Less than $2. That’s how much the Santa Ana Unified school district can afford to spend on one student’s lunch each day. The $14 billion budget of the National School Lunch program stretches thin, and school nutrition workers are often the target of kids’ complaints. Reporter Jessica Terrell explores the cultural figure of “the lunch lady,” and how students and workers lose when bureaucrats focus on cost over care.

This episode includes an annotated transcript with links to sources used in the reporting. This podcast was created by editors at The Counter and produced by LWC Studios. It is made possible by grants from the W.K. Kellogg Foundation and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.  

When Katy was working in the Bay Area in her early 20s, she would have given the Michelin Guide 3 stars, because those were the restaurants she felt like she had to work to learn about the most innovative and interesting food. How has that changed?

In this last episode of our fourth season, Katy and Rachel dig into the history, the data, and the money behind the Michelin Guide in the U.S. with help from Krishnendu Ray (professor at NYU) and Beth Forrest (professor at the CIA). By the end of the research, Katy and Rachel had very different ratings for the Guide than what their 24-year-old selves would have given it. What about you?

Guests:

Beth Forrest

Her faculty bio and books

Krishnendu Ray

His book  | His faculty bio

Articles mentioned and other resources:

• Florida’s Tourism Board Will Pay Michelin $150,000 to Rate the State’s Restaurants
• Why California Paid Michelin Guide $600,000 to Cover Los Angeles Again
• The Inspection Process
• scatters-stars-on-new-york.html">Michelin Scatters Stars on New York (2005)
• anand.html">The Fed-Up Chef
• The Untold Truth Of The Michelin Guide
• The High Price of a Michelin Guide: South Korea, Singapore, and Thailand have spent millions to get their own Red guides
• The History of the Michelin Guide
• How Restaurants Get MIchelin Stars: A Brief History of the Michelin Guide
• The Secret Life of an Anonymous Michelin Restaurant Inspector
• Confessions of a Michelin Inspector

Telly Justice and Mike Sheats worked together at Five & Ten in Athens Ga., where Justice worked her way up to chef de cuisine and Sheats was an AM chef. Once they started their own projects, the chefs knew that the strict brigade system, codified by Georges-Auguste Escoffier more than a hundred years ago, wouldn’t be the right fit for their businesses. “In the kitchens that Mike and I came up in, there was not much room for challenging anything,” said Justice. For both Justice and Sheats, the rigidity of the structure left no room for mistakes and little room for being themselves. 

Telly is now chef/co-owner of HAGS, a small tasting menu restaurant in New York City “by Queer people for all people,” and Mike, with his wife Shyretha, runs The Plate Sale, a pop-up inspired by community events like plate sales, barbecues, and fish fries in his hometown of Athens. 

This conversation was recorded as a chef-to-chef conversation for the Plate Magazine print edition. You can read an edited version of this conversation (and see some awesome pictures!) in their magazine here. But a less edited version of the conversation is here for your listening pleasure. 

Guests: 

Telly Justice

HAGS  | HAGS Instagram

Press: 

• service-gender.html">When ‘Sir’ and ‘Ma’am’ Miss the Mark: Restaurants Rethink Gender’s Role in Service
• HAGS Will Be Queer First, and a Restaurant Second
• A First Look at HAGS, New York’s Revolutionary New Queer Fine Dining

Mike Sheats

The Plate Sale  |  The Crowdfunding Campaign  |  Instagram  |  Email 

Press: 

• Honoring the History of the Plate Sale
• An inside look at The Plate Sale
• Meet Shyretha and Michael Sheats: Founders of The Plate Sale

Resources:

• Understanding Anti-Intellectualism in the U.S. by Studio ATAO
• Anti-Intellectualism int he Restaurant Industry: Why an equitable future requires overhauling the brigade system
• An Investigation in Culinary Life and Professional Identity in Practice during Internship 
• Escoffier Kitchen Brigade System Then and Now
• “OUI, CHEF!” A Sociohistorical Analysis of Organizational Culture in the American Fine Dining Kitchen Brigade and its Effects on Health from 1903 to 2019
• Why is anti-intellectualism so popular in kitchens?

The United States is the top producer of corn in the world, yet only 40% of that corn is destined for someone’s plate. The industrialization of corn in the Americas is a story of colonization, appropriation, and capitalism. But there are also stories of people finding ways to celebrate biodiversity, culture, and history through great corn products. 

In this episode, we talk with Pedro Ferbel-Azcarate and Wendy Downing, 2 of 3 co-owners of Three Sisters Nixtamal, an organic and traditional masa maker. We also talk with Angel Medina, co-owner of Repùblica and Co, a Mexican-forward restaurant group. 

Guests: 

Pedro Ferbel-Azcarate & Wendy Downing

Three Sisters  |  Instagram

Angel Medina

Repùblica & Co  |  Instagram  

Resources: 

To read more about what we talked about in this episode: 

• Keepers of the Corn: Despite economic pressures, Oaxaca remains a stronghold of Mexico’s wondrous criollo, or native, corn varieties
• How Mexico’s iconic flatbread went industrial and lost its flavor
• The Tortilla Cartel
• United in Tradition as Peoples of the Corn
• The history of the world according to corn - TEDTalk by Chris A. Kniesly
• Corn: Origin, History, Technology, and Production
• How Indigenous Seed Savers Safeguard Agricultural and Spiritual Tradition

Welcome to the Copper & Heat audio tasting menu. This 6-course experience takes you through dishes from pivotal points in the history of the modern tasting menu. 

Vote for us in the first inaugural Signal Awards! We were nominated for a Signal Award in the Food & drink category, and we need your help! Vote for us for the Listener’s Choice Award at the link above. 

Guests:

Beth Forrest

Her faculty bio and books

Sam Yamashita

His piece on the Japanese Turn  |  His books  | His faculty bio

Krishnendu Ray

His book  | His faculty bio

The courses:

1. The restaurant by Mathurin Roze de Chantoiseau
2. Hassun from Hyotei in Kyoto
3. paul-bocuse.html">Rouge en ècaille de pomme de terre by Paul Bocuse
4. 4ffe-11ed-8f13-337c4c8855d6.html">Sukiyaki
5. Toro and caviar by Masa Takayama
6. Nixtamalized butternut squash en tacha from Lenga Madre in New Orleans

The articles mentioned in this episode: 

• gustibus-tasting-menu-a-good-idea-sours.html?searchResultPosition=32">'Tasting’' Menu: A Good Idea Sours by Mimi Sheraton in the New York Times
• menus-can-be-too-much-of-a-good-thing.html">Nibbled to Death: Tasting Menus Can Be Too Much of a Good Thing by Pete Wells in the New York Times
• wave-tasting-menus-fine-dining.html">The New Generation of Tasting Menus Won’t Test Your Patience (or Your Wallet) by Brett Anderson in the New York Times

More resources:

• The Japanese Origins of Modern Fine Dining by Meghan McCarron (2017)
• The Never-Ending Pivot: Amid the Omicron Surge, Restaurants Have Turned to Tasting Menus by Jeremy Repanich (2022)
• The death of the tasting menu by George Reynolds (2022)
• The Backlash Against the 'Tyranny' of Tasting Menus by Amy McKeever (2013)
• notsonew-nouvelle-cuisine-the-notsoverynew-nouvelle-cuisine.html?mcubz=1">The Not-So-New Nouvelle Cuisine by Mimi Sheraton (1979)
• Celebrating the Ringmaster of the Restaurant Circus by Florence Fabricant (2014)
• How America’s First 3 Star Michelin Sushi Chef Serves His Fish on Eater’s YouTube (2015)

Is culinary school worth the investment in terms of money and time? 

This is a question posed by hundreds of thousands of people as they enter the culinary field. Is it worth spending the money to go to culinary school when I can just work my way up in the industry? 

Culinary schools have long been more of a trade school to train potential cooks in the culinary field. However, in the ‘90s, the Culinary Institute of America put in a concerted effort to professionalize the career of chef, and therefore give more value to their school, by educating their students on more than just technical skills. 

But as the systemic and cultural pitfalls of the restaurant industry have become more apparent in recent years, people are leaving the industry in droves, and even fewer are looking to enter. So as more culinary schools close their doors, how do educational institutions answer the question - is culinary school worth it?

Guests: 

Krishnendu Ray

His book  | His faculty bio

Beth Forrest

Her faculty bio

Hanalei Souza

Her website  |  Instagram  |  the-book.html">Her book

Annika Altura

Instagram 

Kiah Fuller

Her website  |  Instagram 

Resources: 

To read more about what we talked about in this episode: 

• Pros & Cons & Thoughts: Is Going to Culinary School Worth It?
• college-culinary-school.html">A Fast, Frugal Track to a Cook’s Career? Community College
• Culinary school enrollment drops even as need soars at restaurants
• Does Biden’s Student Loan Forgiveness Plan Extend to Culinary School Students?
• Three Charts That Show Why Culinary School Is Not Worth It
• Is Culinary School Still Worth It? Four Chefs Weigh In
• Culinary School: The Pros and Cons of Culinary Education

Meat in the U.S. has had a complicated history which in recent years has spurred on the resurgence of interest in whole animal butchery and neighborhood butcher shops. But even as meat prices have risen, how have the people working behind the counter been affected?

In this episode, we speak with 2 butchers who have had very different careers within the world of butchery. There’s Edgar (he/him), whose career includes 20 years at Texas Roadhouse and 5 at Belcampo Meat Co. Then there’s HJ (they/them), who has worked all over the country including Blue Hill at Stone Barns, The Meat Hook in Brooklyn, and now co-owns Pasture PDX, a small craft butcher shop, in Portland, OR with their business partner Kei.

Guests: 

HJ Schaible (they/them)

Their website  |  Instagram

Edgar Cisneros (he/him)

Instagram 

Resources: 

To read more about what we talked about in this episode: 

• The price of plenty: how beef changed America
• Whole Animal Butchery: The Growth, the Problems, and the Future
• Chef’s Fable: Blue Hill at Stone Barns’ alluring story — that a fine dining restaurant could be a model for changing the world — seduced diners, would-be employees, and thought leaders alike. But former employees say that narrative often obscured a more complicated reality.
• After sourcing scandal, Belcampo Meat Co. abruptly closes stores, restaurants
• sustainable-meat-darling-Belcampo-suddenly-16545705.php">Former sustainable meat darling Belcampo suddenly shuts down all operations: The news follows a summer controversy over mislabeling meats
• The Instagram thread of the employee who called Belcampo out

This episode is supported by BentoBox and Clover. To learn more about their all-in-one platform for websites, online ordering, world-class point-of-sale, and payment solutions, check out getbento.com/better.

As cooks and others from the restaurant industry leave traditional jobs to strike out on their own, what does it mean for the craft of cooking?

Food is an inherently sensual thing. Sure, it needs to look visually appealing, but that doesn't necessarily say that you are good at the craft of cooking. Does it taste good? Does it smell good? As social media becomes increasingly essential to growing a food business, how does that affect the people working in food every day and how they approach their craft?

In this episode, we're talking to 3 different people who work in food and the different ways they use social media – and how social media has affected their identities as food professionals.

Guests: 

Chris Martin (she/her)

Her website  |  Instagram  |  Reddit

Hanalei Souza (she/her)

Her website  |  Instagram  |  the-book.html">Her book

Devan Rajkumar. (he/him)

His website  |  Instagram  |  TikTok  |  YouTube

Resources: 

To read more about what we talked about in this episode: 

• $10,000 for one Instagram post? How food influencers can make or break restaurants
• How to Be Food Famous
• ​​How to tell the difference between a journalist and a food influencer
• Food Instagram: Identity, Influence & Negotiation by Emily J.H. Contois & Zenia Kish

The video clips in this episode come from:

• How Instagram can make or break a restaurant
• Restaurant Owner Slams Influencers Asking For Free Stuff In A Pandemic
• TikTok opening ghost kitchens 
• How Taking Pictures of Food Can Be a Full-Time Job — The Business of Going Viral Part 2/4

This episode is supported by BentoBox and Clover. To learn more about their all-in-one platform for websites, online ordering, world-class point-of-sale, and payment solutions, check out getbento.com/better

In this re-release of the first episode of our second season, we’re going to Boise, Idaho to talk with the team at Kin Restaurant. In a small city that’s growing and changing rapidly, what does a small, fine-dining, tasting menu restaurant do to not only educate diners on the value of good food but also educate their employees about the value of themselves as restaurant workers?

You can find KIN: 

On their website

On Instagram

This episode is supported by BentoBox and Clover. To learn more about their all-in-one platform for websites, online ordering, world-class point-of-sale, and payment solutions, check out 

getbento.com/better

.

How have chefs and the restaurant industry contributed to the near-extinction of abalone, the prized mollusk often associated with fine dining?

Indigenous tribes up and down the coast of what is today California have been eating abalone for thousands of years. In the 20th and 21st centuries, the influx of non-native folks led to the hunting, fetishization, and overconsumption of abalone. From San Francisco bohemians who were inspired by its beauty to Japanese fishermen making a business out of exporting it back home, the rapid decline of the abalone population led to the government instituting a ban on abalone fishing. In this episode, we explore the various forces that led to the near-extinction of abalone and how the government ban has criminalized the millennia-old culinary customs of indigenous people like Hillary Renick, a Pomo-Paiute woman who has risked jail time and fines in order to keep those food traditions alive.

TW/CW - we discuss the trauma associated with the colonization of the United States and topics such as genocide and gun violence. 

Guests: 

Ann Vileisis (she/her)

Her website  |  Buy the book

Hillary Renick (she/her)

About Hilary  |  The High Country News Article  |  TEDxArchivorium with Hillary

Doug Bush. (he/him)

Cultured Abalone Instagram  |  Buy Cultured Abalone 

Resources: 

To read more about what we talked about in this episode: 

• Native Food Profiles/Oral Histories
• Abalone Tales: Collaborative Explorations of Sovereignty and Identity in Native California
• History: Hidden Treaty of Temecula robbed Indigenous people of their lands
• Genocide and the Indians of California, 1769-1873
• The Gold Rush Impact on Native Tribes
• California’s Little-Known Genocide
• Traditional Foods and Indigenous Solidarity by Hillary Renick
• xpm-1988-04-20-fi-1286-story.html">Abalone : It takes two years to grow one small mollusk, but biologists are trying to make all that time pay off with a crop that will be a big hit with gourmets
• California Is Destroying Its Cultural Heritage as Abalone Verges on Extinction
• xpm-1999-jul-15-mn-56227-story.html">Troubled Waters for Abalone Farms Proposal
• California-s-abalone-country-the-hunt-9170983.php">In California’s abalone country, the hunt continues to evolve
• How Chinese Immigrants Built—and Lost—a Shellfish Industry
• The Abalone King of Monterey: "pop" Ernest Doelter, Pioneering Japanese Fishermen & the Culinary Classic That Saved an Industry
• Abalone, That Delicious Rarity, Being Farmed in Bay Area
• s-luster-grows-Eco-friendly-aquaculture-2614648.php#photo-2101370">Abalone's luster grows / Eco-friendly aquaculture lures endangered mollusk back onto Bay Area menus
• Abalone grows as a cash crop

The video clips in this episode come from: 

• San Francisco Panama Pacific International Exposition 1915
• 100 Story Project - Roy Hattori: The Japanese Internment
• 100 Story Project - Roy Hattori: Diving for Abalone
• How Chef Daniel Boulud Makes His Signature Abalone Dish at Two-Michelin-Starred Daniel 
• How a Master Chef Built One of the Country's Best Restaurants In Elk, California
• How a Master Chef Runs the Only Two Michelin-Starred Mexican Restaurant in America
• @highspeeddining at Minibar by José Andrés
• Astounding Eats Get Better at Aubergine Restaurant

This episode is supported by BentoBox and Clover. To learn more about their all-in-one platform for websites, online ordering, world-class point-of-sale, and payment solutions, check out getbento.com/better