Hi this is Krista with episode number 133 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. have you checked out all of the amazing partner products that I highly recommend? These are products that I have tried, tested and can totally recommend that will help your dog to thrive. Just go to WagOutLoud.com, and check out our Partner Products section. And I've negotiated discounts for most of the products, so why not see what can make a difference in your dog's life? Have you ever wondered, what are cataracts in dogs? So canine cataracts happen when the proteins of your dog's eyes clump together and form a cloudy film, which actually blocks light into your dog's eye and may cause some vision loss. Over time, the proteins continue gathering and the entire lens becomes cloudy, which could lead to total blindness. Most dogs’ cataracts are hereditary, and there are more than 100 dog breeds known to get cataracts. Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode. Daphna Nachminovitch is the senior vice president of cruelty investigations for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. She oversees the group’s low-cost spay/neuter clinics, which have “fixed” more than 187,000 dogs and cats since 2001, and has successfully worked with government officials to pass laws banning or restricting the chaining of dogs in several cities, as well as in the state of Virginia. She also directs PETA’s field team, which provides neglected dogs in southeastern Virginia and northeastern North Carolina with custom-made doghouses, straw bedding, toys, and other services. Its work to help neglected “backyard dogs” is the subject of a recent documentary, Breaking the Chain, from executive producer Anjelica Huston. Welcome dog lovers! today we are going to be chatting with Daphna Nachminovitch. And she is the Senior Vice President of cruelty investigations for PETA. And she's going to be talking about breaking the chain facing the nationwide dog neglect crisis. Daphna, I am so thrilled that you are here. We've had this on the schedule for a long time now. Could you please introduce yourself and share why are you so passionate about rescuing abused and neglected dogs, I'm sure this is something that you see these disturbing situations in your line of work every single day. Yes, and thank you, Krista, so much for having me. It's wonderful to be here. My name is Daphna and I've been with PETA for 24 years this month. And, of course, one of my passions is dogs and ensuring that their quality of life is what it should be. And in our line of work at PETA, we see dogs and other animals who are deprived, not just of basic necessities of life, meaning food, water, shelter, and veterinary care. But of all that is natural to them and what they need in order to thrive and be happy and have joy. They don't have companionship, they don't get to exercise. And they don't have any interaction that's meaningful with humans. These are dogs that we serve through a local program I'll go into in a bit. But we're talking about dogs who are relegated to the outdoors 24/7, usually at the end of a heavy chain, or even a tether or in a pen 24/7 in the same tiny patch of dirt. And these are the dogs that I hope through my work and others work, PETA’s work to achieve a difference of life and death for them by opening people's eyes to their plight, and hopefully getting legislation passed that makes it illegal to keep dogs outside chained up like an old bicycle. Yes. And we just we can't imagine. Because of course everybody listening today, you know, we love our dogs, they're part of our family, we pamper them, we try to do everything for them. So this neglect and abuse. You know, it's just not even in our minds that human beings can be so cruel. Dapha Is this right? I've read that close to 65% of all abused animals are dogs. And every year more than 10 million animals die from abuse and that's just in the United States alone. Is that what statistics you have as well. I'm not personally familiar with that statistic, but I'm sorry to say that it would not surprise me one bit. And that's why the movie Breaking the Chain about the plight of these dogs is really so vital and important for people who care about dogs to watch. I know it's you know, I've heard people tell me, you know, I don't want to watch something sad. You know, it's gonna make me angry. It's gonna break my heart. I'm gonna cry. And the thing is that we are the people who have the power to make a difference for these dogs. And if we can't even bear to watch what their daily lives consist of, then imagine what their daily lives consist of, you know, we can make a change for them by lobbying for legislation, by reporting cruelty when we see it, by trying to help them hands on with programs like the one that PETA runs called Community Animal Project. And it's the people who are listening to this podcast who can affect change. So I plead with everyone, please watch this movie. It's available for free on Prime Video. And it's also available on other platforms. But Prime Video is free. And it's only an hour. And while it may make you a bit sad, it will also motivate you. And more importantly, it will make a difference to the dogs that we all love. You are so right. And this film was so well done, even though it is heart wrenching. We do have to open our eyes, you know, this is happening in our own backyards. So I'm glad that you're here to chat about this, because we do need to make a change. And thank you so much for you and your team for wanting to make a difference. And especially with legislation. That is what we need. So why don't we talk about this documentary? I just love it was produced by Angelica Houston. Yes, the actress. So how did this project and film come about? Well, that's an excellent question. So this is actually a culmination of months and years of dedication to trying to get the word out about what these dogs go through day in and day out. And we really wanted to open people's eyes to their plight, tell people about our program and what it accomplishes for these dogs, and really inspire people to take action in their own backyard. Because there are dogs like this, not just in our immediate area where our program services, there are dogs like this in, you know, across the United States. And I had a you know, a mayor that we were lobbying in one of the small towns we serve, and we tried to lobby him for a tethering ordinance, meaning an ordinance to ban continuous chaining or tethering of dogs, without someone being outside with them to prevent dogs from existing 24/7 365 days in all weather extremes outdoors. And this mayor in this tiny town in North Carolina, and he was totally unaware that there was a problem in his own community, because he just didn't look to the left or the right. When he went about his daily business going from work to home, or what have you. And after we met with him, he said to me, you know, now that you've told me about these dogs, I see them everywhere. And so I really took that to heart, because to me, that means is that, you know, they're out there, and we just need to look for them. And so this documentary is really designed to inspire people who care to do something, it doesn't have to be, you know, starting their own program, although that would be wonderful. But even just reporting something that they see, or offering to walk a chained dog who doesn't have anybody else to speak for them, delivering straw bedding in winter when it's cold, to prevent them from freezing to death. Little things, you know that can make a difference of life and death for these dogs. And if you watch the documentary, and I know you did Krista, but I really urge everyone to watch it. There are uplifting moments, there certainly are moments that, you know, make you sad, but the uplifting moments, you know, are there too. And there are dogs who get rescued. There are dogs who have been kept chained or pinned for many years and then somebody decides to do the right thing and give them to us or the dog is ailing but treatable and they give them to us. Or sometimes the dog is ailing and not treatable, and we still are able to end their suffering. But it's really designed to inspire people to take action, even from the smallest step to the most sweeping step. I do think that within two there are people who will do the right thing because it's the right thing. But there are people who will not do the right thing unless the law tells them that they have to. And we have worked very hard and continue to work very hard to get unattended, tethering banned everywhere, not just in our service area. But in our service area. We have the individual dogs stories to share with public officials because we visit those dogs. So we can really speak very intimately about their plight and we can speak to their plight when we find you know, we have found dogs who have perished of heatstroke or were frozen to death. And we always make a point of using those stories, you know, to inspire public officials to do the right thing. And so we want to make it so that it is illegal in our country to keep a dog tethered outside, like an old bicycle. And I know this sounds like a totally foreign concept to your listeners, because as you mentioned, their dogs are inside, on the couch, watching TV with them sharing popcorn. But the reality is that there's a, there's a real crisis of care for other dogs. And some of them, you know, from puppyhood, to death, spend their lives in one tiny patch of dirt, with nothing to do, no stimulation, and not even basic necessities of life very frequently. So we want to prompt change with this documentary, we want people to watch it and get inspired and get in touch with us, and ask us what can I do to help? And we will tell them. That's great. How do you find these dogs? Do people report it? Run me through exactly when you learn about a certain dog? And the steps that you take to try and save that dog? Yeah, great question. So our program is well known now in our service area, which is comprised of, we kind of say is a two hour radius from PETA’s headquarters in northern Virginia. And we serve southeastern Virginia and northeastern North Carolina. And so the counties that we that we serve in North Carolina are very impoverished and have no services in some cases and, and the services that there are, are not affordable for the folks that we visit. So we have a dog house program, it's a free dog house program, and people can see more about it at https://www.peta.org/, where we build custom made dog houses, for dogs who spend their entire lives outside. And sometimes that's the best that we can do for them. But it does get us kind of a foot in the door. And so people will call us, they'll call us for dog houses, they'll call us for food, they'll call us for free straw, they might have seen our billboards in the community, they might have seen our vans which have our number on the side, they might have seen our dog houses, which also has a toll free number on the side. So people can call, we do get people reporting on neighbors and others and dogs they're concerned about. But for the most part, we get calls from people who want some kind of free help, whether it's a dog house, or straw, or food or veterinary care. And then once we're in the community, we're kind of like the ice cream truck, we get flagged down by people. Or we get you know, we get stopped at gas stations, we get flagged down in mobile home parks from people who say, Can you give me this? Or can you can you look at my puppy, I think he's, you know, got a skin issue, that kind of thing. And so we actually, the program has expanded and we visit 1000s and 1000s of dogs every year. And these are dogs that we keep visiting, you know, so there are multiple dogs at some addresses. There are dogs, new dogs, dogs we have known for a long time. So we go into these communities, we discover new cases, but we also revisit and do what we call rechecks on dogs, whom we've been visiting for months or years. And, you know, we really do our best to get these animals relinquished so that they can have an opportunity at an indoor life. That's our our ultimate goal is not to have dogs be kept outside. We try to educate we try to educate by example. You know, we try to encourage people to take their dogs for walks and we show them how to you know how to groom, how to trim nails, how to clean ears, how to make sure that the collar is not too tight. And really, that's how we we find our clients. Okay, well, Daphna, this is fascinating, and we have more to talk about, but we are going to take a quick commercial break and we will be right back. SPONSOR AD A special thanks to the team at Tickless USA for sponsoring this episode.  I am so thrilled to share this great company and their products with those who want. To prevent ticks and fleas without the use of toxic chemicals.  “That’s right! No more toxic chemicals need to be applied to your dog! Tickless devices are ultrasonic flea and tick repellers that emit a series of ultrasonic pulses that humans, pets and wildlife can’t hear. These outstanding patented products are the #1 selling chemical-free repellents in Europe that are proven safe in multiple studies. They offer various versions to be worn on the collar and they also have units for the home. You can’t go wrong with these environmentally friendly, chemical and fragrance-free ultrasonic devices, making them perfectly safe to use for your entire family.   Order your tickles device today by going to ticklessusa.com and use the discount code wagoutloud (that’s all one word with no spaces) to receive 15% off of your order. Welcome back, everyone, we are in the middle of an amazing conversation. It's hard to have but necessary. Daphna from PETA is talking to us about breaking the chain: facing the nationwide dog neglect crisis. So Daphna, you were just telling us about what you're doing with this program in these communities. I guess the first thing that comes to mind for me is, do these people have any business owning a dog? Why do they have a dog? If it's not part of the family? What is the dog doing on this small patch of dirt to enhance their lives? If I only had the answer to that question, you know, we ask ourselves that question every single day, why do they have a dog? And we actually ask them, you know, because it is perplexing. Why would you seek to have a social pack animal, and then keep that animal in isolation and deprive that animal of everything that is natural to him or her, you know, essentially, you know, condemning that animal to solitary confinement, I don't have the answer, I can only tell you what people tell us. You know, some, some people think that that's the way to love a dog, they've never had a dog who lived inside, it's a totally foreign concept. to them. It's more of a possession of an animal rather than a you really, as you and I would consider our dogs as members of the family, who are individuals who deserve respect and consideration. There are people who say that they have the dog because the dog barks when somebody comes by. There are people you know, security, safety, it's obviously nonsense, because if an animal is penned or chained, first of all, they're less bonded with you and less likely to protect you, they're just bored. So they bark. But it's also a very archaic and inhumane way of viewing an individual animal. And so we do, we try so hard to talk to people individually, one on one, on what dogs need, not just physically, but emotionally. And to me, the emotional aspects of what we're seeing out there, this crisis of care. I mean, it's all awful, and it's all compelling. And it all keeps me up at night, right? But the emotional deprivation, and knowing, you know, looking at an animal, when I or one of my team members go out and meet an animal, we see an individual, you know, with a personality, and, you know, just different aspects, you know, silliness, fear, you know, exhibiting different behaviors, and the people that we deal with, you know, they don't see what we see, they're not looking at that animal and reading that animal in the way that we read them. And so it's very hard through to get through to them on a level that they just haven't reached, you know, so why they, certainly to answer your question. I think many, if not, most of the people we visit, really don't have a business having a dog. Because if if you're not willing to provide a dog or any other animal for that matter, with what they need to have joy not just to have life, then you really mustn't acquire that animal, that animal depends on you to make their life worth living. And the dogs that we visit, who are tethered, who are, you know, trapped at the end of the chain, no matter the weather, all the time, and sometimes tangled and can't reach their water can't reach shade. You know, these are not animals who have lives. I don't even like to say that they live at the end of the chain, I just say they exist at the end of the chain. Because what they have is not a life. It's just breathing. And so many of them that we see I was in the field most of last week, and it was in the 90s. We're in southeast Virginia and it is so humid. It's like you're walking through soup, hot soup. And these poor dogs. Every dog that we saw was panting panting so heavily too hot to even bother to eat, desperately looking for shade. Just you know, could not get comfortable. As we all know, dogs can't sweat they can overheat very easily if they're in full sun. And even if it's just really hot, and they don't, you know, they can't cope. If they have health conditions or they're elderly or they're very young. You know, their lives are in danger just from from the heat. And it just makes you crazy to see these animals and not be able to tell the people it's illegal to do this, you know, it should be illegal to keep animals, tethered, penned, or really, even outside, when the weather is, is a certain temperature or certain weather conditions. And that's what we ultimately want to see is our local governments or state governments, and ultimately, our federal government is take action to protect dogs, whose owners and I use that word purposefully instead of Guardians whose owners don't do what they are supposed to do. So you're saying, because there is no litigation in place that none of these people, these abusers, we can't file any criminal charges against them? It's just nothing we can do? Well, you can, you know, it depends on so different states have different laws on the books. And most certainly, there are towns and counties that have passed such legislation. And I would say that an animal control officer who is motivated and wants to do the right thing can most certainly, as a general rule, interpret the law to protect an animal. And so I think it all depends on the level of enforcement, the language of the law, but in certain areas that we visit, where it's rural North Carolina, and the town has not passed anything, you know, beyond the basic state law, which is that the dog has to have food, water, and shelter, is that just because the dog is tethered, and it's hot, if they have food, water, and shelter, then there are no violations provided that the dog is in acceptable physical condition, and the chain isn’t tangled and that kind of thing. But the concept of keeping an animal trapped at the end of the chain is not illegal, and it absolutely 100% should be illegal. What has been the worst case that you've ever seen? Oh, man, there are so many horrible cases. I mean, about this kind of thing. I think for the dog or animal in question. Their case was the worst case, you know, my perception of their life is not, you know, it's not, it's not their perspective, because they only know their own suffering. And so, to me, it's all horrible. You know, I mean, we we have had, I mean, the worst thing, as far as I'm concerned, is prolonged suffering and mental anguish. And I don't know that I would say something is necessarily the worst, but I have, you know, a number of dogs who, whom I've known, you know, over the years, and whom I lost a tremendous amount of sleep over. And, you know, and they died, they died at the end of the chain, because the person wouldn't let us take them and the authorities wouldn't act. And, you know, these are things that that haunt you. And there are also dogs that by the time we do get custody of them, it's really too late. They've just, you know, either they are, you know, in advanced, you know, deadly stages of congestive heart failure from untreated heartworm disease, which is so common where we are here, because it's, you know, it's swampy and there are a lot of mosquitoes, or their mental state is just broken, they're just their spirits have been broken. And we actually have a couple of dogs right now in foster care. And one of them came from a situation that, you know, really breaks my heart, because we tried to get these dogs there were three of them. And we tried to get them for years, literally years since 2016. And their owner finally died of COVID in January. And it was very sad because he was actually even though he didn't do right by those dogs. To him, that was the best he could do. You know, he kept the dogs tethered, but the dogs were fed and they were watered, and he was an elderly gentleman, and he was terrified of getting COVID and he went to visit a family member and he just never came back because he got sick and he died and we thought when that happened that we would get custody of these dogs but his family insisted on keeping them tethered behind this empty house. And a few weeks ago we went there and anyway we had been checking on them since January since his passing and really pressuring the family to let us have these dogs. one of whom is essentially you know, really, very kind of feral dog at the end of the chain very, you know very frightened and loses bladder and bowel control when you touch her and just really awful. Just has never been socialized even her own even the man couldn't touch her. And when we arrived a few weeks ago, one of them had lost 40% of her body weight. She was skeletal and she she was a whit dog but she was covered in coal dust. And we finally, you know we that was the last day we visited we just we got in touch with the daughter who lives in Maryland, these dogs are in North Carolina. And so we told her we would be removing the dog that was done like that we're not going to be showing up and finding a dead dog at the end of the tether, right. And it's wonderful that we got the dogs but this this one little dog, you know who lost all this weight and she's in foster care right now. And we called her Pancake because she always did this kind of pancaking from fear. You know, when you approach her, she would just pancake to the ground. And she's coming around in foster care. But she has a secondary skin infection from an untreated flea infestation, her teeth are worn down to the roots from chewing on her skin for years, so they'll need to be removed. She's got advanced heartworm disease. So she's on doxycycline right now to get that kind of pre treated before the injections. But most of all, behaviorally, you know, she's terrified, she's terrified of walking on floors, it took her 10 days to figure out how to take the stairs, she's afraid to go outside. You know, she's really food possessive, I mean, all of these behaviors. And it just breaks your heart to think like this dog, you know, if her life five years ago, when we first asked this man to let us have these dogs, you know, she would have been a different dog. But this kind of constant deprivation and isolation has created an animal who needs so much, you know, so much attention and nurturing and patience. And thankfully, she's in a wonderful foster home with one of our staffers with two other PETA rescues, and those little dogs are kind of teaching her how to be a dog. But it really breaks your heart to think of the psychological impact, the physical impact is much easier to fix than the psychological impact. And to me that, you know, that's a soul killer right there. I can't imagine. Okay. Um, do you guys also investigate puppy mills or dogs used for laboratory testing? Or what about these gambling rings that have gambling for dog fights? Do you get involved in all that as well? So we do actually do undercover investigations. And we haven't done a puppy mill in a while. Because I think awareness raising has been successful to some extent, and we're always keeping our eye out. But and also the opportunity hasn't presented itself, we most certainly investigate laboratories where animals are experimented on dogs and other animals and, and breeding facilities for the purpose of experimentation, as well, as you know, really, any situation in which an animal is being exploited. If we get a call about it, or if we are trying to expose an industry, we will go in and investigate. So we, you know, on PETA.org, people can see our undercover investigations. And one thing that may be of great interest to your listeners is that two of our more recent investigations in the last couple years involve blood banks. And I don't know if people know this, but greyhounds who are used are basically discarded by the greyhound racing industry, are generally then sold to blood banks. And essentially warehoused in crates, and used for blood draws, that are then used in blood donations. And so we shut down a blood bank in Texas a couple of years ago, and then we exposed another blood blood bank, which is still in business called Hemopet. And that's in California. And we are working on legislation presently in California, that would allow community blood banks to exist, which is people who have large calm dogs who don't mind, you know, at quarterly or twice a year, having blood drawn so that it can be donated to an animal in need, you know, for transfusions or what have you. We're trying to get legislation passed in California that would allow that because California is the only state that doesn't allow it. But that's something people can take action on if they go to our website https://www.peta.org/ especially California residents. This is really timely for that. Oh, I never knew that. Yes. Oh, yeah, it is a more than we know. Yes. And if you think about that, I mean, I'm sure many of your listeners have rescued greyhounds at home. These are gentle, wonderful, really intelligent dogs. And you know they need to run they need to have stimulation, they need companionship, and praise and have them if you look at our investigation of Hemopet, they basically sit in crates, and the only time they come out is to have a needle punched into their jugular. And it's Cruelty to Animals plain and simple. We did complain to the state of California. They, in our estimation, they didn't do an adequate job of, of investigating that, but we're very hopeful that this legislation will get the job done. Well, thank you so much for your work. I knew this was gonna happen. We're out of time. And we have to have you back. That's pretty much where we are. And hopefully, you know, probably better news. No problem. Well, let me come back when chaining is a thing of the past? Yeah, like a little time capsule somewhere, right? Oh, my gosh Daphna, I can't thank you and your team enough for the work that you're doing. I mean, you have the biggest heart, but you have to also have an iron stomach to witness all of this. So I guess before we sign off here, how do our animal neglect numbers compare to those in other countries? Oh, God? That's a tough question. There are no such statistics. Really, I think that different countries deprive and neglect and abuse animals in different ways. I am for one, always surprised at the things I see in our own country in the United States. Because we do I think we regard ourselves as a nation of dog lovers and “animal lovers”, but we do horrible things to animals every single day. And I think that other countries, certainly are in that same boat in different ways. There are countries for example, you know, in, in Europe, well, not all of Europe. But like in the United Kingdom, our office in the United Kingdom says chaining is not a big problem there. There are other problems. Sure, penning is not necessarily one of them. So I do think part of the big picture problem that we face, just humans in the world all over the world is, you know, thinking a lot about ourselves, instead of trying to regard other animals, including dogs, as individuals and trying to understand what they're telling us. I think, you know, if you think about it, dogs don't make their own choices, we tell them when to eat, when to pee, you know, when they get to go outside, when they get to go for a walk. And that's, you know, that's a lot for an animal to give up. I know they've been domesticated. But I think, you know, for me even something as not allowing your dog to sniff when you go on a walk, because you're on your phone and you're distracted, or asking, you know, making your dog sit in the waiting room at the vet's office when they're stressed and terrified. Those may seem like little things, but for that dog, you know, they matter. And so I think there are little things that we can all do to make the dogs whose lives we touch better, you know, let them sniff as long as they want. It's their walk. And if they're stressed out at the vet's office, then let them stand up. It's not yours. So you know, yes, I am with you. Oh, my God. Yeah. Well, Daphna, I think what we can take away from this is that we, you know, we're thinking Oh, little old me, what can I do? But we can all together make a difference. So what can we do? Tell us what to do to go to https://www.peta.org/? And what do we do there? Yeah, absolutely. So go to PETA.org And email us. If you have any questions, you can always shoot us an email. But I think number one for listeners is watch the movie Breaking the Chain. Yep, that will really kind of give you an idea of what we're dealing with. And, and from there, there are pages on our website that will tell you how to start your own program, and little things and bigger things that you can do for dogs. And you can certainly if you email us and say that you listen to this podcast and you want to get more involved, just mention my name in your email, and that email will get to me and I will make sure you get the help that you need. If you want to start a program, if you want to do straw giveaways in the winter, if you want to find a way to get free food out in poor communities, we will help you figure out how to do that. We will guide you and we will make sure that you have all the tools that you need. So don't hesitate just send us an email or you know, contact us through social media mentioned in this podcast, mention my name and we will get you the help you need. Wonderful! well I will also put all of the contact information even your social media information in the show notes. So we urge everybody to do something make a difference. Don't sit on the sidelines. And Daphna a huge thank you to you and your team for fighting this fight for the dogs that you know I'm about to cry just thinking…Thank you Oh, you're welcome. And thank you so much for having me on and helping us spread the word about this. I think it's a problem we can conquer, but we need more people to get to join the battle here. Absolutely. Well, Daphna, thank you so much, and hopefully better news next time that we have you on. Yeah, thank you, Krista. Thank you. We want to again thank our friends at tickles USA for sponsoring today’s episode and for making such incredible products.  Why not order your dog a Tickless device today by going to ticklessusa.com and don’t forget that the code ‘wagoutloud’ (no. spaces gets you 15% off)  Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time. Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode?