Retired Intelligence Unit detective Gary Jenkins interviews Andrew DiDonato, a former mafia associate of the Gambino crew that Nicky Corazzo skippered. Andrew tells how Corazzo took him in and groomed him to be a part of his crew and how he made money for the Gambino family. He learned the hard way that there is no real honor in the mafia, only greed. As he brought in guys from other families and created a bank robbery crew, Corazzo became jealous and wanted more money and more money while Drew took all the risks. He describes a successful bank robbery in great detail.

Andrew DiDonato and his co-author Denny GFriffin released a popular book about his exploits. Click here to get Surviving the Mob: A Street Soldier’s Life inside the Gambino Crime Family.

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Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS money, knew, bags, life, lawyer, run, people, kill, friend, bank robbery, pinched, gary, day, put, nicky, street, lived, problems, location, years SPEAKERS GARY JENKINS, Andrew DiDonardo

00:00 Hey all you wiretappers out there back here in the studio gangland wire. Nice sunny day here in Kansas City. This is the second of a two part episode with Andrew D DiDonato. A Gambino family Nicky Corazzo crew associate and in this he tells about, a litle bit about his life getting into the Mob, how they recruited him how they groomed him. He tells in great detail, you got to wait a little bit for it stick with it about doing a big bank robbery, which is really interesting. Now he did it. Then it ends up down about how he ended up going into witness protection. Actually, he never went into witness protection. He lived in New York as you see him on Facebook every once awhile, I think he if you remember from the last episode, he was talking about being in the car business, I think he’s in the car business, I need to get ahold of him and see how he’s doing and what’s going on with it was really a good guy. I really liked talking to him and would mind talking to him to get an update on what’s going on. You know, he was involved with Nicky Corazzo in that crew during the time when Michael DiLeonardo ends up coming in and and he knew about that whole deal where John Gotti Jr. was gonna try to kill or actually was only gonna have him beat up and then the guy tried to kill him, Curtis Sliwa. And so he was real close to all those guys that were close to God. And he was. I mean, he was in there and he was a moneymaker for him. And he got tired of being, you know, the guy that made all the money. And while they got all the gravy, and he took all the risk at the end, which is the way it is in the mob, listen to this and bear with it, especially if you want to hear about that armed robbery because it’s a great story. And he’s a good storyteller. As you know, if you’ve listened to that last one. You haven’t listened to the one I put that before, go back and find it. And it’s just like a couple of weeks ago, I’m gonna put this up right away. Listen, guys, it’s a good one. It really is no Ilana, there’s no Ilana, these guys were robbed everyone, mothers with the lights off, there’s money on the table. There’s no honor here. That’s a fabricated thing. It’s a fabricated thing to brainwash young guys like me to think that when they’re out there doing these things, justified in their actions. For many years, I carried myself again, I was part of this honor system, I was wanted to be a man of respect, there is none. The end of the day when you realize who you want, you look in the mirror, and I’m a grown man. And I realized that no one I am a criminal, plain and simple. In New York, it was a little bit different. I never had a friend of mine on had any sort of knowledge about a guy having a judge. I did know that a few times, you know, Jehovah’s were paid jurors were gotten to, you know, and that would happen in any big case, you know, witnesses were tampered with, you know, I myself, and we were witnesses in somebody’s case to try to deter them from, you know, pointing people out in a lineup or doing something like that, or in this case, we know of a case, the first case that Nikki was on, it got pinched in 1987. And it was Nicky, John. Lenny, was a few other guys, Tony Lee, I forget there was a few guys on trial back then. Back in 87, Sammy Gravano was the one who found the juror, and the juror happened to be a relative to an Albanian guy, they were able to give the guy 60,000. And that’s how they beat the first trial back in 87. Really? So New York, it was a little bit different. It was more about the intimidation of the witnesses as opposed to having to court people in your pocket. No, because in New York, it seemed like those people in Chicago they had that political system wired in Chicago. I didn’t I never knew about New York. And there’s a certain amount of corruption in any large city. But it doesn’t sound like you. Yeah, none of my ever though. Not none of my ever, Gary. And not in my area, like in the eighth. Like, I remember I was in the street from early, early 1980s, like 8182, all the way up until the late 90s until I got locked up on my second case and went away. So during that time period, that’s when the FBI and the government was putting a target on organized crime. Yeah, so there was it was no room for corruption, then back then there was just an all out assault on organized crime back then. It was so it was a big difference. You know, Rudolph Giuliani was that prosecutor in the early 80s. Friends of mine were now going away when going away it was never ever even spoken about. These guys were never getting the time that they would want get for the same crime. And that’s what they did. They stepped up all of these protocols on the federal guidelines were years ago, before this ice would do not even a third of what they’re trying to give you on the first number. Now they’ve given football numbers 30 years 40 years to start. Guys are, they are shutting guys lights out with 100 year sentences or whatever. And at the end of the day, I mean, that’s what’s happening today. You see guys are gonna go to jail for 100 years knowing that you’re expendable knowing that you know these guys are feeding you a lie. It really isn’t honor there is no honor. These guys were robbed everyone. Even their own mother’s with thier lights off.

05:00 When there’s money on the table. There’s no honor here. That’s a fabricated thing. It’s a fabricated thing to brainwash young guys like me to think that when they’re out there doing these things, they’re justified in their actions. For many years, I carried myself it can I was part of this honor system, I was wanting to be a man of respect, there is none. The end of the day when you realize who you want, you look in the mirror, and I’m a grown man. And I realized that no one I am a criminal, plain and simple. I’m not this honorable character that you see on TV, or what they portray in the movies. I’m a guy who’s told to do something, and I’m going to do it. And I’m only going to do it because it’s self preservation. My boss tells me to do this. It’s done. You could be the nicest guy in the world. But if my boss tells me, rake your arms and your legs, I’m breaking your arms and your legs because I know if I don’t, I’m the guy you’re going to see with his arms and legs broken. How did you first learn you were become an expendable, Andrew went to prison, on my first case, and a five to 15 year sentence was that on a bank robbery, no, that was on an attempted murder charge. Oh, I shot somebody. And I was away on that case. And on that case, my wife at the time was on welfare, Gary, my friends is stealing on the street, my wife’s on welfare, my friends came to see me maybe once or twice a year, first year, maybe once, twice a year, the second year, third year, I don’t even think I got to visit, I used to get a Christmas card every year, guys in the crew with sided, they at least you knew they cared about the guys that were away. But now maybe the gene pool changed or the way a life change, or I understand being industry, it is difficult. I’ve been in the street my whole life. So maybe you just get distracted from being in the street and you’re worried about your own problems. You’re worried about your friendships and your stuff. When those guys get out of prison, I understand that. But at the end of the day, when guys are swallowing sentences, and you expect loyalty and you expect this guy to give something back, that’s what organized crime is having the guys at the top just take and take and take they don’t share. The only time you get to share in those prizes is if you get to those positions. Other than that, you’re just going to keep on shoveling money to them. And you’re expendable. Every venture, you’re expendable guys are fighting for their lives. They’re away doing those life sentences, 20 years, 30 years, no what’s happening, Gary? Nothing. There a way it might get comments every and every now and then. It depends what kind of crew you get. It depends what kind of friendships you’ve got. Because that’s also and also plays into it. But for the most part, your wife is going to be on welfare. If you don’t have a pocket fold when you go away, where your wife can hold on to that money you’re in for a long ride you really are. And that’s definitely the myth. You keep your mouth shut, this is going to happen. And it doesn’t these days, you know what they do when you go away? Not only don’t they take care of you, but these guys try to sleep with your wife when you’re cold. That’s how we’ve changed over the years. So gene pool you’re pulling from these days. Listen, if you’re still in the street, you’re still stealing. You’re still doing these things in 2017 You got to be I don’t even know what to say. Because if you didn’t learn from the years and years of all the guys before you who would you might think were successful all the guys you think who weren’t. You take the most successful organized crime figures you could think of think about where they are write them down on a piece of paper. And you tell me where they’re either in St. John cemetery and queens, they die with a with a gun in their hand. They died from a gun pulled out of a prison somewhere. And they died of old age. And that’s what a rotted away from is those success stories. Actually, there’s no success stories is no guy who, who did it all. And he lived to spend his money. And he lived to do this. Maybe one out of every 10,000 the other guys suffer their family suffer. Go to my old neighbor where I lived, and neighborhoods filled with single mothers at the husbands had never come at home. That’s the reality of it. But these guys tell you what they want. You know, they’re going to try to make out the stories to be actionable or make them out to be honorable stories or whatever. But at the end of the day, it’s a dirty, dirty life. A dirty life. I served or years went on the work release program for the last, I want to say 10 months, nine months, but I was still incarcerated. I had to sleep in the facility twice a week. I did that. And I didn’t skip a beat guys. I was home 24 hours I was already robbing and stealing so as I got let out my job was a no show job and have to beat if my parole officer showed up at the job they would call me I would zoom to the location make like I was doing something come up and I’d be done. I was stealing from the minute I got out, you know because that’s the life you know, you belong to these people once you are back in action, and they use you again for what you’re good at doing whatever it may be because you used spend all your money on lawyer fees. And if you have a family, your money’s got to go to taking care of your family while you’re away. But your money is done. It’s going to be depleted. So if you go to trial, I went to trial on my case. So I went, I went for some money, and you got to survive week by week incarcerated and like you’re gonna get a job there while you’re incarcerated where you can be making money to take care of yourself. So money goes to them money goes to your family, your family’s got to eat so when you come home, you’re not going to have much you’re gonna have to start from scratch again. So it’s just about no starting over. I had guys from the Colombo Family Guy from the Lucchese Family Guy from the Genovese family and I came home they all came to see me we went out to dinner we did this and that every single one of them is me on up money his 500 is 1000 is 10 5000. pimped out whatever it may be, not my boss gave nothing biggest goal we ever had we robbed a we robbed the bank in I want to say a singles tournament now up in New Jersey, we got to have a million dollars. Wow. And I made it that I’m Nikki had just got pinched. You got pinched, redone. Within three months of that crime. He got pinched. I had some other issues. I was on the run at that time. When I committed that robbery. I was already on the run from law enforcement. Right committed that bank robbery when I was a fugitive from justice. Oh, wow. So I had a lot of problems. And I had the I had the FBI looking for me. And New York State, least looking for me had to pull the palm and looking for me. I had a beef with two other client families. You know, my life was my life was definitely in the balance at the time. That’s why I was living moment by moment, not day by day. That’s that’s what we call spinning out of control, I think describe describe that robbery that sounds like it might be an interesting one. The robbery in itself went off like this. Gary, one of our crew members in the bank robbery crew, who lived not even three minutes from the location, him and his wife lived in an elderly community. If they are older or 65 or older, whatever it was, he would frequently bank in his location. He’s an old school bank robber on a specific day when he would get his checks or whatever it is that he had to do banking, when he would notice that when the Brinks truck came, they would put the bags behind. The tellers were the partition right behind them. And if the tellers were busy, it wouldn’t get to the bags until it were free to do so. And they would take those bags in the back load the ATMs or whatever else that they did. And he said that he noticed that, but they had to cash a check. There was a holiday weekend and he noticed that there was double the amount of bags. That was previously we weren’t there. One night, we looked at the location. We had lunch at a diner down the street the following day. We seen the truck on the path. We followed the truck to the location seen them drop made sure we seen all the moves. Now you want to make sure that the truck drivers not GI Joe, he’s not going to get out. No, he’s making 10 $12 An hour and this guy thinks he’s in Afghanistan. You don’t want that. You want a guy who’s a little bit more old a little bit more extra days ago. That’s when he is on the job. You know he’s set in his ways to him not even money anymore. He’s just moving product. Those are the guys who are looking for Yeah, really anyway, these guys seem to be these guys seem to beyond the job. We’ve seen them do the same thing. We knew we had a score. We know it was a done deal. The next week was going to be the Labor Day weekend. We knew that they were going to get an early delivery on the Thursday before Labor Day weekend. During that time period. They put double the amount of money in the ATM machines because they have that much more of an influx of business. During those four days span. What we do is we go to the location early in the morning I friend as it’s called we doctor up the license plate with tape we change the license plate number we get into the vehicle we got to crash guy across the street we got our scanners. I put a bulletproof vest on a gear, got a baseball hat Sunglasses, I got clear gloves on my hands. We pull up into the back and I walk in our was planned that I was going to walk in don’t talk to nobody don’t do nothing so that they drop off the money and that guy that driver gets back in his truck. I walk in it goes off without a hitch they come they empty the truck they put the money on handcart. They go in it put the money exactly where my friend said it would be it was the guy gets in a truck I walk into the bank I walk in I walked on my head straight I don’t look left don’t look right I am I on the target. I hit the count of you but whatever. My other friend walks in two minutes later, he’s my backup. I got no gun I got no nothing. I’m there strictly for the money. Everybody’s in shock. I jumped over I pulled the first two bags now remember. The bags are put in like an electric blue grab bag. They’re about knee high. A little more than knee high guy put the first bag on the counter Ella to bag all of a sudden a Good Samaritan comes running from the other side of the bank towards me not knowing that this other guy is with me. As soon as he gets even remotely close to me. The guy grabs him and throws him across the bank floor. Everybody else was in shock we take I believe it was four bags and total we take the bags to and to walk out some other woman is walking in the bank. She sees us walking towards her. She starts screaming and she runs out and breathe in and out over the scanner when the call goes through. I come out after her. So whoever the witnesses were outside that a man and a woman robbed the bankruptcy scene have run into the car first. I go around the back of the bank, I put the bags in the trunk. My friend drives away. He looks like a grandfather’s grandfather. So it took us about it took us about a minute to get to his house. We hear on the scanner that they pulled over this woman, they’re going to take us to the police barracks in New Jersey and is setting up roadblocks. We’re already at our destination. We’re good. I get in the house. I go into the bedroom, I take all my clothes off. I go into the shower, I shower, put all my all the clothes on the robbery in a garbage bag. I shave I put new clothes on I come back out. My friend’s wife went out she went and bought food. We’re gonna stay in the house. A good ice six hours, but you’re till everything is good. We turn on the local news. Local news has the bank robbery roped off receipt on the afternoon news, we’re listening to it. We got it all over the scan is my friend goes out to you brings the bags and we cut the bags open. The first three bags will fill with money for bag was so well received. We thought the fourth bag had money in it. I was out it had receipts in it make a long story short, we count the money. I think we get 480 Almost almost 500 altogether 484 Something something like that. We do the cut right there. I take my money, I put it in a gym bag. Everybody takes their money. They go do what they got to do with it. We have a plan. We’re going to meet that night and go have dinner and we’ll discuss the cut with all our bosses and whatever we’re going to do then I didn’t want to be in the car with money. So we took all the money from all our corporate in one of the vehicles. We had one person drive that vehicle into Staten Island, I drove my friend’s wife alone. Being that I was the upfront guy. We knew they would look for me the most so I was away from the money whatever we got to Staten Island, they dropped me off of my my place got my money I went about my business everybody went their own way to go to bury their money wherever they’re gonna go bury it will meet that night for dinner. And that’s how that ended. And then what happened was they had a particular reward for us my friends see the reward, if any information about the bank robbery and it went off without a hitch everything everything was cool with that that was a successful bank robbery. Nobody got hurt nobody and that’s the way you want to Gary, you know, we’re there for money. We’re not there to hurt nobody. We’re not there for whatever we had. I’ll tell you one thing gara we had one plan in place. And this was what it was forever in a police pursuit. It had to be 3 million or better for us to have a shootout with the police and go all out. It’s not 3 million or better. We give it up. Now was it well run? We’ll try to get away don’t get don’t get me wrong. Yeah, we’re trying to get away. But we’re not going to be in a shootout but 3 million a better for streaming and a better we’re going all out. We’re going to hold court right there in the street and let the chips fall where they may. That was the game plan. And between me and a Betta we’re going to be an after TV, you know, a TV movie, we’re going all out. We knew that was going to be a few 100,000 in the bed. We didn’t believe that it was going to be multi-millions. You know, if you get lucky you get lucky as we call it a score because you never know the exact thing. When you’re doing all your reconnaissance work or you know, you’re sitting on the score. Pretty much you got an idea what you’re going to be walking into. We had a clock for a few 100,000. And we were right now getting back. You’re like out here you’re on the lam. You’re doing bank robberies, and Nikki’s in trouble. He’s, he’s, he’s in trouble. He gets pinched in Florida at the time. My friend Robert was murdered the winter before the score. That’s what I just told you about. He was killed the winter before I was on the run from the parole department because they were going to question me about that. And some other I was doing so many things, Gary, that I didn’t know what it was all the alarm bells were going off that it was going to be about this. Now. You know, this is a law enforcement guy that they have you on the suspicion of anything, it can take it take your parole away from you and hold you for like a 90 day period until they do an investigation or even hold you longer. You don’t have to know your award or the state. They don’t have to tell you anything. They could just lock you up no probable cause I was doing so good. So I was making all this money. I wasn’t about to give that up. I was like no. And I said Gary, I said let them earn their money. Let them catch me. That’s what I said. That was my mindset that these guys are in their paychecks and come and get me. Right and simple. I had my lawyer call up the parole officer to x with the with the detectives were doing that. He said nobody was here for him. We don’t know what you’re talking about. So my lawyer who was Nicky Corazzo’s nephew, Jo Jo at the time. So Joe, Joe told him, he says, If you’re going to tell me fairy tales, find them yourself. Have a good day. I was on the run. From that moment on, Nicky was locked up and we will we were getting bombarded. We will get bombarded with the legal problems and they caught me in 97 nearly 97 I remember what the guy said when he caught me he was like, Oh, we got you now we got everybody I was at I was the last guy that they were looking for that he could find flowers. My crew when Nicky was pinched Lenny was pinched was a few other guys that were pension. And then that was it. And I was like well, whatever, you know, what do you got to do it? I got you. It’s over. It’s done. And I was kinda relieved. Yeah, you know why? Because there’s so many problems in the street. And anybody who’s been on the run knows that that kind of stress could kill an elephant. I mean that the stress from being on the run is like, the worst feeling in the world. I think I told another reporter one day, I told him, I said, take your most stressful moments you’ve ever had in your life, times that by 10,000. And that’s one day on the run. And that’s every minute of every waking hour of every day, you’ve got that twist, and you’re waiting for the shoe to drop, waiting for the shoe to drop. And it’s simple. That would be title. I was fortunate enough in my life, Gary, where I made lemonade out of lemons, I had some fun. I have some sometimes that I could sit here and laugh about. But you need that kind of levity in your life to survive those hardships. And even on the run, you will say, how was it? Well, sometimes it was funny as hell, you know, sometimes, you would just find yourself in the artists situations, you know, and the times when you live for the times that gets you by like even when you’re incarcerated. I had fun with my friends, because I was with similar guys with my situation, guys from different crime families when I was away, we would laugh sometimes for hours, you’re sitting there, not that I’m taking my situation lightly, or not having any remorse for my claims. Because if you don’t go insane, I didn’t start thinking for myself as Andrew DiDonardo. Until the day I started cooperating with the government. And everybody thinks that that decision came lightly. There were days I hated myself never thinking that I did the right thing. But now as the years go on, and awkward so much time has passed, I realized that there would have been so much more in my life, most of it there woman friends, is no friends in that life. Carrier my neighborhood, you can kill your best friend. And it’s accepted behavior. Don’t you dare tell on him. Tell me that’s not the sickest thing that you could think about. It’s okay to kill him. But you can’t tell on him. Yeah, well, you know, a lot of people who call me this call me that. But at the end of the day, a we’re gonna put me in a box. Right. So let’s let’s talk about the best tools. Well, I took the best tools that I had at my disposal. Now, note that was gearing up beat them with the truth, because the only thing I had on my side was I couldn’t do that war, I was involved in a ton of violence in my life. I was no stranger to it, you want to go in the street and you want to go you want to throw shots, let’s do it. I was the first one out the car that could win that battle, I was in a situation with a boss of the family was looking at me Good night. There’s no winning that, because there’s too many guys around you who you love and you trust, we’re going to be there to set you up only because they’re trying to get a leg up in that life. And prove to him that they could do these things is that you went on dates with step over the houses, aided at people close to them hung out with them, you know, two, three o’clock in the morning, they were ringing your doorbell when they were press and you were there in hand. These are the same guys that are going to put your lights out as organized crime right down in a nutshell. And and what happens when he tells you guys think of somebody you grew up with, think of a best friend you have, or somebody who means the world to you. And then they tell you to go on you go clip that guy because he did a B, C and D and you know what’s wrong? You know, you’re gonna hurt this guy for no other reason. Except that this guy is got a conflict of interest. Well, this guy in him a pot heads. This guy didn’t do nothing wrong. This guy might have been too good at his job. And this guy’s jealous over this guy just wants to take over his spots or his money. You know what’s wrong, you can’t say a word. Because then your next Nicki thought I was making this money with this robberies, and I was at the rug guys underneath me. And he didn’t think he was getting a full piece of the action is number one. Number two, you knows I had information about the robbing or even the homicide. That could put him right in the spotlight. When you have information about a boss, no matter how good you want to him. You can’t sleep at night knowing you know this, you understand. You could be the nicest guy in the world. He knows that someday that it might not be. He can’t take that chance. And it’s an old saying it’s always safer to send flowers that you send flowers. And now you don’t have to worry about that coming to bite you. In the Yes. Everybody in my crew knew it. Even the FBI knew what when they pinched me. They knew I was on an oxygen tank. They knew that these guys were going to kill me any day. They knew it. So if they know it was they were they woke up one day and they just got this information. They just the FBI just woke up knowing that I was on the hit parade. No, because it’s out there. People talk when they’re not supposed to. It’s just common knowledge. People talk about things every day where it was out there, and I wasn’t in good graces wouldn’t so be it. Would I have ever thought to do anything to hurt him? No, I would never or when I’m facing 5045 50 years. And I know that I’m going to come home to a bullet at the end of it. it well, they’re going to try to kill me while I’m incarcerated. All bets are off. Now, I’m protecting the same people that want to put me to sleep. I’m not justifying my actions. Because I grew up knowing the game. And in the game, I know you don’t do this. You got to eat your own arm. At least if I’m going to die, it’s going to be on my it’s going to be on my terms, nobody else’s. How they made their approach was when I get when I got locked up. They found me when they found me, they found me because I came in to see Nikki’s partner, Lenny, who I have the utmost respect for, I really do even to this day, man, he was one of my favorite people, was just a gregarious guy. Always, always smiling. Always. He was a nice guy to be around. He had a nice persona about him. You called me in for something. And I wanted to go and see him. He was out on bail on a case and I was on the run, Nicky was pinched already. I spoke to him. And the way that I got it from the agency is that they were watching him when they watched Him they got a line on me when I went to go and see them. And when they wanted to go and when when I left. And they got where I was staying. When they got where I was staying. They sat on the location for a number of days, it went to another location where they knew I would frequent and they will have surveillance on both locations. And they came they pinched me one morning. And then when they pinched me, they started talking about wanting to talk to me on that day. I stonewalled them, of course, because I did my regular thing. But then what happened was when I went to my arraignment, when I went to my arraignment, I knew I couldn’t get bail because had a parole hold. I knew I wasn’t getting out, I knew they were going to hold me and the lawyer that they bought for me was a guy and they didn’t. And when they broke the lawyer, Gary, the lawyer wasn’t because they were looking out for me. The lawyer was there because they was looking out for them. You understand the difference? Yeah, I get it put up there, put a lawyer there, see what the charges were. Because they knew that I was under suspicion of the double homicide. And they wanted to see if I got charged with it. And they wanted to see what the charges were going to be. And if it was no record related, or anything that I had to do with them. So the lawyer was there for that purpose and that purpose only and I just didn’t like the whole feel of it. So I told the lawyer said, Listen, you know here, he’s actually not that nice if they’re gonna remind me no matter what you can’t do not for me, if I’m going to use a lawyer, it’s going to be Jojo. Anyway, I’m gonna use Georgia Law column when I get back inside when I was in the Brooklyn house of detention at the time. The feds came two days later, and they re arrested me for federal charges. And when they re arrested me, it took me in. And then that’s when they discussed with me about my life being in danger. You know what, and I know what they said you know, you’re getting clipped. We know you’re getting if we know you’re getting clipped, and you don’t know it yet, you’re the only guy who would have no it. No, all the lights bulbs are going off in my head. I gotta be somebody I was born to hate me. I was born hate the person that I had to be. And, you know, it’s goes against every instinct that you have, what are my options, these guys are going to kill me whatever chance they get whenever they get that chance. It’s common. I’m not proud of it. I’m definitely not proud of it. I’m not proud of any of the criminal activity I was involved in. I made a phone call. And I made the arrangement and it happened. And the rest is history. And here I am today but you know what? I got to do something I never did. I got to spend time with my family. I never spend time with my family me giving you family money because being a man I missed the best years of my son growing up and these are things that you know the collateral damage around you now it was time to be that person to start to do what was right for me and maybe live out to my potential and stuff like that. It had nothing to do with jail time I’ve been in jail my whole life. It had nothing to do with not wanting to go to jail more my friends were in jail and out of jail the whole idea was to go to jail for them no one that might wipe was a welfare the first time now they’re looking to kill me the second time how many times we’re going to kick myself and yes, basically that’s it now here I am talking to you. That’s taken loyalty a little bit too far, I think. But yeah, and then and I was that guy I was that guy I ate bread that guy that was me know, I see all these people with these box shows and all this thing or whatever. And you know, it’s very easy to judge a person to go through these things until you’re affected in the same way. And you deal with the ugly side of that life. Yeah, you’re just because you’re good at what you do Gary, and you report all your money and you do all these things that doesn’t grant you safe passage in this life guys get killed for being too good at what they do. And a jealousy and event V you’re dealing with the most ruthless people in the world. Everybody starts to lose track of that because they watched too much TV and they watched too much glorification with your with the scum of the earth. And I was I was no different. Believe me, I’m no better. You’re on a different set. You’re on a different path now. Sounds I’m definitely going a different path. Brother, I do all the things I know. I don’t happy. I don’t think you’re doing the things that you used to do. If you did, you wouldn’t be there just stories that we tell. Yeah, well, what I do is I just take all the precautions that I did when I was in the street because they want to be dead, then they want to be dead. Now there’s no different levels of debt. So I take the same precautions I always did. I carry myself in the same fashion. I always know that someday my paths can catch up with me. And when it does, Gary, I’m going to do what I always did. And I’m going to die like a man that day, whatever it may be, and we’re going to do what we need to do. I don’t want it to happen. I don’t wish it to happen. But that’s the only day that I would ever break the law again. And that is to protect my loved ones to protect myself, and then let the chips fall where they may. And I’m not trying to be tough here. I’m just saying that’s the way it is. Yeah, you’re a gentleman whenever you want to speak I’ll speak to you anytime it was good to talk to you at this land you’re doing well. I’m glad you’re doing well and right and if this guy grabbed you very much faster. Do you have grandkids? As a matter of fact, I wish I guess I wish by Not yet Not that I know of yet. And All right, so we’ll let you get on one let you get on about your business and I appreciate it. If there’s ever anything I can do for you don’t hesitate to get ahold of me and you I will serve our members to be copied. I would love to hear it I will What I’ll do is

31:30 when I put it up and then I’ll send you a link and you can download it then you can have your own copy of it. How about that all my best to you when your family guys happy holiday be safe. Okay, you show you a good new year with all the health in the world. Okay, you too. That was a good one. One that guys. Now, don’t forget, if you’ve got a problem with PTSD, you need to go to the VA website if you were in the service or you know somebody was because they have a hotline and a lot of help available for the PTSD. If you have a problem with drugs or alcohol, our good friend Anthony ruggiano has a hotline number and his website and I’ve got that up here and then the YouTube so don’t forget to like and subscribe and click also my other ones and if you’re on the audio, you know give me a review and and all that kind of stuff. You know, I don’t know just listen, I have a good time doing it. I hope you guys have a good time. Listen. Thanks a lot guys.

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