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The National Security Law Podcastinactive
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- Bobby Chesney and Steve Vladeck
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Unpacking the Legal Issues Behind the Headlines
The National Security Law Podcast (aka the NSL Podcast) is a weekly review of the latest legal controversies associated with the U.S. government’s national security activities and institutions, featuring Professors Bobby Chesney and Steve Vladeck of the University of Texas at Austin. They bring different perspectives to these issues, but always in a friendly spirit. The program is fast-paced but detail-rich, and is meant for lawyers and non-lawyers alike. If you’ve been looking for a thoughtful yet enjoyable way to keep up with and better understand these issues, the National Security Law Podcast is the show for you. To join the conversation, follow nslpodcast on Twitter (@nslpodcast).
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- USA
- Produced In |
- Austin, TX
- Premiere Date |
- 2017-01-25
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- Periodic
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Submit Review244 Available Episodes (244 Total) / Average duration: 01:04:37
Apr 02, 2024
Episode 245: 100 Days Later…
Hello, is this thing on? Check one, check two…testing, testing. We’re good? Alright alright alright…
It’s been 100 days between shows. Thought maybe the world might be calmer if we waited a bit, but no such luck! We are, however, very glad to be back on the air with a fresh (and rather long!) episode. Tune in for topics including:
- Israel & Hamas
- Ukraine & Russia
- America & the Houthis
- 702 renewal
- TikTok & prospects for the divestment bill prevailing vs a First Amendment challenge
- All sorts of Trump litigation
- All sorts of Texas border stuff (invasion as a constitutional concept, state-level war powers, preemption, the limits of preemption, etc.)
- Plus, why do the Mets already suck? It’s only been four games. Yeesh.
Dec 23, 2023
Episode 244: Not Our 30th Episode of 2023
Barring an unlikely spate of more than a dozen episodes happening over the next week, it sure looks like Steve has won his bet with Bobby, for this marks the 16th episode of 2023. Ouch, that’s not even *close* to the 30-show target! But tune in anyway if you are interested in a thorough overview of what is and is not clear about the Colorado Supreme Court’s decision disqualifying Donald Trump from the ballot under color of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment (that is, on grounds that Trump had engaged in insurrection).
Nov 28, 2023
Episode 243: Boiled Froggy Water Under the Bridge
Two months between episodes? Looks like someone will be buying Steve a dinner at the conclusion of 2023 (barring a pivot to posting new episodes every day).
As for what is on tap in episode 243:
- Israel and Gaza: a review of key international law issues
- The United States and Iran: a review of key domestic law issues
- Trumplandia: checking in on, like, 17 separate cases currently underway
As for frivolity: there are some (inevitable) ramblings about football, but much more frivolous than that is the ad hoc holiday favorites playlist…
Sep 29, 2023
Episode 242: A Rule of Law (and Punctuation) Free Episode!
Sorry about accidentally taking the whole month off, but we’re back with a classic: tune in for the 9/11 case warm-up, and stick around for 45 minutes of wrangling over the PCLOB Report on Section 702! And, yes, frivolity, always frivolity (wherein we discuss the musical Six, football, and gargantuan mismatches).
Aug 22, 2023
Episode 241: Let’s Barbie!
Tune in for the latest, in which we discuss life as a fall 1L, RICO, removal, Nashiri, Bahlul, Shimari, Barbie, and Silo. And if all those names mean something to you…well, you are among the select few, and this pod is for you!
Aug 08, 2023
Episode 240: Something Got Released
If you are interested in a detailed and careful explanation of the charges at issue in United States v. Trump (the recent indictment of the former president in relation to his effort to overturn the results of the election), the way that the alleged facts related to those offenses, and the relatives strengths and weaknesses of the most likely defenses…well, this is the show for you. Though co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney originally planned to discuss an array of topics in addition to reviewing the latest indictment of the former president, they ended up spending the entire hour on this one.
Jul 11, 2023
Episode 239: We Have Many Tapestries!
Well, it’s been about a month, so it’s good we are finally back with a fresh episode! Tune in as hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney kick the tires on:
- The New York Times story (per Charlie Savage) on the Biden Administration’s October ’22 revised policy guidance on kill/capture operations outside areas of active hostilities
- Touching base with the will-it-ever-end (no) Nashiri litigation
- The National Guard, federal court-martial jurisdiction for members not in federal service, and the Fifth Circuit
- Missouri v. Biden: a stunning injunction (and 155-page underlying memo) limiting the ability of a slew of federal government leaders to work with social media platforms on content moderation
And, of course, no shortage of frivolity! If you are not down with the frivolity, you definitely want to skip the first six minutes. Well, maybe a lot more than that… :)
Jun 12, 2023
Episode 238: The World Wonders
Today’s episode focuses on the indictment in United States v. Donald Trump and Waltine Nauta, S.D. Fla. (23-80101-CR). Co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney walk you through the factual allegations, the crimes charged, the areas where tricky evidence questions might arise, the process for selecting the presiding judge, and the prospects for an array of things including: recusal; a Presidential Records Act defense; a I-declassified-this-stuff defense; a pre-verdict Rule 29 motion for judgment of acquittal; and a trial occurring around the time of the election. Buckle up and tune in!
Apr 25, 2023
Episode 237: Are You Not Detained???
And we’re back, with co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney breaking down the latest national security law news along with much else. This week the spotlight is on the D.C. Circuit’s en banc decision in al Hela, which grapples with the applicability of the Fifth Amendment Due Process Clause (in both its procedural and substantive aspects) to GTMO detainees. We’ve also got an update on the Badilla contractor immunity case (in which Steve plays a role as counsel to the plaintiffs), some Shadow Docket developments, and notes on the prosecutorial aspects of Cold War II.
Apr 05, 2023
Episode 236: Damn the Torpedoes!
Good morning! Episode 236 covers:
The Trump Indictment
The Biden Administration's Executive Order on Abusive Commercial Spyware
A CENTCOM strike against an IS target in Syria
The future of private prosecutors?
Mar 16, 2023
Episode 235: A Drone Struck
We're back with a Spring Break edition, featuring:
* ICC cases emerging against Russian defendants for (1) removing children from Ukraine to Russia and (2) attacking civilian infrastructure
* A UK drone strike in Syria, a US drone strike in Yemen, and a US drone struck (by the Russians)
* Renewal of Section 702 and the Rep. LaHood story
* TikTok, CFIUS, and the RESTRICT Act
* Another GTMO transfer
* Possible repeal of the 2002 and 1991 Iraq AUMFs
And an early start to the annual Mets demoralization process.
Feb 23, 2023
Episode 234: Not *That* Linda Hamilton
Are you ready for a DEEP DIVE? We've got an extended conversation today explaining the stakes and anticipating the outcomes in two cases argued in front of SCOTUS this week: Google v. Gonzalez and Twitter v. Taamneh. The cases present questions about the scope of civil liability under the Anti-Terrorism Act in the aiding-and-abetting context (as applied to the use of social media platforms by terrorist groups) and the proper interpretation of Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act and its protection of such platforms.
Feb 14, 2023
Episode 233: This Episode Was (Not) Written by ChatGPT
We are delighted this week to feature two Texas Law students -- Sam Libby and Alex Rigby -- who earned the chance to co-host the show with us thanks to their generosity supporting the Texas Law Fellowships program (a charitable endeavor that supports Texas Law students doing summer public interest work). Join us as we talk about just how it is that Prime Minister Trudeau can be involved in orders that result in American F-22s taking out a UFO, a largely-unremarked material support prosecution that twenty years ago very well could have resulted in a high-profile dispute over military detention of a US citizen, loads of Super Bowl analysis, and much more! And, yes, lots of questions posed to ChatGPT!
Feb 09, 2023
Episode 232: Top Gun 3: Deflategate!
After a week with no electricity, Professors Vladeck and Chesney are back with the latest in national security law news. Tune in for discussions of:
* the law (or lack thereof) when it comes to balloons, altitude, and aerial espionage
* sanctions on the Wagner Group and also on various Russians associated with ransomware
* FBI and DOJ disrupting the Hive ransomware group
* Majid Khan transferred from GTMO to ... Belize?
* Ted Olson on the military commissions process
Finally, you'll want to watch SNL's "HBO Mario Kart": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiIRlg4Xr5w
Jan 24, 2023
Episode 231: If You Go to Washington Don’t Crime There
What's this, a one-week turnaround between shows? Will wonders never cease? In a throwback to the days of this being a weekly show, your co-hosts Bobby Chesney and Steve Vladeck are back on a quick turnaround in order to debate and discuss:
* A new seditious conspiracy conviction arising out of Jan. 6
* A New York State "material support" prosecution (State v. el Faisal)
* Various SCOTUS updates
* Any classified documents that we might have found when cleaning up the ol' office
* The shocking arrest of the former FBI Special Agent in Charge of the Counterintelligence Division at FBI's NY Field Office on IEEPA (and other) charges relating to secret work for a Russian oligarch....oof.
And, as always, some frivolity.
Jan 17, 2023
Episode 230, Not Section 230
Wouldn't want you to be misled by the episode number (though we do actually foreshadow some future Section 230 coverage in light of an upcoming pair of SCOTUS cases)! At any rate: tune in as Professors Chesney and Vladeck discuss what is and isn't similar about the Trump and Biden classified documents scenarios; the relative authority of the President and Congress under the Arms Export Control Act (in light of the potential sale of F16s to Turkey); the 21st anniversary of GTMO; the indictment of a Chinese man who harassed a fellow student at the Berklee School of Music based on the victim's pro-democracy, pro-freedom speech; and of course no small amount of frivolity!
Jan 02, 2023
Episode 229: We Are Not Not Going to Post Weekly in 2023 Maybe
Happy 2023 y'all! We are off to a quick start this year. Tune in as Professors Vladeck and Chesney discuss recent developments, including:
* The Supreme Court's "Title 42"-related action in Arizona v. Mayorkas
* Highlights from the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year '23 (including a National Guard reform that did not make it, and a newly-clarified authorization for Cyber Command that did)
* Central Command's year-end summary of its counter-ISIS operations in Syria and Iraq in 2022 (including remarkable statistics on the scale of detention administered by both Iraq and the SDF)
* Call for your help: we want suggestions for statutes, cases, or events (including ones from long ago, not just recent events) that you'd like us to explore in future episodes (we are going to add a recurring deep-dive segment)
All that, plus ample frivolity.
Dec 13, 2022
Episode 228: Not *That* George Clinton!
Holiday edition! Tune in as co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss the rapid demise of the attempt by Donald Trump's lawyers to use Executive Privilege in relation to the classified documents found at Mar a Lago, the arrival in the US of a former Libyan intelligence officer charged with a key role in the horrific bombing of Pan Am 103 in 1988, the arrival in the US of a Mauritanian man charged with several terrorist attacks in Mali, the arrival in the US of erstwhile crypto exchange entrepreneur Sam Bankman-Fried to face charges stemming from that total dumpster fire. And, naturally, an indefensible number of detours, digressions, and other forays into frivolity!
Nov 14, 2022
Episode 227: Maybe This Episode Should Pay to Get Verified
Hello friends! We're back with a new episode. Tune in as Professor Steve Vladeck and Dean Bobby Chesney chat about (1) the fate of Twitter, (2) the national security implications of the election results, (3) a just-released 2016 NSA IG report, (4) the latest GTMO transfer, (5) Bobby's just-published Harvard Law Review piece (concerning two SCOTUS cases last year which touched on the state secrets privilege), (6) Steve's brand-new substack newsletter--One First--exploring all things SCOTUS, and (7) House of the Dragon.
Oct 18, 2022
Episode 226: What Is a Court Anyway?
So, it's been a while...but we're back! And it's time to buy Steve's book on the Supreme Court's Shadow Docket: tinyurl.com/shadowdocket
Meanwhile, in today's episode, we'll review the ongoing Mar-a-Lago documents litigation, the Jan. 6 Committee's subpoena to ex-president Donald Trump, the Biden Administration's new policy memorandum on lethal force outside areas of active hostilities, the Justice Department's new update to its state secrets privilege process policy, the new executive order on handling of EU citizen data in the context of American intelligence gathering, Steve's latest litigation developments, and did we mention you can pre-order Steve's book at tinyurl.com/shadowdocket??? Or at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Docket-Supreme-Undermine-Republic/dp/1541602633/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=.
Sep 01, 2022
Episode 225: Appetite for Obstruction
Hello, and welcome back to the National Security Law Podcast, with co-hosts Bobby Chesney and Steve Vladeck! In this episode, we dig into the latest filings in the Mar-a-Lago classified documents/presidential records litigation, emphasizing the mounting reasons to believe that the first charges we might see in relation to all of this will involve not the underlying questions about unlawful retention of presidential records or national defense information, but "investigative offenses" such as obstruction of justice. We also touch on "Nashiri Day," explaining what that anniversary signifies, as well as a bit on the recent airstrikes conducted by US forces in Syria--against weapons bunkers associated with an Iran-backed group that had earlier launched rockets at a US facility in Syria.
Aug 16, 2022
Episode 224: Mar-a-Lag-o-Palooza
After just one week, incredibly, we are back! And we're joined by two of our fantastic Texas Law students. Ryan Brown and Adam Goodrum won the right to guest host at last year's public-interest auction at Texas Law, and as it happens they signed up for the episode coinciding with the unsealing of the now-famous Mar-a-Lago search warrant!
If you are itching for a nearly line-by-line breakdown of the three criminal statutes mentioned in the search warrant application (as well as a key statute that is not mentioned), this is the show for you. And if you also might be interested in a painfully-long discussion of the complexities that arise when a president acts contrary to an existing executive order, without actually amending or otherwise altering that executive order, well this is your lucky day!
Aug 09, 2022
Episode 223: The Search for Episode 222!
Well, the original idea was to have a short episode about the strike that killed al Zawahiri, and to recap the D.C. Circuit's Larabee ruling. But then just before showtime, we learned of the FBI executing a warrant at Mar-a-Lago, not to mention an avalanche of awfully-inflammatory commentary about the significance of this event. Between that and the Mets on a hot streak, we ended up with a lot to discuss! Tune in for all the classic hits, such as: What is the legal significance of a formal surrender agreement in relation to the domestic law effect of a Declaration of War?
Jun 28, 2022
Episode 221: GWOT Shots, Part Deux
And we're back, with yet another interminable window of extemporaneous frivolity at the front end of what otherwise is a somewhat serious show about the latest national security law developments and debates (seriously). Listen up as co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss Russia's denial of combatant immunity to foreign fighters in Ukraine (including some Americans), how this pertains to mercenary status, how it compares to US policies on al Qaeda and Taliban fighters, how this in turn relates to the Abd al-Hadi al-Iraqi plea deal at GTMO, how speaking of GTMO they transferred Gul to Afghanistan, and hey speaking of the Global War on Terrorism (GWOT) there was a capture operation in Syria that seems like it was led by US SOF but who knows who now holds the detainee let alone what legal framework applies and hey maybe it was France because it seems like they've got their own Le GWOT going in the Sahel to include drone strikes taking out several dozen guys on motorcycles plus they also had a capture operation, and [...catching my breath...] meanwhile Steve lost a case about court-appointed prosecutors but maybe that's not the last word because that dissent made some good points. [EXHALE]
Jun 07, 2022
Episode 220: This Podcast Made the Kessel Run In Less than 12 Parsecs
And...we're back, and in less than a month, remarkably! Tune in as co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss (1) the latest seditious conspiracy indictment arising out of January 6th, (2) the Navarro contempt of Congress charge, (3) the latest developments in the lawsuits challenging the Texas and Florida social media content-moderation laws, and (4) enforcement of Commerce Department licensing rules designed to prevent certain US-made aircraft from being taken to Russia (or Belarus) and the way this resulted in what ultimately will be a $400m loss for Roman Abramovich. That, plus more aimless Mets and Star Wars chit-chat than any reasonable person possible could want....
May 17, 2022
Episode 219: And the Podcast Host-Designate Is …
Some of y'all were wondering if the show was done-for now that co-host Bobby Chesney has been named the next dean of the University of Texas School of Law. But as it turns out, the main impact of that on the show probably will be no more and no less than to take the level of preparation that he and co-host Steve Vladeck put into things to new lows!
All of which is a long-winded way of saying: we're back with a fresh episode, this time focused on (1) discussion of the leak(s) associated with the Supreme Court's Dobbs case and (2) a review of what a war-crimes analysis might entail as applied to operation Russia's GRU conducted to shut down Ukraine's grid during the period after the occupation of Crimea but before the outbreak of the current invasion!
Ok, there's also a preposterously detailed discussion (in the form of a song-to-song competition) of the relative merits of various Indigo Girls albums. Seriously? Seriously.
Apr 27, 2022
Episode 218: From 28(j) to Enterprise-J
Ok, ok, it's been a full month since the last episode. But good things come to those who wait! We are back, and hope you'll tune in as co-hosts Bobby Chesney and Steve Vladeck discuss the latest in national security legal news, including:
* The questions associated with neutrality and co-belligerency (and especially "qualified neutrality") in relation to US and allied support to Ukraine in the Ukraine-Russia War
* The Supreme Court's decision to grant a stay in Lloyd Austin v. U.S. Navy SEALS 1-26, in relation to a district court order (based on the Religious Freedom Restoration Act) barring the Navy from enforcing its policy precluding deployment of personnel who refuse COVID vaccination)
* Another GTMO detainee (Hassan bin Attash of Yemen) cleared for release
* A guilty verdict against an Islamic State member (a formerly-British citizen who was part of the quartet known as "the Beatles") charged with involvement in the horrific abuse of captives
And, yes, lots and lots of crowing over the early-season success of the Mets, along with other frivolity!
Mar 28, 2022
Episode 217: Talking With Matt Olsen About DOJ National Security Division
What a treat we have for you this week! Assistant Attorney General Matt Olsen, head of DOJ's National Security Division, sits down with co-hosts Bobby Chesney and Steve Vladeck to talk about a wide range of NSD-related topics:
* the origins of NSD
* the Section 702 sunset next year
* indictments against Russian hackers
* sanctions enforcement
* focusing on China's commercial espionage and transnational repression
* the continuing international terrorism threat
* the growing domestic terrorism threat
Mar 08, 2022
Episode 216: This Podcast Does Not Constitute Legal Advice
And we're back! Tune in as Professors Bobby Chesney and Steve Vladeck discuss and debate:
* ICC jurisdiction over war crimes on Ukraine's territory
* Limits on sharing tactical intel and arms?
* The Neutrality Act and its implications for those interested in going to Ukraine to fight
* The Supreme Court's twin State Secrets Privilege rulings last week (Zubayda, Fazaga)
* Qhatani transferred out of GTMO
* A pair of recent rulings against the Navy on its COVID vaccination policy
* The House Foreign Affairs Committee's AUMF hearing
All that, plus. what can only be described as perfunctory frivolity :)
Feb 22, 2022
Episode 215: Rhyming or Outright Repeating?
We are back with a fresh episode, hot on the heels of Russia's latest incursion into Ukraine. Tune in as we survey some of the legal dimensions to this latest development (including discussion of the impact of diplomatic recognition on UN Charter Article 2(4)), as well as the various sanctions frameworks that are now in play. We also check in on an important district court ruling in the civil suit against former President Trump in relation to the January 6 insurrection, exploring its First Amendment/Brandenburg doctrine aspects. As for frivolity? A bit random this time, even for these guys: we've got the Juwan Howard situation following the Michigan-Wisconsin game, and reviews of some of the key rides at Disneyland. Because...well, it's the frivolity segment, after all!
Feb 01, 2022
Episode 214: What Month Is This Anyway?
We are back, and even though one of us apparently cannot work this new tech called a "calendar," we're excited to bring a shorter-than-usual episode without having a whole month go by!
Tune in as co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss and debate:
* The Biden Administration's change of position on the availability of coerced statements for use in pre-trial proceedings in military commissions
* The news of the capture, repatriation to the United States, and federal court prosecution of a woman from Kansas who apparently had traveled to Syria to take up arms on behalf of ISIS--and the questions this raises about how long she was held pre-transfer, and in whose custody
* Civil suits against private military contractors, the varied legal obstacles they face, and updates on some current lawsuits in which Steve is involved--and interesting questions they raise, such as the precise scope of the "combat activities" limitation
All that, plus a grab-bag of frivolity including the new Netflix movie based on Robert Harris's Munich book, and of course NFL sportsball happenings!
Jan 20, 2022
Episode 213: Most Likely to Engage in a Seditious Conspiracy
Seeing as how 2022 is well underway, it's probably about time we produced a new episode! Tune in for co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney as they discuss and debate:
* The various international and domestic law questions that might arise in that Russia (further) invades Ukraine
* The oral argument in Thompson v. Trump (especially the presidential immunity question)
* The who-owns-the-privilege question in Trump v. Thompson (not a typo)
* The seditious conspiracy indictment against Oath Keepers leaders
* What federal statutes have to say about a scenario in which the President might confer authority on a private armed group to "enforce" the law
* Believe it or not, a judicial change in a military commission
* More GTMO detainees approved (by Periodic Review Board) for transfer out (though no one actually seems to be leaving)
All that plus the usual frivolity, this time featuring the classic combination of (1) Jim Carrey films and (2) NFL playoffs.
Dec 17, 2021
Episode 212: Nakatomi Plaza Holiday Office Party Edition
Welcome to our official Holiday Office Party, where we mainly just hope things will go smoother than they did for the good people of Nakatomi Corporation in 1988!
In this episode, co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss:
* The state of the criminal contempt of Congress proceedings against Steve Bannon and Mark Meadows
* The D.C. Circuit's ruling refusing to assert post-presidential decision-making authority to Donald Trump in relation to the records of his presidency held by NARA
* The SCOTUS cert. grant in Torres (does Congress under its power to raise and support the armed forces have authority to abrogate state sovereign immunity)
* The SCOTUS cert. denial in Begani
* The 10th Circuit's ruling in Muhtorov (upholding the Section 702 FISA framework against various challenges)
* Passage of the NDAA for Fiscal Year '22
All that, plus book recommendations for your holiday shopping convenience, and a Q&A regarding the works of the great Mo Willems (you know: Pigeon, Elephant and Piggie, and Knuffle Bunny).
Nov 09, 2021
Episode 211: Behold, our Q4 episode
Ah, well, that took a bit longer than expected! We promise we don't mean to let this become a quarterly show, or even a monthly. Too much national security law for that!
In today's episode, we discuss:
* Haroon Gul's victory in a GTMO habeas case (and what it may or may not mean for the bigger picture)
* Majid Kahn's sentencing testimony (and the clemency letter that the majority of the panel subsequently issued)
* The SCOTUS decision to deny cert. in ACLU's attempt to establish a constitutional right of public access to at least some FISC opinions (and the Gorsuch-Sotomayor dissent)
* The SCOTUS oral argument in Fagaza, raising both statutory interpretation questions about FISA (and, possibly, constitutional questions about the State Secrets Privilege)
* Today's DOJ announcement about Poland's arrest (and America's extradition request concerning) a Ukrainian national associated with the REvil ransomware Kaseya campaign
* The conviction (for economic espionage) of a Chinese MSS official who attempted to get an American GE employee to spill secrets (and the extradition of the defendant from Belgium, where he thought he was going to take delivery of stolen information)
And, of course, some disorganized frivolity!
Oct 06, 2021
Episode 210: The Witness Who Became a Meme
What's that? A new episode? What have these guys been doing all month...
Well, whatever they've been doing all September since Episode 209, Professors Vladeck and Chesney are back at last with a new episode. Tune in as they discuss and debate:
* The en banc D.C. Circuit oral argument in al Hela (asking, inter alia, whether the Due Process Clause applies at GTMO)
* A preview of the upcoming SCOTUS arguments relating to the State Secrets Privilege
* The Dorfman/Naylor/Isikoff article on CIA planning relating to Assange and Wikileaks
* A National Security Division roundup noting the sudden wind-up of the Huawei CFO case and the new material support case against a Canadian Islamic State fighter previously held by the SDF in Syria
All that, plus no small amount of frivolity (including a much-too-long endorsement of the greatness that is Joe Abercrombie).
Sep 10, 2021
Episode 209: The 20th Anniversary of 9/11
This week on the National Security Law Podcast, we mark 20 years since the 9/11 attacks. Tune in as co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney share their views on the major legal developments unleashed by that awful day, in a broad retrospective on the era.
Aug 16, 2021
Episode 208: Afghanistan
In this week's episode, we focus on the unfolding situation in Afghanistan.
Aug 11, 2021
Episode 207: Pearls Are In the Eye of the Beholder
It's been a long summer break for the podcast, but we're back! Tune in today as Professors Chesney and Vladeck discuss and debate:
* AUMF reform prospects (2001 AUMF in particular)
* Ongoing uncertainty as to the fate of the Presidential Policy Guidance re use of lethal force outside areas of active hostilities
* Litigation exploring whether a unanimous panel should be required in courts-martial
* A semi-deep dive into Jacobson, the 1905 Supreme Court case that upheld a local mandatory vaccination order (targeting smallpox) in the face of what we would today describe as a substantive due process fundamental rights/liberty claim.
* How about that CDC rent-moratorium extension?
And, yes, we lament the apparent collapse of the Mets, while also recommending some good books and podcasts!
Jul 13, 2021
Episode 206: This Podcast Is Not a State Actor
[Updated to fix the audio issue with the original file...though I have to admit, it was very entertaining to hear the hosts speaking an octave too low!) We're back with another round of discussion and debate featuring co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney, working through the latest national security law developments. Tune in for:
* The end of the decade-long run of General Mark Martins as Chief Prosecutor at GTMO
* The interagency debate within the Biden Administration regarding whether to concede that the Due Process Clause applies to GTMO detainees (either in the habeas context or more broadly), in connection with the al-Hela litigation currently pending before the en banc D.C. Circuit
* Interstate deployments (without federalization) of state national guard forces, and the state-level separation-of-powers issues arguably raised by private funding of NG activities
* OLC's opinion on the removal power
* New life for the US effort to extradite Julian Assange from the UK
* Donald Trump attempting to invoke the First Amendment as the basis for a civil action challenging the actions of (private) social-media companies
* Brief notes on the parallel between the so-far-unsuccessful efforts to deter both attacks on US forces in Iraq and ransomware attacks emanating from Russia
And as always, there's much frivolity both at the start and the finish!
Jun 28, 2021
Episode 205: Road Trip!
We're back, with one slightly-older co-host and another co-host who is ready to drive across the country! Tune in for discussion and debate relating to:
* The domestic and international law aspects of the Biden administration's decision to conduct airstrikes against Kata'ib Hezbollah targets in Syria and Iraq
* The ongoing Biden administration internal debate over which rules should govern the use of lethal force in locations other than Syria and Iraq
* The Supreme Court's denial of cert. concerning warrantless searches of electronic devices at the border (leaving in place a significant circuit split, oddly)
* The Supreme Court's denial of cert. in a case involving torture claims against a contractor associated with the Abu Ghraib prison
* The Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces ruling in Begani concerning court-martial jurisdiction over former servicemembers
* Sentencing for a US translator who became a spy for Hezbollah, providing classified information including the identity of human sources linked to the attack that killed Iran's Suleimani
* Sentencing for a US person convicted of teaching the making of explosives for purposes of a federal crime of violence
* Seizure of websites used by Kata'ib Hezbollah and also by an IRGC-affiliated Iranian media group
All that, plus the MLB crackdown on scuffed balls and ... Steve's Excellent Cross-Country Road Trip!
Jun 15, 2021
Episode 204: [Insert Inscrutable Title Here]
Hello from Austin!
We're back with a new episode! Tune in as your co-hosts Professor Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss and debate:
* SCOTUS narrows the scope of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act in Van Buren
* SCOTUS grants cert. in Fazaga, adding to the sense that the October '21 Term will be unprecedented for its engagement with state secrets privilege and FISA issues
* The Biden Administration withdraws IEEPA sanctions against TikTok and WeChat...for now, at least!
* GTMO closure trial-balloon? About that NBC News story that mentions a possible desire to put the long-term military detainees in a Supermax prison rather than a military facility
* Over-the-horizon uses of force in Afghanistan post-withdrawal: so, will that be subject to the PPG as a use of force outside a zone of active hostilities?
* Leak-hunt subpoenas: we've got subpoenas concerning the communications of journalists...and Members of Congress...and the White House Counsel. Where are the legal and policy redlines in such cases?
* Mike Flynn, Larabee, and the idea of recalling separated servicemembers in order to subject them to court-martial proceedings (based on post-separation conduct)
Also, did we mention the Mets are in first place? Join the MLB-themed frivolity as we ramble about teams and players doing surprisingly well and surprisingly not-so-well!
May 24, 2021
Episode 203: Resistance Is Feudal (aka an interview with CISA’s Eric Goldstein)
We are very excited for this week's show, in which we interview Eric Goldstein--the Executive Assistant Director for Cybersecurity at DHS CISA! We had a terrific conversation, with a focus on (1) understanding the specific programs and activities that CISA engages in to improve cybersecurity, (2) the highlights from President Biden's cybersecurity executive order, and (3) career pathway insights.
We did not neglect the frivolity either--we've got NBA playoff predictions (including that rarest of all NBA discussions: how things are looking for the Knicks and Wizards in the context of the playoffs).
May 20, 2021
Episode 202: Back in Steve’s Office
Recording episode 202 was something of a milestone for us, because we met in Steve's office for an in-person recording for the first time since Before. Wow! We're grateful to be back in the "studio," and we found it was a much-more fun experience for us. See if you can detect the difference as we talk about
* A GTMO military commission ruling construing the Military Commissions Act prohibition on the admissibility of information derived from torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment to apply only as to offers of evidence in the trial setting, not to pre-trial motion practice (at least where the statement in question is not offered for the truth of the matter asserted).
* The judicial carousel at the mil coms prepares to spin again.
* The sentence-reduction agreement in the Majid Khan case, which will (as that label suggests!) reduce his sentence in exchange for Khan giving up on his effort to secure testimony regarding his treatment while in CIA custody.
* Some brief comments on the Gaza situation.
* Noting that Matt Olsen will be nominated to replace John Demers as the head of DOJ's National Security Division, continuing the tradition of excellent leadership in that office.
We also have all sorts of utterly frivolous thoughts about Top Gun and the Top Gun sequel, as well as Marvel's plan for a Star Lord-focused scripted podcast series set in a dystopian non-cinematic universe timeline. Can't wait!
May 07, 2021
Episode 201: Revels, Revolts, and Reduxes…Part Deux
Our latest episode is shorter than normal because...well, we recorded most of it and then lost the file. Suffice to say we were a bit tired by the time the re-recording was done! Or maybe we're better off this way? Either way, tune in for our thoughts on the DC Circuit's en banc grant in the al Hela GTMO detainee case (asking whether the Fifth Amendment Due Process Clause applies at GTMO), the ACLU's attempt to get SCOTUS to review a FISCOR decision relating to the ACLU's efforts to compel public release of FISC opinions on First Amendment grounds, and the recent FOIA-based release of the 2017 Trump administration changes to the 2013 Obama administration "PPG" rules on targeted kill/capture operations outside of areas of active hostilities.
Apr 20, 2021
Episode 200: 5% of the Way to Episode 4000!
Thanks so much to everyone who attended (virtually) tonight's live recording of episode 200! It was a blast. We covered:
* The drawdown in Afghanistan and its legal implications (for the AUMF, detention, habeas litigation, the use of force, you-name-it)
* The latest developments in the Military Commissions
* The new round of sanctions against Russian entities--particularly those relating to the SolarWinds episode
* FBI's use of a Rule 41 search(-and-seizure) warrant to delete webshells off of servers compromised as part of Hafnium's Microsoft Exchange exploitation
* Taking stock of the Biden Administration on national security law issues at the (very roughly) 100 day stage
* All that, plus a fun array of audience questions on matters ranging from the professional to the personal.
We are grateful for all you listeners. Thanks for making the first 200 episodes so fun. Just 3,800 shows to go before we find something better to do!
Apr 13, 2021
Episode 199: Why Is There No SJA Aboard the Starship Enterprise?
In this week's episode, co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss and debate:
* The proposed Domestic Terrorism Prevention Act (and DOJ's January 2021 response to an earlier version of the DTPA)
* A pair of recent federal prosecutions involving attempt/conspiracy to provide material support to the Islamic State--and corresponding lessons about the way in which terrorism cases are developed using cooperating witnesses and undercover officers.
* The DC Circuit's ruling in the al-Tamir (was al-Hadi) military commission case (rejecting the defendant's arguments about the adequacy of the government's proposed remedy for a situation in which the presiding military judge had made rulings while seeking employment elsewhere in the government).
* We have a National Cyber Director nominee at last, and it's a good one.
* SCOTUS and the Shadow Docket: insights from the Tandon ruling.
All that, plus the usual frivolity!
Apr 05, 2021
Episode 198: What Tattoo Should Steve Get?
Welcome back! This week your co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss and debate:
* The PCLOB's report on Executive Order 12,333
* The government's decision to shutter Camp 7 at GTMO, consolidating those detainees with others at Camp 5
* The proposed DC National Guard Home Rule Act
* The Supreme Court's decision to vacate and remand (for dismissal on mootness grounds) the Second Circuit's decision finding that President Trump violated the First Amendment by blocking followers on his Twitter account--and Justice Thomas's accompanying comments on ways that the First Amendment might be construed to apply to private social media platforms.
* A Fourth Circuit's ruling rejecting a Fifth Amendment Due Process challenge to the Terrorist Screening Database system
All that, plus opening day for the Mets!
Mar 26, 2021
Episode 197: Statler and Waldorf
Just in time for your weekend entertainment, NSL Podcast is back with a new episode. This time the show was recorded live before a (Zoom-based) audience of Texas Law alumni, which made for a nice change of pace! Tune in as co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss and debate:
* War Powers reform: whither the 1991, 2001, and 2002 AUFMs? Might there even be agreement on how to handle "associated forces" in a 2001 AUMF reform package?
* The Tsarnaev (Boston Marathon bombing) case: SCOTUS has granted cert on the jury issue, but will the Biden Administration still pursue the death penalty in general?
* Court martial jurisdiction
* Judicial deference on security matters -- including IEEPA and CCMC (Communist Chinese Military Companies) designations
* The Fourth Circuit reinstating the jury's decision convicting a man of acting as an (unregistered) foreign agent for Turkey
* An extradition of a North Korean citizen...how'd that happen?
Mar 10, 2021
Episode 196: Good…and Terrible!
An extra-fun episode because we have an extra person with us tonight: Texas Law 3L Jake Bishop, our special guest host! Jake, thanks for joining in the fun!
Tune in, as Jake and co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss:
* The return of the PPG? The Biden administration reinstates, for now, certain rules regarding the use of lethal force outside areas of active hostilities. Will it last? Does it matter?
* AUMF reform: the 2002 (and 1991!) AUMF version
* AUMF reform: the 2001 AUMF version
* The prospects for a "covert" response against Russian networks in relation to SolarWinds, and whether that makes any sense
* Steve's (apparently brutal) oral argument before the CAAF today
Oh, and apparently there is a sequel to Coming to America? Maybe they should have tried a bit harder on that one....
Mar 03, 2021
Episode 195: Sparkly Rainbow Snowboots!
Well, it's been a while, thanks to the ice/snow/power/water fiasco we recently underwent in Texas. But, though tired and not very prepared, we are back tonight! Tune in as co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss and debate:
* The domestic and international law grounds cited by the Biden administration for its recent airstrike in Syria
* An update on the situation regarding high-value Islamic State detainees held by the SDF in Syria (and whether they ever were in US custody)
* A note on the role of "true threat" charges in insurrection-related cases: how specific (if at all) must such charges be vis-a-vis the threatened object of the threat?
* More developments at GTMO
* The Biden administration's response to Kashoggi in comparison to its response to Navalny
And some rather-rambling frivolity, mostly in the anticipation for Coming 2 America dropping in a few days.
Feb 11, 2021
Episode 194: This Podcast Is Integrity-Curious
We had great fun recording this one, thanks to special guest Greg Gisvold (consultant and senior fellow with the Rule of Law Collaborative at the University of South Carolina) is the winner of a recent charity raffle in which the prize (or penalty???) was ... cohosting the show with us! That proved to be great news for us, for Greg's work around the globe working in support of rule-of-law-building programs couldn't be more interesting and important. Listen in to learn more, as we cover:
* The latest impeachment developments
* An update on Steve's litigation (at the Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces) on court martial jurisdiction and former servicemembers
* The delay of the Hambali (et al.) arraignment at GTMO
* Whither those high-value Islamic State detainees the US acquired from our Kurdish allies back in October 2019?
* And best of all, our interview with Greg Gisvold regarding rule of law capacity building around the globe
Stick around for a comically-overlong segment on the 1986 Mets, too. Seriously...we just kept talking about it, and having no editor, well, it's a long show as a result!
Feb 04, 2021
Episode 193: ‘Tis Better to Have Impeached and Lost …
This week on NSL Podcast, co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss
* The proposition that the First Amendment (particularly the Brandenburg rule) might matter for the Senate's trial of the impeachment of Donald Trump
* The D.C. Circuit's ruling rejecting subject-matter jurisdiction over Philip Sundel's attempt to gain access to a closed proceeding in the al Qosi litigation at the GTMO military commissions, with a special focus on the extensive dicta concerning the standing of agency employees to challenge the actions of their own agencies
* The controversy that erupted in light of news that KSM might be vaccinated
* The delay in the arraignment of Hambali and his co-defendants at GTMO
* The confirmation of Secretary Mayorkas at DHS, and the delay of a confirmation hearing for Garland to be AG
* The Biden administration's termination of certain Trump-era cases DOJ had been pressing to SCOTUS
* Canada's decision to formally list the Proud Boys as a terrorist organization, and why the same thing cannot (under current law) happen in the United States
This, plus some lollygagging Bull Durham style, and dueling predictions about the Super Bowl!
Jan 22, 2021
Episode 192: So…What Do We Do Now?
And then it was over. Wow. Here's hoping we can focus on traditional national security law topics from now on! Today is a pretty good start. We've got:
* A new administration needs a welcoming gift...so, here's a delightful basket of...military commission charges involving the Bali/Jakarta bombings???
* A parting gift from Army Secretary McCarthy: AR 190-8 no longer applicable at GTMO
* The DC Circuit weighs in on Hoda Muthana's citizenship status--ruling against her and thus also against her father's attempt to compel the government to support her return to the US from Syria (where she had been married, twice, to Islamic State fighters)
* The DC Circuit also weighs in on the Zaidan case, finding no standing to the sue the U.S. government for alleged targeting for drone strikes in Syria where the allegations of such targeting were deemed too speculative
* Larabee: apparently Steve is going to have do so more briefing soon regarding court martial jurisdiction over former servicemembers
* The WeChat suit in the 9th Circuit: Bobby review's last week's oral argument concerning the government's appeal of a preliminary injunction that suspended the Trump administration's IEEPA action against WeChat, citing First Amendment grounds. The First Amendment argument here is quite weak; time to send this one back for consideration instead of the IEEPA issue.
* Confirmation of Avril Haines as DNI, and passage of a statutory override that will allow the Senate to proceed to confirm General (ret.) Lloyd Austin as SecDef.
* Biden immediately rescinded the "national emergency proclamation" as to the Southern Border, ending the redirection of defense dollars towards "wall" projects.
That, plus loads of sportsball frivolity (yielding precious little insight!).
Jan 13, 2021
Episode 191: The Biggest Fiasco of Them All
We're back with further discussion of the insurrection:
* Is it constitutional for the Senate to carry on with trial of an Article of Impeachment if the impeached official is no longer in office? Yes, yes it is. Disqualification from future office is a separate and independent purpose of the trial phase, independent of removal from office; where it otherwise, any half-wit could avoid such punishment simply by resigning once it became clear they were likely to lose in the Senate.
* We review the strong statement of FBI and DOJ engagement in pursuing the ringleaders and others culpable for the January 6th attack.
* What really happened to the Would-Be-Acting-Twice-Nominated DHS Secretary Chad Wolf? It's a tale of statutory inevitability. At any rate, welcome to the front office Pete Gaynor!
* Does the disqualification-from-office provision of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment apply to Trump's outrageous conduct? Well, that 6:01pm tweet of his wants to make a case for providing aid-and-comfort to armed enemies of the Constitution and government of the United States...
* Mike Pompeo announces an Iran-al Qaeda team-up...what legal implications?
* Nightmare scenarios for the endgame period: watch out for domestic terrorism at iconic government-related locations away from the Inauguration.
* How great is it that the Mets picked up Francisco Lindor?
Jan 07, 2021
Episode 190: Day of Infamy
Today was a national tragedy of the first order. Tonight we discuss:
* the many crimes that definitely were committed, and certain other crimes -- particularly seditious conspiracy -- that may have been committed (and how that relates to the First Amendment Brandenburg test)
* the bizarre and indefensible lack of a strong police presence and a proper National Guard response (including an unpacking of the legal authorities governing control over DC's guard)
* some familiar -- and some not-so-familiar -- interpretive questions associated with the 25th Amendment (including not just the role of "Acting" secretaries, but also the question of what happens if the president's "rebuttal" letter is followed instantly by the firing of all the secretaries who signed the original letter)
* impeachment issue, including the prospect of proceedings lasting beyond January 20th...and the possibility of an outcome permanently barring Donald J. Trump from office
Jan 01, 2021
Episode 189: Merry New Year!
How about a surprise mini-episode on New Year's Eve??? Sure, why not! Tune in for...well, not much. We just wanted to say hi, happy new year, thanks for being listeners, and 2020-Don't-Let-The-Door-Hit-You-On-The-Way-Out!
Dec 22, 2020
Episode 188: Not *That* Enterprise
Hello from Austin, home of SolarWinds and CyberTrucks! [ed. note: uh, no. Let's go with home of bbq and tacos instead] We're back with another round of discussion and debate with Professors Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney, as they cover:
* Erica Newland's NY Times op-ed arguing that DOJ attorneys should have resigned early on during the Trump administration
* What exactly counts as a seditious conspiracy for purposes of (i) federal criminal law and (ii) the Uniform Code of Military Justice? Asking for a friend...
* The sudden rise, and apparent collapse, of a rushed attempt by DoD leadership to direct separation of NSA and Cyber Command
* Prospects for a veto override if Trump vetoes the NDAA tomorrow
* Section 1705 of the pending NDAA: an authority for DHS CISA that in some ways speaks directly to the flaws exposed by the SolarWinds debacle
* Al Shabaab's 9/11-style plot, and the compelling ordinariness of the Justice Department's decision to prosecute it in Manhattan
* Pan Am 103 back in the news: AG Barr announces charges against the bombmaker (who may also have made the bomb that struck La Belle Discotheque in Berlin)
And, of course, views on the Mandalorian season finale!
Dec 16, 2020
Episode 187: Trumplandia in the Twilight
Hey, we're back on our weekly schedule! How 'bout that...now we'll probably skip the next three, but hey, until then, we've got a quite a show, not to mention the launch of our holiday charity drive! What's that all about? Well, it's simple: give $5 or more to Casa Marianella, forward the emailed receipt that you get from them to ThisIsTheWay@strausscenter.org (.org, not .com!), and you will be entered in a drawing. What drawing? Well, after January 15, we'll pick one of the entries at random, and that person will be invited to join us (date to be determined jointly) to CO-HOST an episode with us! Do it! Do it! C'mon, do it!
What's that? Oh, right. This week's show actually talks about:
* Barr out, Rosen in
* The demise of the Ken Paxton (well, "Texas") election suit
* Electors doing their jobs, electors doing...something else
* The "Safe Harbor" rule and justiciability of electoral slate challenges
* The SolarWinds cybersecurity mess
* TikTok v. Trump: The DC Circuit seems poised to accept TikTok's IEEPA interpretation argument
* The roadmap to closing GTMO under the Biden administration (well, we are speculating, but still...)
* Did you know the Periodic Review Board authorized a GTMO transfer the other day? That's 6 approved for transfer, out of 40 remaining overall.
* Another trial judge for the 9/11 case...or one of the old ones is back.?
* DOD ending support for CIA Title 50 operations?
* The NDAA: veto or not?
* If not, then here's what Section 1702 does for Congressional oversight of "sensitive military cyber operations"
* The Supreme Court's Briggs decision: bad news for a certain podcast co-host
* Is it just me, or is this least really long?
* Frivolity: The Mandalorian of course. Or is it the Manladorian? (Google it)
Dec 08, 2020
Episode 186: Jumping the Kraken!
It's National Safe Harbor day (for all you Electoral College enthusiasts), and we're here to celebrate with a new show. Join for spirited but respectful debate between Professors Chesney and Vladeck as they discuss:
* The legal basis for a possible presidential action to compel Pfizer to bump the United States ahead of other countries when it comes to accessing vaccine doses beyond the 100m covered in the current contract
* Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton's attempt to get the Supreme Court to adjudicate a claim by Texas that the election results in Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania all should be thrown out
* The Supreme Court's ruling (granting injunctive relief) in Roman Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn v. Cuomo, concerning the application of the First Amendment Free Exercise Clause to New York's emergency rules on maximum-occupancy for purposes of pandemic control
* Whither the NDAA? We take note of the veto threat, and offer thoughts on selected issues in the bill including the GMTO and military commission-related provisions (or, in the latter case, the absence of one such provision), as well as the proposed National Cybersecurity Director
Plus, inevitably, a review of the latest episode of The Mandalorian, and appreciation for the New York Colt McCoys (Giants)!
Nov 30, 2020
Episode 185: The Blah-to-Coup Ratio is Increasing
And...we're back! Tune in as Professors Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss the latest in national security legal developments, including:
* Prospects for the Biden Administration to chart a new course with respect to (a) the use of military detention at GTMO, (b) the transfer of GTMO detainees approved for such transfer already, or (c) the use of military commissions as the vehicle for criminal prosecutions
* Prospects for the nomination to be Secretary of Defense, and the role of the federal statute requiring servicemembers to be out for at least seven years before becoming eligible for that (civilian) position
* Comments on the other national security nominees to this point
* More on the plethora of election-related lawsuits and the larger problem of bogus claims about massive fraud
* Steve's win in the Larrabee lawsuit, in which Judge Leon has now held that it is unconstitutional to subject separated servicemembers to face recall for court-martial prosecution for post-separation crimes
* The killing in Iran of a senior al Qaeda figure, and the related question of how the passage of time impacts (or does not impact) an individual's connection to the AUMF and the U.S. government's position on the existence of an armed conflict with al Qaeda
And, at long last, frivolity focused on The Mandalorian Season 2! (Plus, the improbable playoff prospects of the New York Giants, for whom anything is possible with Colt McCoy at the helm!)
Nov 11, 2020
Episode 184: Make Rule 11 Great Again!
In this week's episode, co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss and debate:
* The array of firings and appointments of senior Defense Department officials
* The law governing the General Services Administration and support for presidential transitions
* Whether it is appropriate to place pressure on Jones Day (and their other clients) based on the involvement of Jones Day lawyers in election-challenge lawsuits
* United States v. Maiorana: charge against a Staten Island man, under 18 USC 875(c) (threats of violence), based on vile online postings about killing protestors and government officials (raising First Amendment issues relating to the difference between the "True Threat" and "Incitement" categories)
* TikTok update: tomorrow (the 12th) is the CFIUS divestment deadline....what will happen next?
Since *someone* hasn't watched the first Mandalorian season 2 episodes yet, we are left to chat about the new owner of the Mets and the chances of a Dodgers/Yankees-style spending spree....
Nov 06, 2020
Episode 183: It’s Late, and We’re Loopy
We are back, but alas we're here to talk about the election! If you were hoping for a national security-focused escape from the election, well, we'll make it up to you soon)!
Oct 22, 2020
Episode 182: This Podcast Will Keep Going Until They Come For Us!
And we're back, after a(nother) week off! What do we have to show for it? Tune is as co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney as they review:
* Steve's Supreme Court argument in Briggs -- more military justice at SCOTUS!
* Speaking of the Court: whither the role of the Chief once he's not obviously the fifth vote? Who will be the new swing justice? And what to make of the Court's actions this week in the Pennsylvania and Alabama election cases?
* Meanwhile, over at the DOJ National Security Division:
* Russian military officers indicted for NotPetya and more
* A man convicted of material support who was nearing the end of his sentence just picked up an extra 25 years, for it turned out he was using his time to recruit others to carry out attacks and planning some future violence of his own
* Two web domains used by Kata'ib Hizballah--a sanctioned foreign terrorist organization--have been seized, for needless to say KH did not get themselves an OFAC license...
And then the long-awaited Tom Berenger frivolity! Jake, Barnes, Longstreet...much to discuss!
Oct 08, 2020
Episode 181: This Podcast Has Lots of Jitter
They may or may not have more presidential debates, but you'll always at least have us! Tune in for this week's episode as Professors Chesney and Vladeck review the latest national security law developments:
* The two so-called Islamic State "Beatles" have now arrived in Virginia to face criminal prosecution in civilian court.
* Meanwhile, the trial before a military commission of KSM and others charged with involvement in the 9/11 plot needs a judge, again.
* In a horrifying illustration of organized domestic terrorism, the FBI and DOJ today revealed the arrest of five men who were plotting to kidnap Michigan's governor (apparently with plans to them hold some kind of show trial, which then presumably would lead to her murder).
* The Second Circuit will not quash the subpoena issued by New York City's DA (Cy Vance Jr.) for Trump-related tax records.
* The 25th Amendment was in the news, bigly, last Friday as President Trump's health situation deteriorated; we spell out how it works, and then argue over the wisdom of having the Speaker of the House in the statutory order of succession for the presidency
* Where in the world is Steve Vladeck...in terms of oral arguments? He was in the Texas Supreme Court this week, and will be in the Supreme Court of the United States next Tuesday (for Briggs).
Meanwhile, we have one word of advice and one homework assignment for y'all:
ADVICE: WATCH TED LASSO!
HOMEWORK: Be prepared to identify the top 5 best, and bottom 5 worst, Tom Berenger movies (for next week's frivolity)!
Sep 29, 2020
Episode 180: This Podcast Really Should Be Weekly…
We're not a biweekly show, we promise! It just seems that way sometimes...like this week, when we are bringing you:
* Discussing the passing of Justice Ginsburg and potential implications of the Amy Coney Barrett nomination for national security and rule of law cases
* Breaking down the separate opinions enjoining IEEPA sanctions against WeChat (on First Amendment grounds) and TikTok (on IEEPA exception grounds)
* The FISC's 2019 Section 702 certification opinion and ongoing issues of compliance
* The Ninth Circuit's Moalin decision (finding statutory and Fourth Amendment problems with Section 215 bulk metadata collection)
* Trump's taxes: could someone with that sort of debt normally get a security clearance?
* Annals of the Bowe Berghdahl case: a military judge who had an eye on an immigration judgeship
* A new judge for the 9/11 trial
But skip all that if you are in the middle of debate prep, for we also have...a BINGO CARD for tonight!
Sep 16, 2020
Episode 179: This Podcast Is “Considerably Recalibrated”
So we took a week off without warning because, you know, 2020. But we're back, and we sure don't lack for things to discuss and debate! Tune in as co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney weigh in on:
* The NY Times story reporting a request from AFRICOM to expand targeting authorities involving al Shabaab in Kenya in particular.
* The President's denial, and then confirmation, that he favored trying to kill Bashar al-Assad.
* DOJ launching a criminal investigation of former National Security Advisor John Bolton.
* DOJ moving to interpose the U.S. government as defendant in a defamation suit stemming from President Trump's answer to questions relating to rape allegations.
* A federal judge's decision to invoke Lochner (!!!) en route to declaring various Pennsylvania public health measures unconstitutional.
* Whether the military can subject a person to court martial for an offense allegedly committed prior to a break in service, where the person already was prosecuted (unsuccessfully) in a state court.
* The latest twists and turns with TikTok and WeChat under IEEPA and CFIUS
And the Mandalorian trailer...OMG OMG OMG
Aug 31, 2020
Episode 178: What Would Robert Jackson Do?
We are back after a week off, and apparently your co-hosts used the extra time to sharpen disagreements about old school topics like ... GTMO! Tune in for:
* An extended debate over the D.C. Circuit's Al Hela decision, including everything from the scope of the NDAA FY'12 detention provisions to the applicability of the Due Process Clause at GTMO
* A shorter discussion of similar issues that also arose last week in the district court's ruling in Uthman
* About the Hatch Act....I mean, good heavens.
We also include a Chadwick Boseman appreciation, in lieu of our usual frivolity. And it somehow turns into a discussion of deep fakes, too.
Aug 21, 2020
Episode 177: This Podcast Does Not Have a Navy
We are back with a new episode, bringing you respectful disagreements and discussion--not to mention heaps of frivolity--about the latest national security law news. This week, co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss:
* Attorney General Barr's offer to eschew the death penalty in order to enable the UK to provide the US with inculpatory evidence against the two Islamic State "Beatles" detainees currently in US military custody...and his promise that they mean will be transferred to Iraq for prosecution if this doesn't occur by October 15.
* The GAO's legal memo concluding that the senior-most DHS officials do not hold their positions lawfully (thanks to the distinction between regular and "catastrophic" vacancy scenarios)
* The United States Postal Service strikes back...through the law enforcement officers in its Inspection Service. Didn't know that was a thing? Neither did Steve Bannon, most likely, but that's who arrested him...
* The Fifth Circuit won't show its cards with respect to whether the all-male military draft rule remains constitutional given that the role of women in the military has changed so much since Rostker...will SCOTUS take the case though?
* Some National Security Division updates
All that, plus 80s soundtrack frivolity!
Aug 10, 2020
Episode 176: This Podcast Won’t Play Football This Fall
We were out last week...what'd we miss?
Oh.
So, there was much we could have covered this week, but we decided to focus on these three:
* The First Circuit ruling vacating the Tsarnaev (Boston Marathon Bombing) death penalty based on concerns about jury bias
* The President's decision to sanction TikTok and WeChat
* Legal questions raised by the quartet of executive orders and other presidential directives over the weekend relating to COVID-19 economic relief, including an important federalism question relating to the scope of CDC/HHS pandemic-response authority.
As for frivolity: we discuss whether and how college football will unfold this fall (or maybe this spring, or maybe not at all), but more importantly we also ask listeners to weigh next week on an important topic: Best movie soundtracks of the 1980s. Which is pretty funny because, well, that was the subject of frivolity in Episode 50, and neither of us remembered that while recording the current episode! In fairness, that was fall 2017, which was like 623 years ago...
Jul 31, 2020
Episode 175: The President Has No Authority to Delay This Podcast
We delay this program just fine without his help, thank you very much. Well, I guess you can see what we are leading with this evening. The run-of-show:
* President Trump's suggestion about delaying the election
* Michael Cohen will be home, and writing, after all
* Michael Flynn, on the other hand, can't be so sure about staying home thanks to the en banc D.C. Circuit (until he gets a pardon, that is)
* The Tata nomination in tatters?
* Revisiting Portland and trying to zero in on the most significant elements in that story
* The Second Circuit's curious decision in Hassoun
All that plus live reactions as the Mets drop another one, as the NBA restarts, and as Watchmen quite rightly rakes in the Emmy nominations.
Jul 21, 2020
Episode 174: Portland Trailblazing
This week we don't lack for topics, to say the least. Tune in for in-the-weeds discussion of:
* Trumplandia meets Portlandia 1: What's the legal basis for DHS components engaging in law enforcement activity there?
* Trumplandia meets Portlandia 2: Since when can you just shoot a non-violent person in the head with a "less-than-lethal" round?
* Trumplandia meets Portlandia 3: What's the legal framework for DHS collection and analysis of intelligence relating to property-protective missions?
* Meanwhile, Michael Cohen litigates BOP's ability to send him back to jail for publishing a book
* Meanwhile, in regular law enforcement: terrorism charges for an MS-13 leader
* Meanwhile, at GTMO: A remarkable sanction against the government issued by the trial judge in the Majid Khan military commission case
* Meanwhile in Europe: The Court of Justice of the European Union blows up Privacy Shield based on concerns involving Section 702 and also 12,333 collection
* Meanwhile in the 9th Circuit: A sharp dispute over the interaction of FISA and the state-secrets privilege just might set the stage for SCOTUS to weigh in
And then, after all, we have what we must admit was a desultory frivolity segment. Though maybe that is purposeful performance art, projecting how the MLB "regular season" is going to feel...
Jul 10, 2020
Episode 173: This Is John Roberts’s Podcast
We're back, with a Supreme-Court focused episode! Tune in for:
* The Supreme Court's twin decisions in the New York grand jury and Congressional subpoena cases
* The consequences of those decisions for related litigation such as the Don McGahn subpoena case
* The McGirt decision on the Muskogee nation's control of territory in eastern Oklahoma
* The petition for en banc review in the Michael Flynn case
As for frivolity, how could it be anything other than the Hamilton movie?
Jul 02, 2020
Episode 172: Cleanup on Aisle Trump!
This week on NSL Podcast, co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney review and debate the latest national security legal news, including:
* Russian "bounties" on U.S. forces in Afghanistan, including (theoretical) legal implications
* A district court ruling finding the government lacks sufficient evidence to hold Adham Hassoun under Section 412 of the USA Patriot Act
* The Julian Assange prosecution: new fact allegations that might help distinguish his situation from that of conventional journalists
* An actual bill in the Senate addressing the "going dark"/Crypto Wars 2.0 debate: The Lawful Access to Encrypted Data Act
* SCOTUS roundup: Article II and the power to remove; extraterritorial constitutional rights; Congressional access to grand jury material; the Alien Tort Statute, foreign sovereign immunity
And for frivolity? In honor of the upcoming Disney+ stream of Hamilton, we consider the song (with a strong assist from Kirk Hamilton's Strong Songs podcast).
Jun 26, 2020
Episode 171: There’s a Spectrum of Corruption
We're back with an evening recording, as co-hosts Bobby Chesney and Steve Vladeck weigh in on:
* The D.C. Circuit's Mike Flynn ruling, and the likely path ahead
* The bizarre process of removing SDNY US Attorney Geoffrey Berman
* The Bolton book ruling
* The Veterans Memorial Preservation Act
* PCLOB's FISA session earlier this week
* The SCOTUS ruling on Expedited Removal and the Suspension Clause
And then we gripe, a bunch, about rules MLB did and did not adopt for their upcoming rump season.
Jun 19, 2020
Episode 170: This Podcast Is Not Subject to (Prior) Restraint
In the latest episode of the National Security Law Podcast, co-hosts Professors Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss:
* Juneteenth, the Emancipation Proclamation, and War Powers
* DOJ's doomed effort to get a prior restraint preventing publication of John Bolton's already widely-distributed book (and, in contrast, DOJ's strong prospects for getting a constructive trust for breach of contract)
* Espionage Act liability for leaking national security information: a 30-month sentence for a former DIA analyst this week, and speculation about how it would look if DOJ took this approach with John Bolton
* The Supreme Court's DACA ruling: wrestling with the nuances of the decision
* There were no National Guard air assets conducting surveillance in DC...unless maybe there were?
* There were no Pennsylvania National Guard personnel in DC...unless maybe there were?
* Oh, look, international armed conflict between China and India...
* The Uighur Human Rights Policy Act of 2020 becomes law: understanding how it relates to IEEPA, where it does and does not provide wiggle room for the president, and whether its plain terms warrant application to President Xi and other senior Chinese officials.
As for frviolity: Sportsball is almost back...but will the NBA or MLB really deliver games?
Jun 12, 2020
Episode 169: Now We’re a Third Amendment Podcast
After an extra-long break, we are back...and swamped! Tune in for debate and discussion of, among other things:
* The National Guard deployments to Washington, DC, including questions of status, command, and authority
* The special circumstances of the DC National Guard (and, relatedly, the issue of DC statehood)
* The Third Amendment, hotels, and originalism???
* Civ-Mil relations and the weird weeks for General Milley and Secretary Esper
* The Tom Cotton Op-Ed and the NY Times' response to the fallout from it
* The NDAA and proposals to mandate renaming of US military bases named for Confederate Generals
* GTMO, military commissions, the Majid Khan ruling (to the effect that torture can be cited as grounds for mitigation at sentencing), and implications for the 9/11 prosecution and capital punishment
* President Trump's Executive Order declaring a national emergency vis-a-vis the prospect of ICC action against U.S. personnel, and the corresponding creation of a sanctions regime against not just ICC personnel involved in such actions but also against those who materially support them.
And a surprisingly belated-yet-timely review of HBO's Watchmen series. Seriously, if you haven't watched it yet, get started!
Jun 02, 2020
Episode 168: On the Brink with the Insurrection Act
Tonight we bring you a special episode, recorded jointly with Ben Wittes as an episode of the Lawfare Podcast. Ben, Bobby, and Steve explore the threatened invocation of the Insurrection Act by President Trump, the president's existing use of the DC National Guard, the president's assertion that he will designate Antifa as a "domestic terrorist organization," and the use of tear gas and rubber bullets to clear protesters out of Lafayette Square Park in order to facilitate a presidential photo op.
May 21, 2020
Episode 167: Podcast Emergency Action Documents
Welcome back to the nerdiest national security law show around! Tune in this week for debate and discussion between Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney regarding:
* Inspector General firings
* Presidential Emergency Action Documents
* Mike Flynn's sentencing as the OJ Simpson Trial
* Apple, FBI, and the Pensacola AQAP plot as the latest salvo in the Going Dark/Cryptowars debate
* The ruling of Germany's Federal Constitutional Court in the BND surveillance case
* The D.C. Circuit ruling in Ali, a GTMO habeas case concerning the application (or not) of the Due Process Clause
All that...and, well, Sofia the First and Elena of Avalor.
May 14, 2020
Episode 166: This Podcast Has Temporary Absolute Immunity
Welcome back to the National Security Law Podcast, after a one-week hiatus! (You can actually watch the recording here, if you need more Zoom in your life). In this episode, Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss and debate:
* This week's SCOTUS oral arguments in the Trump business subpoena cases. Is a pragmatic compromise in the works? Will the DA and HPSCI emerge winners?
* DOJ called, and they want to abandon their successful prosecution of Mike Flynn because...well, res ipsa loquitor.
* Speaking of Mike Flynn, the "unmasking" pseudo-controversy is back.
* FISA amendment mayhem! A bid to prevent use of Section 215 for browser records *just* fails to make it into the Senate bill, and then a boost to the amicus system--and the rules on disclosure of exculpatory evidence and on Woods procedures compliance--makes it over the goal line easily. But will the House follow suit?
* Something about war powers something something veto or something...is anyone watching???
And then there was the season finale of Westworld. It's like they just ran out of good ideas...
May 02, 2020
Episode 165: This Podcast Prefers Its Nothing Burgers to Be Medium Rare
What a fun episode! Co-hosts Bobby Chesney and Steve Vladeck recorded "live" before the Austin Bar Association, as the finale of their day-long Zoom conference. On tap:
* The ODNI report on FISA statistics: We have a detailed discussion of the highlights, focusing on whether there is cause for alarm in the renews that FBI in some instances failed to get a warrant (as required by statute) before accessing the content of U.S. person communications incidentally collected via 702.
* Pandemia: What's the real story with the latest Defense Production Act order, the one directed at the meat-processing industry?
* Flynn-sanity: Will Mike Flynn be pardoned, and if not will recent developments involving the FBI's activities impact his sentence?
* Will the Supreme Court pave the way for judicial enforcement of Congressional subpoenas of Trump business records, or will it instead foreclose that possibility (and much more than that)?
* Hey, look, another judge for the 9/11 case at GTMO!
All that, plus a review of WestWorld episode 7.
Apr 22, 2020
Episode 164: LIBERATE THIS PODCAST!
Is this our most-substantive episode ever? No, no it's not. Is it a sign that co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney are going a bit stir crazy? Perhaps so. Does it feature cute cameos from Steve's kids and his dog? Yes, that it does! (Which is why you probably want to peek at the Zoom video recording of the session, which is here!) At any rate, tune in for:
* Pandemia: We discuss and debate the implications of the Attorney General's cryptic reference to the possibility of Justice Department intervention in litigation against states in connection with state public health policies. More war on federalism, or nothing-to-see-here?
* GTMO has a new Convening Authority! (Sorry, did you say "What's a Convening Authority"????)
* SCOTUS wants to weigh in, at last, on the meaning of "exceeds authorized access" in the Computer Fraud & Abuse Act. This could turn into the second-most-famous Van Buren!
That's actually it for substance. But don't think they won't talk for 15 minutes about WestWorld.
Apr 16, 2020
Episode 163: This Podcast Will Have a Very Powerful Reopening
And we're back, with discussion of the latest national security law news. (Video of the show here!) This week, co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney nerd out with the details on:
* Can he do that? President Trump says he might adjourn Congress so as to be able to use his recess-appointment power. Inquiring minds want to know: is that a thing?
* Oh, also: can he do that? President Trump also says he has "total authority" over whether and when the economy should reopen, and Vice President Pence says that POTUS has "plenary" power in this emergency setting. Inquiring minds also want to know if that is a thing. So, we end up with a somewhat-deep dive into, of all things, the Supreme Court's decision in In re Debs.
* Wait, who's the judge now? There's yet another new trial judge for the 9/11 case at GTMO. What's the record for a single trial??? Meanwhile, it appears that this one has denied a defense request for access to otherwise-unavailable parts of the SSCI "Torture report."
But forget all that. The real action, as usual, is the frivolity. Westworld's latest episode is on tap!
Apr 08, 2020
Episode 162: The Penn Is Mightier Than the Sword!
We are "live" from Penn Law today! Thanks to the Penn Law National Security Society, not to mention the magic of Zoom, we recorded today with a virtual audience. Tune in for your co-hosts, Professors Chesney and Vladeck, as they debate:
* Paracha v. Trump: A blast from the past: a district court habeas ruling on the legal and factual foundations for holding a GTMO military detainee, one that raises fascinating (and relatively novel) questions about the use of military detention in circumstances where the detainee might not be a member of an AUMF-covered group but who did provide material support to such a group. This in turn leads to a debate about the relevance of international law to that question, and then that leads to a discussion of what international law actually has to say about such fact patterns.
* Pandemia:
* We've got an actual, real-live action under the Defense Production Act: a ventilator-production contract with GM! We review the direct use (and non-use) of "the P!", noting how the mere invocation of it (even without actual use) not only plays a political role but also, perhaps, plays a subtle but important role in changing negotiation postures.
* We've got a fascinating Fifth Circuit decision, In re Abbott, that raises complex doctrinal questions about how to reconcile the compelling state interest in public health during a pandemic with individual rights claims (in this case abortion rights, but there are plenty of other possibilities), and what the right reading of Jacobson v. Massachusetts (1905) is with respect to that question. Does all rights claims reduce to the protections of mere rational basis review in such settings? Or should we instead apply the usual doctrinal frameworks for analysis of a particular right, but with full recognition of the unusually-compelling nature of the offsetting government interest? For example, would you really apply mere rational-basis review if a state decided to make it a crime to advocate in favor of relaxing shelter-in-place rules?
* Modly, we hardly knew ye! Modly's ill-advised speech to the crew of the Theodore Roosevelt went over like a lead balloon...one that eventually landed on his own head. (ed. note: that makes no sense....)
* Beware, IGs! It's legal for the president to remove them, but is it right to do so?
* FISC fallout from Horowitz Part II: Horowitz is one IG who is not on the hotseat, it's safe to say! Hot on the heels of his report blasting FBI for shoddy compliance with its own "Woods procedures," the FISC is out with a strict order demanding to know whether those compliance problems might eventually have led to incorrect or incomplete representations to the FISC...and, what's more, it wants such scouring done not just for the 29 cases Horowitz sampled but also across the FISC docket, with bimonthly reporting to the FISC on progress. Not a fun time to work at FBI GC!
* Sandig v. Barr - Judge Bate holds that to violate the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act's "unauthorized access" condition, one must engage in some kind of circumvention of security measures, and that it's not enough that you are unauthorized in the separate sense of doing something that violates "terms of use/service." This will help solidify a trend of rulings in that direction.
But enough law and policy. Gimme WestWorld Season 3, Episode 4!
Apr 02, 2020
Episode 161: This Podcast Was Recorded “Before There Were Privacy Laws”
It's not April Fool's trick, we really are back with a new episode covering the latest in national security law news. Watch the video here, if you aren't getting enough Zoom. This week we've got:
* DOJ's Inspector General has come out with the first of what may be a series of reports on the quality of FBI's procedures in preparing FISA applications. This one is about compliance with the "Woods Procedures," and it is not a positive story for FBI. We explain, and we debate what follows from this.
* Will we see more uses of force against Iranian proxies in Iraq? A New York Times article and a presidential tweet raise the question.
* Meanwhile, returning to our all-too-familiar pandemic beat: we note the emergence of various rights claims--free exercise, abortion, guns--in relation to shelter-in-place/business-closure rules
Best of all, of course, is the frivolity. If you are keeping up with WestWorld, we talk Episode 3 this week.
Mar 27, 2020
Episode 160: This Podcast Is Invoking “P”!
This is our second lockdown episode, simulcast as a Zoom-based video! If you didn't believe us before about our commitment to production authenticity, well you will if you watch the video version! [ed. note: guys, that's not funny, you can't blow off your lack of production values and slapdash approach to all this by claiming it makes you "authentic"!] You should be able to download it here: https://utexas.app.box.com/v/NSLepisode160
Happily, we are joined this week by Prof. Jen Daskal from American University's Washington College of Law. Jen is our first two-time guest on the show (our first live event was with her students at American last year)! Tune in for discussions of:
* The power of the federal government (or lack thereof) in relation to state public health directives to shelter-in-place or otherwise restricting movement
* The President's emphatic invocation of "P!" directed at GM today...to which we say, covfefe!
* What might occur in the weeks ahead in relation to data-gathering in support of public health measures (especially exposure-tracking and quarantine enforcement)
* The United Kingdom's Supreme Court ruling in "the Beatles" case, refusing to allow the Home Secretary to pass the fruits of a British criminal investigation to the US Justice Department because the United States intends to seek the Death Penalty in that case. Will we now see a shift to prosecution without the death penalty, or instead ongoing military detention? And if the latter, will it hold up in court?
And then there's the frivolity. If you are ready to talk Picard or West World, we are here for you!
Mar 21, 2020
Episode 159: This Podcast Is Zoom-y!
We may be on home lockdown, but that didn't stop us from recording! Thanks to the magic of Zoom, we gathered online to record this episode, and just for kicks we recorded the video while we were at it. So, if you ever wondered what sort of faces we make at each other while recording, well, now's your chance. We'll put the link for the video out, via the NSL Podcast twitter feed (@nslpodcast). Enjoy!
As for substance:
* The expiration of the Lone Wolf, Roving Wiretap, and Section 215 authorities, and the current uncertainty over whether they'll be renewed eventually
* The current pandemic: we explore the major categories of potential federal action, distinguishing the missing efforts to boost the supply of PPE, ventilators, and the like from topics like federal quarantines, travel restrictions, and infection-exposure surveillance. Where is the Manhattan Project/Moonshot level effort to surge production???
* Reports of a DOJ proposal for legislation addressing criminal justice process when courts are shutdown or disrupted by the pandemic. Is it a Suspension when there's a suspension of operations?
And then there's Picard. We review the two most-recent episodes!
Mar 11, 2020
Episode 158: What SCOTUS Can Learn from Franklin Barbecue
Are you "working" from home now? Perhaps it's time to take a break and enjoy the latest episode of the National Security Law Podcast. In a discussion that takes the goal of let's-not-prepare-too-much to new heights, your co-hosts Professors Bobby Chesney and Steve Vladeck are back to talk about:
* potential reauthorization this week of the three FISA provisions that otherwise will expire on March 15th
* the public-health imperative of flattening the curve when it comes to the spread of COVID-19 (that is: the critical need to ensure cases don't outpace hospital capacity, including especially ICU capacity), and the resulting need for preemptive social-distancing measures
* today's release of the Cyber Solarium Report (ok, they don't really talk about it, but they do note that it happened!)
* a recent speech by the Defense Department General Counsel regarding the law of military cyber operations
* another recent speech by the Defense Department General Counsel, this one setting out the most-detailed argument we have yet seen from the U.S. government regarding the domestic and international legal issues associated with the Soleimani airstrike
* a D.C. District Court decision finding that Army Regulation 190-8 is legally enforceable via habeas as to a GTMO detainee, and on that basis concluding that a medical-necessity repatriation may be in order for one of the detainees
* a decision by the International Criminal Court to authorize its prosecutor's office to investigate war crimes in Afghanistan, including allegations of American war crime (well, like the Solarium report, we don't so much talk about this as we note it occurred and promise to talk about it more...later)
And, of course, we talk about the latest episode of Picard. Your frivolity homework, by the way, is to watch the season premiere of Westworld next week. And note: no episode next week, due to Spring Break. We'll be back after that!
Mar 04, 2020
Episode 157: At Least There Are No Zombies…Yet
Back-to-back episodes! After yesterday's interview-focused show, we wanted to get right back into the mix with discussion and debate over the latest national security law news. Tune in for:
* Beyond quarantine: What happens when local authorities declare an emergency and then bar people *released* from quarantine from being in the city? San Antonio wants to find out...
* So Ken Cuccinelli is *not* the Acting Director at US CIS, because he was not properly made the "first assistant" in the chain of succession. Or so says the other Randy Moss.
* FISA FOIA fix? A court finds that when the White House said they declassified some Carter Page FISA material, but had not actually done so, FOIA's national security exemption still applied as a result.
* Peace with the Afghan Taliban? We will see. And we will see, too, what this might mean for "unraveling" the background premise that the law of armed conflict remains applicable as between the United States and al Qaeda-related detainees still in military detention at GTMO.
* What does it signify to say that someone "loyally gets appointed"? A grammatical mess, perhaps, but the phrase nicely captures the current President's (already familiar) understanding: if you work anywhere in his organization, personal loyalty is job one.
* Loads of developments relating to the Trump administration's immigration policies, particularly relating to asylum claimants.
But nevermind all that. Tune in just for the Picard frivolity at the end!
Mar 03, 2020
Episode 156: This Podcast Is VUCA!
We are back with an interview-focused episode! Tune in as Professors Chesney and Vladeck interview Brigadier General John G. Baker, USMC. General Baker is Chief Defense Counsel for the military commissions at Guantanamo.
And, yes, there's frivolity at the end...Bills-themed frivolity!
Feb 26, 2020
Episode 155: This Podcast Is Not Wearing a Facemask (But It Did Wash Its Hands)
This week in the wild world of national security law, your co-hosts Professors Vladeck and Chesney discuss and debate:
* The prospects for legislative change to FISA (the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act), including notes on a currently-pending bill in the House
* Trumplandia and the ODNI: The statutory deadline for the Acting ODNI (now Richard Grenell) to continue to perform that function is March 12. That deadline will be tolled by an actual nomination, but failing a nomination what then? Tune in to find out.
* Trumplandia and the courts
* The City of Costa Mesa sues everybody after learning that the CDC might send asymptomatic but covid-19 positive individuals into isolation there.
* SCOTUS rejects Bivens status in Hernandez, the cross-border shooting case
* Judge Leon declines to dismiss the Larabee suit (challenging the idea that retired servicemembers remain subject to UCMJ jurisdiction.
And then, for frivolity: a review of the new Star Wars ride (Rise of the Resistance) at Disneyland; a review of Come From Away; and a review of the latest episodes of Picard.
Feb 19, 2020
Episode 154: This Podcast Is Not Just a “Piece of Metal”
This week on NSL Podcast, co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss and debate:
* The U.S. government's formal statement to Congress on the legal rationale for its airstrike against General Soleimani
* Trumplandia and law enforcement: the related, but distinct, issues associated with the use of the Pardon Power and the relationship between the President and federal prosecutors
* Does 18 USC 1114 apply extraterritorially? A D.C. Circuit panel holds that the federal statute making it a felony to murder a federal officer does not apply overseas.
* Judicial clerkships: Not a national security topic, but an important one for law students--and the rest of us--to ponder.
The frivolity this week was supposed to be a review of the three most recent episodes of Picard. But no, Bobby had to go and ruin it by calling a halt to the recording right at the end in order to go attend some "meeting." Likely story! Alas, no Picard until next week. On the other hand, there's some spontaneous frivolity at the beginning of the show regarding the Astros scandal. So, you've got that going for you, which is nice!
Feb 12, 2020
Episode 153: This Podcast Has All the Elsas (But No Eminem)
And we're back, with a fresh episode at last. Tune in as co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney discuss and debate the latest national security law developments. This week they cover:
* Donald Trump pressuring Main DOJ to override the sentencing recommendation made by line prosecutors in order to help Roger Stone
* Donald Trump pressuring DOD to retaliate against Lt. Col. Vindman (followed by, coincidentally, our discussion of the Military Whistleblower Protection Act)
* A quick overview of federal quarantine law, just in case...
* The case of Omar Ameen and legal issues associated with non-refoulement
* The War Powers bill in the Senate: what would it actually mean to "withdraw" from hostilities with Iran, while still being in Iraq and Syria to fight the Islamic State?
* Steve gets all the colors! (You have to listen to find out what that means)
We end, as always, with frivolity. Oscar awards recap time!
Jan 29, 2020
Episode 152: John Bolton Is Welcome to Testify on this Podcast
After a wholly-frivolous episode last week, we are back with...well...a slightly-frivolous episode this week. Tune in as your co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney review and debate:
* The likely procedural, jurisdictional, and other legal issues that may arise if and when the Senate issues a subpoena to John Bolton and the White House attempts to prevent his testimony.
* The Justice Department's recent decision to concede the impropriety of two of the FISA Title I applications that had been submitted to the FISC in relation to Carter Page, and what this might mean as we continue to barrel towards the Ides of March deadline for renewal (or not) of four FISA authorities.
* Testimony at GTMO from the architects of the "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" program CIA used on high-value detainees, reminding us among other things that the 9/11 trial is supposed to start in (checks watch) less than a year.
* Eddie Gallagher's decision to denounce the servicemembers who testified against him, and then to circulate information about precisely where those people can be found, might seem merely bad taste in the case of a civilian. But for a retired servicemember subject to recall, and subject as well to the rather broad scope of certain UCMJ offenses, might the answer be different?
The show concludes with a reminiscence about Kobe Bryant, and then a review of...Picard, of course!
Jan 22, 2020
Episode 151: This Podcast Deserves (at Least) One Vote for the Hall of Fame
Oh heavens, what were they thinking? This week on the National Security Law Podcast, your hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney bring you...well, not a single second of national security law talk. Nope, instead this episode is all-frivolity from start to finish. Movies, tv, sports, books...anything but the actual topic of the show! But, hey, maybe you could use a break from the headlines? Rest assured, we'll be back next week with our usual format.
Jan 16, 2020
Episode 150: This Podcast Can’t Spell Sesquicenteninial!
It's episode 150, and to celebrate we have a special guest: The Director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA), Christopher Krebs! That's right, we've got all the cybers this week, and a fun guest to walk us all through it. That, plus a smattering of sign-stealing frivolity and Rush appreciation! We'll be back next week with our usual takes on the news...
Jan 06, 2020
Episode 149: This Podcast Will Not Serve as a Notification to Anyone About Anything
Not surprisingly, this weeks episode focuses entirely on the set of legal and policy questions raised by the airstrike that killed, among other, the Iranian general Qassim Soleimani in Iraq. But of course there is still frivolity, too, as the show finishes with discussion of ... Frozen II.
Dec 18, 2019
Episode 148: This Podcast Is “Thug #7”
Tired of watching the impeachment? Turn away from your monitor/tv, put in your earbuds, and go for a nice walk while listening to the latest National Security Law Podcast! This week we have Professors Chesney and Vladeck discussing and debating:
* The DOJ OIG Report and its account of 17 significant errors associated with the FBI's presentation of information in the series of FISA Title I applications concerning Carter Page. This, of course, leads to a larger discussion of FISA reform.
* SCOTUS designates March as Subpoena-palooza month! That's right, oral argument in all three Trump-related subpoena cases will occur in consolidated fashion then, with an opinion then expected by the end of June.
* The National Defense Authorization Act for FY'20 is on its way to the President's desk, and will soon be law.
But what you really want to know, of course, is ... how was the Dear Evan Hansen performance the other night? Your cohosts were there, and have a report!
Dec 10, 2019
Episode 147: Sometimes You Get a Donald J. Trump
Welcome back to the National Security Law Podcast! This week we discuss:
* The two Articles of Impeachment
* The Inspector General's Report on the origins and conduct of the FBI's investigation into Russian election interference
* Amazon's lawsuit arguing that President Trump improperly influenced the DOD cloud contract bid selection
* The NDAA and the legal framework for DoD to conduct (and counter) grey zone information operations
* The investigative report on persistent overstatement of success in Afghanistan
* The attempt to Dzokhar Tsarnaev to make a claim for juror/prosecutor bias in the Bostom Marathon bombing case
* The decision to suspend the process of designating 1 or more Mexican drug cartels as Foreign Terrorist Organizations
That, plus some frivolous commentary on football. Alas, no review (yet) of Mandalorian episode 5....
Dec 04, 2019
Episode 146: What’s In Your Wallet? A Subpoena!
Welcome back to the National Security Law Podcast! Tune in as Professors Vladeck and Chesney debate and discuss the week's national security law news, including:
* Trumplandia: The House Intelligence Committee's report shines a spotlight on certain call records, leading some to question how such records lawfully are obtained by investigators. This leads to a discussion of the Fourth Amendment, the third-party doctrine, the Stored Communications Act, and both grand jury and congressional subpoenas.
* More Trumplandia: The Second Circuit has ruled against an effort to prevent Deutsche Bank and Capital One from complying with a Congressional subpoena for Trump-related records, adding to the slew of cases on this topic.
* Adham Hassoun and indefinite immigration-law detention for dangerous persons: Back in episode 116 we noted that Hassoun had completed his 15-year sentence (following a conviction for involvement in a murder conspiracy under 18 USC 956(a)), but is being held pending removal...with little prospect for effecting that removal, given his stateless-status. He is now subject to the not-previously-used USA PATRIOT Act Section 412 authority, which involves an initial 7-day window for detention and then calls for semi-annual judicial review. The case presents both procedural due process and substantive due process issues.
* Designating Mexican drug cartels as "foreign terrorist organizations"--President Trump says this is in the works at last, so we review the legal and policy aspects.
* National Security Division Roundup: We offer brief notes on a few major recent developments in terrorism-related cases.
But it's all about the frivolity, so stay till the end for our idle opinions on what ought to happen with the College Football Playoffs final four, and especially for our take on episode 4 of the Mandalorian.
Nov 26, 2019
Episode 145: The Meh-mometer Is Stuck at Meh
Happy Thanksgiving to all! If you are stuck in an airport or on a long drive this week, we've got you covered for at least one hour, as Professors Chesney and Vladeck discuss and debate:
* The military commission cases: we provide a full "reset" bringing you up to speed on where things stand with each of the major cases (including a reminder about an important pending motion in the 9/11 case)
* National Cupcake Day gives way to the Ides of March, as Congress pushes the sunset for several notable FISA provisions from 12/15/19 to 3/15/20
* The Secretary Esper/Spencer dispute and the good-order-and-discipline issue raised by the president's intervention in the Gallagher case
* CENTCOM and SDF get the band back together in Syria, and detainees result...which is a timely reminder that we still depend on SDF to run detention ops in Syria.
* Subpoena time for Don McGahn? We consider the prospects on appeal, as well as the implications for former National Security Advisor John Bolton.
But of course what you really want to know is what your hosts think of episode 3 of the Mandalorian. That, plus Lamar Jackson!
Apr 02 | 01:27:21
Episode 245: 100 Days Later…
Dec 23 | 01:11:56
Episode 244: Not Our 30th Episode of 2023
Nov 28 | 01:19:00
Episode 243: Boiled Froggy Water Under the Bridge
Sep 29 | Unknown
Episode 242: A Rule of Law (and Punctuation) Free Episode!
Aug 22 | 01:16:21
Episode 241: Let’s Barbie!
Aug 08 | 01:04:20
Episode 240: Something Got Released
Jul 11 | 01:22:18
Episode 239: We Have Many Tapestries!
Jun 12 | 00:58:56
Episode 238: The World Wonders
Apr 25 | 01:19:09
Episode 237: Are You Not Detained???
Apr 05 | 00:50:57
Episode 236: Damn the Torpedoes!
Mar 16 | 01:09:11
Episode 235: A Drone Struck
Feb 23 | 01:08:07
Episode 234: Not *That* Linda Hamilton
Feb 14 | 01:12:55
Episode 233: This Episode Was (Not) Written by ChatGPT
Feb 09 | 00:41:18
Episode 232: Top Gun 3: Deflategate!
Jan 24 | 00:55:24
Episode 231: If You Go to Washington Don’t Crime There
Jan 17 | 00:54:39
Episode 230, Not Section 230
Jan 02 | 01:15:18
Episode 229: We Are Not Not Going to Post Weekly in 2023 Maybe
Dec 13 | 01:05:33
Episode 228: Not *That* George Clinton!
Nov 14 | 01:11:47
Episode 227: Maybe This Episode Should Pay to Get Verified
Oct 18 | 00:50:55
Episode 226: What Is a Court Anyway?
Sep 01 | 00:54:08
Episode 225: Appetite for Obstruction
Aug 16 | 01:31:48
Episode 224: Mar-a-Lag-o-Palooza
Aug 09 | 01:23:07
Episode 223: The Search for Episode 222!
Jun 28 | 00:52:22
Episode 221: GWOT Shots, Part Deux
Jun 07 | 01:03:03
Episode 220: This Podcast Made the Kessel Run In Less than 12 Parsecs
May 17 | 00:51:44
Episode 219: And the Podcast Host-Designate Is …
Apr 27 | 00:58:14
Episode 218: From 28(j) to Enterprise-J
Mar 28 | 00:57:07
Episode 217: Talking With Matt Olsen About DOJ National Security Division
Mar 08 | 01:03:14
Episode 216: This Podcast Does Not Constitute Legal Advice
Feb 22 | 01:01:12
Episode 215: Rhyming or Outright Repeating?
Feb 01 | 00:38:42
Episode 214: What Month Is This Anyway?
Jan 20 | 01:06:17
Episode 213: Most Likely to Engage in a Seditious Conspiracy
Dec 17 | 01:12:43
Episode 212: Nakatomi Plaza Holiday Office Party Edition
Nov 09 | 01:08:09
Episode 211: Behold, our Q4 episode
Oct 06 | 01:07:46
Episode 210: The Witness Who Became a Meme
Sep 10 | 01:08:50
Episode 209: The 20th Anniversary of 9/11
Aug 16 | 00:49:18
Episode 208: Afghanistan
Aug 11 | 01:15:35
Episode 207: Pearls Are In the Eye of the Beholder
Jul 13 | 01:17:15
Episode 206: This Podcast Is Not a State Actor
Jun 28 | 01:10:41
Episode 205: Road Trip!
Jun 15 | 01:22:20
Episode 204: [Insert Inscrutable Title Here]
May 24 | 00:51:51
Episode 203: Resistance Is Feudal (aka an interview with CISA’s Eric Goldstein)
May 20 | 00:49:39
Episode 202: Back in Steve’s Office
May 07 | 00:34:19
Episode 201: Revels, Revolts, and Reduxes…Part Deux
Apr 20 | 01:35:10
Episode 200: 5% of the Way to Episode 4000!
Apr 13 | 01:19:14
Episode 199: Why Is There No SJA Aboard the Starship Enterprise?
Apr 05 | 01:01:16
Episode 198: What Tattoo Should Steve Get?
Mar 26 | 00:56:07
Episode 197: Statler and Waldorf
Mar 10 | 01:29:49
Episode 196: Good…and Terrible!
Mar 03 | 01:07:32
Episode 195: Sparkly Rainbow Snowboots!
Feb 11 | 01:19:33
Episode 194: This Podcast Is Integrity-Curious
Feb 04 | 01:10:56
Episode 193: ‘Tis Better to Have Impeached and Lost …
Jan 22 | 01:11:50
Episode 192: So…What Do We Do Now?
Jan 13 | 01:04:43
Episode 191: The Biggest Fiasco of Them All
Jan 07 | 00:52:32
Episode 190: Day of Infamy
Jan 01 | 00:09:32
Episode 189: Merry New Year!
Dec 22 | 01:01:03
Episode 188: Not *That* Enterprise
Dec 16 | 01:13:51
Episode 187: Trumplandia in the Twilight
Dec 08 | 01:07:26
Episode 186: Jumping the Kraken!
Nov 30 | 01:01:56
Episode 185: The Blah-to-Coup Ratio is Increasing
Nov 11 | 00:52:39
Episode 184: Make Rule 11 Great Again!
Nov 06 | 01:07:02
Episode 183: It’s Late, and We’re Loopy
Oct 22 | 00:52:15
Episode 182: This Podcast Will Keep Going Until They Come For Us!
Oct 08 | 00:46:48
Episode 181: This Podcast Has Lots of Jitter
Sep 29 | 01:24:41
Episode 180: This Podcast Really Should Be Weekly…
Sep 16 | 01:14:00
Episode 179: This Podcast Is “Considerably Recalibrated”
Aug 31 | 01:13:06
Episode 178: What Would Robert Jackson Do?
Aug 21 | 01:07:05
Episode 177: This Podcast Does Not Have a Navy
Aug 10 | 01:11:53
Episode 176: This Podcast Won’t Play Football This Fall
Jul 31 | 01:23:06
Episode 175: The President Has No Authority to Delay This Podcast
Jul 21 | 01:10:20
Episode 174: Portland Trailblazing
Jul 10 | 01:17:46
Episode 173: This Is John Roberts’s Podcast
Jul 02 | 01:02:09
Episode 172: Cleanup on Aisle Trump!
Jun 26 | 01:21:05
Episode 171: There’s a Spectrum of Corruption
Jun 19 | 01:09:54
Episode 170: This Podcast Is Not Subject to (Prior) Restraint
Jun 12 | 01:29:19
Episode 169: Now We’re a Third Amendment Podcast
Jun 02 | 00:53:23
Episode 168: On the Brink with the Insurrection Act
May 21 | 01:06:04
Episode 167: Podcast Emergency Action Documents
May 14 | 01:34:11
Episode 166: This Podcast Has Temporary Absolute Immunity
May 02 | 01:12:01
Episode 165: This Podcast Prefers Its Nothing Burgers to Be Medium Rare
Apr 22 | 00:58:21
Episode 164: LIBERATE THIS PODCAST!
Apr 16 | 01:17:22
Episode 163: This Podcast Will Have a Very Powerful Reopening
Apr 08 | 01:17:01
Episode 162: The Penn Is Mightier Than the Sword!
Apr 02 | 01:18:47
Episode 161: This Podcast Was Recorded “Before There Were Privacy Laws”
Mar 27 | 01:09:26
Episode 160: This Podcast Is Invoking “P”!
Mar 21 | 01:11:13
Episode 159: This Podcast Is Zoom-y!
Mar 11 | 00:44:30
Episode 158: What SCOTUS Can Learn from Franklin Barbecue
Mar 04 | 00:56:41
Episode 157: At Least There Are No Zombies…Yet
Mar 03 | 00:46:15
Episode 156: This Podcast Is VUCA!
Feb 26 | 01:00:25
Episode 155: This Podcast Is Not Wearing a Facemask (But It Did Wash Its Hands)
Feb 19 | 00:44:53
Episode 154: This Podcast Is Not Just a “Piece of Metal”
Feb 12 | 01:05:25
Episode 153: This Podcast Has All the Elsas (But No Eminem)
Jan 29 | 01:09:46
Episode 152: John Bolton Is Welcome to Testify on this Podcast
Jan 22 | 00:45:42
Episode 151: This Podcast Deserves (at Least) One Vote for the Hall of Fame
Jan 16 | 00:58:54
Episode 150: This Podcast Can’t Spell Sesquicenteninial!
Jan 06 | 01:17:49
Episode 149: This Podcast Will Not Serve as a Notification to Anyone About Anything
Dec 18 | 00:59:27
Episode 148: This Podcast Is “Thug #7”
Dec 10 | 00:56:30
Episode 147: Sometimes You Get a Donald J. Trump
Dec 04 | 00:50:55
Episode 146: What’s In Your Wallet? A Subpoena!
Nov 26 | 00:57:49
Episode 145: The Meh-mometer Is Stuck at Meh
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