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Submit ReviewRetired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. Marshall Caifano was a dangerous yet unassuming figure from Chicago’s mob scene. Background of Marshall Caifano: Caifano, a physically small but influential figure in the Chicago outfit, was brought up by Paul Ricca, a key behind-the-scenes figure in the outfit. Unlike the loud and flashy mobsters, Caifano operated quietly, focusing on strategic connections and criminal activities. Caifano’s Activities: Caifano was known for his involvement in various criminal activities, including the murder of mobster Bugsy Siegel in Los Angeles, which paved the way for the Chicago outfit to take over Las Vegas. He was also implicated in several other murders and extortion attempts. Caifano’s Style: Despite his criminal activities, Caifano maintained a low profile, appearing well-dressed and unassuming. He was known for his intelligence and ability to stay out of the spotlight, unlike other more flamboyant mobsters. Conclusion: Caifano’s story illustrates the complex and dangerous world of organized crime, where individuals like him operated in the shadows, wielding significant influence. His life and activities shed light on the inner workings of the Chicago outfit and its impact on various criminal enterprises.
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Transcript: Marshall Caifano [00:00:00] Gary Jenkins: well, hey, all you wiretappers out there back here in studio gangland wire. This is Gary Jenkins, retired Kansas City police intelligence detective. I worked a mob for 14 years altogether here in Kansas City from here to really to Las Vegas. We helped uncover the scheme and, you know, reached out to Chicago and Milwaukee and Cleveland. Anyhow. I’ve been telling these mob stories for a few years now in the podcast. Here’s another one. Kind of a short little story about a very unassuming but very dangerous little guy named Marshalll Caifano. from Chicago. Now, Marshall Caifano, I know that Red knew him and knows a lot about him. So you might want to check out Red Wemette channel or the Las Vegas blog, my blog with Adam Flowers. They may have a whole story on Marshall Caifano. This is kind of a short little story about him. He was a little guy.[00:01:00] And when he got old, I remember I ran into a couple of these mob guys, really old guys, guys out of the 30s that were still alive in the 70s. I got on the elevator with two of them once. Turned out they were going to their lawyer’s office. It was Joe Filardo and Tano Lococo. These were dangerous, dangerous men in the 30s. They were like these tiny little shriveled up. thin silver haired kind of, you know, like five foot tall, 105 pound, 110 pound guys. That’s the way Marshalll Caifano ended up and he was always was, they always were little guys, but He was a little guy physically, but he was a huge guy in the outfit and and he was a quiet guy, you know Paul Rico kind of brought him up. Paul was came out of the thirties is you know, kind of the behind the scenes boss when Accardo was more out front. Ricca was in penitentiary [00:02:00] down here at Leavenworth for a while and Cardo was really running things. He was going back Ricca forth and getting instructions. And when Ricca came back, he never really assumed like any kind of out front. Kind of a role while Accardo was more out front Ricca was a really bright guy and, and he knew that he needed to stay in the background and, and pull the strings. He learned that from Al Capone, you know, Al Capone, he was all out there and everything, and the government went after him big time. They, the Chicago outfit guys had figured out, you know, stay in the background if you can. Now he led the other as a, this one newspaper reporter. Called them loudmouth buffoons, and they get snazzy nicknames, you know, Joey the Clown, and Joey Doves Aiuppa, and of course these weren’t loudmouth buffoons, well, Joey Lombardo was, Aiuppa wasn’t, but, but there was plenty of them out there, and they got publicity, so they got the heat. Rico ca is really [00:03:00] supremely intelligent, they say, he knew what he needed to make this thing work besides, you know, guys that were willing to steal and do the gambling and, and take over the numbers rackets and, and, you know, infiltrate the teamsters. He needed top law enforcement people, politicians and judges. to be on the take and get them under control. And, and these like swaggering apes playing the tough guy up there on Rush Street on Friday nights, you know, they’re not, you know, they’re not going to do it. He needs the little, what he called the little guys and to do the heavy work and to make the connections and quiet little guys that were more, a little more sophisticated. Now, Caifano, you know, he, he proved him. earned his bones as a kid as you have to do as a man. He was a boxer when he was a kid. He had a cauliflower ear even, and, but it wasn’t really his boxing skills. You know, Joey Doves Aiuppa was [00:04:00] bought under Joey O’Brien. A lot of these guys did. But it wasn’t his boxing skills that really frightened people. A lot of people were frightened of Marshall Caifano. He threw in his fall buddy, his fall partner, was Vincent the Saint Inseraro, who was a little guy too. But boy, they, somebody said, you know, if they stood on top of each other’s shoulders, they couldn’t change the light bulb, couldn’t get up to the light bulb, but these guys were feared killers. They were close to Anthony Accardo, of course, they came up under Paul Ricca, and these are the guys that did the heavy work, more than any of the other guys did personally. For example, in the 40s, Caifano was sent out to Los Angeles, about the time Bugsy Siegel was building Las Vegas into a gambling empire, a mecca, and he didn’t quite survive to get to that. According to Gus Russo’s book, The Outfit, Bugsy Siegel was sitting in his Beverly [00:05:00] Hills home with a Caifano associate. named Alan Smiley when somebody else arrived and that’s the end of Bugsy Siegel. Now see, there’s Caifano right in and around the murder of Bugsy Siegel. 20 minutes, 30 minutes later, Chicago outfit. Well, really, they’re one of their chief bookies and their main guy in Las Vegas at the time, Gus Greenbaum, appears at the Flamingo Hotel, which Bugsy had been building, said, you know, he just tells them, we’re taking over, you know, that was, that was it. And, and from then on, and the outfit really ran that. I mean, they had to kick back and Mayor Lansky and, and Luciano and the, the Eastern mobs had money in it, but they all. Ran it together. It’ll eventually, you know, Chicago will make a deal with them where they’re solely in Las Vegas and the Eastern mobs have Atlantic city. But early on, they all had to join in and keep the peace out there. You know, in an [00:06:00] interesting kind of on the Hollywood era, which, you know, Paul Ricca went to jail for a long time for extorting money from Hollywood theaters or Hollywood movie. Companies and infiltrated the unions out there. They according to the godfather of the New York family, Corleone’s killed Bugsy Siegel or a Bugsy Siegel character. But they never made a movie about Paul Rica. There’s never been a movie made about Paul Rica or Anthony Accardo or any of these big time Chicago guys. I don’t understand that. Maybe somebody out there, out there can tell me. Another thing, Marshalll Caifano, and I did a whole story just on this particularly, about a woman, there’s a guy named Nick Circella, who was a good friend of Caifano’s, and he had an extortion trial going on, and his lover, a woman named Estelle Carey, and a former Dice girl, at his joint, was going to cooperate for the federal prosecutors, and all of a sudden this guy’s in jail, I believe [00:07:00] at the time, and, and her body is found ice picked to death and burnt at her, her apartment, and Caifano was the prime suspect. Of course, that case was never solved because it was Chicago. There’s another unsolved murder. In 1950, a Chicago police lieutenant named William Drury, Was killed the there was a strangulation of a mobster in Chicago named Russian Willie Strauss, and there was a 73 shotgun killing of Richard Cain in Rose’s Sandwich Shop. Caifano was suspected of being part of that. In 1950s, the outfit moved in on the black policy rackets, and that was Sam Giancana that kind of got that going, and really that was how he, you know, really became important with the outfit, because he was a guy that Moved in on this black policy, and there was a lot of money in it, and there were some people [00:08:00] that tried to kidnap policy king, black dude named Theodore, Theodore Rose over again, and in the 1950s, the outfit moved in on the black policy rackets. This was Sam Giancana primarily instigating this, and really when he took those over, that was a big, a large amount of money that the outfit got to start, you know, sharing in. There was a policy king, a black guy named Teddy Rowe, or Theodore Rowe, and he refused to, to give in to the outfit, refused to give in to Giancana, and, and somebody sent some people to kill Teddy Rowe, and in that shootout, Teddy Rowe was armed, he killed Caifano’s brother, and stopped this kidnapping attempt. He pled self-defense and about a year later Teddy Rowe was blown apart by two men with shotguns. Caifano of course was questioned about that and you know, you know Caifano was part of that. He took a hit in [00:09:00] 1964. He was convicted of trying to extort 60, 000 from an oil tycoon named Ray Ryan who was from Indiana and Ray Ryan had testified against him. Got released from prison on that one on the extortion attempt in the 1970s and Ray Ryan was so afraid of Caifano that he offered to pay him a million dollars so he wouldn’t remain mad at him, he didn’t, he could all keep his money, you know, I mean he could stay on the streets. Over again, so this, this oil man, when, when Caifano got out of, when, when Caifano got out of the penitentiary out of this attempted extortion of the oil man, Ray Ryan, he made an offer to pay Caifano a million dollars so he could, you know, walk the streets freely and not be worried about being murdered. According to a witness in another case, Caifano told Joy the Clown Lombardo, said, let’s just take that million dollars and [00:10:00] then kill him anyway. That’s the kind of guy Caifano was. But again, a little perfectly manicured, perfectly dressed, unassuming kind of guy. You know, he was not out there in any manner. 1977, Ryan’s car was blown up with Ryan in it and nobody was ever charged, so apparently Caifano did hold a grudge, huh? There’s another guy in Chicago, a mob. Associate, it was a banker named Joe Testa. Caifano had been after Testa for a long time, claiming that Testa owed him two million dollars. Testa said, you know, I don’t figure I owe you. Well, 1961, he turned the ignition key on in his car and he goes up. Another murder directly linked to Marshall Caifano. Now, Caifano was in prison when this happened, but you know, what a better, what better cover than being in prison? You know, hey, I don’t know anything about it. Yeah, we did have an argument, [00:11:00] we did have a conflict, but I was in prison, I couldn’t do anything. 1960, Marshalll Caifano gets 20 years for fencing stolen stock certificates. That was a big deal back then. These stocks, you could steal these stock certificates and they were like fungible or they were, they were just like certificates. They were like money. And then they counterfeited them a lot, but they could steal them and then go someplace else and sell them. There’s really no way to track them. So, He had almost a century, almost, so Marshalll Caifano had about a hundred years of blood and fear. I mean, you live to be in his 90s. He had, he had at least 80 years of being a feared killer. And he’s just a guy, you know, another story that Red Moment tells is after there was a million dollar robbery, a Purlator armored car service had Inside job and the guys got over a million dollars [00:12:00] and red says that he walked into some place and they were cutting up that money. He was going to see Marshalll Caifano and Caifano was there and. And they just like looked at him and he looked at them and he said he just turned around and walked back out. So I find out he was, he had his fingers in a lot of stuff over a long time, you know, if you could, if you could get into his mind, if you could get into his mind, you could like, you could solve a lot of crime in Chicago and, and explain a lot of things that have happened over the years. So That’s a little short story about Marshalll Caifano. So if you have a problem, if you have a problem with drugs or alcohol. Don’t forget, I like to ride motorcycles, if you have a, don’t forget, I like to ride motorcycles, so watch out for motorcycles when you’re out there on the streets. If you have a problem with PTSD and you’ve been in the service, be sure and go to the VA website and get that hotline number. Hand in hand is [00:13:00] drug and alcohol addiction, whether you’ve been in the service or not. You got drug and alcohol addiction, you need to get a hold of Gambino soldier, Anthony Ruggiano, he has a hotline on his website, and a hotline on, probably on his YouTube channel, he’s a drug and alcohol counselor down in Florida, so get a hold of him, and, and he can get you squared away. Don’t forget to like and subscribe and tell your friends about it. Join our Facebook group. We got about 60,000 people on it. A lot of great discussions. A lot of crazies on that too trying to post porn but I don’t let the porn get on there guys and I don’t let the scammers and the The people that are trying to put up fake websites to get your credit card number. We really monitor that closely, although I got two helpers on it and it’s kind of hard. I mean, it becomes a little more work than what I want, but it’s kind of fun too. And I see people making connections and telling a lot of good stories. I’d like to get some more Chicago people on it. Got a lot of New York and Philly [00:14:00] people on it. Las Vegas, a little bit of California, and we had one guy in Kansas City was posting stuff who was kind of, you know, along the edges of it all of his life, and then another guy who belongs to it, who is Kansas City guy, he he’s He started making complaints, just making comments and complaining that this guy was putting up these Kansas City pictures and complained, well, you know, these people still have family out there and it scared, scared the other guy off. So always another drama on Facebook. So thanks a lot, guys.
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Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you a unique insight into the Mafia. Today, Gary interviews the noted Chicago outfit expert, Gus Russo, known for his books such as “Supermob,” “The Outfit,” and “Best of Enemies.” Gus Russo tells how Murray “The Camel” Humphreys is an intriguing figure in the Chicago Outfit. He provides insights into Humphreys’ early life, born with the Welsh name of Llewellyn in Illinois, growing up in poverty, and getting involved in petty crime. Gus continues by telling how Humphreys was able to climb the ranks of an organized crime family and become a valued and trusted advisor, political fixer, and business operative in the Chicago mafia known as “The Outfit.” Murray Humphreys was so well connected that when his daughter needed a prom date, he was able to induce Frank Sinatra to fill that role.
Click here on Gus Russo to buy his books
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To buy my Kindle book, Leaving Vegas: The True Story of How FBI Wiretaps Ended Mob Domination of Las Vegas Casinos.
To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast. Donate to the podcast. Click here! Gary: [00:00:00] Welcome all you wiretappers. Good to be back here in the studio of Gangland Wire. I have a man who is probably one of the most respected mafia historians in the United States, Gus Russo Russo. You probably have heard of his books Supermob welcome, Gus Russo. I’m really glad you’re here. Hey, Gary. Thanks for having me. Supermob and all of a sudden, let’s see, and The Outfit. And do you have other Gus Russo: books, Gus Russo? Oh my goodness. Yeah, I’ve got about nine now. I think I’ve done a couple. I’ve done a couple of the Kennedys and I’ve got a really one that’s been really successful called Best of Enemies, an espionage book that’s being made into a feature. Your film so very excited Gary: about that. I read something about that. I’d forgotten about that interesting Well, what I’ll do guys is is I’ll have a link to his author’s page on Amazon So you can search among his books and and he is probably Like I said one of the most respected mob historians in the United States today. Oh along with, , Selwyn Rabb, probably. He ranks right up there with Selwyn Rabb, and, as [00:01:00] far as Chicago’s concerned, to me, he is the man for Chicago, and we all love Chicago up there, and I have to thank, speaking of Chicago, I have to thank my friend, Chicago native Ben Ellickson for sending me this book, The Outfit. He’s been after me to do this for a while and I don’t know, some of you get distracted by, you know, the glitz and the glamour of New York sometimes. I forget about my Chicago guys, I get back to them periodically. So he’s been, thank you very much for sending me this book because I did some shorts out of the book, a little one minute things for YouTube, just a little quick little stories out of the book. And now we’re going to do a full interview with Gus Russo Russo. And Gus Russo, I’ll tell you what, the Chicago guys, I’ll get, I’ll get an extra bump up in Chicago when that starts. I promise you that they love you in Chicago. But we’re going to talk about Murray Humphreys, Murray the Camel Humphreys, and I’ve wanted to do this guy for a long time. He’s an interesting guy, and one reason I feel a connection to him because my family came over [00:02:00] from Wales a lot longer before his family did. His mother and father came from Wales. Now here’s a Welshman who becomes a trusted, highly valued, Maybe upper echelon, if you will, member of the Chicago outfit. And Gus Russo just said, you know, he said, used to say, well, is this just organized crime or is this the mafia? You know, so they got, they got Jewish guys, they got the Welshman in there. And, so it’s, it’s interesting. So Gus Russo, let’s start talking about Murray, the Camel” Humphreys, I guess. Tell us a little bit about his early growing up years. I know, you know, something about that, not a lot, but a little bit about him growing up. Gus Russo: Yeah, well, he was, born in, Illinois and, his parents were, were, lower rent today that they were, you know, in poverty. And, you know, I think, well, his name was, they called him Lou. You know, his name wasn’t Murray. It was Lou, Llewellyn. He took to the streets at a very young age, doing just petty stuff, you [00:03:00] know, whatever he could do to survive, and got into a lot of trouble that way. I don’t remember all the details at this point, but , he was a hooligan, to a degree, and he pretty much had to be, he was so poor, And he had got into trouble with truancy and, and juvenile crime and, went before judges. In fact, one judge, , took to him so well, and it was mutual that , Lou took his name from that Judge Murray, judge Murray, whatever his name, whole name was. And so he became Murray Humphreys at that point. And just kept moving up the ladder into, bootlegging or whatever was going on at the time. And, but yeah, from a young guy, he was on the streets, Gary: surviving. Everybody, everybody was, was poor and a street criminal during those years. Then prohibition came along. Now you mentioned that judge Murray, didn’t he, like try to get him to go into the law? Actually. Did I read that? Gus Russo: Yeah. Well, yeah, as I, as I recall, I think, forgive me, it’s been, , you know, 25, 30 years since I delved deep into it, but yeah, he, he [00:04:00] certainly. Got Murray interested in law and he tried to get him to, think about becoming a lawyer because he, Murray was a brilliant kid, right? Everybody who met him knew it in a minute. This guy’s got a high IQ but he did in your and him a lifelong love of, of reading law books. That, and, interviewing his family and his ex-wife, wife, and everything. They said he read voraciously, but it was always like Martindale Hubble. That’s all he read. He had stacks of legal books behind him, and he devoured these things. Why he became so obsessed with the law is beyond me, but, , that was his thing. And, but it, it held him in good stead when he Needed to know how to work, you know, to advise the gangsters on getting out of trouble and he, he had so many great legal, contraptions that he worked out for the mob that, , he was called the Einstein, you know, of the mob, but he, yeah, he just loved law books and thanks to Gary: Judge Murray. I read something about how he kind of noticed that double [00:05:00] jeopardy thing early on, and they didn’t really think about that back then, back in those old days of double jeopardy and, and how he moved Jake Guzik’s body, front, because he knows that it’s going to expose people who, hung out or went to this restaurant and he moved his body. So this guy was always thinking when he was, well, yeah, Gus Russo: he was. He was the one who came up with using the 5th Amendment before Congress, you know, up until that point, you could use the 5th in a courtroom, but, , his research, when they got called before, I guess, it was either Kefauver or one of the investigations before that, and he told these guys, just read these little cue cards I’m going to give you, these little index cards, and take the 5th Amendment, and the people, the congressmen on the dais, they said, you can’t do that. And the, and Crowley said, I think we can, you’re going to find out we can. They did their research. They found out Crowley was right, but they were so stymied. They had, they never expected a criminal to plead the fifth in Congress. And his court just went up a [00:06:00] notch with the mobbing after Gary: that. Really? Oh man, I bet. You know, you mentioned prohibition, of course, as I started to say, All these guys, once prohibition hit, then that’s, you know, that became full employment for young gangsters. And that’s what they said. So did I suppose is that when he first met got in with Capone and and the outfit. Yeah, Gus Russo: you know, keep them. I’ll get to that didn’t you keep in mind prohibition was one of the great ironies of all time because, you know, when the temperance societies started to push for prohibition, they’re thinking was it would clean up. Crime and it had just the complete opposite effect. It made all the street hooligans millionaires Gary: and organized. Gus Russo: Yeah. So, you know, after a prohibition came in, these guys were. They had these great networks of contacts and, for distribution and everything. And they said, what do we do with this world that we’ve developed here? We can’t do [00:07:00] booze anymore, but we have all this great interstate network of distribution. And that’s when people like Humphreys came up with a lot of ideas for how to, you know, keep moving with organized Gary: crime. Yeah, I was reading how he got into labor racketeering pretty early too. Gus Russo: Yeah, yeah, he realized, yeah, that, I don’t, yeah, I doubt he invented it, but he certainly perfected it, the idea of the sweetheart deals, where he would go to the corporate heads and say, I will keep the unions in, in check for you, so they won’t strike or ask for, rate increase, wage increases, and then he went to the unions and, and said, Okay. If you let us take care of you, you know, we’ll represent you and get you wage increases. So he was lying to every, he was lying to them, to the mm-Hmm. workers and, , he was paid by the owners and of the companies, or the mob was, but that was his strategy to play them up against each other. And and it worked for a long time. Gary: You know. You know, and I can’t [00:08:00] remember I looked into that Hollywood extortion and that had a lot to do with labor unions out in Hollywood, but I don’t remember his name being involved in that. Was he involved in that in any manner? Gus Russo: Oh, he was really involved and he was also very much involved in, springing those guys when they got busted in the 40s for it. He was all over that thing. What happened was, Humphries, as I recall, and you can fact check me on this, but he, in the early 30s, The Chicago Mob took over IATSE, the Team Stagehands Union, the theatrical and stagehands, union, and, which ran all the movie theaters, or the unionized movie theaters, and that was their entrance into, entertainment. And I think that came because of Murray. That was his idea. When they went down, they went down to a, the convention of IOTC in the early thirties down in Kentucky and basically took over the convention. They walked in there literally with machine guns and said, our guy is going to be the president of IOTC from now on. And that’s how they put George Brown in. And, that was, I [00:09:00] think Murray orchestrated that. And, but it was brilliant because then they were able to take over, movie theater chains across the country, and charge what they wanted to the distributors, blah, blah, blah, to the movie studios, and that got them ultimately into Hollywood, because IOTC, that union is very, very strong in Hollywood, and you can’t do business to this day, really, without, getting IOTC to cooperate, so if they, you know, Murray realized that if they ran in that union, they could control the entertainment business from the bottom instead of from the top. Really? And that was his genius. You know, that, that the bottom could run everything. So, Gary: and then the heads of the studios, they started shaking them down as individuals. Cause that’s kind of how it fell. If I remember right, that one of the studio heads when Robert Montgomery, I think of We’re going to talk about the, the left and right. Pretty well known. Powerful actor at the top. I blowing the whistle on it, but they really started shaking down these individual. You know, like Robert. You know, [00:10:00] Zanuck. And I don’t remember the names, but a lot of famous names they had, Gus Russo: Oh, yeah. Well, that was it. is again another double cross like the sweetheart deals. What happened was The idea came about, because I think Johnny Roselli had had, who was running, MCA at the time, Stein, Joel Stein, who was from Chicago, and he was an associate of Capone. He ended up forming, MCA, a big, Studio or a big agency in Hollywood. So he brought johnny roselli out. Oh, yeah You can to control the to bust the unions and you know to to get rough with everybody And johnny comes back to chicago and says hey guys, you know, we can make some money in hollywood This thing is this business is growing. So what they did was where the Hollywood moguls brought the mob out to control the unions. Again, the mob said, hmm, we can work that the other way, just like we did here in Chicago. And we’ll take, well, yeah, we’ll take over the unions for you, but then we’re going to run you. And then you’re going to charge, we’re going to bribe you, blackmail you. So another [00:11:00] thing like prohibition that backfired. , and so Murray was sort of in charge as far as I can remember, of, getting that whole thing going. Of taking over that critical this critical unions, including the teamsters years later. Gary: Yeah, I’ll be darned. Well, that’s he was such a powerful guy that is really not that well known. Think about yeah, I mean, compared to Giancana, you know, Anthony Ocardo and, Johnny Rosselli. Yeah, he really knew how to stay in the background. So, That whole, I’m glad you mentioned that whole getting the, , was it seven, Chicago outfit mobsters were all in Leavenworth. They first put them in different prisons at, right. Convicted to the Hollywood extortion, right. Union racketeering. And then All at one time during the war, they all ended up in Leavenworth, I believe. and then they pulled some strings. They had 10 year sentences and they were supposed to do about nine years of that 10 years. And they got out early and it was a huge scandal at the time. So he had, Gus Russo: yeah, [00:12:00] the Hollywood scandal. Yeah. Well, What happened was, Murray and Sidney Korshak, who was sort of his protege in this labor racketeering thing, he sort of groomed Korshak, they had President Truman sort of under their thumb, in a way, because he was the, protege of Tom Pendergast, you know, the mob boss from Kansas, and, who, you know, pretty much created Truman. And so they basically went through Pendergast. This was the genius again. How do we get our guys out? Hmm. Well, let’s see, Tom Pendergast. We’ll, and we’ll just lower the boom on Truman and say, unless you get our guys transferred to a better prison and then an early parole, we’ll, you put everything we know about you and your connections in Kansas out there. And that’s how they got the guys out early. Gary: Yeah, I read about that and his attorney general was a man named Tom Clark. Yes. Kind of an old school politician and he’s the one that really was Truman’s, you know, [00:13:00] his go to to get all this handled. He had to have the attorney general on board, of course, and do something like this. And then Tom Clark gets rewarded. He becomes appointed, he gets appointed to the Supreme Court after this is over. Man, Gus Russo: it’s crazy. It’s just crazy, but that’s what I was so intrigued about these guys for because they were weren’t weren’t famous like all this New York stuff that you always everybody knows Luciano and Gambino and all that stuff. But these guys were great because they weren’t famous to the average person, and yet they were in many ways more powerful than what was going on in New York. Yeah, New York was to me. A fiefdom to itself, but Chicago is running a big hunk of the country. Yeah, they are, you know And they would they loved the fact that the new yorkers were getting all the headlines Gary: It was another thing as they knew The efficacy of staying low profile, whereas in New York, you know, all the way up to Gotti, you know, everybody wants to be on the front page and not all of them, [00:14:00] but a lot of them did enough that it drew a lot of attention and was Chicago guys were smart. This now we’re up to about World War II, the end of the war, this is kind of his big thing. And as What does he do then after the war? You know, let’s tell one story about the moving of the body of Greasy Thumb Guzik. Do you remember that at all? No, Gus Russo: you’ll have to refresh me. I apologize. I don’t know if I had that in the book. Did I have that in the book or did I know that? Gary: Well, maybe not. Maybe I got it. I just kind of struck me. He was, Guzik died in a public place. It was a place where a lot of politicians had come to and I can’t remember the name of it. Oh, well, it’s not, not important, guys, but just, you know, the thumbnail sketch of the story. For you guys out there. He died in this public place where a lot of politicians like Counselor’s Row restaurant, maybe downtown Chicago, someplace like that. And since he died there, he was so such a lightning rod. He kind of, he had become a lightning rod with the Chicago [00:15:00] public and the Tribune and all those reporters up there that he moved his body and took it back over to his home so they could claim he died in his home rather than in this restaurant. Oh, whatever. That’s great. I was always thinking, I mean, it was always thinking. What about the there was a deal, the fake kidnapping of this con artist back in the thirties, John Factor, Jake the barber. Gus Russo: Oh, yeah. Well, Gary: you know, they, for something and then they fake the kidnapping and Gus Russo: yeah. A lot of that was to get even with, John, Tuohy, who had double crossed the guys back in the, in the thirties. And so it was a very elaborate scheme where they, pretended that Jake the barber had, had been kidnapped and he was an associate of the outfit, of course, and, And they pinned it on Tuohy and Tuohy ends up going to prison for 30 years or something for, you know, for something he didn’t even do. And then when he came outta prison in the late [00:16:00] fifties, he wrote a book about it and of course they killed him instantly. , he wrote the book and, yeah, it was another elaborate scheme where to get a guy, you know, who I guess. Jake, the barber might not been a naturalized citizen and they had to skirt all that issue as well. And so they had this elaborate thing to keep him, you know, around and they, they framed this innocent Gary: guy, John. He was English and they were looking to deport him. And that’s right. And then they faked the kidnapping and it just got such a an elaborate, cool. Scheme that helped this guy out and took care of some competition. And you know, no, no, no deaths, no bodies, no headlines. Gus Russo: The schemes were just nonstop. It was just one after another. They were, they were all elaborate and well thought out. And, That’s what’s so intriguing about them. It wasn’t all like shoot them up stuff. Very often it was just some crazy scheme like when they blackmailed Estes Kefauver, which you [00:17:00] may want to get to, but Gary: yeah, oh yeah, let’s tell us. Tell us that you know about that. Tell us about that. I know they did. Yeah, well, you know, Gus Russo: in the early 50s when Kefauver, which I think to this day is still the only congressional hearing about organized crime for the congressional investigation. And, it was a big deal, and obviously it went on for a couple years. And they had zeroed in on Chicago, and they especially had zeroed in on Sidney Korshak. They really, he was at the top of their list. They wanted him because that got them to Murray Humphreys, of course, and the whole big labor, interstate labor control that they had. And Keith Farber was really interested in this. And of course, Humphreys and Korshak and the mob couldn’t allow that to be successful. This was billions of dollars when you, gross, when you think of all the business they were doing across the country. So, they knew, they did a little investigation and they knew Kefauver had a weakness. A very common weakness, shall we say. Yeah, . And, Gary: [00:18:00] I know a lot of guys got that weakness. I had a little bit myself when I was young. Yeah, no Gus Russo: comment. Funny because I think Keith Barber was a very, like arick quote unquote Christian kind of guy that he presented himself like a lot of politicians do as being born again and all that stuff, which was pretty phony. And, and, and so Kors Shak set him up with, a couple, you know, LA working ladies at the D Drake Hotel, which they had cameras all set up and, Korshe showed up, in Keith Faber’s office one day and put the photos on the desk and said, okay, how far do you wanna go with this? And that was the end of, and I don’t think court, I don’t think Keith Falber for all the money, all the money spent and all the hearings, I don’t think they had one success. I mean. It was nothing happened. and, so yeah, that was much ado about nothing. I have to say, I have to brag a little bit. When I was writing the outfit in the late 90s, I realized that the, the Kefauver papers were still stored and locked away, and so I, there’s a 50 year rule, or there was at the time, it might be 75 now, but it was a [00:19:00] 50 year rule on, automatically on congressional documents, and the 50 year rule was almost up, but it wasn’t, so I got in touch with some congressmen, in fact, I think it was Senator McCain, his office was in charge of the Library of Congress holdings or whatever through his committee, and McCain went to bat for me and he said, I’ll open them up. It’s only a couple years away anyway. So I, I was the first person to open like 40 or 50 boxes of, Keith Fulber stuff, and, that was an interesting day, you know, to pry those things open and get it at the look at their raw files, but, Yeah, but it was much ado about nothing, because they had the pictures Pictures worth a thousand words Gary: How did that come to light you remember? I mean that was there there’s like sources out there that That well, you know, The first I heard about it was in the 70s 1970s when my friend cy hirsch wrote a four part thing on Korshak for the new york times. This was [00:20:00] the first but you should look it up if you haven’t read it. It was really breakthrough stuff reporting this. Gus Russo: He and his partner, Jeff Girth, spent maybe a year working on it. It was a big project and they interviewed dozens, if not hundreds of people, a lot of trips to Chicago, and they got that story originally about the bribery of Keith Hauber, and I took it another step further when I got my sources, but they broke that and You know it’s a great series of articles. You should check it Gary: out. Yeah, well, I’ve heard it I know say more of her. She’s pretty well respected. I mean that guy broke a lot of big stories Yeah Ended the vietnam war in some ways Gus Russo: Right Well, you know he I can tell you a side story that isn’t well known about that you know, he was trying to get korshak for an interview for that. I know sign he told me this story and And Korshak would never respond. And and so ultimately, they wrote the, they published the first installment in the New York Times. And then if I remember, [00:21:00] Cy got a, Cy Hirsch got a call from Korshak one day. And Korshak was kind of soft spoken, but very threatening. And it went along the lines of, I’ll keep in mind, Psy had just done the My Lai Massacre Pulitzer Prize winning reporting and so Korshak calls him up and says, Mr. Hirsch, why are you doing this to me? And I don’t know what Psy said, but Korshak said, shouldn’t you be sticking with the things you’re good at like blood? Think about blood, Mr. Mr. Hirsch. I want you to think about blood. That’s what you’re good at. And he kept saying it. And I said, man, a chill went through because he knew what he was talking about. So, and then he hung up. But he said, yeah, think about that, Mr. Hirsch. And they went forward, though, and they published the other articles. Yeah, but Gary: those mob guys, they love those indirect threats that you can’t really take. Gus Russo: Oh, I had a, you know, I got to tell you, I hate that if we’re stuck for time, let me know, but I’ll tell you a great story like that. When I was working [00:22:00] in Chicago interviewing, I interviewed a lot of the wise guys and their families and the law enforcement, everybody. And one of the top bodyguards for Sam Giancana was still alive. And he became friendly with me. He thought I was going to be fair to the gang and tell the whole story. And so he was always calling to see if I was okay. He would call me at the hotels. He would call me here in Maryland. Hey, everything okay, Gus Russo? Anybody bothering you? Should I talk to anybody for you? You need anything? And it was the same thing. Well, there was Speaking, I’m getting to the point of the veiled threat. Yeah. Yeah. So when he, he, he called up or no Antoinette Giancana called me up one day and she said, how are things? I said, I think they’re real good. And then passing, I said something about my publisher from one of my books, hasn’t been sending out his royalty statements and I can really could use the money. And she said, Oh, that’s too bad. So she hung up 10 minutes later, this. Guy calls me up this bodyguard. [00:23:00] I said, hey Gus Russo, I hear you’re having problems with your publisher He said he said I’ve already checked I can be in I can be in Baltimore 930 tomorrow morning You’ll have your money by 10. How much does he owe you? Louie I said Louie uncle Louie uncle Louie, please. No, I don’t need this. He said no Gus Russo. No problem I said and this really is I think insightful I said Louie, I don’t need anybody coming here and threatening anybody, you know. He said, who do you think we are? We don’t threaten. He said, he said, I said, well, what are you going to do? He said, I’ll just look him in the eye with a look he’s never seen before and say, please pay my friend and he will pay you. I guarantee it. There’ll be no guns, no threats, nothing. And it goes back to the old thing of the evil eye that these guys practice since they were a kids Meloy, the Gary: Italian college. Yeah. Melo. And, Gus Russo: and he said, no. Who do you think we are? I’ll just look him in the eye and very nicely ask him for the money. . Gary: I, I’ve got a friend today this kind of a reform mob associate, and, and he asked me to call his sister about [00:24:00] doing a, he wanted me to do a little favor. I. I don’t practice anymore, but I’m a lawyer, so I called her up to see what the deal was, and we were talking, and I said, well, you know, She said, well, I appreciate, you know, Steve asking to call me and I, you know, tried to help her out as best I could. And she said, you know, she says I had to be careful about what kind of favors I ask him to do. I said, I understand that. Anything I ask him to do too. Gus Russo: Well, that’s the thing when, when they like you, you’re sort of in the group and he never asked for a nickel. It wasn’t about money. It’s about like a blood oath or something. Literally when I would arrive in Chicago, there’d be a note at the desk from uncle Louie saying, Gus Russo, everything taken care of, anybody bothering you, the same four questions, did you need any girls, need some liquor? No, Louie, I’m fine. So Gary: speaking of Giancana, now, Chicago has this interesting setup, how, you know, Rika kind of in the background and Ricardo’s more up front, then Ricardo kind of drops back and, and Giancana is like the boss, you know, everybody to everybody [00:25:00] on the streets, there’s Giancana. So how did Giancana relate with our friend Lou Ellen Humphreys? Transcribed by https: otter. ai Gus Russo: Well, I mean, that’s a good question. I, I think that he was a bit jealous of I don’t think Sam was all that bright and he, he was a tough guy. He got there just by being tough, you know? And I think there was some resentment towards people like Korshak and Humphreys, and then they weren’t Italian, obviously. And and there was, and the other thing was Humphreys. And Korshak and Ocardo all looked down on Giancana’s headline making stuff, going out with all the movie stars, Phyllis McGuire and everything. And there was always that tension there between Sam on the front pages and people like Humphreys, you know, who were way below the radar. So that that was always a thing with them. Gary: So who would Humphreys deal with the most? And it came to the Italian segment of the outfit as a boss that he, I mean, he didn’t, [00:26:00] it seemed like he didn’t really report to anybody when like a capo or a captain or have a crew or anything, it doesn’t seem like how, how was his relationship and who was it with mostly? Well, Gus Russo: according to his widow who knew a lot Gene Humphreys, who I was like, lucky to find. And it was direct. They called him Joe, Joe batters. They didn’t, nobody ever called him Tony Ocardo. It was Joe and, and, and it was a very, very tight relationship between Curly and, and, and Joe batters, Joe, Joe Ocardo. And it’s funny when I first started talking to her, I was asking her questions. Questions about Tony and, and for a minute she didn’t know what I Oh, you mean Joe? And I said, oh, that, that explained to me that they, everybody called him Joe. Yeah. And and, and, but yeah, Humphreys answered directly. It was Kors Shak answering to Humphreys and Humphreys answering to Acardo. was pretty much the best I can tell. Gary: Okay, interesting. Yeah, they like that chain of command, if you will. They really like that chain of command, which of course keeps them from being directly involved with with certain things that other people do. You got that. [00:27:00] Yeah, yeah. Huh. That’s interesting. You know, another thing I read something about was the, the tailor shop with the FBI Hidden Mike. And how did he deal, did he have to deal with Bill Romer or how was his relationship with the Bureau back in those days? In the early days of, you know, after 57, after they formed the top hoodlum squad. Right. How did he deal with them? I know they had that hidden microphone in that tailor shop for a long time. Gus Russo: Yeah. I mean, it was, it was, it was kind of a cat and mouse game. It’s strange. Humphrey is sort of like the the challenge of dealing with it, and, and, and Romer you know, same thing. These guys there was a, there was a grudging respect, if you read Romer’s books especially between You know Romer and and Humphreys, and Humphreys knew from the get go, because they had a, they actually had an FBI guy on the take, and they knew where the microphones were, for the most part, there were a couple they didn’t know, but they knew about the one in Stilano’s tailor shop, [00:28:00] and, you know, they’re, in the transcripts, you see where Murray would come in at nine in the morning some days, and For a meeting and he would lean towards the microphone, which was hidden in a radiator And he said I’d like to welcome everybody to the nine o’clock meeting of the Chicago Organized Crime Gang Knowing that these guys are gonna laugh down the street, right? And 99 percent of the time if you look at organized crime Transcripts, they aren’t really talking about crime. Most of the time they’re talking about They’re diets. You’re putting on a few pounds. Yeah, how’s the house? What’s what’s the what’s the food like at Attica? You know and and I know that that chorus girl, you’re going around with you. Better be careful. Your wife’s going to find out that was most of it. And these poor FBI guys had to type all this meaningless stuff up every night. And but Yeah, they knew a lot of that, where a lot of the microphones were, and do you remember the story when Romer and those guys planted the microphone in Solano’s? Do you remember what happened there? You know, Gary: I don’t know that story. It’s a funny Gus Russo: story. But it was [00:29:00] illegal. You know, Hoover told these guys to do it, but they said, if you get caught, we can’t do anything. This is, these Gary: are illegal bugs. We had one here in Kansas City where Nick Civella met us. Oh, there you Gus Russo: go. They were illegal then. Yeah, still, yeah. And so they would sneak in now Solano’s was on the second floor of Michigan Avenue of a townhouse or a shop. The lower floor was a restaurant. So they had to go in on a night, the FBI did, when the restaurant was closed. And I guess they went on a Sunday night or something, and they, they got up to the second floor where the tailor shop was, and they put the, they were going to put the first microphone in the floor boards between the restaurant ceiling, a roof or whatever, and the floor of the tailor shop. Well, they fell through the roof, the ceiling, under the restaurant below, and Romer, Romer said they spent the rest of the night driving around Illinois trying to find a place where they could buy plaster and paint and fix this thing before the restaurant [00:30:00] opened. And he said it was like a Keystone Cops. And then there was, you know, they would tail these guys and they, Murray Humphreys had the story of He was being followed in a car by the FBI guys, and it was obvious he knew, and, and he was just going to pick up groceries or going to, you know, go to them to a hardware store, whatever. It wasn’t mob stuff most of the time. Yeah. But they were being followed. So he had his, he had a driver. So Murray had his driver pull over. And then the FBI, of course, pulls over behind him and Murray walks back to the FBI car and says, Hey, guys, you know, it’s getting kind of silly. We’re wasting gasoline here. Why don’t I send my driver home? I’ll get in the car with you and I’ll tell you where I need Gary: to go. You can save gas. Yeah. Gus Russo: Supposedly, at least on that day, they laugh and they did it. They took him to the hardware store. So there was this kind of love hate thing going on, you know, they were hired to bring this thing down, but they had to respect the smarts of Gary: people like Humphrey. You know, he was, was he only charged with income [00:31:00] tax evasion? Of course, they get everybody for that, that they can’t get for something else. What other kind of charges did anybody ever get? Well, Gus Russo: I mean, they were when he died, they were after him for not showing up for a grand jury or something. And, and But essentially it was taxes. Sure. It was what they used to call ill gotten gains, you know, they, he had a house down in Key Biscayne. Where his wife mostly lived, Jean, and the FBI was prowling around down there. How does he afford a beachfront house in Key Biscayne? And it got to be a real issue with with his wife. And she would call up Murray and say, Hey, and she called him M. Hey, M, why are these guys following me all of a sudden? These FBI guys, they’re everywhere. They’re not there. And so that was it. It was the ill gotten gains thing that really got him in trouble, I Gary: think. Spending more money that you show income. Yeah, exactly. Gus Russo: That was always the problem. You know, that was in fact, there were stories of mob wives [00:32:00] in Chicago complaining. I think Giancana’s wife early on, she died young years earlier, but Before she had passed she was complaining that they had all this money and she’d say why don’t you ever take me to Europe on a vacation? He said I can’t because they’ll know we got the money. Well, then what good’s the money? So drove the wives crazy They were burying money. They were hiding money in the walls of their houses burying it in their backyards. Yeah, and the A friend told me that after his pass after Ricardo’s passing his wife His widow, Clarice, showed up at Marshall’s department store or something to buy a silver set trays, and, and tea and everything, and she pulled out all these 20 bills, and they were from, like, the 20s, they were all moldy, and it was clear they had been buried in the backyard, and she finally got access to them. So you say, yeah, money was always a problem. What? You know, be careful what you wish for . Gary: Yeah. Really. I think a lot of those guys was more about the game and the power and the lifestyle. [00:33:00] Yeah. Probably than it was about the money. The money’s just kind of the nice little reward that you get. But they liked the power. Gus Russo: It was about Phyllis McGuire in Marilyn Monroe. Gary: You needed, if you can get somebody a job or you get somebody a, yeah, get their court case fixed or. Take care of their traffic tickets or that kind of power. That’s one thing that unions were so good for. I know in Kansas City, like Nick Sabella and some of these underlings, you know, so you went to them or knew them or related. You want a job. They got you a job on a dock down there in the, you know, in the teamsters union, they got you a job, at least on the dock right away. So it’s well, Gus Russo: Mary Humphrey’s daughter Luella, she spent her last years going back and forth to Switzerland to try to find his Swiss bank account because it was, it was well known he had a net and that will probably never be found, but there’s money all around that will never be found in backyards in Switzerland and she thought she had the number of the, of the, of the safe deposit box, but she didn’t. And so yeah, they just couldn’t spend the money. It was really a [00:34:00] weird thing. Gary: So what would be, I guess, kind of, we’re getting down to the end here, what would be one more, a good story about, Gus Russo: Oh, gee let me think. Well, you know, I always think of it and it’s in the book. They, when they became so powerful in Hollywood, they became friendly with all the movie stars and all the singers and they all knew these guys, even though the public never knew who Murray Humphreys was. Yeah. And, and there’s a photo you may have seen in the, in the photo spread of the outfit. And again, where a picture says a thousand words about power. Luella in the early 50s wasn’t getting, didn’t have a date for the prom and she was complaining to her father, Oh daddy, I’m not going to be able to go to the senior dance or whatever. And she said, he says, well, you want a date? I’ll get you a date. I’ll get somebody to take you. Who do you want? And she said, Frank Sinatra. Murray picks up the phone and there’s, and there’s Sinatra. There’s a photo there. The family gave me of Sinatra at her prom. It’s in the photo spread. So, and this was at the [00:35:00] height of Sinatra, you know, he flies to Chicago to take this 16 year old to her dance. Gary: That’s power. And. Gus Russo: So that’s power. That’s just a great story. You know, after we cut off, I’ll probably think of a hundred more, but they’re sort of everywhere. You know, these guys Giancana the time that Phyllis McGuire we’ll probably tell you, you probably don’t have time, but the best, one of the best stories takes a little bit of a setup. Oh, Gary: we got time. Go ahead. We got time. Gus Russo: Okay, good. I became very close with Jean Humphreys and she was a wonderful source of information. She kept a 400 page journal of her life with Murray, and it’s priceless, because she’s a, she was a good writer, and she was in the middle of a lot of it. She wasn’t like home cooking. She was a gangster herself. She was a wannabe. So, she forced Murray to tell her everything. Okay, so, When the Feds are cracking down on her in Key Biscayne, following her around and going to the house, she calls up Murray and complains, Why is Hoover doing this? He never bothered us all these years. Why is this happening? And Murray said, I [00:36:00] can’t tell you, Blondie. And she argues with him. Alright, I’ll tell you something. We had him under control for a while. We we knew some things. What did you know? What did you have? I can’t tell you, Blondie. And she would always pester him, and it was a kind of a funny Lucy Desi relationship. And eventually she would always get it out of him. Oh, we had a photograph. For a long time. And, and what kind of photo? I can’t tell you. Tell me or I’ll do this. So he said, okay, well, remember we used to go over to May Capone’s house and Al Capone’s house on Palm Island in Florida and deliver their money to them. That’s one of the things they did. Al Hoover was going down there around Christmas with his boyfriend across the waterway. They rented a house for, with Clyde Tolson or whoever. And and so Hoover brought all these guys with telescopes to focus on Capone’s house across the water. And they and Capone got so pissed, he got his guys down there and got his guys to get telescopes looking back across at Hoover’s house. And he said, Humphrey said to Gene [00:37:00] one day he left his drapes open. Yeah, and what? Well, we saw he was having sex and Gene said, Gene said, Well, it’s no big deal, everybody has sex. She said, Yeah, but he said, Yeah, but it was with a guy. And so they had that photo. That’s and they actually did a telephoto thing. They got a photo of it. And allegedly this is according to gene who never lied to me. Yeah, this is how they controlled hoover And so gene said well what’s changed? Why is he after us all of a sudden? She said what stupid giancana? He gave a copy of it to sinatra. He gave it to bobby kennedy Now bobby’s blackmailing him So that’s her version of why the feds cracked down in the late 50s That’s stupid giancana Gary: That’s a good one. All right. Well, Gus Russo Russo, I really appreciate you coming on. Those have been some great stories and that’ll tantalize people to want to get some of your Chicago outfit books, particularly the outfit and super mom and the title that, you know, come off the top of my head for sure. And you got a lot more And I’ll have links to it, guys. So I really appreciate you coming on and, and telling these stories, guys. [00:38:00] Oh, I Gus Russo: appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me Garrett. My pleasure. Gary: All right. Well, guys, you know, I like to ride motorcycles, so watch out for motorcycles when you’re out there. And don’t forget if you have a problem with PTSD and you’ve been in the service, go to the VA website and get that hotline number and. Drug and alcohol addiction usually goes hand in hand with PTSD. So, you know, former Gambino soldier, Anthony Ruggiano, works in a treatment center down in Florida. He has a hotline on his website, so if you want to partake of his services, why, you know, give him a shout. Give me a call. If you ever do that, I’d be interested to know how that went for you. And don’t forget to like, and subscribe, or give us a review on the podcast, the apps, the audio apps, and keep coming back. We’ll put a story out every week and, and Gus Russo, I really appreciate these have been some great stories. I’ve been wanting to get you on for a long time. So thanks. Oh, my Gus Russo: pleasure. I’ll do it anytime you need me. Yeah. My, my pleasure here. A lot of fun.
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Gary tells another account of the intriguing and often murky world of crime. In today’s episode, we unfold the gripping tale of how a hapless hitman, Daniel Bounds, was entangled in a web of deceit and betrayal that ultimately led to his demise. An Outfit member named Sam Guzzino orchestrated the entire murder attempt of Al Pilotto. He played a pivotal role in recruiting Bounds. Guzzino provided him with a weapon, trained him, and even supervised the rehearsals leading up to the crime. The chilling revelation unfolds as Guzzino stands by, watching as Daniel Bounds carries out the hit, only to vanish into the night. The Chicago Outfit has its own rules, and hitting a target involves high stakes. We explore the harsh reality that the target might survive if a hit goes wrong – if the bullets or the gun are faulty. Survivors often become dangerous witnesses, turning the tables against their assailants. In the case of Sam Guzzino and Daniel Bounds, this dilemma becomes a crucial aspect of their criminal enterprise.
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Transcript [0:00] Hey guys, hey all you wiretappers out there back here in the studio, Gangland Wire, retired intelligence sergeant Gary Jenkins. I need to do a follow-up on a short one I did about Al Pilotto the other day. I was on Facebook and a gal, Jimmy Free, and thanks for, at Ben Alex, and thanks for reminding me about this. There’s a whole other story about the The murder plot on Al Palato, the Chicago outfit, Southside crew chief leader, labor racketeering guy. He had a case pending at that point in time when this happened. And the outfit decided he needed to go. I mean, Al needs to go. Now, when they say you need to go, you probably need to go. Sam Guzzino and the Inept Hitman
[0:47] Now, let me tell you about exactly how this whole thing went down. Now, I just brushed across the top of it, kind of a fun little story. Sam Guzzino, whose brother Richard Guzzino was in the foursome with Al Pallado. Go back and take a look at that if you haven’t seen it.
[1:05] Sam Guzzino was an outfit member, and he was also the former father-in-law of the hit man on this deal, a guy named Daniel Bounds, who was a cab driver. He had been married to Guzzino’s daughter and fathered a child with her. They’d gotten a divorce, but he needed money, I suspect, and Sam Guzzino knew it. But now, Sam Guzzino is probably not the sharpest tool in the toolbox, wouldn’t you say? Hires this Peckerwood cab driver to do this important hit. This is a pretty important hit, and you don’t want this to go wrong, right? You don’t want this to go wrong. But he tells him, hey, I got a job for you. And Bounds reluctantly, according to the court transcript, accepted this assignment. The Deal and Promises Made
[1:51] Sam, one thing he did, he said, I’ll make sure that you get a lot more access to your daughter. His granddaughter, and so that, and I’ll pay you some money, and he promised him a down payment of $2,000 plus a weekly amount, which was not said exactly what it was, plus another job, but a business that Sam owned, you know, Nate, and that’d be a cab driver in the morning, see his kid a little more often, have $2,000 in cash, not very much money for a murder, if you ask me, me but you know that’s that was the deal he also said after he got into this he said now you understand now you know a hit’s going down get this the other you know the hammer the the carrot and the stick well here comes a stick you know it gets coming down and and you’re not going to be part of it you’re a risk to us and you know i can’t guarantee that how long you’re going to live knowing this information once we go ahead and carry this out and sam told him he said i’m going to make millions from it and we’re going to pass this along to you and we got to do it quick, and first to ask him about was asking well who’s it going to be and and gazino said no he said i’m not telling you just yet. Practice Shooting and Choosing a Location
[3:05] Next day, after Bounds reluctantly agrees, Sam Guzzino and his brother Richard meet at Sam Hanna Cab Company, and that’s where Bounds had been working.
[3:15] He said he expressed confidence in him according to the court transcript. He said, me, I’m too fat to handle this. I’d love to do it. I’d love to hit that guy, but I’m too fat to handle it. And again, he reassured him of all the benefits he was going to get. It still kept him in the dark about who the target was or where it would take place. Then later on, they were joined by another defendant, a guy named Robert Ciarocchi, and he was going to be the weapons man. So they all got in Sam’s car. They went out to a rural area in Will County, which is adjacent to Cook County on the south side, and then a determinative balance could shoot. There’s some basic qualifications of the job, right? You can shoot. They get a rifle out, and there’s a telescope on it, and a silencer at the end. I mean, these guys are very quick. quip this is like james bond stuff here so crotchety took the gun he fired at his sign he hit it sam said you know that’s a little bit loud sirachi said yeah i’ll do some more work on it and balance fired at the sign he missed and actually it said when they wouldn’t look at the sign close the first guy sirachi signed he said it might be siroki he was right on it he merely dented it he He did not even penetrate the sign. So they said they need another gun. They need a better gun.
[4:38] After that target practice that day, they drove over by the Lickenshire Country Club, look it over, and not to play golf. And they went out to the AT. Sam, the AT was close to the road there. And he pointed to the AT and he said, this would be the perfect location. He said, and you could use a handgun. You could use a pistol here.
[4:59] They looked at another tee box and he said, you know, that you could use a rifle there, but, and from a concealed area, but they didn’t really like that. It’s a dumping ground for mob. This Will County is a dumping ground for the mob and the county has no money to really to investigate mob assassinations or any mob stuff. So that’s one reason they chose this country club because it was over in this Will County. It’s kind of interesting. all the thought processes that go into these murders you don’t think about all that there’s this court transcript i found is really detailed so they i drop off see rocky he’s gonna go tail mess with the rifle balance and the two casino brothers walk back to their go drive back to the country club and casino says i’m going out to las vegas for a few days and you guys keep working on on this, work out the details. Buying a Bicycle and Practicing Escaping
[5:54] And one suggestion that Sam had was that our friend Daniel Bounds could use a bicycle to escape after the shooting. He wasn’t really enthusiastic about that idea. I don’t know. This is kind of like, you know, you can take a bicycle to hit, you know, that’s not the way the big boys do it, is it? I don’t think so. Richard Guzzino, the next day, driving his this blue Eldorado Cadillac. I mean, every bump guy’s got to have an Eldorado ride back in these days, the 80s. Picks up Daniel Ballance, and he said, we’re going to go buy a bicycle.
[6:27] They went to a residence. They’re driving in the streets, in the neighborhoods. They find a sign nailed to a tree that says bikes for sale. I’ve seen that. Guy will, well, like I used to have a neighbor like that. He’ll buy old bicycles and fix them up. Put a painted sign out front. He’s always got a bicycle for sale for pretty cheap. They go in, they find an old repainted 10-speed bicycle for 20 bucks.
[6:50] Buy the bicycle for 20 bucks, put it in the trunk, go back, pick up San Guzzino, drive out to the HT for a practice bicycle ride to some other rendezvous point. Bounds tried to ride as fast as he can, but the gears and the chain kept slipping and he wasn’t good on the bicycle. So Bounds retired the bicycle to his basement to his great relief, I think. He didn’t like that bicycle idea. idea his marketmanship left a lot to be desired so they drove back out in the country to a dump area in the will county suburban or rural area of will will county siraki pulled out a 45 caliber pistol and 357 magnum revolver and says hey try this so they got a sign out there there was a keep out sign and and daniel bell bounds emptied both guns into the sign and from about 15 feet and they praised him up said oh great man you’re a great shot with a pistol next day they go back off to the golf course for a make a definite decision on the location for the shooting walk around the at area get back in the car they drive away to see you know what kind of traffic’s around and and where you would go from there they decide that they’ll let him off he He could hide in the trees at a good rendezvous point. We’ll be at a particular place a few blocks away.
[8:17] Now they drive back to the AT and Bounds gets practiced by running. There’s a bridge close by. He gets takes practice by running back to this bridge where they’re going to rendezvous.
[8:32] You can’t make this stuff up, man. Next thing they do is they properly outfit him. And they buy him from a Kmart some dark green coveralls and a baseball cap and a knapsack.
[8:46] And some kind of special boots they were going to buy him some kind of special boots i don’t know what kind of boots then they don’t want to spend the money so sam gazino lent daniel bounds or richard one one of the gazino brothers lent daniel bounds his boots but they were way too big for him then bound says you know i really need a police scanner so i can follow police activities as i’m doing this and discuss this and sam gazino opposed it and he said you don’t really need a scanner her because he’s going to be in the forcing and after the murder he’ll offer to call the police and the ambulance but then flounder around and not do it i mentioned before you know what they do they just run off some neighbor lady actually called the police and then he won’t get the police go so that explains you know what he was gonna he had a plan for that why he didn’t call the police he was gonna act like he did not do it for quite a while so balance was then reassured that there would be plenty of time to get away before anybody called the police but they did let balance get a scanner but he had to buy it without his own money he went to radio shack so he bought a citizen’s band radio because he couldn’t find the right kind of scanner i probably couldn’t find a portable scanner those bearcat scanners they were selling back then usually when they weren’t handheld so the cb radio you get a walkie talkie a cb radio walkie talkie so he shows Guzzino and he says no that’s not what you want so he goes back and he gets a more powerful CB radio.
[10:15] Give it a field test they can’t make it work go back and get a refund I mean this is like the March Brothers the Keystone Cops of hits so I made all these preparations this is down in Chicago Heights for you guys the Chicago Heights guys pick up some videotapes to take to Sam Guzzino there but his mother 75th birthday party kind of mixing a little business and pleasure here i guess, He shows them on his videocassette recorder to these guys. But here’s why they’re showing it to him. Al Palato is in there. And he points out, he said, that’s the guy we want to hit.
[10:52] And Daniel Bounce knew him and knew who he was. And he also knew that his brother was the, Al Palato’s brother was the Chicago Heights chief of police. And he was not too happy about it. But, you know, he was, he was in it over his head now. I mean, there’s just no way. Sam’s plan to eliminate Al with specific instructions.
[11:07] Sam tried to like convince him. He said, look. luck he said this al is 71 years old he’s got a case in miami we’re afraid he’s gonna spill some names don’t worry it’s been blessed that means you know it’s been okayed all the way up to tony accardo i would imagine at the time so you know don’t worry and he goes over additional details keeps having to kind of buck him up bounds was instructed okay when al comes up the guy you just saw in that video comes up to the tee in the golf cart hit him as soon as he stops puts his left foot out on the ground they must have known he always drove of course whoever sam was probably riding with him so he’d make sure he drove and he said be careful because i’m gonna be in the i’m gonna be with him and he said now if if you make any noise you got to come out fast because he’ll take take off so you better come out shooting but again if you come out shooting you know don’t hit me this is crazy so they set it up this is like a thursday the next day friday they do a final dress rehearsal before it was going to happen on a saturday uh you know we always play golf on saturdays gazino picks up bounds drops him off at the eighth he hides in the bus sam gazino rides Lies up in a golf cart. Final dress rehearsal for the mission.
[12:27] Sam got out of the cart and said loud enough to Bounds to hear, are you there? Bounds said, yeah. And he said, okay, take off. So he took off running, ran down to the rendezvous point. They timed that. This is like Mission Impossible here.
[12:42] Saturday arrives, bounds, shaves off. He has a mustache. He shaves off his mustache. He made him a nylon stock mask. So this Sirocchi picks him up about 2.20 in the morning. They go over to Sirocchi’s apartment. Sirocchi loads up both the pistols, the .45 and the .357, wipes them down, wipes the ammunition down, makes sure there’s no fingerprints on them, gives him a pair of gloves, which are way too big, which means it’s really hard to get your finger in the trigger. Liquor i’m telling you these guys anybody wants to come and hit me i’ll was these guys. Sam confirms everything is a go at 5 am.
[13:16] So sam stops by and says okay everything’s a go is about five o’clock in the morning so they’re gonna be teeing off at 6 a.m that’s an early tea time man you only do those in the summertime, you must they must have got the first tea tea time of the day which is kind of hard to do usually got a bunch of old guys maybe casino play there all the time so he always had that early that first tee time. Bounds has got a scanner by now in his backpack that he’s wearing and they head out about eight o’clock. They were going to be at the course by 8.30 and of course you tee off at six. It’s going to take you a little over two hours to get to the eight to nine tees. It depends on how fast you play. Of course, Sam’s kind of running the things and he could slow down and speed up as they go. Daniel Bounds gets in the bushes pretty soon. He sees a golf cart coming up. He recognizes Pilotto he recognizes who’s with him and actually uh sam wasn’t going to be with him sam wasn’t going to sit in the end sam didn’t sit in the golf cart with him he had this other guy nicholas busci sitting and he didn’t know anything about the deal they had another guy was i think i mentioned this for rudy bomanti and he was in sam’s golf cart and they were all played at this club and playing their regular for four or five years so they get up to the 18 Pilotto gets out he tees off he hits his tee shot greatest tee shot ever i was just kidding before but i don’t know if it was or not walks back while the others get up and start hitting their balls. Bounds takes the shot, hits Pilotto in the shoulder.
[14:40] Bounds that bounds where is he sam they’re like going hey bounds here sam say go ahead and shoot.
[14:50] Assuming sam was talking to him and not just telling sam’s golfing partners to you all, that’s what he was doing he’s telling somebody else you know go ahead and shoot pounds comes out shoots from a distance hit hits Pilotto in the shoulder gets up and walks out back into the bushes Pilotto fell down hold his hands up and pleads to him not to shoot again but he’d already shot three times at close range fuchsia has run off the other way and is hiding behind the tree bounds turns to leave has another miss or fire fires again almost hits himself in the foot and he takes off running left his knapsack there gets to the uh rendezvous point and sirocco is not there yeah. The Gang’s Failed Hit on Al Pilotto
[15:36] They load, put their golf towels on Pilotto, load him in the golf cart, and then they drive around a little bit and act like they’re trying to find a phone, which they can’t for a while. But like I said, some neighbor went ahead and called that in. So that’s the story that day when they hit Al Pilotto. That’s a heck of a story, isn’t it? The gang that couldn’t shoot straight. The Marx Brothers do a hit in Chicago. A lot of other Chicago outfits have gone down a lot smoother than that. Just go check out the Family Secrets Trial and hear Nicholas Calabrese talk about the hits that they do. I know I heard his nephew talking about, and he told me, I think, in the podcast interview I did with him with Calabrese Jr., Frank Calabrese Jr. He said, you know, we call it lay on a guy. We’ll lay on a guy for a month or weeks.
[16:29] And then, like he said, he’s hidden in a refrigerator box. That’s a pretty good scam. Get a big refrigerator box, set it out on the street, and you can get in it, and you can be really up close, and usually nobody will mess with it, and then it’s gone the next day, usually sneak out later. So they’re pretty inventive in Chicago, but these guys on the south side, San Guzzino was not. So thanks a lot, guys. It’s just one more of the stories, the seven million stories of the naked city of Chicago. Chicago’s Inventive Crime Tactics
[16:56] I really have fun with this story here. It is a good one. And don’t forget, I like to ride motorcycles. So watch out for motorcycles when you’re out there. And if you have a problem with PTSD, be sure and go to the website that the VA has and get that hotline number and hand in hand with PTSD is a drug and alcohol addiction. You don’t have to be in the VA to get hold of our friend, Anthony Ruggiano, I’m losing my mind sometimes, Anthony Ruggiano and get his hotline number on his website or his YouTube page. He’s a drug and alcohol counselor himself down in Florida. And don’t forget to like and subscribe and tell your friends about the podcast, whether it be the audio or the video podcast. We’re all over the place. Got a great Facebook page called Gangland Wire Podcast.
[17:42] Got over 50,000 people on it. A lot of great discussions about the mob and, you know, personal people that have personal connections to it and to the neighborhoods. Appreciation and Future Storytelling
[17:50] So it’s a lot of fun. we just keep coming back and and i really appreciate it again to my friend bill bill.
[18:00] Ben Ellickson from chicago asking me didn’t they use a bicycle as part of this and with at jimmy free who i don’t know who commented i need to do a second part and tell the whole story and he’s right so thanks a lot guys.
The post Anatomy of a Golf Course Muder Part 2 appeared first on Gangland Wire.
Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. In 1981, Southside Outfit crew chief Al Pilotto was still watching his tee shot in the air on the 8th hole at Lincolnshire Country Club when a gunman stepped out from behind the bushes and started shooting. Al survived and will die a natural death. The hitman was an amateur hired by one of the golfers, Sam Guzzino. In the end, Guzzino’s brother, Richard Guzzino, and Robert Ciarrocchi were convicted of training and arming Daniel Bounds to murder Pilotto. The Outfit took care of Sam Guzzino in the usual manner. Daniel Bounds testified and left town. Check out Part 2 for an anatomy of how this murder was carefully planned by the Marx Brothers and carrried out by the keystone cops. Support the Podcast Subscribe to get new gangster stories every week.
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To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast. Donate to the podcast. Click here! [0:00] Hey guys, welcome all you wiretappers. Gary Jenkins, retired Kansas City Intelligence Unit detective here, back in the house again. Hey, I got a short story here for you again. Al Pilotto, he was a Chicago outfit crew leader, if you will, crew chief of the Southside crew. He was also big in the labor union racketeering. He was the head of Local 5 in the Laborers International Union. Union. They liked to play golf. Al Pilotto’s Assassination Attempt on the Golf Course
[0:31] Now, he was out playing golf on a nice warm July day back in, oh, when was that? Back in 1980-something, 30 years ago or so. Anyhow, Tony Splattro was out in Las Vegas. Tony Accardo was running the outfit at the time because they both were co-defendants on a labor racketry charge. And like I said, he was out playing golf. He was He was playing with one particular guy was Sam Guzzino. And there was Rudy Bamonte and Nick Fusci. Early in the morning, 8 o’clock in the morning, they were just on the AT at the Lincoln Shire. It was 1981 is what it was. I just glanced up to see what it was.
[1:17] Anyhow, he had a great tee shot off that AT, they say. And somebody jumped out behind the bush that was there and started shooting at him. and shot him four or five times with a handgun and ran off. Well, he goes down with his golf partners and supposes shot golf partners. These guys, I don’t know if they teed up and played on through and left him back there, or they just ran off. They didn’t call the police is the main point I’m trying to make here. Lack of Police Involvement and Speculation on Motives
[1:45] They did not call the cops. Some neighbor lady heard the shots and called the police, and they came driving up looking to see what was going on there. There’s our friend Al Pilotto, bleeding like a stung hog, probably. So they take him to the hospital. He survives this assassination attempt, which there’s no other way to put it. It was an assassination attempt. And Al Pilotto, if you think about it, his chief enforcer was Billy Dauber, who was killed by some of the guys that worked under Joey Lombardo, through the wild bunch in angelo la pietra so you know his chief enforcer had been killed they had these they had a kind of a war in that south side what they called the chop shop war there’s a bunch of people been killed in that war so you know with these mob heads you have to really look around for the motives and see who benefits but again like i said he had a. Al Pilotto’s Indictment and Potential Motives for the Hit
[2:46] Indictment coming going down with tony accardo and you know maybe they were worried that he might talk although you know if you think about it in the outfit nobody’s ever talked especially somebody’s 70 years old spent his whole life in the outfit and and this is a racketeering thing i don’t think it wasn’t like a murder case where it was faced with death or something like that or probably not even life in prison although 70 years old you know a stiff sentence can be life basically but somebody wanted him out of the way there’s no doubt about it some some speculation that joy the crown lombardo i mentioned before wanted to take over his crew was a pretty ambitious guy he had his state taylor not taylor street crew the grand avenue so they kept him in the hospital the saint james hospital chicago heights this is like chicago heights is on the south side this is kind of like the boys from chicago heights the modern iteration of that crew who kept him under guard for 24 hours a day for several days while he healed up the local chief of police, Michael Siebert. Al Pilotto’s Hospitalization and Speculation by Chief of Police
[3:49] I don’t know, and he was probably a little bit shaky himself. He said it was probably a mob hit, and it was just lucky he didn’t get killed.
[3:57] Pilotto, of course, said, I don’t know who did it, and he nearly did, and I don’t think he did at all. It’s some unknown guy. It wasn’t somebody he knew, but his golf partners knew. They knew a lot about it. And there was a lot of rumor and speculation as i said the the fbi here’s a classic statement by them let me see what this says we don’t know the contract yet anytime you have something like that somebody waiting for somebody on the golf course it appears it could have been well yeah you had to know that he was on the golf course that morning and you had to know about what time he got to the eighth oh you know you could figure that out if you knew the teacher but yeah and And especially if you’re playing, one of your partners is setting this deal up. FBI’s Statement and Possible Motives for the Hit
[4:40] The FBI said, you know, who knows? He’s 70 years old. He might not want to take in a long prison term. Somebody might have worried about him caving in. As I said before, there’s no way that he would have been a Turk. So not at that point in his life.
[4:56] Eventually, two former Chicago Heights men will be convicted of orchestrating this bungled assassination. fascination. And this golf course is in Crete, Illinois, which is a suburb out there. I’m not sure where that is, but Richard Guzzino, remember that name Guzzino? He was playing with a guy named Guzzino, wasn’t he? And another named Robert Ciarochi were found guilty by a federal court of conspiracy, obstruction, injustice, and unlawful use of a weapon because they didn’t kill him.
[5:28] At a three-week trial, they were looking at 20 years in prison. Well, how they got him, they hired a taxi driver named Bounds, B-O-U-N-D-S, who, when they got him, brought him in, he said, you know, I ain’t going down for this.
[5:46] And so he rats them out. He also tells about how Sam Guzzino set him up, got him a gun trained him and and you know helped him practice set the whole deal up and was standing there while mr bounds david bounds daniel bounds while he popped out and shot him and ran off Sam Guzzino you know the you know the sentence you know you know the deal in Chicago if you try to to hit somebody like the two guys that hit tokyo joe or the Japanese guy joe suddenly i forgot his last name Tokyo joe he was a couple i didn’t get too so and i can’t remember the other guy’s name tried to hit him they they used bad gun or bad bullets and hit him in the head but he didn’t die and then he testified against a lot of people which is the problem if you don’t try to hit somebody they don’t die they’re going to testify against you aren’t they well Sam Guzzino recruited Daniel Bounds and, you know, the older brother of one of the actual hitmen that took a conviction on it. Recruitment of Hitman and Subsequent Death of Recruit
[6:52] And two months after this attempt, he was found dead with his throat cut in a ditch in the south southern suburbs. So that sounds like the Calabrese necktie, doesn’t it? Your throat cut.
[7:03] So that’s another little Chicago story of a bungled head up there. But nobody was talking, really. I mean, just the hitman who, you know, how do you do that? that you give it to Guzzino, who then gives it to his brother, who then gives it to some taxi driver.
[7:24] This is just, that’s like disaster. Had disaster written all over. Anyhow, another short story out of the Chicago outfit. It’s always an interesting place up there. I got to get back up there and do another tour. Conclusion and Shoutouts to Chicago Contacts
[7:37] Gus Alex up there and Ben Alexson, and he both promised to take me out for lunch or dinner or something. And so, and I did that with, with Ben before and Gus Alex and sent me a lot of information about Chicago. So this goes out to you guys. I know you like me doing these Chicago outfit stories. Appreciate it. Don’t forget if you have a problem with PTSD and you’ve been in the service.
[8:00] Go to their website va website and get that hotline and get some help there if you have a problem drugs or alcohol that goes hand in hand with ptsd why go see our friend Anthony Ruggiano down in florida he’s got a hotline number on his website or his youtube channel it’s Anthony Ruggiano former Gambino soldier and you know don’t forget i like to ride motorcycles i got my thing mixed up there a little bit like to keep you all guessing i like to ride motorcycles so watch out out for motorcycles when you’re out there don’t forget to like and subscribe tell your friends about us go to my gangland wire podcast group got about 50 000 members now and i think only about 10 i’ve listened to the podcast i don’t know i can’t figure out what the deal is but most of them don’t even know they they make comments you’ll find you guys will find this funny because you know who i am you know they make comments about their rats on this page oh but there’s rats i bet law Law enforcement reads this. Oh, man. I made a comment one time. I said, well, this page is ran by a cop. And a group is ran by a cop. And this guy’s just like, oh, gives me some kind of a weird, you know, like those little eyeballs that stick up and decide, I don’t know. It’s a crazy world, this mob world. Sharing Stories of Al Capone and Other Infamous Figures
[9:15] But we have fun doing it. And I really appreciate you guys tuning in and listening, because i know you like the more down and dirty kind of if i do a story about Al Capone i don’t do his life story because everybody knows that i do a story about the time he almost shot her he did shoot himself on the golf course or some of these stories like al Pilotto getting shot on the the eight toll at the lincolnshire country club but those kinds of details like if you live up there you probably might drive by there you know say hey just eight oh maybe go play golf there it’s an idea hey guys when i come up in chicago somebody take me out to the lincolnshire golf course probably a public course i’m sure uh i have to rent some clubs if i want to ride the motorcycle up but but i’d like to play out there sometime if it’s still going let me know thanks a lot guys.
The post Murder on the Golf Course Part 1 appeared first on Gangland Wire.
Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. In this episode, we have a special guest, Jack Amato, who shares his experiences growing up in Sicily and the United States. He talks about his father’s encounters with the mafia and their journey from owning a restaurant in Brooklyn to buying a luncheonette in Glendale. Jack discusses how his father dealt with tough guys and troublemakers in the neighborhood, sometimes reaching out to wise guys for assistance. He also shares his experiences in the lunch wagon business and his involvement with figures like Joe Massino and Rusty Rastelli. The conversation then delves into the early days of running lunch wagons and catering businesses. Jack Amato discusses the relationships formed with prominent figures in the industry, such as mafia members like Joe Massino and Rusty Rastelli. They talk about the buying and selling of products, including cigarettes without a stamp, and the arrangement in which a percentage of sales would be paid to Joe Massino for the items provided. Jack Amato describes his personal experiences and interactions with various mobsters. He shares stories of confrontations, alliances, and even getting shot in the stomach during a robbery attempt. He discusses his decision to focus on the pizzeria business and interact with figures like Pizza Connection conspirators like Baldo Amaro and Cesar Bonaventura. Jack also relates his involvement in bookmaking and other ventures, including opening a maintenance and cleaning business. The conversation then turns as Jack Amato discusses legal troubles, accusations, and encounters with law enforcement. They talk about Jack being arrested and facing serious charges, including attempted murder and conspiracy. Jack Amato maintains his innocence and describes the pressure to cooperate with authorities. They also discuss the changing dynamics within the mob and the different power figures that emerged. Support the podcast. Subscribe to get new gangster stories every week.
Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee”
To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here
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Transcript [0:00] Welcome, all you wiretappers out there. Good to be back here in the studio. Gangland Wire, you know, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins here. And I have a really interesting, different sort of an interview. We’ve got a man from Sicily. I started noticing this man on our podcast page. Gangland Wire podcast was posting and he has a book that he’s written and it tells about his life, you know, both in Sicily and when he came over. And when he came over, his family ended up, you know, getting jobs and being around some of the Bonanno families. So he has a lot of experiences with this from, shall we say, from the, not really from the associate side, not even associate, more like from just somebody that lived in the neighborhood and people that had to do business with mob guys and with his roots in Sicily. So his name is Jack Amato. So welcome, Jack.
[0:57] Thank you for getting me to your show. You invited me to your show. Well, I’m really anxious to have you now. A Father’s Belief, part one. That’s the name of your book, correct? Yes, yes. All right, and you can get that on Amazon, I believe, can’t you? Yeah. Let’s move along. In this next segment, let’s move along to your life in the United States. And as your father, you know, he had a restaurant and there were mafia around and they had the lunch wagon business. And so as you grew up and grew into that and those people were in your life, let’s talk about that. Okay. All right, so. So like I said, we were in Brooklyn working along for showman, you know, my father was working there and my schooling, I didn’t make it to junior high school. And so my father wanted to get us out of there, but he wanted us to go in the pizza business. That was a thing for immigrants to go in to make pizza. That was a big deal. So we learned to make the pizza, me and my brothers.
[2:08] And my father, with the help of my older brother, because he already was in America, he knew his way around, We found this place that it was a luncheonette in Glendale with a house for us to live in, you know, and we bought that house and we took over the luncheonette. There’s a story in my book about the transaction. And like I said, there was a pizzeria two blocks away, not even, a block and a half. They were doing good. They were the only ones there. There was Sicilian too and they were related to the Gambino. Okay. Okay. And. But we bought a luncheonette, we’re going to convert it into a pizza place, you know, and keep the counter with the ice cream and the milkshake, you know, but have a pizzeria luncheonette. So when we start doing work to rebuild out, we got a visit from two guys. And actually, I ended up talking to them. I broke the language. My father didn’t even speak English. My older brother, too, and they want to say, who’s the owner here, right?
[3:24] So I said, it’s my father, it’s family-owned, why? You know, why? I was already a tough guy. I was 15 now.
[3:35] I’ve been seeing it all, and I heard about, you know, being getting shagged down, that you got to pay protection money, you know, which I already learned that from being in Brooklyn, with the Gallo brothers, you know? I mean, I don’t think they did that. I don’t think they, I think they just did their own business, bookmaking, Sherlock, you know, any stolen goods from the ship, you know, the longshoreman, you know, stolen goods. There was no drugs, really that I have to say heroin? No, it was a big thing was the numbers shy and selling stolen good, you know, and that was it, you know. And if somebody else wanted a favor or something, they paid for the favor. That’s how they made money, you know. So I was familiar with that. But anyway, so I said, my father does not speak English, so what’s the problem? So he says, well, you know, you got to bring your father here, you know, before they talk to me. He says you could translate. So I called my father and told him, and said, you guys want to talk? And he said, you know, you can open up a pizzeria here because there’s a pizzeria here.
[4:57] So, instead of a little conversion, my father took the guy and threw him out, grabbed him by the arm. You know, he was a fisherman, pulled the boat, you know, I mean, he was strong, he was not, you know, he could hurt you by just squeezing his hand. So he says, you know, go take a walk, you know, and throw him out. The guys are like, you know, they didn’t do that. They left. So my father reached out and he went to the other pizzeria. Went to the guy’s place. You know, on a Friday night when they’re busy. Got to learn. And he told the guy, you know, he says, listen, people came to my place. They mentioned your name. We should not open a pizzeria. And the guy goes, I don’t know nothing about it. I don’t know nothing about it. So my father told him, OK, I’ll tell you something about it. Anything happens to my place. I’m going to come here and put you in the oven.
[6:03] Oh, in the oven. Right in the oven. So my father didn’t go alone. He took a couple of guys with him, you know, longshoremen. showman. Right away, my father didn’t wait for anything to happen. He reached out for the wise guys, which in the area, 18th Avenue, Williamsburg. You know, there’s a lot of paisans over there. I want to know if anybody know this pizzeria. So sure enough, you know, they find out what you would belong to. They came in and that. The people that were involved with the guy, you know, came to apologize. You know, it was a misunderstanding, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that was it. And that was the first experience I got seeing my father in action. The second action I seen him, there was the group of bad boys, I guess, in the neighborhood. They go drinking, to bars, then come in on weekends. You know, we had a jukebox. And you split the money with the guy who gives you the jukebox. They would come in and play jukebox, start dancing in the place, and they used to get out of there. So one night, my father had a, he told me, who’s the tough guy here? You know, who’s the leader?
[7:31] So there was the other kids working, he says, he’s the leader, you know, the pinpointer. So my father one day was in the kitchen, you know, like I said, he had his friends too, you know, from the other side, from Italy. So, and he wanted to teach this kid, you know, a lesson. So they were making mess out of the pizzeria, you know, my father came out and said, pick it up, you know, he was throwing napkins and dishes. And the guy started making his hands like, you know, rough and cool, you know, but that my father went crazy, you know, grabbed him by the throat, you know, and pulled out a knife, put it in his neck.
[8:18] Like, you know, like, and the other guys, and he’s a Sicilian. I kill you, you know, I kill you. You don’t do this here, this is my house, you know. Anyway, they became good friends after that. There was no more trouble. Your father had reached out to somebody when he first got this threat from the other pizza place. And so he reached out to somebody to start asking about who were they, were they connected? Now, who did he reach out to? Do you remember who that was? Well, there was coffee shop. You know, people from the town, Carini, there was, what do you call it, a residence there, you know, and they knew, how do you say, the Gambino was next door neighbor for my town, Torretta. It was like 15 minutes away. Okay. So we knew the Gambino from system. All right. I got you now. Okay. So that’s how it reached out. But Carlo Gambino was American, came in America like me, a young kid. You know what I mean? Yeah, I know what you mean. He was in America, he was American. He was, what do you call it, from Sicily.
[9:43] He became Carlo Gambino, the boss over here in America. So same thing with Joe Bonanno, a lot of these guys, they came my age. You know, the developer to make money. At that time, there was the liquor, right? The liquor, I mean, the wine, the liquor, right? Huntry Ben. Mm-hmm, yeah, the probation was going on, yeah. He wasn’t really reaching out to. Anybody who was he knew was in the mafia, but he reached out to other people he knew from his area in Sicily that had been there for a while to find out who am I dealing with? And then he finds out he’s not dealing with anybody that’s going to be come back and kill him and burn him out. It sounded to me like he figured out who they were. Right. Because you already He knew that he told the guy from the pizza place. Threats and Apologies at the Glendale Pizzeria
[10:37] That they were the place who has a Glendale pizzeria. He told the guy, if anything happens to my place or my kids, I’m gonna come here and put you in the oven. Okay, all right. I don’t care who does it, who it is, I’m holding you responsible. So that’s all over now. That’s all over. Like you don’t hear anything back from them. They even come and apologize for what he said. Her father went away. He wanted to show that he was serious. So, yeah, but he heard that he was related with the Gambino. He put a word with his spies on to find out who this guy is really connected with. OK. OK. And it turned out to be that he was married to one of the cousins from the Gambino.
[11:27] No affiliation with them off, just using their name. I gotcha. I gotcha. That’s how it came to that. All right. All right. I’m sorry. I just needed to straighten that out in my own mind. Your father’s a tough dude and he runs a good place and there’s no hanky-panky and there’s no young kids doing anything wrong. We talked about the lunch wagon business and CINO and Rusty Rastelli and all that. So where does that come in here with the lunch wagon business? Okay, well, what happened is I came of age, you know, 20 years old, and I found a girl I was in love with. I was working seven days a week and weekends, and I didn’t want to do it no more. You know, I wanted to spend time with my girl.
[12:16] I wanted to take her out, because we were working all the time. So I said that, I don’t want to do this no more, you know, I’m two years gone. So what happened was the girl that I met, she was related to Joe Massino, Salvatore. Salvatore was the bloodline. In other words, our mother and Salvatore are brothers and sisters. And Joe Massino was married to one of the sisters. And he had the catering business. Just a wagon. That’s all he had. He was working with the wagon. I asked him, you know, if there’s a wagon I could buy. Now Sal got into it first with the business. He finally dropped a wagon for Sal Vakhali to buy. So he bought it first, I bought it second. So we were like family. You know, we were in there. And Sal Vitale, Sal Vitale and he was a brother-in-law to Joe Massino. Yeah. Okay.
[13:23] But Sal Vitale was my mother-in-law’s brother. Okay. So my wife is niece, blood niece. All right, I gotcha. So you guys are running lunch wagons and Joe Massino has a catering business. Not yet. Not yet. He bought it soon afterwards. He bought a JJ, what they call a JJ Cater, JJ, you know, Deli, a mess, a mess in the factory. And that’s where the story starts. Early Morning Load-Up at Issylo for Delivery Routes
[14:04] The wagon, we will load up from Issylo, it was called Issylo, where we get the milk, everybody will come there, the danishes, the milk, soda, the ice, there’s a load up place for the coffee truck. So three o’clock in the morning, four o’clock in the morning. We all lined up there to get our product and then everybody dispatched to go to the factory, the territory that was unionized by Rusty Rustelli. Yeah, Rusty Rustelli had already formed his organization. Yeah. And he ran this easy load place. He didn’t run it, he was the boss. He was the boss. His brothers, his brothers. There was a Marty Louis Rastelli, the other brother Carmine with the Islanders, what do you call it? He was in the union. He would do something else. Okay. Okay. But then they sold you the product that you then went out, but you had a certain area, certain factories that you serviced. Yes. And then you resold the product and kept the profit and then came back and bought it again.
[15:27] My truck was mine. I bought the truck with the route, we call it route. Route. I don’t know, I’ve been there with the coach, I never heard of that. Roach wagon, yeah. I never heard of that. Well, that’s a derogatory term for it. Okay, I don’t know. I used to think we were gypsies. Yeah. You know what I mean? You were like a gypsy in my head. I never heard of a rote, but they call it rote. People were happy. Yeah. You know, we’d go there, bring them coffee, lunch. You could stop in the gas station, too. You know, and the guy goes, oh, can I get something? Can I get it? Well, you’re getting gas. You know, we’d get hot coffee, hot chocolate, you know, everything. Sandwich, hot and cold. Everything was going good, my relationship with Tomasino, you know, we were like family. But then I got very close to Marty Rostello, that’s the boss’s brother.
[16:28] Marty. And he got to like me a lot, you know. And brother Luger got to like me too. Then the nephew Luger, which is the name of his father, he was like a son to Rostelli. You know, Phil Russell, he was Phil, never had a son, he was always in jail. So he never had a family. So that was his protege for this, you know, his son. So he loved that kid, you know, when he was he was a kid. It was five years old. I was 40, was 25, already married. So we got along very good, being that he had this JJ Daly, you know, we’re both sandwiches from that. So Rusty helped him to hold the truck to go buy sandwiches from him, you know. So maybe he was getting kickbacks. Joe Massino as a Fence for Stolen Goods
[17:26] I don’t know, but a lot of stolen goods were going through that process. So everybody would get products, cigarettes, you know, and would watch them selling cigarettes, stolen goods, you know, to be anything. We were selling the truck, pick up numbers, take a bookmaking action. So everybody was making money.
[17:52] So all the drivers had an opportunity as you would pick up your milk and coffee and all that. At one place you’d go to Joe Massino’s to get the sandwiches. He was making out the sandwiches. He had people making sandwiches. Yeah. And then was it at Joe Massino’s that then if you wanted to pick up parlay cards for sports booking or cigarette, extra cigarettes that were stolen cigarettes, untaxed cigarettes, or whatever, if they had, somebody had a load of little, the calculators or whatever they happened to have. Maybe you had some clothes, had some, some coats that somebody had had gotten a shipment, taking a shipment off the docks and got a bunch of coats, men’s coats or something, and you’d throw them on the truck, you’d hit your stops. And then you had these other items to sell. Is that kind of how that worked? Yes. Bill became a fence for the wise guys. All right. He was the fence. People would go bring stuff to him.
[18:50] And he would give it out to the drivers because everybody wants to make a buck. Yeah, I understand. There was no killing, there was no stealing. It was you would sell product, whatever it is. Could be a jacket, could be a coat, jogging shoes, sneakers, shoes, you know, that was it. So Joe, he became very important to some people because he was the fan. And I’m always curious exactly how these things work.
[19:23] Did you buy that, for example, you had five cartons of cigarettes. Did you buy those cigarettes from him for, you know, say half what you might sell them for and then sell them for retail? Or did he just give them to you and you brought him all the money back for the stolen property, then he gave you some of that? How did that work? Well, you work the percentage. Okay, percentage. In other words, yeah, so they give you a hundred cartons of cigarettes, right, we used to say like $2 a pop, $2 a carton, then you could sell it whatever you want for it, but you had to pay him back his $2 that he wanted for each carton. Okay. So if it was a hundred cartons, you owe him $200, and then if you sold it for $3, you made $100. Okay. But that stuff was moving so fast.
[20:14] Not bad. Before you got it, people bought it because it was cheap. Yeah. There was cigarettes without a stamp, bringing it from North Carolina or whatever, Virginia.
[20:26] Everybody was happy. Joe got very, how do you say, moved up and not leave because he had that JJ Dolly. You know, and it was me. Growing Distrust Towards Joe Massino
[20:42] I found them very not trustworthy. Oh, he wasn’t like a Sicilian guy. It was more American, but third descent, third generation. Interesting. Was there something that was there something that he did or did you just watch, you know, how he dealt with people that caused you to distrust him? Yeah. The thing was that he was just a bad mouth, his brother-in-law, Sal. Okay. Because Sal, he had three sisters, and his mother, which would be Joe Massino’s mother-in-law, adores Sal. Spoil him, you know, like he’s the boy in the family, and you know, and he was always just to say, I didn’t come that way, you know, my mother didn’t give me shit, you know, my mother never gave me anything, so you know, so I used to put it so, how could you, he He loves you like a brother, right? He’s got no brother, he’s got a sister, right? He does anything for you. And you need a guy like him, really, because he was dedicated. He loved the life.
[21:52] Become a mafioso, you know? Because he came from Sicily too, his father. He was born there. Yeah, but his father, Sal’s father was born in Sicily. Yeah, the whole brothers, sisters too, you know? So they came from San Joseph, you know, like it’d be a mountain, Corleone. It went from the mountain. So they were like more familiar with that kind of mafia, you know. But they were good people. They were not bad people. I mean, you got guys that just like to show off. They are killing people because you’re giving the wrong look or said the wrong thing, you know. And most of the guys like that don’t last, you know. Because they’re not wanted, you know, you gotta be, you gotta be a good guy, you know, you gotta be, help the people, not hurt the people, you know, you protect them. That was the true mafiosi, you know, you protect, you’re the hero.
[22:56] You’re not the, you know, that’s how I came, that’s where I came from. So, Joe Massino was much more Americanized and much more about business. And you could tell that by just how he conducted himself. Is that what I hear you say? Yes. Yes. The only thing you’d like to steal.
[23:18] Who bad mouthed whoever he thought he could bad mouth. So to me, I wasn’t, it didn’t excite me. The way he could bad mouth his brother-in-law, he’s gonna bad mouth me. So anyway, to move on with the story with the wagon, I got close to Marty and I got closer with Rastelli too. Getting Closer to Marty and Rastelli
[23:40] Because when he came home from prison, there was a war between Galante, not really a war, who was going to be the boss between Galante and Rastelli. Because they were both appointed to run the family. Once, you know, Joe Bannano left for Arizona, somebody else was put on, the guy died. These guys were working under Joe Bonanno. You know, Joe Bonanno was the boss. They say he ran away, did this, He did that, you know, the government puts out a lot of things that even today, you see the news people, right? Yeah. They put out a lot of stuff that you don’t even know if you’re coming or going believe what you watch on CNN, what’s over here. So that’s what was going on. A lot of these people don’t understand the truth, what happened.
[24:37] And when Joe Bonanno was in Arizona every time, he didn’t care about it anymore, you because he wanted to go to Vegas, he wanted to see New Megan. It was already in Canada with the heroin. I mean, Rizzuto. Phil Rizzuto, you heard of him? Vito Rizzuto from Montreal, yes. Yeah, yeah. That was his people. So he didn’t need New York no more. He knew New York was the time, used to call it, I guess, people say it’s like a common bomb. Any time it could explode. Yeah. And it still happens today, right? Yeah. Right. It’s not like used to be dead, you know. So let me interject just a minute here for you guys. He mentioned Galante is a man named Carmine Galante who had come up in the Bonanno organization, and he was a he wanted to deal heroin. And like Bonanno wanted to deal heroin and it was all coming through Canada and that was his thing. He comes back out of prison during this time, around this time that Jack’s talking about, and he just says, I’m the boss of the Bonanno family and Rusty Rastelli’s out here, who Jack is connected to. Most people want Rusty Rastelli to be the boss. They don’t really want Carmine Galante to be the boss. So that’s kind of where we are, guys.
[26:04] You got it, you’re saying it right. All right, go ahead, go ahead. Okay, so I kept my distance going through the, I would just pick up my sandwich and go, but I would be hanging out with Marty, you know, it was another fellow from Tommy D, younger, young guy that was like very close to them related. So he became my friend, close friend, And we would go play cards by Marty. There was another guy, was a 400 pound beastie. His name was Beastie, 400 pound guy. Yeah, it was like the enforcer with the coffee truck. You know, this guy would come to you and tell you, hey, you got to pay your dues. What do you do? You know, you pay your dues.
[26:54] So, and there was another guy, you know, and then we used to hang out with Marty. And Phil Rastelli liked that, and Phil Rastelli told me, you know, I’m not going to be around too much, but help my brother out if you need you to drive him somewhere, go somewhere. And that was the relationship built out. But now, matter of fact, one day, he was stuck in Isilo, his brother was supposed to come and pick him up. His brother, Carmine, was supposed to go to pick up his car because he was getting clean. He just came home from being away, you know, jail. So he was stuck there. Nobody was there. Everybody was afraid to go near him because there was this conflict with the Galante group, right? And Joe Massino didn’t know which where to go then. Of course, the other guy is, well, he said, he’s the boss. And the other guy says, he’s the boss. So you don’t know where to go.
[28:03] So I seen him, he was trained. And I said to him, I said, well, you got to go. I take. He looked at me, said, no, thank you. Don’t worry about it. Don’t worry about it. He knows I was close already to his brothers. He didn’t want to get me involved. Yeah, I see. Yeah. You know, he was trying to be, you know, go home, go home. But no, I take, you know, so he says, go home, kid. You know, I said, I’m going to take a note for an answer. I want to take you. I drive. I thought of eyes looking at his wife. All right. So I took him and I took him to Astoria. I wish cause he’s getting scarred. But in the car, he seemed like to know about. He knew about my father.
[28:53] You know, and he tells me don’t trust nobody. Don’t step on nobody’s toe. Just be good. Don’t try to be like some of these assholes, you know? You know, run around like with no brain and do stupid things. Look at me, I’m in jail for all my life, right? So when I come, I got no kids, I got no family, right? The only thing I know is being a mobster, you know? That’s it, you know? So I’m looking at him, I go, you’re the boss, you know what I’m saying, you’re the boss. But he didn’t think that he was happy with, you know, the life he spent, all his life. So we had a good relationship. But with that, the word got out that I took Phil for a ride, John Messina finds out, the other guy finds out. So there was like a little bit jealous. Rusty Rastelli’s arrival with his brothers and parking incident
[29:55] When Rusty Rastelli one day came to J.J. Kane in Deli, you know, with his brother Carmine, because his brothers always drove him. He didn’t have no strangers, always his brothers. He traveled alone, but he traveled with his brothers. Never bodyguard, always family.
[30:15] So he parked, he gives me the key to go park his car and put all those white guys. You don’t want to book the car. I’m back in everybody’s looking at me, you know, like, what is it? But there was a lot of envious after that because any party is anything. I’ll be sitting at the head of the table with the rest of it. So that was a big resentence from Joe. Joe wasn’t too happy about that because he probably knows how people move up in the lot. Yeah, you know, so they go by, I get flat tires, you know, my car, you know, I’m getting the same, which I go back outside, I get flat tire. I was doing good. I bought myself a Trans Am 1974 with the Eagle. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I remember those. I read one. Hot, man, hot. Who the hell is this kid? Who the hell? You know, that’s it. All the guys with the thug. You know, they were like, who the fuck?
[31:28] They will say Greseball. They won’t call me Zip. But not in my face. Yeah. There was one time, this fat guy, big guy, he said Greaseball. You know, he said it, that’s who you call a goosebump, you know, like, I said, you could be big or you want to get a left pipe, I ain’t showing the head, I’m faster than you, I’m going to get you. It blew his mind. It brings up a question. You mentioned the term zip. Did you hear that term much? That’s what Carmine Galante. He brought people over. Cesar Amato. And I can’t remember the other guy’s name. Baldo Amato. Baldo Amato and other people from Sicily and everybody in America called him zip. So did you hear that much? Yeah. One day I heard that word zip. But because most of them were from the Naples. After Giobannano left, Pocahontas Solano got killed, they were more Neapolitan. The heads of the family became almost Neapolitan. They wanted to push the Sicilians out.
[32:45] But that was going through since the 30s. There was always the conflict between the Neapolitans the Sicilians, the Camorra. You ever heard of the Camorra? Yeah, I’ve heard of that. Yeah. Okay. So there was always, you know, who’s going to be the power. So, but after Paul Castellano died, they, most of them were Neapolitans. Yeah. So they started… Gotti was a Neapolitan, so interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[33:17] They started using this word zip. So I think Joe Mossina, he says, you’re a zip, you know, when I’m in conversation. I said zip before my, yeah, I put my hand on my zip on my pants. He says, zip. I’m gonna open the zip. And he didn’t like that. Freaked out. They grabbed me. They grabbed me. And they, we go see all these other guys, you know. And they put them in shading in my neck. You know, I said, go ahead, do it. If it makes you feel good, do it. What I do? I zip, you know, trying to intimidate. But I stood my ground and I actually pushed him.
[34:04] They thought I was sick. I was crazy. Like my father, he was crazy. They didn’t know your father when they started pushing you, did they? Oh yeah, well, then, you know, with the Lunch Wagon, see that’s when I met with this guy Tommy D. I would go play cards Upper Masters. It was a blackjack game. It was run by, I don’t know if it was from the General B’s family or was from the Gambino. It was a blackjack game that was like all the white guys would go to their play and they would play blackjack, but they, you know, up to a hundred dollar limit that you could bet. At that time, a hundred dollars was like a thousand dollars. Yeah. That’s a lot of money. So, but that’s where I met John Gotti, Richie Giovinelli.
[35:00] Carmine Pudding, Michael Franzese you heard that name, Michael Franzese. Michael Franzese. Michael Franzese, but it’s related to the guy who does podcasts. Yeah, the Bud Michael Franzese. Yeah, yeah, now he became a priest and everything, but. Yeah. Yeah, and what happened to the priesthood? I thought he was becoming a priest, now he’s in the pocket. You know what I mean? Everything is about money. Yeah. Right? Yes. Right. So, hey, look, whatever is good for you, do it, you know, but don’t go out and talk about other people, you know, you know, when you’re doing something that you say you, you change, but you didn’t change. Right. That’s how I met all this guy. Yeah. Now, one of my staff, there was, in other words, people from jail go to work. It was a rebuilt phone, you know, used phone that we varnished, or what’s the word I’m looking for? Recycled? Recycled, yeah. Right. And there used to be people from jail come and do this work.
[36:16] And there used to be a paymaster that would cash the checks, come in with the food case money and cash the check. Now, the word was out that this guy could carry maybe a hundred thousand dollars in cash. That was one of my stops. They came to rob this guy. I ended up getting shot in my stomach. We don’t know if it was a coincidence or was it done on purpose because it was people from the truck. So I almost lost my life. I was out of business for a while. It was out of a group. So that’s when I started to say, hey, I gotta be my own man. Getting shot and deciding to be independent in business
[36:58] I gotta, you know, I gotta back in the business with the pizzeria. But meantime, I was going to all this club, the other John Gotti, I played cards with him. You know, I made myself respected. Don’t never like that. What are you doing over there? What are you doing with this? Tony Mirra for instance, Tony Mirra, we were friends. Oh, really? Say he was a bad man. And he was a tough dude. Depends. There was a lot of bad guys. Yeah, a lot of bad guys. He was just one of many bad guys, I guess.
[37:37] OK. But, you know, I didn’t do nothing with him. We just play cards. Yeah. You know, we play cards. Hey, well, you know, we were like from Sicily to Sicilians. You know, I end up with meeting.
[37:51] Baldo Amaro, that put me there. Cesare Bonventre? Yeah. Bonaventre, he was the other. Yeah, he was the guy. He was the head guy. I met Caravano. They invited me to go to the club, Costello Marese, that’s what I think about. They invited me. They actually wanted to buy my pizzeria. You know, first of all, they wanted me to get involved with them. Yeah. No, I got to get out. I can’t do this. Well, that was kind of my next question, the pizza connection, and these guys are, you know, they were the genesis of the pizza connection and on Knickerbocker Avenue, I think that’s where they started with the first pizza. That’s where they were. That was the location. And then they started building out from there with pizza places clear out to Illinois, really, and down to Pittsburgh and or Philadelphia and a lot of that whole pizza connection deal. Now, you were asked to join in with that, with your pizza place to help with that.
[38:50] Yes, they came in. But see, there’s so many stories about what happens when I was in the pizza place. They I was willing and willing in the pizzeria to the old Irish kid, the German kids behind in Glendale. They should be the railroad. And there’s a lot of goods coming through there. Oh, I’d say is that. And the Irish kids used to go steal there, they rob them. And they used to come to me to buy. I became the fence. Okay. The fence with the Irish kids and the German kids. And that’s how we would get very close. Then they would bring a cigarette in. So I had my own thing going. Now the pizzeria, the Cesare Bonventre and Baldo Amato, they came to my place, had pizza. And they were saying, you know, that’s how they were doing it. They were doing it that they want to unionize the pizzerias, you know, to make a union, you know, like Colombo did with the Yeah, the Italian American, civil rights, yeah, the drugs. The heroin, a lot of money. Yeah.
[40:07] And I said, no, because an incident happened before that somebody snitched on me, that I had guns in there, in the pizzeria, I had drugs, so they come and raid my place. But they didn’t find anything. They only find shells, holsters, because I had given the weapons I had, give it to Marty, because they were fighting. Transition: From dealing with stolen weapons to getting involved in Bonaventure
[40:32] I said, I don’t need this weapon. Yeah, so I gave her because I bought them from the kids. They were stealing, you know, so I was lucky that I didn’t find out that you were. Yeah, it was lucky. So with that issue, when I went to me, Cesare Bonventre, they said Bonaventre and Baldo, and they want me to get involved. I said, I just got right. We’re looking for drugs. They were looking for this. I’m on the nose. I got to sell my pizzeria because I’m done over here because the business now started going down. Can you imagine an Italian guy in a German neighborhood, he got raided, the word gets out, that’s it. There was a time for me to move out and I went to live in Lindenwood. You know, the house stood with us, we didn’t tell the house, so I sold the pizzeria. My father already went back to Italy, Sicily, he retired, so now I was on my own. Playing cards, playing cards, I got involved with people for East New York, so I’d hang out with them, which belonged to the Gambino, and I was doing good there. So Joe Massino finds out, and he put the word out. Now he’s already made, he’s already a made guy.
[42:01] He tells the people that I belong to him, you know, my nephew doesn’t belong there, you know, he belongs to us. So they caught, I was doing good there, we were running the gambling, firework, the numbers, I was making money. And they loved me, they liked me a lot. They were not both Neapolitans. I see. But they loved me and other people too. You know, Richie Giovanelli too, I got along with him too. The other guys I’m not mentioning because they’re still around.
[42:41] So they’re still. So I was doing good. And every time I tried to do good, there was a stop. You know, he would claim it. But it wasn’t a part of him. I wanted, I was close with the Rastelli and being close to the Rastelli, it was like me having a, you know, I’m like a mad guy, you know. Yeah. I’m with the boss, you know, I’m not with Joe Blow that he’s just being paid, you know, as a soldier. I was sitting with the boss. So, but I always knew not to step in nobody’s store. You know what I’m, I’m through territory, or do business or disrespect anybody. I did my own thing. And then what happened was from, it’s a lot of things in the book. Yeah, you can’t tell everything’s in the book. We want people to buy the book.
[43:41] You like this, is that? Anyway, so I was, you know, I got out of the pizzeria and opened up what’s called a JC Maintenance. What was that, a JC? Maintenance, JC Maintenance, maintenance, cleaning, cleaning, cleaning offices and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was paying taxes and then, you know, I did that for a good time. You know, then I got involved with Investor Money and Jewish Guys, you know, jewelry. So I was doing good, you know, I mean, so I didn’t need, I didn’t need dromacy, I didn’t need. But I always thought that I could not do too much while I lived.
[44:30] Queens. Yeah, I understand. So I moved out and went to Long Island. Now we’re talking about, that’s the 80s. So we’re there from the 70s, now to the 80s. And I was doing good. I was moving Suffolk County, Nassau County. I was bookmaking, you know. I didn’t like Shylock. I didn’t like, I tried. I tried it. So one day, one guy owe money and because of bookmaking, you know, you want to turn it into a shop. A lot of guys, that’s what they do. They bang you up. You can’t pay. It’s not shared money. I couldn’t do it because one time I went to somebody’s house, you know, to try to collect money and the wife is crying. We got no money for the milk, you know. Yeah. Very. And I got a very I felt like dirt, you know, like I’m taking away milk from the baby. Yeah. You’re not going to be the hero there, are you? No. So I got I got very sentimental. I said, that’s not my kind of thing. So I just stuck with bookmaking, gave everybody limits, you know, and invest money, you know, with business. But I got right out by Joe Massino.
[45:51] I bought my operation in Nassau County. And I was lucky because I had 12 guys on the me. But there was the train in Brown City. I don’t know if you remember the black guy shooting down all the people. Oh, and Long Island. Long Island. Yeah, right. Yeah. You remember something about that? Yeah. He shot a bunch of people on the train. Yes. It was the same day that that happened. Yeah. that I got busted with 12 guys. So Nassau County, it was an open territory. All the mafiosi threw away from Nassau County and Suffolk. Because the laws are hard, they put you in jail. They didn’t have any connections over there either. Right, so they didn’t fool around. So I went there because I figured it’s an open country. I’d rather deal with the law than deal with this. Joe Massino.
[46:48] Yeah, it was, yeah. It was Joe wanting money from you, and if he’d learned you were making money, did he expect you to give him some? He never knew much about what I was doing. He always asked questions, what is he doing? Was because I had my operation in Long Island, you know, so he didn’t have, but then he got the hook and that’s when I got busted, you know, with the bookmaking and they didn’t give me jail time because there was never no violence. Yeah. You know, I only did bookmaking, you know, then I got to pay the fine. That was it. They give me probation, you know, misdemeanor. But there was no violence. They would threaten anybody. So I was a good guy. I was a good guy. But don’t mess with me, though.
[47:38] I got it. I won’t. I understand. You know, the people of people. Yeah. You’re giving them a service. That’s how I felt. Yeah. And that’s my was my thing. You know, just to. And then I opened up a restaurant in Colomichi, in Guam City, in Franklin Square. I had it for 20 years there. I started, I kept putting up with the bookmaking. I got busted there because some of the associates that infiltrated my business, they belonged to Joe. They came to my restaurant, they became friends. So we were doing business together. And there was a wire recording from Brooklyn, from Masford to the club. I would go on the phones and call from the street phone. I would never call from the house or something. So anyway, I got hooked up with the organized crime, Spiro. Anthony Spiro. Anthony Spiro, yeah. They picked him up. They picked everybody up, about 20 guys. I had nothing to do with them. but they have me as the bookmaker, you know, edging off business, so they right away they threw me in with the group. So they came to my home.
[49:05] Lucky at the time I had the guns I had to permit. I had to permit because I took shooting. That’s the only way you could have a life. I always had a clean record. I was not a bad guy. So when they arrest me, the feds would say, you know, you face a 40 years. Oh. I said, what? Yeah. Yeah. For bookmaking? I don’t think so. Right, but they had the other guy with slot machines. Accusations of Murder and Conspiracy
[49:41] Attempt to murder, you know, there was a lot of charges. Was this part of a RICO case then on Anthony Spiro? No, I don’t think it was a RICO case. It was that he was bringing in this slot machines from our side, stay to stay. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. And supposedly he was being accused of murder. I don’t know if it was that guy that they killed from 18th Avenue.
[50:12] You know, I can’t remember. I can’t think of it right now. Anyway, they were trying to connect them with the murder, but everybody else was part of the conspiracy organization. And now I’m part of it. Then they bring in this charge from Nassau County. a bookmaker. You weren’t operated there by yourself. You can’t do that. I was surrounded by, you know, the head of the FBI or the Bonanno crime family and they wanted me to talk.
[50:47] Listen, I’ve been a bookmaker all this period and a businessman. Okay. So I got nothing to do with that guy, you know, or never. I said, if you got proof for me, took me, show me where you could connect me with that. I never went to clubs, you know, that was the club, the social club, the social club. Yeah. Like the Raven or. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I never went. I went to Ravenite when I played with John Gorri, but that was in the early years. Then I stood away too, that’s another stories of my book, what happened there, playing cards. There’s a lot of it. I’m just giving you my independency where I moved along, try to stay away from that.
[51:43] But I was too close with the Rastelli. So Rusty died, I went to the funeral, you know, and that’s when… Became the superpower, you know, Salvatore, Spero. Joe was in jail at that time. He was a, you know, so, but Phil Rastelli was steadily. His man was thorough. Anthony Spero was this guy. He was the real power. Power Shift and Loss of Respect
[52:15] And then with Salvatore, they were good together. They, they brought back the, the family. And then John Gotti likes Spero. He was starting to lose respect for Joe. I don’t know why, but they were not, not close. When they say he went back in the commission, they went back in the commission. It wasn’t because of Joe, it was a jail. You know, it was Ferro and Sal that ran the Lugo Stivo. There was a lot of good guys that I like, you know, and they were moving good.
[53:01] Even Vinny Hustle, Osaro, Osaro, Vinny Osaro. Okay. The guy from Lufthansa. Oh yeah. Okay. I got you. I remember now. Okay. He was another guy. He was a tough guy. He was a good guy. He didn’t he didn’t do nothing like some other people do. He was a matter of saying he was a real mafioso. And so was Carmine, Tony, Francheze, You know, I did something for him. You want to hear this one? OK, one last story. Yeah, we don’t want to go. There’s a lot of stories. I know we don’t want to give them all away, Jack. So let’s have one. Let me give you this story. The guy likes me a lot. Somebody went up to the family in Colombo. They wanted to kill one of the pawns. And they were gonna pay a lot of money because the guy wanted to take over the company. That was a contract murder.
[54:01] They asked Carmine to set up a sting, which was a sting. You know what I mean? Am I saying it right? Sting? Yeah, they were gonna like make him- Make it look like they kill somebody. They kill somebody, yeah. Right, for the money. Because the guys, it was been really wanted to kill his partner to the company. So that’s a bad people or some people. They go through the mafia guy or mafioti, to set up a contract to kill their partners. This way they could take the partner. So they tell them they’re not interested. They kept insisting, come on, give me a hundred thousand. of the 100,000. So the greatest thing. I put the dead guy in the trunk. With blood all over.
[54:52] I put the guy in the trunk, right? Yeah, did they take a picture of you? No, I was drunk. Yeah, but did they take a picture of you and then show it to the guy? No, no, the guy want to see the body. Oh, you had to lay there and pretend like you were dead? Yeah, full of blood. Businessman came and checked it. Oh, that’s crazy. Yeah, the guy goes, I want to see his face. Because I chopped him up with a hack. Give me my money, give me my money. He got his money. Oh, wow. I walked away and he’s going, I mean, this motherfucker, you know, he says he wanted us to be killers for money. Fuck him. Wait till tomorrow, wait till tomorrow his partner walks in to come to work. Carmine chooses me to tell the story
[55:46] That was, Carmine never forgot, he was his best friend, you know, the British were good. Sal wanted to do it, he wanted to play the dead body, but Carmine chose me. There was a lot of, I’m saying there’s a lot of story. I’m here, they’re not here. Right. Yeah. So I wrote wrote this thing, but I wrote it myself because I was trying to get a journalist to write it. The journalist was working for New York Town, like Capesi. Yeah. They would talk about the mob and they’re a Capesi. Yeah. But I try to reach him. Then I got to reach another guy. He says, I’ll write the story, but it’s going to cost you $40,000, there’s no guarantee, you know, it’s going to suck. Yeah. Yeah. Where am I? I’m a nobody. You know, these guys have become famous because they’re bad guys, you know? Yeah. You know, that’s how they get reputation. So then I said, you know what, maybe I’ll write it myself. So I wrote it and I gave it to this company, Ex Libre. Ever heard of them? Yeah, I have.
[57:06] Publisher company. But they didn’t fix it. I didn’t do a lot of editing. Oh, when I got the book, I wasn’t too happy about it. And then I redid, you know, you got the book, right? This one. And then I wrote a follow-up, you get it? I got you. And then I got another one that’s translated in Italian. And it was, I wanted to get the people from my town.
[57:35] But I had a professor, a professor from the government, from Pittsburgh. It went through, he worked, you know, with the mob. He put away a lot of people. I told him a bit about my story. He said, you got a lot of good shit here. You know, he goes, I had to give him a summary. Summary? Yeah. Because you got a lot of stuff there. He goes, but that time it was going downhill, the mob thing. Yeah, now it’s uphill. Now it’s doing good. Yeah, now it’s going up. That’s why I said, now this is the time to do it, you know? I mean, I’m watching these guys all in the podcast talking about this, about that. I got a story that’s real, you know? I mean, it’s a long story that I always said, the Godfather movie was great, you know, but it’s even not real people, you know, not real, not real story. There I am. I’m the real thing. It’s sad to say. If anybody really could be the Godfather, it should be you.
[58:46] I’m laughing. So I said, I got to do it. So, you know, I revived it. You know, with drama, drama. A little drama in it, a little drama to it. Yeah, yeah, all that, all of that. You know, did it, so I came out with this. So, but I, with the other book, I got 26 reviews, which was this one. This one was the original. Oh, okay. But I, I wanted it to be holy, like. Yeah. But, see, and this was the original. It’s a little smaller than that. I see. Yeah. And not to, you know, they didn’t read this based on the true Sicilian, you know, they just looked at the picture. Right. But I got 46 reviews out of this that they liked it. And they said, when you’re going to write the second? But then I threw it away because Joe Massino was still alive. Yeah. You know what I mean? The other, I said, you know, I got, which then I moved down to Florida. That’s where I am now. And I opened up a pizzeria here in Florida for 10 years, I mean, in business. From mafia connections to a pizza place in Florida
[1:00:02] And I got, they came in to check my books.
[1:00:07] It’s amazing. And then at the liquor, at the liquor, Yeah, they set up my, one of my workers that sold the beer to underage person. Oh, yeah. Over here, right, they set it up, two licenses. One was 18 and up, and then the other one 16, but they look like license. But one is supposed to be junior license. The one license. That’s what happened. The guy gave the beer to this girl who was doing bring break. Bring break, man. And he didn’t have the regular license. He had the junior license. We got ready like. Yeah. Like what the hell is this? Yeah. You know, so. Here’s a guy like you being connected to some of the most dangerous New York City mafia people in the world. And these cops down here in Florida busted you because one of your employees sold a beer and it was just one direct because it was the underage employee that wasn’t supposed to sell the beer, sold the beer to the underage kid. That’s crazy. So never, never. They don’t have enough to do.
[1:01:26] You still got a pizza place down there? No, I’m done. No. OK. I was going to say if I went down there this winter, I’d stop by and see you. I’m done. I’m retired now. Ah, good. Now, when I’m looking at the story, I think it’s a good story. I mean, they did The Soprano. Yeah. You know, I mean, from New Jersey, we had the… I got the big deal, the people. I got the good stuff. That’s what I’m looking for. You just keep doing what you’re doing. You just keep getting your story out there. There’ll be more people that’ll want you on their podcast, especially after this comes out. I’m sure of that. I’ll get calls. Matter of fact, I’ll suggest you to a couple of people I know that have podcasts. And people will start getting you on their podcast because you have great stories. I really appreciate you coming on the show. I got guys are just going to love this this first hand stuff, the real stuff. It’s got. All right. I really appreciate you coming on, Jack. And I wish still had the pizza place. I’d stop by and eat some pizza this morning. Now, I’m trying to relax, relax. You are my grandchildren. Yeah. You know, I hope nothing comes out of this. Maybe the feds are going to come in and get you. And don’t just don’t admit to any murders. No statute of limitations on murders, you know? Yeah, I know.
[1:02:54] But it was a pleasure. It was a pleasure to talk to you guys. That was a heck of a show. I tell you what he is. Jack is a cool guy. Like I said, I wish he really had still had the pizza place down there. We’d all stop down there when we were going to Florida. But don’t forget, I like to ride motorcycles. So watch out for motorcycles when you’re out there on the streets. And if you have a problem with PTSD and you’ve been in the service, the VA website has a good hotline for that. And you know, alcohol and drug addiction goes right along with PTSD. And whether you’ve been in the service or not, you can get hold of former Gambino man, Anthony Ruggiano. He is a drug and alcohol counselor down there in Florida and on his website and his YouTube page, he has a hotline. So give him a shot if you have a problem with drugs or alcohol. And don’t forget to like and subscribe and tell your friends about the podcast and share it on your social media and do all those kinds of things. And rest assured that I really like putting these out and I really like getting these great mob stories like we had today, some really previously unknown mob stories. And he’s got his books out there, A Father’s Belief, and I’ll have links to the Amazon page for those books. So look for his books. Thanks a lot, gu
The post Life in the Bonanno Family appeared first on Gangland Wire.
Retired intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you a new podcast that he is excited about. On Our Watch: New Folsom is a gripping investigative podcast series brought to you by KQED. This show delves into the stories of two courageous correctional officers. These officers face severe consequences after exposing corruption and abuse within their ranks. Through powerful elements like interrogation tapes, 911 audio, prison phone calls, personal recordings, and emotional interviews, the show masterfully unravels the flaws in the accountability system. It’s a heart-pounding and explosive narrative that you don’t want to miss. But wait, there’s more! Stay tuned for an upcoming trailer that will give you a taste of the intensity and intrigue that awaits you. And once you’ve listened, find and follow On Our Watch wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you don’t want to miss out on the whole story. The journey begins with a man who dreams of becoming an investigator in Folsom, California’s most dangerous prison. He knows correctional officers promise to protect the innocent and hold each other accountable. However, inside the prison walls, promises are broken, fear, intimidation, and violence take control, and lives hang in the balance. It’s a stunning tale of two individuals who dare to challenge the unwritten brotherhood code and pay a heavy price.
As this captivating case unfolds, it raises numerous crucial questions, and the pursuit of truth comes at an unimaginable cost. Get ready for On Our Watch, Season 2, a production from KQED. Starting on February 6th, you can expect weekly episodes to keep you on the edge of your seat. If you want to learn more, go into the app you are on now and find On Our Watch. Or click this link, On Our Watch. Trust me, this is one podcast series you won’t want to miss. Support the podcast. Subscribe to get new gangster stories every week.
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To rent Brothers against Brothers, the documentary, click here.
To rent Gangland Wire, the documentary, click here
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To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast. Donate to the podcast. Click here!
Transcript
[0:00] Hey guys, Gary Jenkins, retired intelligence unit detective here. We’re going to do something a little different today. I wanted to introduce you to a new show that I know you’re really going to want to listen to, On Our Watch. On Our Watch is an investigative podcast series from KQED. This season, it follows the stories of two correctional officers who pay a high price for exposing corruption and abuse by their fellow officers. The show shines a light on a broken accountability system through interrogation tapes, 911 audio, prison phone calls, personal audio recordings, and hours of emotional interviews. It’s an explosive, gripping narrative you need to hear. Next up, we have a trailer just for you. Take a listen, take it in, and then find and follow On Our Watch wherever you’re listening to this right now. The Dangerous Prison Job: A Promise and a New Family
[0:43] You’re going to want to hear the whole story. He wanted to be an investigator. He said it was the most dangerous prison in California. Each day, people step inside prison walls, not to serve a sentence, but to do a job. I, state your name, recognize the badge of my office. Correctional officers promise to protect the innocent and hold each other accountable. And I accept it as a public trust. And in turn, Thayer promised a new family. Congratulations. Welcome to the family. Broken Promises and the Dark Reality Behind the Walls
[1:27] But once behind the walls, those promises are hard to keep. He texted, I sold my pride for the job, and it wasn’t worth it. This one sergeant, he put his hands around his neck, and he said, I can make it look like an accident. In a place where secrecy is enforced through intimidation and threat of violence. To live under that kind of fear, I can’t explain to you. Lives hang in the balance. They just really don’t give a fuck. They don’t care about my life. They don’t care about helping me. Did you hear that he had died? No. Yeah, I’m really sorry to be telling you that. That’s foul play. Foul play, honestly. Two Men Who Defied the Brotherhood’s Unwritten Code
[2:12] This is a story about two men who defied the unwritten code that binds that brotherhood together. Everything about this case just raises questions. Why was he banned from this institution? And the cost they paid for telling the truth inside a system bent on protecting itself. There’s no denying that they’re fucking responsible for what happened. A Grieving Father’s Quest for Answers
[2:36] Losing my son has been something else. Maybe one day I’ll find out the answers. Introducing “On Our Watch, Season 2, New Folsom”
[2:45] From KQED, I’m Suki Lewis, and this is On Our Watch, Season 2, New Folsom. Episodes drop weekly beginning February 6th. For more information, go to kqed.org slash onourwatch.
The post On Our Watch appeared first on Gangland Wire.
Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. In this episode, we have a captivating interview with Jack Amato, the author of “A Father’s Belief,” a book about his life in Sicily and his journey to the United States. Jack shares his experiences growing up in the fishing town of Carini and the matchmaking that led his family to immigrate to the US. He discusses his father’s work as a fisherman and the challenges they faced in their hometown. Moving on to his life in the United States, Jack talks about his early years in school and the language barriers he had to overcome as an immigrant. He also touches upon the presence of the Mafia in Sicily and the admiration for the Mafia folk hero Salvatore Giuliano. The episode concludes with a preview of the upcoming second part of the interview, where Jack will delve deeper into his experiences in the US, including his interactions with influential figures from the Bonanno family. Listeners are reminded to pay attention to motorcycles on the streets and provided with resources for PTSD and addiction support. Support the podcast. Subscribe to get new gangster stories every week.
Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee”
To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here
To rent Brothers against Brothers, the documentary, click here.
To rent Gangland Wire, the documentary, click here
To buy my Kindle book, Leaving Vegas: The True Story of How FBI Wiretaps Ended Mob Domination of Las Vegas Casinos.
To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast. Donate to the podcast. Click here!
Transcript
[0:00] Welcome, all you wiretappers out there. Good to be back here in the studio. Gangland Wire, you know, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins here. And I have a really interesting, different sort of an interview. We’ve got a man from Sicily. I started noticing this man on our podcast page. Gangland Wire podcast was posting and he has a book that he’s written and it tells about his life, you know, both in Sicily and when he came over And when he came over, his family ended up, you know, getting jobs and being around some of the Bonanno families. So he has a lot of experiences with this from, shall we say, from the, not really from the associate side, not even associate, more like from just somebody that lived in the neighborhood and people that had to do business with mob guys and with his roots in Sicily. So his name is Jack Amato. So welcome, Jack.
[0:57] Thank you for getting me to your show. All right. You invited me to your show. Well, I’m really anxious to have you. Now, A Father’s Belief, part one, that’s the name of your book, correct? Yes, yes. All right, and you can get that on Amazon, I believe, can’t you? Yes. All right, good. We’ll have links to how you click on to get that book, and in the YouTube version, I’ll have a picture of it whenever we talk about it. Every once in a while, we’ll have a picture of it So people will know what it looks like. And then going to gangland, why our Facebook group and Jack post quite a little bit. And he’ll post a little bit about his book every once in a while and have a link to it and tell some stories from from his childhood and growing up in New York City.
[1:41] But first of all, Jack, we just talked a little bit. And you have a really fascinating back story in Sicily before you got to the United States. So tell me a little bit about it. Tell the guys here a little bit about, you know, where you came from, What area was that in Sicily and what was life like over there? I was born in Carini, Sicily, province of Palermo. Life in Carini, Sicily and the Fishing Trade
[2:03] The location of the town, it was on the hill. And then there was the mountains surrounded and the sea. My family were fishers by trade. It was a town with aquaculture, meaning, you know, fruits, vegetables, everything. Cows, sheeps. So there was a different type of people there, different group. We called them, if you were connected, we called them mafios.
[2:33] Okay, that’s like a May guy, who translated in English, you know, over here. So things were not good. I come from a big family, 10 kids. I was the ninth. So we had to bring the family over to USA, America.
[2:54] So there was a matchmaking with my older brother with another Italian girl, Sicilian, and he was the first one to come to America. He went to work for a local showman and Brooklyn Red Hook, section of Brooklyn. And then my father came along, came by himself. He was 54 years old when he came. So now, let me ask a question here. Your brother came first because of a matchmaking, somebody’s couple of families got together and who were already, somebody was already over here? Is that how that worked? Yes, yes, yes, yes. Matchmaking and Coming to America
[3:32] How did that work then? I mean, just… Okay, there was somebody from Carini. There was a cousin of my mother, cousin, first cousin, that was coming to America. So my mother said to him, I wish I could put one of my boys in your suitcase to take him to America, you know? So with that, he never, you know, he never forgot that. But when he came and lived in Brooklyn, there was this Italian family that they wanted to marry somebody from Sicily.
[4:11] So they knew each other because he worked in the longshoremen too, the husband did. So that’s how the matchmaking came about, you know. So they show pictures of each other, you know, that’s what I mean matchmaking. They send a picture, they liked each other and, you know, My brother would just finish the Navy. He was like 22 years old, you know, when he got out and started going fishing again. But things weren’t working out for the future. So really, that was the idea. They were going to come to America. So I’m very impressed by my father that he did that at 54 years old. Really? But for me, he was like a man’s man. You know, he was he was a tough man to come. Fifty four years old. Most people at 54, they want to retire. You know what I’m saying? So now your father, he was a fisherman in your village? Daily Life as a Fisherman in Sicily
[5:10] For a roof from the beginning. How did he, I mean, did he have his own boat, went out and caught fish and then brought them in and sold them, gutted them and cleaned them and then sold them at a market that anybody could come by or did he sell them to a company that processed them out? What was his day-to-day life like? Well, people will come by the boat to buy the fish, either for restaurants, regular people, want to fish fish. And then whatever’s left, we will sell it to the public. They will go out, pulling out, you know, what they have, what kind of fish, octopus was very popular, and all different fish. So you go block by block and sell it in the street. whatever was left over, then you would sell it to the fishmonger for whatever reasonable price. But first, they would sell it to the people, the public. Yeah. So that’s what they did. So then whatever’s left over after all that, that you guys ate, I assume. Oh, yeah. We ate a lot of fish.
[6:19] And what we used to do to have we used to sometimes give it to the butcher, the fish, and we would get the meat. You know, like instead of money, they would change it between meat, whatever, vegetable, and we’d get fish because there was not too much money. Yeah, I see. So you were 10 of you guys, 10 kids, 10. So I guess all the boys worked on the fishing boat at one time or another. Jack’s Childhood and Family Involvement in Fishing
[6:48] The older brother. But I used to go to be, how do you say?
[6:53] A young boy, you don’t want to go fishing with the brothers and more I used to be in their way than actually fish. I never fish, I go swimming, you know, that was the thing, you know, watching my brother fish. Yes, we have more than one boat, you know, we have more than one boat. There was a bigger boat with all the fishermen, like I said, it’s a group, there was association that they would go fishing for tuna, big fishes, you know? And what do you call it? The town hall, they would get some kind of benefits, because they would help feed the people. So they would get some kind of money given to make sure the operator good, I mean, have enough sources to go out fishing. You know, the gasoline, everything, all the tools, than that. So, you know, the government, I mean, the politicians were involved there. Interesting.
[7:58] Not unlike in the United States. You probably don’t want to much about this. I grew up on a farm and. OK. And in the United States, the government, we have the USDA, United States Department of Agriculture, and farmers can then apply for low cost loans. They can get different things through the government to make sure because the government wants to make sure there’s enough food that’s always provided. It’s the same thing. Interesting. Same thing. Yes. Financial Struggles and the Decision to Move to the USA
[8:26] Yes. Same thing. Yes. So there were that but there was no money, you know, I mean, people had no money. They were strapped for money. So there was not too much money going around. And he just decided my mother, my father decide that we’ve got to make a move. We can’t stay here. These kids are going to go nowhere, you know? And like I said, I was four when I got there. How many were left at home when you they made the move to the United States? Well, we were actually eight, eight. My older sister was married and the brother got married and then the other one got married. So we were seven months in there. Yeah. All right. So this little village that you lived in, how big was it? Oh, 25 to 30,000 people. Oh, I say little village a little bit. Yeah, a little.
[9:21] No, no, that’s what I said. There was a lot of business there with cattle, sheeps, and the sea. So there was a lot of product, but not too much work for the people. Okay. What else to do? There was no factory. But if you go today, it’s all changed. Yeah. All the industry there now, it’s a different thing. I mean, the business world is there now. They don’t need to come to America. Interesting. So, was there much tourist trade in your city, your town? Tourism in Carini in the Present Day
[9:59] Yeah, right now it’s big, yes. It’s big now? Yes. They redid the castle, they do shows in there, you know, it’s called a Baronessa di Carini. It’s just horrible. OK. They rebuilt the castle. So a lot of people do go there. There’s a lot of house now by the water. It don’t change. You know, a lot of villas. People will retire. They go back there.
[10:27] So nothing for me. I like USA. It’s it’s on the water, then it. Well, we’re in the hill. So it’s like 20 minutes from the water. Above the hill, you could go and look at the ocean. OK. All right. Now, that’s important. Yes, I have a beautiful view. You could go in the mountains, see all the valley. Yeah. Oh, everything. But like I said, now it’s got more populated with house because people go back to Sicily for the summer and that they work here. They got business, but then they will go back and live in that villa for the summer. People are very successful. How far are you from Palermo? 30 minutes. Oh, we are real close to Palermo. Yes, yes.
[11:14] Probably a lot of wealthy people in Palermo have the summer house in a town like your… Yes, they come down, yes, for the summer. Like a vacation, yes. Yeah, yeah. So then on back inland, did you travel much around in Sicily? Congested Towns and Spacious Streets Outside the Towns
[11:30] What’s that like? What are the roads like, for example, around there? Are they just pretty small? Everything’s paved, I think, but… Yeah, the town itself is, yeah, the cars are very congested. I mean, now they got a lot of cars. You can’t even park the car. There’s no room. So it’s like very, very congested, you know? So, but when you go out of the town, the streets are big. Okay. They’ve been building, you got the highways now from the airport, go through right straight to Palermo, but then you go past all the town. See that, that the towns are located all on the hill. Beautiful. It’s like being an island. You ever been an island? Yeah. The Irish, the Ireland. Yeah, Ireland, Ireland. It’s like Ireland. Interesting. Yeah, very, very. We all got the similar flag, too. That’s why we keep on fighting each other. I don’t know. Yeah.
[12:32] We’re a copycat, they say. Because I grew up with a lot of Irish family. Huh? Now we’re going through that later. Yeah. So you mentioned the mafioso. You know, some people were the working people, the fishermen and the mafioso. So I was just talking with a guy who an Irish guy, as a matter of fact, Ireland, Irish people seem to have an affinity for Sicily, an Irish guy who has bought a house over there and he’s getting it fixed up. And he said for him to do this, he had to go to a local fixer that he didn’t know if he was mafia or mafioso. And so kind of how does that work? This local fixer, is that, I mean, what we think of as a mafia here in the United States.
[13:18] It’s different, I think, than in Sicily. Can you compare that? Well, you know, like a real estate guy that is financier like. Yeah. You know, it goes out and find a property for you or the seller or the buyer. That’s what it was to be the way that I was there. OK. I don’t know the change now. I don’t know. It was the only time I went back there to visit my sisters. My dad eventually retired there. He had the house by the beach, you know, built a home there. So, but I don’t know much about the law is there. The only thing I know, American law. Childhood in a town with only Catholic schools
[14:07] So as a child growing up, I guess, in this town, to say in town, then what was, were the schools, were they all Catholic schools? Part of the church, Catholic schools, or were they public schools and Catholic schools? Only Catholic schools. For the town, I mean, for city school, public school, or what would you call it, public school. Okay. There was no Catholic school. You went to Kidney Garden. And that was like a big process before you do your communion, you go there for two years, you know, then when you do your confirmation, another two years. So that if you call that a Catholic school, it was given from the church. OK, a lot of churches in my 20 church. But then you went on to public school on the next several years. You went on to public school. No, when I came to, yeah, well, I only did there fifth grade. I didn’t finish it because I came here on December 23rd in 1965.
[15:17] So I was in the fifth grade. So I had to leave school. So I had already fourth grade at the school over there, one and a half. So when I came here, they put me in the sixth grade with a lot of kids. I mean, you know, public school. Now I’m the guy that is illiterate. I looked down because I was an immigrant.
[15:44] So I took my punches, you know, and then I went to the seventh grade, which was junior high school. Did you speak any English at all? No, no, no. When you first got there? Wow. Learning English at church and school, facing cultural clashes
[15:59] Did the school have any way for you to have extra classes in speaking English? Or the church? Sometimes the church here in Kansas City, Don Bosco Center, for new immigrants will have special classes for people to learn English, newly arrived people. Well, they put us in the class that where they teach you the vowel. A, B, C, D, F, G, you know how to pronounce it. And we were a mixture of Puerto Ricans and the Thai. Them. The blacks were already English. Yeah. But that’s when we came here and read, oh, there was three different people, Italian, Puerto Ricans and black, the project. And the school was right in the center of the tree area.
[16:50] So when we went to school, you know, we mingled. The girls were black, you know, Spanish. And so there was a lot of fighting. I bet we were in the middle. I was me and other guys. There was one in the middle, you know, that we get picked on all the time. And all your boat grew not by the tines, but the other blue. So you had to get into a rumble. Yeah, it was like a West Side Story. You know, the movie. Yeah, I do. Interesting. And the short story. Yeah, the Sharks and the Jets. Yeah. Move to Glendale, Queens and starting a new life
[17:31] Then we had a we had the dances every Friday night from the church, the Catholic church. Yeah, that’s I was bigger like to get the kids, you know, involved with the church. We had the music, the band. And it was like, like I said, it was like West Side Story that’s fighting, fighting, stabbing. Yeah. You know, so my father got us out of there and went to Glendale, Queens, with old Germans. All German and Irish. That’s it. And he bought a luncheonette that belonged to a German family.
[18:14] Immigrant family. There was a lot of German immigrants there. We bought that place with the building. I mean at that time it wasn’t a lot of money, you know, actually we had no heat in that building, you know, the water pipes that brings in heat. So he got a good price and there was a pizzeria like two blocks away that was a mafioso. That’s how the story starts. That’s how you get started in interest. That’s how that. Let me ask one one last question or two about life in Sicily. And then let’s move on in to the United States. Yeah. In Sicily, you mentioned mafioso. So so now how did you see evidence of that? Did you hear your father and your uncles or older men talking about, you know, he’s a mafioso or, you know, that guy’s connected? Did did you see any evidence of that? What do you remember about that? How ingrained in the society was it? OK, my father left for America. I was nine years old. OK, when he left and he pulled me with one of his friends, a barber shop with the cut hair, shave.
[19:29] So because I was wild going on the mountain, I wanted to see, I was very adventurous, but he was very protective and nobody could control me. So he put me to work, to sweep in the barber shop, I mean, with his friend. This way after school, I go there and the guy took me in like like an older brother you know he’s not an old guy. People who come there, they were like I said, cattle people, sheep herders, farmers, you know, their own land. And that’s how I question the type of people that were there. The residents, normal people, and there was a people, mafiosos, sometimes they came in with a shotgun too, you know, because they used to watch the land. But what the most that I admire was the band to read the Julian, the Sicilian never heard of him.
[20:38] He was like a Robin Hood. Ah, OK. Robin Hood, like his actor. He was a time magazine. Look it up. OK, say that say that name again a little slower. Say that name again. Salvatore Giuliano, you just put it on from Sicily. Okay. And the band Salvatore Giuliano from Montelebre. Okay. Okay? I’m looking at it. The whole story. And there’s a lot of real mafia there, you know, I mean, the mafia, the government. That’s what I grew up with. Okay. All right. Then it turned out to be I mean, I don’t want to talk about his story. I want to talk about my story. Right. I understand. But is that they you only live to 40 years old. The Sicilian: A Movie Based on a Fascinating Story
[21:30] It’s a story. Very interesting. They made a movie. Mario Puzo made a movie. You never heard. No, but it was cool. It was it was called the Sicilian. Oh, I have heard of that. I don’t know if I’ve seen it’s been a long time. The Sicilian. OK, let’s look that up. OK, interesting. Mario Puzo wrote it. So he was from and that that man was from I can’t pronounce his name. Of course, Salvatore. Salvatore Giuliano. Giuliano, Salvatore Giuliano was from your area down in there from the mountains around Montelagro. Right. To me, he was a Fox hero, you know, because he came from a poor family, too. The Carabinieri, it means the police, you know, they always abuse them. But if he had grains, they took it away from him. You know, so he was like my fuck zero. But at the end, they set him up. They kill a lot of people and they blame him for it.
[22:35] So that’s the that’s the story. What happened to him? He was very famous, but they want to get him out of the picture because he will side with the police all the time. Oh, I see. And so he was kind of a folk hero for most of the people in your town. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not for the police. Yeah. For the police. They hate him. They hated him. And the mafia hated them, too. Oh, really? The Distinction Between Mafia and Local Mafiosi in Sicily
[23:03] Yes. Because he didn’t want to be one of these old men. Like my story in America. I want to be my own man. Yeah. OK. That’s really interesting. So in Sicily, the mafia probably is more like in Palermo and more like a national criminal organization. Yes. Sicily. But then you had somebody like Salvatore Giuliano up in the mountains who was a mafioso himself with his own crew. Yeah. And they are. That That is an interesting distinction between the two. Yes, very, yes. So it’s my family. My uncle, they had, like I said, they had to protect the fishermen. You know, they’re doing business with people.
[23:52] You know, they would get shaked down too. They would try to take away the good, because that’s what they did. Like with the cattle or the sheep, They used to rob from the normal farmer, and they’d go in the black market and sell it.
[24:09] And that’s how the mafia operates. They steal, they thieve, and they hurt people.
[24:19] So many people in your town would then look to Salvatore to help provide some protection in these more lower rent, more or more like street clubs that were stealing from them, is that? Not that he protected the people, he protect his town, is the town of Montelevere, not my town. Not your town, but another town. Yeah, his town where he was born. Okay, interesting. His family, all the people that joined them, they were from Montelevere. So he got it like a group of 40 bandits, maybe more, but they all from his town. Every town has this thing. Okay. Sicily. There’s the mafiosi in every town. I see, interesting. I’d heard something along those lines. I didn’t quite understand it. Now I’m beginning to understand it because most of those villages and towns are pretty remote from Palermo, the major city. Right. Can’t take what’s a major city on the other side.
[25:26] Tropony. Yeah. Tropony. Tropony, yeah, from those major cities. We get out in the mountains in the middle, then you’re pretty isolated from everybody else around. Yes, yes, yes. So the toughest guy, you know, stands out. I see. he help his people, you know, whatever it is, protect the land, protect the cattle, protect the sheep. That was mafioso, you know, that guy, you know, you got to deal with this guy from town. He’s got the shotgun and he’s ready to use it to protect somebody else’s property. Cool. There was no drugs. No drugs, yeah. No heroin, no heroin. The only thing we would get in the town was the smuggled cigarettes, American cigarettes, you know, and the big thing was gasoline, you know, block market, the gas for the boat, you know, that was a big thing. A lot of those, the heroin trade started out of those cigarette smugglers. There was a lot of cigarette smuggling after World War II. Yes.
[26:37] And that’s where all those heroin traffickers came out of that little subculture of cigarette smugglers, they realized there was a lot more money in heroin in their wallet. Ah, yes, yes, yes. You got it, you got that, yeah. I wonder, was your father ever tempted to, since he had a boat, I wonder if he was ever tempted to make a little extra money smuggling cigarettes. Actually, I seen my father go back to Sicily once he was here in America, that they were starting to bring in heroin from boats. And he had to go back and make a point that they’re not allowed to come to the town with that. With the fishermen and, you know, there was a little bit of challenges. I don’t know if somebody got killed or something, but it never happened. They never brought the drug. Well, that’s quite a story from Sicily. You’ve got a heck of a story before you even got here.
[27:38] Really interesting story. I know these guys out here and myself included, we all are kind of fascinated by that life in Sicily and it’s even today, I want to get there myself one of these days. It just seems so romantic and got these little villages around and you kind of get away from this crazy ass life we live in the cities here in the United States. Sicily is beautiful as far as beauty. I mean, the sea, the Mediterranean, beautiful. It’s like we think about in America, go to the Bahamas, Bermuda, you know what I’m saying? Yeah, I know. I look at I look at the videos on YouTube all the time of people that have gone there, shoot videos of Sicily and get you get a villa where you can see Mount Etna, you know, from your window, your balcony and the ocean.
[28:32] And the Mediterranean Sea seems so blue there. It just seems so green, green, black. Crystalline is just pure. I mean, it just looks so good. Yes. All right, let’s move along in this next segment, let’s move along to your life in the United States and as your father.
[28:54] You know, he had a restaurant and there were mafia around and they had the lunch wagon business and so as you grew up and grew into that and those people were in your life, let’s talk about that. In the next episode, guys, be sure and watch the second part of this two-part interview with Giacomo Giacomo, a man who started his life in Sicily and saw Real Deal Mafioso carrying shotguns around in his small town, his village, told us all about what that life was like over there, and now, in the next episode, he’s going to tell us what life was like for an immigrant coming from the United States who then ends up working with some of the top Bonanno people like Rusty Rastelli. So thanks a lot guys. Don’t forget I like to ride motorcycles so watch out for motorcycles when you’re out there on the streets and if you have a problem with PTSD and you’ve been in the service the VA website has a good hotline for that and you know alcohol and drug addiction goes right along with PTSD and whether you’ve been in the service or not you can get hold of former Gambino man, Anthony Ruggiano. He is a drug and alcohol counselor down there in Florida and on his website and his YouTube page, he has a hotline. So give him a shot if you have a problem with drugs or alcohol.
[30:12] And don’t forget to like, and subscribe and tell your friends about the podcast and share it on your social media and do all those kinds of things and rest assured that I really like putting these out. And I really like getting these great mob stories. like we had today some really previously unknown mob stories and he’s got his books out there a father’s belief and I’ll have links to the Amazon page for those books so look for his books. Thanks a lot guys.
The post Growing up in Sicily appeared first on Gangland Wire.
In this episode, we explored the fascinating history of the River Quay area in Kansas City and its unfortunate downfall at the hands of organized crime. The conversation began by highlighting the initial grassroots development led by artists like Lou Marik and Philomene Bennett, who opened studios and attracted other entrepreneurs to the area. Marion Trozzolo renovated and leased old buildings to artists, boutique owners, and young restaurant owners. The area quickly became a hotspot for young people, singles, and live music lovers. The rise of the River Quay district also caught the attention of the mob, who wanted a share of its success. Members of the Civella family felt they owned this area next to the City Market. Nick Civella, the boss, operated through his brother Corky and underboss Tuffy DeLuna. Willie Cammisano, a capo for the mob, had a crew responsible for street rackets and enforcement activities. Despite the presence of the mob, many clubs and businesses thrived in the area. A large urban renewal project forced out 12th Street strip clubs owned by mobsters. Gary remembers working in the area and being offered drinks by generous bar owners. These events turned darker as tensions between a River Quay bar owner named Freddy Bonadonna, who owned a joint in the River Quay area, and the mob. The mob demanded a cut of his parking lot profits and assistance obtaining liquor licenses, but Freddy resisted their control. This resistance placed him at odds with the organized crime family and eventually led to dangerous confrontations. Freddy’s father, David Bonadonna, was found murdered in the trunk of a green Mustang, marking a tragic turn of events. Gary recounts this mob murder that was never solved and offers insight into the tight-lipped nature of the Kansas City mob when it came to disclosing information about murders. He shared stories about other mob members who were uncooperative with the FBI’s efforts to gather evidence. The conversation also mentioned a large brick building owned by Freddy and his brother, which was mysteriously blown up, leading investigators to suspect an insurance scheme rather than a mob war. The episode concluded by discussing the revitalization of the city market and downtown Kansas City, with new developments, lofts, clubs, and the construction of the T-Mobile Center. The River Quay area eventually recovered and became thriving once again, showcasing the city’s resilience. Support the podcast. Subscribe to get new gangster stories every week.
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Transcript [0:00] Well, hey, all you wiretappers out there, Gary Jenkins here, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Detective back here in the studio. I want to tell you a Kansas City story. I don’t often do Kansas City stories, but I like to do one every once in a while. And this is a story of give you a broad overview.
[0:17] This is a story of a grassroots entertainment district development that was really ruined by the mob. Urban renewal, mob bombs, a lot of stuff going on in this. Murders, there was an area close to the city market. It was along one street called Delaware, which was on one side of the city market was Little Italy, where all the mob guys, their families first moved to, where they first got their first jobs is at the city market. On the other side, there’s this street that had actually been the original downtown of Kansas City. The old city hall was on this street. a lot of big old brick buildings around here. But by 1971, 70, it was really run down and there was not much going on. Italian people had kind of, there’d been a highway that had cut down and taken out a lot of their houses and divided the city market from the rest of Little Italy. There wasn’t easily a way to drive through a couple of streets to get to the city market. The mob had always hung out at the city market. They had a proprietary interest in the city market. Here’s a former employee from down in this area named Chuck Haddox that will talk about this. The city market was adjacent to the River Quay, and the city market traditionally had been run by the mob. And so the mob really wanted to get in on the action.
[1:42] At the River Quay. You know, artists always lead the way to these kinds of grassroots development. Lou Merrick and Philomene Bennett opened their studio and other artists, that attracted other artists, and then these entrepreneurs followed, these opening businesses in the area. And it really was a grassroots scene led by the artists. It’s just kind of interesting. Ironically. Marion Trezolo’s revitalization efforts in the area
[2:06] Once the area becomes successful, the artists have to go find another area.
[2:10] Now during this time, 1971, a man named Marion Trezolo had a business down there. He was putting Teflon on pans, one of the early people to do this, and he was making a lot of money. And he loved all these old buildings. They all had these great cornices and doorways, and he loved that old architecture and loved these old buildings. And you could rent one, or you could buy one, or get a long-term lease on one for practically nothing, because everybody was moving out. Like I said, the early 70s, white flight was in full bloom. After the riots of 68, people were leaving downtown. They were moving out. The businesses were moving out of downtown. It was really, there wasn’t much left. We had one department store by then, a Jones store, I think. Maybe there might’ve been a Macy’s, but then they did hardly any business. And the government buildings, of course, they were the big employees downtown, but a lot of of apartment complexes and office buildings were being built down in the far suburbs and businesses were moving out there. Downtown was really was dying in 1971, 72. Well, Mr. Terzolo wanted to fix up an area down here by the city market, it was adjacent to downtown when the walking distance of downtown, the city center, the 12th and Oak and Main and the police department and the Jackson County Courthouse and the big federal building and a bunch of high-rise office buildings that at one time had been filled with lawyers’ offices and.
[3:38] Other businesses down there in downtown.
[3:41] He started buying these buildings or getting long-term leases on them and hiring young guys to go in there and just gut them out and use the exposed brick and the old wood floors, the old wood ceilings, beams in the ceiling. And they were cool. We’d never seen anything like that. And then he started leasing them out to restaurants, young people that wanted to start a restaurant. He had really inexpensive rates because he had very little invested in these buildings, art studios, art galleries, a little boutiques, other restaurants. A really cool restaurant started popping in because people, you know, they could take a risk. Now, I remember this one guy, Ellie Cohen, I think this dude’s name, I got to know him. See, I had a district car around there. And so I’d stop in and talk to these different people as they were putting these businesses up, just, you know, they were fun. They were fun, young people, and they had a lot of enthusiasm. So, L.A. Cohen, he started a restaurant called Cindy’s Bedspread. He had about 20 different hamburgers with 20 different toppings to put on them. We never heard anything like this in Kansas City. You know, at this point in time, you know, throughout the 50s and 60s, we had steakhouses, of course, because we’re steak capital of the United States at the time. Changing restaurant scene in Kansas City
[4:54] We had cafeterias, we had diners, we had little greasy spoons, and we had some bars and a couple of kind of nightclubs that had nice restaurants and a nice club that people went to. So, it was And those were all closing up in the center city.
[5:09] Particularly, except for the chili parlors too. We had two or three chili parlors. That was a big deal. Barbecue wasn’t even a big deal then. There was a barbecue, but it was over on the east side. Hardly anybody went there unless you were really, you know, you worked over in Midtown. You were a working guy over in Midtown. You wanted this huge, big lunch or dinner of barbecued ribs or something.
[5:31] The mob is watching all this as this guy is building up this area and it becomes a mentally popular i can’t explain it but it was like i had several clubs and had bands and young people start going my age i was twenty six twenty seven years old and all those baby boomers start going down there and party and then they were the kind of the first singles joints if you will before disco’s after kind of the old nightclub with jazz and that kind of a thing. Like this was, you know, had modern bands. I remember this one place, Ebenezer’s a guy named Irish guy named Mike Ryan had it. He had a, and he got it out the inside of this big building. And on in the center, there was an old offices, just a freestanding building. And he put the band on top of it. And then all around it, there was a bar. And then all the rest of it was all seating areas, really cool place. And so it was it was starting to pop and during this time as a guy named Freddy Bonadonna saw early on this was going to be a going Jesse. He was one of the first restaurant bars down there at Italian restaurant, of course, and he had had a Italian restaurant.
[6:40] A few blocks away south of downtown. One of there’s only two or three Italian gardens was downtown. Then Freddy’s can remember the name of that club or that restaurant. Now, mom did the the cookin’, you know, typical joint like that. Mom does the cookin’ and brothers and sisters work in there and to keep it going. So he buys a spot down there and he calls it Poor Freddy’s and he becomes kind of a mover and shaker. I remember we used to work off duty down there and Freddy, we’d go into his joint and he’d just get cash money out of the till and pay us for just walking around, providing security because there really wasn’t much going on. It was just a lot of young people having fun. It was a great place to work off duty, I’ll tell you that. Tons of girls down there, tons of single girls down there going to those joints. So, you know, we were all young in our prime. What are you gonna do? Mob’s skepticism and their realization of the area’s success
[7:30] The mob’s watching this, of course. Matter of fact, Corky Civella, the mob, the boss of our brother Nick Civella, once went into Freddy’s and said, you know, you’re an idiot. You know, there’s nothing going on down here. You’re never going to make any money. Then as this starts going and pretty soon they realize that there’s big crowds coming down here Wednesday, Thursday, Friday night and Saturday afternoon and Sunday afternoon because they’re doing a lot of things to try to get family people coming down. This Marion Trezolo, he really kind of let his other business go and took over management of this whole area. He bought a double-decker bus from England and were taking people on tours out of there to downtown and around Kansas City. So it was hopping and everybody knew it was hopping. Corky came back in there one time and Freddie says.
[8:21] Hey Cork, how you doing? I’m doing okay. I’m doing OK. So, you know, he said, this area, boy, it’s you know, ain’t nobody making any money down there. Boy, I’m sorry. I started this club down there. Corky, just like, you know, he was mad. I don’t know if this had anything to do with what’s going to happen later on. But but I know he was he was kind of bucking up and making Cork, you know, kind of playing the dozens on him. Like, oh, you idiot. I was one of the smart. You’re the one that’s stupid. So the Civella family. All right, I need to talk about the Mob family, which felt like they had a proprietary interest in the market. So, the Civella family, Nick Civella was the boss, he was a guy that never hit the joints at night, he read, he studied, he was canny, he was good in management.
[9:09] Guy, he was, you know, he only worked through his brother, Cork, and his underboss, Tuffy DeLuna. You did not talk to Nick Civella unless you were just, you know, joking around or something. As far as business, he only worked through these guys. His underboss, Tuffy, he had kind of a crew, a guy named Charlie Mortina and a couple other younger guys that there was, this was really the Kansas City’s hit team. They also kind of oversaw that another guy that was involved with them, Frankie Tooson, and later Pete Simone, who ran all the sports gambling. And that, of course, you get loan sharking, bust-out scams. But when you got into the lower-level enforcement, out of those operations, the higher end, they also handled the money out of Las Vegas, the skim. The Skim and Lower-Level Enforcement Activities
[9:57] When that started flowing in, this higher end, Tuffy DeLuna and Cork, Charlie Mortina, they knew about that. Lower level guys didn’t know about it. So on the lower level, you had Willie Cammisano, who had a big crew, who would be a capo of a big crew, who had really handled all the street rackets, hijackings, boosters, you know, who was fencing, who wasn’t, who got the records from the boosters.
[10:22] Arsons, arsons for hire, strip clubs, loan shark collection, any enforcement activities among all these minor criminals are out making them all money, that fell to Willie Cammisano’s crew. And he had a son who was about my age, Willie Cammisano Jr. who moved on up into that and became a maid guy and was involved with several murders. And Willie’s crew was really involved in those kinds of activities, unless it was at a certain level. There’s a whole other level that’s close to Nick Civella that Tuffy DeLuna’s crew took care of. Now, there were several bars. Now, we got the River Quay going, right? This is right north of downtown around the city market.
[11:06] But there’s an area called West 12th Street at the time. It was about six blocks west, say, of Main Street, six to eight blocks west of Main Street that had historically been, there was the municipal auditoriums there. They built Bartle Hall, which is a big convention area. Thank you. Historically, this had been the lower rent clubs where they have go-go girls and kind of a, as my friend Phil Carterella, a local lawyer, who your dad was a mob guy, says. They thought the way you made money off a bar was the way you made it, they made it on 12th Street, which is you get truck drivers visiting the city to buy expensive watered-down booze for 50-year-old whores. They had no idea what a singles bar was. These kind of low rent West 12th Street joints.
[11:59] Where a lot of Willie Cammisano’s guys had joints down there, Lonnie Roccaforte, Johnny Green Amaro, Joe Cammisano, Willie’s brother, and a couple of other guys. And Johnny Green Amaro is gonna come back into this thing. Johnny Green is kind of an interesting guy. You know what he specialized in? only out here in the West, shall we say, stealing saddles and had guys that would go to horse shows.
[12:25] And different places where there were horses and big horse barns. We have horse farms here in the city, out in the suburbs, steal saddles and other tack, steal horses, high-end horses. So he was like the original old West kind of a guy, although he was a city guy. He also developed what they called the Johnny Green ignition switch. Now, I don’t know if he really did that, but this is what what the bomb and arson guys used to call the Johnny Green ignition switch for an arson. They would take a gas pipe loose, let the gas start, take a lit cigarette and stick it into a book of the folding book of the throwaway matches, go for matches we used to call them, got light one and go for another, stick it in that book of matches.
[13:06] Let the cigarette burn down while the gas is filling up the room. And when the cigarette burns down to the sulfur on the matches and it flares and that flare will then explode the gas that’s already burned down there are down there and there’s like no the best thing our department can do and our bomb and arson guys can do is they go find where a gas pipe has been unscrewed and taken loose. And many times there’s enough of an explosion they’re not even going to find that. And this this will come into play here in a little bit. So West 12th Street, I remember I first came on, I like rode around the area and we had a few calls in there during I was working days. And then I had a foot beat. I didn’t I didn’t work foot beat all the time. I filled in for the West 12th Street foot beat guy. He was really well known down there. And I go in different clubs and all those bar owners be trying to buy me a drink or give me a drink. And and then one day, one of the girls was she was like coming on to me like crazy. But at least I had a little bit of sense when I was 26 years old. A lot of older guys than me didn’t have that much sense. I know that. Success is coming to the River Quay area, just a few blocks north of this West 12th Street area.
[14:13] Well, there’s a big remodeling rehabilitation project going on to build something called the Bartle Auditorium, which was a huge convention center. It’s about three blocks long. It’s right next to our old convention center, which I mentioned before, the Municipal Auditorium. They’re redoing that. They’re redoing an old theater down there called the Folly Theater, which had been a burlesque thing for a long time, for the last 20 years, and then goes all the way back to the 30s and 40s where it was a burlesque theater when burlesque was a little different. Anyhow, it’s kind of they’re rebuilding it and re-having it into a really high-end concert, small outlet for smaller groups and maybe the symphony and places like that. And there’s going to be a hotel, a Marriott hotel was going down there in this one long block where all these clubs were, these go-go clubs or strip clubs, whatever you want to call them. There’s a lot of money flowing into these guys to buy them out of their places, of course.
[15:17] They spent a half a million dollars, three quarters of a million dollars dollars in decorating little Las Vegas places down in the River Quay, thinking they could charge people $10, $15 to come in as cover charges to these great places. Success is happening down in the River Quay. These guys see that and they think, we got to go down there. Freddie Bonadonna is going good down there, and he’s going so good, he has a good friend on the city council, a guy named Hernandez, Frank or John, some common name Hernandez. Anyhow, Councilman Hernandez is his good buddy. So Freddy sees that these joints want to go in.
[16:03] And he knows that if those guys start going in the river, Quay is kind of kind of ruined the family atmosphere and the young people atmosphere that’s going on down to the young working people, educated people, because they’re going to start bringing in a different sort of a crowd. They’re going to be a lot rougher crowd. And and he doesn’t want that. He didn’t want to stop that family atmosphere because he could see it’s really going. He goes to the city councilman and he starts feeding the city councilman background information on people that are applying for liquor licenses because they can’t, they’re convicted felons, so they apply for them under another name. And then he’ll feed that info to the city councilman and he’ll go to liquor control and they’ll stop him from getting licenses. Now they end up with a workaround around that. The mob, you know, they’ve always got workarounds. A board, a politically appointed board that will hear appeals for any kind of enforcement.
[17:03] Activity that the city liquor control does or appeals for if you get denied a license. So pretty soon they’re getting their licenses because they’re appealing to this politically appointed board. So they’re starting to move in down there. And 12th Street has had gotten kind of tawdry. And we’re talking 12th Street downtown. And there was a remnants of what had been 12th Street, and there was a lot of strip clubs down on 12th Street, because of urban renewal, they were being torn down. And so, you know, the guys, the mobsters that were in charge of that particular, of those, that area, had no place to go. They wanted to keep their hustle going. So where would you want to take it? You would take it to the River Quay. Freddie has also, through his city council friend, he finds out there’s a bunch of unused parking they’re behind his joint, between his joint and the city market. There’s like about two blocks long area of parking that was for the city market, but it’s never used except on Saturday mornings. Illegal Parking Lots and Cash Profits
[18:01] During the week, it’s barely used during the day, and at night, it’s not used at all, especially Wednesday, big nights, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights, not used at all. So he gets a lease on these parking lots, and he starts putting a guy out there who will charge you a couple of bucks whenever you pull in. I remember pulling in there and this guy appears out of nowhere and said, that’ll be $2. I’m going, what the hell? This is Kansas City. You don’t pay to park here. He said, I’m going to tell you off if you don’t pay it. So you pay it. And he was making probably a grand or so in cash money in 1974, 75, every week out of that thing. And Willie and Joe Cammisano, Joe’s got a joint going down there by now called Cotton Eye Joe’s, And they see this money that Freddy’s making out of the parking lot. Well, Freddy has a dad named David Bonadonna, who is a longtime mob guy since he was a young kid, a burglar, and, you know, raised a family. And all his kids were pretty well on the straight and narrow.
[18:59] Freddy was not involved with any shenanigans or with the mob at all. But David was. And he was a maid guy. And he was in Willie Cammisano’s crew. Willie and Joe, they go to Freddy and say, you know, we need a little piece of that action. You need to help our guys get liquor licenses down here, and you need to give us some of that parking lot money. Freddie says, no, I ain’t gonna do it. His dad, David, is a made guy in Willie’s crew, so Willie talks to David and says, you know, you got to get his guy to do it. Well, so here’s former homicide detective Clarence Gibson talking about he was a family friend of the Bonadonnas, and so they would confide in him about some of these things.
[19:35] Now, this came from a relative. It didn’t come from any police sources. It came from some…
[19:41] Family members I personally knew David allegedly went and talked to Freddy. No pop. I don’t want him down here. So he came back and, he told, Willie he ain’t gonna happen. My son doesn’t want to do it and I’m not gonna force him and, Willie is allegedly said, you know, he could get hurt David responded with, you know, you’re going to hurt my son, you’ve got to come through me. Mob Meeting and Ultimatum
[20:12] Willie Cammisano and Joe met with Nick Civella at the bar, I guess the one downtown, and talked about it.
[20:20] Nick more or less said, you know, give him a month. You guys try to work out, you can’t work it out in a month, you do what you got to do. Willie’s threatened Freddie through his dad, David. And you heard what Clarence Gibson had to say about that. Freddie starts acting like he’s helping with the liquor license, but he really isn’t. Here’s what former FBI agent Bill Owsley has to say about that. Freddie Bonadonna was trying to keep the River Quay clean, wholesome, and open to family entertainment. That put him in direct conflict with elements of the organized crime family. Fred was determined that he was not gonna give in. So he opted to play one of the most dangerous games you can play. Outwardly, he was gonna help them. Subrosa, he was going to resist them. So, for example, he went to the developer, Canizzaro, who had bought out Trozzolo, and he said, listen, I can’t be there, I can’t be open, but when these guys come in, I’m gonna introduce them, and you’re gonna say you’re gonna back them? Once they leave, we have to resist them. Joe Cammisano, who was a brother to Willie Cammisano, wanted to bring the Go-Go Girls down there. But he couldn’t get a license, a liquor license, because the Westside councilman, who was Freddie’s friend from back in the day.
[21:41] Kept him from getting it because he had something to do with the electric control at that time. The leader of that West 12th Street group was Joseph Cammisano. His brother William Cammisano.
[21:53] Was a major player in Civella’s outfit. We go along for a while and Willie and Joe have really figured out Freddie’s not helping him. His dad David told Willie Cammisano, if you’re going to hurt my son, you got to go through me. So he went through him, well, he’s got a headquarters, a garage is all it was that really nothing went on inside. He added some table and chairs and coffee pot and refrigerator and kind of a little office like thing set up. And he would meet guys over there all the time. We used to watch this place all the time and see who Willie’s guys were. And when they were coming and going, it was like his own little social club. We had the social club, the Northview over in Little Italy. Well, this was Willie’s social club. It was just, you know, 536 Monroe all we ever called it. A citizen happens to see a green Mustang pull into that garage. David drove a David Bonadonna drove a new green Mustang. The same citizen happens to be out front when that Mustang backed out. Learns Gibson reports that a different driver backed that out because that driver did not know how to drive a stick. We were called to a green Mustang at 9th and Wabash an apartment complex and in the trunk was David Bonadonna. He’d been murdered. David Bonadonna’s Murder and Freddy’s Survival
[23:07] Freddie was alerted to what was going on. He had been talking to us. He’d been talking to the police. We had given him, you know, guidelines. He was watching himself. They couldn’t kill him. And, but it went on. This stalking, this back and forth. To make matters worse, Fred had thrown in with a guy named Sonny Bowen. Freddy starts laying low. I mean, what’s he going to do? Now his dad’s disappeared. And about two weeks later, they find his dad’s body in the trunk of the car over in the projects, which were reasonably close. Freddy, you know, the gloves are off. Freddy’s laying low.
[23:44] There’s some mob associates that are kind of on the outs with the Civella faction, and they start hanging around Freddy’s bar and restaurant. I remember this. We’re going, what is Sonny Bowen and Mike Ruffalo, and this Gary T. Parker and some of these that were kind of in between guys that were younger guys and more like my age and around they’re 25 to 30 professional jewel thieves and professional burglars and that kind of thing. And we knew that this Sonny Bowen was a pretty good thief and he had a contract on him because somebody had already tried to put a bomb in the blasting cap.
[24:19] Went off early and left some tissue and some detritus inside of his car. We knew there was a contract out on him. The Bureau had gone to him and said, hey, you know, there’s a contract on you. And he said, you know, he said, I can handle it. You know, don’t worry about it. So these guys are hanging out. Cops are called up to Johnny Green’s house, which is about a block from Nick Civella’s house. Now, this is only a block from Nick Civella’s house. And this little area we call Filomena Acres had Nick Civella’s house right Right across the street was Corky Civella’s house. Right up the street used to be Highway Simone’s house, Thomas Highway Simone, who was the old underboss. Now it’s Carmen Civella’s house, who is a nephew to Nick Civella. And then right next to Corky’s house is his oldest son and Nick Civella’s nephew, Tony Ripe Civella, who will go on and be part of the mob and do some time. Johnny Green’s Regular Routine and Fatal Mistake
[25:12] And several other Nick Civella’s driver, Pete Tamburello, lives down the street. And several other Civella associates live in this small neighborhood, suburban neighborhood, and Johnny Green lives about a block away. Wasn’t all mob people up there, a lot of other, but primarily Italian people from, moved over from Little Italy and over from Northeast, where all the Italian people had first settled.
[25:35] Their first move up the suburbs. Johnny Green, he always would close up his club, now he’s down in the River Quay by now, He’d close up his club. He would go to this restaurant, which was on his way home. I believe it was a Sambos. How many of you guys remember Sambos restaurants? They don’t call them Sambos. Couldn’t call them Sambos anymore, but went to a Sambos, which was open all night long. He would meet Joe Cammisano.
[25:59] And his wife, Doris, and they’d have breakfast after they closed their joints down. He’d do this all the time. He had a regular pattern of doing this. So once you get a regular pattern, dude, you better, you know, if you’re in this life, you better watch what you’re doing when you’re in this regular pattern. But people are people and they don’t do it. Left there, he drove on up to his house. He had a nice, you know, at the time, a newer house. It’s probably 60 years old now. It’s probably 10 or 15 at the time. Had a garage door, a garage door opener, one of the early garage door openers, pulled up in the driveway, opened the garage door, pulled in. Well, rather than just go ahead and shut the door as he put after he got inside, he waited, you know, probably got out and then walk up to the back door and hit the button. He didn’t he didn’t do that. Big mistake was he didn’t go ahead and start that garage door closing because he might have been alerted to something because Sonny Bowen and his fall.
[26:51] Partner, Gary T. Parker, had done a lot of crime together, were hiding around the alcoves of the garage and they just stepped inside, stepped up next to him and popped him with shotguns from both sides. Go back out, jump in their car and take off. And it’s a typical, I mean, these guys were mob associates. They weren’t mob members, they were associates. And but they did the mob thing. They threw the shotguns away about two or three blocks away and they dumped a stolen car not too far from that. So that’s typical mob hit a block or so, block and a half from Nick Civella’s house. It was like a slap in the face to the Civella faction. To top it off, Sonny Bowen, he goes back down to Freddy’s the next day. And there’s this one guy who I mentioned before, Mike Ruffalo. He was reporting everything that he heard to the FBI during his years.
[27:37] He reports that Sonny Bowen and Gary T. Parker are both bragging that they’re the ones that hit Johnny Green. Go figure that. Three days later, they’ve got a wake for Johnny Green down at Sabato’s Funeral Home, which is down in the North End of Little Italy. Wake for Johnny Green and Sonny Bowen’s Assassination
[27:52] Somebody comes in that night, we don’t know who, or they call in or they do something. And they say, hey, Sonny Bowen is out at Mr. O’Brien’s Tavern out at Armour and Broadway. It’s about 25 blocks south of there all by himself, car sitting out in front. They already have already obviously have a hit car lined up, a work car, as they call it, and mask and guns, because they go right from the wake. Three guys go right from the wake, jump in this car, head out and go in the back door. There was a back door and a front door. They went in the back door of Mr. O’Brien’s. Two of them split off, point guns at the rest of the people in the bar to make sure there’s no off-duty cops or anything that are going to try to be a hero. One of them walks right over to Sonny Bowen.
[28:39] And he’s sitting in a booth all by himself and pops him two or three times, kills him right there. Drive off, throw their guns away about three or four blocks away, drop the car off. Of course, that was never solved. Actually, we never solved any mob murders in Kansas City. Kansas City mob is tight. Nobody ever talked, and especially about any murders. They talked about little things. This Mike Rufolo, he talked about a lot of little things. He talked about one time Cork Civella hired him and a guy that he worked with on a regular basis to go plant a stick of dynamite underneath a strip club owner’s car and set it off in order to intimidate the guy because Cork wanted to muscle in on the strip club business. Little things like that, or the extortion of the parking lot money, and little things like that. But when they did a murder, they included nobody.
[29:29] That was ever going to talk, and nobody ever did. So the Bureau goes after this Gary T. Parker to try to get, maybe he’s got something, and he won’t talk about anything. They said, well, you know, know, your buddy, Sonny Bowen, is dead and you were part of it. We know you were part of that hit on Johnny Green. They can’t prove it or they would have charged him with it. But we they know he’s part of that hit because they’ve been bragging about it. But all I got is, you know, secondhand bragging about it. No cooperating evidence. And he’s uncooperative and he’s a drunk. He was a horrible drunk. He’d done do drunken things as at first they started trying to, like, you know, ride around with him and have another car behind him, trying to catch him, setting him up. Because we know that the Bureau has picked up from their informants and from some other wire that they had up that they’re in a frenzy to go ahead and do Gary T. Parker. Parker is going out to clubs and he’s getting so drunk that he’s getting in fights in the clubs because he knows he’s got these policemen and agents right there and they have to like…
[30:34] Throw him in the car and drive him back home and try to force him to go in his apartment. And one time, then they just quit riding with him. They just try to stay behind him. One time, he pulled over and jumped out and turned around and acted like he pulled a gun out and was pointing right at the guys that were following him who had pulled over. He was just stupid like that. Finally, they just let him go. And the mob just lets him go at the time. We caught him one time, A guy named Vince Bacone tried to set him up with a meeting, you know, set him up with a job or some money thing, kind of enticing to a meeting. And the Bureau found out about that and surveilled the meeting. And they saw somebody look like a hit team coming into the area. But, you know, those things are really hard. We had more than one example of them seeing us and a hit team seeing us, and us not being able to react fast enough to get them stopped or do anything with them. And as soon as they see us, they’re just gone. They’ll give up and try again a week from now or a month from now. Everything’s on their, to their advantage. And they’re sharp guys. These Civella hit teams working under Tuffy DeLuna are sharp people.
[31:43] You don’t want them after you. Seem like the mob just gives up on Parker T. Although not really. Freddie Bonadonna goes into hiding during this time. He agrees to help the FBI with an extortion case on the Cammisano brothers, Joe and Willie. Kind of get them for extorting money on the parking lot situation. You know, what’s funny about that is, Freddie said, you know, there’s one more parking lot about a block on down the street there that you could get, you could lease yourself.
[32:10] And put your own guy in there and collect money on. They didn’t want to do that. They just wanted some of Freddie Bonadonna’s money. Wanted him to do all the work. Typical mob deal. You do all the work and give me a piece of your action. And really it was just because his dad was in the mob. He was never in it. He was never even close to it. And I don’t think he ever depended on him for anything. He acted, you know, against their advice, really, if you remember the deal with Corks, and you know, you’re not gonna make any money down here. This is stupid. But Freddie has to go into hiding, and Freddie and his brother and another guy owned a large brick building in the River Quay. This is like the, this ended the River Quay, that whole area that had so much promise, and so many people were making a lot of money down there and helped to revitalize the core part of the city, bring people back into the city, to get people to live down around there. He had this large brick building and it had two clubs in it. There were mob associates, Pat O’Brien’s, and Pat O’Brien was half Italian.
[33:07] He kind of modeled it along the Pat O’Briens in New Orleans, even had the hurricane glasses, said Pat O’Briens on it. But he was a gambler, a sports gambler. He had actually been sent up to Council Bluffs, Iowa at one time. I think after this, later on after this, he’d been sent, he was sent up to Council Bluffs, Iowa with another mob guy, mob gambler named John Costanza. And they were supposed to set up a sports book in Council Bluffs, Iowa, but some local guys intimidated them or something, they ended up coming back. There’s a guy I had, Judge Roy Beans, the guy that owned it, ended up owning strip clubs ever since, and he was definitely a mob associate. So had these two joints running in it, they were way behind on their rent. Anyhow, they weren’t paying their rent, they were behind on their liquor bills. Freddie’s got a $100,000 damage insurance policy on this building. River Quay’s kind of going downhill, not much going on. He’s not earning money out of this building. So the two mob guys are, you know, They’re making a little money, but it’s not going to last. So what’s going to happen? The whole building gets blown up. They say it was a battle over the River Quay, and I talked about this being the war over the River Quay and that kind of thing. And that was the image that this explosion gave to this area. This was nothing to do with any war. This was to do with insurance. It was a huge explosion. Here, listen to what the commander, Les Hash of the bomb and arson had to say about that. Mysterious Buildings Disappear in Kansas City
[34:35] I received a call from her dispatcher about two o’clock in the morning and she stated that there was two buildings that disappeared. Nothing left but a huge hole. Aerial photo on the front page of the Kansas City Star showing this big hole in the ground. There was nothing but all the bricks that were in this huge big building were spread out for several blocks around, blew out all the windows around and dumped everything else in the basement of this building. We took all those bricks and detritus out of that, spread them out down on the river levee where there was nobody along there and we could spread them out and sifted through them and we never found anything. Ran bob dogs over them and they didn’t trip to anything. I think, again, it was a gas explosion, probably with a Johnny Green ignition switch. Probably it just got too much gas in there. I don’t think they really intended on blowing it up that bad because somebody could have easily killed somebody and they happened to be walking down the street next to it. A lot of articles in the paper about David Bonadonna and Freddie, and there’s another bombing on the back door of Joe Cammisano’s club, Cotton Eye Joe’s, the Northview Social Club. Somebody had put a bomb on the back door of that.
[35:46] So people are nervous. Kansas City has quit coming into the River Quay. Here’s what my friend Chuck Haddix had to say about that, and a pretty funny little story about this explosion. I just cleaned up the bar, and I had my cash box in my hand from the bar receipts. And all of a sudden, there’s this loud explosion. The building shook. I mean, we’re talking railroad cars shook. There were these cooks and these bus people out in the car, smoking pot in this car in the parking lot. And when the bomb went off, it blew the windows out of the car.
[36:26] And it dropped this heavy refrigeration unit right next to the car. If it hit the car, it’d killed them all. And they came walking in, beating on the back door, and they came walking in, and they were smoking.
[36:38] And I looked at them and I said, man, that must have been some dynamite shit you were smoking. And unfortunately, that really marked the end to the River Quay. I remember the next day I went to work. People were driving through looking at the crater, but people stopped coming down there. And the business dropped off greatly. And then Victoria Station, of course, closed pretty soon after that, because there just was no business. People were scared to go down there.
[37:04] So the River Quay is done. This whole area just goes downhill. They end up with a couple of strip clubs down there, some former bar owners from West 12th Street. Neither one of them are really successful. You can’t get people to come down there like you could when it was over in downtown, right next to the convention center. You got a strip club, those kinds of dirty bookstores and all that right next to a convention center where people walk out of the convention center. You see that within a block or two, you got something going, but this was like eight or 10 blocks away from the convention center. And the whole area was just returned really to a lot of homeless guys because there was a homeless shelter down there called the Helping Hand and the people working at the city market, which it wasn’t really a big deal back then. It was mainly just for businesses, for restaurants to come down there and grocery stores, small grocery stores. It was a produce market for them, but it really wasn’t even for the public to speak of. Freddie Bonadonna has gone witness protection. He’ll testify behind a screen in front of a congressional hearing on the mob in Kansas City and explain about this River Quay thing, because it really set Kansas City back. Since then, over the years, this.
[38:17] Whole River Quay area is now renamed the city market. Of course, they put condos and lofts and businesses, and it’s just as hopping as it was back then, but it really stopped it for years. All around Kansas City, all around downtown, is taking on that same kind of thing as most big cities have. The people, the lofts, people are moving back into downtown, clubs, and we built a big new auditorium, stadium for concerts and we just don’t have a sports team for it, but the T-Mobile Center, we have, you know, Taylor Swift will play that two or three nights in a row or Garth Brooks and those kinds of things. And a big, what they made an entertainment district just out of nothing, just tore everything down and built new buildings. And then all around that, it’s kind of leached out into that. So the old buildings are still being redone and in the city market, but they’re being redone, but it really set us back several years.
[39:17] Freddie, he’d been down in Naples, Florida running a restaurant for the rest of his life. He’ll sneak back into Kansas City once in a while, but he never really came back and showed his face. Of course, he lived in witness protection. He lived under that name the rest of his life. And I guess he didn’t want to give up witness protection. He’ll take his own life in 2002. So River Quay died, since then it’s come back and it’s jumping down, revitalizing downtown. We’ve even got a light rail that starts down there and goes out south to the Union Station and goes through downtown and by all these other entertainment districts I talked about. It’s hopping at nights. It’s crazy. So this is a kind of an example of the mob and their greed.
[40:02] And their way they do business of totally destroying downtown area for at least a period of time.
[40:10] I know back in Boston, they tried to, and I remember they started talking about this as it went down, have a red light district where you have a bunch of dirty movies and show theaters. And we did end up with one down there and strip clubs and all that kind of combat zone business. Now, it never went in Boston. They tried it in Boston, but it never really seemed to go. And it’s, you know, it’s really pretty distasteful. And it never really went in Kansas City. They did have a couple of those joints down there. And one of them, I told the story, the Bowery, they started to have it. Even one night, tried to have a live sex act, except the dude couldn’t get it up. I happened to be in there investigating a club that night. That was a hell of a deal. I remember this guy came off the stage and somebody, one of these jackoffs in the audience started yelling, ah, you couldn’t even get it up. What they did, they just simulated sex. And he said, man, he said, you get up here on the stage and see what you can do. The guy shut up after that. So it got kind of crazy for a while, but it didn’t last. That didn’t last either. The Kansas City mob all this time, you know, got all this street stuff going on. There was two or three more murders after this that didn’t have anything to do with the quay.
[41:17] But they had to do with other stuff, with cleaning up old business that people who are, they’re afraid were snitches and that kind of thing. The FBI is frantically trying to put in some bugs and get on some wires. They’ve got informants talking about whether having their dirty talk. Finally, they get a bug in and the mob, unbeknownst to any of us, for sure, other than by rumor, they’re out here skimming money out of Las Vegas.
[41:47] And so this is really the precursor to that first bug that you see in the movie, Casino. The reason they put that bug in was because of all this stuff I just explained and one other mob war, which I’d have to have a whole another podcast. I’ll get around to doing it. I tell this in my movie, Gangland Wire. I tell a lot of this River Quay stuff and you can see a lot of good images and everything of it. It’s a rental on Amazon for like $1.99. It’s the first documentary I really made about the mob in Kansas City. So I suggest you see that. So that’s the story of the war over the river quay. I thanks a lot, guys. I appreciate y’all listening. Appreciate everything you do. Anytime you give me a like or you join my Facebook group, Gangland Wire podcast, people send me money every once in a while. That’s kind of nice. I appreciate that. I like to keep this thing going. I don’t really do it for the money. If I did, I was working for money. I’d go back and be a lawyer and do something. I can really make money at. This is a labor of love. It’s a lot of fun, I really like doing it. I like this mob history.
[42:57] I’ve been kind of remiss in not doing Kansas City since I first started this thing. So some of that, a lot of you, if you’re on Apple podcast, they drop off after a while. So I talked about some of this stuff real early, like six, seven years ago when I first started the podcast. So if you’ve heard this before, it seems familiar. Maybe you’ve seen my movie or maybe you have, you listen to those early things, but most of you, I don’t think have. So I wanted to get this out and I’m going to do that mob, the next mob war that came on the heels of this, the Spiro brothers, which I did the movie about brothers against brothers. Introduction and Shout-outs
[43:32] And then I want to do one about the scam from Las Vegas from the Kansas City viewpoint. So I appreciate y’all turning in. Don’t forget, I ride motorcycles. So watch out for motorcycles when you’re out there on the street. If you have a problem with drugs or alcohol, go see our friend Anthony Ruggiano down in Florida or go to his website and get that hotline number. If you have a problem with PTSD and if you’ve been in the service, be sure and go to the VA website. They’ve got a hotline for that. And don’t forget if you’re like and describe if you’re on YouTube, like and describe. Don’t forget if you’re on YouTube to like and subscribe down below. If you are listening to this on the podcast app, you know, be sure you subscribe. I put one out or two out every week. I got, I don’t know how many, depending on the app you’re on, there’s as many as 400 and some back episodes. They keep you entertained forever. If you got one of those jobs and you can like listen to the podcast all night long. And I’ve had guys get hold of me and say, yeah, man, he said I did this on my job so I could just listen to your podcast all night long. So I appreciate those kinds of compliments. You know, I do the best I can. It’s a lot of fun. And I really appreciate you guys tuning in.
The post Battle for the River Quay appeared first on Gangland Wire.
Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. Gary shares an exciting story about Al Capone, the famous gang leader. It turns out that in the 1920s, Capone accidentally shot himself with his pistol. He ended up in the hospital with bullet wounds in his legs and groin. It reminded me of a similar mishap involving a policeman and his gun. Capone was playing golf with a guy named Johnny Patton, known as Burnham’s boy mayor. They were at a golf course called the Burnham Golf Lanes, where Capone had a .45 caliber pistol in his pocket. The gun discharged and injured him. Patton took him to the hospital in Hammond, where Capone was given a suite under the name Gary. He stayed with his guards until he recovered, and visitors were turned away to maintain his secrecy. The article mentioned some of his guards, including Louie “Little New York” Campagna and the Gennaro brothers. Capone seemed to be surrounded by tight security during his time at the hospital. Interestingly, the article also revealed that the golf course where the accident occurred was associated with the mayor of Burnham, who used the clubhouse for gambling and speakeasy activities. Overall, it’s an intriguing piece of Capone’s history, and if anyone knows more stories about him playing golf, feel free to share in the comments.
Gary encourages listeners to check out the Gangland Wire Facebook Group, which boasts over 50,000 members. While occasional arguments arise, we strictly avoid engaging in politics or bullying. If anyone harasses or bullies others, we promptly block them. As the group administrator, I dedicate a significant amount of time to handle any problems that may arise. Additionally, I have two co-administrators who assist me with managing the group. If you’re interested in delving further into the Kansas City Mob, you can find my movies on Amazon. “Gangland Wire” explores the skim investigation from the Kansas City perspective, offering unique insights not covered in the film “Casino.” A hidden microphone placed in Ross Strada’s tavern known as the Villa Capri first revealed the Las Vegas connection. I also have another movie available for rent that focuses on the mob war in Kansas City called Brothers Against Brothers: The Civella Spero. If you prefer reading, check out my book Leaving Vegas: The True Story of How FBI Wiretaps Ended Mob Domination of Las Vegas Casinos. It is available on Kindle for $4.99. You’ll find links within the book to listen to the actual wiretaps and conversations. For those interested, I also have physical copies of the book. At the moment, I can’t think of anything else to promote, but I want to express my gratitude to all of you for tuning in. If you or someone you know is struggling with drugs or alcohol, I recommend visiting Anthony Ruggiano in Florida. He’s a former Gambino soldier who is now a drug and alcohol counselor, and he has a YouTube page where he shares valuable information. So, please remember to come back and listen to me every week. Support the Podcast Subscribe to get new gangster stories every week.
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Transcript [0:01] Hey, welcome all you wiretappers out there, back here in the studio of Gangland Wire. I found an old article I think is really interesting. In the Chicago Tribune in 1920-something, I don’t remember the exact date, Al Capone, the headline was, Al Capone shot himself with his own pistol. It’s an accident. I never heard that story before of you, but it was right there in the newspaper. And it’s, I mean, I believe it. It starts off with Alphonse Capone, Chicago’s most spectacular gang chieftain, was in St. Margaret’s Hospital in Hammond. So this must be down by Hammond, Indiana. He had bullet holes in his right and left leg and in his groin. Oh, my God. I tell you what, we had a policeman one time that had an automatic pistol before you’re supposed to even, you’re only supposed to have the revolvers. But he bought off duty gun that was a semi-automatic. Mac, he jammed it down in his belt and he shot himself right down next to his nuts. I mean, and it went down through his side. I said that his dick hid for a week after that. Anyhow, I digress.
[1:08] He was out golfing with a guy named Johnny Patton, who was known as the boy mayor of Burnham. If anybody can tell me about Burnham, again, this must be down in Indiana. I got a feeling they’re in South Chicago. and they were on the Burnham Golf Lanes, which must have been kind of a short golf course. I think it was a nine-hole old-school golf course, carrying a gun in his pocket for some reason, which I can imagine Al Capone needed to have a gun in his pocket. It was a .45 caliber pistol.
[1:41] This was not a little .32 or a .22. And it discharged. It was in his right hip pocket. pocket it was it went down through the fleshy part of his right leg it the article said said it narrowly missed his abdomen it must have been an upper pocket i mean when they said pocket it must have been up here so i’d narrowly miss his abdomen and then embedded itself in his left leg, the boy mayor of murnham took his buddy al capone to the hospital to the hammond hospital hospital and he was given an extensive suite i tell you what you can’t make this shit up and under the name of gary g-a-r-y i called a doctor and of course they started doing the uh.
[2:31] What you call it they started you know doing whatever you had to do to make al feel a little better uh in the end he stayed there for a while until he had a complete recovery he had five rooms all together that were in his suite in the newspaper article they said the big fellas he’s known in gang circles the other four rooms out of these five rooms the other four were used by his, grim men as they called them slipping in and out and making sure that nobody got close to the boss to the big man to the big guy pistols were not flashed around but it seemed like there were sentinels around the hospital and outside remember the scene in the godfather where they’re supposed to be guards around the godfather all of a sudden they disappeared well these guards did not disappear and and they were looked like the reporter said they looked like they were ready for anything. Visitors and Guards at Capone’s Hospital Suite
[3:29] Now, the secret of his identity was kept pretty good until it leaked out, and then visitors started flogging into the hospital, and they were told, well, Mr. Gary, we don’t have a Mr. Capone, Mr. Gary, and he does not want to be disturbed. The cops never knew what it was, and nobody ever knew the name of his physician other than he was a local Hammond practitioner. One of his guards, according to the newspaper article, was Tony Little New York Campagna, and one of the Gennaro brothers and four others said they were known in the cryptic language of their own circle as La Cava, Felco, Perry, and Marcus.
[4:12] The scene of the accidental shooting is a golf course it was a track it was a force preserve leased out not long ago at this point in time to the park board of burnham and burnham is a small village and which is controlled by this guy that’s a mayor and a strong man named that was, playing golf with the big boy you know i heard another story and i think i may have even.
[4:36] Reported on this one time where Al Capone and Greasy Thumb, Jake Guzik, and Machine Gun, Jack McGurn, and Killer Fred Burke, or Fred Killer Burke were playing a game of golf, and they were playing it for $500, and Capone and Guzik won. They were shooting like in the 60s for a nine-round, nine-hole round. I mean, Jesus, I can play better than that. But anyhow, Capone was a pretty inveterate golfer, it sounds to me like. I don’t know many other stories. Any of you guys out there know any other stories about Al Capone playing golf? Put it in the comments. I think it’s really interesting. Now, this clubhouse and this golf course was controlled by the mayor, as I said. A guy named, what was that guy’s name? It was Bill, I think.
[5:32] I think Johnny Patton, the boy mayor of Burnham, he used that clubhouse as a gambling parlor and a speakeasy and a roadhouse, as they called them. I can’t remember what he used to call them. Anything out in the county was a roadhouse. We called them buckets of blood. So this is just another little thing out of the story of Alphonse the Big Guy Capone and playing golf with the boy mayor of Burnham. Very interesting I tell you what this Al Capone was, he is one of the most popular next to Gotti he is the next most popular person on Facebook if you can go by clicks it’s just crazy and there’s been so many books written by him that have really gone into his life with a fine tooth comb and there’s a new one real academic really thick book released just about the time I started this podcast that’s when I created my Kansas City Mom Tour app, I noticed that there was a Chicago app for a tour, and it was only in Capone sites. And so I got hold of that author, Jonathan Ige was his name, and he said he didn’t know, he didn’t do it. So I figured it out on my own.
[6:45] But, you know, just one more of the many little gang stories that we’d like to put up here on Gangland Wire. So be sure and check out the Facebook group. There’s 50, over 50,000 people in it. We get a few arguments once in a while. We get no politics and nothing like that. No way if you start harassing or bullying anybody, you start calling them bad names. You know, we just block you. I am the dictator. I am the boss on that Facebook group. get on there and if you have any problems, get a hold of me. I’m on there a lot. I have two co-fellow administrators that help me out with it.
[7:22] If you want to learn more about Kansas City Mob stuff, on Amazon I have my movies Gangland Wire, which is about really how we got into the skim and the skim investigation, the skim from Las Vegas. From the Kansas City viewpoint, that movie, Casino, would never really, they They might not have done that investigation, at least not the way they did it, had it not been for a little microphone hidden in Kansas City, not in a corner store, but in a pizza place, a lounge, Ross Strata’s Lounge. And I have my other one about the mob war in Kansas City, which I was right in the middle of, brothers against brothers, the Sabella Sparrow War, both on rent for $1.99. I got my book out there as a Kindles 499, and you can click on the links at the top of the transcript I used, and it’ll go to a YouTube or another Vimeo page, and you can hear the actual wiretaps that hear the actual guys talking. I thought that was kind of cool, and I figured out how to do that. I have the hard copy book, too.
[8:29] And I don’t know. Anything else promote? I guess not. But anyhow, that’s all I’ve got to promote. And I really appreciate y’all tuning in. And don’t forget, if you have a problem with drugs or alcohol, go see Anthony Ruggiano down in Florida. He’s a former Gambino soldier and a drug and alcohol counselor now. He’s got a YouTube page. And oh, I see I got a call coming in from another guy, from a mob guy, actually.
[8:54] And don’t forget, if you have a problem with, God, I’ve lost it. I got this phone call coming in. You know, this is a pretty spontaneous deal here that I’m working on. Guys, I’m using my, I don’t know if you noticed the difference. I’m using my phone to do a longer piece to see how it works. And I’m not going to edit it. I’m just going to throw it right on up. That was Sal Polisi that was trying to call. I’ll get back to him as soon as I get done here. So don’t forget to come back and listen to me every week. I think there’s something else I need to promote. mode. I like riding motorcycles and all that. So thanks a lot, guys.
The post Capone Shot Himself? appeared first on Gangland Wire.
In this episode of Gangland Wire, we are joined by former KCPD detectives Jim Harrington and Rick Smith to discuss a famous case involving mobster Angelo Porrello. The case revolves around stealing millions of dollars in diamonds and jewelry from a high-end jewelry store in Kansas City. The detectives initially suspected that a car chase involving out-of-town robbers from Los Angeles might be connected to the theft. However, further investigation revealed that the robbers were involved in credit card fraud, making it unlikely that they were responsible. Undeterred by the lack of leads, Harrington and Smith took on the case and gathered information through tips and informants. They discovered a possible connection to a man named Clarence Burnett, who may have been involved in the robbery. The detectives observed that the theft involved suspects arriving in a Jeep Cherokee and splitting up to break into the safe and display cases. They also noted that the suspects had previously committed other robberies, indicating a progression in their skills and targets. During their investigation, the detectives found links to a bondsman in Kansas City who bought stolen jewelry from the targeted store. Through surveillance, they identified Burnett leaving the bondsman’s location, leading to a breakthrough in the case. This information was shared with the FBI, who conducted a sting operation and purchased stolen diamonds, one of which was identified as stolen from the jewelry store. As the investigation progressed, Burnett was arrested for cocaine possession and persuaded to cooperate with the FBI. His cooperation helped identify the rest of the crew involved in the robbery.
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To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast. Donate to the podcast. Click here! Transcript
[0:00] Well, welcome all you wiretappers out there and back here in the studio, Gangland Wire. I have a really cool show for you, I think a couple of friends of mine, a couple of former KCPD guys, Jim Harrington and Rick Smith. Jim Harrington was a robbery detective and Rick Smith was a robbery detective at one time. Now they went on to have other things. Rick went on to be the chief of police and and Rick, you went. Were you a detective the whole time? In robbery, just in robbery. OK. Okay. So I remained in fact, in my whole career. Ambitious detectives discuss the challenges of higher ranks
[0:34] So one of you guys is ambitious and what I made so ambitious when it comes to management level stuff, although I understand Jim, you know, Sergeant was a high rank I ever wanted to be and I never wanted to go any higher. There’s too much responsibility. Everybody’s shooting for you all the time. It was bad enough being a Sergeant. Sometimes if you had the right job, as I found out to my sure again, there at the end, I He ended up back on dog watch at Metro when I had about 23 years on. But anyhow, I’m not bitter.
[1:03] But these guys worked a really, really cool, famous case. And it was on a mob guy named Angelo Porrello who was pretty close to Nick Savella at one time. I don’t know if he was a made guy or not. He’s never really showed up on the made guy list from the old days, but he was a real active member of the Civella crime family, and he had a pawn shop out here, and he was taking what we call swag. He was taking things that fell off a truck. But in this case that these guys work, he was taking $2 million or $2.5 million in diamonds and other jewelry from one of the highest end jewelry stores we have in Kansas City. So Jim or Rick, you know, whoever wants to start, tell us how you got into this case. All right, so robbery work to shift, a day shift and an evening shift. This happened at 10 o’clock in the morning and we weren’t working. It was the other, the B team was at work. So they responded to the scene, but it was a big enough case that it started to overlap the shift. And I think our involvement happened when.
[2:10] A Metro dog watch officer pulled over a car, and I think there might’ve been a short car chase. They stopped the car at 63rd Ward Parkway, and they had guns in the car. These guys were all from out of town. As it turns out, they were robbers from Los Angeles. And that case was big enough, the Tivol case was big enough that there was some thought that these could’ve been an out of town crew that had come in. Rick was convinced of it, and it made a lot of sense based upon the guy’s records involved. So we had them in, we served a couple of search warrants at some hotels on the Plaza, which made it even more suspicious they were closer to Tivol, but it turns out that the head guy or the, I don’t remember what the ringleader’s name of that group was, but he’s like, I’m not going to deny that I haven’t done crime, but I didn’t do that one. So you told him it was about a robbery of a jewelry store on the Plaza and it was almost like, oh, well, I don’t know what all I’ve done because I’m not from this city, but I I didn’t rob a high-end jewelry store. And we ended up working a couple days trying to establish whether it was them or not. And as it turns out, they were committing a credit card fraud at the time within 45 minutes of the robbery. And it didn’t seem likely that they’d just done a $2.5 million jewelry store robbery and they were trying to score a $2,500 laptop computer 45 minutes later up the street.
[3:34] So ultimately, that initial part didn’t lead anywhere. But Rick was adamant that this is a one-time in a career case and we should try to work it. So we ended up working it and working it and working it. And eventually, it got assigned to us. The original detective didn’t continue working it. We were lucky enough to be making connections with people outside that it made it easier just to assign it to us. Detectives take initiative to claim the case as their own
[4:00] Can I add to that, Jim? As long as you’re not going to talk bad about it, Yvonne.
[4:04] I’m not going to talk bad, but I am going to say that Jim and I were sitting in the squad room and we were talking and I said, we should work this case. Jim and I were having the discussion, we’re like, we should work this case. And Jim goes, it’s not our case. And I go, it should be our case because we’re the only ones putting any effort into it. I think one of the main things that came from the other detectives working the case is they set up off-duty at the Tibbles which needed to be done, but to Jim and I was not much investigative work. It was a necessary tangent of this case and off-duty, I think it’s still at Tibbles today, but.
[4:47] We wanted to do the investigative part and Jim and I decided at that time that we would Instead of just go behind the scenes, we go straight to that sergeant and say we wanna take this case, and that’s what we did. it. Do you remember that, Jim? No, I don’t remember saying that to that sergeant, but we had a really good supervisor. We did. We had a really good sergeant, but I remember walking into his office at the time and saying to him, sergeant, we would like to have this case and here’s the reasons why. And he was not too happy about the whole conversation, but in the end said, all right, I see you guys have a point. and he said, let’s see what you could do. And we were allowed to then go out and start working the case, not behind everyone’s back, but out in front. And that’s how it got started. And our sergeant supported us 100%. And the solvability of that case was pretty low.
[5:48] There weren’t a lot of leads, so there wasn’t going to be any forensic evidence to tie him to it at the scene because the way they were dressed and the forensics weren’t quite what they are today. Um, so we started, I had somebody that was telling me, I wouldn’t call him informant because he wasn’t, he wasn’t paid by, I had somebody that I had arrested before that was telling me. And Rick had somebody, I don’t remember the one guy who faded, but we had a couple different people saying that Clarence Burnett was behind it.
[6:22] So before we, before we go any farther, set the scene, how did this robbery go down? So they arrived in a, I want to say it was a Jeep Cherokee. They pulled up in front, just stopped blocking the first lane of traffic and they went in the store. They split up so somebody went to the safe. So they, you know, somebody had the assignment of getting in the safe and then somebody had a sledgehammer in there trying to break into the cases. Well, Tibbles has really, really, really nice cases, and you can’t get into them with a sledgehammer. So they beat on those, I think they struck one of the cases 21 times or something like that, and it just, it broke, but it never, it was like a windshield safety glass, it wouldn’t get out of the way. They ended up getting somebody with a key to open up, I think they only broke one case, they ended up getting a key to open up the backs of the others.
[7:19] And at the time, so there have been a series of robberies, and I should probably back up because… Previous robberies and the progression of the criminal crew
[7:26] Meierotto’s got robbed in February of 97, which is, you know, that’s a pretty high-end jewelry store up north of the river. That was Rick’s case. And he had that case from the get-go, he’d been working that, and that trailed off into a different series of crooks who didn’t do the robbery, but they had been doing a bunch of other stuff. But the Meierotto’s robbery really wasn’t going anywhere.
[7:52] And they had done it, they had, so this crew, when we found out later, they had robbed a McDonald’s, they had robbed a CVS, and they’d robbed a couple other places. And I think the idea was that they were practicing some timing. I never got that. They were, you know, robbing a CVS is a pretty low skill, same with a McDonald’s. I don’t know if it was practice, but there was definitely a acceleration going from like fast food, to CVS, to jewelry stores, as I remember. They had walkie-talkies and communication and, you know, masks, gloves, guns. I mean, they were definitely practicing their trade and getting much better and looking for bigger stores. Now, whether that was just practice or just how they evolved, I don’t know. But I remember Jim and I going back and looking at the earliest cases and where they were to where they had gone to, and there was definitely a progression in their amount of professionalism, so to speak, in their writing. Would you agree to that? Yeah. And I think the first, actually, I give, I say Meierotto’s was the first. I think it was a… A place at 75th and Wornall that was in- Pawn shop, wasn’t it? It wasn’t a pawn shop. I think it was a secondhand jewelry store, but they sold… So they advertised that they sold Rolex watches.
[9:14] So Meierotto sold Rolex watches, and obviously, Tivol sold Rolex watches. So there was sort of a common theme, and it’s not like we put all these things together as it was going on, because we didn’t know about the string until afterward. But when you look back, and they nearly got caught at 75th and Warnell by the best policeman I think we’ve ever had on the department. Well, one of the best. Gary, I think he took your position in intelligence. He lived there. He was a St. Peter’s guy. So what happens on Christmas- Terry Finn. Terry Finn. Terry Finn. There you go. So Terry heard the call come out at- Oh, that’s right. At the jewelry store, and he drove to where he thought … He wasn’t working. It was like a Saturday. Yeah. That’s- But Terry started thinking, because he lives out there, he started thinking, where are they going to drop that car? And he drove to what turns out to be the Sutherlands. Now it wasn’t then. It was still the AMF bowling supply place. He, and he was within like seconds of because that’s where they dumped the car. And Terry almost caught them there. The MO: Switching Cars and Dumping Stolen Vehicles
[10:12] Now was that part of their MO have a car to do the robbery and like bank robbers do, and then drop that car and have their other car waiting for them somewhere else and take off and switch cars. So they did that, so in the Tivol robbery, they left and Clarence was driving his personal truck that had a tonneau cover on the, so it was a pickup truck with a tonneau cover on it. And they drove that stolen Cherokee up to Loose Park, dumped it, and then they got in the truck, but they all laid down in the back. So it’s a single guy driving a Dodge pickup truck, it’s not three guys in a Jeep. And then he just drove back over to his house. Yeah, now you mentioned the name Clarence. Now, Clarence is Clarence Burnett, or a guy they called Papa, who was the ringleader of this crew, and also a drug kingpin, a cocaine kingpin at the city at the time. Is that right? Yeah, so I’ve heard him called Pawpaw, not Papa, but I think it depends on who’s talking. Okay. Yes, Clarence was the driver. He set it up, and he drove his personal truck to pick up the guys when they dumped the car. So now you’ve got the robberies happen, it went down like this, they’ve gotten away, as you start your investigation, you start pulling similar, try to find similar crimes and see if there’s a pattern here.
[11:34] And so then you start running down different tips and you’ve got informants that are talking about different people. So how did it work from there? What was your kind of your next avenue? You say you had somebody that mentioned this Clarence Burnett? We did, but that was, so the FBI was pursuing some leads and we were pursuing leads separately. It was not a cohesive investigation at the time.
[11:57] But we got invited along because they had information that they had a bondsman in Kansas City was buying, he had some of the stolen jewelry from the Tivol store. Here’s a funny thing about the Rolex watches though. So they didn’t take any brand new watches from Tivol. The only Rolex watch they got was out of the safe. It was in for repair. And it was a Kansas City criminal defense attorneys whose watch was in the, that’s the only Rolex that they got. I think it became probably apparent to them and it’d become apparent to me and Ricky over that year that that wasn’t a really good thing to steal. Those are, they have a serial number on them and you could go back and get records from 1973 to now on who that watch, so where that watch had moved. If it had ever been for repair, it was logged. It was a pretty intricate system. And I think it must have become apparent to them that that was a bad thing to steal because it was easy to, I think it would be easy to get caught selling. Sting Operation at the Bail Bondsman
[13:03] But so we, we have, so the FBI got somebody assigned to it and we’re, we’re talking to them, but we’re really working two different ways. So we get invited on a surveillance because they’re going to buy some of this purported stolen jewelry from Tivols and we help with the surveillance.
[13:23] And it’s a bondsman downtown on, was it on 10th street? Tennessee Bond, he was on 10th street. So we’re helping with the surveillance, but we’re sort of extra, we’re sort of moving around. And somebody, there’s lots of cars pulling up in front of the bail bond company. And one of them leads, and then right after that, they say, the bondsman’s ready to deliver the jewelry to us. So if anybody saw a car and we said, well, yeah, we can still see the car. So we go catch up to the car and we pass by it. And I recognize Clarence Burnett from previous encounters with him when I was in a uniformed officer and attack unit. So we’re like, holy shit, that must be the guy who’s, you know, so we already had the name. And then here he is in the car that just left the bondsman when supposedly the bondsman’s gotten a delivery of some of the Tivol jewelry. So, they took that jewelry to… When they bought that jewelry, they checked that in-house.
[14:24] And then, remember, then we set up, I think we leveraged somebody, and we set up the sting at the Embassy Suites on the Plaza, whereas that F.B.I. Came in with a team, and that’s when we bought some loose diamonds, and they ran him down the freight elevator and I was waiting at the base freight elevator I took those loose diamonds went to a jewelry store Brian Skorkin and in he had a store in a Plaza at the time and ran up there and he looked at him underneath the microscope and found one that had a serial number I guess the certain brand of diamond had serial numbers embedded in the diamonds and it was one of the stolen diamonds from Tivol. And that’s how we made the connection. Tracing the Serial Numbers and Making the Connection
[15:15] Because otherwise they’re going to have to, so each diamonds, especially expensive diamonds are mapped by probably not the right term, but they know, so somebody’s drawn a map of what the diamond, the shape is and the clarity and all the other stuff that they tell you when you’re buying your wife’s wedding ring.
[15:34] But that’s a little harder. Some of them are, or some of the jewels at Tivol had a serial number etched on the crown, the side of the crown, and you could see it. So they said, well, yeah, this seems to be a pretty easy call. There’s the serial number and there’s the list of not every diamond had it, but some of there’s a specific brand of diamond that does that. If you’ve got one that you can identify that came out of the table for sure, by that number, all the others with it, you just pretty much assume that’s part of that swag. So let’s go back to that first sting at the bail bondsman downtown and you identify Clarence Burnett. Yes. Then what’s your next step right after identifying Clarence Burnett? Well, then we we have a you know Meeting after that that operation was over and we said hey, you know our we have sources saying that it’s Clarence Burnett is the person who did the robbery and You know you guys called out that car Ricky and I followed it and I can tell you that was Clarence Burnett in that car, So that sort of started the you know, that’s a big break, you know, at least you know You know where you’re going. I mean, so then we started working it from that angle, but the FBI continued So I was, I forgot about the embassy suite, but they did the second takedown and then they.
[16:47] The bondsman flew to Dallas and this, this FBI agent was, I mean, that was his undercover role was a jeweler. And they, I don’t know what else they bought from him. So they had, the Bureau had an undercover who was saying he was a jeweler, kind of like John, what’s his name? Pistone, Donnie Brasco. His cover was that he knew a lot about jewelry. So they had somebody. Is that who set up the original bondsman in Kansas City, that guy there, that agent?
[17:22] So he’s just a guy, he’s just an actor that they, that the local office brings in because he is a jeweler. I mean, I think he’s legitimately knows everything you, he could go sell jewels, is what I’m saying. So they brought him in specifically participate in that part of the operation. The FBI’s Undercover Jeweler and the Bondsman’s Role
[17:42] And again, we weren’t, so we weren’t really, we got invited to help with the surveillance. So all the pre-planning that was going on, we weren’t really a part of, we didn’t get invited. So they had, they had somebody next to this bondsman downtown, and then they bring in this jeweler to identify, help identify those diamonds and that kind of thing, but they don’t really take him down at the time. They- Oh, there was some time and- Are they the ones that bought the diamonds in that day after Clarence left, he delivered them? Yeah. The bondsman had it, and then the Bureau bought them from Clarence? No, we bought them from the bondsman. I mean, from the bondsman, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, man. Okay, all right, all right, I’m with you now. So then they start pursuing, they start pursuing the bondsman. Right. But as it turns out, he’s only got, so I think they eventually bring him in and he says, so he’s done, he’s on videotape, he’s done.
[18:41] But he says, I didn’t set this up and I didn’t buy that many pieces of, I know Clarence from bailing him out type thing, but I didn’t buy that much jewelry from Clarence. It certainly wasn’t what was reported to have been taken in the in the robbery. And I think that was an important part, too, Jim. The relationship between Clarence and Guy Bessin is that guy had bonded Clarence out for his other criminal stuff on other charges. And I think that’s how he made that connection into them. And that’s how the that’s how the connection was made from The people were taking in the proceeds from the robbery to how do we get the people who are actually going to do the robbery? That connection was through that bonding company that initial I think like introduction. Would you agree Jim? Yeah Yeah, so then it was gonna it was gonna it was gonna take a big fence for two and a half million dollars With the jury. Yeah. Yeah, then the beer and the Meierotto jewelry was it was valued at last but it was the true value that Meierotto’s had paid for it. It wasn’t the MSRP. What Tibbles was, I think, was the MSRP. Oh, really? Meierotto’s was the money because Meierotto’s was out that money. Yeah, that was their. [19:56] That was their hit you’ve got the bail bondsman. They leave him out there, continue to operate, and they’re continuing to find other people that can buy some of this jewelry from is that. Was that the kind of the. Well, you know how slow the Feds move. So, you know, it’s a slow, methodical investigation. Yeah. And then and I don’t remember the exact amount of time that he was out. But then when we when they do get him in, it seems his story makes sense to me that he didn’t get all the jewelry. He didn’t set up the robbery. His part in it was he got a few pieces and he was trying to make some money on the side. I got you. Does he set up other people, then they go on to other people to buy some more of this jewelry back? No.
[20:45] I think he tells them that it’s Clarence Burnett. He confirms it was Clarence that’s doing it, but that’s sort of a dead end. And so that’s, that’s junior Bradley’s illegitimate son. Junior Bradley, the Mob Fixer, and Mob Connection
[20:57] So I don’t know anything about the guy, but it’s the bail bondsman, the bail bondsman and junior Bradley’s. Yes. Okay. And, and guys, for those of you who don’t know, I’ve talked about him for junior Bradley was a mob connected fence in Kansas city. He was the, he had a whole store filled with boosted goods down the city market. Some people claim he’s a made guy. He was half Italian, but he was the guy for the mob in Kansas City. There’s no doubt about it. He was Willie Cammisano’s guy, and he kicked up to him all the time, and he was a fixture. He ran information in and out of the penitentiary system. I know a guy that was given the job of taking care of another internationally known mob guy in another penitentiary, and I said, well, who told you to do that? He says, Junior Bradley got hold of me while I was in the joint and said, expect this guy. So Junior Bradley was the mob fix it guy for the Kansas City mob and the main mob fence. So he got into it. So how do you, is that how we get to Angelo Porrello? Is that how do we get Angelo Porrello then? Completely disconnected at the time. Well, continue on then. So, and it, you know, this took a long time. I’m telling this story like it’s really happening fast, it’s really not happening fast.
[22:15] So we started looking at Clarence, Ricky and I started looking at Clarence for this, and the FBI starts to look at Clarence. And then I think probably the next step was we got to, that Porrellos had fenced some of this stuff. And Porrellos owned a pawn shop at Brush Creek or Paseo. And then while we’re working all this, Clarence gets arrested in Oklahoma, Texas, somewhere in a Winnebago with like 30 kilos or 30 pounds, whatever. I didn’t work drugs, of cocaine. They have a speedy trial at the defense’s request and they get a speedy conviction. So now before we’ve ever even indicted him for the robberies, he’s got a conviction, conviction, a sizable conviction for cocaine and by the way, at this time, it’s that case is moved from the case agent who originally had it to some other detectives or some other FBI agents in squad five that are the typical case is yes, I’ll move to this other squad. Well, so squad five always had it, but some other detective or agents start getting added because it’s getting it needs more agents. It’s it’s and we all know there’s a difference in agents just like there’s a difference in cops and there’s a difference in detectives. There’s, it can be a huge difference in agents. So you got a good, aggressive guy on it. It sounds to me like Clarence is now, he’s got this big sentence pending down in Texas.
[23:42] And you probably don’t know any more about that, but obviously somebody set him up. You just usually don’t just snatch somebody off the highway with a, in a Winnebago and get that kind of seizure. Somebody set him up down there. And so now he’s, somebody’s going to go down and start working him, I have to assume, you know, we know you know about this. Maybe we can help on your cocaine thing. Is that how that went down next? Yeah, so we weren’t really involved at all at that point. But yeah, somebody from the FBI then starts, you know, working that angle of, you know, we know you did this robbery, you can help us out. We can help you out with your current legal woes. So then he starts cooperating fully.
[24:25] And that’s when we start getting the names of the rest of the crew, right? Because before, we had some ideas, but we didn’t know who was in the crew, correct? We didn’t know the whole crew, correct. Yeah.
[24:38] I mean, we knew who his best friends were, the ones he was getting stopped with, but We didn’t have anybody that said, because the crew didn’t stay the same. The crew changed from robbery to robbery based upon, I’m guessing, who was getting along, who was in jail, that type of thing. And then, so then we started getting the different people in the crew. And so the Meierotto’s robbery is sort of a key event because that crew changes from a bunch of pretty hardened career criminals to the guys that Clarence hung out with. So his friends, people his age that he knew. And then that’s when I think, I’m guessing, that’s when they had to start practicing because the crew that hit Meierotto’s was a seasoned crew.
[25:31] In fact, they did a robbery up on Vivian and North Oak at a bank that a Kansas City police officer off-duty interrupted and killed one of them. They got convicted for the, so his death, they got convicted for the, his death that happened in the commission of crime. So they were in, I don’t know if they were all of that crew that robbed that bank, but they were at least two of them. Because the only conviction that, the only person we didn’t convict in the Tivols conspiracy was one of those guys that didn’t matter, he’s doing life in prison for that robbery where his cohort got shot.
[26:10] So I wish I had a better idea of how quickly, I mean, how it all meshed together, but it was it was really slow and stuff just rolled in. So it just clipped building. Clarence is talking to y’all now and naming his crews. And you’ve got these disparate names. You’ve got these hardened criminals were part of it. And you’ve got these guys who were his friends who are less hardened criminals that have been practicing. And you’ve got him. He’s telling about it. And I assume you get those guys in now. Is that when they start talking about the Porrellos? Because I’m really curious how they made that connection with the Porrellos. Porrellos pawn shop was in the African-American area of the city, shall we say, Brush Creek and Paseo. And Clarence Burnett was African-American. So had he been doing some business with Porrellos and got to know them? I mean, Angelo Porrellos is not going to just do business with the next guy that comes along. And I, you know how that went down now. So that’s again, Ricky stepped out. So that’s part of the FBI stuff that we weren’t part of.
[27:15] And maybe Ricky has more information on that when he comes back in. But and so I talked to Clarence, but I didn’t debrief him as much as somebody from the FBI did. So we had information.
[27:27] And then Becker always had the case. So Becker had the robbery and the stuff from get go. It just played into his hand that Angelo was part of it. And so guys that he’s talking about Paul Becker, Paul Becker is probably the single most aggressive US attorney that we’ve ever had in this city when it comes to prosecuting the mob. Paul Becker, the relentless prosecutor
[27:52] And he is like a dog with a bone when he gets on something. If you get in trouble, you do not want Paul Becker prosecuting you. Just trust me on that one. He’s a good guy if you’re on his side, but if you’re on the other side, he is a dog with a bone, man. And so we’re talking about Paul Becker and, and then turn in Clarence Burnett and pulling in the Porrello father and son crew. How did you know, remember how that happened? I don’t remember how we got to Porrellos. I thought that we had done, someone had gone to that pawn shop or said, that’s where they unloaded the Porrelo’s crew. Is that that’s where they started unloading some of the merchandise. I think that’s how we got the pros, but I can’t remember Specifically who said it or when we got there. We didn’t have so we had the innuendo that Clarence dealt with Jays Jay’s Pawn Jay’s Pawn. Yeah, so we but it was nothing that was sticking It was you know, you couldn’t take it to court. You couldn’t you couldn’t get a sir You couldn’t get anything based upon the information. We had it. What just wasn’t strong enough so the FBI was getting the information about.
[29:02] Angelo Porello at the time that Joe was running Jay’s Pawn, he also had a jewelry store at 75th in Baltimore, Porello and Sandridge’s Jewelry Store. If you’re looking for a way that, because that’s a lot of merchandise, as I said earlier, how do you get rid of that? Well, having a legitimate, quote, jewelry store would be a good way to get rid of some of that merchandise.
[29:28] Well, not only that, But the pawn shop was taking in street level stuff and this is all high-end. I mean quality stuff So to get the most money out of it by transferring it to your high-end quality jewelry store Gave him the mess, you know the best bang for their buck. So to speak of Getting the proceeds from the the items from the stones Right, and I think Joe at the Joe had studied diamonds. He could do legitimate business as a diamond seller. He was knowledgeable enough to know. What was good and what wasn’t. And that’s the son Joe Porrello, who was not really a criminal, particularly like his dad was. Joe Porrello, a non-criminal son in a criminal family
[30:12] His dad was a longtime mafia associate career criminal. The son was not really a criminal. I think it was even his adopted son, I’m not sure. Porrello and Sandridge or whatever, they had the name Sandridge connected to that store on 75th and Baltimore. And guys, 75th and Baltimore is more in the Waldo, what we call the Waldo area, in the Brookside area, And it’s real close to a lot of high-end neighborhoods. And Sandridge’s, Eddie Sandridge was a long time jewelry thief and fence and his brothers, and they’ve been Mob connected for a long time. So the Sandridge’s even had a place on the Plaza at one time.
[30:52] They had a lot of connections, and they had a lot of people that knew that name to have higher-end stuff. So it makes sense that you would then fence it out through the one at 75th and Baltimore. It’s also a half a block from the original. So the first I said, you know, they did it. Yeah, don’t go robbery. It’s a half a block from that store. Very interesting. So there, the Bureau’s bought some of this stuff. You mentioned some other sting operations where they just like unrelated to this, or was he fencing it to more than one person? And then they made some connections to get it back. What about these other stings? So the only other sting I’m aware of is the agent, the FBI agent who was a jewelry dealer, Tony Gillihan, the pawn shop guy, went to travel out of town and met with them, which was all videotaped and stuff. So that’s the only other sting that happened. But that’s already happened. So that’s before Clarence gets arrested and is telling his story. Yeah, but that was some of the Tivol jewelry, the Tivol pieces? Yes. How did that… I can’t understand how that connected exactly. So, they actually have, I’ve seen the video and I just don’t remember it all, but Gillihan.
[32:07] So the guy that’s, he’s talking on the video about, well, you know, this came from the Tivol Jewelry Store and you can see Gillihan’s like, shut up, but he’s not. So Gillihan says yes. So he reluctantly agrees to some of this stuff, but they have it on, they have it on video that this came from a Tivol Jewelry Store in Kansas City.
[32:27] Whole separate operation, sounds like. Yeah. Okay, moving right along, so Clarence Burnett buries Angelo Porrello and his son, it seems to me like. Clarence Burnett’s testimony and sweet deal
[32:35] He testified and he worked a pretty sweet deal. He did sometime, but he probably was looking at 30 years for that much of a cocaine. The cocaine was 30 years, but he never got charged with any of the robberies.
[32:50] So when he got the customary cooperation, it was off that 30 years. And then he got more and more and more, and I don’t know any of the details, but I know enough. So he testified for the Feds in a stolen auto ring that involved some chiefs at the time. He participated in that, or he cooperated in that. So when they brought him in, he not only gave up Borello’s and the Tivol Jewelry Store and the guys that did it, he also gave up a stolen auto ring that he was involved in. And I remember that Derek Vandover, I think was the chief’s name, and he was involved in that and they were stealing these high-end cars. And I don’t remember if they’re re-tagging them or what they were doing with them, but he gave all that up too. He was pretty valuable informant. Of course, he had 30 years to work off. And he worked, so he got half and then I think he got half again and his sentencing, I don’t think Mrs. Meierotto was very happy. In fact, she was pretty voiced her. Because when Meierotto’s got robbed, they got guns stuck in their face.
[34:00] They were in the business when it happened, and their guard was disarmed.
[34:05] It was a, you know, it’s something that family’s never going to forget that, because they were, they thought they were going to die, I suspect. So how, were you in the courtroom? How did he testify? I’ve seen him on the internet. He’s got this little hour and some long documentary that he has made, it looks to me like. I think he’s back in penitentiary now for a probation violation, I couldn’t seem to find him anywhere. But so what was that like? How did he testify? He’s pretty glib and pretty articulate.
[34:35] Well, he’s, he’s very smooth. And he’s very believing, you know, believable. He’s very good at testifying, in my opinion. So he just looked right at Angelo Porrrello and said, he’s the man and looked at his son said he’s the man. Yeah. And you know, there was a lot of other stuff. And do you who the attorneys were for the Porrellos? Well, I understand David Helfry, who was the strawman attorney for the skim cases for the prosecution, who is now doing white collar crime operation. I understand he was one of them was Joe. He was the one from St. Louis that came in, but he’s pretty high dollar. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
[35:10] So Porrello had a lot of money. I mean, he, they, they had a lot of money. The Porrellos’ wealth, legal representation, and prison fate
[35:14] I don’t know if they made him forfeit anything or, or how that went down, I know Angelo died in prison at about 99 years old down in Springfield. And Joe and Joe, did he die in prison? I knew it. And I think early age. Yeah. Didn’t he have a cancer right when he was getting sentenced, Joe?
[35:31] He might. Uh, the Angelo tells the story that he was, he was trying to set up Joe in a business so that Joe could have, you know, a business that was his after Angelo was. Gone. I don’t think he’s that good of a he was that good of a father. He would have let his kid cooperate because how much you know, Angelo was going to die in prison one way or the other. I think he I don’t think he was that he wanted to make himself look like a good father and I didn’t really buy it because Joe should have been allowed to cooperate and get out of jail at a reasonable time. Right. I’ve heard this from somebody else that when they got ready to go, of course, the Bureau comes to them and, you know, would do a deal here. And they always offer some kind of a deal. And Angelo, they were not going to really give him much of a deal, but they would have given his son a deal, a really sweet deal, if he’d testify against his father and about this whole operation.
[36:24] And his father, I understand, told him, you cannot testify, you cannot take a plea. We’ve got to to have a trial on this which is goes right back to Nick Civella. Nick Civella never allowed anybody To plead out when he was alive So that’s that was a mafia discipline coming down to that level is what that was if you ask me Yeah, cuz me and the FBI agent who took over the case We went to the pawn shop and we talked to Joe Prior to him getting arrested and I think he was really close to he was he was afraid He was not a criminal. He was not a hardened criminal. He was I think toughest thing was him was he wasn’t going to turn on his dad, but I think he would have. I think he would have, and I still to this day think he should have cooperated and got a better deal.
[37:10] Interesting. I think, sorry Gary, one of the things, you know, we talk about it, that was fascinating about this case is how, you know, Fish and I both work Center Zone. We chased Clarence Burnett when he was 15 years old, stealing cars. He lived at 33rd and Tracy, and I mean, he was just a young kid in the neighborhood who, you know, was looking for an opportunity when, you know, back then you’d pop the steering column on the old Chevy and you’d steal it and drive around. We would chase around the blocks there between Linwood and Armour in his car, between Paseo and Shrewish, running in there, because I’d run home.
[37:54] 30 30 trades, because he didn’t know anywhere else to go. And so, I mean, it is fascinating to see and then how that three-level crime evolves and turns all the way into a mob connect. Evolution of Crime and Mob Connections
[38:08] Yeah. I mean, I just, through my years, I’ve never seen that portray out, you know, to evolve or evolve to that kind of criminal activity. Yeah. And it was really fascinating to see that.
[38:22] I never have either. And this guy, this Clarence Burnett, he’s one of these guys that if he just hadn’t gone down that criminal path, if he hadn’t had that twist in his brain, he would have been successful. Because I think if you followed him after he got out of prison, he got into buying and selling houses and real estate. And then he cheats somebody out of $20,000 in a real estate deal and they file charges against him and they violate his probation or his parole. And so he just keeps bouncing in and out, but he’s real bright. And and he can and he’s could put things together and he’s smooth. You know, I don’t know. He put this documentary together, guys. I’ll put a link to that documentary where he tells his side of the story and about that and a whole lot of other crimes. And he talked to some people that are in witness protection on the phone. And this guy is something else. I got to try to get ahold of him and get him on the show. But tried. I can’t seem to find him right now. So he’d be way better than Fish and Rick. TV Show and the Tivol Robbery
[39:25] So there was a TV show, it was a Canadian production that came in town and wanted to do a story about the Tivol robbery. Yeah. And it was called Masterminds. In fact, he has a link to it on his website. So he’s a criminal and he’s not my favorite person. He’s victimized a lot of people. Yeah, he is. He is. But I could see which way this show was going and it wasn’t to my liking, but I participated. So So they asked me, they said, well, you know, what do you think will happen with Clarence when he gets out? I don’t appear on the, my clip doesn’t make the cut. I said, well, he’s a criminal. He’s been a criminal his whole life. He may not, when he gets out, he will commit crime again and he will go to jail again, but he’s probably going to do something more of a white collar crime because he’s a smart enough guy not to, you know, you get a lot more time if you pull a gun on somebody than if you convince them to give him your money. So I didn’t make the edit, but his attorney said, well, I’d like to think, you know, in a, you know, with different circumstances, he’d be managing a store on the Plaza. And that made the clip. I didn’t make it. But I, he’s a criminal. He can’t, he can’t do anything but criminal activity.
[40:40] There’s a couple of things, Jerry, when we had Clarence’s car, his car towed at some time during the operation. We were watching some things and we had his, wasn’t it his truck we towed, Jim? As the tow got- Yeah, and we had the helicopter up. He he went and got his car He pulled it a hundred feet down the drive and the helicopter goes he’s out of the car. He’s going around the car He’s checking the whole car. He’s on his back underneath the car. I mean he he’s looking for a tracking device Yeah, yeah, he he was on it You know He was constantly thinking about how the police and several times we tried to follow some of him and his associates and I mean, it was a nightmare. I mean, they were taking evasive action. They drive a hundred. They would, you know, go down streets and blow stop signs and all kinds of stuff. I mean, they were that part of the streetwise crew. They were very streetwise, in my opinion, some of the players. Now, some of, like Jim said, some of the friends, maybe not so much, but the people who were in it constantly, they were very streetwise to the police. Yeah, they were calling out the surveillance. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I think we’ve covered it. I think we’ve covered the whole nine yards here. Unless you got something else you want to say. Why? Hey, what was the complaint number? 97 11 75 10. Jim’s Obsession with a Guy
[42:08] That’s going to make it you’re obsessed. Jim, you’re obsessed with this guy. I wrote that complaint number on a lot of pieces of paper. Hey, Gary, I know Jim’s got to go, but can I tell you the story about how Jim kept a surveillance car for a year out of the garage? I’ve told this story a thousand times. I know how it goes. I’ll see you. Thank you. All right. See you, Jim. Thank you. So go ahead, Rick. We were in robbery and we had to get a surveillance car. And our captain was real skittish about letting us have our own surveillance car. Oh, my God. Yes. I remember those days. Oh, yeah. Back in the day, that was just horrible. Yeah, so so Jim and I go down and we get a surveillance time now We went to three of them in a year and a half, but we get our first one, And we’re driving it and and we you know, you’re supposed to sign it out for 30 days or whatever Well, we kept it. We’re driving to and from home. Well the car breaks down one night. I said Jim He goes I’m bringing it to the garage tomorrow morning. I go. No, you’re not and he goes. Yeah, I got to get it fixed I go you’re gonna bring it to the garage Sunday night and he goes what and I go. Yeah Jim when the car broke down for me I went on Sunday night too because guess what they give you another car and they don’t check. A Risky Move with a Hidden Car
[43:32] Just a lone guy, Just like hey go get that car, We had this we had this thing no matter what happens to belts party go back till Sunday night And then the captain found out we had kept the surveillance car on a 30-day thing for a year and a half, and we’ve been driving it the whole time. We got called in the office, holy smokes, did we get it on that one? But it was worth it because we had the car anytime we needed it, and we were running around all the time. You know how the PD and Gary, you know, they were so tight about those things, because they didn’t want anyone… Coordinating the case with the FBI
[44:24] Oh, that was good. That was pretty slick. It was good. We put our heads together to keep that. And you know, about after I got promoted out of robbery, I think I was 32nd on the sergeant’s list. So I leave before all this is unfolding, and that was really hard because I couldn’t stay with the case. Yeah, I had to go out south and and Jim really did a fantastic job of coordinating and keeping that going with the FBI and making the rest of the indictments and the rest of the players. Yeah, he did an outstanding job. Yeah, that one agent, Doug Fencl, was involved on the periphery of it. And he told me, yeah, I said that and Harrington, that detective, I think he couldn’t remember his name. He said that detective boy, he he stuck right in there. He said he was good. And he was talking about Herrington as he described him.
[45:22] Well, and Jim goes on, you know, to work Stevie Wright, who was another, you know, street level guy in Kansas City who had committed numerous murders and gotten away with all of them. No one, no one would testify. No one would say anything. And Jim again, partnered up with the FBI and, had another partner and he was on special assignment because of his success, I believe, on the Tivol case, they gave him the latitude again in the police department, which was unheard of, to pull him aside and give him carte blanche to work on Phoebe for a better part of a year, I think, year and a half maybe, and to get him federally indicted and put away and Jim did that too. So I mean, Jim Harrington has got to be one of the better detectives that have ever come through KCPD. Yeah, I believe it. I think I did that story with him. I did a story with him a long time ago. When I first started doing this, there was an article in the pitch or something, about this blood or this crib and this and this guy that got in the way with all these murders.
[46:27] And yeah, I did that. A lot of people really liked it. That show at the hashtag back. We’ll dig that out, maybe recut it and put some of the good parts back out. Whenever I release this one. Humorous anecdotes and podcast popularity
[46:38] Well, and then Jim goes on to, you know, when current criminals form, then Jim is one of the original detectives that goes into career criminal, again, based on, I think, all of his previous, you know.
[46:54] Expert, you know, detective work in these federal cases that he’s done a great job on. So then Jim is recruited. Actually, Jim, at the time, we were working together. I was a sergeant in homicide, he was a detective in homicide, side and that’s where he gets recruited out of there to be one of the founding members of the crew of criminal unit under Sergeant Eric Greenwell. Oh yeah, I remember that squad. That was a pretty good squad that yeah.
[47:21] It’s kind of towards the end of mine well, I just wanted to add that one piece of humor because I I think if if any KCPD members, you know We’re to watch this that they get a chuckle out of that one. You know that we we pulled one over on the department You know, they will they will they’ll see it There’s quite a few I had one guy a couple years ago Messaged me or something. He said yeah, I said Man, he said I I volunteered to ride the wagon last night so I could just listen to your podcast all night long.
[47:52] And I was down at the Royal Stadium once and I, I must have posted something on Facebook and some guy I didn’t know that had been a podcast fan saw that I was on my Facebook too and he was of course bored, he was looking at his Facebook and so he messaged me, he said, oh, he said, are you here at the ball game, I’m over at Gates so and so, so I go over and talk to him. There’s a lot of guys that listen to the podcast. Yeah, well, it’s kind of fun. This is a great great opportunity to you know, talk about some of the successes You know, yeah, I can remember Gary when we’re doing the sting with the jury We’re at the gym and I were at the local office and one of the supervisors brought up Braids of diamonds that FBI had really for stings and things like that I mean it was amazing different shape sizes They’re all they’re all these stones in there and I mean I you know I it was my first like exposure to the depth of the FBI and what FBI can really do when they put their mind to it. I mean, the resources and and like this gemologist that they had that was the undercover. I mean, you know, I don’t think like Jim said, if you went to a jewelry store anywhere in America and he was working the counter, you’d have no idea that that guy had more enforcement background and he was that good. Right.
[49:11] So they’ve got the resources. There’s No doubt about that. Right. So there was some things like that, that were really fun to get out to. Frustrations with other detectives and department politics
[49:20] Yeah, really? Geez. You know, Jim was the primary. He was the one who came up with Clarence Burnett. You know, I was, I was the only one, my, my original thing to this was Jim, we need to get the case because we can’t, the other detectives just weren’t doing shit and it really bothers me. Oh yeah. I know I’ve been there. Yes. Yes. and you’re like, hey, these people are, I mean, they hit the store on the Plaza. I mean, this was, this was like, you know, back in the day when the Plaza was something, you don’t walk on the Plaza in front of a store, not in the city of Missouri, right? Yeah, we got to get on this. And, you know, Jim and I felt like we should really jump into this. And every time we tried, it just, it was, it was another thing about, you know, how the department, as someone gets to sign a case and it’s their case and it’s your case, and so you’ll have to transfer that case. Yeah. Yeah, and the guy that had it, it didn’t have no, it probably had no imagination and it was going to be a lot of work.
[50:21] Right, exactly. So, you know, it just didn’t go anywhere. Yeah. But anyway, that’s about it. I can’t, I can’t remember. I mean, I can tell you that it was some of the best police work. And once we got in coordination with the FBI, I mean, here’s two detectives from Kansas City, Missouri, working on some things that are occurring in Dallas and this Plaza and all kinds of stuff. I mean, once we got into it and those FBI people really started to trust us, I mean, we were in, we were good as gold with them. Yeah, cool. Well guys, that was a heck of a story, wasn’t it? The kind of inside baseball, if you will, about running a robbery investigation on a big time robbery and having to work with the FBI.
[51:07] There’s always these different, you know, you read a lot about and you see it in the popular media, these brushes between jurisdictions and law enforcement agencies and all that. And that’s kind of really how it works. As long as you’re working hard and they’re working hard and nobody tries to hide anything and you work together and you let some people hide some stuff if they feel like they need to, don’t try to step out of your lane, it’ll all come together. And this all came together with Jim Harrington ended up, Rick got promoted and left, But Jim Harrington ended up really being integral with the prosecution of this all the way through, just like the other FBI agent that ended up getting assigned to it. Praise for Rick, the former chief of police
[51:50] I really admire both these guys. They’re great policemen. And like I said, Rick went on to be the chief of police during the worst time ever to be a chief of police around the George Floyd times and all those demonstrations, us and every city in the United States had. He had the newspapers after him and it was, you know, but he survived all that and he did it with grace and abilities and got on through and has since retired now. I remember Rick when he was a young patrol officer and a young Tac guy. So, but he’s a good guy. He’s been my friend on for 20 some years, 25 years, I guess.
[52:30] See, don’t forget, I like to ride motorcycles. And when you’re in your car out there, watch out for motorcycles. If you have a problem with PTSD and you’ve been in the service, I just saw a deal on the paper in the news this morning about PTSD and service members and different kinds of alternative therapies.
[52:47] At least get started with the VA and go to their website and get that hotline number. And there’s other therapies out there. These guys were going down in Mexico and doing some mushrooms and it seemed to be helping. So, what do I know? If you have a problem with drugs or alcohol, which often goes hand in hand with PTSD, whether you’re in the service or not, you can get help with that. Go to our friend, former Gambino soldier, although I’ve had people tell me that he wasn’t a soldier. I think he was. I think he was a made guy. But, you know, he was a legacy for sure. His dad was a made guy in the Gambino family, Anthony Ruggiano. And he’s a drug and alcohol counselor down in Florida. And on his website and his YouTube page, he’s got a hotline number so you can go into therapy or go into treatment, rather with a real deal mob guy being your drug and alcohol counselor. Wouldn’t that be cool? Let me know if you ever do that. So don’t forget to like and subscribe if you’re on YouTube. Give me a review, support the podcast in any way you can, share, share it with your friends. We need to grow and grow and grow, gotta come back at these mob guys that have their podcast, but we’ve got our own side and
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