Hello there this is Krista with Episode #169 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. Why does your dog lick you? Well, dogs lick your skin because they like the salty taste of you, or simply as a sign of affection. And according to experts, the process of licking releases feel good endorphins that make your dog happy and feel relaxed. So I say, bring on the licks! Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Veterinarian Dr. Karen Shaw Becker believes biologically appropriate food and an animal's immediate environment are the most important factors in determining health, vitality, and lifespan. She has spent her career as a small animal clinician, empowering animal guardians to make intentional lifestyle decisions to enhance the wellbeing of their animals.  Hello, dog lovers. Why am I so giddy today? Well, it's because I have THE Dr. Karen Shaw Becker on the show with us. And she's going to talk about why stress is one of the hardest lifestyle challenges for modern dogs. Dr. Becker, I know I've been hounding you now and your team for about three years to be on this pawdcast. So thank you, for appeasing me. Many of those listening probably know who you are already, maybe because I don't know you're the most followed veterinarian in the world. But why don't you introduce yourself? And why don't you also share, when in your career, the light bulb came on for you to practice integrative medicine. Well, thank you Krista for hosting me and I appreciate your incredible patience. While we figure out a time of day for this podcast, you've been very kindly patient, and I'm just excited to be here. So thank you. And I was one of the rare people I believe in the health and wellness space that I played… Well, I didn't have to go through my own physical health crisis, or lose a dog to a health crisis or to a preventable health crisis. Thank goodness, I feel pretty blessed that I came out of a very proactive, healthy home. My entire family, I come from a long line of incredibly wise women that made it their focused intention to create health in their families. So my grandma Shaw, my Mama’s Mama was the one who taught me how to grow wheat grass and sprouts when I was 12. She was sprouting., you know when I was 12. So I learned actually how to grow my first batch of sprouts from my grandma Shaw. And I just come from a long line of people who have used food as medicine and have taken on a more common sense approach to health and wellness. And I'm incredibly thankful for that because I went to veterinary school knowing I would be a proactive veterinarian, I went to veterinary school knowing that my toolbox was not going to be complete that I went to veterinary school saying thank you that I have triage skills, and I have surgical skills for crisis. And when it comes to infectious diseases, these are the things that I learned in veterinary school how to fix acute trauma, like a hit by car and how to manage infectious infectious disease. I knew going into vet school that I would not learn anything about how to prevent degenerative disease from occurring, how to prevent lifestyle diseases, I knew that I was going to be sadly deficient in how to keep the body well. So I feel thankful that I was aware of that deficit. And so I took the classes, courses and certs and certificates I needed either during veterinary school or I can I'm a professional student. So I'm still in classes. Right now I'm taking a really a two year long genetics class to learn about the genetic variants that affect dogs and cats that allow us to be able to make changes before those genetic snips are expressed. So I'm always learning something. But I'm just really thankful that I came from a home that believes in wellness. So it was not something I had to go through out of trauma. It was It has been a lifestyle for me since the day I was born, thankfully. Good for you. Well, this topic, I don't know how we're going to cover it in 30 minutes, because there's a lot to talk about. But we know that we as humans are more stressed than ever before. It's just a fact. We also know that our stress is felt through our dogs. So if we are in constant fight or flight, our cortisol is always on and up. Our dogs most likely are going to have bad adrenals as well as a result is that right? How Our Stress Affects our Dogs It's pretty clear cut. And Dr. Biagio D’Aniello from Italy was the scientist that we interviewed that kind of broke that news. He was the guy that found out that dogs had chemo signals that they could smell for fear, rage, stress, happiness/joy within one second of our human emotions. He was the guy that determined that dogs not just identify those emotions, but they themselves can feel them as well. So you are spot on. Whatever the barometer of our emotional state, or our home's emotional state that will become our dog's emotional state, you're spot on. And I think I don't know if it was the same study, but the one in Science Daily that said, 93.75% of the changes in our stress, dogs could detect just through a change in our breath and our sweat. That's how spot on they are in picking it out. How spot on they are. And you know that that does two things for me. I stop for a split second. And I'm in awe. Because I mean, we all know dogs are amazing. Of course. That's why you have you know, you're doing this podcast. That's why people are listening. And that's why I'm a veterinarian. I mean, dogs are just awesome. But then you hear things like that. And first I stopped and I'm like, That is so cool. But then if you're like me, you feel this weight, you feel this weight of Okay. Our animals are basically trapped in our homes. And our homes can be chemically toxic, emotionally toxic, physiologically toxic. It's all these, you know that our homes are the places where our dogs primarily reside. And so, oh my goodness, not only when I heard about this study I was compelled enough to get on a plane and go visit the researcher. When you watch these dogs work in the lab. And when they have these hidden samples, it's amazing. They'll allow a dog to smell a sweat sample from fear. And immediately the dog is able to smell it and instantaneously adapt. But now they're measuring that dog's stress hormones. And instantly the dog secretes high levels of stress hormones, because if you think about it, that evolutionarily makes sense that dogs like okay, if mom or dad or are releasing through chemo signals, stress response, that's my cue that something in the environment may not be safe for me. So they're going to mimic that same stress response. And over time, you can get into a pretty toxic situation where you have ongoing levels of stress hormones and fight or flight ends up in a burnout situation. It's bad for the whole family. So identifying stressors are one of the things we can do preemptively to try and mitigate or minimize our dog's risk in that environment. And is that what is considered the overactive sympathetic nervous system? When they’re in that state? Exactly. Yes, yep. And so there is, of course, fight or flight, there's also freeze, which a lot of animals, they just shut down. But you know, it's interesting Krista, when we were outlining how to encompass this, how are we going to lay out for for dog owners, this strategy that they could easily remember and thinking about all the moving parts that it takes to intentionally create a longer life but also a healthier, happier dog by us making better decisions? Like how do we lay that out in the book, we came up with this D O G S strategy. So D is for Diet and Nutrition. And your listeners already know about that. Food is a thing that we do every day that either heals or harms our dogs. And that's not rocket science. That just is what it is. So making good nutritional decisions to the best of your ability, with the money you have. And then figuring out creative, easy, simple hacks to fill in with fresh foods is a really common sense thing that we all should be doing. So that one's kind of a gimme. The O is for Optimal Movement, which is exercise. And it's no there. Again, it's not a shocker to anyone that dogs need daily movement, all dogs, even the tiniest of dogs are wired as athletes and they need a lot of movement, not just for mental, emotional, and physical well being, but they just need to be able to move their bodies to, you know, maintain lean muscle mass. And the lack of exercise is a big stressor in that it predisposes dogs to having torn ACLs. And they develop more degenerative joint disease, or if they're constantly pulling on their neck, that's a physical stressor, that stressor that can cause disc disease in the neck. So there are these physical stressors that totally impact the dog's ability to be physically well, the G stands for Genetic Predispositions. And when I went to vet school 25 years ago, we were taught that a dog’s genetics are just steps. But what I learned through writing this book Is that actually dogs and humans, we all have this set of genetic variants that can actually be up or downregulated through this brand new science and research of epigenetics. So our decisions on a day to day basis when it comes to the chemicals our dogs are exposed to the foods that they eat, that impacts actually genetic expression. So that's really good to know. But you are right, the stress component, not only did I underestimate how stress impacts dogs, but I was really taken aback that every single longevity researcher and scientist that we talked to, every single one of them said, when when we asked them, Hey, what are you if you could give us one summarizing statement about if you were going to intentionally create an animal that has less degenerative disease and lives its maximum lifespan? What's your take home two cents, you got to have it written down, and every single scientist talked about stress. So it was something that I think overall, I think veterinarians underestimate the role of stress in when it comes to health and well being. I think that pet parents maybe aren't identifying all the stressors. So that was a big area of focus in the book, because I think all of us have underestimated just how impactful stress affects our dogs. And in all of the different ways that stress can impact our dogs. Right. Well, in case anybody listening doesn't know what book Dr. Becker is actually talking about. It is The Forever dog, which should be the Bible for anybody that wants to treat their dog's health in a natural way. And be preventative. And that's what you're talking about. So again, that's the Forever dog. And Dr. Karen just talked about the D. O. G. S. strategy. So I love that. But we're gonna take a break here in a minute. But before we do that, could you just talk about some basic environmental factors that are going on, that are causing stress in our dogs, and just a spoiler alert… Part two, the second half of this interview is going to talk strictly about early spay and neuter, and how that stresses the system. So Dr. Karen, can you just tell us about some of the environmental factors. Environmental Factors The other. You bet. So, maybe what we'll do is is a easer pre break is the fact that when we think about stress, yes, there's the emotional mental stress. So you know, if you have to keep your dog in a kennel all day while you're at work that is necessary, but that's also a physiologic stressor. There is lack of environmental enrichment in many dogs’ homes, or if there's some adversive training or harsh training that can be a mental or emotional stressor to a dog. The physical stressors like obesity, or lack of exercise, or having your blinds pulled close. My gosh, I didn't realize how much dark homes totally throw off our dog's circadian rhythm. I talked to Nobel Prize winner Dr. Satchin Panda. And he said, I said, What's your number one take home and he said to me, it should be cruelty to animals, that they are stuck in homes and apartments all day with the blinds closed. He said, if people knew how much endocrine disruption they could prevent by just allowing direct sunlight through windows into their homes everyday that alone, you would see an improvement with a dog’s mental well being and oh my gosh, it's so important. So that's a physical, those are physical. Then we're going to talk about chemical stressors. And so right before the break, let me just throw this in. Of course, there are chemical stressors in the home. So we have air and water. You know, if we're doing city water with fluoride and chlorine, if you're doing well water that has heavy metals, or for smoking inside the home, if we're using a lot of scented candles that give off VOCs if we're using cleaning products that say you know call poison control, we know that our animals are collecting those. If we're having off gases from flame retardants, all of those things inside of our home impact our dog's DNA. Outside of our home, we have lawn chemicals, pesticides, and they have several studies that talk about how just pesticide use alone. And if you have a professionally treated lawn that increases your dog's risk of lymphoma by 70%. That's what we call chemical stressors. But after the break, we're going to talk about the veterinary stressors. And that's the piece being a veterinarian, Gulp. That's a soft spot for me. And so we'll talk about veterinary stressors after the break because that's the category of things that I think oftentimes certainly veterinarians aren't reflecting on, but I think oftentimes pet parents aren't either. I'm excited. Well, everybody hold tight. We'll be right back. Thanks to my friends at Genie’s Therapeutics for sponsoring this Episode. Now if I say CBD, your head probably start spinning because there are so many canine CBD products on the market. I totally get it. But with little regulation in the industry, how are we to trust what's on the market? How do we even read a certificate of analysis? And will a certain product actually help our dog? Well, I've done the research and I've tried numerous CBD products on Winston and my trust is in Genie’s Therapeutics. This is a company that provides one of the few USDA organic certified hemp tinctures on the market today. And it is organic from seed to manufacturing. 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Dog Talk Conversation Starters offer 72 questions and writing prompts to get you connected and thinking about your dog in brand new ways. Whether sharing laughs about funny things our dogs do, or savoring favorite memories spent with a four legged friend, these Dog Talk cards are guaranteed to get you in touch with a dog in your life, or maybe even your heart. They worked for myself and my dog Winston and these are so fun with a group of dog loving friends to help prompt great conversations about our pups. Fun for all ages, these dog talk cards are a must for every dog parent. Order your deck by going to DogTalkCards.com and use the code WOL10 for 10% off. Order two or more boxes and get free shipping. Remember, these are limited edition, so be sure to order yours today! We are back and speaking with Dr. Karen Becker. So exciting! But Dr. Karen, you are a veterinarian, and you're about to talk about the stressors on dogs that our veterinarians are really responsible for. So I'll let you open that can of worms. Veterinary Stressors Well, thank you. I will also also preface this conversation by saying I hope your listeners understand that veterinarians are very good people with amazing hearts doing the very best they can in what I would call one of the hardest jobs on the planet. So first of all, everyone listening, please recognize your veterinarian is doing the very best they can so with the information that they have. And if you… so a couple different things. If you have wildly different viewpoints than your veterinarian, one of the things you can do to do to minimize stress and frustration for you is to potentially align yourself with a health and wellness or proactive functional medicine veterinarian that maybe has more aligning overarching viewpoints on how to approach health and medicine, disease and degeneration. If you don't have access to a health and wellness practitioner, and just as a side note, people say where do I go? Many many functional medicine or integrative veterinarians do phone consults. The College of Integrative Veterinary Therapies has a listing online that has a world wide reference of a directory you can go to https://civtedu.org/directory and if so let's just say you're stuck in in Idaho or North Dakota and you're like oh my gosh, there's no veterinarians three hours away for you not much less a wellness veterinarian. Don't fret. This is a this is gonna motivate you for two reasons. Number one, you should begin realizing that this is your cue to become the most empowered, knowledgeable pet parent because you are front and center then for identifying because you don't have a wellness veterinarian right on the corner, you are your dog or cat’s first go to you have to be wise enough to be able to make good decisions with no regrets, which means your learning curve may be exponential, but just do it anyway. And number two, you can meet a wellness or functional medicine integrative practitioner that you can do telemedicine or phone consults with and that is hugely reassuring to many people who say, Oh my gosh, I am in a rural part of North Africa, and I don't have access to a wellness veterinarian, you can because of technology. So just don't panic about that part. Second thing I'll mention is that some chemicals are necessary. And so I am by no means saying that, that this list, I'm going to rattle off I'll just start with flea and tick pesticides. So veterinarians you know, my group of professionals we routinely prescribe pesticides that we intentionally feed to pets on a consistent basis for flea, tick and heartworm. And people say oh my gosh, I never thought about the fact that I'm intentionally feeding pesticides to my animals. That kind of freaks me out. If you live in Florida, if you don't do something for fleas and ticks, you could end up with overwhelming Lyme disease, and overwhelming heartworm. And that that risk versus benefit of not using chemicals is not there. So I mean, you have to do something depending on where you live. But one of the things that's really important that we stress in the book is if you have to use chemicals on your lawn, or let's say you live in a subdivision where they are going to spray or you have to give to flea and tick pesticides. The key is to formulate a damage control protocol. So if you are going to knowingly institute a chemical stressor in or around your dog or cat, don't panic, evaluate does it have to happen and if it does, then you formulate a damage control protocol to help counteract any potential side effects. Same with vaccines. Vaccines are another veterinary chemical stressor that veterinarians routinely adjust. And what I would tell you from a functional wellness perspective is we all want our dogs to have Baseline Protection, great after two all time puppy shots for core vaccines that protection like with humans can oftentimes last a lifetime. So I know that you are a proponent of vaccine antibody titer, so am I. That's kind of common sense default, of course, I mean, the beautiful part about doing a simple easy blood test to measure your dog's immunity is once they're protected. They're protected for life. And it's just so reassuring to know that if your dog is around a Parvo positive puppy, they're protected. It's also reassuring to know that if God forbid, you can vaccinate your dog and your dog isn't protected. That's equally as important to know. Making Yeah, just making good decisions based on more knowledge is just very empowering. It should bring about a sense of relief and calming, not stress. I mean, that's one of the things that knowledge does is it helps put us in a place of taking a deep breath and saying, Okay, I'm so glad I knew enough to make this decision. So when it comes to other forms of veterinary stressors, you know, antibiotics are something that veterinarians oftentimes routinely prescribe. And sometimes just saying to your veterinarian, hey, my dog has a hotspot that's on the outside of the body. I can see it. It's an oozy gross thing I know you want to prescribe oral antibiotics, but what about me treating that oozy sore topically versus orally? Most veterinarians will say sure, give it a whirl. Here's what I recommend. Just having conversations with your vet if your vet’s saying hey, I want to automatically give your dog a dewormer just every year give them a de worming drug, you can say hey, how do you know what worms my dog has? Because the drugs we use for roundworms don't treat tapeworm so like why don't we do a parasite check. Let's look at the poop under a microscope. And if my dog has a parasite, we'll address it then that's an easy conversation. Your vet will say. Okay. So part of it is just opening a dialogue with your veterinarian about you recognizing that you want to be cognizant about the chemicals in and around your animal. And veterinarians are usually very open to having a conversation about recognizing that they want to reduce antibiotic resistance. They want to do everything they can to have a relationship with you that is trustworthy and also rooted in good communication and clear understanding of each other's needs. So just having a kind respectful conversation with your vet is a great place to start. In addition to those routine chemicals that veterinarians typically recommend. Veterinarians oftentimes also recommend early spay/neuter and this is a hard thing for me because I have been one of those veterinarians. When I opened my practice I came out of a kill shelter environment where I worked for 20 years and spaying and neutering early spay/neuter was very important to me because I equated it with responsible pet ownership. And it was only after I recognized that I had created an entire practice full of endocrine damaged dogs, that I started reflecting on the fact that I do have wildly responsible owners in my practice. And I have just created irrepairable endocrine damage on these dogs and in these dogs’ bodies. what can I do to potentially do damage control. So there again, if you are rescuing, and you have a dog that has come to you already spayed or neutered, that decision’s already been made for you. But one of the things I have learned, not just through writing the Forever Dog book, but into my dive of intentionally creating the longest, healthiest lived dogs on the planet. When we interviewed the owners of the oldest dogs in the world, they too, gave us more information that was very supportive of what this vast body of research is beginning to uncover. And what we've learned through research in the last 20 years, is that when we remove organs, specifically hormone secreting organs, so the ovaries in female dogs, and the testicles in male dogs, when we remove those hormone secreting tissues, before they ever had a chance to have the positive, impactful and necessary impact on their, the animal's endocrine system that's needed. For a fully functional system to work in harmony for normal hormone balance, when those organs are removed, before they ever have a chance to function. Some really negative things can happen. And when I started doing a deep dive into these really negative things, I It broke my heart because I am a veterinarian that has been directly responsible for harming many of my patients. So I'm going to read to you a list that is painful for me to read. I'm going to read to a list that not just me, but every veterinarian that has desexed dogs. Consequences of Early Desexing of Dogs If they don't know that there can be irreversible consequences when they do recognize it. It kind of takes you out at the knees because, of course, we all recognize that there's an overpopulation problem. And so none of us want to contribute to that. But what I have learned is that we can sterilize dogs with techniques that do not negatively impact our hormone system, which means we can render dogs sterile, so they're not capable of having unwanted litters without stripping them of necessary hormones. And so when we traditionally spay and neuter dogs, what the research shows is that animals that have been spayed and neutered, have higher incidences of obesity, urinary incontinence, bladder stones, atopic dermatitis, which is basically allergies in dogs, autoimmune hemolytic anemia, Addison's disease, that's that adrenal burnout that you were talking about. The medical term is called hyperadrenocorticism. But it's basically adrenal failure, diabetes, low thyroid or hypothyroidism immune mediated thrombocytopenia, that means the body quits making platelets, IBD, or inflammatory bowel disease, hip dysplasia, cranial cruciate ligament rupture, which is knee ligament tears, aggressive and fearful behavior, cognitive dysfunction syndrome, which is old dog Alzheimer's, doggy Alzheimer's, prostate cancer and bladder cancer. And the research goes on to say that musculoskeletal issues are significantly elevated the risk for increased musculoskeletal issues of all kinds for large breed dogs desexed before their growth plates have closed, is also a massive issue. So there's a long list, too long of irrepairable stuff really long list. And you know, I'll, I will send you the email of the resources. So if you want to put in the show notes, or if people want access, I'll send you the dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of articles, in fact about one a week right now coming out demonstrating the deleterious effects of not having any sex hormones. So again, I want to qualify for your listeners that we're not talking about irresponsibility, we're not talking about leaving animals intact to have unwanted litters. If they don't fill up our shelters, you're not talking about that. What we're talking about is the fact that many of us have spayed or neutered our dogs because we were told it's the healthiest. It's the healthiest thing we could do. Do and to be responsible and to create health. This is what we need to do. And for me it was eye opening to realize that sometimes we have to learn, unlearn, and relearn topics as science presents itself. Sometimes we have to totally switch gears and actually say things like, oh my goodness, as a professional, we were wrong about this approach. And we need to potentially change our course of action so that we don't continue creating damaged endocrine systems. And so this is kind of the beginning of us having a conversation worldwide on the veterinary level about the fact that we probably should be entertaining a conversation about teaching veterinary students, alternative sterilization techniques like vasectomy, and hysterectomy, that allow dogs to be sterile, but still have some sex hormones, so that some of these degenerative diseases don't occur in life. Brilliant. And if you were to suggest an age of a dog to wait on these alternative desexing methods, what would you suggest? What Age Should We Consider Spay/Neuter? But when we ask this to not only theriogenologists that we that we interviewed for the book, but I just asked this to Dr. Michelle Kutzler, who's a veterinarian, and she's board certified in Theriogenology, which is the specialty of reproduction. So she's basically an OBGYN For dogs. And I just did a podcast with her at on October 16. Actually, it's posted on Dr. Karen Becker’s Facebook page about this topic. So if any listeners want to spend an hour and a half kind of diving into this topic, you can scroll back through to October 16. And, and hear the my interview with a reproductive specialist about this topic. And what Dr. Kutzler suggested is that if you have a large breed dog, a dog over 50 pounds, that if you can wait until they are skeletally, mature, and that's different for every breed, for instance, you know, Tibetan Mastiffs, which are really big, massive breed, and they're very slow to develop, they really don't reach maturity until two years of age. So waiting until at least two would be a good idea. And for listeners, or readers, or for people in your circle, your wellness community that have purchased a dog from a breeder, many breeders wright into the contract that they that they can't spay or neuter before two years of age, or until after at least that second heat, because that gives the body a little bit of progesterone and estrogen, to be able to carry the body at least partially through a dog's life. So that maybe that early incontinence or I've had dogs, by the time that I've pulled their sutures, after spaying them, they've already started in to urinary incontinence. And that's a little overwhelming. So even letting a dog go through two heat cycles will give a bump of hormones that could be protective, at least according to research. Interesting. Well, we are about to wrap up. But I will put that other podcast in the show notes as well so people can do a deep dive. I hate to add to the list, but I think I read that Cushing's is also a disorder that has been shown… Better Way to Desex Our Dogs Yes. And you know, Cushing's disease, in fact adrenal dysfunction. The Addison's disease has been demonstrated into peer reviewed studies. Cushing's disease does have some research behind it where it has been implicated, certainly animals that are Krishna raised, the vast majority of animals with Cushings would have been spayed or neutered. So I do think that there certainly is a link. And that makes sense to me, even without the research that makes sense to me in that, that there's this hypothalamus, adrenal axis, cortisol axis, that that where the brain works with the adrenal glands and the sex hormones to maintain a physiologic balance in a dog's body. And so it makes total sense to me. And I would say that in my personal experience, absolutely Cushing's disease, as well as Addison's both have implications with spayed and neutered dogs. I don't have that that peer reviewed study for Cushing's in the in the dozens and dozens of references that I'll send you, because I don't think that they have been, I think that it's inferred that there is a link, but I don't have that research. But if you have it, you should share that with me because that means I missed that study. But I do think that adrenal disease and thyroid disease, the endocrine system, works as a web and so if you think about pulling on one side of a spiderweb, the entire web moves with it. So it does make sense that in animals and dogs specifically, like kitties are not affected by this issue, thank goodness. And the podcast I do with Dr. Kutzler kind of dives into why cats thank goodness don't have all these repercussions. But spaying and neutering of dogs is something that if we're capable of waiting until animals are physically mature, that's a really good idea. Or if you want to desex, if you want to sterilize your animals, and you don't want to desex them, let's say at eight weeks of age, you can ask your veterinarian for hysterectomy or vasectomy. Now, not all veterinarians know how to do that procedure. And that's kind of the hangup right now. But the beautiful part is more and more veterinarians are learning how to do hysterectomy and vasectomy, it's less time under anesthesia, it's a quicker, shorter procedure. It's a win win way all the way around, except that vet aren't taught how to do it. And so Dr. Kutzler has kind of made it her mission to help veterinarians learn these additional surgical techniques. So they're able to offer them to their clients. And she actually has some videos, if you are listening to this, and you are a veterinarian, or you want your veterinarian to potentially learn more. The Parsemus Foundation is a nonprofit that does a really great job of educating veterinarians and pet parents about some alternatives to some sterilization alternatives to desexing that helps preserve and endocrine function, which is wonderful. That is great. So you didn't stress us out? You actually gave us some good news that there are options. So yeah, that's good. Dr. Becker. Oh, my gosh, as we sign off, is there anything you'd like to leave us with? Advocating For Our Dogs The Right Way Well, I Yeah. And let me tell you why. You know, when we do kind of, I don't want to say short for like, first of all, I love the fact that your podcasts are short enough that people can get the information and get out, they don't go on for 2, 3, 4 hours, it's really beautiful. It's a perfect amount of time. But when we cover a topic like this, sometimes you can go away with Oh, my gosh, I didn't know that I feel overwhelmed. So the little tidbit of advice I would like to leave your listeners with are two things. Number one, if you have desexed your dog, don't panic, I have too. There's all sorts of damage control protocols. For every single one of those conditions listed there is a damage control protocol. So if your dog has one of the symptoms, don't melt down, take a deep breath and realize, okay, my dog has this. It's not just because they were spayed or neutered. All of these diseases have multifactorial effects that play into this. But there are still some things that can be done to help rebalance your dog's endocrine system post spay/neuter so don't feel like there's irreparable damage. that's been done, number one. And number two, I think that everyone listening to this podcast is doing the very best they can to provide the best life for the animals in their care. And I think that oftentimes, we're really hard on ourselves that we don't know enough. And if we could have had more money and more time and more resources and more knowledge, and that we could have done a better job. And I think that oftentimes we guilt ourselves into feeling so much shame and anxiety that we that we actually miss the incredible meaningful times we have with our dogs that just want it they want to hang out with us. They just want to spend time with us whether they're sick, or well, they just want to hang out with us. And I think that if we can let ourselves off the hook for all that we should be doing it could be doing and take a deep breath and begin to approach our dog's health and potentially recovery, that their illness recovery or their health and wellness journey begins with us taking a grounded, centered approach at a pace that doesn't cause any more stress in our lives, and at a pace that we can feel comfortable instituting with our budget and the resources and the knowledge that we have, that we every day, make a conscientious effort to learn more so that we can apply one step at a time, a little bit of knowledge, or a change or a pivot, or one thing that allows us to on a day by day basis, intentionally create patterns and choices, through good healthy decisions that come through learning information at a pace that we can absorb and apply. And that by the end of our time with our dogs on this earth. Our job is to be able to put our head on your pillow and say I did the very best that I could and I'm so thankful for this time with this blessed being and at that point. We've done all that we can and instead of beating ourselves up celebrate what a beautiful blessed gift this animal was and how much we've learned from sharing this life with this animal that we had. So I think if we can rearrange our perspective and shift it from frustration and guilt and anxiety about the stuff that isn't done and shifting it to a more proactive wellness empowered, I'm doing all I can and I can't wait to learn more, it helps us enjoy the journey. You are so right and what perfect advice. Well, Dr. Becker, where can everybody find out more information about you and what you're doing and The Forever Dog? Where to Find More About Dr. Becker The Forever dog is easy. It's just ForeverDog.com. And my over arching website, if you want to know more about who you know more about who I am, or what I do is DrKarenBecker.com. Instagram: @drkarenbecker Facebook: @doctor.karen.becker Easy enough and that everything that Dr. Becker mentioned, of course, will be in the show notes as well. And your social media tags. I'll put those in too. So Dr. Becker, thank you. This journey that I've been on has been worth the wait just to have you on this Show. I can't believe it. It's so exciting. So thank you. Well, and thank you so much. I tell you, it is so wonderful to see how many proactive Wellness Advocates are creating platforms and information outlets that allow people to plug in and get the tools and the resources and the information they need. It's just a beautiful way that we're knitting together an international wellness community that really is making a big difference when it comes to creating healthier, happier animals. So thank you so much for the part that you're doing. Oh, I appreciate you, Dr. Becker. Thanks so much. Thanks again to our sponsor Genie’s Therapeutics for sponsoring this episode. Fetch some Genie’s Therapeutics Hemp Signature Blend for your dog at GeniesTherapeutics.com. And be sure to use the code WOLspecial to receive free shipping and 10% off. Thanks again to Talking With the Dogs and their new Dog Talk Conversation Starter Cards for sponsoring this episode. Get your limited edition Dog Talk Cards by visiting DogTalkCards.com and use the code WOL10 for 10% off, plus free shipping if you order two or more boxes. Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode? Don’t forget to Subscribe for FREE and please leave a review: Apple Podcasts | Android | Spotify I Stitcher I iHeartRADIO The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. 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