Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. Today, we delve into the intriguing saga of Carl “Tuffy” DeLuna, a notable figure in the Kansas City organized crime milieu. Known as a formidable Underboss with ties to the Civella family, Carl DeLuna commanded respect and fear for his powerful and ruthless demeanor. Though born in Brooklyn, he made his mark in Kansas City, engaging in various criminal activities ranging from armed robberies to overseeing a highly profitable skim operation that yielded substantial profits for the mob. DeLuna’s ascent to prominence involved close ties to influential mobsters such as Nick Civella, and he played a key role in crucial decisions affecting the mob’s operations. Tuffy’s presence was integral to the mob’s functioning, from enforcing discipline to managing sportsbook operations and ensuring the smooth running of illegal enterprises. His counsel was sought in pivotal discussions and actions, underscoring his role as a trusted advisor and enforcer. The dynamic between Tuffy DeLuna and Nick Civella sheds light on their relationship and how Tuffy’s advice influenced critical decisions. His involvement in maintaining discipline and resolving internal conflicts within the mob highlighted his importance as Nick Civella’s right-hand man. Tuffy’s ability to manage various aspects of organized crime made him a valuable asset to the underworld. Tuffy’s narrative also explores his clash with the Spero brothers and the ensuing violent confrontations that shook the Kansas City mob scene. The complex web of alliances, betrayals, and power struggles exemplified the volatile nature of organized crime and the deadly consequences those involved face. Tuffy’s role in orchestrating and executing violent acts to retain control over the criminal empire showcased his unwavering commitment to the Civella Family’s interests. When the Government finally arrested and convicted DeLuna, it marked the end of an era for the Kansas City mob. His enduring legacy as a powerful and influential figure in organized crime speaks to the intricate world of mob operations and the individuals who navigated its perilous waters. The compelling narrative of Carl “Tuffy” DeLuna’s life provides insight into the complex workings of organized crime, highlighting the power struggles, alliances, and betrayals that shaped the criminal underworld in Kansas City. Tuffy’s legacy as a formidable figure in the mob world and his lasting impact on the Kansas City crime scene solidify his place in the annals of organized crime history. Support the Podcast Subscribe to get new gangster stories every week.

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Transcript [0:00] Introduction [0:00]Hey guys, welcome to the studio of Gangland Wire back here in cold old Kansas City. But I’ve got a story for you today. I’ve been kind of remiss in a way, not really paying that much attention to Kansas City. I need to start doing these. I had somebody on YouTube, I think, he said, why don’t you do some short bios of all your Kansas City, your main guys. [0:22]And so I’m starting to do that. This is going to be the first one, I don’t know if it’ll be the first one up. But anyhow carl angelo tuffy de luna he was such an interesting guy and he figured so big he was the arty pescano character in the movie and scorsese movie casino he was famous for keeping the notes and the whole nine yards so and he has a great name tuffy he’s born in 1927 give you an a idea of how old he was and he was an organized crime figure who was really once a really really powerful underboss here in Kansas City and recognized really nationwide because of his connection to Nick Civella. And he was also the brother-in-law to Kansas City crime boss Anthony Tony Ripe Civella. His sister Molly had married Tony Ripe. And Tony Ripe Civella was the nephew, Nick Civella, and the son of Carl Cork Civella. So he had those blood ties, you know, Nick Civella and the Civellas, they kept things close. If you weren’t in this inner group that they took in and knew a lot about you were you know you were not going to get anything going with them and and so time tuffy he had a native intelligence he was a bright guy he could he could be personable he had a you know could do things with a velvet glove but he had a mailed or an iron fist on the inside of that velvet glove the only thing was amount to this wild ground breaks down on Lefty. [1:51]Lesley and Bob Brown both got a criminal suit for rap. If Bob Brown got any time to lay with the commission and all the authorities, [2:03] Super Bowl Bets [1:59]they’re taking the attitude who we didn’t pull no fucking roll for our eyes. Bob Brown was Lefty’s industry. We can’t prove it, but he was. [2:10]Tuffy was born in Brooklyn. He wasn’t born in Kansas City. Most of these Civellas, except for Nick, I think, might have been born in Chicago. They were born in Kansas City. But Tuffy was born in Brooklyn and moved to Kansas City as a young man. I don’t know much about his life before that. But his parents must have brought him here because he had extended family. He had a brother, Frank Deluna, who was a Kansas City guy, moved to New Orleans or moved to Shreveport, actually, and spent a lot of his adult life there. I never knew much about him. He’s moved back and he’s here in Kansas City now. But Tuffy’s who we’re talking about. And as he came up, he was an armed robber. He was a traveling armed robber. It was back in the 50s, 60s when he was a young man come of age and needed to make money. [2:55]A lot of these guys had robbery crews and they were traveling around the country robbing grocery stores. One time the FBI in the early 60s followed him and were on him and they started going west and he went to Denver. And he met with a guy who was connected to the Small Dome family, who was one of those kind of armed robbers. And then they followed them up to Seattle and they lost them up there, I believe, but they didn’t go any further than that, but that’s what they were doing. They’re traveling around to different grocery stores. I know for a fact, because I know this from a guy, the word was, you don’t eat where you should. You do not do these robberies in Kansas City. And so they were going to other parts of the country. [3:42]And if you think about it, those robberies of supermarkets, if you’re of a certain age, at my age, they were your ATM. They had the cash money. When you got paid on Friday or Saturday, many times you would just take your paycheck to the supermarket and cash it. Or if you put it in the bank, then you would write a check for groceries and then you’d get $20, $30 cash back. Or you just go in and write a check for cash. That was the ATM of those times. He was just, you know, a guy that was thoughtful and was part of one of these crews. And we know a little about one of these crews because his buddy, his cousin, Sam Palma, got caught. And he was a contemporary. He just toughy, may have gone along in this and just didn’t get caught. I don’t know for sure, but I got a feeling he was just in the background on this one. But what happened, they went to Houston. Houston, and another guy named Beans Inzarella. We know for sure a fact he did because he caught a case out of it. And Sam Palma, Tuffy’s cousin, he’ll catch a case out of it. They go to Houston, they rob a supermarket down there, and they’ve got guns, and somebody’s gun goes off and shoots one of the employees in the foot. I couldn’t tell whether it was because they weren’t doing what they wanted to do. I think it was an accidental discharge. There’s a gang that couldn’t shoot shoot straight here. Anyhow, they shoot somebody in the foot and they, you know, the deal is don’t shoot anybody. You know, that’s bad. [5:11]You know, it just brings down heat, but they did. And so part of their scheme was they would mail the guns and the money back to Kansas City. They didn’t carry it back and then they would fly back or rent a car and drive back or get somebody to come and get them, whatever. They would get back different ways. They wanted to be really secretive on how they got in and out of these cities and they didn’t want to be traced back to Kansas City. Thank you. Then you could maybe figure out kind of who they might be and get pictures or, you know, maybe fingerprints. [5:40]And so they were doing this for quite a while. Several guys in Kansas City were doing this. I knew one. It ended up being a heroin act when in recovery. And he told me about doing this. And he was kind of loosely connected to the mafia. He was too much of a wild card. They couldn’t really do business with Bill. But anyhow, that is in May. When they packaged it up, they sent it back to the name of a guy they knew who was a taxi driver in Kansas City. And on the path back, the package broke open. The defense was that the cops found out about it and tore it open. I talked to one of them, an FBI agent who was around during this time. He was a real young agent. And he said, to the best of his knowledge, nobody tore that open. It truly did break open. Broke open. But when they got to Kansas City, they, you know, they had the address and the name and who it was supposed to go to. [6:38] Murder of Sam Palma [6:33]But I think it was like a will call. The person was going to come to the post office and pick it up. The FBI and the postal inspectors put a surveillance on the postal post station there. [6:47]And so they’re watching and they see this Beans Ziarella show up. They see Sam Palmer show up. They see this guy in a taxi come in. And so that’s whose name it’s in. So he starts to go in, they’re talking, and he’s scared. It’s obvious he’s scared, and they’re talking. And he, like, goes up, and he turns around and comes back. And you could tell, the officers could tell they were really getting frustrated with him. And finally, I think this Beans Ziarella the one. He went up and got the package, and then the Bureau swooped in. They got Palma and Beans Ziarella and the taxi driver. And he admitted pretty quick that, you know, they just asked me to go get this package. I don’t know what’s in it. And they got them with the package and then, you know, basically the evidence out of this robbery and they make them on it months later. [7:34]Sam Palma, he’s like nervous and worried about going to jail. He’s not really spent any time in jail. He’s ran a joint down on Broadway. I think maybe his was the Pancake Patio. I’m not sure. Anyhow, he’s not really spent much time in the penitentiary, if any at all. [7:52]And he’s talking to his cousin, Taffy DeLuna, and word’s getting around. He’s made some phone calls to other relatives, and he does not want to do this jail. jail. And the night before he’s going down to be sentenced, a guy, two guys from our intelligence unit, Kansas City intelligence unit, and I knew one of them, Ray Kinney and his partner, Jimmy Doolin, were just driving around. You just drive around, troll different spots. And they happened to look into a cat’s drugstore at the time. We had the big drugstores that were called cats. And they have every drugstore had a soda fountain in it. And they look in and there’s Tuffy DeLuna and his cousin, Sam Palmer, says they’re having coffee. Well, everything looks copacetic. There’s no reason to do anything. And they just go on. It’s late at night. They just go on home after the shift ends. And the next day, somebody calls the dispatcher, and they find a body on the grave of Sam Palme’s father. And it was Sam Palma. And he’s been shot in the head. He’s been shot a couple of times and there’s a there’s a note out there that indicates this was a suicide, and during this time somebody else finds his car he had a 58 chevrolet i never forget that because my mom we had one of my first cars i ever drove was a 58 chevrolet a 58 chevrolet and it was parked more closer quite a ways away one walking distance to the cemetery they find blood in it and they find a witness that then later at some other place said that they saw two men trying to stuff something inside that car that could have been a body. [9:20] Tuffy’s Rise to Underboss [9:21]So the supposition is somebody killed Sam Palma stuffed his body in his car took him out dumped him off for his graveside left the suicide note left the gun there and then drove the car back and left it this other place the family today would swear that it it was a suicide everybody in that world would swear it’s a suicide i really don’t think it was there was like a couple other mob guys were bragging around how they were helped move the body at night but nobody could ever really prove anything those were just informant word the informants were saying that that these guys were saying that they helped move that body that night so somebody moved that body that night that’s for sure nick savella will promote tuffy to the underboss sometime he might have made his bones that night he may have already made him i’m not sure but he definitely gets promoted to underboss sometime after this around this time after tom almost highway simone dies in 68 i I believe, or 69. He died not too long after that. And he was the old underboss and went all the way back to the, really to the 50s and 40s with Nick Civella. [10:30]Tuffy really was Nick Civella’s Swiss Army knife for everything. He was his counselor, his consigliere, if you will. He didn’t really have anybody else that was in that advisory capacity. He had his brother, Cork Civella, but Cork Civella was, He was crude and rude and loud and flamboyant and not thoughtful at all. He would try to kill a fly with a sledgehammer. And Nick Savella used a scalpel on everything he did. And Tuffy was his Swiss Army knife. He was his scalpel. He appointed him to be the in-between guy for most all the action that was going on. And like the sports book, had a guy named Frank Tusa who worked out of the social club, the Northview Social Club, what we called The Trap. And Frank Tusa only talked to Tuffy, and then Tuffy would carry information back to Nick if there was anything Nick needed to know about the book and what was going on. That’s where Nick made a mistake. One of the few mistakes he made cost him, 1970. [11:32]He was worried about the Super Bowl bets. The books were not in balance. You know, a bookie doesn’t gamble. He takes an equal amount of bets on both sides. Well, here in Kansas City, the Chiefs are playing the Vikings, Vikings and there was just a ton of action going down on the Chiefs. Frank Tusa is worried about it and that gets back to Nick and Nick calls him on the phone. Well, they got a bug on that phone and he’s worried to Nick and Nick said, well, you have to lay off. What do you think? And so Nick was really, he was taking like a managerial interest and that’s, they convicted him of taking this managerial interest in this bookmaking scheme. Just a few hours before the Kansas City Chiefs would face the Minnesota Vikings in the Super Bowl, Nick Civella placed a call to the tapped payphone inside the trap. He spoke with gambler Frank Tusa, who was accepting bets called in by bookies. The Chiefs were a 12-point underdog heading into the game, and yet the betting heavily favored the Chiefs. The action on Kansas City was so lopsided, so many people were betting on Kansas City to win, that Frank Tousa became concerned. Hey, we’re going to really take a bath if Kansas City wins here. Nick wanted to know just how bad, so he called Frank Tusa up at the trap. [12:52]Hello? Hello, how are you? Fine, how are you? Okay, how’d you finish for today? How’d you set? 43. What do you mean? That’s how we stand. You mean? 4-7-3-6-0 Oh, God. You mean you’re… 4-7-3-6-0, hi. [13:15]Oh, shit. Where’s all this from? Right here. I guess there ain’t much you can do about it. Okay, I’ll let you go. All right. All right. And because of that conversation, we were able to tie Nick as the overall manager of the Kansas City gambling operations, and he was ultimately convicted of that. Nobody testified, but it was strictly from the telephone. phone. Actually, there was an attempted murder and a murder of people who could have testified about Nick Savelle in that. One of the key witnesses in the case was Saul Landy, who made book as a sideline. In November 1970, several men invaded Landy’s home on pretense of robbery. They killed Landy. They were quickly apprehended and connected to John Johnny Frank’s Francovelia. Local prosecutor Joe Teasdale averred that the young black men arrested were pawns of organized crime, that it was no coincidence Johnny Franks was a career criminal associate of Nick Civella. [14:19]Nick, of course, denied any connection. Famous mob lawyer and mayor of Las Vegas, Oscar Goodman, was one of several lawyers who defended Nick on appeal of the gambling conviction and helped keep him out of jail for seven years. Nick kept the KC Mafia family relatively small, and like the mob in Chicago during the 1970s, it was now being called the Outfit. Nick Civella’s innermost circle consisted of his family, his brother Cork, his nephew Tony Ripe, and Carl Tuffy DeLuna. Tuffy, who grew up on the north side streets of Kansas City, was very much the muscle for the Civella family. Tuffy was sort of a mix between Nick Civella and Corky Civella. He was Nick’s right-hand guy. He was Nick’s principal enforcer. I would call him probably Nick’s real underboss, even though Corky was believed to occupy that position. I think of all of those guys, Tuffy was probably the guy that was being groomed to take Nick’s place. The Camisano faction of the family, headed by the notorious Willie the Rat Camisano, oversaw fencing of stolen goods. [15:26]Notwithstanding the cloud of conviction hovering over Nick Civella, the 1970s would prove to be the zenith of organized crime in Kansas City. During this time, the Spiro brothers, Nick, Carl, Mike, and Joe Spiro, S-P-E-R-O, just like Anthony Spiro in New York, they were kind of like young Turks near the wells in that world, if you will, kind of the blue collar guys of associates of the mob. But Mike Spiro was in In the Teamsters, he had a Teamsters position, a business agent or something like that, one of the locals. His older brother, Nick, was well known, as well as Mike, to be able to get people jobs on the docks and in the truck lines through their Teamster connections. And the Spirals were wanting more Teamster connections, and Nick Savella really was not bringing them in to do anything more. [16:22]And they wanted, like the younger brother, Carl, was really a professional criminal and had a crew. And he didn’t want to have to pay tribute to the Sabellas. He wanted more action himself. They may have known about the scam from Las Vegas, which was just starting. I don’t know. They may have wanted a piece of that. Nick Sparrow, the oldest brother, gets found dead in his trunk. Carl Sparrow was in jail at the time on a jewelry robbery, I think. And it comes out shortly after and gets with these two brothers, Joe and Mike, and they are going after the Civella’s. Civellas find out about this through a series of events. Carl Spero has gotten a guy out of jail. [17:03] Assassination Attempts on Tuffy [17:03]Parole off you know had him kind of a no-show job nick now carl spiro’s cousin scratch koozie, has a meat market so he claims that he’s working for koozie’s meat market he’s not working somebody at a savella run meat market a guy who’s a bookie named al brandemeyer walks out one night with a bunch of cows because he’s also doing book making activities in that meat market it walks out and a guy shows up and puts two guns on him and puts him in his trunk takes his money and then shoots a bunch of rounds into the trunk and starts yelling you know hey you tell nick sabella the arabs in town well this leonard crego was the guy that carl spiro got out of jail, almost did a no-show job and his name was leonard crego and they called him the arab so it’s he goes back to jail pretty quick because he was a loose cannon he was trying to rob a drug dealer and the police caught him in the act but you know kind of the words out they the savellas have picked up another guy and tortured him when they found his body he’s had marks of cigarette burns and stuff on him and he probably had spilled all the beans that carl spiro was wanting to move on the savellas and and move in on them and and nick’s nick sparrow nick savella is in jail for that old 1970 gambling conviction finally this is 77 i think finally all he exhausted all of these peels because he took it all the way as far as he could all the delays he could. [18:32]He’s about ready to get out of the penitentiary and he sends a message back to through cork that i want all unfinished business taken care of when i’ll get back and that means there’s some murders out there and that means take care of these sparrows there’s two murders that don’t seem to be related that happened real quick and then in april that year 1977 or 78 the remaining three three Spiro brothers, next to the oldest one, he’s been killed. The remaining three Spiro brothers are in a tavern, their favorite tavern, their hangout, their meeting place called the Virginia Tavern. And three guys appear in the back door. Two of them spin off to the left where Mike and Joe Spiro are sitting and just start shooting at them. And they go down. Carl Spiro is over by the front door, directly across from the back door. And he’s on the telephone and And he sees what’s happening and he boogies out the front door down the street and a guy, masked guy with a shotgun, 12 gauge pump action shotgun, goes busting out the front door and chugging down the street with a shotgun and finally stops and takes aim and pops Carl Sparrow in the back. He goes down. He’s going to be a paraplegic the rest of his life. He never slowed down being a criminal, but he did to do it in a wheelchair. chair. [19:47]Mike is dead. The one who actually was a teamsters and they wanted to get a better teamsters job for him. But Nick Sabella chose somebody else. He’s dead and Joe’s been wounded. So Joe and Carl now start plotting because they’ve got information that Tuffy DeLuna was a guy with the shotgun that day. And Tuffy DeLuna is the guy who led this team and he was the underboss. And the people that went with him, they’ve got the names of them, Joe Ragusa and Charlie Mortina, because Joe Sparrow Groves eventually going to leave a letter after he dies on who was in that team. [20:20]They go after Tuffy because he was the leader of the team. He’s the most important guy. He’s the biggest threat. They go after him big time with sniper rifle. First of all, Joe gets hides over by his house and his Tuffy walks in from parking on the street. He walks in. He takes a shot at him with a deer rifle, misses him. I think he was drunk that night. Anyhow, misses him. And we sent a couple of detectives over. They had an informant that was close to Joe Spiro at the time, and he told them about it. They sent two detectives over, and he denied that it happened. And they said, well, what about that hole out there in your siding there? And he said, I don’t know. That must have been there a long time. [21:00]Continue on this plan to kill Tuffy DeLuna. It’s kill Tuffy DeLuna with Joe Spero. Carl Sparrow gets dynamite from one guy. He gets a remote-controlled detonating device from another guy. And Carl Sparrow, Joe Spero, then gets it from Carl, and he puts it together, and he has a couple of peckerwoods working for him, and one of them’s a police informant. He was informing about this bomb thing that they’re building, and and and he didn’t inform it in time because one night joe sparrow catches toughy out in front of this the famous villa capri where toughy will will be found talking about you know the skim and everything catches his car out front on the street slip the bomb underneath it and then stand back about a half a block and when toughy goes out and gets in the car to drive off he hits the button and it doesn’t go and just drive off. And Joe sent one of his guys, Conrad Metz. He made him walk up and get that sack with the bomb in it. He brings it back. [22:03]Okay, Tuffy gets away. They’re still after Tuffy big time. But we’ve got that informant inside that little crew. And so we arrest Joe and this Conrad Metz. And the informant was the third one. [22:18] Final Retribution on Spiro Brothers [22:15]And they can’t make Carl. So Carl’s still out there. He’s still a threat. he’s uh he’s done by this he’s starting to start a used car lot and joe will get convicted mets will get convicted mets will go to jail joe will be out on the peel and he’ll walk into a storage facility where he has more dynamite stored and guns and things like that as he goes in the storage facility it blows up some savella guys will swear that they blew it up other people just say it was It was an accidental detonation of the dynamite he already had. Anyhow, Joe’s dead, so it only leaves Carl. And eventually they’ll get him. They’ll make an effort and put a big, like 29 sticks of dynamite underneath his car with a mercury switch out at his house. And his nephew finds that before he gets in the car. Then they put one at this used car shack where he was supposedly selling used cars. He never sold any cars. He was just fencing and selling drugs and guns and things like that. But that explosion in that used car lot will blow him and his wheelchair clear up through the roof and dump him out in the parking lot. Tuffy DeLuna would have been behind all that. He would have been the guy that hired whoever did that. He probably was even there close by to make sure it happened. [23:30]He was just that kind of guy. And, of course, as I mentioned about this Villa Capri from the famous casino movie where they pan up and they show that microphone in a corner store. Well, it wasn’t in a corner store. or was in this bill at the free and Tuffy is sitting there talking to court, Nick’s brother about different things in Las Vegas, about the team shares about $25 million. They say something about a win on that with them and Tuffy’s, you know, finally Tuffy says, we’ve got to find the phone. And then we started following Tuffy and he’s a hard one to follow, man. He is tough. He would stop and look out, see if there’s an airplane out there. And the Bureau had brought in about 10 more guys, About six guys from the intelligence unit gave us radios with them, and we all had select cars, and they had two airplanes, so one could be up at all times if one started running out of gas. If you remember, the famous FBI plane ran out of gas, had to land in the Las Vegas Country Club golf course. We don’t want that, so we got two planes ready to go. [24:32]One gets low and they’re still moving. They bring the other one up and finally find him at a bank of pay phones in a kind of a hotel, an obscure kind of industrial area that would be right next to I-435. [24:46] Secret Phone Conversations [24:46]And so they find a bank of pay phones and follow him there and get on them. And he’s talking to Joe Gosco all the time about what’s going on in Las Vegas, talking about sending money back. They call them sandwiches from the trop, the tropicana, Canada, talking about what’s going on with Lefty and over at the Stardust. And they were talking about the Kansas City mob wanted to get a package together. [25:12]Get some investors that they would then back and help set up with a Teamsters loan and buy out Alan Glick. See, Tuffy had been the guy. Like I said, it wasn’t Chicago. It wasn’t Milwaukee. It wasn’t Cleveland. It was Kansas City that told Alan Glick he had to sell the Stardust and those other three casinos that he had, the Stardust, the Haas Inn and the Fremont, and get out of the business because he wasn’t getting on with Lefty. And they’d already told him, you know, you got to do what Lefty tells you to do. They had brought Glick back earlier and talked to Nick and Nick told him, you got to do what Lefty wants you to do. And that’s when Nick or Alan Glegg told Lefty, I mean, told Nick Civella and Tuffy Luna sitting there that, you know, hey, no, Frank Balistrieri said this and Frank Balistrieri said that. And he testified to this. And Nick Civella turned to Tuffy Luna and said, you know, well, Fancy Pants thinks he can do something here. He said, you need to get on up there. And Tuffy said, yeah, I’ll do that. But see, Tuffy was the guy. Tuffy had been to Chicago and met with Iupa. And he was the guy that went around and did all these kinds of things for Nick because Nick stayed in the background. It was kind of like Tony Accardo with his upfront bosses. [26:36]And so Tuffy then was sent out to see Alan Glick and say, you know, you’ve got to sell the Stardust. You’re not doing what we want you to do. And he’s in Oscar Goodman’s office sitting behind the desk the way Alan Glick described it. He left. He tells him, you know, go to go to Oscar Goodman’s office. Somebody needs to see it. So he goes over there, goes in Oscar’s office. There’s Tuffy Luna sitting there. Tuffy’s got his feet up on the desk, supposedly. Tuffy says, hey, you know, you got to do whatever, make a public announcement, do whatever you got to do and sell this casino. [27:12]And Alan Glick kind of like, well, you know, I’m not quite ready to do that. I don’t want to do that. And Tuffy said, I’ll tell you what, he said, you may find your life expendable, but you won’t find the lives of your children expendable. And then named off his wife and kids off a piece of paper he had there. And that was enough for Alan Glick. Glick, he did make a public announcement and started trying to sell the casino pretty quick, Stardust and all of them. And he did try to sell it. They sold it to another mob-controlled guy named Al Saxon and something, Tabman, Michael or something, Tabman. I don’t remember exactly, but sold it to another mob-connected guy. It would be Kansas City’s job to go out and tell Glick he was done. Not Milwaukee, not Chicago, not Cleveland, Kansas City. On one occasion, Frank Rosenthal approached Glick and he said, I want you to meet a guy. [28:12]And so they went over to Oscar Goodman’s office, and Oscar was not there. Oscar, of course, was the attorney. And when they walked into the office, Tuffy DeLuna was sitting behind Oscar’s desk with his feet up on the desk. Mr. DeLuna’s demeanor is very vulgar. course and he used many profanities. He said that he and his partners are sick and having to deal with me. He informed me that it was their desire to have me sell the Argent Corporation immediately and to announce the sale as soon as possible. He said that in the event I didn’t take his threat seriously that I might find my life expendable and he went on to. [28:46]Music. [28:51]And gave me the names and ages of each of my kids. [29:09]Within the next few weeks, Alan Glick would make a public announcement that he was selling the Argent Corporation. operation? Lefty, I mean, Nick was talking to Tuffy at this time. Besides that little operation of telling him he had to sell to put together a package to buy the Stardust for Kansas City. And he even set up a meeting with Joy Iupa to discuss that. Now, Iupa never did go for it. Iupa was the big duck. You see, the thing about Nick Civella, this is more about Nick than Tuffy, but Nick Civella, he always, he got this skim 40 grand a month from the Tropicana. He would send a piece of that to Joey Aiuppa. He didn’t have to because Chicago did not help Nick infiltrate the Tropicana. There’s no teamsters loan involved, nothing. Chicago had nothing to do with it. But Tuffy Luna was this guy through all this. He was, you know, when we served the search warrant, finally, and it was St. Valentine’s Day, 80, I think, and served these search warrants. And I I was at Tuffy’s house, a really nice guy to talk to. You wouldn’t want him after you. I know I was, he like, we almost caught him and a couple other guys fighting. [30:22]Hitting Carl Spiro just accidentally, almost caught him. And we drove in and we saw him driving around, driving around this bar. We got in closer. Now I looked in my rearview mirror and they were behind me and they just kind of started following along behind me. I think they were suspicious who I was. And I got to a stoplight a few blocks away and I’m sitting there in the straight go ahead lane and they’re in the left turn lane. And when the light turned, I just kind of glanced over and there’s Tuffy look just staring at me. And he kind of gives me half a grin and they take a left and they’re gone. They’re gone. And he had not really seen me before. But, you know, I’m like a 35, 38 something white guy, you know, dressed with, you know, decently and half, you know, just kind of a middle of the road salesman kind of car. But in that neighborhood, I did not fit. Me, Tuffy, personally then in search warranties house. And he was very personal. He even joked with this one agent. He had caught him trying to put a beeper up underneath his car because they found the beeper. So they were joking about Tuffy said, yeah, he said, I almost caught you, didn’t I? He said, yeah, you did. I guess he chased him down the street. But Tuffy had an alarm on his car that would send a signal to a beeper that would just buzz if somebody jostled his car. So he ran out there in the middle of the night and almost caught this agent with the car. That was the second time. He didn’t know about the other time. He almost caught somebody up underneath his car. or some other agent saw it and warned the guy off, and they got out of there. [31:48]Finally, I’ll never forget, we had this FBI agent who was in charge of Tuffy’s house. [31:53]And by this time, it’s getting late at night. It’s like 2 o’clock in the morning. We’ve been there since 8. And his kid had gotten all mad. His kid, he had a teenage, upper-teen boy who had come home in the middle of this, and he was mad. And, as a matter of fact, I remember Tuffy told his wife, said, Sandy, he said, call somebody. He even gave him a name and had him come and get Rick. So pretty soon a young guy shows up and takes Rick off. And he’s telling Sandy’s wife, said, you know, just make some coffee with these officers. You know home gonna be cool finally tells shay area this old-time fbi agent been working a mob since the 50s he said shay said you might as well go down to the basement here that’s where all the good stuff is and that’s where they found the notes and he did keep notes he kept you know like he was worried about the money he was spending going out there so he had a note about 160 airfare for him 160 airfare for his wife so much for the hotel room how much he spent for the hotel room But he also had like the breakdown of the skim on in Kansas City, had these guys names that were mob guys like Tiger and Dude and Tommy and who else? [33:00]Felix and these different guys. And we knew were the old school made guys. And they all had a percentage of the skim that was coming back from the trop. Now, I don’t know if the skim that was coming down from Chicago that came out of the Stardust. I don’t know who got what, but this was about the Tropicana and the skim coming out of that. And a lot of other notes in there about meetings they had, talking about meeting 22 and talking to 22. And somehow they figured out 22 was Iupa in Chicago. [33:30]And I think 23 was Jackie Cerrone. But anyhow, they put all that together and made the cases. And Tuffy goes to jail in, I think, 1988. He gets about 20 years. And when he comes out, he’s really pretty old. [33:51] Tuffy’s Death in 2008 [33:47]Things have moved on quite a little bit. He comes out in 1998. He died in Kansas City in 2008. One last little personal story about Tuffy the Loon. I saw a little article in the paper after he’d been back a short period of time. I didn’t know he was out. I’m off. I’m out of the intelligence unit. I’m off doing other things. And said that he was banned from local casinos after they caught him in there. So I guess somebody recognized he was in there playing blackjack or poker, probably, because he wouldn’t be playing the slot machines. He’s a big card player. A friend of mine back home once went to a big gin rummy tournament, and he ended up playing across the table from Tuffy DeLuna. He remembered it because Tuffy, when it came his turn to deal, he’d always, like, try to pass on the deal. And finally, this guy, he didn’t know Tuffy from baloney, you know. I’m not going to do it. You need to deal. your turn. He said, Oh, okay, so he did. Then he founds out later some guy gets him aside and says, you know who that was you confronted about that dealing thing? He said, I don’t know. He said, Tuffy DeLuna. He said, well, who’s Tuffy DeLuna? This guy didn’t know. [34:54]But Tuffy could not gamble at the casino after they caught him in there. I think I said to him, he ends up dying in 2008. So that’s kind of an overview of Carl Tuffy DeLuna because of Nick Pelleggi and his book Casino and the Movie. [35:13]Artie Piscano, you know, he’s like one of the more famous mobsters and supposedly a bumbling mobster, but he really wasn’t. He wasn’t a bumbler at all. He was a very dangerous guy. He’s a very smooth guy. [35:24]He took care of business. He [35:31] Tuffy as Consigliere [35:26]never talked out of school except on these phones and maybe in Nixabella. Now, actually, the house that Nixabella chose, it was a cool location, but because they were already on these other phones, they bugged that meeting that really really laid the skim out and and he wasn’t really talking out of school over at the Villa Capri it was really like in general but when we found those secret phones we were able to follow him and find those secret phones that pay phones in a hotel with a bank up they’d use a different one every time and even then they’d change out to different phones but you were so on time by then his patterns it was easy to get onto those next phones why uh you know it all came down and but next sabella and erica caught him talking to tuffy a lot and probably could have convicted him off that conversation because he talked in the lawyer’s office and we got bugs in the lawyer’s office and that’s when i found out that tuffy listened to those conversations tuffy was a real counselor and consigliere to nick savella nick would bounce things off him what do you think about this what do you think about that remember for example one time he said something could i If I call, Nick wanted to know, do you think I could call Lefty Rosenthal directly? Because we’ve got to get him to cool down. He’s got to cool down. [36:44]Well, if Lefty was to get a fucking phone call from somebody, it might tone him down, even if he has a press conference. Fine. I tried to rationalize my own position by calling him. I’m sure that I’ve been told more than once right now, anytime you want to, sure, of course you can call us, you know, the day you want, you know, you’ve got a right to, you know, and I said, well, gee, you couldn’t have given us a call, you know, courtesy of a call. [37:23]If you wanted to call it, Nick, I don’t see a fucking thing going on with it. And they did tell you that. They told you that before. I thought I was already probably. Tuffy said, well, I think you can. He said, we had a meeting about that. And I remember that. And he referred to some meeting in Chicago. And in the end, he did call Lefty Direct and told Lefty he needs to cool it. And so he’s telling, again, running this by Tuffy. And, you know, what do you think? And he said, you know, he said, he might lie to you. So it was just a real interesting, real deal mafia underboss that, [38:05] Tuffy’s Role as Underboss [38:02]again, he was Nick Sabella’s Swiss Army knife. He took care of everything on the streets, whether it be killing somebody, enforcing somebody, you know, making sure that the sports book was running good, all that, all those kinds of things. He never took care of swag. Swag, every of the people did the swag business. And that was Willie Calasano. That’s a whole other story there. Willie Calasano, Willie the Rat. So thanks a lot, guys. I really appreciate y’all listening. Don’t forget, I like to ride motorcycles. So if you’re out on the street in your car, watch out for motorcycles. If you have a problem with PTSD and you’ve been in the service, go to the VA website and get that hotline number. Hand in hand with PTSD and is drug and alcohol addiction with depression. [38:44]Drug and alcohol addiction. You know go to angelo rugiano he has his own youtube and website and everything he has a hotline number on there he’s a drug and alcohol counselor former gambino soldier down in florida drug and alcohol counselor go see him let me know about it if you do it’d be interesting good story if you have a desire to get on facebook if you’re on facebook i want you to come to the gangland wire podcast group well we’ve got 50 000 people there’s tons of good pictures and like interesting comments from people who grew up in the neighborhood or or new people and not really some of them are mobsters i’m promising that they don’t ever say they are but you can just tell by the way they talk and i know i’ve got one guy who’s actually came over from sicily and was involved with joe massino and [39:40] Connect with Gangland Wire Podcast Group [39:35]sal batali in that section of the banana family and i’ve interviewed him. If I haven’t put it out by now, I will eventually. He’s on there a lot and can answer questions about that. [39:47]And so it’s just a lot of fun. So don’t forget to like and subscribe. If you’re on Facebook, give me a review. If you’re on the audio podcast app, and don’t forget, I’ve got the movies out there, Gangland Wire about the skim, Brothers Against Brothers about the Sabella-Spiral War on YouTube for only about 99. I got my book, Leaving Vegas. I think the The audio on that, you can click on the audio on the links to the transcripts and hear the actual wiretap audios on that.

The post Underboss: The Untold Story of Carl DeLuna in the Mob appeared first on Gangland Wire.

In this episode, we delve into a fascinating tale from the 1950s in Blue Island, Chicago, where Alfred Konecki, the president of F.W. Konecki & Sons Company, a tobacco distribution business, encountered suspicious activity involving a truck from Unity Refrigeration following their delivery vehicles. Two detectives, Bernard Kennedy and George Hanecki, were assigned to investigate the situation, setting up surveillance and observing a complex series of vehicles tailing each other.

The detectives uncovered that the Unity Refrigeration Truck was being followed by a car driven by Robert Bradshaw, a salesman for the Kodaki Company, who claimed he was trailing the Unity truck due to suspicions about its activities. Upon halting the vehicles, the officers discovered familiar faces inside the Unity truck – Chicago Outfit Associate Frank Schweihs, Stanley Bajic and Sam Ciancio, armed with .38 caliber revolvers and a police scanner tuned to Chicago PD frequencies.

Despite the lack of a solid case against them, the officers interrogated the trio, sending a clear message regarding their monitoring of criminal activities. This incident highlights the organized crime presence in Chicago during that era and the tactics employed to protect businesses from theft and extortion. The narrative offers a glimpse into the early days of Frank Schweihs, who would later play a significant role in criminal activities, including extorting money from establishments.

The story underscores the challenges businesses face dealing with criminal interference and the intricate dynamics of law enforcement and organized crime in Chicago in the 1950s. It provides a window into a bygone era where local authorities often struggled to combat such activities, leaving individuals to navigate complex relationships with criminal elements. The intricacies of mob involvement in businesses and the strategies employed to mitigate threats offer a compelling perspective on the historical landscape of organized crime in major cities like Chicago.

Transcript

Introduction [0:00]So, wiretappers, we’re going to go to the little town, our little community of Blue Island in southwest Chicago. It’s down by, it’s north of Chicago Heights, a little bit west and north of Calumet City, south and west of downtown, like I said, right off of, looks like I-57. We’re going to look in at 131-36 Southwestern Avenue in Blue Island. Will find Alfred Konecki. He was the president of F.W. Konecki & Sons Company, which was a tobacco distribution company. They would take packages, you know, cartons and cases of cigarettes around for distribution to different places. A couple of his drivers reported that they had noticed a truck. [0:46]Kind of a van kind of a truck, marked Unity Refrigeration had been following their delivery vehicles around. [0:52]And they’d looked out, and that truck was parked near the Konecki garage at that time. So Mr. Konecki calls Chicago PD, and they assign a couple of detectives to come out and investigate. Detective Bernard Kennedy and George Hanecki, kind of a close name to Konecki, [1:12] Surveillance Operation [1:09]but I guess another one of those big, long German names. After the detectives respond, they set up a surveillance down the street, and they must have called Mr. Konecki by phone and let him know that they were set, because he then dispatched one of the trucks. One of his employees, an Elmer Jepson, left. As soon as Mr. Jepson left in the delivery truck, the Unity Refrigeration Truck pulled out and started following it north and kept following it north and north and went up to 87th Street. And about that time, the detectives noticed that a passenger car was also following the Unity Refrigeration Truck. So there was a triple surveillance going on here, double surveillance. They didn’t know what it is. So the first thing they did was stop the car that was following the Unity refrigeration truck. They found it was driven by Robert Bradshaw, a salesman for the Kodaki Company, and he had already stopped. He had picked up a traffic patrolman somewhere along the way. He claimed he was following the delivery truck and behind the Unity refrigeration truck because he had learned of this suspicious truck following their truck. It gets kind of confusing, doesn’t it? [2:16] Triple Surveillance [2:17]The detectives eventually let them go right away, and once they got them identified, when they caught up with the Unity refrigeration truck, which was still following the Konecki delivery truck, they were at 79th Street and Washtenaw Avenue. When they pulled over the Unity refrigeration truck, they approached it in the usual way, guns drawn, one officer on the passenger side and one officer on the driver’s side, and ordered the three occupants out. And guess who they found inside that truck? But our old friend, Chicago Outfit Associate, this is early in his career, Frank Schweihs. He was 22 years old at the time. Newspaper reported he was living at 522 West 29th Street. I’m not sure where that is. You Chicago guys might even live in that neighborhood and want to drive by and see if it’s still there. Early address on Frank Schweihs. Stanley Bajic, who was 30 years old, lived at 3755 Admiral Avenue. He was an ex-con also. and a SAM-CNCO, 26 years old, of 6843 South Wood Street. They had absolutely no explanation for what they were doing. The officers checked the inside of the truck. They found two .38 caliber revolvers, and they found a police scanner that was tuned to Chicago PD. [3:39] Interrogation of Suspects [3:33]Frequencies so they could monitor the police frequencies. Took them in and interrogated them. If you want to check Mike Byrne’s Facebook page, The Chicago Outfit, old and current news articles, you’ll find the original article in here. There’s a pretty good picture of Stanley Bojic, Sam CSEO, and Frank Schweihs being questioned by a Lieutenant, Lieutenant Frank O’Sullivan of the Detective Bureau. Of course, they really didn’t have a case on them, but they did send a message that, Yeah, we know who you are, and you probably better leave Alfred Koenigke’s tobacco distribution alone. This is Chicago. More than likely, somebody then came back around to Mr. Koenigke and said, Hey, I understand you’re having problems with people stealing from your trucks. Well, yeah, so what? Well, you know, we can handle that. You know, these are just young guys. We can take care of these guys. You know, just a couple of C-notes a week, and hey, we can handle these guys. You won’t have any more trouble. That’s how they do business in Chicago many times, and that was back in 1954. And everybody in every major city in the United States, if they somehow rubbed up against the mob, that’s how they had to do business. You could not depend on local police. The FBI was not interested. This actually happened in 1954, March the 24th. [4:58] Conclusion and Reflections [4:58]Bar Tappers, I hope you enjoyed that little story. It’s a little story about hijacking cigarette trucks in the 50s by the Chicago Outfit and the very early career of Frank Schweihs, who would go on to become a feared killer and a very important guy. He’s the guy that extorted money from the porn shops that Red Womet talks about in his book. So I suggest that you Google Red Womet, W-E-M-E-T-T-E. You can find out firsthand knowledge about Frank Schweihs. So if you have a loved one or a family member or friend that has a problem with drugs or alcohol, make your first call a first call. Call 816-361-5900 or go to their website, www.firstcallkc.org. And if you want to support this podcast, please, please use your Venmo app. Buy me a cup of Starbucks every once in a while or go to my website, www.ganglandwire.com. Go to the shop page, make a donation through PayPal or with your credit card. You can become a regular subscriber to it or you can buy my book or you can buy my movie good night folks.  

The post Chicago Cigarette Theft Foiled appeared first on Gangland Wire.

Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. In this episode, Gary tells the story of Brilab (Bribery Labor), which initially aimed to uncover corruption in Louisiana and Texas and led to the indictment of New Orleans Mafia boss Carlos Marcello.

Marcello, the kingpin of organized crime in the South, controlled operations across Louisiana, Texas, and Tampa, with significant influence over local officials. Joseph Hauser, an insurance salesman turned FBI informant, arranged a meeting between Marcello and undercover agents and proposed kickbacks for insurance contracts. Marcello agreed to use his influence to secure insurance contracts for the agents but demanded kickbacks in return. Louisiana State Commissioner Charles Romer accepted bribes to facilitate state insurance contracts but claimed the money was a campaign contribution, resulting in minimal charges. Marcello also expressed interest in gaining control over the Teamsters’ health and welfare insurance funds, citing the illness of Teamsters’ leader Frank Fitzsimmons as an opportunity to make this move.

Marcello offered to secure Teamsters insurance contracts in exchange for a $2 million cash deposit in a safety deposit box under a fictitious name. Marcello’s involvement in Brilab highlighted his influence over officials and his ambitions to expand his criminal enterprises. The case revealed the extent of government corruption and the reach of organized crime in the United States during the late 1970s. Despite Marcello’s efforts, his plans to control the Teamsters’ insurance business were thwarted by law enforcement actions and the eventual downfall of critical players like Alan Dorfman. Support the Podcast Subscribe to get new gangster stories every week.

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To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast. Donate to the podcast. Click here! Transcript [00:00:00] Well, hey guys, welcome all you wiretappers back here in the studio of Gangland Wire. This is Gary Jenkins, retired KCPD intelligence detective, now turned podcaster and documentary filmmaker and author of books—or of one book, anyway—about the Las Vegas skim. But enough of that. I stumbled into a story. A friend of mine sent some old FBI files. That had to do with Abscam that he found doing some research he was doing. And it had an interesting story in it. Then there was a, I think it was a life magazine article that interpreted some of these files and, and it made it a little easier to research the story and write some script that I could explain it to you. Cause it’s about Abscam, and it’s about Brilab, and it’s about. My porn. Now, those were three really famous stings that the FBI did back in the 1970s and [00:01:00] 80s, and there’s a lot of controversy about them. A lot of, , there’s even some congressional hearings about the FBI and doing these reverse or these stings and Anyhow, but the title of my story today is how a leak prevented the FBI from recording a meeting of the Mafia Commission down in New Orleans during Mardi Gras times. Now speaking of missed opportunities during the casino skimming investigations, here in Kansas City we had a wire up. It was on a lawyer’s office and they picked up Nick Civella talking to his, brother or his nephew. George Chiavola, who was a Chicago police officer who had been carrying some of the skim money back and forth between Kansas city and Chicago. And, and he had Mr. Chiavola set up a meeting between himself, Nick Savala, our boss and his brother Cork to meet with Joey Aiuppa and Joey Aiuppa brought Jackie Cerone to this meeting. [00:02:00] The meeting did come off and we listened to him or the FBI listened to him at the time, planned it, figured out where it was going to be, probably what room it was going to be in, and why it was in that room. He told his nephew to get some Lambrusco wine and some antipasto and set up a nice table for IUPA. And it was really an interesting lesson to him, plan this meeting, that that was all in Sicilian. So we listened to it in Sicilian. I’ve listened to it in Sicilian, but then I’ve got a transcript that explains, you know, what was with the interpretation of it, translation of it. So the FBI finds out about this meeting and they, the address of Shia Bola’s relatives, it was a three-story brownstone up there, kind of by Wrigley Field, I believe. And they put some microphones in a second-floor den that probably that’s where Nick was telling him to set up this meeting when Iupa arrives, which he does arrive. Shiavola sends his son out, [00:03:00] who’s also a Chicago policeman, and tells him to sweep the streets, and they call back and forth. Streets been swept? Anything, problem out there? Didn’t see any problem. He said, okay, call them up wherever they are. They’re hiding somewhere up the block, or a couple, three blocks away. Send them on down. So they go on down, and,, so there were no pictures of this because you couldn’t get in close, but they were listening to it on the phone. They had this bug in there, and there’s a chance to listen to the head of the Kansas City mafia and the head of the Chicago outfit discuss business. And, Nick was going to discuss Kansas City, putting together a package of straw men, if you will, to buy out Alan Glick out of the stardust. It turns out that they didn’t get it done, but when Aiuppa arrived, he refused to walk up the stairs to the second floor because he had a bad heart. So they sit down the first floor and the FBI missed a chance to record this meeting between these two bosses. It would have been historic because they probably got into [00:04:00] other things. So, you know, say lovey. But this story here, the missed opportunity to record a meeting of the Mafia Commission down in New Orleans, is an exciting, little-known story. It starts off with a long-time Washington lobbyist named Isaac Irving Davidson. He’s been around forever, and that’s all he’s ever done. He knows everybody, every mover and shaker. He’s from up in the Northeast. But interestingly, he was a close friend of the New Orleans mob boss, Carlos Marcello. Marcello even used to call him. They picked this up on some kind of a wire, Uncle Snookum’s. And through his many business deals, Davidson had had some dealings with a Los Angeles based insurance operator and convicted swindler named Joseph Hauser. Mr. Hauser went to Davidson and got an introduction to Carlos Marcello. He wanted to do some business down in New Orleans. He’d been out in Los Angeles, wants to do business in New Orleans, and he gets [00:05:00] his connect with Carlos Marcello and, and which ends up in Hauser getting access to all kinds of insurance business from the building trade union off the bat, some lucrative contracts with the local teamster’s unions and longshoremen unions down in New Orleans. He leveraged this business through his insurance company that he purchased in New Orleans and Carlos Marcello setting this insurance company up, getting all these nice contracts. By the end of 1978, actually, this was 76. By the end of 78, he had been going for a couple of years, but Houser was in trouble again. I said, he’s a swindler. These guys, even though they could do business right and make money, they don’t. The SEC got onto him because of some shenanigans he was doing. He placed his company under receivership because they had discovered some irregularities. I don’t know exactly what they were. It’s probably not really important, but what is important that. He and this Mr. Davidson were indicted for federal racketeering [00:06:00] charges in February 1979. Hauser went ahead and pled guilty, and he had to pay off a hefty fine and he was going to have to do some prison time. That’s when the FBI—you know, they were probably watching all this—pounced and turned him into a cooperating witness. And they wanted to start this ambitious sting operation because they had these other two stings going on at the time. This was a thing for the FBI. They called it Brilab. B R I L A B. You may have heard of BriLab. And this, these other stings going on were Abscam and MyPorn were the two big ones that made some headlines. Now, Abscam, if you remember, that was one where the agents were opposing as an Arab sheik, willing to bribe New Jersey politicians. They wanted to open up some casinos in New Jersey, and that’s where the famous saying that was, was on the, there’s a lot of videos out there of, at the time that got leaked of New Jersey politicians taking money directly from this Arab in full headdress. And the saying was Bush money [00:07:00] walks. The saying was money talks and bullshit walks. So that probably reminds you about abscan. They did a movie about this too. My porn, Miami porn pornography. That was a sting where some agents set up a pornography distribution company in Miami and started buying porn from mob connection, connected distributors all over the country. This was one interesting thing about this was one of the agents that got involved with this. Got caught shoplifting like a couple of years later and kind of, it really damaged any testimony that he was able to give, you know, the claim was that he got so into this criminal lifestyle working, you know, deep cover, undercover 24 hours a day, seven days a week. But he didn’t know right from wrong anymore. Sting ended in 1980 and took down some of the largest porn distributors in the United States and several high-ranking members of the mafia. I don’t need to go into all that. I don’t want to confuse you with too many details because we’re discussing Brilab and Carlos Marcello. Brilab or [00:08:00] bribery labor, and it started out as a way to uncover official corruption in Louisiana and Texas and ended up with the indictment of Mafia boss in New Orleans, Carlos Marcello. One of the more exciting aspects of Brilab was never made public back then. And these involved the dealings, of course, with the pudgy grain, Carlos, little man, Marcello, and he was about 70 at the time. And as I said before, he was the king of organized crime in New Orleans and all over the South. He, Trafficante had, Trafficante had Tampa. There was a kind of a boss up in Texas and Dallas. But Marcello ran everything down in the South there. And he needed. Check with him before you do anything. This guy had talked about Joseph Hauser, insurance company owner and insurance salesman, Swindler, and the FBI turned him. So he sets up a meeting with these agents and Carlos Marcello. He claimed that these were guys he knew from [00:09:00] California. He’d done business with them out in California. And, now he’s down in New Orleans, of course and, and they all make him a pitch to give him kickbacks for any insurance business that Marcello can direct their way. Well, the little man Marcello said, you know, I like you guys. And there are certain office holders in Texas and Louisiana that I can probably persuade to help. View and getting insurance contracts covering different state and municipal employees. Of course, you know, you’re going to get a fee. You’re going to have to give me something. No problem. They were steered to a Louisiana state commissioner named Charles Romer. This proved to be a pretty worthwhile contact because Mr. Romer was responsible for the day to day operations of all the Louisiana state government. And he was recorded agreeing to accept a 4, 300 a month. Payment in return for helping these so called insurance salesmen get a state insurance contract. According to the [00:10:00] tapes and to the testimony he accepted, Mr. Romer, 1979 accepted two payments amounting to 25, 000. And when they had the trial, you know, this was the bribe money. Well, in a kind of a crazy turn of events at trial, Mr. Romer said that, yeah, I did take that money. I was part of a kind of a bribery plan, but I didn’t do anything for them. I didn’t do anything illegal for them. I just took a campaign contribution for a gubernatorial candidate, a guy named Edgar Mouton, that he was actually was the, the election committee chairman at the time. And he ended up being convicted only of some minimal charges. He was not convicted of the big charges in this. It’s a pretty good defense. Now, in that initial meeting with the FBI agency, I also recorded Marcello claiming that he could deliver, other than state contracts, he said, that’s nothing compared to the millions of dollars that could be drawn [00:11:00] from the huge Teamsters health and welfare insurance funds. Now remember, this is 1979. Hoffa’s disappeared in 1975. Somebody else has run the Frank Fitzsimmons has run the, Teamsters union. They wanted to keep him in. I’ve said that before. They really wanted Hoffa gone and not to take Fitzsimmons out because Fitz was an easy guy for the mob to deal with. It was a pushover for them. He just wanted to go play golf. He was sick also. And he just wasn’t paying attention to any business. Marcello claimed that. Fitzsimmons was too ill to block any change if they wanted to get some of the national insurance business with the teamsters and gotten some local business down there in new Orleans. Agents ask him about, well, what about Alan Dorfman? He’s, you know, his Amalgamated Insurance company. He’s got all the contracts with the teamsters and Marcello claimed. Remember this is, , this is 79. And Alan Dorfman is going to get killed a few years later, but he claims in 79, well, we own the [00:12:00] Teamsters and Dorfman is going to be leaving. But if you remember, that would be easy to predict because at this point in time, 1979, the Las Vegas loans approved by Dorfman and the Midwest mob families that were involved had been exposed. The FBI served search warrants on my buses in Kansas City, which I was part of in Chicago, Milwaukee, and Cleveland, some people in Las Vegas, Alan Dorfman’s office and teams, and other team shares. They’d seen all the, you know, the affidavits for probable cause and all that. So they knew what was going on. I knew it was all falling down on. They knew that the FBI had something I think Marcello saw this too, and he saw that as his opportunity to make this little incursion into the Teamsters piggy bank and him to get some influence and get some, some of that candy out of that piggy bank or that cookie jar, shall we say, and get a big cookie out of that Teamsters cookie jar known as the Health and Welfare Pension Fund, [00:13:00] They taped this deal offered by Marcello and he agreed to use his influence within the Teamsters to get a big cut of the union’s insurance business, like I said, but in return, they had to deposit 2 million in cash in a safety deposit box, which was going to be rented under a fictitious name. Once they did that, and he could show that they could show that they did that, and he would guarantee that they could take over the teamsters insurance business. Alan Dorfman was out. Alan Dorfman had many legal problems during these years. I mentioned about the skimming and the teamsters loan, but he also was caught on tape conspiring to bribe Nevada Senator Howard Cannon along with Joey Lombardo. And so he had a case pending on that. He’s going to be murdered a couple of years later in 1983. The deal of this, of this magnitude, requires the approval of the Mafia’s commission, particularly Chicago. Because Chicago, you know, this has been their baby a deal was made. They were going to [00:14:00] have a commission meeting in New Orleans during Mardi Gras in 1980. I believe This would have been my bosses’ most important meeting since the famous Appalachian meeting in 1957. Chicago and New Orleans families supposedly, before they met, had agreed on how to cut up this 2 million payoff to switch to Teamsters insurance. But another topic, according to these reports, another topic was how to recover any kind of dominance by the mob and the international narcotics traffic, because by the 80s, the cocaine is flooding in, the Colombians are making all the money, and you know, the mob guys are making money, but There’s more money to be made out there and they’re not in control of it. And, you know, the future will be the, with the Sicilians and they controlled a lot, but slowly, but surely they went down on the pizza connection and the Colombians and now Mexicans have [00:15:00] just. Totally taken over the narcotics business. If there’s any mob guys involved with it, they’re working under Sicilians, Sicilians, they’re working under Columbians or Mexicans. They’re just buying from them. They have no influence down there. The FBI, of course, was hoping that they could pick up all this discussion with microphones and they planted a bunch getting ready for it because Marcello was going to be the host. And they had some ideas about where it would be. Well, remember I talked about Abscam and Brilab. Before this meeting, this is Bri lab. We go back to ab scam. Somebody during this time, 80s at 79 or 80 has leaked the details of the app scam staying out and the FBI had to cut it short, start serving warrants, making arrests prematurely. And actually they were getting ready to do that, but they wanted to do it on the down low. But Abscam, because some agents were really mad. [00:16:00] They said it was coming down too early. Abscam blew up in the headlines because somebody leaked it. And the mafia said, Hey, you know, what’s going on? Who, you know, why are we here? Who we’ve been dealing with? And they called this meeting off and started taking a closer look at who they’d been dealing with. And I think probably then they knew they were been dealing with some Peckerwoods, two of whom were. Rather unknown. And the other one, you know, again, he was an outsider. Remember how’s there was an outsider too. As well as the agents were, of course, this, some of these wire taps they’d had had really been paying off. The one they had on this Irving Davidson, who was a longtime public relations man and lobbyist in the Capitol and was a friend of Marcello’s called him uncles or Marcello called him Uncle Snookum’s FBI taps it over Davidson regularly calling some low-level assistance to, aides of then-president Jimmy Carter discussing his client’s problems. So he had a Had some [00:17:00] pipelines into some pretty highly placed people in, in Washington, D. C. Now, why, why was this get leaked? I just speculated a little bit. Was there a bad agent? Was there a bad prosecutor? Was it a mistake? Well, according to what I read and according to some Justice Department sources, some of the, as I said before, some of the key agents involved with the New York, New Jersey area, part of Ab Scam, , it was kind of down in Florida and then New Jersey and they were working their way up into New York with this phony sheik and trying to bribe politicians. Somebody was wanting to take it down and these agents were mad. They said, that’s premature. So, but they went ahead and took it down and shut it down. And that’s when somebody started leaking this information out. , they leaked it out because they were afraid that, you know, if they take this down in secret, then the next thing, you know, those cases will just disappear into the bowels of the department of justice. And there’ll [00:18:00] be some high-level coverup. Cause they had a bunch of politicians. I believe there were democratic politicians at a democratic administration at the time. So, you know that was their fear. And that’s why they started leaking it like crazy. Cause they wanted the ad scam, those dramatic. Videos and that dramatic language of these politicians is blatantly taking money from an Arab sheik. They want that out on the public record so that cannot be swept under the rug. I went ahead and closed down my porn also at the same time. And that was kind of the end of these big ambitious FBI stings. , all the defendants in all these cases appeal to convictions on charges of entrapment. Congress even held meetings on the use of these stings and trying to entrap people that may or may not have been predisposed to, if you hadn’t offered them a whole lot of money, maybe they wouldn’t have gone out looking for the money. It’s always kind of a deal, you know, on whether you entrap somebody or whether they were predisposed to [00:19:00] To take money as an official bribe, anyhow, but that’s the story of ab scam, Carlos Marcello, and how some loose lips sunk this ship. And How the FBI missed an opportunity to record a meeting of the mafia commission down in. New Orleans during Mardi Gras about 1980, I believe, anyhow. Thanks a lot, guys. I just thought it was an interesting little story that you would, you would like and enjoy and enlighten you about this BriLab thing and kind of what was going on, why they did it. These other stings that were going on, the ab scam and my porn. Each one of them is a story in itself. Each one of them has mafia people involved, organized crime people involved. Anytime there’s politicians, dirty politicians out here. Casinos and pornography and any kind of gray area business or totally illegal business, then the mafia is going to be somewhere involved in around it and in our history [00:20:00] and probably today, but everything’s legal today. So I don’t know what the mob has to do today. And yeah, thanks a lot, guys. Don’t forget. I like to ride motorcycles, so watch out for motorcycles when you’re out there. If you have a problem with, PTSD and you’ve been in the service, be sure and go to the, VA website and get that hotline number. There’s help available and drugs and alcohol addiction of those really go hand in hand with PTSD. And if you have a problem with that, maybe you can get that help at the VA. If you’ve been in the service, you probably can, but if you haven’t, our friend, former Gambino soldier Anthony Ruggiano, is a drug and alcohol counselor down in Florida. Plus he has a hotline on his website. So go find anthonyruggiano. com or, or he’s got a YouTube page. Anyhow, get hold of him and get some help for yourself. And let me know if you ever do that. I’d be really interested to see how that worked for you so thanks a lot, guys. Don’t forget to like and subscribe. And keep coming back and give me a [00:21:00] review on, Apple. If you can figure out how to do that and tell your friends about it, share it on your social media, more viewers we get, and the more listeners we get, the better I like it. Thanks a lot, guys.

The post The Brilab Affair: Marcello’s Web of Corruption appeared first on Gangland Wire.

Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. In this episode, Gary and his guest, Camillus “Cam” Robinson, talk about the turbulent life of Jimmy the Bomber Cataura, a figure whose name became synonymous with Chicago’s underworld. Known as Jimmy the Bomber,” Jimmy Cataura’s story is a complex web of crime, suspicion, and intrigue. In 1952, Jimmy the Bomber surfaced in the newspapers concerning bombings in the Chicago area. Two Teamsters Union officials’ homes and a gasoline station where employees had refused to join the union were targeted. Despite being questioned, Jimmy couldn’t be linked to the bombings and was instead charged with disorderly conduct.

Over the years, Jimmy’s alleged involvement in criminal activities continued to escalate. In 1967, he was linked to a murder investigation, but no charges were filed. 1972, Jimmy was among the men arrested on fraud and loan shark charges. The men had set up a fraudulent corporation that charged fees for financing loans totaling over one million dollars. Despite these brushes with the law, Jimmy the Bomber evaded conviction. A federal grand jury next indicted him for transporting a stolen vehicle across state lines, but the outcome of this case remains unknown. Jimmy’s reputation within the criminal underworld grew as the years went by. Jimmy the Bomber was rumored to be involved in various criminal activities, including stealing and selling stolen auto parts. However, his criminal empire began to crumble in the late 1970s as rival factions within the Chicago Outfit vied to control his chop shop rackets. South Side Boss Frank LaPorte died, and Al Pilotto took over. The new power wanted a piece of this chop shop racket.

In 1978, Jimmy’s life came to a violent end when he was gunned down while sitting in his car. His death marked the end of an era, leaving behind a legacy of crime and intrigue that fascinates today. Join us as we unravel the life of Jimmy the Bomber Cataara, a man whose name became synonymous with Chicago’s criminal underworld.

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To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast. Donate to the podcast. Click here! Transcript [00:00:00] Hey, welcome all you wiretappers. Good to be back here in the studio of gangland wire. I’ve got my good friend, Camillus Robinson, cam Robinson. Welcome cam. Good to see you. I haven’t talked to you for a while. Hey Gary. I can’t tell you how much it it means to me to be back and be back in the the studio with you. It’s such a, such a great time. And I’m glad to be here and I’m really excited about today’s show. Really good. Yeah, we’re going to do Jimmy the Bomb Jimmy “The Bomber” Catuara. Is that how you pronounce that, Cam? ? Catuara, yeah. Catuara? Okay. That’s how I would say, yes. You know, you know how everybody laughs about how I drag out my bowels up here. Not as bad, much as they laugh about me. Right. One guy said, well, that hillbilly Tw that guy’s, God, he said, man, he, he can’t be telling me about the mafia. . I had to get everybody to to help me out with Joey. I Joey Aiuppa Yeah, you can’t do that. And I, and I do. I’ve got no, I am Italian. I’ve got no excuse. Yeah. See, I’m full excuse anyhow, we’re going to talk about Jimmy the Bomber Couture, you know, and, and Cam, [00:01:00] he came over as a child, I believe from Sicily. Now, if I’m wrong on that, let me know guys, but it, it looks like he was naturalized after he got here, but probably as a young man or a child you know, he, he got married, had a couple of kids and, and, and we’re talking about the, the twenties. By 1929, he’s, he is in his early 20s, I believe, and, you know, the stock market crashes and, and he’s a young guy, got a couple of kids trying to scuffle out a living and kind of interesting note I found on that when the stock market crashed, banks weren’t lending out money. And you know what happened when the banks quit lending out money? That’s when the loan shark business started. I never put that together before. Did you, Cam? Do you ever think about that? You know, I didn’t in that, in that capacity, it’s, it’s interesting how there was such a conglomeration of so many different things that went into in that time period, like you said, the banks collapsed, the alcohol became illegal, all the immigrants started [00:02:00] pouring into the country. And that, that confluence of different things really is, is what, what blew up, what we came to. That was, is the mafia, you know, it was all, it was just the perfect storm that led to all these rackets that blew up. I mean, it really was the time and the place to start an organized crime empire. Really? And, and, you know, loan sharking, if you think about it, it had all those Sicilian immigrants and, and the banks were all ran by the English and the Germans, and they’re not going to loan anything to new newly arrived immigrant. Plus the immigrant can’t read the paperwork and probably can’t speak the language. So, you know, the loan sharking business, you know, was going to come up. It was really interesting. And with, with bootlegging and a variety of other things, of course, there were some narcotics business going on at the time coming out of. Cuba going up through the Midwest and, and, and in New York, and that was all by the mafia. So, you know, it was, it was a perfect storm for that. You know, he ends up being, you know, they list him in the sentence census [00:03:00] in the 1930 census as a presser and a trailer shop, tailor shop. But pretty few years later, he’s a retail meat market. then he’s an inmate in the Illinois State Penitentiary during this time. So he’s a real renaissance man, is a renaissance man, the man for all seasons. The census did indicate he had completed the fourth grade. So he wasn’t like most of these guys, you know, they didn’t go, if they went to high school, that was back then, especially hardly anybody went to high school, unless you were of a certain class, all the working class kids, you went to eighth grade, ninth grade, and then you were on, you were working. So that’s what he did, but he was maybe not a you know, a genius scholar, a Rhodes scholar or anything like that, but he learned the streets and he learned it from a guy, which is interesting, a guy named James Bellacastro, who was known as the king of bombers. So he learned from the king of [00:04:00] bombers and he will eventually become known as the. Jimmy the Bomber Catuara. So go figure that man. That’s right. And Belcastro was a big deal. There were a couple of guys who, who came after Belcastro who, who took that name, the bomber, but you know, they, he had a whole string of bombers that came after Belcastro. Matter of fact, one of his early arrests was he and a guy named William Palermo were apprehended with a bomb and that was in 1933. He even got a little description of it. He had seven sticks of dynamite and they were getting ready to go to trial and the defense would contend that the bomb was planted on them by the cops, which is, you know, I’m not sure how that works, but I guess, you know, I guess they were you know, it’d be possible they’d try to shake them down or something. Those same cops would testify that he had offered him a thousand dollar bribe while he was at the police station. So he was doing pretty good early on. Thousand dollars. Yeah, that’s a lot of damn money in [00:05:00] 1933. Jesus, I don’t know how, I don’t know how you could resist that in 1933. I couldn’t, I couldn’t bribe a cop for 1, 000 tomorrow. They charge you with attempted bribery and he ended up getting five to 25 years. I never understood those indeterminate sentences, but I think it’s, I think it is to, to keep. people, keep them better prisoners because they’ve got a chance of maybe getting out because you have this indeterminate sentence. So, you know, you could be a good prisoner and then have a chance at getting out early because, you know, there’s not a locked in time that you have to stay there, wouldn’t you say? Would you hazard a guess on that? That makes really good sense that I hadn’t thought about it. I’ve seen those sentences before, you know, in the reading that you and I do a lot and I never really got it. I thought, you know, that was sort of a broad outlining, but it really does make sense. And it is sort of a, you know, a reason that they should an incentive for, for, for good behavior. You know, and [00:06:00] he was in Chicago and it seemed like this is the thirties. But Capone had something to do with the dairy business at one time. And this was, this mom was. Arrest was something to do with a string of bombings in the dairy business. So somebody was trying to line up the dairy business back during the 30s, I would say. That was Curly Curly Humphreys had a lot to do with that. They figured if you could, if you could line up the milk and, you know, milk was everywhere. You had the, just like with everything, you had the, the milk unions and they delivered the milk around just like, you know, years later in, in Jersey, like you should have the garbage, but if you could line up the. The milk lobbies, that was one of the first unions that they were known for, for getting lined up was, was, was the the milk haulers. And that actually led to several types of legislation for how clean milk had to be and different things. I mean, it was really revolutionary how currently view the the unions and things. Yeah, he was, he was a genius. He was smart. He was an [00:07:00] organizer. He, he knew he didn’t need to go around beating people up and robbing stores and transporting narcotics. And booze was legal by now, but he knew to get into those unions and organize people and extort money from businesses. Guy was a, guy was a genius, really. He register for the draft they found out in, in you know, for World War II, but he never served. A lot of guys did serve in World War II whether you’re in the mob or not, but a lot of people served. It was kind of unusual if you didn’t. He was a little bit old actually, I think, to to be going in. The next time he gets questioned about bombings, it’s about bombing. the homes of some brothers that own a paper company, the Victory Paper Company. I’m not sure what that was all about, but it’s alleged that those, that paper company was supplying paper to the policy operators. You know, they had to have paper to write down the bets. You know, interesting thing when I was looking researching. The bomber, they [00:08:00] described the policy and said the name of policy came from the fact that there were, there are these insurance policies that people pay like 50 cents a week on or 25 cents a week on it. And, and I, they, they still have that. And so it was a little bit like that. You go, you’d write down their name and get their 25 cents for the, the wheel for the lottery. And so it looked a little bit like, you know, an insurance policy collector, the guys that went around and collected from all the. You know, 15, 25 cents, 50 cents a week from people to, they just want to, poor people just want a burial policy. I remember that’s been going on a long time. I think it’s still a certain business of that out there. Oh yeah. So anyhow, just a little aside there about the policy. You know, he was he was arrested and charged with and released, of course, for more bombings in Chicago area. They bombed a gas station trying to organize gas station employees to join a union. So the usual kind of [00:09:00] mob activities where you need to. To force people to intimidate people to join a union or to go on strike or not go on strike or solve a strike or, you know, whatever you need to be done. And then when an election, when an election, this guy would go around and do a little bombing for him. So he had that name righteously, but Jimmy, the bomber and he had it all along. Matter of fact, he he was questioned about that gas station bombing and the Teamsters, I guess, I don’t quite understand is what I read the Teamsters offered a reward for whoever was planting these bombs. I’m not quite, I don’t quite understand that, but you never know. You gotta look into it a little deeper sometimes. If you’re trying to cover up who did something, you run the Teamsters, you know, that’s, that’s, we’ll talk about a sort of a little sleight of hand of the mob later on, but that sounds like the kind of thing where, you know. If you are the one that does the bomb and you’re the one that puts out the reward, it kind of draws the attention [00:10:00] away from you. Here’s one of his first murders that they really tried to link to him, and it was a guy that worked for him as a part time, as in a collection agency that he had, you know, kind of his loan sharking, somebody’s loan sharking business, and he was like, he was going out doing some collecting for a loan sharker loan sharking business, and this guy worked for him, and that guy was found strangled to death, and then he’s trunk, you know, the old Chicago trunk music thing. I think they pioneered that, I don’t know. So that, that was one of his first murders. That he was charged or not charged with, but was questioned. So he was you know he did have somebody that came up early that challenged him and that was Albert Toko. And you know, he’s he was kind of South side guy. And, and so do you remember, remember when he was kidnapped? This is what we’re jumping on into the seventies. I mean, I don’t know if there’s anything else in between. So in between you get Al Toko [00:11:00] started into the stolen car racket in the late sixties, he goes into prison. So they’re both South side guys at this time. And you’ve got, is, he’s a, he’s a pretty heavy hitter. He’s been around for a long time. Pilato is, I’m sorry, Toco is an up and coming guy. He works under Pilato and he starts this. This racket, Indiana and parts of Illinois, really the Wild West, their, their laws regarding switching VIN numbers and, and, and keeping track of those records were so lax and, and security was just non existent as far as what was required to, to, for insurance purposes and different things. I mean, so that he discovered this and the racket really shot through the roof. It became eventually a 30 to 40 million a year racket, but Togo goes into prison late 60s. That’s it. At that point Jimmy Guitar comes and he takes over the racket. I mean, it’s, it’s sort of in his neighborhood. And so he decides he’s going to step up and he’s going to take over to go zone [00:12:00] racket. And he puts together a crew of guys He’s got a guy, Steve Ostrowski, who owns owns a chop shop. All his guys own chop shops, basically. Richie Ferraro and Joseph Theo, Earl Abercrombie. And his main muscle Adorino and obviously Billy Dauber. And Billy Dauber is a psychopathic murderer. And it’s always good to have one of those guys if you if you are a mob heavy hitter. So he puts together this band of guys. And Toko eventually gets out of prison. And this was around this time before Toko, really, Catuara was at loggerheads with Pallado. Toko thought that, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, there’s so many vowels, you know, I have a problem with my vowels. So, Catuara was at loggerheads with Pallado. He thought he was going to take over the Southside crew when Frank Laporte died. There’s a meeting at the back of the funeral home when LaPorte passed, and you’ve got you’ve got Paul the waiter, and you’ve [00:13:00] got you’ve got Tony Cardo, and they come to the conclusion that after Frank LaPorte, it is not going to be Jimmy Kitara who takes over the, the South Suburban crew, the Southside crew, it’s going to be it’s going to be, Who becomes their, the capo down there. And that really, really pushed that was a, a really bothersome thing for Qatar, who was an old guy, an old. school guy and thought that he really deserved it. And that was about the time that he started taking over Tocco’s rackets because Tocco was Pallado’s guy. And he steps into these, he builds up this crew of heavy hitters that we mentioned. Toko comes out of prison and Pallado is still having problems with with this Katara. And so, there was so much money in these chop shops. And all these guys own their own, their own junk yards and guitars guys around 1976. The damn broke a lotto and Tocco [00:14:00] decide they’ve had enough. And guitar has got to go, but they can’t just take him out because he’s got a lot of standing and believe it or not, there is a lot of respect in that world for the old Sicilian guys, you can’t even, you know, and I know that we don’t always understand the dynamics of what they consider respect. I mean, you know, Gary, it’s, it’s, it’s weird. His guys don’t hold the same. So they start taking them out one at a time. You know what? Almost you get, you get an October, this Ostrowski who was like his right hand man, and then in almost two a month in 1977, two in June, two in July, and then in August, and, and this is where you really see the wild bunch. This is, they were the real heavy hitters in taking these guys. Doubt until you get to San Manino. That was a real public murder and the cas grew in the wild bunch teaming up. Qatar’s watching all his guys die. But they can’t kill Qatar. So they kidnap him and they sort of warn him, see, [00:15:00] you’re done. You’re on the shelf. Interesting. So that was when they tried to shelf him. Let, let’s make sure that everybody understands. Now, this is all geographically, this is all in the southwest part of Chicago, and this is Chicago is gonna the Chicago Heights crew, right. Correct. The Chicago Heights Crew. The Southside Chicago Heights Crew. Yeah, correct. I should have called it the Chicago Heights Crew. Which was ran by Frank LaPorte, goes all the way back to Capone days. Correct. And this, this borders on to Indiana. And so then you’ve got these different guys out there that have junkyards and of course, chop shops you know, body shops and they’re stealing cars. I knew a guy here in Kansas City, steal cars. He’d take them out to a farm and he’d cut them up and then he had a series of body shops that he was connected to and they’d actually call him and they’d say, Hey, I need a, you know, I need a front clip for a blue Cadillac. Now this guy would go out and find a blue 72 Cadillac or [00:16:00] 82 Cadillac. Steal that car and and you’d have part of the parts sold many times and so then they do runs clear up through the mid all around the midwest and so that’s what these guys were doing after zoom was cutting them up and then selling them to other body shops. Anywhere else in the country was really strict on where did these parts come from? Yeah. You know, where did you get that front clip? Where did you get that tie rod? Where did you get these different that, that, that right from that door that, that, where did you get these parts? And Indiana and Illinois, they were so lax on their record keeping and their requirements that it was, it was literally the wild west, this specific geographic area, their record keeping methods. It really created the perfect storm. That was kind of what what set the stage for this kind of job shop activity. So when Blank Report dies, it’s the, the hierarchy, Paula Wader and Tony Ocardo, [00:17:00] Joe Batters, they meet, and you know, they appoint the next boss of the Chicago Heights crew, and that ends up being Al Pilato, who, so Jimmy Catuara was this old time guy, now he was, He was, I don’t think he was from down there because he got killed way up in the path. Right. Yeah. But he, he had been working down there and now he’s out in a way. So in the Al Tocco is in and out of jail who are going to be more important later on in the outfit. But so I, okay, now I understand. I never understood this chop shop wars because it was. Geographically so far away from the patch, from, you know, the, the guys downtown from Joy Lombardo and you know, Cicero and all that, that I, now I finally got my, my mind around that. I, I appreciate that. One reason I wanted to do this show to help me get my mind around this chop shop wars because it was so huge. God, they killed so [00:18:00] many guys. So I’m sorry. Yeah. You were at the point that they’ve kidnapped Jimmy Couture, held him in the trunk, I think more than a day or two, wasn’t it? Yeah. And that was, that was to let him know, I mean, when we say you’re shelved, you’re shelved. We’re not going to give you another warning. Not gonna, this is it, this is it, you know? And so, because otherwise they would have just killed him. But as, as, you know, we mentioned earlier, there is a strange sort of respect. For that it has to had to exist in that mob world where they didn’t just kill every guy that made a man. I mean, there were rules. They were obviously broken at times, but there were rules that protected guy is, you know in in their own way. I mean, there was a hierarchy and they didn’t just kill Qatar. He was an old, well respected Sicilian guy, and there was a lot of respect for the Sicilians in Chicago. I mean, if you look at what happened after a car note, basically all the leadership Going forward was always [00:19:00] Ilian. So they, they didn’t just kill him, they kidnapped him. They, you know, gave him his walking papers and that was that. For a while. Now, while this is all transpiring, Illinois decides they need to crack down on a lot of this chop shop activity. The Illinois State Police forms a special task force led by Lieutenant Vladimir Ivkovic and Ivkovic as his old guys. And they really start going after this chop shop activity in Illinois. I mean, statewide, it’s big. And if Kovich, one day in I believe it’s 78, he finds a bomb outside of his home police. And this is state police lieutenant. The bomb is right next to the gas you know, the gas hookups for his home. Yeah. I mean, you, you as a, it’s cold as an officer. That’s, that’s not done. It’s cold. That is not, that is not done, is never done. So, but what they. [00:20:00] And I think that there were some problems. The bomb wasn’t so, they said if it had gone off, but it was just sort of sitting there and I think it wasn’t active or whatever. It was just sort of sitting there. A bomb happened to be sitting at the, at the at the home of the police, the state police lieutenant in charge of the chop shops. Very shortly thereafter, Jimmy the Bomber Catuara is executed walking through Chicago. And then it’s not, you know, it was never known who planted the bomb or anything like that, but my theory has always been that. Katara wouldn’t lay down, wouldn’t remain shell, wouldn’t do what he was told, and so this was used as sort of a justification. There was only one guy in Chicago named The Bomber at that time. So they leave a bomb, a relatively inert bomb, dangerous but relatively inert, they leave it at the head guys. Place this guy who would really be going after Toko’s guys at the time because Toko had basically won the chop shop wars and was starting in with [00:21:00] Lombardo. That’s another story. So that justified. The execution of Jimmy the Bomber Katara, because, well, look guys, he’s clearly out of control, going after state police, so we had to take him out, and then they don’t have to worry about it, they found, they found a reason to kill him, to where they didn’t have to worry about the Sicilian respect and all that jazz, and that’s what I’ve always seen. That was always my guess, obviously it’s not written down, nobody’s talked about it, but I always thought that was a false front that they used to justify killing Katara. Yeah, heck Toko, you know, rather than keep dealing with him, he might’ve just put that bomb up there by the, he knew whoever put that bomb there, they didn’t intend on it going off. They didn’t want too much heat brought down on them, but they knew the, the heat was going to come down from that bomb. And, and who’s it going to come down on? It going to come down on Jimmy the bomber. I mean, that’s, that’s a, that’s a really good. I would say, I, I just can’t imagine that he would [00:22:00] do that. I mean, when you’re in that position, you don’t really care that much about the police state police and local police. You kind of worry about the FBI, but by the time you know, they’re there, it’s too late anyhow, they’re just serving search warrants and getting your records. He was, he was an old man at this time. I mean, no, you’ve seen so. Yeah, I, I would say, unless he was a senile old man that that thought, well, this is, you know, like he went back to the old days, he thought he was still working for Al Capone or something. Right, Pineapple Primary, you know. Really? Well, that’s in fact, my story, you know, it’s kind of interesting that they would they would import guys from another crew, like the Wild Bunch and, and Jerry Scalise and, and Harry Aleman and some of those guys, was it Nicole Nicoletti? Some of them would bring them down from the Taylor, was it the Taylor Street crew or was that the yeah, they, they were they were Cicero and then Cicero crew. The, the Cal. Yeah. There were 2, 2 2 murderous crews out there was the Calabrese crew. [00:23:00] Yeah. Oh yeah. The Wild Bunch. They were the two crews. But still, though, the Southwest is so geographically isolated from and it ran all the way to Gary, Indiana. I mean, they really covered a huge area. So they probably had I probably had a lot of body shots down in Gary, Indiana, more than likely. It was it was that was you. The Chicago Heights crew covered the largest geographic area. With the exception of, I mean, of course you can say that, that, you know, Grand Avenue went all the way out to Vegas, but the largest geographic area was definitely the Chicago Heights group. Or you could say some of them went down to Des Moines. That’s right. They had Louie Fratto down there in Des Moines. So that’s right. Jerry knows G. O. A. I don’t know who they were. Actually, I think they were like, Kind of their own capo of, of Des Moines, if you will. It was so different back then, you know, compared to what it would eventually evolve to and how, how things were changed. So yeah, they [00:24:00] were kind of independent operators, but yeah, once it became more structured, yeah, this was just geographically, it was just a massive area, you know, the outfit it’s I can’t believe there hasn’t been more. Some kind of movies, decent movies about the outfit. There’s so many stories, so many great stories. I keep hearing, and you know Bulldog Drummond told me that he had been consulted, and, and there were people working on, at one time, a movie on Ocado, but You know how movies are, you hear about one and then you just never hear about it again. I know two or three like that people, you find out, you know, they’ve, they’ve even like got people saying so and so’s playing this part. So and so’s playing this part. This director’s on board and all that. And then you just never hear from it. It falls through. Exactly. You just never know how that’s going to happen. But anyhow I really appreciate you helping me with this story. It’s just one of those. Little stories that I’ve always [00:25:00] been confused about and I, and I figure if I’m confused, there’s a lot of mob fans and, and mob scholars that, you know, are, are kind of call ourselves scholars. A lot of interested people is the outfit. Interested people have heard about all this, the chop shop wars and Jimmy the bomber, but I never really understood because like I said, just so geographically Disassociated from the rest of the outfit to me that I couldn’t quite get get it together. How that fit how that worked together. And I have to assume that whatever they made out there, the Al Pilato, then he was kicking back up to sure. Yeah, I put later on. You know, 30 40 million a year racket in total course. The mob wants to not lock down as much of that as possible. And so, in addition to what was going on between guitar and Toko, they were killing individual guys, just like when they were trying to lock down the street tax. They were doing basic. [00:26:00] The, the the car theft tax also, it was all part of the same citywide scheme that they were doing. And so it’s, it’s not always clear who was killed as part of an actual, the war and who was killed to get them in line. You know, it was a really messy time that was going on. And, and you’ve seen the lists. I mean, they were dropping bodies left and right. They were. Guys, I’ll put in the show notes, I’ll I’ll put a copy of that list. So go to the show notes and you can see all the people a little bit about how they died. It’s kind of interesting. It’s kind of frightening in a way that they were killing that many people, man. And Billy Dauber, of course, he was Couture’s ace number one guy. From what I heard you say, I didn’t really quite realize where he fit in. And that was one of the more, more famous mob murders, really, if you will, because again, Bulldog. John Drummond almost got to witness that. They were watching the Adam News crew that were filming Billy Dahmer coming out of the courthouse. It was one of the other northern county courthouses. Will [00:27:00] County, yeah. Will County. And he was coming out and they, Drummond wanted to follow him. And he didn’t because they had something else downtown. They, their producer told him, get on back down to the loop and do something, film something and Dobber and his wife drive away. And, and who, who was in that hit crew was Jerry Scalise. The Calabrese brothers. And, and I think he had Petrocelli and I mean, you had, you had everybody, it was a whole crew out there that followed them as they went out and they lived in a rural area and. Killed Billy Dauber. He must have. Billy and Charlotte. And his wife too. They must have really been scared of that Billy Dauber to go that far to get him. And I think they’ve said that. I think Frank Calabrese Jr. remembers his father talking and he said, oh, he is very dangerous. It was all of us. Huh. Interesting. All right, Cam, you got anything else we need to say about this? I, you know, the chop shop wars, it was one of the, I don’t know if you remember this, Gary, but you were, you did a [00:28:00] show about Harry Aleman and I got into the wild bunch and that was us, us doing Butch Petruccelli, but that really led me down the, led me down the Primrose path into the chop shop wars and, and that was. really what got me started us working together. And so this is sort of coming back full circle. I mean, this is one of the first deep dives that I did for you. And I really, I have so much fun coming on here. I really appreciate it. It’s been you know, and I I’ve had a, had a year and I, I really really love coming on. I’m gonna have to Start coming back. Alright, we, we’ll get you back more regular and do a few more Chicago stories. I kind of get caught up. Absolutely. Brother. Tried to do, I, I do a couple, did a couple of Kansas City things. I just put one up about the River Key War and then putting one up about the war between the Ellas and the Spiros. I did these a long time ago. I thought, well, I just, I’m gonna, I’m gonna redo ’em and, and put ’em back up again. So I just did them and kind of, I saw the one you did about Johnny. Green. Johnny Green. Yeah, I just, he was killed with two guys. I tell you what, these two guys, they do, [00:29:00] they wanted to take out Johnny Green. He lived about a block from Nick Zabella, the boss, and, and they wait for him to come home at night. He had a joint and he comes in late at night. And he has a garage door opener and he opens the garage door and they’re standing right around the sides of the garage where you can’t see him to this day when I pull in my garage, I go ahead and shut the garage door as soon as I get clear inside because they just step inside and blast him in the shotgun. I mean, you got him trapped right there inside of his car. He can’t do anything. Guys, that’s a scary thing. So yeah, I don’t know. I just did a couple. I’ve got two I just put up about Springfield, Massachusetts. There’s a guy named Nick Parisi that wrote a book. And then there was a lady, Pasqualina, about Pasqualina Albano, who was married to the guy who has a different name, the king of the bootleggers at one time. He got killed by, by this Nick Parisi who wrote his own book. He got killed by Parisi’s ancestor Joseph, I think, [00:30:00] Joseph Parisi. So I’m doing the spring, the old days of the Springfield mob here in the next couple of weeks. So Springfield’s really interesting. Yeah. Yeah, it is. And you know, I found out how come it’s still kind of influenced by the Genovese families because of this Pasquale, Pasquale, Pasqualina married a guy from the Genovese family, but he was a weak sister, but he brought some of his relatives out and he died actually of natural causes, I think, but the Genovese influence never left Springfield, Massachusetts. There’s a gal on the MobBeat reporter, I’ll talk to you offline, but yeah, it’s really, she does a great, yeah, does a great job on the MobBeat up there. I’ve recommended everybody, I’ll have to dig her name up, but that, you know, there’s some great mob, mob journalists that are still around. And if y’all, if y’all dig a little bit, you can find them. There’s some, there’s some good mob writing still, and it’s been going on for a while. Yeah, really. I’d tell you the guy that I’m always impressed by. [00:31:00] And he only does New York stuff. A guy, he writes under Ed Scarpo. Yes. He is really, really good and really detailed. He knows a lot of people. He’s the one that really hooked me up with Michael DeLeonardo out of the Gambino family when I got the chance to interview him, but this guy’s got sources like you can’t believe. I’m always impressed with him. Yeah. All right, Cam. All right, brother. I really appreciate you finish this off, guys. You know that I like to ride motorcycles. So be sure and look out for motorcycles when you’re out there. And if you have a problem with PTSD and you’ve been in the service get on the V. A. And Get that hotline number and hand in hand with PTSD comes problems with drugs and alcohol. Well, we’ve got Anthony Ruggiano, former Gambino soldier that is has a drug and alcohol. Well, he actually works in a drug and alcohol place down in Florida and he’s got a hotline on his Facebook or his website. So be sure to like and subscribe and give me a [00:32:00] review and do all that kind of stuff. Tell your friends about the podcast and you can’t check out the gangland wire podcast group anymore. So find me. On Facebook, if you’re interested, and I’ll invite you to join, we had to go private. We got too many, too many too much stuff going on. I just couldn’t take it anymore. It’s a big podcast group. It’s got a lot of really interesting discussions from people who were, you know, grew up in the neighborhoods or had relatives that were involved in different families, whether it’s Chicago or, or New York, Kansas City or whatever. I even had a Kansas City mob guy on there who ran another Kansas City guy that’s kind of a periphery guy off because he posted up some pictures. So I got a Kansas City mob guy on it too. Yeah. All right, Cam. Thank you. Let me do a quick plug. I’ve got my book Swan Song with Frank Calabrese Jr’s wife Swan Song, sort of a real Chicago mob wife. It’s a, [00:33:00] it’s a. Great, great great story of a different take on the story for Mob Wives telling how a strong woman dealt with a hitman as her father in law. And I really, I really think everybody should check it out. It’s a good look inside a mob family from from A view that you don’t see very often. So yeah, it’s a great book folks. I’ve read it. We’ve got, if you look up, I’ve got an old interview somewhere in the last year or two years. I don’t know. You can find it on the just search for Lisa Swan, Camillus Robinson, Gangland Wire. You’ll find that interview too. But yeah, it’s a really good book. I hear she might go out and do a show in Las Vegas with Frank Calabrese. Her husband, her ex husband is out there permanently. He’s pushing for it. I was out there last week. I went to the Ma Museum and you know, Gary, you, you hooked me up with the guys out there and I talked to them and they were there. All about it. And like I said, you know, Frank is their [00:34:00] mobster in residence. You know, universities have their writers in residence and the mob has their mobsters in residence. He’s out there and he’s pushing for it. And I talked to her and she would be really excited about going out there. So I think it’s a, I think it would really be a great opportunity to have this husband and wife talk about how they lived the life. And, and what went on behind closed doors in the, in the world of hit man, loan shark, all around horrible guy, Frank Calabrese senior. Yeah, I just, it’s, it’s her description of that guy. So I tell you what, I guess you just live through things. You don’t know when you live in that life, you don’t know the danger and, and what you’re really dealing with. I mean, she knew, but. You know, part of it, you know, it’s just, it’s a fascinating book and, and I hope they can get those guys together out there. Plus it’ll give them a big plug for your book too. So I always want to make that money, [00:35:00] you know, give me that money, baby, make that money. All right, Ken, thank you. Take care, Gary.

The post Jimmy “The Bomber” Cataura appeared first on Gangland Wire.

Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. In this episode, I delve into a fascinating tale involving corrupt individuals like Gaspipe Casso, a New York police cop named Vinny Albano, and a drug dealer named Herbie Pate. Albano, engaged in taking down the French Connection, conspires with Pate to steal French Connection heroin from the police property room. The duo starts selling the stolen heroin on the streets, making millions of dollars, with Gaspipe Casso taking a cut. However, tensions rise between Albano and Pate over money, leading to a lethal confrontation where Pate shoots and kills Albano in self-defense.

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Transcript [0:00] Hey, all you wiretappers out there, I got a fun little story here about Gas Pipe Casso, a corrupt New York police cop named Vinny Albano, not one of the two mafia cops, Caracapa and Esposito, and another Lucchese associate drug dealer named Herbie Potte. That’s P-A-T-E, I believe. Yeah, P-A-T-E, Herbie Potte or Potte.

[0:29] Albano was part of the crew he worked narcotics and was part of the crew that helped take down the French connection so he knew about the dope and they knew about it being in the property room there was like what uh 70 some kilos in the property room at one time and so he got this Herbie Pott they both had been involved in a lot of crooked stuff and and with Gas Pipe Castle So he instructed Herbie Pate just how to to put on a police uniform and got some forged papers and access the property room. Well, well, this Herbie Pate goes in, he’s cracking jokes and he’s making the property room clerk laugh and that kind of thing. And he goes in and he walks out with all this French Connection heroin. Well, he and Vinnie, Vinnie Albano, they start selling it on the streets over the next.

[1:17] Few weeks and months, and they’re making a lot of money. I mean, this was millions of dollars worth of heroin. Millions in Heroin and Betrayal

[1:23] I mean, millions of dollars worth. And Gaspipe Castle was getting a piece of that action all along because they were associates in the Lucchese family, and he helped facilitate all this. So he always gets the action. Well, Albano was kind of a, he had a bad temper, shall we say, and he was suspicious. And Pate, he was like, you know, know he was a crook he no there’s no honor among thieves in this world and so they get arguing about money and albano is accusing pate of stealing from him albano drives to pate’s work and tries to run him down the car one evening and i don’t know what the work was but there must not have been anybody around he avoids him they albano gets out and he’s a tough guy but so So says Pate. Pate had gone to gas pipe and said, you know, I’ve got this problem with this crazy ass cop.

[2:16] I need a gun. So gas pipe had given him a little 38, a little, I think it was a little chief air weight, I believe. And they’d given him a gun. So he’s got a gun stuck down his back pocket while they’re wrestling around. Pate was able to reach around and get that gun out and start shooting. Deadly Confrontation on the Street

[2:32] And he shoots and he kills Albano right there on the street. Well, he’s not really that guy particularly. you know he’s a heroin dealer and a drug dealer and an associate but he’s not really that guy and and so he calls gas pipe casso who is that guy and casso said okay just wait right there i’ll be there casso runs over to where they are together they take albano’s car and they put his body in it and one of them drives it down to by the ronzos underneath the veronzo bridge and leaves it down there with his body in the car knowing it’ll be found probably later that night or the next day and takes him back home and and they say caspo we know a lot of this because casso if you remember, He came in for a period of time, then he went back out. I’d have to do a whole story on that whole ending of Gas Pipe Castle career. But he did talk about this to the law enforcement and explained this story out. And so he said when he got back home, he said he felt really bad because Albano had really been a big help to him.

[3:38] Albano, this former, I think he’s a lieutenant or something, he had even taken a big magnet into the courtroom. A courthouse where they had some tapes stored that were going to be incriminating for Casso and ran this magnet over these stored tapes and you know that straightens out all the little little electrons in a digital tape or whatever kind of analog tape either one I think a big heavy magnet will ruin those tapes and he’d done that for him but you know he I mean, Casso was like he kind of could disassociate himself from any real personal feelings about this. He felt like he was kind of a CEO or a boss of a big organization. And whatever they did and whatever they needed to do to survive and to make money and to prosper was okay. Not unlike a lot of big corporations today. The tobacco corporations, think about that. They stand up there live like hell in front of the national media, in front of some Senate investigating committee. So, you know, not much difference, you know, two sides of the same coin there, I would say. So thanks a lot. Just a little story I happened to run across and I thought you guys would be interested in.

The post What Happened to the French Connection Dope? appeared first on Gangland Wire.

Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins takes you on a riveting journey through the dark corridors of mob history. Step into the shadows with Gary as he sits down with an esteemed reporter and author, Larry McShane, to unravel the enigma that was Vincent “The Chin” Gigante, a man whose life reads like a gripping crime novel. Larry McShane, a seasoned veteran of the city beat, delves deep into his book “Chin: The Life and Crimes of Mafia Boss Vincent Gigante,” shedding light on the man behind the myth. Vincent Gigante’s story is one of intrigue and terror, a tale of a professional boxer turned merciless assassin whose very name struck fear into the hearts of his enemies. Handpicked by the notorious Vito Genovese to lead the Genovese Family, The Chin amassed a fortune of over $100 million, all while evading the relentless pursuit of federal investigators. But beneath the facade of power and wealth lurked a mind shrouded in darkness. Gigante appeared as a madman to the outside world, roaming the streets in a tattered bathrobe, playing games in storefronts, and hiding a second family from his wife. Despite his bizarre antics, Gigante’s cunning and ruthlessness knew no bounds, as he controlled an underworld empire of nearly three hundred made men. It took decades of intense FBI investigation by federal authorities to bring down the man who seemed untouchable finally. We learn they not only sent The Chin to prison but also forced him to admit he had been acting like he was crazy to avoid prosecution for many years. Join Gary Jenkins and Larry McShane as they peel back the layers of myth and legend to reveal the chilling truth behind one of the most notorious figures in mob history. Support the Podcast Subscribe to get new gangster stories every week.

Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee”

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Transcript Welcome all you wiretappers. Good to be back here in studio gangland wire. I have a really interesting guy today. You may have all heard of him. He wrote the book on the chin Gigante. I have Larry McShane. Welcome Larry. Hey, good morning. Thanks for having me. Well, Larry, start out talking a little bit about your book, you know, how you got into it and, and, you know, because we can always get it on Amazon. I’ll have guys, I’ll have links to the book in the show notes. So tell us about getting into your book. Yeah, I’d covered a lot of organized crime stuff in New York. I worked for Associated Press for a long time. And You know, I guess it’s, it’s the kind of thing where I looked around at some point and, you know, there had been guys were writing their own books, right? Sammy the bull, for example, there was a whole book about little Al DiArco and yet nobody had really done any kind of a project involving a Gigante [00:01:00] who I found as kind of the most compelling mob figure. Out of that generation and that time when the mob was finally kind of brought down by the FBI. He was interesting. And guys, the name of the book is The Chin. Let me give you the tagline on it. It is The Life and Crimes of Mafia Boss, Vincent Gigante. So by Larry McShane, like I said, I’ll have the the title, I mean, the link to the Amazon and the show notes. So how did you start out? Writing this book, did you like go to the FBI to do FOIA? Did you get, did you have some mob sources or just agent sources? Tell a little bit about the process of doing a, on a guy that’s so secretive that he put on this act, this crazy act all those years and so secretive that we’ll get into later. He stayed in the background and pretended like fat Tony Salerno was the boss when he really was. I mean, this guy was an enigma. Yeah, there was I mean, by the time I started doing the book, [00:02:00] Giganti had been in jail for some time at that point. And, and so there was some, some lapse of time between the whole story and, and and my decision to try and find somebody to, to buy this book, which they did. And the timing was such that there were a lot of people still around who were involved in the whole prosecution. Lawyers. And I, I would say almost everyone I reached out to was, was eager to cooperate and gave me tons of stuff, you know because even though Giganti had been such a high profile boss, you know, his whole dodge of feigning mental illness for three decades and also made him a guy. Who was very mysterious, although the most powerful mafia boss in New York, he was, he was something else. So you know, let’s talk a little bit about this this [00:03:00] enigma of, of him and the Genovese family would go all the way back. I was doing a little research on him about how they had this. This habit of having a real boss and then a guy that’s out on the street that everybody seems to know is a boss and, and plus they had all the, like, just the fact that he pointed the chin, you know, you didn’t say his name, you pointed at your chin and, and some of the other guys had those same kind of codes to avoid their names being heard on a wire tap or anything. So talk a little bit about that out front boss and then the real boss back behind in the Genovese family. Yeah. When, when the chin took over I believe Tony Salerno was the boss at that time, fat Tony. And it was just agreed that he would be the face of the, of the family for lack of a better term. And Gigante would actually be running the family. You know, and it worked so well that Tony got indicted in the commission trial and convicted on that while, [00:04:00] you know, the chin avoided. Prosecution until 1997, you know, almost two decades later. That was that, that was pretty slick. And like I said, they pointed to the chin I believe quiet Dom Shrello, they pointed at the lips. There’s another guy that made the sign of like bull horns. And the pointing at the chin was always the big one. Don’t speak. Just, just point to your chin. I even, I even met kind of Periphery mob guy who connected back to New York. And I mentioned, I just kind of was trying to engage him. He was, we would, what you’d call associate and he was living in another city, but he connected back to New York. And I mentioned you to Gante and he just started pointing at his chin. So yeah, pretty well known. And apparently people were still obeying that order, huh? This guy did. [00:05:00] Yeah, right. That was just like two years ago. So interesting. That’s funny. You know, when, when he. As he came up, you know, we start off with the famous Frank Costello screwed up hit and he, I believe he was Vito Genovese driver at the time and, and, and, cause he could talk a little bit about, did you go back that far about that, those first years as, as he came on up the, the chain of command, shall we say? Yeah, well, he had been, he had been working as a, not working. He was fighting as a, as a professional boxer for a little while. And you know, he grew up in Greenwich village, which was you know, a place where there were a lot of guys who were in the life living around. And you know, he came into the family and then really, as, as you just referenced his, his big break, if you want to describe it, that was that he is he has given the Costello [00:06:00] shooting which was in May, 1957. Fido Genovese is looking to take over the family. And and so Chin gets the job and it’s in May of 1957, I believe. Costello has just come home to his apartment on the Upper West Side, he’s in the lobby after a night on the town, and Giganti shows up, pulls a gun, and he delivers his famous line, this one’s for you, Frank, and then misses. He just grazes, he just grazes Costello’s head, and Costello survives, and Chin goes. So, you know, I think that’s what’s interesting. Another interesting thing about the Chin Gigante is he bridges the mob from the Prohibition era, really, which Costello, Lansky, and everybody came out of the Prohibition era and the first organization. [00:07:00] He bridges that. Divide between there and he’s an important mafia figure all the way up to the commission. And after, you know, like you see 10 years after the commission case before he finally goes down. So he just, he is the mob in New York city, but he’s one of the lesser known guys. Everybody knows Gotti and Sammy the bull and all that, but they don’t know Gigante hadn’t really been that much written about him either. Yeah. I mean, Gigante. You know, it was not a guy who was a fan of, of bosses like John Gotti. You know, he was, he was not on board with the killing of Paul Castellano in 1985 you know, outside Sparks Steakhouse. That’s an unsanctioned hit of a mob boss, which, you know, the other mob bosses don’t want to see that become a trend, right? No. Yeah. And I mean, it’s funny that this just came up. I, that the first big mob story I covered was that murder, which was in December of 1985. It was [00:08:00] Christmastime and Castellano got killed by the Gotti hit squad outside Spark Steakhouse on 46th Street. And I got sent over from I worked at Associated Press at the time. I got sent over from our office to the steakhouse and you know, I’ve never seen anything like it before. Since the, the two bodies are laid out in the street, the doors of their, of their town car are wide open. The FBI has Klieg lights set up all over the place. I mean, I, I didn’t plan for this coming up, but I can recall almost every detail of it because it was I guess it’s one of the first big stories I got to cover and the scene itself was just so impossible to forget. I can imagine that was, I mean, right in the middle of Manhattan around Christmas time. Yeah. All those people on the streets. Did you look across the street and see Gotti and Sammy the Bull sitting there watching? We only learned about [00:09:00] that later. And then, of course. You know, now, if you want to speak to Sammy about something, you can just call him on the phone. He’s I know he’s available to chat. I’m sure you’ve spoken with him, right? Yeah. For 500 bucks. He’ll talk to you. Hey guys, I’ll talk to you for free. But that guy, he wants money. As they say, Sammy was always an earner, you know, He was always a nerder. He’s still a nerder. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Gigante, another thing I, I found interesting is the the music business. And, and he was kind of involved with that Morris Levy and Roulette Records. And, and it seemed like there’s a famous story where they held one artist out of a window, the mob guys did, and threatened to let him drop if he didn’t succeed to something. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Did you, could you touch on that in your book? Sure. Yeah, yeah. Horace Levy, as you mentioned, was the guy who who ran Roulette Records which was kind of [00:10:00] a smaller label, but still managed to have a lot of a lot of hit records back in that era. Now he was friendly with, with Chin’s brother, too. You know, his brother was a priest, and the two of them paled around a little bit. And, and it was certainly you know, they say an artist friendly label. This was an artist unfriendly label. You know what I mean? Yeah. When, when I wrote the book I got a chance to speak with Tommy James of Tommy James and the Shondells. They’re big. Well, you’re, you’re as old as I am. They’re a big, a big hit group in the sixties. You know what I mean? Had a lot of, a lot of hits. And You know, he basically told me that all the chart topping in the world did not change the arrangement financially, which was, you know, Morris Levy’s getting a lot and the performers are getting a little, you know what I mean? And the label hung around for a while when, when Chin took over, you know, it, it was still a, still an operation where they could get money [00:11:00] from. But you know, at that point the industry was changing and Morris Levy was an old guy. You know, his time, it’s sort of come and go, but he He made a lot of money almost to say he stole a lot of money from artists who deserved it for the work that they did and he profited from. Yeah, he did, and it was, I think Tommy James even has his own book out there. I tried to get him to give me an interview. I don’t know if I ever even got the message or not, but but I thought that would be interesting, you know, the, the movie, the was, I mean, the series, the Godfather of Harlem depicted the chin in that. Did you happen to see that? No, I haven’t seen it. And You know, I, I won’t comment. I won’t comment on it. It wasn’t even close to, okay. It wasn’t even close to reality. Did kind of touch on the music business a little bit, but but that I tell you what, this guy was one of the kind of rackets was, that he liked, that he seemed to [00:12:00] like, he being Gigante. Well, I mean, the, the Genovese family really had Had its hands into sort of everything. You know what I mean? There was a, they called it the concrete club in Manhattan, where the mob was getting a percentage of all the concrete used at different buildings under construction. You know, they were by all accounts, deathly against drugs, you know they had other businesses, other industries, construction and, you know, just kind of a steady flow of income from a variety of, of places, you know, they were, you know, with chin there, they were the number one operation. Although Giganti had a reputation as a fair guy who didn’t want more than his fair share, you know, Now, when, when did that whole act start, the whole crazy act? Was there like a genesis, there was [00:13:00] a, an event, I’m not, I’m not real clear on that. Was there an event that started that whole crazy act? Yeah, he’s he’s arrested, I should start at the beginning. He for a brief time in the early 70s. He’s married, and he moves out to suburban New Jersey. He leaves the village, and while he’s there, he sends Christmas cards to the local police officers with some money inside. Not, you know, not like a thousand dollars, like five bucks. Sort of like a Christmas gift more than a bribe. But then this becomes known, and now all of a sudden, you know, there’s, there’s a whole to do. And this is, this is when Giganti first brings out the crazy act. There was a 1971 meeting where he’s going to be interviewed with a psychiatrist. And he doesn’t like ease into it, you know, he just shows up the first day with the, the, you know, [00:14:00] the whole outfit, right? The ratty bathrobe, unkempt. Unshaven. The hair is sticking up. And, and when the the psychiatrist arrives, rather than sitting there to greet him, he’s lying asleep in his bed. So that’s kind of the first incident where, where this came out, you know what I mean? And then it, then of course, it just became You know, it’s like he won the Oscar every year for best mob fake sick guy. You know what I mean? Every day he’d go out and wander the streets of Greenwich Village in his bathrobe talking to himself. Well, I mean, that’s the thing is that you know, for a guy that had so much power and, and such a long reach within organized crime especially at first. But still even later on, you know, he didn’t really get out beyond the village much. You know what I mean? His, his social club was right across the street on Sullivan street in the, in the village [00:15:00] from where his mom’s apartment was, which is where he wound up living. And so you would see him wandering the streets or you would not see him once he got inside the the triangle social club, his operation down there. And you know, it’s, it’s funny. There was, I think one of the most famous stories is he was, he was walking through Greenwich village and the, the fed showed up. You know, they’re telling him to look and he sees the agents and immediately drops to his knees and folds his hands and begins acting as if he’s praying outside the church. You know what I mean? And the other, the other great one is, of course, he’s living with his mom and the feds come to arrest him. And when they come in that house, they can’t find him and they go into the bathroom and he’s. Buck naked in the shower with the water coming down. Yeah. So, I mean, he played the role to [00:16:00] the Hilton and to the end, right? Almost to the end. Almost to the end. We’ll get to that. Yeah. Let me tell you something, Larry. There’s nothing worse than to have to wrestle around and naked guy. Not absolutely nothing worse. I’ve had to do it. There is nothing worse. I’m just going to take your word for that. Especially if it’s three o’clock in the morning, it’s about still about 95 degrees. Yeah. So, you know, it’s interesting that Genovese. You know, he was big into narcotics. That was one of his things. By now, by this time, they’re, they’re, the Genoveses are really against it. Is that what I understand? Yeah, that’s right. Chin for sure was was an anti drug guy. You know, I think at that point they were pretty much Unquestioned at the top of the mob food chain in, in New York. And there were other ways to make money. [00:17:00] You know, they, they, again, they had a lot of power. They had a lot of connections and yeah, he just decided, you know, our family is not going to get involved in this. Yeah, he’s probably smart on that. Keeps a lot of heat off. You know, they Tony Salerno, that big moneymaker, they got in the construction business. They figured out that that’s where the money was. Just like Sammy the Bull did in the in Paul Castellano did. The Gambino, they got and figured that construction business. Manhattan was a huge moneymaker. And Tony Salerno, he fell on this windows case. Do you know any much about that windows case? Yeah, the windows case was well, as it sounds, the mob had figured out a way to take over the installation of windows in city housing developments, I guess, as they were being put up and, you know, like any other mob operation, the cost of the windows went up and then they skimmed off the top and that [00:18:00] was a really, really lucrative operation for the mob. You know I mean, it was, it was, when I say like, you know, this is a big deal, we’re talking about organized crime taking a cut of, you know, every window installed in every city housing project. You know, that’s how, how deeply involved federal prosecutors said they were in this operation, you know, wow, that took a lot of organization and management and paying people off. And so, but I understand they made a ton of money out of it. I was going to say, I think it really illustrates, you know, the, the grip that, that the five families still had on, on the city at that point. And you know, it really, I guess, started with. With Rudolph Giuliani taking over as U. S. prosecutor, you know, and then trial after trial after trial, and they won, they won them all, you know, yeah, they really want them all. Yeah, the mob can’t fight the [00:19:00] wiretaps and Rico. Right, exactly. And those draconian sentences that you could get on money laundering or a Rico case, you get these, you know, 40, 50 year sentences, you could. I used to say you, you can make anybody tell on their mother when you’re, when they’re like a 60 year old guy looking at a 50 year sentence or a 30 year sentence, even it’s just, you know, before, you know, like guy said, well, I can do a trace down in my head. I can do five years, you know, easy, but not 50. Well, I mean, everything started out with you know, two counts, 20 years each. And then they went from there. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yes. I knew that. Yes. They got tough. They really got tough. So talk about this. Let’s start talking a little bit about the beginning of the end here. He goes to the penitentiary on something and he continues to run his family through his son. I think his son’s name was maybe, was it Andrew? [00:20:00] Yeah. I believe that’s right. Was he like running messages back and forth then, I guess from the Yeah, he was more of a messenger as opposed to like the head of the family, you know what I mean? Right. I I didn’t mean you sound was running, I guess, but he was right. Relaying his dad stuff. And you know, it’s funny because this, this is not how the chin ever did things, you know? There, there’s sort of a famous. Mob story where, where John Gotti tells Gigante that John Jr. has just been a maid, become a maid guy. And Gigante’s response was, I’m sorry to hear that. Yeah. You know, he did not want his family involved, but. By the time we’re in the 2000s, right? He’s, he’s in prison. He’s going to die behind prison. He’s still trying to keep some level of his fingers in, in the pie back in Greenwich Village. And you know, the game had completely changed by then, you [00:21:00] know the mob had no leverage. If the government wanted to get you, they could get you. And in this case, there was There was a young mobster, a young Genevieve mobster who would flip and and start testifying against all sorts of, of people within the family. That was kind of the first for that family. One of the first guys that flipped then sounds like. Well, I mean, yeah. He, he was one of the I guess I should say this, the core group within the Genevieve family never, you know, never Did you know what I mean? Right. There was no gravano. Or D’Arco, or, or, you know, other families had bosses who flipped and testified, right? Yeah, I’ve seen them. Yeah, there’s a perfect example. That was that Cookie Durso, I believe, was a guy that, that flipped over some kind of killing of a relative, I can’t remember the exact story on that. Yeah, give me one second here. Okay. [00:22:00] Alright, I gotta just do one thing. I apologize, my computer froze up, which I had some notes on. Okay, alright. Yeah. I see you got an Elvis Presley Boulevard sign back in the up behind you. I used to have one of those in my, when I had a house in the driveway. Elvis Presley Boulevard. I went, I went down there, God, ages ago, ages ago. Had a great time. Memphis is a great city. Oh man, my son lived there. He was with the railroad down there and I went, I don’t know how many times I was in Memphis and did everything there was to do and then some. It was a great city. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it really was. But so yeah, the. The first prosecution or the second prosecution, I should say, of, of Gigante which is where he actually was compelled in court to acknowledge that, you know, [00:23:00] the whole Bathrobe Act and the other bizarre behavior was all phonied up, you know, to avoid prison. But that was in, in a lot of ways. engendered by a guy named named cookie Durso, Michael Durso who went inside the, the family and you know, recorded, I think it’s like thousands and thousands of hours of conversations with different guys in the family, which you know, basically at some point ends up leading to You know, Giganti giving up the ghost and, and taking this second plea after his, you know, other conviction. You know, I heard a story about him after nine 11, him calling some family members and, and dropping the crazy act. And they were able to to record that and confront him with that. You heard that story? Yeah. You know you know, the prison phones are [00:24:00] obviously, and yeah, he was certainly very rational. About what was going on in his hometown from his jail cell for sure. You know, and yeah, I guess, you know, it’s, it’s sort of odd too, that that that’s the thing that after all he’d been through that, that, you know, it was this thing that got him to break character. But on the other hand, you know, we, we think of these guys as mobsters. He’s also the father, the son, he’s got siblings. His mom lives in the village, you know, which is not far away from where from where the trade center was. You know, and he was, I guess on that day, he was just another guy concerned about his family. Interesting, you know, this guy was he illustrates what, what I find fascinating about the Mafia, the, the, the Cosa Nostra American Mafia families is that they have this dual existence almost, if you will. They, they. Go home to the [00:25:00] suburbs many times, or he didn’t go to the suburbs, but, but they go home and they have these families and the families go, you know, and they show up at the kids school plays and the kids school functions. And they have Sunday afternoon dinner, a bunch of extended relatives, maybe come in just like they showed on the Sopranos and they have this life. And then they go over to the city and they have this gangster life. So it’s, it’s fascinating to me. And he was, he was really the epitome of that. He was like what you, the story you told about the his son, he told Gadi and I’m sorry that your son, you know, is now in this thing of ours. But of course then Chin does the same thing himself eventually. Right. Yeah. You know, so what are you going to do? What are you going to do? Yeah. Yeah. You know, you would think hard to figure out. Yeah. Again, you know, this is a guy who had as we discussed, said to John Gotti wouldn’t do it. Then in the end, he wound up doing it you know, just so that he could keep his piece of, of [00:26:00] the Genevieve’s family income, you know, there, there was certainly no prestige in having the title when you’re in prison. Right. Right. No, no, it’s interesting. So you were in courtroom in the courtroom the day that he had, he, I understand he had to admit out loud in court and you were in courtroom that day. Can you, can you set that scene and describe that for us? And it had to be quite a, quite a scene that day. Yeah, it was quite a scene that day. You know I think it was in 2003, April, 2003. And so at that point, you know, if you want to go back to Castellano, You know, I’d been covering, covering organized crime for a long time, you know, and you know, I’d been to different hearings and different things, but, you know, this was completely unlike anything else. There was a, there was a big buzz beforehand because the word was sort of out that he was going to be saying this. And you know, [00:27:00] of course it’s on the court calendar. So, you know, you know, that at the very least, you’re going to see him in the courtroom at this point, which was increasingly rare. His son his son Andrew was in the courtroom as well. He was being sentenced on on his own charges. But yeah, I, I mean, I saw Giganti in court before and he would do even something as subtle as this. He would act like he had a leg tremor. And so he would just, his leg would twitch the whole time, you know what I mean? As part of the sick act and a federal prosecutor once told me that Giganti was doing the twitching thing with his, with his right leg. And at some point he looked over and he was, Giganti had switched to doing it with the left leg and the prosecutor said, he told him, Hey, wrong leg, but, but yeah, on, on the day of, of when he drops the act, he comes in, he elder enters a guilty plea, he’s seen chatting with his son Andrew, he’s sipping a glass of water at the defense label table you know, he’s shaking hands and [00:28:00] greeting his lawyers you know, at one point I believe he was kind of laughing a little bit at the defense table, you know and then Judge Glasser the federal judge out in Brooklyn I asked Giganti if it was true that he had you know, for more than a quarter century done this whole thing, misleading all these doctors simply to you know, assure his continued success within organized crime. And Giganti just says, yes, your honor you know and yeah, it’s funny after all those years, that’s just how it. Comes to an end, you know, federal judge answers a question and he just says, yup, that’s right. You know, I, he he also he also, when he showed up, you know, he didn’t show up in like a suit or tie, you know, it wasn’t like that kind of thing, you know, Gotti, the dapper Don, you know, he was still you know, the hair was a little out there and he had a prison pullover shirt over a t shirt. And he I mean, he’s an [00:29:00] old man at this point. He looked he was 75, I think, and you know, he looked like he was having a little trouble getting around, walking kind of gingerly as he came into the courtroom, you know? Well, he was he was an interesting guy. How much longer did he live? I can’t remember. I want to say he died in 2005 at a prison in Texas. Oh, okay. He must not have gone to Springfield to the medical place, so. No, he just, right, he did not, I mean, you know, I guess they all have health problems, but he wound up they had Gotti, I guess, is the one I always think of who wound up in the dying in the federal. Yeah, exactly. Down Springfield. Yeah. At one time I know a guy that was down there and kind of sent him down as a little bit of punishment. There’ll be a helper down there. And he had fat Tony Salerno was down there. And what’s his lefty Rogerio was down there. Oh God. Yes. They were all dying. Of course. Yeah. . All of a sudden, I forgot his first name. Carmine Benson. Benson Gigante. God, I can’t. I don’t know why all of a sudden I lost his [00:30:00] first name. Benson Gigante. He had quite a life. He was he was the ultimate Mafia boss. It seems to me like the life of secrecy, which there any other stories you remember particularly about him that kind of struck you? Well, I mean, I remember this one. One of the things about him was that there was a lot of loyalty to the chin in his neighborhood. You know, it was a heavily Italian neighborhood. In Greenwich Village and at one point the FBI came in and they went on the roof of of one of the buildings to set up a shed where they could do surveillance. And so they go up there at night in the dark and set this thing up and disappear. And when they come back the next day, it’s just been torn apart and left in rubble up there by, by the locals. You know what I mean? You know, that’s always one of my favorite ones, you know yeah, yeah. You can’t get away with anything in those neighborhoods, those Italian neighborhoods. I know, I know you gotta be so sneaky. [00:31:00] It’s just, you’re going to be seen whenever you’re a stranger in the hood. Shall we say, yeah, I mean, he was You know, like almost like having some Hollywood star pop into your neighborhood if the Hollywood star was dressed like a bum, you know what I mean? It’s crazy. All right. Well, Larry McShane, the book is. Chin, the life and times of mafia boss, Vincent Gigante. Look for that in the show notes, guys, you need to get that book. I know there’s not much out there on the social media and the articles and stuff about Gigante because he was so secretive. And I can imagine, Larry, it was really hard to get information. Were you able to get hold of like this cookie Durso? Could you talk to him by any chance? No The guys that I talked to were mostly people who flipped like Gravano, for example. Yeah You know, or there were I mean, he, he was a guy that left behind a trail of a lot of court cases too. And I was also able, I was working at the daily news [00:32:00] to go back into the archives and find like a lot of stuff about, for example, the Costello hit. So if you did a little digging, you could come up with a lot of stuff in spite of his efforts to ensure that nobody would hear much of this stuff. Interesting. So what are you doing now, Larry? You’re retired from being a newsman. I am. Chasing down sirens and ambulances, trying to get a story, running the scenes of mob hits. I’m trying I’m trying to finish up another mob book on the Colombo Family War of 1991 through 93, which was kind of New York’s last big mob war. Yeah a little something, not much. I have to get you back on for that when you get that book out. Let me know. Oh yeah, I’ll let you know for sure. I’ll let you know for sure. It’s my deadline is coming up, so. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. You know, but it’s been good. I, I, Vic Arena, who was the was the acting boss in one of the, the head of one of the [00:33:00] two families in this war his two sons are kind of cooperating and helping me with the book. So yeah, so far, so good. Hopefully I’ll get it done. And yeah, I’ll let you know. I’d love to come back on. Thank you so much for having me. All right. Well, thanks a lot for coming on. Larry, you you are one of the I don’t know, to me, you know, like one of the big names in this business, you got to get some bigger names. I had Gus Russo on one. See, there you go. I’m talking about like, like people that really take a legitimate. You know, newsman’s look at the mob, you know, kind of the whole thing, not just some guy that’s telling his personal life story from his, from his view, making himself look good. Look how generous and confident I was when I killed this guy all right. Well, guys, don’t forget, check the show notes. For links to get this book, you need to get this book. And don’t forget, I like to ride motorcycles. So watch out for motorcycles when you’re out there on the [00:34:00] streets. And if you have a problem with PTSD, you’ve been in the service. Be sure and go to the VA website and get that hotline number. Or if you happen to have a problem with drugs or alcohol, you don’t have to be in the former serviceman to get some help and. Former Gambino soldier, Anthony Ruggiano has a hotline number on his website and he’s a drug and alcohol counselor down in Florida. So maybe you could have Anthony Ruggiano be your drug and alcohol counselor. If you have a problem, let me know. If you do that, I’d really like to hear that story. I won’t reveal your name. I promise. So be sure and like, and subscribe and. Tell your friends about the show and share on social media and all those kinds of things. So thanks a lot, guys.

The post Beneath the Bathrobe: The Dark World of Vincent Gigante appeared first on Gangland Wire.

Gangland Wire host, retired Detective Gary Jenkins, reports on the life and legacy of Sam Mooney Giancana, a prominent figure in the Chicago outfit and the mafia world. Giancana’s enigmatic nature and shadowy dealings are explored, tracing his journey from a member of the 42 gang to the pinnacle of the Chicago outfit. Known for his ruthlessness and criminal prowess, Giancana’s rise in the criminal underworld during the Prohibition era is detailed, showcasing his involvement in illegal activities like gambling, liquor distribution, and political rackets.

The host sheds light on Giancana’s connections with influential figures like Al Capone, his alleged role in John F. Kennedy’s presidential victory, and his entanglement with the CIA in plots to assassinate Fidel Castro. The interview further brings to light Giancana’s partnership with Richard Cain, a corrupt law enforcement officer turned mob associate, expanding their operations to include gun smuggling, espionage, and international intrigues.

The narrative takes a dark turn as Giancana’s mysterious death in 1975 is analyzed, with several theories suggesting mob involvement, internal power struggles, and CIA conspiracies behind his assassination. The interview speculates on potential conspirators, including Tony Accardo, Santo Trafficante Jr., and even the CIA, reflecting the convoluted web of betrayal, power dynamics, and covert operations that characterized Giancana’s tumultuous life.

Ultimately, Sam Giancana’s legacy endures as a symbol of the murky intersections between crime and espionage, leaving behind a trail of unsolved mysteries, political entanglements, and violent retribution. The host encourages engagement from listeners, offering insights into mob history, sharing anecdotes, and inviting discussion on the complex and intriguing world of organized crime. Support the Podcast Subscribe to get new gangster stories every week.

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Transcript [0:00] Hey, all you wiretappers out there, back here in the studio of Gangland Wire. You know, I’m doing these little kind of short, down-and-dirty bios of major mob guys, because I got to realizing that everybody doesn’t know all the details that maybe I know or that I’ve read about. I know a lot of you guys know a lot of stuff. A lot of you know a lot more than I know. But everybody doesn’t know everything about all these different guys. And I may mention the name, you know, Tommy Lucchese, Three Finger Lucchese. You might mention Vito Genovese or just, you know, Genovese, the Genovese family. So putting out these shorties to say this is who these guys are is bonus episode. So today I’m going to deal with the life and legacy of Sam Mooney Giancana, unveiling the enigma. And he was an enigmatic figure, which I think means I’m using that $25 word there, aren’t I? Which I think means he was kind of a shadowy character, kind of hard to understand, had a lot of secrets. And he did. You know, he like went to Mexico for quite a while. He had business interest all around the world and gaming in casinos and gambling. And he wouldn’t share some of that, which some of that came back to bite him, I think, in the end.

[1:14] But he was born in 1908, May 24th in Chicago. He was he was a Chicago outfit guy. And he starts out. his journey into the crime world as a teenager in the 42 gang. Now, they say it wasn’t because they lived on 42nd Street. It was because it was Alibaba and the 40 Thieves. And with Alibaba, that made 41. And then so they wanted to say they had 42 members in their gang. So they called themselves the 42 gang. That’s a good story, isn’t it? Giancana’s Rise in Chicago Outfit

[1:45] But he’s going to go to the pinnacle of the Chicago outfit, but it’s a long tail woven throughout with intrigue, power, and a lot of clandestine activities, including stuff with the CIA. So as a young man, Giancana’s proudness as a getaway driver and a lethal force, I mean, he was a guy that would kill without hesitation.

[2:09] Earned him a reputation in a 42 gang that caught the attention of the Capone group, of course. And Capone was the man during that time. These were the young Turks and Capone was a guy running everything in Chicago. So they started taking a Cardo. He came out of the circus gang, Giancana and a couple others. I can’t remember their names came out of the 42 gang.

[2:31] But by the end of Prohibition in the 1930s, he was seamlessly integrated into the criminal web of the Chicago outfit. And they controlled all the illegal gambling and liquor distribution during Prohibition. They had gotten their clutches into any liquor distribution. Prohibition’s over. They’re not going to let that go. And political rackets. And they also had stuff going down all the way down the Midwest, Kansas City, and then down into Louisiana. Indiana. Giancana, he had a knack for finding profit centers for the outfit. He knew he could smell money. So during the 50s, they didn’t pay much attention to the South Side, to the Black community. There were Black gangsters earning huge sums from the lottery.

[3:17] Gen Cana befriended one of these guys and learned the business and then pretty soon forced him to retire. And then this This guy just said, OK, and he left the city. Well, there was another black policy baron named Theodore Rowe who then moved in on this black group that Jen Cannon was trying to take over. And they started a war. And Teddy Rowe would not back down. He would not back down. They had a shootout. I believe he shot and killed Johnny Roselli’s brother or another guy. Anyhow, he shot and killed one of the major mob guys brothers in a shootout. And but by the end, policy baron Theodore Rowe, Teddy Rowe, is killed.

[4:01] Sam Giancana will rise to the top of the outfit. And in 1957, he becomes the out front boss as Accardo, who has really been the boss since after the war. He and Paul The/Waiter Ricca had been the boss and Accardo had been kind of out front. Like now Sam Giancana is going to be out front. Cardo is going to take a step back. He still maintained a lot of power and a lot of say-so. Intrigue and Plots Unravel

[4:29] Now we’ll get up into the 60s. Here’s where we get into this intrigue and these different plots that are going on. There are whispers that Giancana had something to do with John F. Kennedy’s 1960 presidential victory and by getting out the vote for him in Chicago. Well, I never did buy that story particularly particularly because they could get out the Democrats were going to win in Chicago anyhow. So I don’t really understand that, but a lot of people say that Giancana believes that his influence put Kennedy over the top and handed him the presidential victory. There might be more to that story. Many claim that the mafia then would guide the political fate of any major candidate during those years.

[5:16] And also during the 1960s, Giancana became entangled with the CIA or the Central Intelligence Agency because they were frantically trying to kill Fidel Castro and their own little plots and plans with their own people was not coming to fruition, was not working. You know, they got hold of Santo Trafficante Jr., who was the mob boss down in Tampa, and Carlos Marcelo, who was down in New Orleans because they had a lot of connections to Cuba. And then JFK gets assassinated about this time. And as we all know, there’s tons of information out there that link Traficante and Carlos Marcelo to the murder of JFK. And this is all back to Cuba, the failed Bay of Pigs operation that Kennedy, like Kennedy, let him down. You know, it really is complicated. Well, also during this time, to keep it going.

[6:11] Giancana takes in a guy named Richard Cain, who is a Chicago, actually a Cook County deputy sheriff, had been a Chicago policeman. He was just corrupt as heck. And he was really the bag man for the outfit at one time to carry bribes back to sheriff’s detectives, to the sheriff’s office, was vice squad and different people on the Chicago Police Department. He also had a connection to the CIA. This is already, you know, web of different connections. And here we’ve got Richard Cain moving in. He’s side by side with Sam Giancana. His connections expanded way beyond the outfit and the outfits, gambling and smuggling operations. He really expanded out. He was involved with some the training of the Cuban people for the Bay of Pigs. He was involved in smuggling operations down through Central America, down to Panama, gambling in Iran, gambling casinos. He was Giancana’s man on a lot of that. Giancana got action out of this. When they engaged in activities that transcended conventional organized crime, Sam Giancana and Richard Cain, they got approached to do different things and probably had something to do with some of this. Some of it’s rumor, there was armed smuggling to the Middle East for the Israeli Mossad. And that went through Ponant Panama. That was their connections down to Panama. Intersection of Mafia and CIA

[7:36] The mafia and intelligence community really intersected when this plot came out to kill Castro. Richard Cain was all entangled in the middle of that. And Giancana supposedly made a claim that, yeah, he could get that done.

[7:52] Never did seem to get it done, but this was an elusive kind of a legacy that Giancana has left, one of the many elusive legacies that he’s left when being tied up with Richard Cain. Their partnership really exemplifies the blurred lines between crime and espionage, and you have to wonder what their influence was. What was the outfit’s influence on historical events? You know, the murder of JFK, the attempted assassination of Fidel Castro, smuggling guns for the Mossad through Panama and that kind of a thing. And these are really murky waters because you can’t nobody can find out about this intelligence stuff because it’s probably it’s going to be classified forever. And a lot of it they don’t ever write down. They just, you know, do it and go on. They also had, you know, he had promised he would eliminate Castro. And, you know, he was having an affair with a woman named Judith Exner, and she was having an affair with JFK at the same time. So now we got him back to JFK this course before he’s killed. So it’s all, I tell you, he is an enigma. He truly is. His aunt was an enigma. They had a grand jury going. In 1965, there was a grand jury going, trying to find out about this whole mob and Castro, killing Castro.

[9:12] And there was a church committee trying to see the intelligence abuses of the 60s and 70s. And of course, he wouldn’t talk. Giancana’s Return and Subsequent Events

[9:21] He left town. He went to Mexico. Mexico Richard Cain became this guy that would carry messages back and forth between Mexico and the United in Chicago Aiuppa Joey Dove’s Aiuppa will rise to be the out front boss while and Giancana is in Mexico and he gets called just before 1975 sometime in 1975 he comes back to the United States and he’s kind of trying to he’s making some moves to Two. To maybe move back into the outfit he’s been gone for a long time he’s also been subpoenaed to appear before what was known as the church committee and one night June the 19th 1975.

[10:05] There’s a lingering mystery from that that there’s been theories all swirling everywhere all around when that night somebody with a 22 caliber silenced pistol put several rounds in the back of Sam Giancana’s head as he was bending over a stove, cooking sausages and peppers. And there’s all kinds of mysteries and all kinds of whispers about this. Many, a lot of speculation. Most people agree that that night, one of the first mysteries, most people agree that night that police were usually outside Giancana’s house, kept him under constant surveillance.

[10:45] Surprisingly, the night that he was killed, the police were missing. One theory is Tony Accardo, who is now the outfit boss above, actually above Joey Aiuppa. So Aiuppa would have had a part in this. You don’t kill somebody like Sam Giancana without everybody agreeing, even maybe calling back to or going back to New York to the commission and getting their approval, laying out your case and getting their approval. Accardo really had been the one that sidelined him and made him go to Mexico. Or maybe he went on his own. See, we don’t really know for sure. A lot of speculation here. Mob politics often involves high stakes movements and things you don’t understand because they’re doing one thing over here to keep your attention from over there. And you got all these eyes on them and informants in them and newspaper men frantically trying to find out what’s going on and keeping making book on them, as we say, keeping everything they write down and they do in the book and then putting it together from a historical perspective, maybe in a year. So he was making these strategic maneuvers to get him back in. There’s also grudges in the underworld. You know, he probably stepped on some toes. That might have been an unsettled score.

[11:59] Now, one of the most talked about stories maybe is that Tony Spilotro did this because he lived close by. They claimed that he could walk over to Gen Conner’s house, kill him, walk back, and they found the gun along what might be that path. Giancana had had a little party earlier that evening. There’s a guy named one of his old compadres, Dominic Butch Blossie, was there at that party. Most serious students of the Chicago outfit, I think, will agree that his old friend and longtime associate, Dominic Butch Blossie, shot Giancana that night. The Ocardo story really came from a corrupt police chief that another mob guy went to right after this happened and said, you know, I think the old man really liked Tony Spilotro, kind of laying it out between the lines like they do. He said, you know, the old man really likes Spilotro. And so then this corrupt chief of police knows what his part of this is to then go around and spread the rumor that Tony Spilotro did it.

[12:59] Butch Blasi had been at this party earlier in that evening, and the story goes, and it’s been reported by decent sources, that he left and then came back. Giancana was in this downstairs kitchen that night and cooking up some sausage and peppers for whatever reason late at night, shot him in the back of the head, got back in his car and left. And, you know, one thing we can’t agree on, there wasn’t any surveillance out there that night. Now, there’s an outfit member named Nicholas Calabrese who was in the family secrets trial for his brother, Frank Calabrese, senior. And that whole crew that he ran had been killing a lot of people in Chicago.

[13:36] He claims that Anthony Asscardo was part of this killing. He doesn’t really get in any more details, but he did claim that Capo Angelo La Pietra is one that got rid of the gun and the silencer after the murder, which doesn’t make sense. I mean, what do you do? Just go out and throw it along the side of the road? I mean, Blasey threw it out along the side of the road. That’s a deal with a mob murder. You do the killing, and as soon as you get away from the scene, you get rid of that gun. You know, make sure it’s clean of prints, and you get rid of a gun. You know, today, they don’t do that. Probably they make sure they melt it down and throw it in a river or something because of DNA. But back then, DNA was not a thing. All you needed was to get your fingerprints off of it. But Nick Calabrese claimed that his brother, Frank Calabrese, and a guy named Johnny, Ronnie Jarrett, which was part of their crew, made the suppressor. And they probably were making, you know, we served a search warrant on our guy, Tuffy DeLuna’s house here in Kansas City. And we found plans on how do you make a sound suppressor for a .22 caliber pistol. So I don’t know. I’m going with Butch Blasi. Your close friend is the one that’s going to do it, is pretty much…

[14:43] Tried-and-true theory. There is another kind of far-out theory that mob boss Santo Traficante Jr. From Tampa ordered his murder because he was afraid that Giancana was going to testify about the mob’s involvement in CIA plots to kill Castro, and Traficante was probably even more involved in this plot, but I don’t buy that either. If he had done it, it had got permission from Accardo and Aiuppa. But Giancana’s murder did coincide with the discovery of the decomposing remains of Johnny Rosselli, who was another outfit guy that was involved in this plot to kill Castro. He’d been shot and chopped up and put in an oil drum and dumped just off the coast of Florida, close to Miami.

[15:29] And most suspect that Traficante took care of that murder for him. Although it was a Chicago guy and they could easily send, you know, somebody like Frank Sweese down there to take care of that one or that any one of the, a number of other guys could go down to Florida and catch Roselli and catch him unawares and do him in. So I’m not sure if that would even be true or not. The Enigma of Sam Giancana

[15:51] The really far-fetched story is that the CIA directly had one of their agents kill Giancana because they didn’t want him talking about, you know, his links to the agency. But, you know, I don’t think they really ever had the guts to do anything like that. And of course, they do not have any knowledge of it. They’ve been under such a microscope off and on over the years that nothing officially has ever come out or even close.

[16:16] He was connected to him he was involved in the kill castro plots he was involved in a lot of stuff with him down there in that area but i i just don’t believe they did it the enigma of sam Giancana endures way beyond his death and and to this day you know leaves us to ponder these intricate threads of betrayal and international intrigue and gun running and killing political political enemies of the United States and power struggles within the Chicago outfit and different alliances within the outfit that he maybe made as he was trying to come back. And Richard Cain, his buddy, got killed, was a victim of, he was in a restaurant in Chicago and three guys came in. I think one of them they claimed was Harry Aleman. They were outfit killers. And you would have had to have been an outfit killer to do Richard Cain. But anyhow, they came in and And lined everybody in the restaurant up against the wall like they were going to do a hold up. And then one of them shot him right in the face with a shotgun and left everybody else standing there. Didn’t try to rob the place. Had a getaway car waiting right outside. You know, this is the life of Sam Giancana. So next time you hear me talk about Mooney or Sam Giancana or Giancana in another story, you’ll know a lot more about our friend Sam Mooney Giancana. So thanks a lot, guys. Guys, don’t forget to watch out for motorcycles when you’re out there. And if you have a problem with PTSD and you’ve been in the service, be sure and go to that VA website.

[17:45] And if you have a problem with drugs or alcohol, our friend Anthony Ruggiano, former Gambino man, is a drug and alcohol counselor down in Florida. And he has on his website, he has a hotline number or his YouTube page. Just Google or noodle around and find Anthony Ruggiano and you’ll find it. But be sure to like and subscribe and maybe give me a review if you’re on the app, on the audio app. Give me some comments. You got any ideas for stories? You want any particular mob boss you want me to cover pretty quick? And one of these shorties, why make a comment on the YouTube special? I really see those. And we’ve got our Facebook page, a gangland wire podcast group.

[18:24] I’ve got a page too, but that’s not quite the same. The group is a little more intimate. There’s a lot of activity on the group. So there’s a lot of interesting comments. So if you get on the group, be sure and scroll down and look at some of the different comments. You’ll see people arguing about things, and you’ll see people that are really connected to real-life mobsters back in the day, and you’ll see people telling stories. We’ll put up a picture of a restaurant or a bar that a lot of mob guys went to, and you’ll see people telling stories about, you know, what they remember about that place. So it’s really been an interesting, fun way to, you know, keep up with this mob history and help people experience, you know, relive the good old days, as we say, you know, as coppers get together and we tell stories about the good old days. Of course, we’re always much braver and better and faster and cooler than it really was back then. But, you know, that’s how it is. So thanks a lot, guys.

The post Underworld Enigima: Sam Giancana appeared first on Gangland Wire.

Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. Gary and his regular contributor, Australian lawyer and mafia researcher Tony Taourk look into the intriguing story of Robert Simone, a Philadelphia lawyer with deep ties to the mob. We learn that he was born in South Philadelphia in 1933, and Simone’s career took a dramatic turn when he defended showgirl Lillian Rees in 1961. Rees was charged in connection with the theft of half a million dollars from a wealthy Pennsylvania millionaire. Despite his limited experience in criminal law at the time, Robert Simone overturned Rees’ conviction on appeal, gaining attention in the media and among criminals alike. Simone’s involvement with Rees also led him to cross paths with mobsters, as Rees’ boyfriend and co-defendant was a mobster himself. Simone’s heavy gambling and drinking habits further connected him to the mob, as he often frequented bars where he encountered mobsters and borrowed money from mob loan sharks. One such loan shark, Frank Sindone, recommended Simone to other mobsters and eventually became Simone’s client in a successful acquittal for loan sharking charges. Simone’s reputation grew within the criminal underworld, and he attracted the attention of Roofer’s Local 30, a corrupt union that provided him with a steady stream of criminal cases. He also represented John McCullough, the head of the union, who was later murdered on the orders of the Philadelphia mob. Simone’s big break came when he represented mob boss Nicky Scarfo in a murder trial. The government charged Scarfo, along with his nephew, Phil Leonetti, and another mobster with the murder of a cement contractor. Despite the testimony of an eyewitness, Simone’s skills as a lawyer shone during this trial, showcasing his ability to sway jurors and play mind games in the courtroom to achieve a not-guilty verdict. Despite his success in defending Scarfo, Simone’s ties to the mob ultimately led to his downfall. He was disbarred 1989 for his involvement in a money-laundering scheme with Scarfo and other mobsters. Simone’s story is a cautionary tale of the dangers of getting too close to the criminal underworld. Support the Podcast Subscribe to get new gangster stories every week.

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Transcript [00:00:00] Welcome back in the studio of Gangland Wire. Good to be back here with you guys. I have our good friend from down under, Tony Taouk. Welcome, Tony. Thank you for having me, Gary. Oh, as you guys know, Tony is our expert on mob lawyers. We have done God. How many have we done now, Tony? We’ve done Goodman and who else have we done? Roy Cohen, Well, it’s coming out. It’s coming out. We’re recording this guys today, January the what? The third or the fourth and Corsak is coming out in two weeks. It’ll be out. I think a week from this Monday, I believe I’d have to look. I know. I just put it in to released so I can stay about two or three weeks ahead. Anyhow, Corsak, Sydney Corsak. Frank Regano. Oh, Regano. Yeah. From Traficante down in down in Florida. So good. Yeah. Well, we’re moving right on through them, Tony. We’re going to be through them all one of these days. Oh, Cutler. We did Bruce [00:01:00] Cutler. And see. I don’t know what we’ve got left after this. There’s some more guys out there. There’s kind of boring guys out there. They’re back in New York, I know. There’s a lot, but they’re not, nobody is as colorful as these guys. These are the colorful ones, which is, that’s what we like is a colorful ones, right? They’re dying. Great. Yeah. Colorful people are a dying breed. It seems to me like any more like your sports figures buried cell once in a while, somebody I get in trouble, but not like they used to. And you know other personalities, they used to get in a lot more trouble than they do now. Everybody’s a lot more cautious now. Now they want us to have to make something up to make it look like somebody did something wrong or got them in trouble. Anyhow, today we’re going to talk about Robert Simone. He was a Philadelphia guy, Philadelphia lawyer, and I had kind of a little personal connection myself to one of those cases, which we’ll talk about later. But Robert [00:02:00] Simone, Tony, how did he get started in this mob lawyer business? Well, he was born in, excuse me, he was born in, Simone was born in South Philadelphia in 1933. He got his law degree from Temple University Law School and he became a lawyer in 1958. His big break as a lawyer came in 1961 when he defended a colourful showgirl called Lillian Rees. When she was charged in connection with a theft of around half a million dollars from the home of a wealthy Pennsylvania Colmogile. Funnily enough, Risa only retained Simone because she could no longer afford her original lawyer for her second trial because her first trial ended with a hung jury. Now at this point in his career, Simone was only about 28 years old and he was mainly doing civil cases. And he had hardly any experience in criminal law, so I don’t know why she would take that risk, but she did. He represented her in [00:03:00] her second trial, which ended with a conviction. However, he managed to overturn the conviction on appeal. She probably hired him because he was cheaper than anybody else. That would be my bet on that. He’d been a civil lawyer. They wanted to get in criminal law. Probably saw this as maybe something he could Parlay into something because it’d get headlines and get publicity out of it. I had a friend that did a murder case here in Kansas city when he was a young lawyer and he got a not guilty on the murder case. And they, cases started flooding into his office after that. So that is not lost on people out there. And you get some headlines and you get, especially if you get a win, but any kind of headlines interesting. So how did he get involved with the mob? That’s a long ways from this woman. Yes. Can you just repeat that? I want to go get some water. I’ll be back. Okay. Okay. Repeat that question. Okay. I will when you get [00:04:00] back. Sorry about that. I just keep coughing. I don’t know what’s wrong with me. Yeah. Yep. So just ask me again. How did you get involved? Yes. So Tony, how did he get involved with the mob? It’s kind of a far step from this gal here and getting involved with the mob in Philadelphia. Well, the Lillian Rees case generated a lot of media coverage because she was so colourful. So, Simone, as you said before, became a familiar figure in local papers. Criminals tend to flock to lawyers who appear in the newspapers thinking they’re better than other lawyers. I don’t know if that’s always the case. But anyway, another reason was Reece’s boyfriend and co defendant in the case was a mobster. So he obviously witnessed first hand Simone’s legal maneuvers and probably recommended him to other mobsters. But there’s also another reason, Simone was a heavy gambler, a heavy drinker and a compulsive gambler. [00:05:00] So he inevitably stumbled across mobsters at bars and he borrowed money from mob loan sharks when he ran out of money. As compulsive gamblers do. One of the loan sharks that Simone borrowed money from was a guy called Frank Sindone, a senior figure in the Philadelphia mob. When Sindone was charged with loan sharking, Simone represented him and managed to get him acquitted by discrediting the FBI agents responsible for the investigation. Soon thereafter, he attracted the attention of a powerful and corrupt union called Rufus Local 30s. Now that union, its rank included a lot of tough men who always get into trouble with the law, and that gave him a stre steady stream of criminal cases. Now, the head of that union, John McCullough, who Simone also represented at one stage, he would later be murdered on the orders of the Philadelphia mob. What was the name of that union again? Ruffer’s Local [00:06:00] 30. Oh, Ruffer’s Local. Okay, I couldn’t understand that first word. Alright interesting. The Ruffer’s Union. Well, those mobsters, they’re not, they don’t care what union it is, if they can get involved in it. It’s the Labor’s Union in St. Louis, the Teamsters Union in Chicago and Detroit, and so they’re not really Picky as long as they get involved with with a union. So that would have set him on the on the path. I see right now how he got into an interesting, you know, kind of a parallel is a guy named Bob Cooley. He went in witness protection eventually and testified a lot against a lot of guys in Chicago. That was his deal. He was a heavy drinker and a gambler and a partier, and, and pretty soon he’s on the hook for money and, and pretty soon they’re using him for whatever they can use him for. So it, it sounds, I bet he carried a lot of money to judges and, and help bribe jurors and stuff too. So, Nicky Scarfo is going to come along. And now, did he do any work for the General Don, for Angelo Bruno? Personally, do you [00:07:00] remember? Not that I’m aware of. Okay. But he became acquainted with him at the acquittal. I believe he received a call from him. And he, he, he met him around that time. Now the Sedona Quiddle really boosted his stature in the Philadelphia underworld, as you’d expect. And eventually he caught the attention of Nicky Scarford, the man destined to become the head of the Philadelphia Mob, and ultimately the man most responsible for its downfall. In 1979, an Atlantic City cement contractor called Vincent Falcone was lured by Scarfo and some henchmen to a house in Margate, New Jersey. And they shot in the back of the, they shot him in the back of the head as he was preparing some drinks in the kitchen. Apparently Scarfo immediately ordered Falcone’s execution when he heard that he was talking trash about him behind his back. As we all know, it didn’t take much for Scarfo to pass a death sentence. Now, [00:08:00] a plumber called Joseph Salerno, he wasn’t a mobster, he was at the scene and witnessed the hit. In fear for his life, he became a witness for the prosecution. Scarfo and his nephew, Phil Leonetti, and another mobster were charged with murder. Simone was retained to act as lead counsel in that trial. It was Bobby Simone at his absolute best as a lawyer. He was great on his feet and he was a brilliant cross examiner. He also was an excellent courtroom tactician with exceptional, with an exceptional ability to play mind games with the jurors. For example, during the murder trial, Joseph Salerno testified that a big Black Cadillac was parked adjacent to the house at the time of the murder. However, a local police officer testified that he was in the area for about 20 minutes around the time Salerno alleged that the murder occurred, and he said that he didn’t see a big black Cadillac parked next to the house.[00:09:00] Now, I wouldn’t be surprised if the policeman was on Scarface payroll, but that’s another issue. Now, it’s a very shrewd move. Simone insisted that the defendants who were Scarfo, Leonetti, and another guy, I think it was Merlino, that they arrived every day at the courthouse in the same big black Cadillac, in full view of the jurors. The purpose was to emphasize that it would have been impossible for The police officer to miss such a big car. And if it had indeed been parked next to the house when the murder occurred. Now when it came to cross examination he conducted it, Simone conducted it in a way that was like boxing where it’s all about rhythm and wearing down your opponent. Simone had the chief witness Salerno admit under cross examination. that he was on the verge of bankruptcy and insinuated that he had entered the witness protection program to avoid paying the many creditors that were after him. [00:10:00] Salerno even admitted to borrowing money from the murder victim Vincent, Vincent Falcone and struggling to pay it back, giving him a clear motive to commit the murder and then blame it on someone else. Simone successfully cast Salerno The government witness as the real villain taking the focus of his client Salerno Salerno was also a arm wrestling champion and he admitted under cross examination to Simone that he had the strength to pick up carry and roll the victim’s body into the trunk of the car where it was later found. All three defendants were acquitted and Robert Simone became a superstar in the Philadelphia Underworlds. Yeah, I bet, I bet, because guys, this Salerno, the plumber, he actually wrote a book, I think it’s called The Plumber, he wrote it with somebody else. He’s still out there somewhere, by the way. I tried to send a message to find somebody that could find him. And a guy told me he’d see if he could and nothing ever came back. [00:11:00] But this Salerno, he was just a hang around guy. I read the book and I talked to a policeman that was involved in that case back during those times, during that time, because I had read the book. And you know, he was just a hang around guy. I and. Nobody understands why they allowed him to be at that house when they killed that guy Falcone. It just is beyond belief that they would allow basically a civilian who was unsteady at the time. I mean, he was a heavy drinker and a gambler himself at the time. And you know, why they let him be a witness, I don’t know. Because he was definitely a weak sister in that deal. I met this one prosecutor’s investigator for Atlantic City, and he was part of the babysitting crew that guarded Salerno during the trial and everything. And he said, you know, he was, he was pretty shaky, but you know, he, he wasn’t really that shaky on the stand, but you know, probable cause, I mean, a probable cause, reasonable doubt. Guys. All you need is just a scintilla, [00:12:00] just any kind of reasonable doubt that a jury can kind of hang his hat on that peg of reasonable doubt that, you know, he lied about the car being there, he was strong enough to do this, he had a motive himself to do this, you know, that would be enough to do a not guilty. So it’s a pretty interesting case, I thought, and I didn’t really realize it. That Simone really earned his bones, if you will, with the mob with this one case, but I can see why that was, that was a hell of a victory, wouldn’t you agree? Yeah, it was. It was quite good. And as a result of that Simone went on to defend Scarfo in numerous trials in the 1980s and over time they became good friends. And as a result, he was often turned up in surveillance footage, socializing with Scarfo and his cronies. And you have to remember, during Scarfo’s reign as the boss of Philadelphia, the bodies were piling up everywhere. Scarfo would pass a death sentence for the slightest infraction, real or imagined. Scarfo and anyone associated with him were full time [00:13:00] targets of law enforcement throughout the early to mid 1980s. And then, surprise, surprise, in 1984, Simone was indicted for tax evasion. Yeah. I tell you what, that’s the go to, that is the go to. If you can’t get them on anything else, you can get them on tax evasion. Going back to the days of Capone, yeah. Yeah, really. Yeah. The government alleged that he’d hidden assets and avoided payment of nearly 1 million in taxes. He’d lodged his tax returns, he just hadn’t paid them. You don’t usually get prosecuted for that. Apparently, Oh, really? He had filed his returns, but he just didn’t pay the money. That’s a civil case. It at the best. Crazy. It must have been simple where they could prosecute him for it. I’m not, I’m not familiar with tax laws in the United States. Well, that’d be a civil case. I promise you it’s the hiding of it. You know, if he put it on paper that I, yeah, I earned this money and I owe you this money and then just not pay it. That’s a civil case. He’ll come [00:14:00] after me, sue me. I’ll file bankruptcy, you know that’s the way to prosecute him. When he went on trial, he admitted he was a compulsive gambler and he said that he owed money to loan sharks and the IRS. And he thought the safer option would be to pay the loan sharks. Really? I have to agree with you on that one. Surprisingly, he decided to represent himself in the trial. Oh, really? And that was in the face of everything lawyers are taught. Yeah. He attacked the government for motives and methods and going after him and invading his privacy. Now, this is actually quite funny. To emphasize the invasion of privacy, He played to the jury, there was a popular song at the time, it’s called Somebody’s Watching Me by Rockwell. He played it to the jury and he suggested that the government, which he kept calling Big Brother during the trial, wasn’t interested in recovering the taxes he owed, [00:15:00] they just wanted him to stop practicing law and defending his colourful clients. After a three week trial, the jury was out for only 20 minutes and they found him not guilty. So much for the popular saying a lawyer who represents himself as a fool for a client. Yeah, he even won his own case. That’s pretty, that’s really pretty damn good actually. Especially when you got the government after you. These guys, they don’t realize what, when you bring the resources of the federal government, when you stand up in front of that judge and you hear the United States government versus Tony Taouk versus Gary Jenkins. When you hear that, you ask anybody that’s had to stand in front of a judge and hear that read out loud, just go, Oh no, because the resources are vast. And those U S attorneys are smart. They’re not, they’re not public defenders. They’re the best of the best out of law school. So it’s he did a heck of a job. They’re very, very [00:16:00] interesting guy. You know I noticed over my career. We’d have somebody that would defend mobsters continually, and among people that investigate the mob, you start getting this kind of a feeling start finding anything that makes it look like they must be part of it, and, and you start looking for ways to make them part of it in order to put a case on them because we don’t, you know, I found being, finally becoming a lawyer after being a policeman, I find that You just represent people, but law enforcement tends to think because you’re representing them that you must be part of it. And, and you know, being a lawyer yourself that you don’t have to be part of it to get put on a good vigorous defense. They just feel like that. I mean, we had in Kansas city, we had a Nick Civella. His lawyer was this John Patrick Quinn, and they used his office to do phone calls because he wasn’t ever in it. Or at least very much [00:17:00] unless you had a big case going they used his office to discuss the skim I got a bunch of wiretaps or bugged micro the microphone transcripts and wiretaps to from where they called out and they get calls in they felt like they were safe. At the lawyer’s office, found out they weren’t so safe, but you know, you, everybody thinks at the time that was John Patrick Quinn. He must be part of it, but, but he never was. He wasn’t even close to being part of it. So that’s I think they went after Oscar Goodman and some form trying to, to put a case on him. Well, I know they did out in Las Vegas, the FBI sent an undercover agent in with Somebody, I don’t think it was Oscar Goodman wrote about, or John Smith wrote about it in his book of mice and men sent this agent in asking for a defense. I think Frank Cullotta or maybe Tony Spilotro himself brought Brought him in himself and, and he was trying to get Oscar Goodman to implicate [00:18:00] himself in, in whatever it was the guy was and, and Goodman was, he was smarter than that and, and he, he didn’t get involved with anybody’s crimes anyhow. He’s making enough money without doing that. It’d be stupid getting involved with their crimes and you’re making good money not getting involved with their crimes. So mob lawyers are a really interesting thing. But I think Simone was a bit silly the way he went about it. He got a little bit too close because despite his brush with that whole tax evasion saga that we just spoke about, he kept associating very closely with members of the Philadelphia Mob. Yeah, you know, I mean, socializing, holidaying with them, gambling with them, and constantly turning up on surveillance footage. And these, these guys were constantly under surveillance because people were getting killed all the time. Bodies were dropping everywhere. So it was a bit silly. And Simone didn’t even charge Scarfo fees for the extensive legal services [00:19:00] he performed for him. He would, he considered him a friend, so we didn’t see the need to charge him. Now over time, as you’re saying the authorities formed the view that he was more than just a lawyer. He was an actual mob functionary of sorts. Now, Nick the Crow Caramandi, that was a Philadelphia mobster termed government witness. When he testified in the Salvatore Testa murder trial in the late 1980s, he said that Simone was on the verge of becoming a made member of the mob. Oh, really? Yes. But how much stock can you really put in Caramandi’s statement? Because in that trial, Caramandi couldn’t keep his facts straight. For example, he said that when he purchased the rope to bind Tester’s dead body from a certain hardware store in Philadelphia, it turned out that the owner of that hardware store never sold that kind [00:20:00] of rope. Then he said he made a phone call from a certain phone booth. Again, in Philadelphia Simone produced a statement of the owner of a cigar store where the booth was supposed to be located. And he said that the phone booth had been, had been removed from that place. At least five years before the murder. So, and unsurprisingly, Scarfo was acquitted of testis murder. Next, Scarfo and his cronies were charged with the importation and delivery of methamphetamine. However, the government couldn’t prove this because The defendants were not dealing drugs per se they were extorting money from the people who were dealing drugs. Now, I don’t, you sound very smart, these government attorneys, but why wouldn’t they just have charged him with extortion instead of drug dealing? That would have made more sense, but I don’t know. Everyone makes mistakes. Yes. On top of this, the defense managed [00:21:00] to discredit the witnesses who, quote, had violated every law and broken every commandment known to God, unquote. Scarfo and the other defendants were also included in all the charges. The government was clearly getting frustrated, so it was around this time that the federal government decided to indict Simone for racketeering and extortion, among other things, the federal government alleged that Simone was involved in a scheme by a, by the Philadelphia, about to shake down a Philadelphia, Philadelphia developer for 1 million. Prosecutors and investigators alleged that Simone had crossed the line in his association with the mobsters. He was offering way more than legal services. They said that he had become an advisor in a criminal enterprise. Now, Phil Leonetti, Scarfo’s nephew, who by now had turned government witness, corroborated earlier testimony by other mobsters that Simone was supposed to get 10 percent of the proceeds of the 1 [00:22:00] million extortion. Simone vehemently denied this. However, in 1992, he was convicted of racketeering and extortion, and he served nearly three years in a federal prison camp near Las Vegas. And he was also at the spot. So Leonetti brought him down too. I didn’t realize that. Crazy Phil. Well, that would be pretty powerful testimony, especially if if he had anything else to go to, to substantiate that, that he was, he was getting a piece of that action. If he, if he carried any messages to the extortion victim or anything, ever talked to the extortion victim, it would be, and then an insider to testify, that would, that would pretty well put you away, I would imagine. Yeah, that’d be interesting. The charge them with extortion of the drug dealers. But the problem is, then the drug dealers won’t cooperate with prosecution, so you might as well try to make a part of the the whole drug operation rather than extorting money from them. It’s a fine line. Are you [00:23:00] extorting money from them? Or are they giving you money because you’re one of their partners in that? Are they Fortune you to give money and with mob guys, you know, they’ll do that. They’ll go in and say, you know, you, you want to keep operating, give us a piece of the action. After he was released he wrote a memoir called the last mouthpiece. Yeah. I got that too. That’s a heck of a book. It’s really in detail. I’m kind of surprised. It’s an excellent book. He talks about his long And he really emphasizes that the government is abusing the system and making deals with criminal informants. He basically says that the government has created a system where a criminal can receive a get out of jail free card by testifying against another criminal. And he says that the government frees more dangerous criminals every year than defense lawyers do. Yeah. Well, you know, there’s some truth to that. I mean, I’ve seen some pretty shaky things where people will you know, we’ve got one, a guy just [00:24:00] got out on a compassionate leave. The last mob murder we had in Kansas city, a guy named Larry Strada. And there was a career criminal named Patrick McGuire who did hang out at this mob. Restaurant and bar and the guy that ran it, John Mandacina and this Larry Strada got killed. He was probably going to testify. And he was a gambler, he was a bookie, and he gets killed at his house. And this Patrick, nobody knows who does it, we know it’s a mob hit. There’s no doubt about it. And Patrick McGuire goes on and commits a bunch of other crimes. He was one of these guys that just lived to commit crimes. He went on a bank robbing spree, I think, up in the north central part of the United States. He goes to the penitentiary, well he’s in a cell with somebody, and then this guy, who he’s in the cell with, Goes to the U. S. Attorney wherever the, you know, calls them in or the FBI or whoever they called, he called them in and he said that [00:25:00] Patrick McGuire said that he killed Larry Strada and it’s because John Mandacina paid him to do it. And they went to trial on that and convicted John Mandacina and Patrick McGuire of that murder. And but everybody today. Even some in law enforcement would say, no, no, Patrick, Patrick McGuire did not kill Larry Strada. I don’t know who did, but Patrick McGuire did not. A lot of people will say that, even though it’s, it’s all done. It’s a done deal. You know, there’s no, you know, John Madacina has been convicted, gone in served like 30 years and come back out again. Patrick McGuire was already serving practically life on something else. Anyhow. So you know, I don’t know. I had one of the lawyers even tell me who did it. He said, yeah. So I’m not going to say it on air here, but yeah, so and so did it. And it was after a meeting at Grozov’s, which is a restaurant among the bosses here in Kansas city, not to the [00:26:00] one boss and under boss and a consigliere and a couple of other. Guys that were really important and they got together and they agreed that this guy, Larry Strada had to go and they sent a guy who was a made guy already out to do it, which really makes more sense. But you know, they convicted the guy just on that kind of testimony and they do it all the time. It’s I don’t know, you know, I mean, I was a policeman, I understand, you know, you do anything you can to, you know, support your case once you start going down that path. It’s a little different on the other side though, isn’t it? Yeah, very different. You kind of see the clouds from both sides now and once you become a lawyer. Eventually Simone got his law license restored, but shortly thereafter he became ill and he died in 2007. To the end. No regrets about the people defended. He, he maintained that he was targeted for successfully defending unpopular and notorious people, [00:27:00] and that he was the victim of a government vendetta. Some truth to that. But he should have, he should have kept a little more distance between him and the mobsters. Yes. Yes. I think that’s what, that’s what caused his downfall. It just got too close. Yeah, interesting. Well, anything else you think we ought to say about Robert E. Simone? I can’t really remember in the book. Did he talk much about bribing anybody, any judges or anything in his book? I can’t remember now. No, not that I recall. You would think he would have if he was really part of it like Bob Cooley. That’s, that was his main job up there in Chicago was a bag man that carried money to judges and find the policemen and potential witnesses and bribe them. But would you admit to something like that? There’s no statute of limitations on something like that. Yeah. Is there? I think it could be admitted to it because he was in witness protection because he had [00:28:00] to tell about all the crimes he committed, then he wasn’t going to be prosecuted for him. But now there’d be a statute of limitations on bribery. I think the only crime in the United States right now, there’s no statute of limitations is probably a murder and maybe some kind of sex crimes. They’ve extended those child sex crimes statute way out, but otherwise there’s statute of limitations on everything. Sooner or later you can’t be prosecuted for it for perverting the course of justice. I don’t know even that, you know, it’s still a statute on it after a period of time. He never became a government witness or he didn’t go into the witness protection program. So if he did bribe jurors or judges or whatever. I would have thought that he would have been incriminating himself. Yeah, he might, you know, he would not put that in his book. I think that’s why he’s, he’s very, he talks about his his labor maneuvers, his cross examination. Okay. [00:29:00] All right. Doesn’t talk about anything where anything of that nature. Okay. Corrupted anyone. Where’d he go to law school? I don’t remember if you said. Temple University. What temple? Oh yeah, you did say Temple University. So is that in Philadelphia? That’s in, I think it’s in Philadelphia, yeah. He’s a homegrown boy there, isn’t he? He’s from the Logan section. I’ve only passed through Philadelphia on my way to Washington D. C. so I’m not very familiar with the city. And Simone, that’s a Sicilian name. We’ve got some Simones here in Kansas City that were, have been involved. That’s a Sicilian last name. It was definitely Italian, but I don’t know if it was Sicilian, but most likely, yeah. Yeah, I think the Rigano was Sicilian too, wasn’t he? Yeah. I think his parents were from Sicily. I think that was something that we brought out about that. Well, all right, Tony, this has been great. Got anything, what else we got to say about [00:30:00] Robert F. Simone, the last mouthpiece. He was a really colorful, interesting guy. I guess it’s a cautionary tale. Don’t socialize and get on boats and all day with your murderous clients. Talks here about going to see a psychiatrist and his friend. He said he told me what I already knew. I was a compulsive gambler. Oh, I’m done gambling as well. Really, gambling gets you every time. All right, Tony. Well, I really appreciate you coming on and helping with these mob lawyers. We’ll have to plot out another one. I can’t even think what’s next, but we’ll, we’ll come up with something. I got a feeling. Now you were on another podcast. Have you been on that yet? Not yet, not yet. Not yet, okay. Well, we’ll have to mention, what’s the name of it so guys can look for that? It was members only, but he’s changed it to something else. Oh, okay. Well, [00:31:00] alright. Yeah, I’ll be going on soon. Alright, cool. So guys, don’t forget I like to ride motorcycles, so look out for motorcycles when you’re out there on the streets, and if you have a problem with PTSD and you’ve been in the service, be sure and go to the VA website and get that hotline number, and if you’ve got a problem that goes hand in hand with PTSD addiction, drugs or alcohol, a former Gambino soldier, Anthony Ruggiano, has got a You know, he works in a treatment center down in Florida. He’s got a hotline on his website and so give him a shot. If and if you do that, let me know about it. I’m curious how that went. He seemed, I interviewed him once. He’s a pretty good guy. And don’t forget to like and subscribe and share this and tell your friends about it. Go on the Facebook page, their Facebook group is up to 30, I think 37, 000 people now. A lot of great discussions, a lot of great pictures. These guys, I don’t know where they get some of these pictures [00:32:00] from. I even got an interview off of it. I had a guy named Amado, who is from Sicily. So I’ve got an interview. I haven’t put it out yet. And it might come out before this actually, but it’s, it’s really interesting. He tells about his childhood in Sicily and the mafia in Sicily. He grew up just outside of Palermo, came over when he was about 10 or 11 years old. And when he comes over, he falls right in with. Joe Massino and Sal Vitale and that Bonanno faction and, and gets involved with the lunch trucks and he has a lunch truck and, and does business with them and goes on and kind of a, a career low level mobster the rest of his life. And now he’s written a book about it. So I’ve got a, an interview with him coming up and, and I got him through our Facebook. That’s got those kinds of people coming on the Facebook page. Real mobsters on there, which is really interesting. So I suggest you get on that Facebook page and try it. And don’t forget to [00:33:00] subscribe to either the audio podcast or the YouTube channel. So you’ll get notified whenever I put a new one out. So I really appreciate y’all tuning in and Tony, I really appreciate you coming on. These, these, this series on mob lawyers has been fun. It’s something I wanted to do, and I just didn’t get the energy up to do it myself, but you’ve been a huge help for that. Thank you. Thanks a lot, Tony. Thank you Gary. Alright. See you guys

The post Philadelphia Mob Lawyer: Robert Simone appeared first on Gangland Wire.

Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. Gary looks into the intriguing life of Michael “Spider” Gianco, a real-life figure known from the movie “Goodfellas.” Born in 1954 in Brownsville, Brooklyn, Gianco was associated with the Bonanno and Lucchese families and was a Jimmy the Gent Burke protege. Referred to as Spider due to his long limbs and excellent burglary skills, Gianco was a trusted member who could climb into hard-to-reach places. He was involved in organized crime from a young age, engaging in car theft and other illicit activities. Gianco was a crucial player in a car theft and smuggling ring, specializing in stealing cars from locations like JFK long-term parking. He would deliver these cars to a junkyard in Brooklyn, where they would be sold or shipped to Haiti. Gianco made money for every vehicle he stole and was involved in various criminal activities orchestrated by Jimmy the Gent and Paul Vario. However, his relationship with fellow mobster Tommy DeSimone was strained, leading to a fatal confrontation in July 1970. During a poker game at Robert’s Lounge, DeSimone fatally shot Gianco after an argument, with Jimmy the Gent instructing DeSimone to bury the body. The murder, reminiscent of a scene from “Goodfellas,” shocked those present, and despite the body never being found, Gianco’s fate was sealed. The aftermath of Gianco’s death further illuminated the ruthless nature of organized crime, showcasing the dangers and consequences of underworld disputes. The intricacies of mob life, rule-breaking, and allegiances are dissected, leaving listeners pondering the complexities of this dark underbelly of society. Support the Podcast Subscribe to get new gangster stories every week.

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Transcript [0:00] Wiretappers out there back here in the studio of gangland wire i want to take a look at kind of a short one again here about michael spider gianco michael spider gianco his he was spider in the movie goodfellas he’s the one that joe petty character shot in the foot and then later killed when when he bucked it back up to him let’s tell you a little bit as a real guy this really happened as you know you know everything really happened in goodfellas for the most part he was you have of a young guy back then, I guess. He was born in 1954. He was killed in 1970. That tells you anything. He was from Brownsville, Brooklyn, and grew up in the neighborhood, South Ozone Park, Queens area. He was a, you know, an associate of the Bonanno family and the Lucchese family, as all those guys around in that Roberts Lounge were, and there really was a Roberts Lounge, he was a protege of Jimmy the Gent Burke, he was a guy.

[0:59] Who would go out and do stuff. He was, and what’s interesting about him, he could be trusted. He was from Italy, but he was from Sardinia, which is another island like Sicily off the coast of Italy. He was born Michael Gianfranco. He shortened it to Gianco when he got over here. And then of course, everybody became, started calling me Spider. Now, the reason they called him Spider is because he had really long arms and long limbs and he was a great burglar. where he could climb up and get into places and things like that. His family brought him over here when he was a kid. They settled in Queens. He was a runaway. He was just a bad kid growing up, as most of these guys are that end up in that life. He had some cousins from his father’s side that had gotten involved with organized crime, as a lot of young guys do in Brooklyn like that. He was a low-level associate.

[1:53] He was a good car thief also. also. He was one of these guys that knew how to steal cars. He got to know Jimmy the Gent Burke, and he got to know Jimmy the Gent Burke. Jimmy the Gent put him into the Barrio family and made him an associate because, again, he was an earner. And Paul Barrio was a member of the Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees Union, and he was hired by a bartender as a member of that union at Robert’s Lounge. A guy named, you never knew who owned that lounge was a guy named Casey Rosado. They had a restaurant named Bruno’s right there. And because of his mob connections, he didn’t have to pay his union dues. He probably wasn’t even old enough to drink when he first got that job there. By the time Spider was 16, he was probably an alcoholic, heavy, heavy drinker, just like Henry Hill and a lot of those guys are. He would become a made member because he was full-blooded Italian. And he became a made member of the Lucchese family. The Rise of Spider

[2:58] Jimmy the Gent nicknamed him Spider. He’s the one that gave him the nickname.

[3:02] Dropped out of school, of course. He spent all day at Robert’s Lounge, bartended. He collected numbers. He sold, you know, fireworks. He’s mob guys. I tell you, mob guys, if you’re listening out there, you love your fireworks. You love dealing fireworks. You love, like God, he had the free fireworks show every year. I know in Kansas City, some of the people who are involved in and around the mob have a fireworks stand. There’s a lot of money that could be made in a a firework stand in a short period of time. There must be some other scams in around it. I don’t know exactly what they were. They are. I’ve never known. He made coffee. They had a card game going in the basement, which is where he got killed. He would go down there and serve coffee and drinks to the guys down in the basement.

[3:48] When he got to be older and he could drive, he’s like a kid when he first gets started there in the Robert’s Lounge and with just like Henry Hill, really, they bring bring in these kids and groom them, bring them in, get them to do things for them. And when they got him to do the auto theft, this was during the late 60s and early 70s. They started getting these smaller, more fuel-efficient cars. And he specialized in going out to the long-term parking at JFK.

[4:16] Where they did the Lufthansa heist. It seemed to be their territory. Went out and stole cars from the long-term parking at JFK, plus the neighborhoods of Howard Beach and all around it in that area. at Ozone Park area. He would deliver these cars to the Bargain Auto Junkyard in Starrett City. Spider’s Criminal Activities

[4:35] Brooklyn on Flatlands Avenue. Any of you guys that live there in New York, after he would leave the car, they would take off the license plate, switch out the BIN number for one that would have been junked out, and now you got a new car. Either that or they would sell it for parts, depending on what they had many times his cars were stolen or were many times his cars were shipped out of new york and down to port-au-prince haiti and sold his new cars down there they had a eduardo’s sea and land services incorporated which is located in south ozone park and he’s the one that would handle that part of the auto the auto theft ring gen kanko gen gianco gianco spider gianco made a hundred bucks for every car he stole now this was actually henry hill’s chop shop and smuggling ring operation but you know jimmy the gent and paul vario got a big piece of this action all along he had kind of a hostile relationship with this tommy de simone all along it wasn’t just that one incident that popped this off he had a long-term hostile relationship like you will somebody at work you’ll have somebody that just rubs you the wrong way or you rub them the wrong way you both rub each other the wrong way we’ve all all been there he had to you know paul barrio and jimmy burke were like kind of the. Tommy DeSimone’s Influence

[6:00] The bosses and and they had to keep it under control when they were around but tommy d simone was he was he he wasn’t he he was more in and he because he had participated in other mob sanctioned murders for paul barrio and pulled off more successful crimes than gianco so he kind of in the pecking order he was on up in the thing and he was involved in the air france robbery the Lufthansa robbery, and he had a lot of praise, was really well-respected in the Lucchese family.

[6:33] Now, of course, what happened is basically what happened is what you saw in the movie. Tommy DeSimone likes to pull his gun and wave it around. He even had kind of a target practice down in the range. He had a new Colt .45 revolver, which is unusual. Those are great big guns and revolver, too. The Shooting Incident

[6:53] But and so he was jacking around and he did that he shot him in the foot and they took spider out and he saw a doctor the whole nine yards and came back with his foot all bandaged up back to work and he’s you know hustling coffees and doing things for people there the same as you know they was his name was his name michael impero impero they played the part and they did a good job i I understand. Sometime shortly after that, it’s July of 1970. We know that for sure. DeSimone, Tommy DeSimone is playing poker in the basement of Robert’s Lounge. Playing with Jimmy the Gent, Burke, and Angelo Sepp. Gianco served their players drinks, but he forgot DeSimone’s Crown Royal.

[7:39] Well, DeSimone, Tommy DeSimone was already drunk and he started berating him for it and berating him for it. And Gianco, Gianco then just turned around and said, you know, why don’t you go fuck yourself? Tommy DeSimone pulled out his Colt .45 and shot him three times in the chest. Right. You know, everybody’s sitting there just like in the movie. Everybody’s sitting there in shock. Doc, Jimmy Burke, James, Jimmy the Gent, he was enraged. And he made DeSimone do something with the body and bury him. And he buried him in an unfinished section of the basement in Robert’s Lounge. It was after this murder that Henry Hill considered DeSimone a psychopath and stayed away from him, just like in the movie. Now, they never found the body, so they must have dug it back up and reburied it or something, because they never found the body. Which is why when Henry Hill was on the Howard Stern show one time after he went into witness protection and came back out and became this kind of minor celebrity after the movie was released.

[8:43] He was on Howard Stern’s radio show one time, and Gianco’s sister called in, demanding to know from Henry Hill where the body was buried, but he never would say.

[8:52] So that might have been one that he had more of a part of than what he led on to the FBI. You don’t know. They have to admit all their crimes to the FBI. So that’s the story of Spider, Michael Gianco, who was Sardinian, came over to this country from the old country and was a made guy, supposedly. I don’t know if I buy that. I read this one place where it said he was a made guy because he was native born Italian. I don’t know if I really buy that or not, because if Tommy DeSimone, who is a made guy, if he kills another made guy, I don’t know. No, you know, the rules usually are, you know, you’re in huge trouble if you do something like that. But sometimes for a guy that’s making a lot of money and part of a crew that’s making a lot of money and this guy that he kills isn’t very important. I don’t know. What do you guys think?

[9:41] It’s, you know, never ending questions about the mob. You think you have a handle on what the rules are and who abides by the rules, then you don’t. Final Thoughts and Helpful Tips

[9:50] Then you think you do and somebody, you know, has to have, make sure they have permission permission to kill somebody then something like this happens so you just never know anyhow thanks a lot guys you know I like to ride motorcycles so don’t forget when you’re out there on the streets watch out in your cars watch out for motorcycles when you if you have a problem with PTSD and you’ve been in the service be sure and go to the VA website and get that hotline number if you have a problem with drugs or alcohol which goes hand in hand with PTSD our friend Anthony rugiano.

[10:22] Who had a social club somewhere around in this area, or his dad did. He has a, he didn’t have one. He is a counselor at an alcohol drug addiction treatment facility down in Florida. He has a hotline on his number. You could have him as your counselor, maybe. That would be cool. Don’t forget to like and subscribe. Tell your friends about us and keep coming back. Oh, and share it. Share this on your social media, too, if you think about it. I try. And check my social media page out. the gangland wire podcast facebook group we got a huge group on there almost 40 000 now and you get a lot of comments you got a lot of people on there that were connected at one time or grew up in the neighborhoods and and have a lot of make a really interesting comments about different things that are put on there sometimes there’s fights between people too but if you do get on there just remember no politics okay thanks a lot guys

The post Unmasking the Real Spider in Goodfellas! appeared first on Gangland Wire.

Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. Dive into the world of Joseph Parisi, the man who murdered Carlo Siniscalchi. Gary interviews author Nick Parisi about his book Mafia Confessions, “King of Bootlegers” Murder. This book sheds light on organized crime during the Prohibition era in the Springfield, Massachusetts, area. Nick offers a glimpse into this city’s early Italian-American criminal groups and the surrounding area and how his ancestor killed Carlo Siniscalchi, the King of the Bootleggers.”

Mafia Confessions relies heavily on the diary of the author’s ancestor, Giuseppe “Joseph” Parisi, trial transcripts, and newspaper accounts. Nick Parisi provides a rare and intimate look into the thoughts, emotions, and connections of the man who murdered Carlo Siniscalchi, who was known as the “King of the Bootleggers.” We discuss the ensuing gang war and the trial, revealing the emotional turmoil of a high-level Italian criminal.

While not a traditional biography, the book focuses on Parisi’s murder trial rather than his entire life story. The author highlights the challenges of balancing Parisi’s criminal past with the audience’s empathy, akin to rooting for a criminal in “The Shawshank Redemption.”

Mafia Confessions fills a void in organized crime literature, particularly Springfield’s criminal history. The author emphasizes the importance of familial connections and heritage in understanding the rival factions and the impact of murders and revenge. Mafia Confessions’ authenticity and narrative captivate, making it a compelling read for anyone interested in Prohibition-era crime or Italian-American organized crime history.

Click here to get a copy of Mafia Confessions from Amazon.

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Transcript [0:00] Hey, welcome all you wiretappers out there. Good to be back here in the studio of Gangland Wire. We have a show about the Springfield, Massachusetts mob and the foundings of it from a relative who has written a really interesting book. I have Nick Parisi here with me. Welcome, Nick. Thanks, Gary. Great to meet you. Nick, it’s Mafia Confession, King of the Bootleggers. Let me read you guys a couple of the reviews. Very well written by author Nick Parisi, he takes readers back to the days of Prohibition seen through the eyes of a family member who was there.

[0:38] Here’s another one, one of the most gripping true crime stories I have ever read. Be warned, it is not for the fainthearted. This book will have you on the edge of your seat from start to finish. I highly recommend it for true crime aficionados and fans of mob thrillers. From Reader’s Favorite Awards. Praise for “Mafia Confession, King of the Bootleggers”

[0:54] So you’ve got some pretty good praise there, Nick. Oh, yeah. I’m getting some good reviews. And even from some of the grandkids of the people that are in the book that are actually in the current mafia today in Springfield, they’re taking pictures with the book and telling me it’s so well done and they love it. Cool. I was actually expecting the opposite, to get some backlash from the other family, but they love it. They love it. They said I did it properly. I got the story right and they appreciate it. Cool. That says a lot in itself. I know these. It’s interesting. A lot of mobsters today, especially our legacy mob guys, follow these different mob channels and they pay attention to them. And if you get something wrong, you’ll get some kind of a comment or somehow you’ll learn it. Or I’ll see comments on other people’s channels that somebody gets something wrong. So it’s interesting how many of these guys are following the mob channels. Legacy of Mario Fiori

[1:54] You know, I had Mario Fiori. He was the oldest living member of the mafia.

[2:02] And it was his father and his uncle that got killed in my book and his aunt. And he read the book. And his son called me on New Year’s Eve saying, Dad loved the book. He was 10 years old when all these hits happened. And, you know, he’s a made member of the Genovese crime family. And he read the book and he says, you know, he loved it. You know, he, you got the story, right. You know, so that, that was the biggest compliment. Yeah. It was coming from him. It’s gotta be really satisfying for you and all your efforts that you put into it, because I know writing a book is hard. Good writing is hard. It’s really hard. Yeah.

[2:44] So absolutely. How did you get into this? Nick Parisi’s Background and Inspiration

[2:48] Did you, you know, just want to look at your family history and a little bit about your background, maybe a backup a little bit, tell the guys a little bit of your, about your background. Cause you’re not a career author. You didn’t spend your, your whole life writing articles and for the New Yorker and books and that. So tell us a little bit about your background. Yeah, far from it. You know, I’m a, I’m a, you know, straight D student student in school. And, you know, that was secondary. And, you know, you watch the beginning of Goodfellas, you know, I always knew I wanted to, you know, grow up and be a mobster. You know, that was me and that was all my friends. And, you know, because our fathers and our uncles and grandfathers, they were all in the current mafia at the time. So, you know, I grew up in a mob family, like, you know, most people, you know, with my background did. And, you know, I grew up in the same house that, you know, the story takes place, you know, back in the prohibition, still own that house and i grew up in that house and that neighborhood it’s a all italian neighborhood and you know i saw a lot of things and you know i was i was schooled by my uncles about the you know the inner workings of things in the mob and grew up with everybody that’s in the current mob today i grew up with all them as kids and you know all through life and yeah yeah i would just go on and on about you know how my childhood was but crazy things happened you know mob related when i was growing up so that was in springfield massachusetts. Origins of the Springfield Mafia

[4:10] Yes, it was. Which is that family is connected to the Genovese family, which goes way back. And you’re going to explain some of that, I believe, as we get into this, correct? Yeah, sure will. Which I find interesting that the Genovese family reached out that far. And I’m sure there is a link. I’ve read about it. I can’t remember exactly what it is, but you’re going to tell us about that. Yeah, I’ll explain it to you how it happened. But yeah, Vito Genovese, the guy who started the Genovese family, he got involved and sent sent his guys to Springfield and they are still running, you know, the family to Genovese family, is still the controlling family in Springfield, Mass. Genovese Family’s Influence in Springfield

[4:49] Interesting. So now how did you get into this? Was there some pivotal event or did you just kind of get interested as you got older and you got more disposable time with your life? Did you find some old manuscripts or newspaper articles? How’d you get into this?

[5:07] Yeah. Well, like I told you before, I retired early by the government. I was involved in the cannabis industry and they decided it was time for me to retire. So that happened. I had some of time on my hands between golf and playing poker. So I started getting into my genealogy and, you know, went all the way back to the 17, 1800s on my, on my family. But my one uncle, my, my grandmother’s brother, there was so many newspaper articles that were, you know, about him during the prohibition days. I, and I knew, you know, from talking to my family that, you know, some, you know, some people get older, you know, they’re retaliated in the machine gun, my my grandmother and my uncle. But I knew that story, but I never knew the exact details. The Influence of Mob Genealogy

[5:53] So when I’m doing the research on the genealogy, all these newspaper articles start popping up, and I go, there’s good stuff here. And while I’m doing this, I come across a guy, he’s got a website called the Mob Genealogy. Nice guy, Justin Cascio, does a really great, great researcher for for Mafia Genealogy. And I started reading some of his stuff and he was talking about my family. And he was doing a story on the other family that was part of the assassination.

[6:25] And he was really biased to the other family. You know, he was more telling their side of the story and making my family look really bad. And I took offense to it. You know, I’m an Italian with a lot of pride and I called him up.

[6:40] And I was like, what the hell you think you’re doing? And I’ve been on his show and I told him, I thanked him. I go, you were my inspiration. He goes, what do you mean? I go, well, you pissed me off. You really pissed me off with that story you wrote about my family. And we started talking and I just say, you know what? I can get mad or I can just write the real story. story. Impact of Prohibition on Organized Crime

[7:05] So I started to do a little project. It was just going to be a history, historical type story I was going to do. And I showed it to a few friends and they’re like, this is a great story. This could be a documentary, they said.

[7:20] So that’s when I made it into a readable story and I turned it into the book that it is today. And people are loving it. It came out the number one new new release and organized crime when I released it three months ago and it’s still up there, I think, in the top 20 for organized crime books, which is pretty good for a new book. And yeah, I’m getting some good reactions for it. Interesting. So let’s set the scene back in the prohibition or pre-prohibition days. Where did your family come from? And name the two families. There’s an opposing family. So name the two families. And then where did your family come from?

[7:56] So the two families, it’s my family, the Parisi family. The Rivalry Between Parisi and Siniscalchi Families

[8:00] And we’re in West Springfield, Massachusetts. And then on the other side of the bridge and on the other side of the river is the Siniscalchi family. But it’s really the Siniscalchi and the Albano family because the Siniscalchis married the Albano family. The Albano family, they can be considered the first Italian gang, we’ll call them, because they weren’t really organized crime yet when you’re talking early 1900s. They didn’t become organized until 1930 when they had the big meeting in Atlantic City. But the two families, the Parisi family, along with the Pagliano family, which are still well known in the mob circles in Springfield today, they ran West Springfield. And the Albano, the Senescalchi family, the Scavelli, the Fiore families, they all ran the Springfield family on the other side of the river.

[8:51] But, you know, basically, you know, they’re basically Italian gangs back then, nothing organized until Prohibition hit in 1920.

[8:59] And, you know, you can you can credit Prohibition for creating the American mafia. You know, Prohibition, if anything, will usually, you know, create crime, as you know, as a law enforcement person. You tell somebody they can’t do something, you can’t drink, you can’t do, you know, you can’t have your marijuana, you can’t, you know, you can’t bet on sports. courts, stuff like that. Once you say you can’t do it, well, you’re going to have an L pop up the supply of that service to you. The Era of Bootlegging and Mafia Expansion

[9:28] So when Prohibition hit, there’s a lot of money to be made. Al Capone, he’s made millions. And so did a lot of the other Italians all across the country, and not just the Italians, the Irish, everybody. And so my family, they got into the bootlegging really big in West Springfield, Massachusetts. And they started branching out across the river to Springfield. And there was some fighting going back and forth, this Siniscalchi family.

[10:00] And my family, they got ripped off on a liquor deal. And my uncle, Giuseppe Joseph Parisi, he found the guy that was called in the newspapers, the king of the bootleggers, the guy who ran everything in Springfield. He was sitting in the back of his limo, On Main Street, three days before Christmas, hundreds of people, you know, Christmas shopping, went up to the car. They had some words and my uncle ended up emptying his gun into his chest and killing him right in front of a huge crowd of people. And got caught by the police within about five minutes because I guess he wasn’t a fast runner.

[10:41] So, and that kicked off a war that went on for 13 years, you know, between the families. Yeah. Interesting. The kind of the river runs through it here from both sides of the river. Yeah. Yeah. And so the Senesquenzi family, they were they were on the what would be the greater Springfield area, the downtown area where all the government buildings were in that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. It was called Water Street back then. It’s been renamed Columbus Ave. And we call it the South End, but it’s the little Italy of Springfield. Okay. And my family actually started off over there, and then they moved across the river. I guess like moving to New Jersey, you’re considered a farmer over in the suburbs. Yeah. You know, like three minutes away over a small bridge. But that river is a huge dividing line, and it’s still a line. It was a line all the way through to the 80s. That line divided the mafia families. You know, you got, you know, you got the Pachiaka family, you know, you got the Boston family, and then you have, you know, the Springfield family, which was the Genovese family. The Rise of Pascalina Siniscalchi

[11:52] And that’s basically what happened next. You know, Carlo Siniscalchi gets killed by my uncle and his widow, Pascalina Siniscalchi, becomes the first lady boss. Boss. She became the queen of bootlegging. She kept that business going along with all her brothers.

[12:10] And she had a big figure in the town and she retaliated. My family was going, visiting, my uncle in jail, waiting for his trial for murder. And my aunt, my grandmother, a couple of my uncles, and my uncle, who at the time was only four years old, also went to visit, little Pasquale Marvici and when they came out of York Street jail visiting my uncle they got followed down the street and a car pulled up alongside of them and machine gunned the car, went to the end of the street turned around came back machine gunned it again trying to kill my grandmother and my aunt and my my uncles the only person that was shot was my you know my but he was four years old he got shot in the arm fortunately he lived but the only person to get hurt was a little four-year-old and it ended up being the nephew of carlos siniscalchi, and he was driving pascalina skinnescalchi’s car when he did it so he got picked up right away.

[13:16] Trial of course my family went and when it was time to identify you know you know my my brother you know who shot at you oh no c no c no can see no c acting like she can’t speak any english at at all, and they all refused to identify who shot them. And they decided to, you know, take it streets and deal with it themselves instead of involving the police.

[13:42] And, you know, that that led on to, you know, it just continued. Then the little boy’s father was also driving the car at the time. They followed him about a month later after the trial. They followed him into Connecticut and they machine gunned him. And John Mussolino, while they’re doing some business down in Connecticut, they got being gunned going down the side of the highway. Anyway, the car pulled up again and machine gunned them. And unfortunately, my uncle, Joe Marvici, he was married to one of my aunts, Lucharisi. I’m sorry, Agata Parisi.

[14:16] And he died. He got shot, you know, in the neck and in the face, and he died. Retaliation and Ongoing Conflict

[14:22] This was in retaliation of my uncle Joe killing Carlos Nascalchi. And this order was put out by Pascalina, the queen of the bootleggers. Well, it’s quite a story. That is, man. You got a lady involved. Yeah, especially having a lady involved. That’s really unusual. We had a similar mob war where people were killing each other over about a year’s time. There was about five murders. But that’s kind of how they develop. It seemed like once they get started, they just start going back and forth. So each one has to retaliate for the most recent atrocity. Challenges Faced by Bootleggers

[14:58] So it’s crazy. Crazy. What was the bootleg business like at that point in time? Were both of them, was there business for both of them? Or was the Senescalchi family kind of dominant in that? Or the Parisi’s? Well, the Parisi family, along with the Pugliano family, they were dominant in West Springfield. And the Senescalchi Albano family, they were dominant in Springfield. And they were trying to take over each other’s territory and expand. There’s plenty of business, you know. But in that, everybody just wants more and more. There’s tons of money to be made.

[15:35] So after this retaliation hit and they killed my uncle, Joe Marvici, now it’s time for the Parisi family to retaliate. And they end up shooting Carlo’s brother, Durante Siniscalchi. He lived.

[15:51] And Pascalina realized she needed some help. You know, she, you know, the Parisi family wasn’t going away. Yeah. So she ends up marrying Antonio Miranda. Now, I don’t know if you know that name, Antonio, the Miranda name, but his brother was Michael Miranda, the consigliere to Vito Genovese and best friends with Frank Costello. Right.

[16:19] So this is where the Genovese family gets its feet in Springfield, Massachusetts. But Consigliari’s Vito Genovese’s brother marries Pasqualina Siniscalchi. The Entry of the Genovese Family in Springfield

[16:35] So now she’s got the Genovese family backing her back in New York. But that didn’t stop anything. He died a year later, natural causes. As um you know mike uh antonio miranda did um i guess he had a simple callus on his foot went in for injury and he ended up having a you know bleeding out they gave him a blood transfusion and it was gonorrhea or syphilis or something you know from the blood transfusion from a college student and he died from that so so you know he died and then she starts running around with Michael Fiore. Now, Fiore is a big name in my area. His nephew is today the oldest living made member of the Genovese or any crime family, Mario Fiore. He’s a legend in the Northeast. He’s 99 years old.

[17:35] He still holds court every day at the Italian pastry shop in Springfield with his espresso um the current you know he he’s people go to him for advice still the current members um he’s he’s supposedly inactive but he’s a wise man very very nice man i’ve met him many times friends with his son louis and um he’s still holding court and um his family you know, very active in the current mob to this day. Wow. So the Genovese, once they got their hooks into Springfield and whatever money and power that you could derive out of that, they did not let go, I don’t imagine, did they? No, not at all. I mean, they were the big bootleggers in New York at the time, and they had the stronghold in Springfield. And then, you know, Antonio dies of a blood infection and Michael Fiori steps in and he decides he’s going to take over Pasqualina’s bootlegging business. And the Genovese family back in New York were not happy about this.

[18:49] So Michael Fiori and Pasqualina, they were over at a friend’s house one evening and they, They come out, and a car was sitting up the street. And for some reason, Michael Fiore lingered at the doorstep talking to the people they were just visiting while Pascalina went and got in the car by herself. And he lingered at the door, and a car pulled up alongside her car, and six gunmen emptied their weapons into her car and into her. A very brutal assassination. The first mob hit of a lady ever made national news. I have newspaper articles from every state in the country on this mob hit on a woman. She was called put on the spot back then. And yeah, it was a brutal, brutal assassination of this lady. And he came out, he got some glass fragments in his shoulder and in his elbow, and that was it. So, you know, this angered the Genovese family. They knew it was a setup. He wanted to take things over. They feel he was involved in that hit. Legacy of Michael Fiori

[20:03] My grandfather, I’m sorry, Michael, he just got out of prison. They’re wondering if he was involved in it. Nobody knows.

[20:15] And he went and had a sit down with the Genovese family and they agreed, listen, enough people are dying on both sides. We want to run Springfield. My uncle and my grandfather and everybody, they just wanted West Springfield. So they made an agreement that, listen, we’ll stay on our own sides of the river. Let’s quit this mob war, which was, my uncle was happy. And I mean, they killed his brother-in-law. They tried to kill his wife. They shot the little four-year-old boy. People in Springfield are getting killed. Women are getting killed. So they held the truce and they had an agreement that we’ll keep West Springfield and Springfield separate. The Brutal Assassination of Pascalina Siniscalchi

[20:53] Separate but michael fury didn’t you know didn’t you know keep to that he was a career criminal when he came to america he’s i think he he was in america for 20 years 17 years of that was in prison, so you know he wasn’t he wasn’t a smart guy he was a thug you know he wasn’t a racketeer he’s more of a muscle man and he had a habit you know every wednesday he’s at a barber shop and and got a you know trim and a shave and you know two guys walked in they they stood on both sides of them said you know hey mike how you doing and i’m doing good and the next thing you know they’re they’re you know filling him with lead and it was a barber shop slang the old albert anastasia.

[21:36] Yeah the old famous barber shop slang just like the anastasia hit yeah and that put that put the end of the whole mob or that was the end of that and i would say six months later prohibition ended, so they almost made it out they almost made it out okay that’s a hell of a story now tell me you found as it was a diary or some a journal or something that joseph parisi had kept and and where he kind of reflects a lot of self-reflection about this murder that he was involved in.

[22:07] Yeah. So he was in, he was in the local jail waiting for trial and it was a huge trial, you know, two thousand people were surrounding the courthouse every day for this trial. You know, you didn’t have TV back then. And when he was in jail, he was keeping, you know, he’s writing his diary and, you know, reflecting back to his childhood, how he met his, you know, how he met his wife, my aunt. And, you know, I got ahold of this diary. It was given to me by his grandson son, and I got permission to use it. And that’s when the story of my book really changed. It was first just a historical, true crime, mafia story about people killing each other, what everybody likes to read. And then after I read this, I just said, I’m going to change this book a little bit. If you read this diary, and he was so intelligent, he was such a loving guy. He loved his wife, He loved his kids.

[23:08] And it was really an incredible diary to read. Reflections on Joseph Parisi’s Diary

[23:12] You know, he could have been a poet. The stuff he was writing to his wife was incredible. This is supposed to be, you know, an immigrant off the boat that can’t, you know, he can’t speak English really well. And he could have been a writer himself. And, you know, so I really, I really added that. I put that into the book and, you know, now I’m getting comments from a lot of women that wrote the book. I mean, that read the book and, you know, how they just love the story and, you know, how they could really, you know, see what kind of guy that he was and the person he killed.

[23:49] Was such an evil person. I mean, he, he, the person that he shot, Carlos Siniscalchi, before he shot him, you know, they were, you know, they were like grabbing police officers and holding their hands behind their back and slicing their necks. And, and they were, they were going after the police. They were, they were a crew, the Siniscalchi Albano crew.

[24:08] And, you know, and then I have my, my uncle and I’m portraying him from his diaries of this, you know, this loving family family man. So many people are telling me, I found myself rooting for a murderer to win this court case. Because my uncle was looking at the electric chair back then. I play golf with some police officers and they’re like, I hate to say this, but I was rooting for your uncle to win the trial. I’m a cop and I don’t usually root for the bad guy, but I really wanted to see him win. And that’s quite a story in itself, too. The Court Case and Pardon of Joseph Parisi

[24:45] The court case was, you know, an incredible story that Joseph Eli, Joseph Eli was his attorney and, you know, super high profile guy. You know, he’s kind of like, you know, like having Cutler and Gotti. But while he’s defending my uncle, he’s running for governor of Massachusetts and he wins. He was governor eight years. So once he got into office, so my uncle ends up going to prison, but he ends up going for manslaughter. The jury convicted him, you know, because he confessed to doing it. He said, you know, I feared for my life. I thought he was going to pull a gun on me. He reached in his back pocket. And when he did, I grabbed my gun and I shot first.

[25:34] And he confessed to it. That’s why it’s called Mafia Confession. I have his full confession from the police in my book. So I forgot where I was going with this. His lawyer had became governor after the case. He’s in prison for manslaughter. Did the governor, I have to guess, did the governor community sentence or? He sure did. He did. He sure did. He pardoned him. he pardoned him and and and he was actually the governor went to his hearing for both his pardon to make sure everybody voted to let him out and then he went to his hearing to get his american citizenship citizenship papers wow and made sure everybody voted that he can be an american citizen so that that made huge paper you know paper stories you know you know the governor or taking a special interest in a mob murderer to make sure he gets pardoned and make sure that, you know, he gets his American citizenship papers, you know, it was a big uproar over that. He must have personally been a real likable guy too. He must have had just one of those personalities that it was a likable guy. So that’s interesting. I think he inherited that personality. Family Reflections on Joseph Parisi

[26:47] You know, back when I had hair, you know, the picture that’s on that I use in the book of my uncle. I look just like him. When I had hair, I looked just like that picture of him in the cage. When we went to court back then, if you were a murderer, they put you in a cage in the courtroom. In the courtroom, wow. A little box cage, like a little prison cell to make sure you didn’t run away, I guess. But I think I look just like him in that picture. Interesting. But he was a jovial guy. When I wrote this book, you know…

[27:22] A lot of my family, like they didn’t realize how deep he was into the mob back then. They just remember he was just, you know, this, this likable guy, funny guy. He owned the Parisi market at the end of my street, the Italian deli. And they’re like, wow. You know, I didn’t realize grandpa or I didn’t realize uncle Joe was, you know, such a hardcore killer. And I go, yeah, that’s, that’s the true story, you know? And they just couldn’t believe it. He used to walk me to school and hold my hand and little man. I go, yeah, that’s how he turned out. But that’s not how he started. The Dual Lives of Mobsters

[27:57] You know, Nick, that’s what I’ve always found fascinating. Even back when I worked, Bob, so to speak, as a from the police viewpoint, I’d see these guys and they’d have, you know, family and kids and they’d go home. They’d be, you know, I may go back out in the evening, but they’d go home and they’d go to their kids events at schools. And and they had this whole separate two separate lives, almost like gangster over the city. You know, dad, grandpa, uncle, you know, a family member at home. That’s that’s one thing I really found interesting about this whole subculture of the Italian mafia. Yeah. You hear that a lot. And it’s interesting. You know, I don’t know. Maybe it’s an atonement type of thing where they’re doing such bad things on one side that maybe they feel that that, you know, They have to have such an extreme on the other side. You know, they went to church every Sunday, and they felt because they did that, they were absolved from all their bad deeds.

[28:59] Most of the mobsters were heavily religious. Really, I think part of it is they came over as immigrants because of lack of opportunity back in Sicily and southern Italy. A lot of no opportunity so they come to america and they’re greeted with the irish and and the germans and the english we’ve already got everything sewed up and so you guys can speak english right we can speak english so here you guys you got all the government jobs right you guys come in and we’re not gonna open it up we’re not gonna let you have anything you know we’re gonna keep you down in a way and so then you’ve got these bright people bright young men aggressive You know who, if you let them into business right away, they do well and, but they won’t let you in. So, you know, there’s a business that’s open and that’s the business of crime and the band bootlegging just played right into that. Parallels between Bootlegging and Marijuana Business

[29:49] That was like a real organized kind of, you could be like a real businessman, you know, organizing, organizing routes, transportation routes, and, and having a lot of people working for you and, and you had collection and, and you had all kinds, all the things of a regular business. So that’s to me, that’s, and you know, the, the aggressiveness and the, the murders and, and beatings and things that just was part and parcel of that business. So I, that, that would be, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And you look in the Northeast and, you know.

[30:21] Back in that time, you know, the firemen, the police department, all the politicians, all Irish. Yeah. And in German. Yeah. And it was the language barrier, you know, because, you know, they came over, they could speak the English language and the Italians couldn’t. So, you know, the Italians back in, you know, 1900, 1910, when the big, you know, mass dysphoria happened of the Italians, I think half the population of Italy left, you know, during that earthquake and tsunami that happened and wiped out Southern Italy. But, you know, the Italians were said, go to America. The streets are paved with gold. Yeah. You know, and, you know, they get here. And first of all, the streets weren’t paved with gold. They were dirt. and second of all the italians guess what you guys are going to build the new roads because that’s the only job we’re going to give you.

[31:13] It’s the immigrant story it’s it’s a story of overcoming great odds the italian community it’s a story of overcoming huge odds and like he’s the language barrier a lot of people don’t understand that i hear people they say well how’d they just learn english you You know, have you ever tried to learn a foreign language? It’s hard. I’ve tried. I’ve worked on a couple of them. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done. It’s impossible almost to really become fluent in it. It’s just, it’s really tough. So it’s a difficult one. See, I had one more question. Oh, okay. Let’s end up with this. I have a question. You being involved in the illegal cannabis business, the marijuana business at one point your life and your relatives being involved in the illegal alcohol business. Can you, what kind of, can you make some, draw some parallels just off the top of your head, the parallels between the two? Oh, I was a modern day bootlegger. Yeah. Exact same thing. You know, liquor was prohibited back at 1920. So somebody provided a, you know, source for it. And I did the same thing. I, you.

[32:26] You know, I saw an opportunity and, you know, marijuana was illegal, but it’s, you know, it’s, I think it’s a pretty much harmless, you know, drug it’s legal now. So, um, it’s much more safe than drinking alcohol. You know, you don’t hear about, you know, people getting in accidents being intoxicated from marijuana like you do with you know alcohol yeah you know it’ll probably be a five mile per hour collision but i you know i consider myself a modern day a modern day bootlegger just like my family what about some of the services some of the problems that bootleggers had was somebody trying to hijack your loads and the secrecy that you needed to maintain and and the problems with people that were your distributors and that kind kind of thing. Is there any, did you notice those similar kinds of problems? Oh yeah. I mean, everything was the same, you know, you had the, you had the bootlegging stills back then we had the, you know, we had the grow houses, you know, we rent houses in these bad neighborhoods and try to make it look like somebody was living there was actually.

[33:25] You know, every single room in the house was, you know, had, you know, a couple hundred plants in it and, you know, indoor light, you know, special indoor lighting for grow. And, you know, you got grow houses you got people that are you know driving in their car with 40 50 pounds in the trunk and you of course you got people that want to try to rob them and you know they’re easy targets you can’t go to the police if you get robbed with you know you know about a hundred thousand dollars you know in a drug deal yeah you know because it’s still federally illegal today even though it’s legalized by the state in many places so yeah you know you have people you know You know, hackers trying to steal from you, try to rob your grow houses. Just it’s the exact parallel with prohibition back in the 20s, the marijuana industry today. Yeah, that’s what I always thought. So that’s been a heck of a story, Nick. Teaser for Nick Parisi’s Next Book

[34:13] I really appreciate you coming on and telling my guys your stories and guys go out and snag this book. I’ll have a link to it on Amazon. It’s Mafia Confession, King of the Bootleggers. So nick parisi do you have any final words that you want to say to anybody out there, Yeah. Just let you know that I’m currently writing another book and it’s about the current day mafia in Springfield, Mass. We had a big mob hit in 2000 of Big Al Bruno. And the man who took his place was Anthony Arilotta, very well known. He became the boss under the Genovese family.

[34:53] And when they got caught about seven years later for killing Big Al Bruno, Bruno, the captain of the Genovese family became an informant and he testified against, everybody that was under him. So he was a big mob boss in our town and he becomes an informant and he puts two of my high school buddies in prison that were with him, Ty and Freddy Gias. I grew up with them since a little kid. And people probably know, heard the name Freddy Gias while he was in prison, he killed Whitey Bulger. So I’m writing a new book. It’s about the current day mafia, the big Al Bruno hit all the way to right up to Whitey Bulger. And I’m talking with current members of the mafia, former members, and I’m actually talking with Anthony Arilotta since he can talk to me with immunity. Fairy tales about all the crimes that happened during the 90s all the way up to 2010. So it’s going to be a great book. I I can’t wait for people to get it. Oh, man, that’ll be a heck of a book. It’s basically when you tie that Freddie Bulger murder into it, too. That’s oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That’s that’s going to be a heck of a book. You got to come back on the show when you get that book out there. Closing Remarks and Resources

[36:04] Oh, yeah. Thank you. Sure. Well, all right. Sure. Well, Nick, it’s been great talking to you. Don’t forget, guys, if you have a problem with PTSD and you’ve been in service, go to the VA website and get that hotline number. If you have a problem with drugs or alcohol, which goes hand in hand with PTSD, you know, our friend Anthony Ruggiano, who had been a Gambino soldier, is a drug and alcohol counselor down in Florida. And he has a hotline on his website, reformmonsters.com or something like that. And he has a YouTube site. Just Google his name. And don’t forget, I like to ride motorcycles. So watch out for motorcycles when you’re out there on the street. And like and subscribe and give me a review once in a while. And I’m going to have a link to Mafia Confessions, King of the Bootleggers in the show notes, guys. So click on that. So thanks a lot, Nick, for coming on the show. Thank you, Gary. I had a great time talking with you. I love your show. I love watching all your other shows. You do a great job. Thank you. You hear that, guys?

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