Hello This is Krista with Episode #145 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. Have you checked out all of the amazing partner products that I highly recommend? These are products that I have tried and can recommend to you that will help your dog to thrive. Just go to https://www.wagoutloud.com/ to check out the Partner Products section. And notice that I've negotiated discounts for most of the products, so why not see what can make a difference in your dog's life? Feeding your dog dry processed food like kibble is essentially like feeding your dog fast food. And here's why. Much like fast food for us humans. dry dog food can be filled with added chemicals, highly processed ingredients, and worse low grade ingredients. And again, just like fast foods for humans, this wreaks havoc on your dog's insides and even leads to things like leaky gut, achy feeling joints, bad breath, mushy poop, and even weight gain. Have you tried feeding your dog a fresh food diet? Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Chris Green started his journey with animals to be a voice for the voiceless. He has transitioned that to being not only a voice for the voices but shares others voices who are equally passionate about bringing only the best quality of life for our furry friends.  He started this February 2014 and has rescued hundreds of furry friends, fostered, transported, organized adoption events, and handed pet food to low income pet parents every month. He does this in the honor and inspiration of Katana, who passed last year, and he wears her pawprint in his tattoo proudly to remind him of why he started this. Hi there dog lovers, and welcome to another episode of the Wag Out Loid pawdcast. Joining me today is Chris Green and he is here to chat with us about holistic alternatives for proteins in dog food. Chris, I am so thrilled that you're here with us today. Could you please introduce yourself and tell us why are you so passionate about canine nutrition? Thank you, Krista for having me. I mean, this is kind of like I was saying before we started recording. It's so weird to be sitting on this side of the microphone instead of on your side. So yeah, I'm Chris Green. I have been a podcaster since 2014. Of course, that transitioned a little bit over the years, went from being a podcaster to doing a weekly radio show. And in that transition of those, oh gosh, what are we looking at going on almost eight years now, I have grown a great passion when it comes to our pets, pretty much their nutritional values. And so Krista and I were talking about this way back when and by the time this is on, it's been almost a year since we discussed this opportunity for me being on your show. And, you know, the whole idea is that we have to evolve when it comes to nutrition. We started off with canned dog food, way back when in the 50s. And it would have the good companies that had real meat and real ingredients in its food. And that has spiraled downhill over the last multi decades to what we now see. And I think it's time we all start looking at alternatives to what are we going to put in our dog’s and even our cat’s food bowl. I agree. Well, Chris, do you agree that there will be a shortage of traditional animal protein in the coming years? So you know, that's an interesting question. So with what they've been saying there has been a great deal of groups, not only just in the US, but all around the world. And they've been discussing that there will be a shortage of different animals to actually be consumed. Or, you know, there's a very interesting concept that commercial farms will be shrunk down because cows in some case, what they claim, emit a lot of pollution. So when we think about it, if even commercial farms are reduced to only so much beef might be almost scarce, may not be a product that we'll be able to have, which is probably very strange to a lot of people. And then of course, you know, you look at the conventional dog food and cat food that we see right now. It's really not made with what we think it is. The wheat, the grains, all of those have been well rendered and adulterated and there are so many different things that have made the ingredients just absolutely insufficient for our dogs and cats on its own. And it's also changed their DNA and their allergy structures astronomically. So we're going to be seeing probably in like next 10 years, something that's going to have to change if cows are not going to be something that we're going to be able to use or have for dogs and cats, alternatives will have to suffice. Well, why do you think in addition to lowering the carbon footprint of factory farming that we are seeing today? Why do you think there's this rising interest in incorporating non traditional proteins into our companion animals diets? That's a good question, Krista. So with when you think about it, the number one allergy for dogs and cats is poultry. So chicken is the leading allergy for dogs. So for all of these listening, they're saying my dog has a lot of scratching, fur is coming off in areas, there’s this dandruffy look, that's dry skin that's coming off the dogs. And that is possibly some kind of fungus that could be growing underneath the skin. That's a lot of the reasons why dogs are always scratching at one spot or chewing on a spot is because underneath the skin is an allergy reaction. And a lot of it is based on poultry. So you're giving your dogs chicken or you're giving your cats a chicken, turkey or any kind of poultry in itself. And that's becoming an issue. So what do we do, we have to find an alternative protein and some dogs are so allergic and cats, for that matter allergic to all kinds of protein, all kinds of things, even environmental. So we need to find out how are we going to be able to supplement this? And where are we going to supplement it from? And that's where this conversation will now mutate into something very interesting. So that's kind of in a nutshell how I see it. I agree with you. But from the science that I have read about, it's when people feed the same protein every single day. It's not so much of an allergy as a food or protein intolerance. So if we rotate our pets’ proteins, they have a better chance, I think of not having those intolerances. And it's actually good to have a variety just like us, because dogs need certain amino acids in their diet and rotating the protein sources will give them that better nutrition of amino acids. And that's my opinion. I can't disagree with that. You're completely right. Okay. Well, I think other reasons why we're seeing more novel proteins in specifically dog food is you know, the, the humanization of our pets, you know, people are realizing we want to eat better, and they should eat better as well. Functional nutrition. You know, people are hiring nutritionists, and it's all about food as medicine and people are getting smarter. And to your point earlier, we talked about sustainability. And that is huge. And one of the main reasons we're going to be seeing different proteins offered. So before we get into the different proteins that we're going to be seeing on the market. I have to ask you first, do you think dogs are carnivores or omnivores? Good question. So they are actually omnivores. Dogs are omnivores and having a plant base included into their meat based diet is very vital to their growth and their life. Okay, so can they thrive on a vegan diet? No. Okay, I agree with you there. I'm not even I'm not even gonna give an another alternative of why this won’t work. No. Vegan diet is completely not possible for a dog. I know that there is a lot of studies out there that stipulate that it could work. There is just too much within a dog’s mechanical structure that would actually need to have that meat base. The beginning part is that dogs they come from the wolf family, and you never found any wolves in the wild with a salad. Now, when you would see a wolf or even a dog or a cat, when they hunt their prey, a lot of times they're going to hunt rabbit, when they're eating that rabbit right in that stomach is going to be a plant base. And that right there is why dogs explicitly are omnivores. And even cats. If you look at a cat, there is still some areas of a cat where there would cat that minute amount of thriving off of a little bit of a kind of a plant based diet, but very small compared to what you'd want to put in your dog's bowl. Right. I agree. Why do dogs need protein? Why is it such an important nutrient? Well, I mean, the easiest part is, I guess I can break it up into multiple different things. Why does a car need oil? Why does a house need plumbing, it's what makes it work. Without you would have a car that wouldn't run, you would have a house that would have outdoor plumbing, it would not be really functional, which may have worked, you know, decades ago. It doesn't work these days. Dogs actually need it for multiple different reasons. You know, when you think about it, that meat has just so many different vitamins, minerals and proteins within it, these different things are going to help with the longevity of life, the blood flow, that would help with the muscular continued growth and not deterioration. Same thing with cerebral growth. So you want to see that your dog is continuously processing at a high function. So with diet, that is the biggest part of every dog, if your dog is lethargic, and isn't able to really function well does not take good commands. Even has any kind of behavioral problems. These could stem very much from a nutritional deficiency also could be part of a thyroid issue as well. But if your dog has different issues when it comes to processing, simple commands, it very well could just from the nutritional side. So to the point nutrition and the right part of being able to eat the right stuff is what will get them to go. That's why I use the analogy of why does the car need oil? That's a good one. And specifically protein, as you mentioned, it helps build and repair muscle tissue. But it also helps with so many other important roles like managing hormones and enzymes, and helping to keep the immune system strong. We've talked about that on the Show repeatedly that over 80% of our immune system is in the gut. So protein is a vital nutrient that dogs need. And back to those amino acids. There are 10 amino acids that are essential for dogs and essential means that their body is unable to produce it or can't produce enough of it to support normal function. So they have to get it through diet or supplementation. So, that is one of the reasons why protein is so important, but not only protein but high quality, high biological valued protein, bioavailable protein. So before we get into the alternative protein sources, we are going to take a quick commercial break. We'll be right back. We are so grateful to the Original Mine Pet Platter for sponsoring this episode. 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Welcome back, everybody, we are speaking with Chris Green about holistic alternative protein sources. Chris, this is just amazing. And we've only scratched the surface. So let's get right into what are some other proteins that are either on the market now, or that we're going to see as alternatives to animal proteins that we're used to? Well, you know, this is the interesting part is that I feel like the next alternative that we're gonna see, and we're starting to see a little bit of it, but just in a very minute amount, that I think we're gonna start to see an insect based diet that's going to be taking over pet food. Now, of course, raw feeding is is definitely the desired choice I would have when it comes to diet. But as you mentioned in the first part, what's going to happen if proteins are not available or vastly, you know, going to go away. So when we think about it, you know, in the US, we don't really look at bugs as anything besides a nuisance. And in other parts of the world, this is something that is their thriving grace, you think it's ethnic, it's part of their life. You think of places like Asia, you think of Africa, even just down in Mexico, it greatly used South America. And the next part of it is going to be what is going to be cost efficient, eco efficient, and sustainable? And that's where this is going to be where insects are going to probably work out as a cheap alternative with a demand. And when you think there's about 130 countries out there with over 2000 different species of insects people are consuming. That's gonna be the the next big thing that we're seeing now, which is crickets. Yep. And the good thing about insects is they reproduce in great numbers. They have high nutritional quality with very low water and land needs. And I was surprised when I looked this up that crickets have more protein than beef. They have great omegas and they even have fiber. So that's amazing. All right, so we have insects. What else? Well, actually, I want to go back on to the cricket one, because that's the big one right here. So did you know that crickets are actually a crustacean? I did not. So for anybody who actually has a shellfish allergy, like I do, I can't eat anything. That's shellfish. So therefore, if anything, and you'll see this actually, in different restaurants where people are doing this at home, they're making breads with cricket powder, which what it is, is that it's ground up cricket, and they put it in their bread, which, for humans actually has a great deal of benefits, as you had mentioned with all of their vitamins, minerals, and nutrients. But if you actually have an allergy to shellfish, you can't eat it. Now, I could put this in my dog's food, but I could never eat it myself. Yeah, I never knew they were crustaceans. So that's interesting. And in case anybody is wondering, you know, how do you kill the crickets? Well, it's actually very humane, because they live about 80% of their natural life. And then they go into hibernation, and that's when they are harvested when they're in hibernation. So it's not cruel, but a great nutritional source. So that's a good one. What else do we have? I've been really kicking the rock around really mostly on the fact of insects because of what we would actually be able to gain with them. That's, that's been my biggest thing for the longest time now. And it was kind of funny, few years ago. Dr. Coger, had been on the original podcast multiple times. And she would always kind of laugh at me over this because when you think about it, like another interesting And I find this to be a very interesting bug the black soldier fly. Their Larva is just astounding on how much protein, vitamins and minerals they have. We have flesh flies. You have and this is a weird one. And I don't even know how they are able to harvest this. But and bear with this, I know this is gonna sound strange. But the lactating cockroach, the actual lactation is very hot, it's off the chart as a superfood. So it's really strange on all these interesting insects that are being farmed in very small little areas, and all over the world, not not just you know, in Europe, but in Canada as well. These are become big things. And in our country, I've noticed that the black soldier fly that has become this mega star of additional protein. And you think to yourself, why are these becoming a thing? And that was where you and I started discussing this going, Why is there such a want for bugs? And why is this such a thing? Why are people wanting to actually farm. But when you think about it, one corporate office, you know, you think about a big city, you think about those days 30-40 story buildings, one just floor can have a farm that's going to literally feed 1000s and 1000s of humans, and think about how many dogs or cats that would be able to actually feed. So it's just astounding, and the water that they take for to actually work a farm of an insect farm does not take much at all. When you think about a regular farm takes up a lot of space, takes up a lot of water puts in a lot of different things into the ground. It does have the questionable is this sustainable and economical? And even big pet food is starting to look at this, which that alone scares me. Because I don't want to see them do that. Because if you cook it, like they do everything else and they render it. How much is there going to be of those mega high vitamins, minerals, and protein? How much is going to just go out the door by being super cooked? Yeah, good point. Well, in addition to insects, I know other alternative protein sources. I know yeast, that many pet food companies are looking at yeast because it does have a high source of protein. It has amino acids, the vitamins, the beta glucans. I recently did an interview with Bond Pet Foods. And they are actually coming up with a protein rich pet food without the slaughter. And it's amazing. They're using a fermentation process, just like beer or cheese making. And they're taking the DNA from one healthy chicken who's still alive and happy. And making this protein in a lab, which is identical to the original chicken protein. Another one is fungi. So Wild Earth is in California. And they are making dog food out of human grade Koji, which is a Asian protein member of the fungi Kingdom. It contains all 10 of the amino acids that are essential for dogs. And they also were using a fermentation process. So it's just amazing. You know, when we think about it, how we can save the planet and feed ourselves and our pets. You know, I was waiting, I was gonna see if you would actually bring it up because there was one other thought process as well. And it's more of a supplement. But it's also really good for our dogs, which is seaweed. Seaweed is really good and contains just so much nutrients that contain the proteins, the iron, the iodine, the magnesium, Omega three. And these are things that you just don't think about. I mean, obviously I live now in a landlocked state. So the word seaweed in this area is like we don't have an ocean, right? But there are seaweed farms out there that are just producing seaweed. I mean, it's a strange concept, But this is where we're going, we're going to see. And for me, I mean, I love the fact of coming up with things, you know, within labs and stuff like that. I also know that there's a lot of people out there that want to have that straight from the earth natural kind of thing, whether it's raised out of the womb of a calf and or cow to a calf, and then becomes, you know, beef, or it's some kind of plant based, rabbit, or whatever it is, people are going to still still want that earthy, real thing. And there is alternatives out there. Sometimes we have to do a lot of research, but there is a great deal that the earth is still making. And we're starting to realize it's good for us as humans, and really good for our pets. Absolutely. And I know Kangaroo is a sustainable protein, because in Australia, they are, you know, considered pests. They're everywhere. So there are companies using kangaroo meat, there's actually farm raised alligators that are being used in pet food. What are your thoughts on fish as a protein source? I mean, they’re so high and so many different vitamins, minerals, nutrients, but then again, you know, there's always going to be the question mark with fish. Because you have that, I want it I would love to not sound so hippie when I say it. But our oceans are contaminated and they are polluted. So we do have a lot of different areas. And that, that we have to kind of wonder about I mean, we we know as humans, there was mercury in some fish, and there was definitely some issues. But with a dog, or even a cat, you know, you think about how their stomachs are operating. And with those acids that they have, it does break it down a lot easier than you and I same thing is when you and I we could never induce anything that had salmonella, Listeria Ecoli , where a dog with a healthy immune system and a cat, they can. They're built for that the only way that they cannot, and there is no way that anybody can, can talk me off this one. If a dog or cat has a healthy stomach, they can induce it. The only way that they're ever going to be compromised any of the is if they have a compromised immune system. And that's the only way. Whenever I see these recalls for ecoli. Listeria, it just kind of makes me laugh because it's not for our dogs and cats. It's there. That recall. is for humans, saying that we're unable to just manage our own self, which is why raw feeding gets such a bad rap. It's not the dogs or cats. It's really just afraid that people can handle it. And I'll be honest, my daughter at the age of six was able to get our dog's food bowl. And we used raw food. She never once had listeria, Ecoli. she never had any of these because of proper hand washing and the right way of handling it and my dogs thrive. Yep, I agree. I'm a raw feeder as well. Well, Chris, as we are wrapping up, I think one of the protein sources that we have not mentioned, which I think has been toted the world's perfect protein, are eggs. Yeah, good for ourselves, great for our dogs. I mean, my dog loves raw, boiled, scrambled, fried, what have you. So don't forget about that everybody that eggs are a great protein source. And one more thing before we wrap up here. Do you agree, Chris, that senior dogs actually need more high quality protein, than you know what they ate in their younger years? Do you agree with that? I do. When you think about it, what do we do with our kids? We give them vitamins that are extra with calcium and different things so that their bones stay healthy, they're able to develop and the same thing goes as we get old, we end up taking some vitamins. So of course the nutrients, the vitamins, all that we're doing for older dogs is essential. So very much I very much agree that we need to be cognizant and aware that our senior dogs need more. Yep, I agree. Well, Chris, where can everyone find out more information about you? And Your radio show that you mentioned Pawsitive Variety Show? Well, that’s just it. So I do the Flea Circus every Friday right in mid Missouri. It's our local radio show that we do right here. Now all those episodes, I put them on the website that I created because as you know, Krista, I had a show called The Flea Circus is my current show, the Groomer Next Door. I'm so used to saying the Flea Circus, the Groomer Next Door podcast. So I put everything on Www.pawsitivevarietyshow.com. And that's pawsitive, as in PAW positive variety. show.com. And that's where you will be able to hear every episode. I hate to say it, but there's like 400 and something episodes all together over the years, I think 300 almost of the original over 100 of the new one. So yeah, there's a lot of content in there. And we've had everybody from Dr. Karen Becker and Rodney Habib to startup companies, and some of the most interesting people that you probably really love. And like the Two Crazy Cat Ladies before anybody knew they existed. So way, way back. Facebook (currently) @Pawsitivevarietyshow That is awesome. Well, I encourage everybody to check it out again, that Www.pawsitivevarietyshow.com. And I will put the link in the show notes as well. Chris, I am so excited that we finally had this interview. We've been talking about it for about a year now, as you mentioned. So we really appreciate your time. And it'll be interesting to see, you know what happens to protein sources here in the coming year to 10 years. I'm very excited to see where we go from here. Well, thank you for letting me be on your show. It's really cool to be on this side of the microphone. Thank you for letting me sit over here. Thank you for sharing, Chris, we appreciate you. Thank you. Thanks again to the team at The Original Mine Pet Platter for sponsoring this episode.  Check out the ultimate mealware for all dog foods by going to https://minepetplatter.com/and be sure to use the code WOL10 for 10% off! Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode?