal and political landmines threatening the criminal prosecutions of rioters involved in the Jan. 6 Capitol siege.

Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff sat down with Kyle to discuss a serious legal challenge to the key misdemeanor charge leveled in more than 90 percent of Jan. 6 cases, a troubling ruling from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit declaring most so-called “geofencing” warrants unconstitutional, and former President Trump’s promises to pardon many Jan. 6 defendants if he wins reelection.

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This episode of “Trump's Trials and Tribulations,” was recorded on October 3 in front of a live audience on YouTube and Zoom.

Lawfare Senior Editor Scott Anderson spoke to Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Quinta Jurecic, and Roger Parloff about Special Counsel Jack Smith’s immunity motion in the Jan 6 case against former President Trump, what it means for the future of the case and of course took audience questions.

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From October 11, 2023: This past Saturday, the terrorist group Hamas launched an unprecedented raid from the Gaza Strip into southern Israel that left more than 1000 people – most of them Israeli civilians, many of them women, children, and the elderly – brutally murdered. Dozens more were taken as hostages back into Gaza. A shocked Israel has in turn responded with missile attacks into Gaza that have killed more than 800 Palestinians there, and is planning a broader offensive there. And as people search for more information on what’s transpired, there are concerns that events may yet spiral out into a broader regional war – one that, among other consequences, might derail efforts at normalization in the Israeli-Saudi relationship that have been a major focus of the United States in recent weeks.

To discuss these tragic events and their potentially seismic consequences, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott Anderson sat down with a panel of leading experts: Natan Sachs, Fellow at the Brookings Institution and director of our Center for Middle East Policy; Dan Byman, from the Center for Strategic & International Studies as well as Lawfare’s foreign policy editor; Ghaith al-Omeri of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy; and Lawfare’s own Editor-In-Chief Benjamin Wittes. They discussed the ripple effects the attack is having throughout the region, the role that Iran and other actors may have played, and what it may yet mean for the region and the broader world.

Please note that this episode contains content that some people may find disturbing. Listener discretion is advised.

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California Governor Gavin Newsom recently vetoed SB 1047, the controversial AI safety bill passed by the California legislature. Lawfare Senior Editor Alan Rozenshtein sat down with St. Thomas University College of Law Assistant Professor Kevin Frazier and George Mason University Mercatus Research Fellow Dean Ball to discuss what was in the bill, why Newsom vetoed it, and where AI safety policing goes from here.

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This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes, Quinta Jurecic, and Tyler McBrien to try to make sense of the week’s biggest national security news stories, including:

• “Pulling Up the Escalation Ladder.” Israel’s escalating campaign against Hezbollah turned regional yesterday, as Iran launched a salvo of more than 180 ballistic missiles against Israel. While the damage was limited, both Israel and the United States have promised consequences. What strategies are Israel, Iran, and the United States pursuing in all this? And where will it lead?
• “At Least He Didn’t Get Aslan Killed.” New York City Mayor Eric Adams’s passion for Turkish delights has led to his indictment on multiple charges relating to alleged corruption, specifically at the behest of individuals associated with the Turkish and potentially other foreign governments. Adams, in turn, claims he is being targeted for, among other reasons, speaking out about immigration concerns. What is the real driver behind Adams’s indictment? 
• “Devil Came Down to Georgia.” Hurricane Helene wreaked havoc on the American southeast this past week—not just in coastal areas accustomed to hurricane season damage, but also deep inland as it cut through and past the Gulf of Mexico. In parts of southern Appalachia, the storm caused immense flooding that has wiped out whole towns and resulted in dozens of deaths. The aftermath is raising countless policy concerns, from ways to heighten resilience to concerns over the impact on the forthcoming general election. How should hurricanes and other extreme weather events—widely understood to be, in part, products of climate change—figure into our national security?

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For today’s episode, Lawfare General Counsel and Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Richard Gowan, the U.N. Director for the International Crisis Group, to review what went down at the recent U.N. General Assembly High-Level Week.

They discussed how the national leaders who gathered in New York for the meetings responded to the ongoing conflicts in Gaza, Ukraine, and Sudan; how strategic competition between China, Russia, and the United States shaped the proceedings; and what it can tell us about where the United Nations is headed.

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Israel has hit Hezbollah very hard over the past few days, killing much of its senior leadership and eroding its capabilities. It has also displaced hundreds of thousands of Lebanese and now has ground forces in Lebanon. Iran has responded with a missile barrage against Israel, to which an Israeli response is widely expected. To discuss the latest events in the expanding war, Lawfare's Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Firas Maksad of the Middle East Institute, Natan Sachs of the Brookings Institution, and Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson.

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Conspiracy theories about supposed Jewish control of global finance and politics have been circulating and influencing popular culture for centuries, with the spotlight often falling on the Rothschild family. Author Mike Rothschild (no relation), who has researched and written about the phenomenon in his book Jewish Space Lasers, joined David Priess to discuss the appeal of conspiracy theories overall, the genesis of the Rothschilds' wealth, legends about the family's involvement in the Battle of Waterloo and other major world events, how the expansion of Rothschild commercial interests in the 1800s spurred paranoia about the family's influence, Nazi-era movies about the Rothschilds, why the family failed to gain traction in the United States, the connections between anti-Semitism and grand conspiracy theories, Stanley Kubrick's Eyes Wide Shut, Marjorie Taylor Greene's "Jewish space lasers" comments, and more.

Works mentioned in this episode:

The book The Storm Is Upon Us by Mike Rothschild

The book Jewish Space Lasers by Mike Rothschild

The movie Eyes Wide Shut

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Jay Venables of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

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Robert Mahari, a joint JD-PhD candidate at the MIT Media Lab and Harvard Law School, joins Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to explain how increased use of AI agents may lead humans to form troublingly and even addictive relationships with artificial systems. Robert also shares the significance of his research on common uses of existing generative AI systems. This interview builds on Robert’s recent piece in the MIT Tech Review, which he co-authored with Pat Pataranutaporn.

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New York Mayor Eric Adams is facing indictment in connection with a foreign influence scheme involving Turkey. It’s the latest in a long string of actions by the Justice Department to counter foreign efforts to interfere in the American political system. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Managing Editor Tyler McBrien, Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic, and Contributing Editor Brandon Van Grack to discuss the charges against Adams and the larger pattern of which they are a part.

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From September 21, 2022: This past Monday, the criminal trial of Thomas Barrack began in federal court in the Eastern District of New York. Barrack, who served as an informal advisor to the 2016 Trump campaign and then as chair of Trump's inaugural committee, is alleged to have acted as a foreign agent of the United Arab Emirates. According to the indictment, Barrack acted as a back channel for the UAE to influence U.S. foreign policy.

Lawfare executive editor Natalie Orpett sat down with Alex Iftimie, a partner at the law firm Morrison Foerster, and a former Department of Justice attorney specializing in national security matters, including the Foreign Agents Registration Act, or FARA, and related statutes. They discussed the case against Barrack, the significance of the charges to broader enforcement strategy, and why foreign influence matters for U.S. national security.

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This episode of “Lawfare Live: National Security and the 2024 Election” was recorded on September 24 in front of a live audience on Youtube and Zoom.

Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editors Scott R. Anderson, Molly Reynolds, Quinta Jurecic, and Anna Bower and Professor of Law at Stanford Law School Nate Persily. They discussed how Congress has prepared for the 2024 election, including the passage of the Electoral Count Reform Act of 2022, how the government and social media companies are addressing election-related disinformation, and how states have used the lessons of 2020 to prepare for the 2024 election.

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Geoff Schaefer, Head of Responsible AI at Booz Allen Hamilton, and Alyssa Lefaivre Škopac, an independent responsible AI strategist, join Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to detail the Responsible AI Top-20 Controls. As governments, corporations, and nonprofits face increasing pressure to integrate AI into their operations, how to do so in an ethical and responsible fashion has remained an open question. Geoff and Alyssa offer their insights on jumpstarting AI governance within any institution.

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This week, Scott was joined by Natalie Orpett, Anna Bower, and Matt Gluck to talk over some of the week's big national security news, including:

• “Some Assembly Required.” On Tuesday, President Biden gave his fourth and final speech as president to the U.N. General Assembly. He used the occasion to reflect on the many foreign policy decisions of his presidency, including the withdrawal from Afghanistan, opposition to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and the (thus far unsuccessful) pursuit of a ceasefire in the conflict in Gaza. What does this speech—and the year’s U.N. General Assembly more broadly—tell us about the state of his foreign policy legacy?
• “Keeping it Peachy.” Georgia’s state election board is in the news for rules changes that some allege could delay finalization of the 2024 election results, opening a possible door for Congress to manipulate the results. But what will these rules changes really mean? And what does it tell us about the potential for (and limits on) efforts to manipulate the outcome of the 2024 presidential election?
• “Memo-ries of the Way We Were.” Last week, the New York Times published excerpts from several memoranda prepared by then-President Trump’s White House Counsel addressing questions he appears to have posed regarding his ability to direct the Justice Department to investigate and prosecute individuals. Given Trump’s repeated pledges of vengeance if he were to return to the White House, what do these memoranda tell us about what he might be able to accomplish? And what obstacles may lie in his way, particularly in light of the Supreme Court’s intervening decision on presidential immunity?

For object lessons, Natalie recommended Helen Phillips' new novel “Hum.” Anna stole Scott's object lesson and recommended season two of Rings of Power along with season three of Industry. Scott sang the praises of the best tiny speaker he ever did see (er, hear). And Matt Gluck dug into the sportsball file to urge listeners to begin following the Detroit Tigers' historic playoffs run.

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Steve Coll’s latest book, “The Achilles Trap: Saddam Hussein, the C.I.A., and the Origins of America’s Invasion of Iraq,” seeks to explain why Saddam Hussein would put his regime at risk over weapons of mass destruction (WMD) that didn’t exist. Saddam ultimately lost his regime, and his life, in part because he saw America as an omniscient puppeteer seeking to dominate the Middle East. The United States put thousands of troops in harm’s way in pursuit of a rogue WMD program that turned out to be a fiction. Were these outcomes inevitable?

Lawfare Student Contributor Preston Marquis sat down with Coll, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and author, to explore this question. “The Achilles Trap” is unique in that it relies on Saddam’s secret tapes and archives to unpack twists and turns in the U.S.-Iraq bilateral relationship dating back to the Cold War. The full review is available on the Lawfare website.

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Itsiq Benizri, counsel in WilmerHale’s Brussels office, joins Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to review the shocking and significant resignation of former European Commissioner Thierry Breton. Breton served as the EU’s commissioner for the internal market and played a major role in shaping and enforcing the EU’s digital regulations.

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The explosion of the Space Shuttle Challenger in January 1986 riveted millions of Americans, who watched the horrific event live on television. What they didn’t know then was that the tragedy was largely preventable, a disastrous result of hubris and “magical thinking” as much as flawed engineering. 

Journalist Adam Higginbotham’s new book, “Challenger: A True Story of Heroism and Disaster on the Edge of Space,” is a definitive account of what went wrong, and how NASA failed to learn from its own mistakes. Higginbotham’s story begins with an earlier fatal accident, a fire in the capsule of the Apollo 1 mission, which presaged Challenger’s fate. He then recounts the early days of the space shuttle program. Astonishingly, the very mechanical flaws that led to Challenger’s destruction were known, but the warnings of a few engineers were ignored by more senior officials, who by the time Challenger was set to launch the first teacher into space faced tremendous political and public pressure to make the mission happen, despite obvious risks. 

Higginbotham spoke with Shane Harris about his book, why he wanted to tell the Challenger story, and the future of human spaceflight. 

Books, events, and people discussed on this episode include: 

“Challenger”: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Challenger/Adam-Higginbotham/9781982176617 

“Midnight in Chernobyl”: 

https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Midnight-in-Chernobyl/Adam-Higginbotham/9781508278511 

The Apollo 1 fire: 

https://www.nasa.gov/mission/apollo-1/ 

Roger Boisjoly, rocket engineer: 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2012/02/06/146490064/remembering-roger-boisjoly-he-tried-to-stop-shuttle-challenger-launch 

The crew of Challenger STS-51L: 

https://www.nasa.gov/challenger-sts-51l-accident/ 

The Columbia disaster: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2003/04/09/denial-of-shuttle-image-requests-questioned/80957e7c-92f1-48ae-8272-0dcfbcb57b9d/ 

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Jay Venables of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

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Israel and Hezbollah seem to be headed for a major war. Over the past several weeks, Israel has taken a series of escalatory steps along its northern border, targeting major Hezbollah figures, blowing up pagers used by thousands of Hezbollah operatives, and—most recently—hitting targets all over southern Lebanon associated with Hezbollah. Will it lead to all-out war? Lawfare’s Editor-in-Chief, Benjamin Wittes, sat down with Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson and Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman to talk over the latest developments between Israel and its most capable military foe.

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Lindsay Chervinsky is the Executive Director of the George Washington Library at Mount Vernon. She is also the author of a much celebrated new book on the John Adams presidency that is focused primarily on the national security decision-making of the second president and how it set norms for the conduct of the presidency and its powers with which we still live today. She sat down with Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes to talk about how Adams defended presidential power while it was under assault by both his Jeffersonian foes and the radicals of his own Federalist party.

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From: January 5, 2022: Two years ago this week, the head of the Quds Force of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, Qassem Soleimani, was killed in an American strike. At the time, we convened a group of Brookings and Lawfare experts to talk about the potential benefits and risks of the strike, and two years later, we got the gang back together. Benjamin Wittes sat down with Suzanne Maloney, the head of Foreign Policy program at Brookings and an Iran specialist; Dan Byman, terrorism expert, Middle East scholar and Lawfare’s foreign policy editor; and Scott R. Anderson, Lawfare senior editor and Brookings fellow, to talk about what two years has wrought. They discussed whether the threat of terrorism and escalation in response to the strike was overstated, if U.S. interests were harmed in Iraq as a result of the strike, and what may have kept the Iranian regime from taking stronger action than it eventually took.

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This episode of “Trump's Trials and Tribulations,” was recorded on September 19 in front of a live audience on YouTube and Zoom.Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower and Roger Parloff about Judge McAfee’s order dismissing 3 counts from the Fulton County indictment, what filings we are waiting on in D.C., a recent New York Times story on the Supreme Court’s handling of this term’s Trump cases, and more.

Learn more about Lawfare’s new livestream series about the national security issues under debate during the 2024 presidential election.

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Bob Bauer, Professor of Practice and Distinguished Scholar in Residence at New York University School of Law, and Liza Goitein, Senior Director of Liberty & National Security at the Brennan Center, join Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to review the emergency powers afforded to the president under the National Emergency Act, International Emergency Economic Powers Act, and the Insurrection Act. The trio also inspect ongoing bipartisan efforts to reform emergency powers.

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This week, Scott sat down with Lawfare team members Alan Rozenshtein, Tyler McBrien, and RatSec newbie Anastasiia "Nastya" Lapatina to talk through the week's national security headlines, including:

• “A Shot Across the Rubicon.” Reports indicate that President Biden and his U.K. allies may be on the verge of giving Ukraine approval to use their advanced weapons systems to strike deep into Russia, despite Russian President Vladimir Putin’s threat that doing so would be seen as an act of war. How risky a move is this? 
• “TikTok on the DokKit.” Challengers of the federal law that would ban TikTok had their (first) day in court on Tuesday in oral arguments before the D.C. Circuit. How were their criticisms received by the three-judge panel? And what will the implications of their ruling be for the law, and for TikTok more generally?
• “Dialing M.” Thousands of Lebanese—many of them members of the terrorist group and political movement Hezbollah—were killed or injured this week, when their pagers detonated in what many suspect was a complex terrorism operation by Israel. While some are proclaiming this to be the most accurate counter-terrorism operation in history, others are saying it was indiscriminate in its disregard for possible civilian loss of life. What should we make of this operation? And what impact will it have on the broader Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

For object lessons, Alan endorsed the new Vince Vaughn series Bad Monkey for finally giving the nice guy a shot. Tyler recommended the album "Manning Fireworks" by MJ Lenderman (as recently profiled in The New Yorker). Scott doubled-down on a prior Alan recommendation by encouraging folks to check out sci-fi author Ray Nayler's latest book, "The Tusks of Extinction," and the exceptional collection of short stories he's published online. And Nastya urged listeners to check out Serhii Plohky's new book, "The Russo-Ukrainian War: The Return of History."

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On April 14, 2022, New York Times technology reporters Kate Conger and Ryan Mac woke up to a stunning four-word tweet from Elon Musk’s Twitter account: “I made an offer.” Having long covered the technology and social media beat, they read Musk’s terse post as the “unbelievable but inevitable culmination of two storylines we had pursued for a decade as journalists in Silicon Valley.”

On today’s episode, Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien spoke to Conger and Mac about the cloak-and-dagger corporate dealings that preceded the offer, as well as the drama that unfolded after the ink dried, which they reported in detail in their new book, “Character Limit: How Elon Musk Destroyed Twitter.” They discussed Musk’s predecessors—Jack Dorsey and Parag Agrawal—as well as the platform’s troubled history of content moderation, and why the billionaire wanted it all for himself.  

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Science journalist Sarah Scoles has written extensively about astronomy and the UFO community, including in her 2021 book They Are Already Here. She joined David Priess to discuss how scientists look at ETs, pop cultural takes on first contact with extraterrestrials, the incredible influence of Carl Sagan's Contact, the Allan Hills meteorite, the evolution over time of beliefs about aliens contacting humans, how the Roswell myth emerged, the International UFO Congress, the Mutual UFO Network, UFO investigators, seeing lights around Area 51, SETI salvationalism, extraterrestrial-visitation belief as a religious movement, and more.

Works mentioned in this episode:

The book Contact by Carl Sagan

The movie Contact

The book Making Contact by Sarah Scoles

The book They Are Already Here by Sarah Scoles

The book Countdown by Sarah Scoles

The event "UAP: The Search for Clarity," at the Michael V. Hayden Center for Intelligence, Policy, and International Security, November 15, 2023

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Jay Venables of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

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Jane Bambauer, Professor at Levin College of Law; Ramya Krishnan, Senior Staff Attorney at the Knight First Amendment Institute and a lecturer in law at Columbia Law School; Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota Law School and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, join Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to break down the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals’ hearing in TikTok v. Garland, in which a panel of judges assessed the constitutionality of the TikTok bill.

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For today’s episode, Lawfare senior editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Joel Braunold, Managing Director of the S. Daniel Abraham Center for Middle East Peace, for a deep dive on the current state of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in these last few weeks before what could be a pivotal U.S. election.

They discussed the state of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s governing coalition, recent developments relating to al-Haram al-Sharif and the West Bank, the state of Israel’s external relations with Iran, the United States, and the broader region — and what it all means for the increasingly stagnant conflict in Gaza.

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It's been a rough couple of weeks in Ukraine, as Russian forces have hit major cities with intense bombardments, killing an unusually large number of people. Moreover, the front in Donetsk continues to erode. On the other hand, Ukrainian forces are still in Kursk, occupying about 500 square miles of Russian territory, in an embarrassing show of forces to the Russians, and discussions continue with Western governments about relaxing restrictions on Ukrainian use of long-range missiles inside of Russia proper. There was also a cabinet reshuffle recently. That's all a lot to talk about with Lawfare's Ukraine fellow, Anastasiia Lapatina, and Eric Ciaramella of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, who joined Benjamin Wittes for an update on the war.

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Gharun Lacy has an unusual job. He’s the head of cybersecurity at the State Department, responsible for securing computers and their users in every embassy and consulate and responsible for making sure senior diplomats can communicate securely even in the most forbidding overseas environments. In a wide-ranging conversation, he sat down with Lawfare’s Benjamin Wittes to talk about the challenging work of the Diplomatic Security Service generally and its work in the cyber and technology security area particularly.

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From December 24, 2016: Whatever the President-elect might say on the matter, the question of Russian interference in the presidential election is not going away: calls continue in the Senate for an investigation into the Kremlin's meddling, and the security firm Crowdstrike recently released new information linking one of the two entities responsible for the DNC hack with Russia's military intelligence agency. So how should the United States respond?

In War on the Rocks, Evan Perkoski and Michael Poznansky recently reviewed the possibilities in their piece, "An Eye for an Eye: Deterring Russian Cyber Intrusions." They've also written on this issue before in a previous piece titled "Attribution and Secrecy in Cyber Intrusions." We brought them on the podcast to talk about what deterrence of Russian interference would look like and why it's necessary.

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In a live recording on September 10, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes moderated a panel discussion featuring Lawfare Senior Editor and Brookings Fellow Scott R. Anderson, Co-Founder and Chairman of Silverado Policy Accelerator Dmitri Alperovitch, American Enterprise Institute Senior Fellow Kori Schake, and the Center for Middle East Policy Director and Brookings Senior Fellow Natan Sachs. They discussed Harris’s policy positions on U.S. military and economic aid to Ukraine, the Israel-Gaza War, NATO, and aid to Taiwan. This was the first panel in Lawfare's new livestream series, Lawfare Live: National Security and the 2024 Election. The next panel will be on Sept. 24.

This episode also includes a conversation between Benjamin Wittes and Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien about the national security policies discussed at the Sept. 10 debate between Vice President Harris and former President Trump.

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Helen Toner, Director of Strategy and Foundational Research Grants at Georgetown University's Center for Security and Emerging Technology (CSET), and Zach Arnold, Analytic Lead at Georgetown University's Center for Security and Emerging Technology, join Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to discuss their recent article "AI Regulation's Champions Can Seize Common Ground—or Be Swept Aside." The trio explore the divide between AI "doomers" and "ethicists," and how finding common ground could strengthen efforts to govern AI responsibly.

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In the debut episode of RatSec 2.1, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Kevin Frazier, Eugenia Lostri, and Benjamin Wittes to talk over the week’s big national security news, including:

• “I Have Concepts of a Segment Topic.” On Tuesday, Kamala Harris and Donald Trump faced off in what might end up being the only presidential debate between the two candidates in the 2024 election. What did it tell us about how national security is figuring into this election? 
• “Running Political Interference Interference.” The Justice Department has been very busy these past few weeks, bringing an array of indictments and enforcement actions against various Russian actors and their proxies for spreading misinformation, surreptitiously funding political commentary, and otherwise attempting to interfere in the upcoming 2024 elections. What explains this sudden wave of activity so close to the election? And what threats are still hanging out there?
• “Never Forgot.” Twenty-three years have passed since the unprecedented terrorist attacks of 9/11. In many ways, they redefined the trajectory of U.S. national security policy (and politics) for decades. But today, the United States has shifted focus to a very different set of challenges. What is the legacy of 9/11 more than two decades after the attacks? 

For object lessons, Kevin readied our listeners for depression before recommending Neil Postman’s new book, “Amusing Ourselves to Death.” Ben endorsed the documentary Man on Wire as his favorite movie about 9/11, in part because it has nothing to do with 9/11. Scott urged D.C.-area residents not to sleep on the sublime joys of an outdoor show at Wolf Trap while the weather is still nice. And Eugenia shed her video game label to throw her support behind James Cameron’s latest maritime adventure, the (weirdly mutant-free) sea exploration documentary series OceanXplorers.

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Without new congressional authorization for its post-Oct. 7 operations in the Middle East, the Biden administration has sought to legally justify its military activities in the region based on the president’s constitutional authority and the application of existing statutory authorities to operations against new adversaries. These executive branch arguments are the outgrowth of similar arguments presidential administrations have made over the last few decades, largely related to the requirements in the War Powers Resolution. 

The International Crisis Group recently analyzed these arguments and related issues in a new report, “Bending the Guardrails: U.S. War Powers after 7 October.” Tyler McBrien and Matt Gluck of Lawfare spoke with Brian Finucane, a senior adviser for the U.S. Program at the International Crisis Group and an author of the report, and Matthew Waxman, a professor at Columbia Law School, about the Crisis Group’s report. They discussed the history relevant to the current war powers moment, how the Biden administration has continued to justify its operations without new legislative authority, and the possibility of war powers legal reform moving forward.

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On Aug. 8, the international community concluded its final negotiations at the United Nations over an international cybercrime treaty. The negotiation—a Russian proposal—was intended to harmonize global efforts to combat transnational cybercrime. However, the treaty has come under intense criticism from civil society, human rights advocates, and industry. 

Lawfare Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri sits down with Nick Ashton-Hart, Senior Director for Digital Economy Policy for APCO Worldwide. Ashton-Hart is the former head of delegation to the UN cybercrime treaty negotiations for the Cybersecurity Tech Accord. They discuss the different concerns the treaty raises, how it compares to alternatives for law enforcement cooperation, and what comes next, as the treaty goes to a vote before the UN General Assembly.

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Council on Foreign Relations fellow, Washington Post columnist, and author of military history books Max Boot has just completed a definitive biography of Ronald Reagan, eleven years after starting his research and writing for it. He joined David Priess to talk all about Reagan, including his appeal as a biography subject, his World War II experience, his speech preparation, his turn from New Deal Democrat to right-wing Republican, his path to electoral politics, his management style, his optimism, his pragmatism, his influence on pop culture in the 1980s, his role in ending the Cold War peacefully, his movies, and more.

Works mentioned in this episode:

The book Reagan: His Life and Legend by Max Boot

The movie Kings Row

The movie Bedtime for Bonzo

The movie Knute Rockne All American

The book The Unwinding by George Packer

The book Desert Star by Michael Connelly

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Jay Venables and Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

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For today’s episode, Lawfare General Counsel and Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Andrew Miller, a Senior Fellow at the Center for American Progress who was, until recently, the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Israeli-Palestinian Affairs.

They discussed how the Israeli-Palestinian conflict fit into the Biden administration’s broader foreign policy strategy, how the Oct. 7 massacre and ensuing Gaza war have changed this calculus, and where U.S. policy is likely to go from here.

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Lawfare Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri sits down with John Speed Meyers, head of Chainguard Labs, and Paul Gibert, a research scientist at Chainguard Labs to talk about the distinct challenges of securing open source software (OSS). They discuss what sorts of harms OSS compromises can lead to, how Log4J opened a political window for action on OSS security, and how the software liability debate affects OSS developers.

Meyers and Gibert authored a Lawfare article questioning the conventional wisdom on how software liability could deal with OSS.

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From October 23, 2020: It's been a wild couple of days of disinformation in the electoral context. Intelligence community officials are warning about Russian and Iranian efforts to influence the U.S. presidential election—and claiming that Iran is responsible for sending threatening emails from fake Proud Boys to Democratic voters. What exactly is going on here? To talk through the developments and the questions that linger, Benjamin Wittes sat down with Scott R. Anderson, Susan Hennessey and Quinta Jurecic.

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This episode of “Trump's Trials and Tribulations,” was recorded on September 5 in front of a live audience on YouTube and Zoom.

Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower and Roger Parloff Thursday’s hearing in the D.C. case, Judge Chutkan’s scheduling order on the briefing on the immunity issue, Trump’s efforts to remove his New York hush money and election interference case to federal court, and an interesting amicus brief in the classified documents case.Learn more about Lawfare’s new livestream series about the national security issues under debate during the 2024 presidential election.

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It’s been a busy week in the world of social media and technology platforms. Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg sent an odd letter to the House Judiciary Committee apparently disclaiming some of his company’s past content moderation efforts. Telegram founder Pavel Durov was ceo-pavel-durov-charged.html">arrested in France on a wide range of charges involving an investigation into the misuse of his platform. And Elon Musk is engaged in an ongoing battle with Brazilian courts, which have banned access to Twitter (now X) in the country after Musk refused to abide by court orders. 

These three news stories speak to a common theme: the difficult and uncertain relationship between tech platforms and the governments that regulate them. To make sense of it all, Quinta Jurecic, a Senior Editor at Lawfare, with Matt Perault—the Director of the Center on Technology Policy at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill—and Renée DiResta, author of the new book, “Invisible Rulers: The People Who Turn Lies Into Reality,” and the former technical research manager at the Stanford Internet Observatory.

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This week, Alan, Quinta, and Scott celebrated the third anniversary of Rational Security 2.0 with their Lawfare colleagues Molly Reynolds, Natalie Orpett, and Tyler McBrien, who sat in brutal judgment as the three co-hosts pitched them their hottest takes yet, including:

• Are concerns about judicial ethics overblown?
• Do ethics require that we open the borders and make whoever wants to become one a citizen?
• Should we just treat AI systems like the wild animals they are?

Which takes are undercooked, which too hot, and which are just right? Listen in and decide!

Meanwhile, for object lessons, Scott shared some news about the future of Rational Security moving forward. Listen to the end of the episode to find out what!

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As Robbie Gramer and Amy Mackinnon wrote in Foreign Policy, “If you want to learn more about the U.S. Democratic Party’s foreign-policy vision as the Democratic National Convention (DNC) gets underway this week, you have two options: a webpage that apparently hasn’t been updated in three years or a massive PDF document that is still written as if President Joe Biden, not Vice President Kamala Harris, is the party’s candidate.”

In other words, figuring out what a potential Harris administration foreign policy or Harris Doctrine might look like is no small task. On today’s episode, Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Foreign Policy Columnist Michael Hirsh to try to do just that. They discussed “Preparing for a Less Arrogant America,” Hirsh’s review of the most recent books by Vice President Harris’s top foreign policy advisors, Philip Gordon and Rebecca Lissner, as well as other clues about the shape of a potential Harris administration foreign policy agenda.

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Duncan McLaren, Climate Intervention Fellow in Environmental Law and Policy at UCLA, joins Kevin Frazier, a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to discuss geoengineering in light of a recent keith-solar-geoengineering.html">New York Times article detailing prior efforts to conduct climate interventions, namely the SCoPEx project. This conversation explores the history of geoengineering, different geoengineering techniques, and the opportunity costs associated with further research in the field.

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Walt Hickey is the Deputy Editor for Data and Analysis at Insider News, and the author of You Are What You Watch: How Movies and TV Affect Everything. His book explores the power of entertainment to change our beliefs, how we see ourselves, and how nations gain power.He joined Eugenia Lostri, Lawfare's Fellow in Technology Policy and Law, to talk about how we use media to express our societal apprehensions, the ways in which the military, NASA and the CIA collaborate with Hollywood, and the soft power of media productions.

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Isabelle Kerby-McGowan and Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

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Associate Professor at the University of Minnesota Law School and Lawfare Senior Editor Alan Rozenshtein sits down with Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor of Law at St. Thomas University College of Law, Co-Director of the Center for Law and AI Risk, and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare. They discuss a new paper that Kevin has published as part of Lawfare’s ongoing Digital Social Contract paper series titled “Prioritizing International AI Research, Not Regulations.”

Frazier sheds light on the current state of AI regulation, noting that it's still in its early stages and is often under-theorized and under-enforced. He underscores the need for more targeted research to better understand the specific risks associated with AI models. Drawing parallels to risk research in the automobile industry, Frazier also explores the potential role of international institutions in consolidating expertise and establishing legitimacy in AI risk research and regulation.

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From October 28, 2022: There's been a lot of discussion about whether Donald Trump should be indicted. Lately, that discussion has focused on the documents the FBI seized from Mar-a-lago or the Jan. 6 committee's revelations about his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. But what about his speech on the ellipse on Jan. 6 when he told a crowd of thousands to “fight like hell,” and they went on to attack the Capitol? Isn't that incitement?

Lawfare executive editor Natalie Orpett sat down with Alan Rozenshtein, a senior editor at Lawfare and an associate professor at the University of Minnesota Law School, and Jed Shugerman, a professor at Fordham Law School. Alan and Jed explained the complicated First Amendment jurisprudence protecting political speech, even when it leads to violence, and why they believe that given everything we know now, Trump may in fact be criminally liable. They also reference Alan and Jed’s law review article in Constitutional Commentary, “January 6, Ambiguously Inciting Speech, and the Overt-Acts Solution.”

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From October 30, 2020: Laura Rosenberger is the director of the Alliance for Securing Democracy and a senior fellow at the German Marshall Fund of the United States. She was foreign policy advisor for the Hillary Clinton campaign four years ago, where she had to respond to Russian information operations against the campaign in real time. She has been working on combating foreign interference in U.S. domestic politics ever since, and she is the author of two recent significant articles—one in Foreign Affairs and one on Lawfare—both on the subject of foreign influence operations and interference in U.S. politics. She joined Benjamin Wittes to discuss the strategic purpose of these operations, whether we have to fear more operations during or after the election, and if U.S. voters should have confidence in their system.

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From January 8, 2021: The storming of the Capitol on Wednesday was a catastrophic failure of protective law enforcement, as rioters overran Capitol Police barricades and gained access to a building that a lot of police were supposed to be protecting. How did it happen? Who screwed up? And what can be done about it? Benjamin Wittes sat down with Fred Burton, the executive director of the Center for Protective Intelligence at Ontic and a former protective officer; Garrett Graff, a journalist who covers federal law enforcement and who wrote a book about continuity in government; and Lawfare's executive editor Susan Hennessey. They talked about how bad the failure was on the part of the Capitol Police, who is responsible for it, what can be done now to bring the perpetrators to justice and how we should think about changing security protocols on Capitol Hill going forward.

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Elliot Jones, a Senior Researcher at the Ada Lovelace Institute, joins Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to discuss a report he co-authored on the current state of efforts to test AI systems. The pair break down why evaluations, audits, and related assessments have become a key part of AI regulation. They also analyze why it may take some time for those assessments to be as robust as hoped. 

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This week, Quinta and Scott were joined by Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler "Spicy Tyler" McBrien to talk through the week's big national security news stories, including:

• “Jack Smith Takes a Mulligan on his Big Swing.” A grand jury has re-indicted former President Trump for his actions relating to the Jan. 6 insurrection, after Special Counsel Jack Smith trimmed and massaged the allegations to accommodate the Supreme Court’s recent ruling on presidential immunity. How different is this indictment? What are the next steps in the trial? And will these new allegations have better odds of surviving Supreme Court review?
• “An Eye for an Eye Leaves the Whole World in a Bind.” This past week, Israel and Hezbollah traded another vicious round of attacks along Israel’s shared northern border with Lebanon, as part of the long-awaited response to Israel’s targeted killing of Hezbollah leaders a month ago. Now the region is waiting with bated breath to see whether this will be the end of it or the start of a larger war. How significant is the risk of escalation? And what will this mean for, among other things, ongoing ceasefire negotiations in relation to Gaza?
• “Send Me a Kiss by Wire.” Pavel Durov, the CEO of the Russia-based encrypted messaging platform Telegram—which, in addition to being the platform of choice in much of the world, has become a popular choice among criminals and terrorist groups due to its lack of content moderation—was arrested earlier this week in Paris, and is under questioning in relation to possible criminal charges arising from the criminal use of Telegram. What is motivating this move by French authorities? 

For object lessons, Quinta recommended "When a Department Self-Destructs," Jennifer Schoenefeld's dramatic account of the in-fighting within Pomona College's English department. Scott threw his endorsement in (alongside the Academy's) for the beautifully mumblecore-ish film "Past Lives." And Tyler urged listeners to check out Tanya Gold's upsetting account of the commercialization of the Holocaust, tellingly entitled "My Auschwitz Vacation."

Note: Our discussion of Pavel Durov's arrest in France predated his ceo-pavel-durov-charged.html">indictment by French authorities.

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This episode of “Trump's Trials and Tribulations,” was recorded on August 28 in front of a live audience on YouTube and Zoom.

Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes spoke to Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Quinta Jurecic, and Roger Parloff about Special Counsel Jack Smith’s superseding indictment against former President Trump in the Jan. 6 prosecution, how it differs from the original indictment, and more.

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On today’s episode, Vanda Felbab-Brown, Director of the Initiative on Nonstate Armed Actors, Co-Director of the Africa Security Initiative, and Senior Fellow in Foreign Policy at the Brookings Institution joins Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to help make sense of the recent skirmishes in northern Mali between the junta, separatist groups, Islamists, and Russian mercenaries. 

They discuss what the recent ambush in Mali portends for Russian and Russian-aligned mercenaries' activities in Africa and look back at how Moscow has restructured and reframed the Wagner Group in the year since the death of its former head, Yevgeny Prigozhin.

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For more than 40 years, Peter Clement has studied Russian political culture and leaders--serving for most of that time as an analyst, manager, and executive at the CIA before his retirement in 2018. He has PhD in Russian history, teaches at Columbia University, and has thought long and hard about what makes Vladimir Putin tick.

He joined David Priess to discuss his road to studying Russia as a career, the art of Kremlinology, Putin's rise, Putin's feelings about Ukraine across the decades, the images of himself Putin projects to the West and within Russia, why FDR would be great to have around right now, and more.

Works mentioned in this episode:

The book First Person by Vladimir Putin

The essay "On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians" by Vladimir Putin 

The article "Putin's Risk Spiral," Foreign Affairs (October 26, 2022), by Peter Clement

The book Present at the Creation by Dean Acheson

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

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On today’s episode, Sherri Goodman, the Secretary General of the International Military Council on Climate & Security and the first Deputy Undersecretary of Defense (Environmental Security) joins Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to talk about Sherri’s new book, “Threat Multiplier: Climate, Military Leadership, and the Fight for Global Security.”

They discuss Sherri’s career in climate security, beginning at the Senate Armed Services Committee before “climate security” entered the lexicon. From there, they trace Sherri’s career educating a generation of military leaders about the nexus between climate change and national security and coining the phrase “threat multiplier,” helping to usher in a paradigm shift at the Pentagon. Sherri addresses skeptics wary of a perceived tradeoff between military readiness and greening the military, as well as others who warn against “securitizing” climate change. Finally, they look ahead, as Sherri lays out her four main pillars of climate action (mitigation and adaptation) and institutional reform (awareness and alliance building).

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Lawfare Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri sits down with Esteban Carisimo, a Postdoctoral Researcher at Northwestern University to talk about the digital repression in Venezuela after the recent elections. Carisimo co-authored a recent sigcomm-venezuela.pdf">report on the effects of the Venezuelan crisis on internet infrastructure. They discuss how internet censorship impacts the protests, how Venezuela's infrastructure compares to other countries in the region, and what the path to recovery looks like.

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From April 26, 2023: If someone lies about you, you can usually sue them for defamation. But what if that someone is ChatGPT? Already in Australia, the mayor of a town outside Melbourne has threatened to sue OpenAI because ChatGPT falsely named him a guilty party in a bribery scandal. Could that happen in America? Does our libel law allow that? What does it even mean for a large language model to act with "malice"? Does the First Amendment put any limits on the ability to hold these models, and the companies that make them, accountable for false statements they make? And what's the best way to deal with this problem: private lawsuits or government regulation?

On this episode of Arbiters of Truth, our series on the information ecosystem, Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota and Senior Editor at Lawfare, discussed these questions with First Amendment expert Eugene Volokh, Professor of Law at UCLA and the author of a draft paper entitled "Large Libel Models.”

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From November 1, 2022: In recent weeks, the Biden administration has released a trio of long-awaited strategy documents, including the Harris-Administrations-National-Security-Strategy-10.2022.pdf">National Security Strategy, the National Defense Strategy, and the STRATEGY-AND-POLICY-NPR-FACTSHEET.PDF">Nuclear Posture Review. But how should we read these documents, and what do they actually tell us about how the Biden administration intends to approach the world?

To answer these questions, Lawfare senior editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Richard Fontaine, chief executive officer of the Center for a New American Security, who is himself also a former National Security Council official and senior congressional adviser. They discussed the role these strategy documents play in U.S. foreign policy, what we can learn from them, and what they say about the state of the world and the United States’ role in it.

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Richard Albert, William Stamps Farish Professor in Law, Professor of Government, and Director of Constitutional Studies at the University of Texas at Austin, joins Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to conduct a comparative analysis of what helps constitutions withstand political pressures. Richard’s extensive study of different means to amend constitutions shapes their conversation about whether the U.S. Constitution has become too rigid.

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This week, Alan and Quinta sat down with Molly Reynolds and Kevin Frazier to talk about the week’s big developments, including:

• “It can always get worse…” Although President Biden’s replacement by Vice President Kamala Harris at the top of the Democratic ticket has reenergized the Democrats’ bid to retain the White House, the race is still a tossup, and former President Trump could well reenter the White House in 2025. Have we successfully “Trump-proofed” the government in anticipation? 
• “Run DNC.” The Democratic National Convention is taking place this week in Chicago, and it’s a striking contrast to last month’s Republican convention. That event was largely a celebration of one person, Donald Trump. By contrast, the DNC is as much about the party as it is about its nominee, Kamala Harris. What does it say about the relative strengths of America’s two parties and what that means for the future of American democracy?
• “Making the Three Laws of Robotics Actual Laws?” California’s SB 1047, the controversial AI safety law, is set to pass the legislature this month and head to Governor Gavin Newsom’s desk for his signature or veto. Many in the AI industry, as well as even some members of California’s own congressional delegation, oppose the bill on the grounds that it will harm innovation. Others, on the other side, worry that the bill doesn’t do enough to protect against AI harms. What’s actually in the bill, and what would its passage mean for the future of AI?

For object lessons, Alan introduced us to his favorite flower. Kevin recommended the classic John Steinbeck novel “East of Eden,” while Quinta has been listening to a podcast about sex testing in elite track and field. And fresh off the appearance by Golden State Warriors coach Steve Kerr at the DNC, Molly dusted off this kerr-golden-state-warriors.html">2016 NYT Magazine profile of Kerr for those interested.

Additional Links:

• Quinta’s Atlantic article on the failure to Trump-proof the government
• Molly and Quinta’s article on the limitations of the Jan. 6 Committee as a model for future investigative efforts

Promotion: Use code RATIONALSECURITY at the link here to get an exclusive 60% off an annual Incogni plan: https://incogni.com/rationalsecurity.

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Anastasiia Lapatina is a Kyiv-based Ukraine Fellow at Lawfare. Leopoldo Lopez is a Venezuelan opposition leader living in exile in Madrid, after escaping prison for leading protests against Nicolás Maduro in 2014.

Lapatina and Lopez discuss the results of Venezuela’s recent presidential election, ties between Venezuela’s autocrat Nicolás Maduro and other dictatorships, and the path forward for Venezuela after the rigged election.

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