Hello everyone! This is Krista with Episode #128 on the Wag Out Loud Pawdcast. Listen to this: Analysts with Morgan Stanley believe the pet industry in the United States may reach $275 billion by 2030, and that’s up from $118 billion in 2019. This will be fueled by increasing pet ownership and higher spending. This shows that more and more people are realizing how much dogs enrich our lives, include them as part of our families and we just can’t help pampering them. Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition and overall well being. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Dr. Zac Pilossoph, a Long Island, NY born, nationally recognized veterinary medical professional, a top graduate of Tufts University Veterinary School of Medicine with post-graduate focused training in E/CC and Neurology/Neurosurgery at two of the most recognized programs in the country. As one of the world’s most proactive cannabis-focused experts in his respective industry, Dr. Pilossoph provides non-bias, harm reduction education, to the global cannabis pet and vet industry. Welcome dog lovers! Let's learn something new today from Dr. Zac Pilossoph, who is going to share natural Cushing's control. Dr. Zac, we so appreciate you being with us today. Why don't you introduce yourself? And tell us how you came to be one of the premier global veterinary cannabis educational experts. Yeah, absolutely. So first off, I'm super excited to be here today. It's such a great platform, the amount of people that have been inspired and, and educated from this one platform alone is, is really quite amazing. So I'm happy to be on here. And so yeah, so essentially, I'm one of the newer generation vets kind of breaking out of the box a little bit, it's been a quick, gradual process. And that's, you know, obviously an oxymoron. You know, sometimes we think like you're moving slow, but there's just so much to know, outside of school that you need to, you know, you have to be a lifelong learner, no matter what your profession is, I guess. So, I got to this point, basically, initially kind of following the professional path for a veterinarian, I was going to do a couple of steps towards not only becoming a general vet, but I also want to specialize in actually neurology when I was younger, but quickly found out that I was meant to do a bit more with my life. And I just was driven to just kind of follow, I guess, winding roads that were not as walked or not as bright. And I was always curious about things that were newer or innovative. And so after following in that kind of natural inclination, I, you know, had come to fall in love with a few areas of veterinary medicine with, with cannabis and CBD being one of those. And so you know, about three or four years ago, actually, that's when I started to really get exposed to it on the human side. More than on the animal because they have so much more opportunity to get to the human side to get feedback from the use of it, and the ability to try and find the ways in which it can be therapeutic, as well as mitigate any type of potential adverse effects. And so through a couple friends, and then a couple of business partners I was able to become quickly immersed in that world. So essentially, you know, through through a few friends and and as well as some business partners, I was able to be quickly immersed in the human side of the cannabis movement, and found that it was something that was truly had a great principle behind it. And I was just blown away by the stories and the real world people that I was meeting that had not only improved their quality of life, but also had been beating conditions and diseases that the rest of the world had kind of given up on them on. So I was really just absolutely just enlightened by that and became interested to see how that would play out with the patients that I had been dedicated my life to. And from then on, it was just it was a bit of trial and error meeting the right people out of a large pool of people that maybe didn't have the same principles right in and then slowly finding out that there are actually some people with a really great mission in this industry through the chaos of the “wild west of cannabis and CBD”. Whereas now, after about three or four years of of holding those close to me, and finding people that are interested in the educational component first and then being able to then search for products, or help people find a product that they can trust second, and then making sure that you're there for them along the pathway of their trial and error period as well. That's how I’ve been able to get to this position now. That's great. Well, I'm excited to chat with you about this topic because as we all know, there are so many studies finally being done on cannabis, and how it helps not only humans, but our pets as well. And I wanted to ask you, you're also the Chief Veterinary Officer for CBD Dog Health, which is a product that I absolutely love. And we just recently actually yesterday released Angela Ardolino’s episode on cancer, and how CBD is helping to treat cancer, which is exciting. So what made you choose that company to partner with? It's a great question, actually. Because I tell you what I promise you when I started many years ago, I said to myself, I wouldn't pick one company over another because I wanted to kind of be the overall regulator of the industry that helped kind of every company maintain a level or standard that I thought was acceptable and more likely exceptional, so that we didn't have this problem of second guessing if something was going to actually do what we expected. However, it was actually kind of futile to tell you the truth. I just, I reached out to so many companies, I tried so hard to be that third party figure almost like a non bias, FDA for lack of a better analogy for the pet CBD space. And you know, through speaking engagements and meeting people and trying to offer my ability as a, as a guiding light to them, that none of them really wanted that and I didn't understand why. And then finally, I met this group at one of those engagements, two and a half years ago or so. And they were thrilled to meet me, and I was thrilled to meet them. And I think it actually started because I was like the first veterinarian they’d ever met that wasn't scared of THC. And THC we are taught is poisonous, basically. And, you know, it's really, it's not as Oh my god, it's just like every other, every other compound within our bodies. So it’s all about the therapeutic window, and then what you can use do within that in order to make your body enhance versus, you know, worrying about adverse effects. That kind of sparked it. And then I, I really found that there was at least one company out there that after years of begging companies to listen to me of what I've done on my own, sort of know exactly what you needed to start to finish that they were as transparent as possible, and that they had a product that you had no problem finding pet parents that were willing and able to talk about the before and after story so that they have it similar to just how I started with on the human side when I when I was convinced on that side. So again, when you see that you hear that and you have a company that's willing to let you come in from start to finish and look at whatever they're making and stand behind it. That's what I was looking for, for and hoping for everyone. But you know, they were they were really the first and only ones that I came across that really allowed me to do that and trusted in my education and I trusted in their principles behind the product. That's great. Well, I'm glad you're part of that team. Well, again, we're gonna chat about Cushing's disease in dogs. And that's a pretty common ailment, right? Absolutely. Yeah. Its millions of dogs. Yeah, I have the latest data. I don't know if it's, if it's what you know, but according to Washington State University an estimated 100,000 dogs are diagnosed with Cushing's in the United States every single year. Is that about right? Yeah, exactly. Yep. Yep. And you can imagine how quickly that can build up over time. And did I read somewhere that it's actually the opposite of Addison's? Yep, exactly. So Cushing's is an overproduction of your steroids, your natural steroid hormones, and Addison's is essentially a consequence of the adrenal glands, not being able to produce in general, the amount of hormones that they that they're in charge of. things that can include all the hormones that are created by the adrenal glands, or certain types from different different locations. Okay, got it. So how does a dog actually get Cushing's? That's a really great question, because that's exactly going to answer the question as to why CBD is a potential therapeutic option for it. And the reason is, because Cushing's disease is a cancerous mass that is active. And that's important for us to know. cancer is a word that everyone's fearful of, but it's not. It's not a word that we have to blanket, you know, be blanket fearful of. And the reason being is because cancer comes in multiple ways. And the way in which Cushing’s works is that either it's from, you know, a constant pounding on negative feedback loops throughout your body, or, you know, a different reason of sorts. Cushing's disease is actually created by a benign tumor that grows in one or two locations of your body of your dog's body. Essentially, it can either be a tumor that grows inside the pituitary gland, which is inside the brain, or it can be a tumor that grows in their adrenal glands in their abdomen. And the reason why it's important is because, like I said, although cancer is a scary word cancer can be benign or malignant. And this cancer type is what we consider benign. But it's a metabolically active benign tumor. And it creates excessive hormones, mainly which being your steroid hormone, and that has numerous segues downstream for our body when they're being produced this high level on a constant basis. We're dealing with with, you know, an “endocrine disease.” Yeah. But the actual ideology, is a benign tumor that grows. Okay, I didn't know that. Is it true, Dr. Zac, that a lot of time… Well, not a lot of times, but there are times when there's too much vaccinations being administered, that that could cause Cushing's? Yeah, I think that there's research in the over the last 40 years from measures that we've kind of become comfortable with doing just as some shotgun method approach. One in which actually, I think vaccination plays a role. But the one after I think that we're thinking maybe actually is more influential on terms in terms of kind of, I guess, intercepting the normal feedback loop that I kind of mentioned before, and your body is early spaying and neutering in dogs. And the reason being is because the gonads which are the final receiver of the hormones that are created by adrenal glands, which are stimulated by the pituitary gland, if we remove those organs too early, they can disrupt the feedback loop and then cause an overproduction or an over response to the negative control centers that feedback throughout the body. And again, the reason why that's important because if you have the brain talking to the adrenal glands and it was supposed to be talking to the gonads, if we remove that end result, then you have this backup of hormones that are trying to then go to a destination that doesn't exist. So I think vaccination and you know, impurities and toxins in the environment and in the food, no doubt are causing our bodies to be a little bit more pro or hyper inflammatory. And that definitely doesn't help at all. So you know, if you are able to take measures on those fronts, it's it's definitely something that is relevant now. But what I think a lot of the doctors that are in the integrative world and the holistic world are maybe seeing is that actually may be a very logical consequence of when spaying and neutering early and that doesn't mean that we're saying spay neutering is bad, because population controls are something we need to be aware of as humans, as we unfortunately, also have had that effect on dogs and cats if we're not responsible. But I think that there's a time and place for everything, I think I will find maybe that there's a better time or place til our bodies mature. And this might be a consequence of that. Okay, so I have to ask you, what age do you think is appropriate for spay or neuter? You know, it's tough, right? Because I think now everyone's gonna start developing their own opinions. What I've been kind of just coming into this position of is like, I understand when a dog is young and still growing, and I understand when a dog enters geriatric. And so you know, within that window is kind of where I would say, is the best place because you're going to let the body mature fully, and you're not going to make it so that it's thirsting for the complete feedback loop that exists. But at the same time, as you get geriatric, the organs that we removed during a spay or neutering surgery, those aren't really being used anymore, and they're actually more predisposed to them becoming a problem to the body, whether it's infection or cancer. So, you know, geriatric involves, again, relative based on the size of the dog, are between eight to nine years in a small toy breed dog, seven to eight and medium size, five to six in a larger or giant breed. You know, when you're when your person ages, the organs are removed, are technically, probably not useful and necessary, in terms of metabolically but to spay and neuter earlier than when the body's mature. I really am confident that not only just Cushing’s, but several other endocrine diseases, we're going to find maybe a correlation to that, whether they are endocrine, or are congenital, orthopedic, cancer, etc. So the window, you know, like I said, it's hard, it's relative, it's kind of based on the breed and it's based on the owner, how responsible the owner is. Do you trust that owner, you know, to be able to keep that dog intact for a while, but, you know, the mid mid adulthood is definitely somewhere I think that we need to be targeting for for that. And that's not even to get to the topic and discussion of, you know, vasectomies and hysterectomies versus classic spay and neutering. That's super new. But that's a whole different topic. Yes, we'll have to have you on again. This is a great place for us to take a quick commercial break, we will be right back. SPONSOR AD Thanks to our sponsor CBD Dog Health. It is one of the very few CBD companies that I feel confident in recommending and here’s just a few reasons why: Their FULL SPECTRUM HEMP-DERIVED CBD PRODUCTS ARE: · Extracted from high-quality hemp grown in the U.S. with no use of herbicides, pesticides or chemical fertilizers · Legal in all 50 states with less than 0.3% THC · Non-GMO · Full of active cannabinoids such as CBD, CBG, CBN, CBDA, · Processed using supercritical CO2 extraction · Manufactured with 100% food-grade ingredients · Tested by a third-party laboratory · Available for home delivery to all 50 states Check out all of the quality CBD DOG HEALTH products and help your dog find relief at https://cbddoghealth.com/ AND be sure to use the code WOL for 20% Off. Trust in a company that is passionate about helping your pet live their very best life. Hello, everyone, we are back with Dr. Zac Pilossoph. We're going to talk about how we can treat Cushing's disease naturally. And Dr. Zac, I just wanted to quickly before we talk about how CBD can treat I understand there's three types of Cushing's. Is that right? Yeah, I guess you could say that. I mean, the primary ones we talk about are pituitary and adrenal dependence. Those are tough to get sometimes with we will talk about those actually, I guess, technically, they could be four, but mostly it's easy to pituitary adrenal dependent. And that's just based on where the hormones are being produced. Okay. And it's difficult to diagnose, why is that? It can be because to get a definitive diagnosis, it requires some tests that are tailored to trying to prove the excessive stress response of the body basically. And so the reason why it’s hard is because if a dog has other conditions that are occurring at the same time, or the body is immune suppressed for some reason, or, you know, it just got over it a different condition or, you know, better, there's so many different examples, that the ability to get a true accurate reading of the body's stress response by itself and in and of itself, and can be skewed or, you know, kind of altered by the things that are going on, right, because your body, you know, your body doesn't work in one single linear plane, it's always overlapping. So, you know, we have a variety of tests that your veterinarian might mention, in addition to just basic blood work, they may be wanting to suggest in order to try and get a definitive diagnosis. And that can be blood tests, or that can be, you know, imaging of the abdomen as well. So it is difficult sometimes to get an accurate diagnosis. But sometimes, it can be diagnosed, but it can be difficult. I definitely agree. Okay, how is it treated in conventional medicine? And then we're gonna move over to how CBD affects the treatment. Right? So conventional, has been pretty limited, actually. So, you know, I always mention this, because I think it's quite funny. But actually, one of the first drugs that was used was something called Mitotane, which is a sister of DEET, which is, you know, is perfect bug repellant. A carcinogen. And so that was we used to use and I think that's amazing that we thought that was a therapeutic option, nonetheless, so really, right now, the most common drug that's used is something called Trilostane, which is goes under the name of Vetoryl, I believe. And essentially, what it does is it blocks the enzyme that is divided uses in order to then a couple of steps down the road, create cortisol or your stress hormone. And so on paper, it looks great, because it means that your body can create cortisol. But, you know, at the same time, what about all the other molecules that are supposed to be made by that system is also being blocked by that enzyme that was blocking, you know, it's confusing to talk about it, it's easier to make a drawing of it, but all you have to know is the kind of, you know, you're kind of cutting the the trunk of the tree and expecting the roots to, you know, still get water from the branches. So, you know, it's difficult to really fathom how again, that's that's an option. But again, it does work for some dogs, but a lot of dogs, it definitely doesn't it only has about a 60 to 70% positive influence in that same time, you know, what are the adverse effects from blocking that enzyme and the third would be specific, usually to the tumor itself, where it's located. So if it's in the abdomen, it's adrenal, an adrenal dependent tumor, and sometimes people do surgery to remove it. If it's a pituitary dependent tumor, sometimes they'll do radiation to try and shrink it. So those are usually the three options, but the most common by far is using Trilostane. Now on to CBD. So, we're treating or a hormonal imbalance as well as a tumor. So what are the benefits of using CBD specifically for Cushing's? The specific list is actually quite diverse, which is, again, surprising to me. It's something that I never expected when I met the CBD Dog Health Group, to be able to be a part of this, this early finding, but the list in which not only that the direct cause for the increase steroid production, but the side effects and the adverse effects your body feels downstream. They're all kind of directly, not well, most of them, if not all of them are, can be addressed by a full spectrum CBD rich extract from a trusted source. So, you know, starting with the obvious that, you know, CBD, full spectrum, CBD rich extract that has THC in it has been found to be numerous studies capable of addressing numerous types of cancer types in the body. So, directly we can do the directly addressing the source of where the excessive steroids are being produced and helps to shrink, that tumor to a normal size. The second would be a lot of the modulation in general of the endocrine system. So there's numerous reports showing that CBD helps to modulate and regulate your endocrine system, meaning that it doesn't cause it to go too high or too low, it often helps in a fashion to keep it in the regular fashion and normalcy in more ways than one. And it's not just what's the steroid hormones, it can be with numerous other neuro hormones and other molecules your body creates everyday talking to each other between cells and organs. So those are two right off the bat that again, address that to me specifically. And then there's the other you know, other things that that Cushing’s causes. Specifically, it causes an immune suppression of your body from having steroids all around all the time. And immune suppression leads to the ability to develop infections earlier specifically, skin infections can be something that’s common. ear infections becoming as common. And so as we know, full spectrum CBD rich extract topically is actually one of the most effective uses no matter what, whether human or a dog or another animal. It's hugely responsive when used topically for the fact that every layer of your skin has both CB1 and CB2 receptors in it. Truley responsive not only for inflammation, but for itch, for infection. And then, you know, lastly would be skin tags and benign tumors that often form on the skin from the actual effect of Cushing's. And whether it's one of those fatty tumors that we call the lipoma or a sebaceous cyst, or skin tag tumor. These are super common when you have Cushing’s. again, a lot of them are due to the immune suppression or dysregulation of a cell that otherwise shouldn't be dividing. And, again, Cushing’s is directly related to it. Because we see this in such a high number in these cases, and then at the same time, and CBD has the ability to address other cancer types, these are not any different. So those are really the most common things we see, you know, helping to address the tumor itself has grown as a benign tumor, how it modulates the immune system and the endocrine system, and then helping to for a variety of conditions that we can visually see on the outside whether infection or inflammation, or actually little bumps in the skin that there's actually a couple more, but those are the main ones. I would definitely point out. That's exciting. And do you recommend both an oral tincture as well as putting a salve topically on a tumor? Yes, absolutely. 100%? Yeah, if you can get it from both directions, there's absolutely zero drawback to that. And there's only added benefit if it's going to be effective. And you can if you can reach that perspecitve. Is Cushing's a disease that a dog will have for life? So they would be on this CBD regimen for life? Or is it possible to actually “cure” it? Well, that's a good question. Actually. I don't know if we yet, as a very small group of people have are able to kind of answer that in terms of a longevity study. I don't know if I can give a great answer to that. I know that it's a gradual reduction in terms of side effects and the condition that you kind of see them in almost like a domino fashion. But I actually, I'm not positive about that. I think that we're still very early in knowing if this is something that has to be continuously at a steady state, or if it does effectively, you know, address the tumor in a variety of dogs. And then after that their their level of remission forever? That's a good question. I would love to be able to answer that in the next few years, you know, at least some type of small group of pet parents that are willing to help us prospectively understand. That's great. Well, there have been studies on CBD for Cushing's correct? In pets, no not not right now. So it's all in human medicine so far, but it's very promising. great results. Yeah, it is. you know, when you're looking at the you know, the the ultimate surveillance or ultimate regulator system in the body, the endocannabinoid system, which is what CBD full spectrum CBD rich extract is helping to enhance and to keep at a high function. It just makes sense that it's going to help wherever it is needed and You know, this is no different. You know, of course, you know any other condition or disease that can respond to it. And as far as dosing, you know a lot of people, we know that because of the endocannabinoid system that we should be taking CBD preventatively anyway, ourselves and our dogs. But when we have Cushing's, would there be a higher dosage? So the dosing question is, without a doubt one of the more frustrating ones, to to help, I think that society understand because we've been so tuned in to the dose response curve of classic pharmaceuticals, that when it comes to cannabis cannabis is I think a lot of people would disagree with what I'm saying here. But cannabis doesn't seem to show the very classic dose response curve that we would expect with pretty much every other pharmaceutical and you know, every drug that we use to heal is based on a milligram per kilogram or mozart per pound, or kilogram per meter square basis, meaning that it's based on, you know, either a weight or a surface area, and that it should be a linear a linear relationship. with cannabis, and classically with CBD, you'll find this with CBD like the curve in which how CBD works. And there's a there's a middle moderate dose that usually works best based on the individual at hand. So when you're looking at using cannabis as part of a multi modal approach to addressing one or more conditions, you have to take into account that animal in and of itself, meaning what is the age of the animal? What disease or diseases are you trying to address? what pharmaceuticals have you been on? How fatigued has its endocannabinoid system already been? You know, how what what is our goals in terms of treatment? Are we looking to mitigate something? Are we trying to actually cure something? You know, so and then what other you know, what other natural therapies are we going to include with it? Are we going to try to use CBD as a monotherapy? You know, those are six categories, that alone would be important to consider prior to us kind of answering that question, but it is something we can answer but I think in many situations, but the endocannabinoid system itself is something we're just still under trying to understand quickly. So that dose we're going to need to I guess, keep a long story short, yes, we'll be we'll need more than what would be considered I guess, a steady state basal amount, because we are trying to address the actual condition, how much of it is going to be case dependent based on the animal. Well, and I'm sure you and the team at CBD Dog Health would be happy to work with you on a starting dosage for your own dog. And then you go from there. You can always increase it, of course. So actually, the sponsor of today's episode is CBD Dog Health. It's a product that I highly recommend, of course, Dr. Zac being a part of the team. So if anyone's interested in talking to them about not only Cushing's but any ailment that your dog might have, the team is wonderful, and will help you in your journey. So as we're wrapping up, Dr. Zac, is there anything that you would like to leave us with as far as CBD and Cushing's? Yeah, I have my classic sign off, I guess, in a minute or less. So my first thing is, is essentially, you know, like, I know, I'm part of a small group of veterinarians that not only maybe want to give CBD a try, but are going forward with the necessary education to understand the cannabis plant and the CBD products out there in general. And so you know, obviously, what that what this does, though, is this topic creates a lot of fear in a lot of people's minds because it is, like you said, very unregulated. And so the first thing you need to know is that, for me, at least, we are not as cannabis advocates saying that cannabis is going to 100% cure everything, no problem whatsoever by itself. Don't worry about anything else, just use cannabis or CBD and it's going to do it. You know, people always say all the time, we're giving it high hopes that older dogs are going to be cured, and then they're going to turn around and use it themselves, they're going to be totally fine. That’s not how it works. CBD is though…what I'll say is this 100% confident that if you have a product that has that you really can trust based on the company's as well as your own due diligence in terms of making sure that product is safe and also effective is that there is no better first tier natural therapy or natural remedy that you can use for almost every condition with confidence and knowing that there is one or more ways that it's going to be able to help you or your pet become more balanced and more helpful in life. Cannabis is not a cure all for everything. But it is without a doubt one of the most profound, multimodal therapies that we can turn to for almost every condition and be confident that this is something that's only going to help our bodies if we find a product that is proven to be safe and effective through the due diligence of both parties. I totally agree. Well, Dr. Zac, we are out of time. I can't thank you enough for sharing this valuable information. Where can everyone find out more about you? So right now, both of my contacts can be done through directly through CBD Dog Health. That's why, I let them take care of the community reaching out to me, and whether that's just questions that they can submit through social media platforms. Or Angela, you mentioned before is the CEO of the company. And we actually are are able to do tele health consultations for pet parents who are looking to not only incorporate CBD but looking to help improve their dog's life through incorporating natural foods and remedies that can otherwise be either in conjunction with or eventually maybe even supplant what they're doing right now with their pets in terms of treatments. So CBD Dog Health has been helpful so much in terms of taking that stress off me. So that's where you can really turn to but that's the main homepage, or the email there. I'm friends with everyone on that team. Perfect. Well, we so appreciate everything that you're doing, as the studies keep coming in. And, you know, even anecdotally, people are finding CBD to help so many different things. I'm excited to see what's on the horizon. And just another reason to have you back. Yeah, absolutely. I guess that is quite impressive. How many how many pet parents, how many educators, how many experts you can bring together on one platform and have enlightened. so I I'm so thankful that you invited me on here and you never know. A couple months, years down the road, maybe we can do it again. Let's! Alright, Dr. Zac, thank you so much. Absolutely. Thank you. Thanks again to our friends at CBD Dog Health for sponsoring this episode. Check out all of their amazing products like: CBD enriched hemp oils for separation anxiety or traveling needs, extra-strength cannabinoid formulations specially made for more serious conditions like PTSD or pain from cancer, salves to treat dry skin for dogs and other ailments like hot spots and allergies, and all-natural pet treats. All of the CBD Dog Health products are made to effectively treat your pet holistically and naturally. Help your dog to thrive by using the code WOL for 20% Off at CBDdoghealth.com Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode?