- Publisher |
- Lori Highby
- Media Type |
- audio
- Podknife tags |
- Business,
- Careers,
- Interview,
- Relationships
Our host, Lori Highby, will connect with top professionals and dive into their best networking stories and techniques to share with you!
- People |
- Country Of Origin |
- USA
- Produced In |
- Milwaukee, WI
- Frequency |
- Biweekly
- Explicit |
- No
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Submit ReviewMeet Jim Heinigner
Jim Heininger is The Rebrand Man. He leads the efforts of The Rebranding Experts, which he founded in 2017, after 30 years of business and brand strategy experience for P&G, McDonald’s, Anheuser-Busch and others.
Rebranding Experts was purposefully designed to be the only agency with the comprehensive services necessary to rebrand organizations. It starts from a fundamentally different viewpoint than traditional branding firms that see rebranding as a marketing strategy. His team believes rebranding should be a strategic growth accelerator, creating a forward-facing organization ready to grasp new opportunities. It’s a jetpack to your success.
Jim has designed the methodology used by the firm and merged the many disciplines necessary for successful rebranding, including research, brand strategy and planning, creative naming, design/identity, corporate and leadership communications, change
management, employee engagement and internal marketing, customer experience design and marketing/public relations.
Jim coaches CEOs through the rebranding process, aligning their executive team, and helping to execute complete name changes and new customer promises. He regularly speaks at national conferences and is a frequent contributor to Forbes.com on the topic of rebranding.
Highlights
00:00 Welcome to the Social Capital Podcast
01:21 Introducing Today's Guest: Jim Heininger, The Rebrand Man
02:23 The Art and Strategy of Rebranding
05:05 Current Trends in Rebranding
08:03 Learning from Twitter's Rebranding to X
10:44 Personal and Professional Growth Advice
14:07 Engaging in Professional Networks for Success
14:53 How to Connect with Jim and Closing Thoughts
Connect with Jim!
Meet Bobbi Baehne
Bobbi Baehne is the founder and CEO of Think Big Go Local, a digital marketing agency that helps small businesses succeed in their local communities by leveraging the power of online marketing. With over 15 years of experience in entrepreneurship, marketing, and small business development, Bobbi has a passion for helping small businesses grow and thrive, and has worked with hundreds of clients to develop successful marketing strategies. In her current role, Bobbi leads a team of digital marketing experts who provide personalized support to small businesses. She has done a TedX talk, has been featured in Inc. Magazine, Huffington Post, and more, and is a regular speaker at conferences and events, sharing her expertise and insights with audiences around the country.
What are the top three trends that small business owners should consider integrating into their marketing mix right now?
So there are so many things and so many trends we could talk about, but there are a few that I think are top of the list.
So first is something we're hearing so much about, and that's artificial intelligence, right? How to use AI effectively. That that is definitely one of the things small businesses need to keep top of mind, because one of the challenges I hear so frequently from my customers is the bandwidth to do all the things that need to be done in their business.
And as a small business owner, sometimes you don't have a team built yet. And so figuring out how to make the most effective use of your time so that you can run your business and market it effectively is kind of top of the list for me.
The second thing, which has been a thing for a while, but it's just not going away is video. For a while, we were all talking a lot about short-form video, reels, TikTok, and those are so relevant. But I also think business owners need to step back and notice a couple of things.
There's still so many small businesses not leveraging the power of YouTube. And we're finding that a lot of people we talk to are using YouTube in such different ways that you have such a larger opportunity to leverage that. I can go to YouTube and get the small sound bites for the things I want to know and that I'm looking to learn so quickly, and it's opened up an entire new market for YouTube content.
For a while there, we were talking about really short videos. So a TikTok video, eight to 15 seconds, right? These platforms are starting to incentivize creators to do longer videos, a minute or more. So in 2024, we're going to start to see the length of those shorter vertical videos start to shift a little more. Small business owners should be paying attention to those kinds of changes so they can kind of get in the favor of those algorithms, and just be putting out more content that the platforms wanna show to more people.
And then finally, a place that many small businesses aren't leveraging, and that's paid promotion. It is so difficult for a small business that doesn't have a ton of name recognition or brand recognition yet to get their content seen. Facebook doesn't show anything on a business page to anybody if they can help it. They're in the game of wanting a business to pay for that type of attention.
And yet so many business owners either aren't doing it or they're not doing it right because they've only extended their knowledge base to how to hit that blue button and boost a post versus getting into ad manager and learning to develop a variety of different types of campaigns, leverage different types of audiences and all the tools that Meta is offering.
What social media platform do you plan on using more right now?
So, I have never been a big fan of LinkedIn. When it came out, I'd been doing this digital marketing thing for quite a while and it just was no fun. That was just the way it was. And I was having so much fun on the other platforms. And it's ridiculous, and shame on me, because I am a B2B organization. So that should be my place, but I just never enjoyed it. And over the last couple of years, it has expanded to be such a phenomenal platform with so many fantastic tools. Things like events and live streaming.
So, I tried to jump in a little bit last year and get more active, but this is the year I'm going all in on our LinkedIn marketing and pushing myself out of my comfort zone. My audience lives there and that's where we need to be. So we're going to be leveraging some of those great new tools that they've launched over the past couple of years and spending a lot more time there.
Connect with Bobbi!
Meet Eugene Marshall
Eugene Marshall is the Founder and CEO of Magnolia Tax Services. He is an Enrolled Agent (EA). Eugene is federally authorized to represent taxpayers before the IRS and, like CPAs and attorneys, has unlimited representation rights. He specializes in advanced tax strategies to reduce his client’s tax liability through effective tax planning. Eugene has several years of tax experience, including preparing taxes for individuals and small businesses.
Eugene is also an avid real estate investor. He owns a real estate investing company that acquires multi-family properties within the inner city of Chicago and has recently expanded to the Milwaukee market. Eugene believes owning real estate and having a small business is the cornerstone of building wealth.
What sets Magnolia Tax Services apart from other tax firms?
Magnolia Tax Services is a tax advisory practice that ultimately specializes in tax planning, tax preparation, tax debt resolution for individuals or small businesses that need assistance with solving a tax problem, and accounting and bookkeeping. What separates us from the average tax practices is that we're actively meeting with our clients periodically throughout the year and most of our client book is all small businesses.
I want to say maybe 90 to 95 percent is all small businesses. We do have some individuals that don't own a business, but have the desire to pick up some rental properties. We do bring them on as clients.
And we also assist and consult them on how to analyze deals, source those deals as well and get the capital to fund those deals, and it creates an opportunity for us to also educate our clients on how to be strategic in markets like today, where the interest rates are higher than they have been.
Fortunately, we're starting to see things climb down a bit. Still, we do introduce other topics such as seller financing, subject to a contract with the seller, wrap-around mortgages, and all these other creative ways to acquire properties that could ultimately benefit our client's tax position. So what separates us apart in short, is that we are actively looking at our client's financial position, and coming up with strategies to ultimately assist them with minimizing their tax bill.
This gives us the opportunities for that business owner to reinvest those savings either back into the business, back into themselves or personal professional development and or into their future.
Can you explain what the difference is between an enrolled agent and a certified public accountant?
Absolutely. So when we look at the tax space, the tax industry as a whole, there's four types of people. You have your tax preparers that do not have to be licensed at all. This could be someone who just understands how to file taxes using a particular software. Don't need a license, do not need a degree, just need to be able to file taxes.
And then we have tax attorneys. And then we have certified public accounts. And then after certified public accounts, we have folks like myself, which are enrolled agents. And so the primary difference between an enrolled agent and a certified public accountant is our specialty is tax. And we get our designation directly from the department of treasury, which houses the Internal Revenue Service. Certified public accountants that get their designation, their license from state boards.
And we actually partner with a ton of certified public accountants because they don't have an interest in tax. And some of them don't know tax. And many of them, their focus is on the accounting portion. And a lot of folks stay co associate accounting with taxes when accounting is nothing more, nothing less, but understanding and being able to read and produce financial statements.
P and L's, balance sheets, cashflow projections, not more so taxes. Now there are a ton of CPAs, of course, that do get a master in tax or do get a focus in tax, but for us, that's our specialty. We're solely designated here to niche down in the tax space.
Connect with Eugene!
1 complimentary 30-minute tax strategy call
marshall@magnoliataxservices.com
Office: (414)285-2446
Meet Lisa Apolinski
Lisa Apolinski, CMC is the CEO of 3 Dog Write. She is a content coach, teaching business owners how to use their content to attract more right-fit clients so that they experience the positive ROI on marketing and business development investments.
She has written several books, including Persuade With A Digital Content Story, named one of the top content marketing books in the world and most recently as a co-author on The Most Amazing Marketing Book Ever, an Amazon #1 new release.
She has been featured in Forbes and The New York Times for her expertise on digital storytelling and has been dubbed “America’s Digital Content Futurist”.
What do you think are the biggest mistakes you see businesses make with their content when they're trying to focus on that trust factor?
I actually had a conversation with a client today about this some feedback she was getting from her mentor who is heavily into sales. And I'm not saying that sales is bad. They're simply different ways of being.
He was pushing her to put all sorts of call to actions and you don't have a call to action in your posts on social media. And I said, well, hold on a second. What are you creating your content for if you don't have clarity around what it is that you are hoping your content will do besides drive revenue?
Because we all know the content really should be helping you to make more money, but how do you get there is the question. If you're constantly pushing calls to action or take this next step or sign up now or click on this link. It feels very sell-y and it feels very icky.
People know how social media posts work. People know how websites work. People know how the internet works. It can be a lot more subtle, where people are engaging with you through your content and learning about you, and then from there, allowing them to decide how they want to take the next step.
Do they visit your website? Do they do a Google search on you? Do they attend a webinar you're in or a podcast? Do they sign up for your newsletter? Let them decide. Don't shove call to actions in their face where it's unnecessary. You can certainly guide them.
Mark Schaefer talked about this. The customer is the marketer now. The customer is deciding the path. And if you think you're in charge of their digital path, that thought process and that ability has absolutely gone by the wayside because there are so many ways for people to engage with you and your content.
So if I would drill it down into one big issue that I see people making now as a mistake is trying to control the digital journey versus allowing your audience, who's very savvy to discover you in a way that's right for them. And that allowance of letting them have control that absolutely builds that trust factor that we talked about.
What is one thing that businesses can work on in their content today to help improve these relationships with prospects?
Add in stories. People are hardwired for stories.
I don't know if you noticed, but I've told you three stories so far. They don't have to be long, but it helps to share information. Show how it's relevant. Because people are hardwired for stories, they absorb that information a lot faster and they hold onto it a lot longer. So if you have information that you need to provide on how the journey would be to work with you, put it in a story format. Talk about a former customer or client who is similar in their journey and how they made it to the finish line.
And in my “Persuade With A Digital Content Story,” I actually give you a six-step formula to create persuasive stories within your content. You're not selling, you're not pushing features and benefits, and you're making it relevant to your audience. Again, it has value to your audience because it's the information that they want, not the information that you think you need to push.
So when you add in stories, it also makes the conversation more enjoyable to consume. And with all the content that's available today, having storytelling is, to me, the fastest way to get your content read and to get it out of that content noise and actually show up for your audience.
Connect with Lisa!
Meet Frank King
I am a Suicide Prevention Speaker and Comedian, was a writer for The Tonight Show for 20 years, a full-time speaker and comedian for 37. I’ve worked with Jeff Foxworthy, Jerry Seinfeld, Jon Stewart, Steve Harvey, Rosie, Ellen, The Beach Boys, Neil Sedaka, Randy Travis, and Lou Rawls. I’ve fought a lifetime battle with Depression and Chronic Suicidality, turning that long dark journey of the soul into 11 TEDx Talks, one SPEAK Event, and sharing my lifesaving insights on Mental Health with colleges, corporations and associations. I’ve survived 2 aortic valve replacements, a double bypass, a heart attack, 3 stents, losing to a puppet on the Original Star Search and lived to joke about all of it.
A comedian who speaks on depression and suicide. How does that work?
Well, depression and suicide run in my family. It's called generational depression and suicide. My grandmother died by suicide. My mom found her. Nine years later, my great aunt died by suicide. My mom and I found her. I was four years old. I screamed for days. In 2010, after filing a Chapter Seven bankruptcy in April, I came very close to suicide. Close enough, I can tell you what the barrel of my gun tastes like. Spoiler alert. I did not pull the trigger. A friend of mine came up at a keynote recently. He goes, “Hey man, how come you didn't pull the trigger?”
I go, “Hey, man, could you try to sound slightly less disappointed?” So that's where the humor is in the topic. It's not jokes. It's just funny, personal anecdotes. That's why. And I myself live with two mental illnesses, major depressive disorder and chronic suicidal ideation, major depressive disorder, relatively common. Chronic suicidal ideation, far more rare. It means for people in my tribe, the option of suicide's always on the menu as a solution for problems large and small. And when I say small, my car broke down a couple years ago. I had three thoughts unbidden. One, get it fixed, two buy new, and three, I could just kill myself.
That's chronic suicidal ideation.
You have 11 Tedx Talks. How did you land all of those?
Well, the only person who had five was the guy in England. He passed away. That's the most I've been able to find anybody else has gotten. In 2014, I applied. It was a Tedx in British Columbia. And I got it on my first try, which is unusual. And then two TEDx events reached out to me after that said, do you have any more mental health ideas to talk about? And I did. So I did two more at their request.
The next seven I applied for and got. And I've got a really big social media footprint on LinkedIn. And an event in India, in the state of Assam, reached out and said, we like your take on mental health. Would you be willing to do a TEDx force virtually? I said, absolutely.
So I got invited to as well. So, it's just a matter of applying, it's a bit of a numbers game. I got my first one on the first try, but the other ones took 20, 30, 40 applications before I got the audition and got asked to do it.
Connect with Frank!
Meet Alane Boyd
Alane Boyd is the Co-Founder of BGBO Co., an operations and growth strategy agency utilizing AI and automation to improve efficiency for their clients. In 2022, her company launched Arvo, an AI-powered visual documentation software for creating standard operating procedures, training documents, and company knowledge. Alane has been written and featured in Entrepreneur, HuffPost, South by Southwest (SXSW), PBS, FemFounder, and many more.
How do you start positioning yourself as an expert or a credible resource in your industry?
I really struggled with this for a long time because I was looking at the work we were doing. We are doing such amazing things and our customers love us. I finally realized we weren't telling anybody about it. Even when we would do these big case studies, we weren't sending them out in a bite sized piece.
No one's gonna know that you're an expert unless you're telling them, and you're not gonna be credible just because you say you know how to do something. You have to tell stories and do them short, where people's attention span can still follow along with it.And also very clear.
You can do that so easily now with social media. And I have found that has really turned a 180 for me. I was just going, Hey, I'm an expert. I'm over here. People are coming to me because they see me as an expert.
I would love to hear more about your AI software.
We launched that for companies to create internal process stocks, SOPs, training manuals for their team, and it's all digital.
We were looking at it from a perspective of stuff out there, a lot of platforms, they look like glorified text documents. We just thought nobody wants to learn like that. Everything is meant to suck you in longer and also for short attention span.
So that's why we built Arvo, to be really digitally appealing. And then we added AI earlier this year and we've got a couple of new AI features coming out too. We thought, what a great use of AI to help write processes. If you could have AI write 90% of a process for you, and then you tweak it for your business, that could be saving you hours of work. We've got some things coming down the line that I'm really excited about with AI too.
Connect with Alane!
Reach out on LinkedIn for a free 30-minute call
Meet Ross Keating
Ross Keating believes all businesses, regardless of their size, can be more successful, including yours. When you are successful it not only helps you and your customers, but it also helps your employees, your suppliers, the community around you, AND your family.
Over the last 15 years or so his clients have been in industries such as industrial equipment sales, pet grooming, civil construction, fitness, lighting and motor systems, house construction, mining, animal welfare, tourism, and pest control.
Many of Ross’ clients have 2x and 3x their revenue and profits yet become more relaxed and able to have more focus to “work on the business”. The result is their business continues to grow. These clients say they have also been able to achieve personal and lifestyle goals as a result of working with Ross.
He has managed the development, implementation and sales of customer relationship management strategies and software internationally. He has held management responsibility for 40,000+ customers, and $36 million in sales. Ross is a certified by Codebreaker Technologies as a B.A.N.K.TM IOS Coach.
What are the two of the biggest problems that you see business owners and executives have?
The key is that they're frustrated with the lack of results they're getting in the business. The teams are working all hours under the sun. They are trying to throw all their resources at it, but the business still doesn't meet their expectations.
And they started saying, “We've got to get more sales and generate more leads.” That's what becomes a real focus on those numbers. Sales is not a numbers game, sales and business. It's a people game now. No longer can you just go for selling. People don't like to be sold to.
So I say business and sales is not a numbers game. It's a people game.
Talk about the Codebreaker Technology Program?
Codebreaker Technologies was founded by Cheri Tree and is the only methodology that has been scientifically validated by independent studies to predict buyer behavior in less than 90 seconds. It doesn’t take a huge amount of time and a lot of brain power to go through the test.
It's been scientifically valid that you've got that prediction, but also to increase sales and influence by up to 300%. And the red, that 300 percent is because you're talking to different personalities.
So by doing that, when we know our methodology all of a sudden you can talk to people in the language and the phrases and the behaviors that you like. And it's not just in business; it's in your personal life because you're trying to influence people.
Connect with Ross!
Nextree Business Growth Consultancy
Discover Your True Personality in 90 Seconds or Less
Free E-book- Top 10 Hacks to Create Delighted Repeat Customers, 10 Reasons for Having A CRM
Meet Matt Nettleton
Since 2003, Matt Nettleton has coached more than 175 companies in a wide variety of industries. He has helped multiple companies grow from $1 million to more than $10 million in annual revenue and has helped clients close more than $3.2 billion in new sales.
Why do you believe sales is an honorable profession?
People have this idea about sales and sales people and what sales people do and how, but they forget that there is not a company that has ever existed without revenue. And that revenue never shows up magically. And those people that create the relationships and manage the relationships that generate revenue, they're salespeople who are probably the most honest traders out there. Because the salesperson tells people up front, “Hey, listen. I'm here to see if I can get you to buy something from me. You give me money and I give you a product or service.” And the more honest they are, and the more they do the right thing, the more likely they are to succeed.
So why do you believe business is honorable?
This is kind of an extension of why sales is honorable, but a lot of my clients are family owned businesses, two to 50 million in revenue. And when I talk to them, whether they're first generation, second generation, third generation, one of the things that they'll talk about is the people's lives that they've impacted.
One of my clients was talking about how they hired their third employee right when he graduated from college and here they are 25 years later. They just celebrated that employee's son graduating from college. That business is not just that service that they provide. They actually provide meaning and livelihood for their employees. They provide sustenance for their families. They allow kids to grow up in great homes. They create a fabric and a tapestry of a community. I think we lose sight of the fact that salespeople are doing good work and that companies and business owners are almost what I like to think about is an almost heroic mission to impact their employees, their customers and their communities.
Connect with Matt!
Meet Scott Flood
Scott Flood established Scott Flood Writing in 1995 after 13 years with advertising agencies in Chicago and Indianapolis. The Chicago native is a frequent author on copywriting and marketing topics for business websites and publications, has authored two books of local interest, and is also the author of 100 Years: The Story of the Western States Machine Company.
An active community volunteer, Scott has served on the School Board for the Plainfield Community School Corporation since 2000, was honored as Indiana’s outstanding local school board member in 2021, and named Hendricks County Leader of the Year in 2007 by Leadership Hendricks County. He earned a Bachelor of Science in Communications & Theatre Arts from St. Joseph’s College.
Isn't business writing supposed to be grammatical?
That's one of the great misconceptions. Let me step back and say that I absolutely love and adore English teachers. They're amazing people and anybody who can get bored sophomores to get interested in literature and poetry deserves my praise. But one of the unfortunate things that comes out of English class is that people learn a particular way to write. They learn the highly grammatical academic style of writing, which is used nowhere but the academic world. When you get out into the business world, really what's far more effective is to communicate in a more informal way, particularly a very conversational way. So I always advocate for conversational copy.
Is there a simple way to tell that something I've written is conversational?
I think the easiest way to do it is to read it out loud. Once we get out of grade school, we don't often read what we write out loud. But it's good practice because if you pick up something that you've written and you read it out loud, or even let's just say it's a paragraph from you're writing a blog post and you're not sure if it's doing a good job, read that paragraph out loud.
If you find it's easy to read it out loud, if you find that everything comes easily, you've probably done it great. But if you find yourself stumbling or pausing or running out of breath, you probably need to rewrite. It's probably too complex for the situation. That's the easiest trick I can give people.
Connect with Scott!
Meet Carol Clegg
Carol Clegg is a small business coach specializing in mindset and accountability, partnering with midlife women. Carol's passion lies in cultivating business balance and establishing realistic goals with an effective accountability structure. A maverick entrepreneur at heart, she founded Classic Exec Marketing a decade ago, embarking on a journey to empower small business owners to share their gifts and expertise.
At present Carol integrates the transformative tools of Positive Intelligence, elevating overall well-being and contentment across all spheres of life. Her ultimate mission is to empower clients to create lifestyle businesses that include flexibility and balance, enabling them to operate from any corner of the globe. With her origins in South Africa and her current base in the USA, Carol extends her guidance globally, transforming aspirations into achievements, one step at a time.
Sometimes it seems like [a four day workweek with themes for each day of the week] works for me at least for about 60 days. And then I kind of start to go off track. Any advice on that?
Absolutely. It's just time to reframe it. I felt that as well. I was like, “Oh, hang on a minute. This is getting a little boring.” So, just change it up. Okay, do something different on Mondays or simplify it, because sometimes you want to get into all the nitty gritty and like break it down into so many steps. And then that's overwhelming. So just change it up.
How do you use positive intelligence for wellbeing?
Well, positive intelligence is something that has been on the outskirts for about two or three years, watching other people using it. Curiosity. And you know how timing sometimes is just when you're ready, you're ready?
So, I started the training with them at the beginning of the year. And it has been absolutely life changing. It's a training system and it's developed by Shirzad Chamine. He's written a book on Positive Intelligence. And there've been thousands of coaches who've now gone through the system, but it's life changing.
And the simplicity of it is it's just a three muscle operating system. What you're doing is you are looking at your negative thought patterns and needing to learn how to intercept that to say, stop, shift. And how can I look at this as a gift and bring in a different component? So it's much more complex than that, but the beauty of it is that not only do you get more calm in your own life, so that's been for the sense of well being, but then it spills out. So as I grow myself and become more calm and cope better with situations, I feel that I'm passing that on. And the instrumental thing, which is something called a PQ rep. And so this is something as short as 10 seconds.
It could be as long as five minutes. There is an association with meditation, but you're being single mindedly focused on stopping the negative thought pattern and just bringing in a sense of touch. So you could just rub your fingers gently together and just immerse yourself in that. So if you and I were sitting here now before going into a meeting, we could just be feeling our fingers getting ourselves grounded, feeling our feet, bringing ourselves back to center, and then stepping into our conversation. And then it's with a loving, joyful, happiness, as opposed to judge and feeling negative. So, there's just so much about it. I am super excited to be now sort of focusing my coaching completely on this and bringing it into the accountability side. But it's a system that you can stay with for life. So it's something that you can use.
Connect with Carol!
Meet Danielle Hughes
Danielle Hughes is the creator of the Personality Brand. She teaches clients how to bring more of themselves into their message so they feel comfortable expressing it and can convey what makes them different from their competition, attracting the right audience and repelling the wrong one. Often referred to as a magician with words, while she can’t pull a rabbit out of her hat, she can hone your brand message and deadlift you or your employees, but not at the same time. That’s just irresponsible. (note: Danielle is
available for office party tricks and accepts payment in bottles of Bordeaux.)
What is a personality brand and why does someone need one?
Yes, so personal brand is everywhere. And the word personal means private. So why are we sharing our private thoughts, habits, behaviors with people that we don't know? But our personality is who we are. It's always on display and we dial it up and we dial it down, depending on who we're interacting with. So people that we have just met might get a small glimmer of our personality. Our friends and family get too much of our personality. And so to me, when you cultivate a personality brand, in business, it puts you in control of what you want to share with the people that you're meeting or the people that you're interacting with, or even your clients or customers, and allows you to say this is what I want you to know about me in order to form the necessary connections that we need to do business.
But it also creates a line in the sand of things that you're not going to share because they're no one's business and they will remain private.
What if someone's an introvert?
So, the beauty of personality brand is that you are in control. So, just because you're introverted doesn't mean you're not interesting. Doesn't mean you don't have hobbies. And I always say, think about if you were stuck in an elevator with someone (which I know is a nightmare for an introvert). What is the one thing that you could talk about with this person for an hour and it would not freak you out? And what is that thing that you would love to talk to them about if you found out that they shared that hobby or that passion with you? And we're just starting there. We're just putting that little thing, even if it's at the end of your title your LinkedIn title. And it just says like triathlete or knitter or, you know, lover of pugs.
It's gotta be a little something and that's enough. And you can just start there and then you can baby step it to more if you feel comfortable with more. But I always tell people, just because you're introverted or just because you're shy, you have things that you love to do that I'm sure help you connect to other people.
Connect with Danielle!
Personality Brand Bio Checklist
Keystone Click commercial: Goal Driven Marketing Strategy
Meet Erik Deckers
Erik Deckers is a professional writer and humorist from Central Florida. He is the co-author of four books on social media marketing, and has been a newspaper humor columnist since 1994. He has owned his own content marketing agency for 14 years, and ghostwrites books for business owners who want to leave a legacy for their families. Erik is the president of the Jack Kerouac Project in Orlando and is the lead organizer of 1 Million Cups Orlando, a networking group for entrepreneurs.
Where do you think most people should spend their time and energy? Analytics, creation of content?
I actually think that people should spend more time talking about and focusing on creation. One of the nice things about analytics is that we can do this with marketing now, where 30, 40 years ago we could not.
You didn't know how many people drove past your billboard or how many people actually saw your commercial on TV or actually heard it on the radio. And if somebody came into your business, which commercial brought them in? Which time did they see it? We didn't know any of that. And now that we can, I think marketers have gone a little bit overboard and they want to measure everything.
They use analytics to drive their content creation, which I think is the backward way of doing it. Your content creation should be first. That should be your highest priority because your analytics should tell you how well it's doing, not tell you what you should write about.
How can one turn their competitors into collaborators and referral sources?
Okay. I talk about this sometimes. I talk about the importance of having your network of people who are out giving you leads. They're making connections for you. And the best way that you can turn your competitors into your sales force is if you each were to specialize. And so one example I use is if, you know, let's say you're a bookkeeper, you might be a bookkeeper and you charge 50 bucks an hour to just do bookkeeping for anybody who calls you up.
But that means that every other bookkeeper in town is your competitor. But what if you were to specialize and you're only going to do bookkeeping for restaurants? Well, if you specialize, you can charge more because if you specialize, you know more, and that means it's worth more. And so you can charge maybe 75 or a hundred dollars an hour. And your competitor decides they're going to specialize and only work on professional services: doctors, lawyers, chiropractors.
So whenever they get a call from a doctor who says you know, “Hey, I need a bookkeeper,” then they're the one to answer that call. But let's say you get a call from an attorney and say, “I need a bookkeeper.” And you can say, “I don't do that. But my friend, Susan does. Susan is a professional services bookkeeper and she can absolutely handle what you do.
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Meet Wayne Mullins
Wayne is a husband, father of 4, entrepreneur, and the Founder of Ugly Mug Marketing, creator of the Freelance Accelerator, and author of Full Circle Marketing. He's an out-of-the-box, against the grain, thinker and it has more than paid off for his company and clients. He leads from the heart and is passionate and unapologetic about doing so. As Founder & CEO of Ugly Mug Marketing of one of the most unique and successful marketing agencies in the world, Wayne has personally trained more than 20,000 marketers, launched NY Times Bestsellers, and helped a client grow from $20M to more than $600M in less than 5 years.
How do you know if your business's culture is sabotaging your marketing efforts?
Yeah. That's a, that's a great question. And it's a challenging question because to begin, Lori, I think we have to come to the realization that often for us as entrepreneurs or for us as marketers, this thing called our business or the business that we're marketing for, it's our baby. We love this thing.
And sometimes we don't want to admit that our baby is actually ugly. And the truth is that sometimes our baby is a bit ugly and we need to look at it through that objective lens so that we can determine what is actually happening and what is not. So the first place that I love to tell people to start is to get some candid feedback from your actual customers, those interacting with your organization, purchasing your product, purchasing your services. And that can be a little bit daunting and it can be a little bit confusing for people because by default, what we typically do is we go ask the people who we think are going to say great things, right?
We ask our friends, our longtime customers, and those people rarely are willing to say things that are going to hurt our feelings or step on our toes. So, it's important to find those who are willing to tell us the honest truth about what it's like doing business with us.
Why is it so important to engage with prospects and customers on a personal level?
So we live in a world now that is, you know, there's some great quote or analogy here that I'm going to completely botch and mess up, but basically we live in this hyper connected world, right?
Where everyone is connected to everyone online and yet we live in a world where people don't have that many real connections anymore. And so one of the simplest yet most impactful things that you can do is learn to connect with your prospects and your customers on a personal level. So very simple things that you can do that will immediately calls you to stand out, send handwritten thank you notes, send birthday cards in the mail. Any points of personal interaction like that are going to cause you to immediately stand head and shoulders over your competition. Not because they can't do those things, but because they're so busy looking for the next big hack or the next, you know, cheat code or whatever it may be that they're unwilling and undisciplined to do the fundamental things that we know actually do work.
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Meet Henry DeVries
Henry DeVries, MBA, is the CEO of Indie Books International, a company he cofounded in 2014 to work with agency owners and strategic consultants who want to attract right-fit clients by marketing with a book and speech (www.indiebooksintl.com). He is the author of 17 books including Marketing With A Book For Agency Owners. Since 2010, he has ghostwritten, coauthored, and published more than 300 business books, including his McGraw Hill bestseller How to Close a Deal like Warren Buffett. Henry’s articles have appeared in forbes.com, the Associated Press, and various magazines. He can be reached at henry@indiebooksintl.com. Learn more about Henry by visiting the website for Indie Books International: http://www.indiebooksintl.com.
Henry, how does a book help with your authority marketing efforts?
Well, as our friends at Predictive ROI and Agency Management Institute say, a book can be the cornerstone for your authority marketing. And then the real leverage is talking about doing what I'm doing here on a podcast with you. Or I'm going to be giving a speech tomorrow at the University of California at Irvine at their innovation center. A lot of these [opportunities] come from the writing that I do and being an author; that makes sense to be on a stage. So, you use the book as the authority marketing tool. Your sales strategy is talking about the book. And that's what gets you the right fit prospects into your sales pipeline.
Why do you say publishing the book is the starting line and not the finish line?
There are so many people out there who're all about the book, about coaching you to write the book, and/or writing the book for you or their publishing service. And you get your book out. But let me give your audience a hard truth… Nobody gets discovered because they write a book. It's like nobody gets discovered because they put a website up on the internet. Books don't promote authors, authors promote books. And in the promotion of the book with the spotlight being on the book, it reflects on you and attracts people who want to have conversations with you about what you do and how you solve problems for people like them. So, we say publishing the book is the starting line. And it's a marathon, not a sprint. This is a long race you're going to be going on, and I have some minimum monthly requirements for my authors. Here they are. One: Do Two Showcase Speeches a Month. Either podcast or something you host like a Q&A session, or on somebody else's stage where you're a virtual or live presenter. Two of those a month and then send 20 books out a month. Two: People Who Could Book You as a Speaker Could Hire You for Your Service. If you do that on a consistent basis, you're gonna sell enough books to pay for the whole effort. And then we measured a return on investment of 4x to 220x. In other words, if people put in, let's say, $25,000 into this effort, they should get $100 to $250,000 to a half million back in extra revenue. And we have a study that shows that. People are on record with the amount of money that the book has made them. And we're out there with measurable results and testimonials to prove it.
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Email Henry (henry@indiebooksintl.com) to get a free digital PDF copy of his book “Marketing with a Book” or “Persuade with a Story!”
Meet Kurt Kleidon
Kurt Kleidon is the president of Kleidon & Associates, a marketing communication agency in Akron, Ohio. Kurt has more than 15 years of experience in marketing, branding and media relations. He also has experience as the founding editor of an arts and entertainment magazine editor and as a college professor.
In his professional capacity, Kurt focuses on marketing strategy and helping his clients find the right balance between digital opportunities and traditional marketing effort. With a background in storytelling, he truly enjoys developing new ways to convey a message within all the possibilities that are possible in social media and digital marketing.
As the host of his own podcast, Three for Three, Kurt interviews business owners on tips and tricks that have helped them build a successful business.
Kurt is avid in his volunteer work in the Akron area and has a passion for helping organizations that aim to improve the lives of children. Currently he serves on the board of a local arts organization that helps artists establish a sustainable brand and business model.
He is a published writer and photographer with more than 100 articles and photos that have appeared in print in various magazines and journals.
When does on-brand come off as artificial when networking?
Yeah, so we work with a lot of different clients to figure out what is their brand. Where should they be positioned? And sometimes when people think about branding, they think just about maybe the visuals of a brand. But of course, everything that comes with that includes things like mission statements and vision statements and a lot of different wording that goes along with it as well. And part of that is elevator speeches. We talk about networking, and how you keep your branding, and feel both on brand but feel authentic, as opposed to just reciting an elevator speech. So the way I put it here is that I think that an elevator speech really has to match the person who's saying it. Have you ever heard a muscle car drive by? You know that sound even if some of that's really loud and something in the background. So whenever you hear that, you look and you're expecting to see maybe a Dodge Charger or a muscle car. But what if you heard that sound, and you looked and you saw a 20-year-old Subaru? Totally mismatches what you're expecting, right? And if you think about that, with networking, there's nothing wrong with being that loud car if that's kind of a metaphor for maybe that elevator speech. There's nothing wrong with being a 20-year-old Subaru either, but they don't necessarily match. So I think it's really important that when you think about how you're talking about yourself, what you do, or your company, that that really matches how you present yourself. Because that's really important for people to make that feel natural. So when you're thinking elevator speech and sometimes love one of our clients, we write that for them, and you're getting to recite that and just make sure that that matches the M image that you're presenting, but also who you're speaking to as well. You think about that same metaphor, it's a, it's a muscle car. And it sounds like the most car looks like a muscle car. But it's, let's say, you know, at a somber event, well, you can't necessarily come with that same presentation for that. So think about making sure that all those brand elements that have worked so meticulously created, match how you're presenting it and who you're presenting it to.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regard to your professional career?
What I think I would do was tell myself to prepare for any kind of meeting or any type of event. We're able to engage with people with maybe just a little bit of research or maybe timely news. So, I would usually come into conversations blind, and let it guide it as it goes in. I think there's a real benefit to being interesting and to be able to bring something to the table. If it's timely or news-oriented, and talking about more than just the weather.
But let's say you go to an automotive conference. Figuring out something that relates to supply chain or to manufacturing problems that are going on right now. That is really something that can make you stand out, make you interesting and make you look like you know what you're talking about. I would have benefited from having a little bit more time that went into that. I think that also makes it interesting and people appreciate that.
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Meet Kris Ward
Kris Ward is creating a movement where your business supports your life instead of consuming it. Kris is the founder of the Win The Hour, Win the Day philosophy.
After the loss of her husband, Kris returned full-time to her work as a marketing strategist. She was relieved that her business had not only survived her absence but was growing. Now, Kris has completely changed the landscape for entrepreneurs by sharing the successful practices that allowed her absence.
Kris has shared the stage with Jack Canfield - Chicken Soup For The Soul, Kevin Harrington original Shark from Shark Tank, James Malinchak -ABC’s Secret Millionaire, Sharon Lechter - Rich Dad Poor Dad Co Author and Joe Theismann - NFL All star and commentator to name a few. Kris has also been featured on award-winning podcasts, radio and TV shows.
Kris is an acclaimed podcaster. You can hear Kris on her own podcast - Win The Hour Win The Day, where she has engaging conversations with dynamic guests covering a variety of business topics so you can get to your next win now!
We keep thinking we have to add more team in order to keep growing, but what do you think is the biggest mistake that most people make when building their team?
I think first of all, we live in a magical time and the resources are just so affordable and so endless. You could have exceptional talent in the winner circle part of our package. We will find you a VA and help you hire, onboard and train them. I would say to most people, two things, just two really big mistakes. One is they'll say, “Okay, I need a VA,” and they maybe go to an agency. I've had clients do that. And in the agency, it's a lot more expensive than working with us. You could be an amazing VA, and then somebody pairs you with someone. Let me give you an example like this. It's kind of like… let's say, Lori, I sent you a chef to work with you and your family. And I'm like, “This is a world-renowned chef, world-renowned. You are so lucky to have this chef,” and they send them to your home. And you're like, “Kris, this is a French cuisine chef and my kids are all about chicken nuggets.” This is not going to work, right?
So what I'm saying is that you can have an exception, you can find somebody extremely affordable and exceptionally talented. But when you're just running around, you know, pivoting all the time, and you're not set up and you're not ready, you're not gonna be able to keep them. And that's one of the biggest mistakes is they're like, “Oh, well, this didn't work. It didn't last.” Yeah. Because you're not set up, right? So, that's a big part of what we do. The other thing I would say is, so many people think about, you know, what they experienced as a team; the hierarchical thing when they worked in any kind of corporation anywhere in the world. And think about it like this… You also tend to think of it as a very parentified system, that working with a team and in a bigger company. And what I would say is the idea of culture, people tend to think when you have a bigger company, 5500 people, you have to think about culture. So, one of the things we talk a lot about in team building, and really implement quite effectively having a really amazing, uplifting, productive culture when you have one, two or three people on a team. Because think about it like this, Lori, if you were seeing an ocean liner like. There's 500 passengers and something happened to that ship. Maybe there's only 100 or 200 people or 75 people that are highly useful, and they're going to be able to deal with that crisis. Whatever the crisis is, the boats going down. But if you're in a rowboat with two other people, you can make sure this is one heck of a team. Because if there's a hole in that boat, that's it, right? So, I think culture is a big thing, and creating leadership and strength and making them little CEOs of their own departments. Instead of making them taskmasters, throwing tasks at them, just having them try to keep up the panic pace. That's just several of the things that people do wrong.
If I were to start over from scratch at the very beginning, I would focus on those systems and processes for sure.
Yeah, and you bring up a really powerful point. When you have one or two people, or even if you're still a solopreneur, and you think, “Oh, I don't need systems and processes, I do this every day.” But I will bore you with all these studies and how the brain works and stuff. But what I would tell you is, you're using up a lot of hard drive in your brain remembering. Even if you do remember, science shows us that if you have to remember seven things, even if you do it every day, you will often forget one or two, and those who one or two will rotate, and then you use extra brainpower. What's the other step? So that is why at three o'clock in the afternoon, you may be tired, or you think, “Oh, I can't learn this new thing.” Now I'll do it in the morning, right? So, it's even if you just have one person, having effective systems and processes not only allows you to leave work fresh and start refreshed, but it also builds on your strengths, and then allows you brain power, so that you can at four o'clock in the afternoon do something creative instead of being zapped by that.
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Meet Andy Crestodina
Andy Crestodina is the co-founder and Chief Marketing Officer of Orbit Media, an award-winning 50-person digital agency in Chicago. Over the past 20 years, Andy has provided digital marketing advice to1000+ businesses.
Andy has written 500+ articles on content strategy, search engine optimization, influencer marketing, visitor psychology and Analytics. These articles reach more than three million readers each year. He’s also the author of Content Chemistry: The Illustrated Handbook for Content Marketing.
Andy gives up to 100 webinars and presentations per year and is a frequent repeat speaker at many of the top national marketing conferences.
What kind of content can't be created by an AI?
I love this because I strongly believe that AI will reduce the cost of creating lots of content and especially specific types of content. But there are still types of content that it's not going to be very good at. AI, in my experience, doesn't really have a strong perspective. The technology is really just predicting the next chunk of language in a series. It's not trying to succeed at a goal per se. It's trying to create a piece of language that satisfies the prompt. So, if you want it to create some true thought leadership content or make a stand, have an opinion, it doesn't really do that. I've never seen AI throw a punch. It just isn't built for that. So, if you want to differentiate your content there are several great opportunities to do that.
What is the wrong way to be social online?
I think from a business perspective, it's constant selling at 100%. You're not going to have a following. You're going to lose any sort of followers that you did have. But if you're constantly pitching your service or, or product, you're going to lose interest right away. It's not sell me media. It's social media.
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Content Chemistry: The Illustrated Handbook for Content Marketing Sixth Edition
Meet Clarene Mitchell
She is the founder and CEO of TCM Communications, a social media branding firm based in Tulsa, Oklahoma. TCM focuses on empowering success-driven entrepreneurs and corporate leaders to effectively leverage LinkedIn to generate organic results. She holds a BA in interpersonal communications from Cardinal Stritch University.
How is LinkedIn different from other social media platforms?
Totally different. I couldn't we could just talk about that question in itself and go on and on, for one LinkedIn was created for the members to generate results, as opposed to other platforms where they're really social entertainment. That was really that's the core foundation, the foundation of LinkedIn is all about members generating results. When you look at the mission of the platform, it says that explicitly, it's about the economic advancement of all the members. So that's number one. The other part of LinkedIn is different than other platforms, I say, is a more comprehensive platform. From my perspective, why do you have to go anywhere else you're using any other platform, when there's so much that LinkedIn offers, whether it's being able to create newsletters or write our articles, or go live in video form or audio form? And just the different features that it has, make it a more comprehensive platform versus I say some other platforms are more limited than with what you can do on them
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regard to your professional career?
You know, I had to go way back, because you know, my age, I think that mentally to go back to my 20-year-old, so I guess the biggest thing I would tell my 20-year-old self is, dreams don't have to die, they can be deferred, meaning so 20-year-old Claire rain wanted to be a broadcast journalist. But my life circumstances didn't allow for the freedom of that. But or the flexibility I needed to go with being in the broadcast journalism sector of communications. It's ironic now, though, where you know, with what I do in my business, and again, going back to the LinkedIn features, the LinkedIn feature, linked in live feature, for me is much of our dream, where, you know, life circumstance happened couldn't be a broadcast journalist right out of college, like I want it to become. But really, I'm fulfilling that dream now as a LinkedIn, live creator and host and all of that. It's like, okay, it could, that dream didn't have to die, I still held it dear in my heart, you know. And I, it became a reality when it needed to become or was able to become a reality. So not give up on my dreams, keep them fresh in my heart and continue to nurture them so that I could seize opportunities when they came up.
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Meet Jamie
Jamie Shibley is the CEO of The Expressory, a strategic gifting agency that believes the key to accelerating your business growth and profitability in the post-COVID era will rely on your ability to maintain personal connections to build stronger emotional loyalty in your business relationships. After 20 years in the corporate world full of it and E-commerce roles, Jamie launched an online brand of her own. Jamie understands the influence of strategic gifts and wants to positively impact the mental well-being in our world by helping businesses acknowledge care for their community members, respected as a market leader. Jamie's work has been featured on Entertainment Tonight and forbes.com.
What are some of the best practices that you see for this relationship nurturing?
In this post-COVID era, we kind of have a challenge as business owners, how do we continue to grow and succeed when, when we are working with nurturing our leads and converting more, I think that we've depended so long on this idea of, you know, you get this drilled into your head, this know, like, and trust, people need to know you as you trust you. And so great technology helps us reach more people, right, to reach the masses, and if that's how you're networking, even if that's how you're out first meeting people, that's great. But how do we get into and move people to the lake and trust if we're going to stay just digital and surface? And that's where I think this focus of, we need to bring a mix of a lot more personal touch, touch points with people. And so our best practice, what we always recommend is that you identify when you have prospects that come into your space, identify the key ones, because they can't all be like, like your top dream prospects, right? You know, grab, grab 10 of them, or 20, we say 25, right, your dream 25? Who are those people, and then make a plan so that you are showing up in some way in front of those people, those 25 leads, say, every six to eight weeks, but you need to do so through a combination of digital and physical, maybe even face to face. But how are you showing them that you understand their pain points that you understand where they're at, in, you know, whatever their business needs are, how whatever you serve, right as your company. Be generous with your smarts, and the things you share with them to educate them. And, you know, each time that you're in front of them, it moves that relationship forward a little bit further. And when we say use physical touch points in some way, whether that be handwritten cards, printed material, like your articles or research, the reason we say that is because physical tangible items in hand trigger the part of your brain that is that perceives value. So if I send you something that you are holding, you're already going to think I am my company, my service is more valuable. Because you're looking at something, right?
I'm curious, if you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regard to your professional career?
Well, it's funny because when I graduated college, I started working right away for the company that I spent 20 years at and like I said in it, but at the same time, I was so obsessed with this with programming and creating and so I was outside of work. I was creating my own website, right and it was a time when the web was for Starting to take payments. And so I set up this whole crafting website where crafters could sell. I'd rent them space, all this stuff. And I had a bunch of crafters renting from me. However, I wasn't doing a great job getting them business customers. And so what I recognize then is like, well, I didn't know marketing, I had to figure out how to market on the web. And so I went and I searched the web. And I printed out this enormous book on marketing on the web. And then I realized, I'm just starting out my career, I can't also spend time trying to figure this out, and I let it go. And so what I would tell myself now and what I think universities in the younger generation are learning more of is like, I didn't have to know it all. I just needed to know others who did. And I needed to know how to find them. Right? Like, what if then, I had known that I should have just hired someone who was good at marketing? Maybe it could have had etsy or a version of it, right? Sure. I had no clue then how to navigate that world of relationships. And so I would say, but like, I also think that in today's world, people know that a little better than we did back then maybe you're better than I did, I guess.
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Meet Martin
Martin has had a unique career that has spanned both analyst and marketing practitioner roles focused on high technology and related industries. The unifying factor has always been a keen analysis of go-to-market trends while also having achieved success as a marketing leader. Schneider started his career as a journalist covering b2b technologies and quickly transitioned into leading analysts covering application software for the 451 group in New York City, where he specialized in CRM, marketing, automation, and business intelligence analytics technologies. After analyzing the go-to-market strategies of dozens of technology vendors, Schneider made the move to the vendor side, where he led successful go-to-market teams for several startups and established tech providers including Sugar CRM, Basho, technologies, Caspio, and support logic. Schneider brings a wealth of marketing and sales alignment content strategy and other go-to-market expertise to his role at Annuity this research is excited to be merging his two passions in producing research and analysis around modern go-to-market and growth marketing strategies for a broad set of b2b professionals.
So what's driving this interesting evolution and how growth leaders that you're talking about are looking at approaching go-to-market right now?
Look, I think I think we've kind of hinted at it, right? I mean, it's the idea that looks, we we've changed the models of like delivery, and like payments, and like we've done all the infrastructure things, billing, you know, all these things that needed to be done in this new recurring model of everything. Subscription economy, whatever buzzword you want to use, right? Yep. But we have like, we never thought about the go-to-market and engagement strategies for the second half of that, right? We've never extended that part down the line. So that's really what's needed. Because what are we being forced with? We keep, you know, what did we hear a week or so ago in Chicago, right? Do more with less, you know, leverage data in ways that you never have. But well, what's the data need to be about? It's got to be about well, what's the customer experience that's driving new opportunities for growth? Right? It's about how we find lift, not just revenue. And how do we focus on the metrics and the KPIs that matter? Not the ones that are like what I would call kind of short-sighted, you know, how many times does a CMO pat the team on the back and said, Look, we did 115% of our lead handoffs, the sales for sales accepted leads were awesome. But the company misses its number. So then fingers get pointed, and people start, you know, and there's distrust and factions, and all those types of things that start to dysfunction, right? But because there wasn't a shared growth plan, there wasn't an understanding of like, well, well, what is a good lead? What are you know? And where did the post-sale? the idea that like, how do we not market these people effectively to get lifting growth inside our accounts, rather than just focusing on that new and blah, blah, blah, right? So I mean, that's really what's happening, right? Like, if everyone's using this term growth, and you see these things like growth hacking, and you use a term like hacking, and I'm like, that sounds a lot like just random, haphazard acts of marketing that are not strategic. They're not aligned to the entire journey. And that's really what's driving this, right, we need to have a full journey, an orchestrated approach that understands, you know, who are the personas for presale? Who are the personas for post-sale? What is that conversation track? What kind of content? What kind of channels? When do we provide that? What are the indicators that say this is upselling versus this is the reinforcement of just baseline stuff, of making sure they're actually using our product effectively, that kind of thing? And, and really building these models' full journey. That's really what's driving it lead for that because that's what drives perpetual, which is super important when you think of perpetual versus haphazard, random acts of like a campaign versus an ad total engagement model. Right. And that's the difference. People need that because that's what builds sustainable growth, not, not these random acts that people still kind of talk about, you know, it was interesting, even at the event seeing people talk about this was a great campaign. And so yeah, well, how does that tie into your overall conversation track? And your full journey? engagement model? No, one is kidding.
I'm curious, if you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regard to your professional career?
I'm definitely networking more. I was one of those people that when I was younger, I thought I was like, Really, like smart. And I thought the books and all that kind of stuff. We're gonna give me what I need. thought if I had the chops, everything was gonna work out. But there's a lot of who you know, right? Yeah, in terms of opportunities, but also just learning opportunities, right, like, network and be open that like, other people have good ideas, even if they're not your idea, right? That kind of idea. And just learning reading, like, I should have read more industry books early. I kind of got into that late, you know, and, you know, especially at my 20 year-olds, because I was still like an academic for academic sake. Not like I thought business was, you know, I had a kind of opposite, right? I thought academics were smarter and business people were like, they just couldn't hack it from it's like, kind of the opposite, right? Like academics can't do so they teach right. So, so yeah, I mean, I would definitely network more and take all those opportunities to network, take opportunities to learn, you know, I liked school, but again, like much more like practical things, even if it doesn't come out with a certificate or certification that you can put on your resume. take those opportunities to learn, you know, if you can, right sometimes, you know, time and the economics make that hard but take whatever chance you can learn from people who were doing it. Right. The academic approach is always kind of limited and dated, I'm talking about people who are getting MBAs right now, and learning from people who are really doing it now. And getting that mentorships and things like that, you know, I thought I was way smarter than I was right. And that approach of saying, like, be open, and learn from others. And network and network and network is really important, especially when you're young like you want to, you kind of want to have like, your social life, and you want to kind of keep these things compartmentalized. But the more you kind of merge it the kind of better, like having good friends in the industry, that are really friends is really important. And I didn't learn that until way late, right?
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Meet Dan
Dan is the founder and CEO of biz hack Academy, whose mission is to give 10,000 underserved small businesses a simpler way to grow. Dan is a Pulitzer Prize-winning former NPR and PBS journalist, turned entrepreneur and educator. He is the grandson of a Philadelphia public school science teacher. That's a notice here of a professional soccer coach in La Liga in Spain. And he carries forward a family legacy of teaching coaching and entrepreneurship. Dan trains business owners in the lead building system, a process proven a proven process for online lead generation, and the thought leadership pyramid systematic approach to content marketing. past career highlights include as the head of growth at two software startups and as Senior Director of Digital Marketing, at the nation's largest Hispanic-owned energy company. He's helped to take offer craft a gamification SAS company in the hospitality industry, from pre-revenue to a 2.5 million run rate in just two years.
How does your journalistic background impact your approach to AI?
You know, what a great question. And it's an area that I'm still figuring out because I think all of us are still figuring out AI and AI tools, but they're, they're at least two ways in which my journalistic background has come into there actually three ways in which my journalistic background and come into direct specific play when it comes to AI. So it helps to just give a little bit of background Sure. Ai, in its current form is really dependent on Okay, so AI is called artificial intelligence. And artificial intelligence is basically getting algorithms or robots to do work for you. And the most popular best-known version of AI is Chachi Beatty. It's what's known as generative AI, which means you ask them a question, and it creates an original new answer. And there are three things that journalists know how to do really well, that are very helpful with generative AI and Chachi PT. So the first is we're really good at precise communication. Right? Like we're very expert as journalists in communicating things clearly and simply and that's a really important skill when you're writing a prompt. Yes. The second is we're really good at fact-checking. And one of the big problems with AI is it, quote hallucinates. It's actually the word that they use the technical word for making shit up. And so journalists are really good at sniffing out bullshit and fact-checking. Sure. And then the third, the third thing that we're really really good at is interviewing. And if you actually look at what the quote prompt and Engineering are, which is the back-and-forth between an AI bot and a human being. It isn't a form kind of interview where you're continuously deepening and asking new questions and getting original responses and replanting returns. So I, you know, I've taught all these topics in journalism, I practice them as a journalist, and I'm finding generative AI and catch up at like, a very comfortable space for me.
Can you elaborate on what me too marketing is and what your perspective is?
Yeah. So first of all, my passion isn't marketing. My passion is business storytelling, and more specifically, helping businesses grow. And I feel this is an important distinction because it was a big realization on my in my life that marketing is interesting to me. building my business and helping others build theirs is a life passion. I am so on fire on that. And marketing is an instrument for doing that. But it's not, in and of itself, a passion of mine, what I'm passionate about. And I do this a lot seeing a business and helping them get to the next phase. And particularly I do really well with small businesses from micro-enterprises to sub $50 million base witnesses and, and really like they can mark it before and after where biz hack and I have been in their life and glory like there's literally not enough money in the world to replace that feeling of just deep and abiding satisfaction that comes with helping others. And it's something that I learned from my mother. And my grandfather's, you know, and that is like a part of who I am. And, as a result, I, you know, probably don't make as much as I could, I don't work with the deepest pocketed or largest clients and I could have the resume to do it. But I, I like prefer to work with smaller businesses, because, you know, when you're dealing with a Fortune 500 company, if you can get that Titanic to change one degree, you have impacted the company in an extraordinary way, I can turn companies around. [...]
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bizhack.com/ai-for-marketing-and-sales-3/
calendly.com/bizhack/meetdan
linktr.ee/bizhackacademy
Meet Andy
Andy is the founder of On Milwaukee, he's a Milwaukee native, he lived in Providence, Washington, DC, and Baltimore before returning home in 1996. Andy launched onmilwaukee.com LLC in April 1998 as a way to channel his passion for Milwaukee, journalism, and tech into a cutting-edge media company. He's a graduate of the George Washington University and worked at the White House Office of Communications, the Dallas Morning News, Washington Barrel, and to Milwaukee PR firms before branching out on his own at age 23. And he is more passionate than ever about Milwaukee's mission statement to grow communities and businesses through engaging digital media.
What would you recommend for how a business does PR?
That's a good question. Because I've worked on both sides of the business. I've been in PR and media relations, and I've been in journalism, and I've gone back and forth. And sometimes my role continues to be on both sides of things. So I know what it's like to pitch and I know what it's like to be pitched. And what I always tell people is to make sure you have a relevant story for the outlet that you're pitching it to. If I looked at my email inbox right now, it would probably be about 700 messages today, mostly people trying to get coverage of things, and most of the time, it's not relevant. So people are spending an awful lot of time putting energy into things that don't really match who they're talking to. And it makes it more difficult for us to sort through it. Back in the day, media relations equated to news releases. And now that's, that's just one piece of it. So I would recommend that anyone working in public relations considers all the different tools that are available to get their message out and do it in a way that resonates with the journalists on the other side.
So what are some mistakes you see businesses making in getting the press's attention?
If you make it too hard on the journalist, make your job easier, right? So so let's just start with, like the basics of news release writing, like, if it's a sales pitch, if it's full of typos if it's faxed, you know, it's like, Give me something not as much as they used to. But I mean, you know, give me something that a very busy Junior writer, if they wanted to, could pretty much copy and paste, I would never tolerate that, from our journalists. But, you know, the best news release is one that is already written in APA style, if that's what the publication uses. It's not, you know, it's, it's, it's not, it's, it's not an ad, right, you know, people can pay for that this isn't native content, like, show me why it's newsworthy, and write it is such, the biggest mistake is pitching things that are relevant, and then, you know, getting annoyed, why it's not working, and being blocked, you know, blowing your shot on that. And something, when you could have something else that would work. Because it's a relationship, basically, you know, some stranger, coming to me and asking for favors. It's like, you know, this, this is hard work. And we have a lot to choose from. To understand what we are, I get a lot of pitches addressed to the wrong publication. And it's like, come on, like, that's a pretty much surefire way to, not to know like, you know, hear the wrong name, you know, who you're talking to. And then I think that being respectful of the way that reporter wants to communicate, so for me, like I don't, I don't want to do this over Facebook Messenger, or I don't want to do this over text. And that's how people pitch me all the time. And I'll say, you know, could you please send me an email, but other people will say, like, you know, fire me off a text or something. And remember that you're asking a journalist to do something. And if you make it too hard, and you don't respect the deadlines, you don't respect what they need. You're just hurting your chances of success.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regard to your professional career?
Okay, so 23 instead of 20? Because 23 is when I started on Malachy. Well, I would have told myself, to stop being such a smartass and write better stuff. I also would have told myself to think more about monetizing and less about if you build it, they will come I would have thought about how incentivizing the people who love our content to pay for it, as opposed to people that we don't agencies, people that we don't know people in other cities who don't feel the love here. So I would have never thought about that. And I think that, oh, 23-year-old news, pretty fun. I really, I wrote some pretty cool stuff back then. And we've dipped back into the archives over the years. I feel kind of like I'm the unofficial Milwaukee historian because even though we have a few employees has been since the early days, obviously, I've been there the longest so I can't remember everything I've ever written or everything we've ever run out of those 60 65,000 pieces. But there's, there's like some amazing, hilarious. So just some like, you know, Bucket List interview, I would have, I would have never turned I think I turned down a ride in the Goodyear Blimp once Oh, man, I gave it to a freelancer. Ah, that was stupid.
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Meet Jaime
Jaime is a coach's coach. She sees individuals’ God-given talents, helps them connect to their true calling and courageously step into the vision of their future self. After 20+ years of developing employees in multiple family business leadership roles, Jaime has created an innovative, holistic approach that evokes rapid, transformative growth. When Jaime isn’t hosting her podcast "The Business is You!" or leading her coaching firm Believe Crew, she loves to kayak and hang out with her husband and 6 sons.
So what's your vision? What's your why?
So when I first started coaching, I was actually in a family business in a leadership position, but it was more like a position of leadership. And yet, I didn't know anything about it. I didn't know a lot about myself, I just, you know, again, I was in the family business. And so, you know, you just help wherever you can. And eventually, you know, you start to get into positions where you know, more than someone else about that. And so, you know, maybe it's the right position, maybe it's not, but I wanted more, I wanted to be better at management at leading more, how could I be a better person. And so I started hiring a coach as well as getting trained on how to be a coach. And yet, I mean, in the family businesses that I was in, my dad was a serial entrepreneur. And so there was constantly a new business that we were starting. And so when I looked into the coaching industry, I was like, What is this? How do you start a coaching business like this just doesn't even make sense. There are no guidelines or rails, it felt like to me, and so I wanted and I could see this vision of like, how could we make coaching? How can we make it more possible for entrepreneurs to get coaching and to get it from a variety of coaches from one source? And how do we make it easier for coaches, to have a business without needing to do all the things themselves find all the people you know, all the VAs all the social media, posting, and so believe, whose vision is just this hub of coaches working together, and then ultimately, towards that bigger vision of empowering individuals to recognize, you know, their gifts and talents and be able to work in those gifts and talents. Like we're all called to something different. So we want to help, you know, create a community that can empower individuals through the power of coaching does that explain it in a short couple of sentences?
So what are some resources for business owners?
Well, I love to think about who can help, you know, who are we called to work with? And not just like, How can I do this myself? I feel like business owners when they're first starting in business, it's like, like you said, the hat closet is really deep. And sometimes we don't even permit ourselves to spend the money because we're like, well, I need to be making money first. And it's sort of a chicken in the egg concept like how do you know? Do I need this person? Or do I need a client first? And what I found is that it comes down to being true to our values, like what you value, what is so important to you that it's worth investing in because that's what your business needs. And that's what you need. And really, resources can be as simple as software, it can be as simple as a business bestie a power partner, you know, someone that you have on the calendar once a month that you connect with because they're, you know, maybe a referral partner, maybe there's someone that works with your clients. Before After you do, like resources can come in, in the form of people software. I'm just sorry, every industry has its own, like associations. You know, sometimes there are connections there. But I love to think about what can we create. That's so amazing because we've partnered with other people on our journey.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regard to your professional career?
So at 20, I was starting or leading the beginnings of a furniture studio, which was, again, another one of my dad's ideas that I ended up being the person to lead it without any support or help. And I also was a new mom, you know, young baby newly married, so it was like all the things right around 20. And I spent so much time over the last 20 years learning, learning everything about the business, a small business Bible, you know, every book, I could check out everything I could get my hands on for all the different I just wanted to learn, I wanted to soak it up, I wanted to, you know, have the best businesses I could create. And then we ran into all these bumps along the way, you know, my parents had been entrepreneurs my entire life. And my mom died of cancer. And my dad ended up with, you know, these different things that were limiting us in business. And I couldn't figure out why we were running into these walls. And so ultimately, for the last 20 years, I've studied, why is business a struggle. Like what does it take to do business? And often what I found is it isn't the business itself, it's our mind, our mindset, and so. And back then, my parents also did not hire a lot of outside professional services for help, like going to therapy wasn't a thing, and asking an attorney or an accountant wasn't a thing. And so we did a lot of it ourselves. And what I would go back and say, to my younger self is it's okay to pay for help. Like, it's okay. Somebody else may have walked that road already. But I was brought up to believe that they probably didn't have the answers either. And so you know, just keep trudging through. That's the answer.
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Meet Kate
With over twenty years of experience in marketing, Kate is passionate about helping businesses cut through complexity and ‘busy work’ to create intentional growth strategies that actually make an impact on what matters most.
In addition to running her agency, Kate also teaches students the fundamentals of marketing at Husson University and Eastern Maine Community College, is an avid adventurer, and occasionally dusts off her journalism skills as a business and travel freelance contributor.
So what exactly is happening with Google Analytics, and what does that timeline look like?
So if you own a business, or do marketing, you've probably heard about the transition from Universal Analytics to GA4. It's not anything new. Google actually released GA4 Back in 2020, they told us this was going to be happening last year, and they kind of started really poking and reminding us every time you logged in, it would say, Hey, we're transitioning to GA4. And now it is officially happening in July. So as of July, you're no longer going to have access to your Universal Analytics property. And so it's very important that businesses set up their GA4 property. So where we are in the timeline now, right around March, Google started kind of doing it for people. So you may have logged in and seen that Google has created your property for you. Some accounts may not have had it created for them yet. But it's really important that everybody kind of logs in and sees where they're at because there are some critical action steps that you want to be able to take. So come July, you're not left without the data that you need to make key decisions for your business.
So what exactly does this mean, for businesses like what should a business do?
So what it means for businesses just to kind of take a step back really quick. So Universal Analytics and GA4 are essentially different data models. So while Google does give you the option to let it migrate your Analytics account into GA4, it is advised that if you're using it for anything that's not super simple, like just tracking pageviews or sessions, kind of some of the more simple metrics, it really you should go in and make sure that you're creating your data and your reports yourself. Because Universal Analytics is mostly focused on pageviews sessions, and user interactions with individual pages on your website, whereas GA4 is a little bit more focused on events. So everything in GA4 is an event. And it's important to know how to create those events so that you have the right kind of data and know what is happening with your website.
How important is google analytics as a tool and what are some pros and cons of leveraging it as a tool?
So analytics, to me, is really the hub of how you get information if you're in digital marketing, right? It's really how you get the information and know what's happening. It allows you to see how many people are coming to your website, where they're coming from, what pages they're landing on what pages they're going to next. If you're tracking something like a lead or a purchase, you can look through behavior flow and see exactly you know what path that person is taking. And through that information that you gather, you can then make decisions not only about what you do on your website and the user experience on your website, but where to invest marketing dollars in terms of you know, are you doing PPC campaigns, are you running social media is most of your sales or most of your activity coming from your email list? It really can give you perspective on where to focus, what areas to kind of try to improve, and give you a bigger picture of How all of your marketing is working by having that all kind of plugged in together.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regard to your professional career?
So I have always been somebody who loves learning things I'm naturally curious. But I also have a little bit of shiny object syndrome, I guess you could call it. And I am constantly learning and reading. And while that is a very good characteristic to have. Sometimes I feel like in the past, I've almost information overloaded myself. And so now what I try to do is really be more strategic and focus on what it is that I'm trying to learn rather than kind of trying to get through 52 books in a year, you know, a book a week, I try to slow down and really then implement some of the things that I learned I really love. I think it's a Tony Robbins quote where he says knowledge is not power, knowledge is potential power. Action is power, right? So if I could tell my younger self, anything else that would be to learn but focus more on learning through experience, so you truly learn it and not just can pass up a pop quiz about it the next day.
Connect with Kate
Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katebielinski/
Email Address: kate@katebielinski.com
Meet Eric
He's the CEO and founder of Myaderm, a manufacturer of skincare and pain relief products that use CBD as a key ingredient. Modern products are sold nationwide and retailers like Dick's Sporting Goods GNC and Rite Aid. He has worked in the pharmaceutical and food manufacturing industries with companies that included; Teva, Edwards, Lifesciences, and Dean Foods. From 2009 to 2010 Eric owned a professional us continental cycling team that received international recognition. He has been featured on network and cable television podcasts and has written articles for national publications. He's earned a BA from the Citadel and Charleston, South Carolina, and an MBA from the University of California.
How do we innovate?
Well, I would expand on that to say most businesses do not innovate. It's more of a rarity than it is a rake regularity. And that's not surprising, because it's difficult. So and just understanding what innovation is largely misunderstood. It's not just a novel thing. So people conflate innovation with novelty, certainly, innovation has novelty in it. But what it is, is there's either an invention of something new with utility, or there's a new combination of things that create way more value than the independent parts. And that's a difficult thing to do. But it's a great thing to strive for. And certainly, if you want to have a great company, a great organization, if you want to do great things, you're going to have to be innovative. There's just no choice around that. The other option is to find a monopoly, that's a great way to do it too. Or, yeah, just have more money than anybody else. Those are your only other options.
What should entrepreneurs not do?
My favorite topic, because I've, I've made all the mistakes. So I feel people's pain out there. Well, I mean, the first one is right in line with innovation. So do not do more of the same. I'm sure you as a marketer, the last thing you want to do is go out and spend all your time and energy promoting and building brands that are just copies of something else. That fair? Oh, yeah, 100% of yours. That sucks. That's no fun, and interesting. So and low probability of success. So if you're doing the same thing, you're just a different color or a different something, but is the same thing. Don't do that, do not do that. So what you want to strive for is innovating to create something that has new utility, or is significantly different than what's in the market that customers will want. So that's the first thing you don't do is more of the same. And the second thing is just as important, maybe the most important in all of the business. Don't be the very first and don't be the very last Don't be either the early adobe the very first I'll be very low. So timing, and the academic literature. unlimited amount of experience across the business world for the past 200 years will tell you, nothing's more important than timing, because you have the best ideas and even be able to execute but the timings are not right. It ain't gonna win.
Can you share your most successful or favorite networking experience that you’ve had?
Well, I do have networking stories. And I want to start by saying, like, I don't like networking, introvert. I like making things I enjoy the process of building things. But I'll tell you this much, you're not gonna get anywhere in life. If you don't know, folks, if you don't spend time networking. So this is my recommendation for folks who are like me who don't naturally want to do that. Take what you're doing. So especially if you're doing something innovative, especially if you've got a lot of energy about it, and realize that that's the mechanism for energizing your ability to go out and meet people because naturally, you don't want to talk about that. And in business, if you have something interesting to share what you're doing what your work is, and you're energized by it. And you're back to the passion part. If you're passionate about the things you're doing within the industry, or whatever you're working in whatever market then that creates the ability to overcome the challenges a lot of people have with networking, because you have to gin up energy. And if you're an introvert, you don't get energy from being around people that suck the energy out of you. So that's where extroverts have tremendous advantages because they just get more energized, being around people. So my stories are, you know, amalgamated into, I always tend to go into networking situations where I'm excited about what I'm doing. And when the opportunity is appropriate, talking about and sharing with people and trying to engage them not just blathering, but like really asking them questions, giving them perspective. And you never know what you learn. Like, sometimes people have good insights, you meet some new friends, and ultimately, that is probably the most, the tightest corollary between success and life is with in general, just things you can do is your relationships and your network.
So how do you stay in front of and nurture these relationships you've created?
Generally, for me, it's been a requirement as one when you raise capital for companies that are necessities. And outside of that, I look for opportunities within my industry to take leadership positions, I'll give keynote speeches. So anytime you can put yourself in a position where you have to talk about what you're doing in a formalized way post that you're going to meet a lot of people, because there isn't come up to talk to you about it, right? So that's a very efficient way, if you can get that kind of opportunity, I recommend taking it because you're gonna be talking about what you want to talk about anyways. And then that attracts people who are interested in what you're doing.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, Bruce, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently concerning your professional career?
I would finish the second two and the second two are way easier to digest. And I think people respond well to them. And so the fourth on the five don'ts for entrepreneurs is Don't burn yourself out. I don't care what you hear from whomever the star you know entrepreneur, executive, whatever about working endless hours, that is crap. They do not. They work a lot of hours. But what they do is they replace intensity, especially high output over short duration intensity with high frequency, if you want to win, do it every day. And consistently. That's how you win. Yeah, don't sit there for a week, working 80 hours that week, because you can burn stuff out. Yeah, but show up and get it done 5060 hours a week, sometimes you got to do that. And don't stop that pace. Keep that pace, because, in the end, the math works in your favor, you're going to the end of the year, and your total work output is going to be significantly more than anyone who gets in there. And they do crazy hours one week, and they're cooked after that after recovery.
What advice would you offer that business professional who's looking to grow their network?
You have to find active ways to interact with people, at least in your industry. And, you know, just do it and make it a priority. As I said, for me, it's not a natural thing. It's not something I natively want to do. But you will reap rewards from that. It's just like said, the empirical evidence is clear. You can, you can go to any university, and they do track a lot of the data points around success around their graduates, and networking, the ability to have large groups of friends to an extent, the ability to build relationships, these are, these are the key components to any most success factors in life.
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Meet Stuart
Stuart is the founder and CEO of Waymaker.io, an intelligent business management platform that helps leaders build a better business in 30 days. Stuart is a thought leader in strategy systems and leadership development. As the founder of waymaker.io, he has led the creation of the way makers' leadership curve, a relevant, revolutionary way of building clarity, alignments, and remarkable results in any organization.
So what are the three keys to growth for any organization?
Well, I would say this is very high-level and very simple. But number one, clarity, number two, alignment, and number three focus. The clarity in the fundamentals of what we're all about alignment in our team, whether it be 1 or 2, or 10, or 20, or 100, or 1000. And focus on the work that really matters, the priorities that matter. And so those three keys; clarity around what business we're really in, and then the alignment of our team around that and the growth of our team. And the focus, only doing the things that matter. We do an awful lot of things often in business that don't matter that much and chews up an awful lot of time. And so our ability to focus is one of them the third key to making a difference.
Why is strategy confusing to regular business owners? And how can they be more strategic leaders?
That's such a good question. It's a big question. You know, I come from the school of thought that strategy is not a set of actions, but rather a position to hold in the market. And that's often confronting to a small business owner, if you Google the word strategy, you're going to get a definition from Google, that says, a set of activities. And in part, it's kind of mostly right, but it's also mostly wrong. And I love how I think it's Professor Michael Porter from Harvard puts it, strategy is not a set of plans that we do. But rather, it's a position that we create or hold inside a marketplace. And that marketplace could be as big as your local neighborhood, or as big as the world. And I think that's the first big distinction to make around strategy. Strategy is a position we seek to be or we are in the market, and clarity of that position is fundamental to establishing the activities, or the other improvements we would make around holding that position. And I think most business owners missed that fundamental first step of saying, this is the position we want to hold on to be or our and, therefore, focus on doing lots of things thinking that strategic, whereas, in reality, you only need to do the things that hold your position.
How can a leadership team use the waymaker leadership curve to scale?
Sure, sure. The loser curve and you can jump onto our website when america.io hit the Learn tab, and you'll find a bunch of resources on there so you can read about it. That gets some get some free resources to help you in your business. The leadership curve works in this simple way. It says, if we want to build market leadership, then we're going to go through several different stages of growth. Think of our organization like a child, the first stage of growth is ideation. Who, what's the idea for this business, which is kind of like the moment a child is born? The as, as an organization goes through those stages of growth, it'll conquer certain skills and set systems. And those, the maturity in the competencies in those skills and systems will allow them to break through those maturity stages, which ultimately increases the value of that organization. So think of a curve from bottom left going to top to right, go to top right, the bottom axis is time. And left-hand axis values, the longer an organization continues to build those skills and systems into maturity, then the higher the value can be created. So long as those skills and systems are generating value toward your end destination. What do I mean by that, if you're a small business owner, maybe you're a one or a two-person business owner, your business will have some value, but it will only have the value that it can repeatedly find a customer, close that customer, the value for that customer and create a profit for that customer. And if that relies entirely upon you, then it doesn't have a lot of value, because nobody could buy that as an asset and continue to grow. But if as a small business owner, you say, Okay, well, at the moment, everything relies on me, but I'm going to put in a couple of systems, that means it's less reliant on me, then I start to move through the maturity stages, I start to move from, from the early stages of growth into some mid stages of growth, where I'm starting to shift things that I know and things that I do into people around me into systems, which means that it's no longer about an individual, but rather it's about a process a system, a team, a value proposition. And, and that's how we grow to value in organizations, most small business owners do amazing work, but often forget to build a business, not a practice, they forget that they're running something they own, it's an asset. And if they treat it like an asset, then they would start to think differently about the business. And, as long as you get clarity in that some people are very comfortable saying no, this is my business, and it's my job. I like working for myself. I'm only interested, in this being a job. And that's okay, that's so long as that's your strategy. That's where you want to end up. But many want to turn their business into an asset, they want to sell it or sell part of it or, or have it return an income for them while they're not there. And so, excuse me, the leadership curve is, is a pathway away. To make that reality I happen to make that reality happen. And it simply works as you move through those stages of growth. There are certain skills and certain systems in certain parts of the organization that you need to conquer. And that if you don't conquer, that will pull you back to those early stages. And so the leadership curve identifies those. And when you run your business through the leadership curve diagnostic, you see your maturity states in those different schools and systems. And the big idea, it's really simple is on the maturity curve. As you see maturity, it'll have some little traffic lights next to the different skills and systems. You want to see green over those early skills and systems on the curve and you want to see that green going further up the curve. And that's demonstrating identifying where you are or not. And so what we help people see is that gosh, if I can improve these skills or these systems inside my business, then I can start to move this business forward. And contextually we focus on best principles and best practices. You need to relate that to your business and where you're going, but we surface the gaps and let you see where those gaps are. And then you can set your strategic priorities around those. And so quite literally, it shows the pathway to market leadership, what you need to do and achieve to win. I hope that kind of makes sense Lori.
Can you share your most successful or favorite networking experience that you’ve had?
Sure, I think most people unless you're that super extroverted person, somewhat quite fearful of networking. I know I was early on in my career, it was like, gosh, walking into a room or may not know people, you know, what do I do? What do I say? And I think one of the helpful things is to make networking not about yourself, but about the other person. And I think when I had that aha moment, it became a lot easier because you shift the focus on Gosh, what do I need to say to be? What questions can I ask? And, so the most successful experience in networking I've had is choosing to forget about yourself, focus on the other person, and ask questions about them and being interested in their work and the value that I create for their customers. And by default, that will come back to you that will return serve. And, when you connect with somebody because they felt listened to and understood, you'll have a much stronger connection and relationship to establish your value proposition and what you do and tell that person about your services. And so the most successful experience I've had with networking is forgetting about myself, and being interested in other people.
So how do you stay in front of and nurture these relationships you've created?
What's different? I guess we're in a digital business. But the principles are the same. If I throw my mind back to a previous life, where I was in a small business and working in a small business, or local community, the same principles, and that is pick up the phone that whether that be a team call, zoom, call mobile phone and messenger chat, or LinkedIn chat, pick up the phone, and regularly reach out to people and talk to them. It doesn't have to be business-related or sales related, it can just simply be, Hey, how are you going? And, that relationship management, or that relationship-building process really, is simply about letting the other person know, hey, I'm here for you if and when you need it. And I think a lot of small businesses, even if they have a team around them, they're still in, often incredibly alone. And small business owners do it incredibly tough. They don't have boards around them or mentors around them. And so your network becomes people that you can sit down with and have a coffee or wine or, or a chat and ask questions that you can't ask your team. And that's important. So I think that that capacity to build relationships regularly goes okay, there are 10,15,20 people that I'm going to regularly pick up the phone and talk to that's a discipline to build into your weekly habits.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, Bruce, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently concerning your professional career?
Save more, invest more risk, and set higher and more aggressive goals, because the world is so safe around you that you can afford to. You can afford to achieve way much more.
What advice would you offer that business professional who's looking to grow their network?
I'm sure tons of growing your network. Get out there and do it. It's so important. And from a winemaker's perspective, feel free to jump on trial our products, reach out and talk to us. We'd love to support you and help you. It's very simple. Once you get through and learn some simple strategic steps to make your business better. So that promise is true. If you take the diagnostic and put in place the actions recommended, you will start building a better business in less than 30 days.
Connect with Stuart
Meet Sherry
Sherry is the founder of Goldman Communications Group an award-winning public relations agency. Sherry works with companies and nonprofit associations and their leadership, helping them tell their stories and effectively reach key stakeholders. The agency offers strategic counsel messaging, media relations, corporate communications, thought leadership programming, community and industry relations, and crisis communication. Sherry is also an adjunct professor at the City College of New York.
What's the biggest challenge for companies today that want to be seen, be successful, and be known in today's business and media environment?
I think the biggest challenge is being seen and being believed, there is so much stuff out there. Okay. And it's so hard to reach audiences because it's such a fragmented communications environment these days, I mean, you can get your news from whichever channel aligns better with your political views or not. So everyone's not watching the same T. Everyone's not watching the same newspaper on social media, which is fabulous. You choose to follow people who support your already known beliefs, interests, or commonalities, and it amplifies in your bubble. So you're not being exposed to everything that's out there. For companies or organizations, it's hard to crack into that bubble. It's hard to reach people who might be interested in what you're doing, or what you're offering, if they're not in your system, so to speak, if they're not following, and then I think the other big challenge and kind of running all over the place is being authentic. People put stuff out there because they want people to have it. But are they authentic? Do they know who their brand is? Is? Do they know who their target audience is? And how are you making that connection and maintaining that connection? I just think it's so challenging in this fragmented environment to build those relationships and keep those that you need as a company and an organization to succeed. And you know, this, Lori because you deal a lot in digital marketing. Companies put stuff out there. And that's important. But are they taking a step back and understanding who they're trying to reach? And I don't mean targeting them with your math. Because your people are very good at targeting but are they understanding the audience? And the audience cares? What's in it for me? And why should I care? So they understand the value proposition for who they're trying to reach. And then really looking to solve that pain point for that problem. And I think that's a challenge. It's a challenge in the environment we're in where everybody wants something immediately what everybody is, there is so much content out there. So you can say that a company necessarily won't be heard of. But if you and three of your other competitors are out there, how is your target? Customer, your target consumer, your target employee, differentiating you from the competition? And that's where public relations or other things have to factor in, you know, you know, what your brand is, but what's your reputation? How are you demonstrating? What you're telling people about your brand is? How are you showcasing it and being a resource? And that's where I think organizations are relying too much upon, at least that's what I've seen as well as just post it out there. And thinking it's out there, and people may know that they're gonna come and believe, and trust. And I think it takes a lot more to get people to believe and trust, we're a cynical society. There's a lot of competition out there. You know, a little plug from public relations which is what I do. And certainly digital and online is a very big piece of the puzzle and thought leadership. But how are you demonstrating that I mean, there's something to be said if someone's heard of three organizations, but one of them was written up about in the newspaper because the reporter thought had prevented it and thought it was smart enough or relevant enough that they wanted to write about the topic, or they showcased you in an article about a trend. And you're quoted, that elevates the reputation that differentiates you from the competition that comes with what we call that third party endorsement, which is someone else saying something about you.
And that's a piece of the puzzle that helps when they've seen your awareness on social media. And maybe they've clicked on your website, and it looks fabulous. But they all look fabulous. So how are they differentiating that article in a newspaper, that piece in the local news, that seminar or speaking engagements that you might have done in the community or the industry might be the point of differentiation to have their say, I'm gonna go with you. And I think that's where that whole marketing puzzle, the puzzle model that public relations need to factor into it to shelf showcase that a company and organization is helpful, is smart, is authentic. And that to me is very, very important.
What are some best practices for getting started?
I'd say take a step back and have a long-term plan because I think everybody thinks it's gonna happen overnight. I'm gonna be on Instagram, I'm gonna have a million customers. And I think that everybody in general, wants everybody to know about them. And there is no such target audience, everybody, you will not be successful if you don't break it into a million things. Because, again, people hear what's in it for me, why should I care? So you may be selling a widget, but why, but a senior citizen may need that widget very differently than a college student, you could be selling gluten pasta, but somebody who has health issues, needs to hear about it very differently than someone who has diet issues. So once you understand who the target audience is and what's in it for them, then you have to understand where they are. Because again, all social media is not the same. I mean, if I'm trying to reach my nieces or college-aged students, we're not finding them on Facebook, that's for sure. So I don't have a great Facebook campaign. Conversely, if you're trying to reach people, 50, and over social media may not be the first place you want to be out there. You know, they're reading newspapers, they're going to community events. So I think it's really to understand who the target audience is, and understand them. So, you can create something authentic, and meaningful for them. There is not one message, there's not one program, and there's nothing that's going to reach everyone, even if you want to reach everyone, you may need five different programs, your b2b is different than you be the same. And the other thing that I would say, and I think most people are very guilty of is don't talk in your industry jargon. I think we're so used to again, in our bubble amplified people that we talk to all the time, we're in our industry, and we're assuming everybody knows what we know. I mean, I'm guilty, I assume everybody knows what public relations are. But they don't technology, people assume everybody understands their jargon. But the potential customers, the potential clients, the professional potential referrers of your business, may not understand it, and they're not going to do the work to understand this. Somebody has put me on an e-blast list for S A S, which has some kind of software every week. And I know that they are software that's very helpful to small businesses. But I guarantee, nobody knows what that is. So no one goes, let me look it up and see if I want their product or service. They hit delete. Now I'm curious, I Googled it, and found out what it was, but really how poor marketing is if your messaging in your email, subject line, your website, talks about things, that someone who needs your services, doesn't know what it is? So they don't know that they need your services. Okay, make your message for the For Dummies series, make your message for dummies. And that goes back to who's your target audience, the people who are referring you the people who are your prospective customers don't have that knowledge, protect, that's why they need you. So if you talk in technology talk or you talk in accounting, a lawyer talk, they're not going to understand they if they don't understand that they're just going to move on. They're not going to do the research. So really understanding that audience and talking to them in a way that is meaningful to them that they'll understand it go, I need that software. I need that piece of legal advice. I need that product or service. That's going to be the most important thing. And I think most companies don't do that. I think we're all guilty of we assume everybody understands it's easy to have one message for everyone. There is enough stuff people will get What I do, and that's not the case.
How do they apply these practices?
Oh, of course, individuals can do it. You are your brand, right? Yeah, fake authors, celebrities, and audit artists. But you are your brand. And you're your thought leader. And I think it's up to all of us to control, and manage what we want people to think about us, okay, it's up for us to tell our story. It's up to us to make sure we are visible, and what we want people to know about it. I'm sure that's one of the reasons you do the podcast, right? It's, it's a piece of what you're managing. So decide what you want to be a thought leader or know about. And then where do you want people to know about it, decide what your brand is, stick to it and tell your story? And I will say that one of the challenges is, when it comes to social media, everyone posts things everywhere. But if you're doing one thing professionally, maybe stick that on LinkedIn. But keep your stuff off of LinkedIn. And maybe just keep it on Instagram. Because if you're looking for a job, if you're looking for a promotion, if you're looking for industry positions are visibility. And people can look at it and either they see your political views or they see things that they think Wow, they're not as grown up as I thought they were, or oh my god, this, that will hurt your reputation. So you have to manage what's out there. And what's visible, and it's a challenge. There's no question about it.
Can you share your most successful or favorite networking experience that you’ve had?
Networking is a tactic of marketing. It's all about making exactly Yes. Yep. So it shouldn't be any different. Listen, I met you through networking Lord, you sure. I've got my first clients from my PR agency, which will be 26 years next month, through networking. My first client came from somebody I had been involved with in the Public Relations Society of America's New York chapter. And he and I had run industry awards programs together. And he said, my wife, is looking for a PR agency to handle a project. Bingo. That's how I got another one. I got my teaching gigs that way. Because I had been in awards judging met someone who said she ran an agency and also a track at Long Island University in public relations. And I'd say I'd be interested in exploring teaching someday. Two and a half years later, my phone rings and she says, Sherry, this is Abby, I have a teaching opportunity for you. I had forgotten I have even said that. And She taught and taught there for seven years. And now it's City College because someone else I know for networking had been called to teach there and she said it was a conflict, to call sherry. So almost every opportunity that I've gotten, has come through networking. Most of my clients come from referrals and referrals or networking. Networking is just putting yourself out there and meeting people and the challenge of networking is staying in touch. The best networking is not selling. I think when I go to networking events, sometimes people are just selling I sell this, I sell this, I sell this who do you know, I? I get standoffish. That's not what it's about. It's about making those relationships. It's about making those connections. It's public relations. Right? It's connecting one-on-one it's showing your smarts it's being a resource, it's being available, and over time and then the network is staying in touch. It will generate everything that you can have
So how do you stay in front of and nurture these relationships you've created?
I'm old school, I call, I write emails, I am that annoying person, I shouldn't say annoying person, that detail person that if we have a conversation, and you tell me, oh, when three months, my husband and I are going on vacation, I'm putting a note in my calendar. So in four months, I can ride, hey, just touching base, and how was that vacation, because people want to be remembered. So I like to make sure I touch base with people at least a few times a year. If there's an article that I see or something that might be relevant to their industry, I'm saying, Hey, I read this today, and it made me think of you let's catch up. So the more that you can remember what they say jot down notes, and then make sure you follow up. So I think the key is just to take the initiative but to be really as targeted as you can.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, Bruce, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently concerning your professional career?
I probably should have specialized I was the classic generalist in PA AR and I've done a little bit of everything. And my clients are across the board from Green Tech to consumer products to business services to nonprofits to labor unions. And I love the diversity. But I could never have predicted the world would have focused on specialist specialization. And I get calls from prospective clients going, Well, have you done cookies? We're looking for someone who's done cookie PR. Well, I've done cake PR Well, no, we only want cookies. So I think people are looking for specialization these days, which I don't think is necessarily good. I think there's something to be said for broader thinking and bringing that to the puzzle. But I probably would have specialized more. And then I was really shy. And I didn't speak up enough if I disagreed with something, or take more control of the situation. So I wish I had more of a spine back then. But I do now it just took me a little longer than most.
What advice would you offer that business professional who's looking to grow their network?
Oh, two things. Listen, everybody goes trying to talk talk, talk, listen, be a sponge, and listen and absorb what's around you. And then the other thing I would say is to be a resource. Always be willing to help in public relations. You know, you're always pitching journalists. What if you could be a resource for journalists? So maybe the journalist will say, Listen, I'm not writing a story about your client, but I'm doing it on this topic. How do you know if can you give me some background information, or if they're thinking of writing a story about your client, but they can't just write about your client? So maybe you give them to other companies doing similar schematics and write about the topic in your included? Okay, be a resource. I find too many people in networking going, I don't want to give away free advice. I don't want to give away free 20 minutes to talk to people. Why not? Why not be a resource? This is about demonstrating and showcasing that you are smart, that you are helpful. You have good information, particularly true if you're in the service business versus selling a widget. Be a resource people want to work with people who are available and thoughtful and we need to demonstrate that to be helpful. Make connections with other people. It doesn't always have to come back to you it will come back I guarantee it.
Connect with Sherry
Meet Bruce
Bruce is the CEO and founder of BKM Marketing a Boston-based integrated marketing agency focused on helping clients grow their businesses. BKM marketing creates about 100 campaigns a year for clients, typically producing millions of direct mail pieces, online display ads, emails, social, social media posts, and more. But he's not here to talk about that today. Two years ago, Bruce became interested in understanding how his firm contributed to global warming. So he engaged a class of MBA students to measure his firm's carbon footprint and examine the marketing industry's carbon impact as a whole.
What prompted you to spend so much of your time and energy on climate change?
Well, you know, it's really interesting. First and foremost, I live in the Washington area, and we have an ocean nearby. And everyone's concerned about how you know how high those oceans going to get. And, you know, when you start looking inwardly, it's, why is there so much concern about climate change right now, and it's because of human activity. So I own a small business, and we do a lot of stuff that might be part of the problem. So I wanted to take a good close look at what it is my company does, how what kind of impact that has, and also the industry. And it was enlightening to see how much damage we are doing as and not just our industry, lots of industries are like this. And so we wanted to measure it and see what we could do to offset what we're doing and reduce what we're doing. And believe it or not, that helps me make sleep a little bit better at night. And we were very lucky to find out that we can offset not only our impact but all the client work that we do. And so far, it's been very well received. And one of the things that we get asked some follow-up to is that all the time is okay, do business customers care about whether or not the companies that are doing business with actually really care if the company cares about the environment? And the answer is overwhelming. Lots of different studies on this. Probably the most interesting fact is that 92% of customers are more likely to trust a company that supports any kind of social or environmental issue. That's nine out of 10. When you look at millennials 68% of millennials buy a product with a social environmental benefit. More often than not, they seek it out It's whole, it's really good business, in addition to good for the environment.
So how can our listeners go about making their businesses net zero now?
Well, there are several ways to go about it, the first thing you have to do is learn what is your carbon footprint, and it varies from business to business, of course, and industry to industry. So one of the things we ended up learning is how little knowledge there is about US-based businesses, and what the impact they make on the environment is to do a whole lot of research. And most of that research will point you to a bunch of resources coming out of Europe, Europe is certainly I don't know how many years but a half a decade, decade ahead of the United States in terms of really trying to combat sources of global warming. So I can, you know, walk you through an example of what we ended up doing, or how we went about it. Yeah. And, but I do want to make sure that this isn't about, you know, us looking great. Doing, this is something that we think every business can do. So we didn't know the first thing about it two years ago. And so we found an MBA class at Suffolk University in Boston, that was looking for a partner to become the topic for the course. And so we had about 29 Students take a look at, our business and our industry. And we asked them to figure out how can we actually calculate the carbon impact our business has on the environment, and not just us. But certainly, you know, all the work we do for the clients. And with Greek, we do a lot of direct mail work, as you mentioned in my bio, outside looking in, boy, that means you're cutting down trees. And that is true. And you know, after the tree is cut down, the tree has to find its way to a paper mill, that's got to burn off a lot burn a whole bunch of carbon. From there, the paper mill has to process it into something that actually can be printed on, and then, it has to go someplace where it actually can get printed. So there's, we made a whole bunch of assumptions based on the best knowledge that we had.
Can you share your most successful or favorite networking experience that you’ve had?
There's an organization called Agency Management Institute, it's a community of like-minded people trying to tackle like-minded. similar challenges. Even though it's a group of folks that are competing, sometimes quite, quite aggressively with each other. It's a community. And, you know, if you're just talking about, you know, how hard it is to find great people to join your agency right now, that's hard, and being able to network with folks that have that type of, of issue, and they want to help they, you know, maybe they have someone on their team that's not you know, being as productive or not a great fit, but they can find out that it's a great fit for someone else. Who has that, you know, a similar need for that type of person? That's what, you know, building communities is all about, you know, one of our target audiences here for what we're doing, which is, you know, pro bono on steroids is we're trying to get other marketing companies to think more about how they're contributing to global warming. And you know, the AMI network is perfect for that. And, you know, we're still just getting going in our movement here at zero marketing. Excuse me, net zero now, dot marketing. But, no, we aren't getting, you know, some interest. And we're happy to share this because it's good for everybody. It's good for our business.
How do you stay in front of and nurture those relationships in that network in that community that you create?
Well, social media is certainly important. I find in my circle, LinkedIn is super powerful. So let's, you know, coming out of a pandemic, it's interesting to start mingling with real humans and, you know, being able to shake hands give hugs and things like that. It's all, you know, making sure we are, it places where, you know, our community is, is very important. But I think a lot of us were getting used to hiding behind, if you can call this hiding, hiding behind the zoom camera. And, you know, some folks have been, you know, reticent to get get back out there, or when they're out there, you almost forget how to be Truly Social. So I encourage anyone to listen right now. That's, that's a comfort zone that I don't think we all want it to be in the beginning, just myself, personally. Sure, getting out and talking to people and you know, beginning to have group meetings and getting together with clients face to face again, it's just been fantastic. And but it has taken. It's moving into a new comfort zone again.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, Bruce, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently concerning your professional career?
Listen to my gut more than other influencers I have in my life. So I for one started my career at I was always known as a marketing guy, and spent my early 20s at Procter and Gamble, helping them sell lard in the form of Duncan Hines products, Pringles potato chips, and Crisco oils. And, you know, as a marketing guy, but that wasn't going to be for me, because everything was convincing folks to spend $1.49 on lard. So what did I do, I went back to business school, then I became a banker, which is not anything I wanted to be, but somehow there was an expectation, I think that that was a good prudent move. And that expectation came from my parents and their friends and things like that. And but all along there, my gut was saying, you know, I really shouldn't be doing something different than being you know, a guy that was you know, being a product manager for products that didn't matter as much to me as you know, the fun of creating, creating needs and communications and things like that. So it probably took me a while. 20 years to break out of that. But my gut all along was saying, you know, this isn't the right career for you. So I guess that would be the advice there. We all have a gut. We have intuition. And we have, you know, messaging, it's in our head that conflicts with the environment we're in often. I think, you know, over time, I've gotten better at that. But if I did that in my 20s, I can't imagine what my life would be like now.
Any final words or advice you'd like to offer our listeners about growing and supporting your network?
I think if you there's always any situation has a right answer. And any wrong answer. Sometimes you might need to think through the gray area a little bit. But most of us, I think know what the right thing to do is in this situation. That would be the advice to do the right thing.
Connect with Bruce
Email: bmcmeekin@bkmmarketing.com
Meet Annie
She is a former Disney storyteller, Best Selling Author, six-figure founder, and branding expert. In 2013, she quit a dream job telling stories at the Walt Disney Studios to start her agency, Greatest Story Creative. Since then, Annie has branded 125+ businesses spoken for 1000s. And release two best-selling books, including her newest, Established Yourself, Brand, Streamline and Grow Your Greatest Business.
What's the best way to grow a service business without living on social media?
This is what I get all the time. Because you know, nobody, nobody that I know in real life wants to live on social media wants to like have to be on all the platforms and posting what they had for dinner. And so many people feel like they don't want to put themselves out there in that way. And, you know, I think it's possible to grow a service-based business without relying on 24/7 social media. And I had to carve that path out for myself. That's a little bit of how I've been able to grow my business to consistent six figures by letting go of what the Guru constantly says about how you have to do this 24/7 Bro marketing approach. I tried all that it almost burnt me the heck out. And back in 2016, I decided you know what, I'm gonna double down on relationships. I'm gonna double down on making the business I already have the best possible business it can be and not stressing about my follower count and my likes and all of these things that seem like they're important, but weren't moving the needle for me. And that's, you know, you just mentioned my new book. That's exactly what I'm sharing and establish yourself. Is that process? How do you take your existing business and make it take it to a new level of passion and profit without it being all about social media, there are so many ways to grow a business. And I know that's something you talk about a lot, Laurie with those that you interview, because with this being social capital and being about relationships, right, like people just forget that even the things you see online happen because of those behind-the-scenes relationships. And so what I teach and what I practice myself is to not stress about 24/7 marketing, but instead optimize the people you already know your past clients, your current clients, your referral partners, and make sure those relationships are fantastic. Get in front of them consistently. And if you do those kinds of things, you can have a sustainable business that you love that loves you back and not have, you know, more than just a couple, a handful of followers on social media.
Lori: I agree with that. And I've seen several startups or I like to call them solopreneurs where their corporate turned into entrepreneurs. Focus on building their social media. But really, that's just one piece of the puzzle. There's a lot of movement and area that you can lead to traction can happen without even using social media. Social media is a great place to have one message communicated to many people at once. But it takes time and consistency but it shouldn't be the end of all
How do I stand out with my marketing?
That's like I think everybody's favorite question to ask like how do I stand out? And I like it but I'm going to ask are a different way, which is it's the wrong question altogether. Okay, because I think that everybody is. So I think everyone thinks that their kind of main consideration with marketing is standing out that, oh, I need to come up with something original. So I get people's attention. And I'm sort of of the mind that nothing, there's nothing original under the sun, like, you're not going to create something that is just so different from what everybody else says that that is going to be your marketing, that is an efficient strategy. And sort of, you know, there are only so many words in the English language, for example, to describe what a leadership coach does or doesn't do. And people are kind of trying to search for this elusive perfect message and perfect logo and ways to sort of stand out. And when I say is trade standing out for understanding, there's way too much focus on this creativity. But creativity doesn't mean anything without context. Yep. So I know you, you and I, Laurie, I'm sure you've had people on the show. I won't have your name names. But some people say what they do, and you're just like, your eyes glaze over. You're like, what did they just say? Like, that sounded good. I'm sure they get what I call people who are seeking applause instead of action. Because if you're getting a reaction to what you're saying, you're likely not necessarily getting revenue from it is that there are two different reactions, like when people kind of clap for you, like, I don't think that's a good sign. I think that that's a sign of, Wow, that's relative. I have no idea what that would mean for me or anyone I know. But that sounds like, that's, that's the impression I used to get when I go around saying, Hey, I'm a Business storyteller. Like I help you tell your story and your business. And like, I absolut. But nobody understood the context of that. So they go, Wow, that's so amazing. And the phone wouldn't ring, right? And, and now I proudly embrace that, like, so many 1000s of people do this. I do branding. And I'm most known for helping you tell your story. And I embrace that, like, that's okay for me to lead with something that a lot of people do because it's the context that matters first, for the creativity to come in later. So I think that that's something where some permission to let go of this, like, I think this sort of impossibly high bar to stand out. It's not about standing out, like if people understand what you do, and you develop strong relationships, you can have a successful service business, you absolutely can. And that's often I think the thing holding back a lot of the folks that come into contact with them are so wanting the security blanket of a creative message, that they don't even seem to care much that people don't get it. Because they think it's doing the marketing for them. And instead, it's possibly confusing and repelling their ideal client. Sure.
Can you share your most successful or favorite networking experience that you’ve had?
Sure. You know, it's one of those things, it's, you know, in the book that I that I've released with establishing yourself, I go through four, six areas of business, and one of them is referral relationships. And I prioritize that first over general marketing. So you're like, right there in that zone of like, it's so important to, to network, but to do so really intentionally trying to think of like an exact maybe a story about networking? I don't know, like, I think I think it's, I think the magic happens when you put yourself in the orbit of people who are in similar kinds of businesses. And so I, you know, I think we've both been there when we have had our brain picked, and we're exhausted. And we're just like meeting with the wrong people. And our time is being wasted. I've gotten some of the best connections from investing and being part of some sort of a group, a group, not just any group, but a group that aligned with my values. So So what came to mind when you asked me about a story was I had joined this collaboration catalyst group that never could ask about as I don't think she runs it anymore. But she was sort of pairing people who were at similar places, service-based business owners with accountability partners and that kind of thing. And so it was a good pond for me to be with people who are in similar places. And I met this woman named Draya Jones. And she's, she's an incredible social media expert. She's, she'll be the first to teach you not to overdo it not to be on every platform. I liked her common sense strategies, but we became fast friends back in, I think it was 2017. But because of that connection, she went on to be my first guest when I have a show called branding with friends. So she's just been our only two-time guest. She just came back and she just had a baby all at the same time. But you know, being able to meet her, and then she introduced me to a dear friend of hers that came into her work orbit called Megan Megan sin. She is an incredible burnout, burnout-free business coach. So if you struggle, you want to have a seamless business. Megan's a great resource, especially as a therapist. And that's also been such a rewarding connection. So just because I knew Draya Draya connected me to Megan, Megan and I have become good friends. And I've spoken for her mastermind. I've worked with many of her clients. And it's just like an excellent fit. So I'm all about networking when it's a good use of my time. And I think that, for me, the takeaway from the story is when you want to network, don't think about who you want to be around, and try to get yourself in the communities of people even if you have to pay to be in that gate with you know, whatever it is a month to try it out to be around the people that are good for you to meet and worthwhile for you to be networking with. Because, you know, all things being equal. We can't take every virtual coffee that you know, someone else wants to have with us. We got to be strategic if we don't want to spend a million hours on our business every week. So that's what I would say is seeking out those communities to get those rewarding relations. tips to help grow your business.
How do you stay in front of and nurture those relationships in that network in that community that you create?
I think I think that's important to call out because, you know, I've one of the things I'm always talking about is how like, you don't have to have 1000s on your email list to have a successful business. But you do have to be top of mind with people. And so my best advice for that is really, and what I have been practicing is creating what I call consistency containers, or consistency container systems. So consistency is my bottom StrengthsFinder strength. It's like at the very bottom of the 34 different profiles, which I was shocked to learn. But it makes sense that I've been able to be so strongly consistent because I have systems. After all, I have a way of doing things. So a couple of ways I stay in touch with people on my list and just people in my network. I don't like I used to write a log every week. And that was so draining, and I wasn't seeing the return on it. And it was so much time. And I said you know what I was going on maternity leave, like forget this. And I started a show, as I just mentioned, called branding with friends, and branding with friends hit a lot of goals for me because it was something I could delegate something I could automate. It's a YouTube show that gets syndicated to my blog. And I send out an email about it every month when the new episodes come out. And it allows me to interview people who are experts at what they do, but they intersect with branding. So I had Draya on to talk about posting on LinkedIn I've had, I just had an expert come on to talk about inclusivity and your branding or confidence in branding and having people come on so it allows me to network better. So I'm always seeking guests that allow me to kind of meet complimentary referral partners, right? So it gives me a way to make those introductions pretty naturally, feature them to my audience, and then have content for my audience. It's very on brand. So like my best content, because I am a high-ticket branding services person who does your marketing, messaging your consistent visual branding, and website, I need to always be getting in front of people and talking about what branding is and what the value of it is, you know, my goal. And the goal of my content, staying in front of people is not about teaching people how to do their logos. It's about making sure that people know that branding is important and know that I'm a great resource when they're ready to invest and up-leveling their business. So branding, my friend allows me to do that. And I have been able to do three episodes since I launched it right before my maternity leave about a little over two years ago. And so we've been consistent with that. And then I have I batch my social media. So I don't touch my social media, but once a year, I run it through a tool called a Smarter cue. And other than that, I just really try to be genuine and ensure my clients on even simple things. Like I just had my assistant go in and have everybody's birthday so that every for the first three years I knowing somebody they're getting an email from me on their birthday that says personalize it says hey, you know, I love that we're working together wishing you a happy birthday. I don't have to do it. But it's a great way to stay on top of mind with people.
What advice would you offer the business professionals looking to grow their network?
If you're looking to grow your network, I think one of the things that that doesn't come naturally to you, you could consider starting some sort of consistency container, whether that's that YouTube shows podcast or blog interview series that has given me a natural way to reach out to people that I admire that I would want to have a connection with. So again, I think having that intentionality of having something to offer them doesn't have to be a show but that's one example. Being reciprocal is huge. Being a clear communicator about what you do. I have something for everybody that I know Laurie is going to share with you shortly that will help you do these things. But you know, my best advice is truly to be very genuine, be very reciprocal. If you're asking someone to meet, like see what you can do to support them and be good about follow-up. There are so many people I meet with who I never hear from again, I never really stay a part of their lives and never hear from them. And that's a loss for them and me, so, you know, having those parts of a relationship is not just that first coffee, it's staying in touch. So what are you doing once you've met somebody to let them know what you're up to? You know, when you have that new thing, keeping that list and, you know, not in class, but like letting people know, like, Hey, I'm working on this, that you'd find it interesting. That kind of thing that works hard to do, especially without assistance. But when you have it, that is an authentic way to grow your network that is not going to be about numbers, but about the quality of people who have formed relationships with you.
What would you tell yourself to do more or less differently concerning your professional career?
Oh, my gosh, I love that question. So I would tell myself to give myself more permission, more permission to do things that felt scary. And it's funny to ask this question this way because my first book is called permission to try. And it is that exact question as a book. So it is, you know, what would I tell myself when I was 27 years old, and working at the Walt Disney Studios and pondering quitting the dream job I had worked so hard to get. So that's what that book is about, as anybody who's thought about, especially in your 20s, thinking about pivoting, thinking about quitting something and not especially something good, and not knowing what's going to come next and how scary that can feel kind of giving yourself a pep talk about changing your life. And so, better or worse, I've cathartically processed that kind of a question and put the answers into, or at least my best answers into a self-development book
Connect with Annie
Meet Nicki
Her passion is empowering leaders to challenge and expand their thinking to increase performance, well-being, and joy in their lives. She is a life and executive coach with over 10 years of experience helping individuals and organizations achieve remarkable results. Nicki will help you achieve your power, live your purpose and create the freedom to live the life that you want. She loves delicious food traveling and adventures with her husband, Michael, and dog Pico de gallo.
So what do you recommend to others who struggle with finding out what it is that they want to do?
Yeah, I hear this. Often, I think, you know, most people can relate to that when they're fresh out of college or even earlier now, I was in a conversation with one of my nieces who's only 14. And she's already grappling with what she wants to be when she grows up. So whether it's, you know, trying to figure it out, what do I want to be, or people that are already established in careers, whether it's five years 10, 15 or 20 years or more and, but want to explore whether they want to do something different or not. I'm a career changer, myself, I made a decision that I needed my career to be something I'm passionate about. And I struggled to figure out what I wanted to do. My background is in politics and government, I was Deputy Press Secretary for a state official when I lived in Pennsylvania. And it was an amazing experience and education and you know, to see how the government works and be a part of it. But I was deeply sad because I didn't have that fulfillment that I knew I wanted. And not everyone needs to have that fulfillment or passion throughout their career. But I knew that I wanted that. So I hired a coach to help me figure out, you know what I wanted to do. And after much exploration, I fell in love with coaching, because I experienced and felt the exercises and tools and got the massive impact it had on me in my life. And there were a few things I had to take look at a really hard look in the mirror.
Lori: Wow, yeah, I agree. And I can relate to a lot of what you're saying, and just my journey and a lot of different buckets, I don't even know where to start with some of that. But one of the things I think you'll find this quite entertaining, you're talking about, like this negative talk that goes in our head. And through some of the coaching that I've gone through, you learn to kind of give it a name and tell it to shut up. I call mine a drunken monkey you're drunk go home. But learning in that process to just realize that I am in control of the situation. And I am in control of you know, creating my destiny has allowed me to be who I am today and where I am today and build the path that I want to be in and you know, take take the long road or the fast path, you know, whatever route I want to go based on the experiences that I want in life and that's what I find brings me the most joy is having new experiences. I think that's what makes me bolder and stronger and gives me greater power. perspective. But it took me a long time to realize that.
What advice do you have to offer on the balance between work and life?
Yeah, this is a hot client issue. I mean, not even just with my clients, it's everywhere. And I think everyone's trying to crack the nut and figure it out. So I do see it in all fields and industries. I think if you're an entrepreneur, the irony is most likely that you chose to do that to be your boss and have that autonomy. And then most of us, at some point, fall into that black hole of being a workaholic, which is the lesson that I learned, which I'm no longer by the way. But if you know, the same thing with an executive leadership role, time and time again, I just hear people say, Yeah, I took a role or took a promotion or want to do it. But my health and my family time, and my personal life is suffering. So it's a widespread issue. And I would say the first step is that balance, like what that means to you, back to what we were talking about with joy, it has to be defined by you and you alone, understanding yourself and how you tick, this isn't something that you can get from outside of you or that comparison that we tend to do with people. Because the answer is truly within you, right, like identifying your own needs from a holistic perspective? And it's where we have to distinguish between, I'm sure you've heard the expression, don't should on yourself, you know, shouldn't you know, distinguish between that, right? It's a slippery slope because there are expectations from our society, there are expectations whether you know, depending on the role in your family, different cultural expectations. And that takes a lot of discernment, like weeding through that, right? And I know it sounds like you did that for yourself to figure out what you needed. And same with me. And it's an ongoing thing. All of this is ongoing.
Lori: Yeah I have invested time into this, but I by no means have a perfect plan flushed out. This is an evolution.
What do you say to the people that get stuck or don’t know where to begin?
Yeah, it's a hard place to be, it's painful. It's really, it's excruciating. And it can be frustrating. And so I would say there isn't a one-size fits. So maybe some of these questions that I'm putting out here can be helpful. So my question would be, are you wanting to grow? Are you ready to get unstuck, is there no faking that, right? Like you're either ready, or you need to make a change, which is scary. It's going to ignite your fight or flight system, you're going to be a drunk monkey or some version of that, and are you willing to hang in there too, make the change that life is bringing to you, otherwise, you wouldn't be feeling stuck. If you're feeling stuck, there's a desire for something else or pain. And I'm using the pain in quotes, like the discomfort or frustration or pain of the situation you're in isn't working for you anymore. So you know, where do you want to grow? Do you want to grow emotionally? Do you want to grow as a leader? Do you want to grow in your leadership style? Or build a new skill set? Are you trying to attack a brand new goal? And so you know, those are the questions that I think are a good place to start. I would say a couple of other things that I think are important is that you know, we all do have blind spots. So whether it's a coach or a therapist, or a trusted friend or your partner, a colleague at work, you know, asking for that feedback, asking them what do you see? Because it is very hard to see the water you swim in, right?
Can you share your most successful or favorite networking experience that you’ve had?
Yes, I would love to, and I think you hit the nail on the head with networking. I mean, it is most people dread it unless you're super, super social. And it's a super people person. So I'm glad you're holding the torch for this and creating a platform for it. And I love that we can talk about it because it is such a huge part of being successful. Right? So absolutely. I do Well, I think how we got connected is a success story. So during the pandemic, I, you know, was ready to expand my network. And I started just jotting down movers and shakers and people who had been connected to through life that I wanted to know more about, or I felt like they believed in me, or we had enough of a connection, where I believed in them. I thought they were smart. I admired them for some reason. And then slowly just worked my way down the list. So one of them was our friends that we have in common, and had some awesome conversations with her, and also asked her, you know, I felt like we were at the point we've known each other now for several years, even though there had been big gaps of time we stayed in touch. And so, you know, I said, Here's, I feel like you're someone that believes in me and gets me and vice versa. And I'd love to if you were willing to connect me to people then you're in at work that you think are stellar people, I'm looking for long-term relationships and connections. And if we don't vibe, that's fine. You know, I'm looking to see if there's a spark there. Yes, there's a connection that we can help each other and build and grow on and I agree with you. I feel like you're only as strong as your network. And she connected the two of us. And then I knew you had a podcast, I had listened to several of the episodes, and we got on and we were just chit-chatting. And you asked if I wanted to be on your podcast. I was shocked. I had no idea how you picked your guest, or if you know how it all works. And it was such a delightful, surprising experience. And I'm excited to dig into your business and our love of development together and see where this goes.
How do you stay in front of and nurture those relationships in that network in that community that you create?
I was hoping to hear from you. Because I feel like you're the guru on that, for that question, but I do want to hear from you at some point, whether it's on the podcast or later. I hadn't seen that. I think that you know, in person is such a special experience. And because of remote working and the pandemic that we've had in people's lives, when we talk about their work-life balance, I think a mix of both of you know, if you need to do a quick LinkedIn message, or you know, to set up a conversation, I think that's a nice thing to do. I think, you know if you have a newsletter, or you just pick up the phone and leave someone a message when you're thinking of them, I think it can be overwhelming and intimidating. of you know, oh, how do I nurture my network? Right, that feels like a big mountain to climb. But I think that you know, there are ways to have it be genuine and fit into your life in a balanced way. I think just thinking about how, you know, just like you saying that out loud for the audience is like having them ask themselves, how do I nurture my network? Am I doing that? I need to get on it. So yeah, I do I just do my best to keep up and sometimes I do better than others.
What advice would you offer the business professionals looking to grow their network?
I think what you said about hosting events, I don't I think just because you're, you know, possibly new at networking doesn't mean you can't create a meetup or create some kind of themed event that would bring, like you said, back to your What are you trying to achieve, that would bring people together, whether it's a specific industry related, like industries are a great place to start because they'll bring people with a commonality together. But I think you can even make it fun to like if you have a specific sport, and you bring 50 people together, you're likely to find someone in that, you know, a group that you can make a great connection to. I think just going for it as you said, you know, take the risk, reach out, send a note, ask someone for coffee, you can even have it on your goals, you know, once a week, ask someone for coffee or once a month, right? So you can track it and see, you know, am I doing it? Or is this just a nice lofty thought in my head? And like you said, be a valuable resource, I think asking how you can help. After you make the connection is where you truly get to know the person. And what they're all about is, you know, always offering that if I can, like you say if I can ever be a resource or help to, you know, let me know, it feels so good to help someone out. And I think it is like you said that valuable like providing that value. And I think people might hear that and wonder, but I don't know what value I have to provide. How do I know? You will find out because someone will have a need, and you'll either have experienced it or you can make a referral. Or you can tell them about how it went when you had that particular thing happen. Yeah, that's, that's my advice.
What is the offer you’ve got for our listeners?
Yes. If anybody has been moved or inspired to further their development in any way, I would love to offer your listeners a 30-minute complimentary coaching session where they can take some time to reflect on some of the things that may have opened up during this podcast. And of course, it's confidential and it's professional at all, and it's a way that I market, you know, to people. So it's a way for me to share what I do. And I know that people will leave with tremendous value. So there's no pressure to, you know, take on a coaching package or anything like that. But I know it will be a great experience. So if, you know, a listener wants this, just reference social capital that they were listening to the podcast, and we'll set it up. There's a form that they can fill out. There's also Instagram. You can message me on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter, I'm on them all. My handle is Nikki Gorini. And we can just get connected there. And then we'll, we'll go from there.
Connect with Nicki
https://www.linkedin.com/in/domenica-nicki-gorini-pcc-executive-and-life-coach-70164a37/
Meet Pieter
Pieter is the founder and CEO of Mobilo with the smart business card, he has had his fingers on the pulse of technology since the 1990s. Starting multiple companies and taking on 3d printing. After a period of consulting and failed startup projects. Peter stumbled upon RFID and its untapped potential. This led to the launch of Mobilo.
How are you tying in networking versus advertising?
I think networking is often scary. And advertising is a little easier, even though you're putting yourself out there in a different way. It's a little less confrontational, right, running an ad is, is easier to do. Networking might be a bigger step for some people. On the other hand, it's all about strategic fit. So when I think about networking versus advertising, look back at your product and figure out what's important for you. Do you really prefer to meet a couple of people? And can that make your a month or quarter? A big time? Or do you really need to be with the masses and find the right fit there? So what do you think Laurie? What was your first thought you heard about this?
Lori: well, networking, I thought you just had to be in the big in the, in the sea of the masses. My perspective has changed a lot though. I mean, this is definitely what I'm fascinated with. And it's, it's more about the investment, the long-term investment with a few people as opposed to, you know, short snippets of time with many many people.
How can they collaborate and cooperate together?
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I've heard, which makes me think about something I've heard an artist not too long ago rapper, saying, Hey, I'm going to build my fan base one fan at a time, add one fan per day, basically. And I imagine that right if you build your network to be three or 65 people, by the end of the year, you could organize an event. And if all 365 people are legit, gentlemen. If fans are interested in what you have to say or, or good community then that will be worth it to organize the events by itself, right? If you fill a room with 200 people, it would already be a great event, I think even 50 people would already be would be fantastic. So that's what you can do with networking. Obviously, if I would stand outside here, New York City, and I would go outside and walk up to Times Square, I would meet 120,000 people every single day. But if I don't have anything to tell them that resonates with them, I'm shooting I'm shooting in the dark.
Lori: I 100% agree. And that's where those two, advertising and networking kind of tie in together because you're getting some conciseness with your messaging, and clarity with your messaging is what ultimately attracts people to you. When you have that initial conversation with him like you're the speed networking. I mean, you've got 30 seconds to wow, someone you want to have a really polished message. And that's kind of where the marketing and advertising come into play.
How do you see potential in undervalued technology?
Well, first of all, I am a real techie. And I think I, my father have brought me very early on in touch with computers. And so my love for technology really, really grew. And we, beyond the necessity, the necessity of technology, but I consider myself a geek, a nerd. But now that technology is really taking taken over so much of our lives. I, I really think it's important that technology is there as an assistant, it should be on the side. But it should be catching wherever we, as human beings can be served and helped and maybe some friends I'll give you an example. I think one of the reasons why I love Mobilo is because it helps me stay in touch with people in the perfect way. I still need to make it personal. That's what I have to do as a human but I forget that I've met people or forget what I've spoken to them about. And as I'm super jealous of my wife who doesn't forget anything, whenever we go to birthday parties, or in general she always whispers in my ear that you know this person was We met at that party over there. And that was, and remembers even a husband or wife's name, that I'm so bad at that. And I believe that technology could be a great assistance there. And as long as it's not intrusive, then then I think we're on the right track.
Lori: Yeah, I agree with that. And I'm glad that you said it as long as it's not intrusive because I think that there's a lot of reservation around advancing things in some people's minds because of that.
Now you're in New York City, what's been your biggest surprise and, the shift that you've made?
Oh, surprise, yes. Lots of lots of surprises. In the beginning, I thought that New York was relatively similar to the culture in Amsterdam, people are direct. You know, the Dutch are often seen as direct sometimes. Blunt, and, and rude as well. They don't mean that I'm just sticking out here for my fellow Dutch people, but they mean well, but yes, they will ask you about things that they're sincerely wondering. And they will, they will, they will say it's when somebody else when they think something's dumb, they will say, Ooh, I think that's pretty dumb. And that's something that you would never, ever hear, even from the most direct people in New York, I think. So. I was I really had to adjust to thinking a little bit more about how I set things, even though I might still have been in the same mindset I, you know, communication is a true skill. And I believe that I've gotten a little bit better at it through ups and downs, and various conversations with people that said, Hey, you really can't say that that way. But some things that came out of that were really that I'm a lot better at communicating about but also addressing things. When things aren't working, I won't beat around the bush and will pull somebody into a separate room and say, Hey, I have the feeling or that this is really working. What do you think? And then start a conversation from there. And on the other side, when things are working, you can re-cheer them on and there's no better way to celebrate than then with people that know how to celebrate and I think if I would compare to two worlds then definitely. We're better off celebrating here in the US than anywhere else.
Lori: Fascinating, fascinating. I love the directedness. I didn't know that much. I don't have many European contexts in my back pocket. I've interviewed a handful of people over time. But I'm a very direct human being. So I love that that's kind of the overall personality. Which is interesting to share.
Can you share your most successful or favorite networking experience that you’ve had?
Yeah, absolutely. When I just moved to New York, I helped a company pivot from b2c to b2b. And with that, we had to build a sales team. So I hired a few sales, folks, and then thought it would be a good idea to get a sales trainer for a couple of days in to really have everybody bond. And also, I selfishly wanted to get this illustrator on board so that I could get some coaching as well for the anticipated cultural differences. So one of the things that this illustrator said to me, Peter, let's go networking. And so he, this was really like, you know, sales coaches, maybe you have a certain idea with that, and, and some are great, some are not so great. I'll leave that in the middle. This guy was fantastic. Not only was he able, to teach skills, like closing a deal without making it super salesy, but also he said period, you have to come with me go networking, and put your elevator pitch to the test. And his definition of networking was just so different than mine. And I didn't find that out until I met him at that event. And I can still remember it as a day off yesterday, I showed up with 25 business cards. And so I found my guy and walked into a room with about 70 or 80 people. And this was the New York executive club if I remember correctly. And so you looked at me, you had kind of one glass of beer in one hand, and then the snack and the other and was mouth a half full of food. He said, Okay, let's go. How much viscose did you bring? I said, 25, he laughed at me and said that's, that's not enough, my friend, you're going to be out of business going half an hour. That Okay, well, that's scary. I used to speak to four or five people. And that would be a successful evening of networking for me for an hour and a half. So we're going to do it differently. So this guy as a sales strategy trainer knew everybody in that whole room. So he simply smacks me around the room. And the first person that was next to us, he said, hey, whatever his name was, John, John talked to Pierre, introduce yourself. So you do your 32nd elevator pitch like you just did Lori. And you shake hands? I don't know if you would still do that right now. But you would ask each other say, hey, good, what are what do you do? So your elevator pitch and then ask them? What are your What is your business? Biggest customers look like? And then what are your biggest suppliers look alike? And then you see if there's a fit, and that's it, you shake hands, you exchange business cards, and then you say, Well, do you think it's, it's would it be good for us to keep in touch, and then you can be honest, right? You can say, well, you know, whenever something comes to mind, I'll reach out or you can say I'd love to set something up for next week. Follow up and get into more details about a specific subject. Then you make a note of that and you move on you turn around and literally the next person, you stick out your hand and say, hi, Lori, or Hi, I'm Peter, what do you do, and then you repeat the whole cycle. Within an hour, I literally spoke to 40 people I know it's through my business cards, and had to start taking somebody else's business cards and make a lot of notes. But that was I was sweating, I was nervous I was everything was different than what I'd done. But obviously, after an hour, you're repeating your elevator pitch 30 or 40 times. Things start to click, and you get better at it, you get really, really great at it, actually. So I would encourage anybody, and everybody thinks about networking as difficult or as scary to really jump in headfirst. And you know, what, what, what's the worst thing that could happen?
Lori: Yeah, I mean, just like anything, the more you do it, the better you're going to get at it. And, and that's something Yeah, what's the worst that can happen? Just get over that hurdle of doing it. And then more times that at least in my personal experiences, once you get over the hurdle, I realized I had more stress and anxiety over the anticipation of doing it than it, you know, the actual doing of whatever it was that like, Oh, that was a lot easier than I've made it out to be.
So how do you stay in front of invest nurture, and network in the community that you're creating?
My favorite question is because this is, this is really why we build mobile, you can we can, we can stay in touch by me following you on LinkedIn. And if you are a genius at creating content, like you do every single day, then that would be easy. Because I would see and be reminded of your content every day that I, the moment I open up the pin, I'm not as good at that. So what I need is a personal CRM, a tool that where I keep can keep track of every contact that I made, and give that contact status. So there should always be a follow-up note to everybody that you meet. And that follow-up note can be checked in three months, check in six months, that follow-up note could be reached out next week to schedule a meeting, or the follow-up note could be in 10 days, send an article over because that's what we talked about. That follow-up note could be called five times today because we need to get a meeting on the books tomorrow. But there has to be a next step for everybody in your professional networking. sphere. So whenever you meet somebody, I believe that you need to have a good list and a good overview of who you still need to meet with. And then yeah, you qualify as tough as it may sound, but you have to qualify and see what is a good fit for me or not. And then either put that email address on a nurture track or stay on the top and stick to personal interactions.
Lori: Of that sounds like you have a very clear plan. But being laser-focused on who it is that you want to be building those relationships with is definitely important.
What advice would you offer the business professionals looking to grow their network?
I think When you look at a city like New York, New York City and I, unfortunately, that's, that's the only place that I really have in-depth experience. But if I would go to Eventbrite, or meet up, or any of these events, organizations, or tools online, I can find something on my specific topic almost every day to go to. So make time for it, and make an effort to once or twice a week, go for an hour to these networking events, and tried to find the people that you need to find if you also figure out and you went to one of these events, and that's not the right audience for you. And you know, be strict about it and scrap it and say, I'm not ever going to go there again, because that's not the people that my people, that's not the people that I'm looking for, it's not the industry that is a good fit for me. So yeah, through that you can get a long, long way. And I think the newest opportunity, of course, of course ahead of you, is online events. There are lots of those too, and some are better organized than others. But often during keynotes, there are separate tracks where you can reach out to people on the side, you can research them a little bit, do a Google a quick Google or look at a LinkedIn profile, and say, hey, we'd love to get to know you better learn more about your product, or how we can help. And the good thing is that everybody will be there for the same reason. So yeah, in real life events are here again, right, like going back, and, and I would love to chat to the fullest.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less or different with regard to your professional career?
I would probably buy a little bit more Bitcoin. But everything else, I must say that I've I often say that Mobilo is built on 1000 mistakes. And that's true. I have made so many mistakes. That but all of them kind of had they had their reason for everything. I do believe that everything happens for a reason good or bad. So I would say keep going. It'll be fine. Just maybe my a little bit more. A little bit more confidence I've had that I would have to explain to myself, you can be more confident. That's okay. But other than that, I believe that. Yeah, you make mistakes you learn from them. And if you don't make mistakes you haven't learned as much as you could. So go for it.
Connect with Pieter
Meet Scott
Scott is hired by millennial entrepreneurs to build and pass on wealth, because most feel stressed out by debt, confused about what to do with their money and don't trust banks or Wall Street just like he doesn't. So he helps millennial entrepreneurs recycle their dollars to either start or supercharge their investments. Bottom line, his clients, reverse engineer banks and the wealthy to do what they do rather than what they tell us to do. And learn how to make bank like a bank.
Why is debt such a huge problem in our society?
While a number of reasons, the system itself is designed to keep us in debt, the way the lending institutions work, the way that government regulators, you know, let them do crazy things that are in their favor, rather than the borrower. And even the get-out-of-debt industry plays a huge part. Because what these financial entertainers do is contribute to people feeling like they are broken like they are the problem. When really, that's not the case. The whole focus on getting out of debt contributes to people staying in debt. Because when you think about it, Lori, getting out of debt is working your way up to zero. Who wants to be at zero? To truly have a sound financial plan, we need to go way beyond zero. And we need to know not just how am I going to get to zero but how am I going to go above and beyond. What tools am I going to use to supercharge my plan and follow the right path to the right destination?
Lori: Yeah, wow. That's I mean, that's important. I agree with the mean, being at zero isn't exciting. I mean, it's a win to get dug out of the big hole that you're in. But I think the bigger picture, the real work comes in after you do that part.
What is the plan after getting to zero?
The way I like to illustrate that is if you picture the beginning of a marathon, Boston Marathon had 27,000 runners on one street. So you know, picture what a mess that is. If you're at the back of that pack, you've got a long way to run just to get to the starting line. And then you've got 26.2 more miles to go to get to the finish line. Well, financially speaking, getting out of debt is just reaching the starting line. That's not the finish line. You're already tired by the time you reach the starting line. Well, what is the finish line? Financially speaking, it's financial freedom, passive income, retirement, however, you think about it, however, you frame it. That's the finish line. And if we say youths spend all that energy and effort to get to the starting line, you're already tired. But then a race official sees you and says, Laurie, come over here. I saw how far you had to come just to get to the starting line. And that's not fair. What I'm going to do is drive you into the course and shorten that race. Wouldn't you appreciate it? If that's the opportunity that you had? What I do is help people to take that energy and effort that they expend to just reach the starting line, and then teleport into the course to shorten that race to passive income. Retirement financial freedom.
Lori: Interesting. It's an interesting analogy. Yeah. Okay, so let's, let's talk about that a bit.
What's the best way for someone to map out that financial future?
The best way is to reverse engineer what we know works. There are three main problems that people have when it comes to managing their money. The first is trial and error, they just guess. And that is a financial agnostic, they try a little of this, a little of that sample a little over here, and hope they stumble across a solution around something that helps them to feel good. The second is listening to their broke friends, even though they know they've got no idea what they're doing with their money. That's a financial atheist. They figure there is no such thing as financial truth. Therefore, I'm going to just stick with what I can see touch, and feel around me and focus on that. The third is listening to one of those financial entertainers that yell at you that their way is the only way and everything else is dumb. That's a financial cult that follow the leader, regardless of what they say, or what is the basis of what they say. The problem with each of those three mistakes Laurie is they violate history and science. History shows us that banks and the wealthy have got it figured out. They have blazed that trail. And they left breadcrumbs along the way so that scientifically, we can reverse engineer that path. So that route takes away the guesswork. The listening to your broke friends, and listening to the financial entertainers yell at you to cut up your credit cards, work three jobs and live on rice and beans. We instead follow the path that is established that we know works because that's what the experts do. How can we copy what the experts do?
So can you give an example of how this has worked for some of your clients?
Yeah, I'd be glad to. It makes me think of one couple they combined income is about $7,000 a month, not rich people, but by looking holistically at their expenditures. And where can I help them to reallocate money that may not be spent wisely into the right direction using the right tools? Then being able to use those tools to accelerate the get out of debt process and get investing supercharge their investing from that point on. What I was able to do for them is take them to a place where over 30 years, the period that it was going to take for them to pay off their mortgage and their other debts. They took out new mortgage. Accelerate that to were in a little less than eight years, they were going to be completely out of debt. And then using that money to focus on retirement was able to save them over $800,000 over those 30 years. So Now instead of being instead of retirement being a mystery to them, will I ever be able to do it? Will I ever be able, to afford it? It took a lot of that stress off of their shoulders and helped them to see how they are able to retire, how are they going to be able to put their kids through college, and be able to leverage those efforts that they were using to get to the starting line? And have that shortened their race to retirement? Yeah, I'd be glad to. It makes me think of one couple they combined income is about $7,000 a month, not rich people, but by looking holistically at their expenditures. And where can I help them to reallocate money that may not be spent wisely into the right direction using the right tools? Then being able to use those tools to accelerate the get out of debt process and get investing supercharge their investing from that point on. What I was able to do for them is take them to a place where over 30 years, the period that it was going to take for them to pay off their mortgage and their other debts. They took out new mortgage. Accelerate that to were in a little less than eight years, they were going to be completely out of debt. And then using that money to focus on retirement was able to save them over $800,000 over those 30 years. So Now instead of being instead of retirement being a mystery to them, will I ever be able to do it? Will I ever be able, to afford it? It took a lot of that stress off of their shoulders and helped them to see how they are able to retire, how are they going to be able to put their kids through college, and be able to leverage those efforts that they were using to get to the starting line? And have that shortened their race to retirement?
Lori: Yeah, no, I love that. I mean, that's basically what the trend is nowadays, right? Retire as early as possible. It seems like a lot of people are focusing on that.
Can you share your most successful or favorite networking experience that you’ve had?
Well, first of all, I love networking, it's one of its, for me, it's the most productive use of time because it's a multiplier. Instead of spending my time, you know, talking to one person at a time, if I can get in front of someone else's audience. Now I'm talking to many, this podcast being an example of that, you're kind enough to give me time to speak to many. And when we network with other people, that's, in effect, what we're doing. What I have learned over time, is you've got to network with an eye towards how can I help. Not how can I get help? How can I give rather than how can I receive because that, again, is a force multiplier? I remember going to Chamber of Commerce mixers and things like that many years ago and walking away thinking Oh, that wasn't a very good group. Because you know, maybe I collected a few business cards but didn't connect with anyone. So therefore the group is bad. But in time, and with some help in networking from people that knew what they were doing. I came to realize that was my problem, my fault. Because when you go to make connections rather than to solicit business when you go to make connections, you're playing the long game. But you're playing a productive game because then you make connections. And you're able to, again, I'm overusing this word, but you're able to multiply your efforts. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And especially since COVID, has changed the world, and so much networking has gone online. It's, it's great, that aspect of it, of course, wasn't a positive thing. But now, you know, I've got friends in other parts of the country and other parts of the world that I have shared audiences with. And it becomes even more of a multiplier. Just the other day, I was speaking with someone with a prospect. This was someone that scheduled a scheduled conversation with me, that I hadn't talked with before. And so of course, when that happens, you never know what you're gonna get. But it's like, Oh, I was referred to you by so and so by someone I didn't know. And, and basically, it was like, he was pre-sold from, from that he went to my YouTube content, and determined that, that I was someone he wanted to work with. And so basically, the conversation was, okay, how can we get started it? And so it served to accelerate the process because the getting to know you process basically didn't exist, you know, so and so told me that you were good and that I should talk to you. So, therefore, I went on social media and saw your videos. So then I drew my conclusion that I should talk to you. And so now, here I am. And so that it's a great use of time. It's a great use of resources, because now that acquaintance, the third party in that triangle, he brought value to me. So of course, my knee-jerk reaction is I want to bring value to him. And how can I help him to get in front of others that I know? And that just gains momentum? And it happens over and over again?
How do you stay in front of and best nurture your network or community?
I think you've got to be consistent. One, you've got to recognize you can't be everywhere. And that's a challenge for me. And it's become a challenge in the COVID world, where there are now so many opportunities online, to network with different groups of people. I've had to come to realize, okay, I can't go into every networking group. I can't form close relationships with all the people I meet. Rather than going a mile wide and an inch deep. I had to make the determination. Okay, let me focus on a core group of people so that I can drill down deeper. And that has helped me, it's helped me to have a better plan. You've got to plan your networking. What groups Am I truly going to become a valuable part of meaning I'm going to show up consistently? And I'm going to be determined to bring value consistently. In so in social media, also, if I'm going to join a group, am I going to spend some time there, post, comment on people's posts, or make posts myself, I'm not going to commit to the time to do so. Then that's outside that narrowed range of groups that I want to commit to. So I would say that networking is something where you want to commit. You want to truly give of yourself by being there regularly and adding value. And then as you drill down deeper and deeper in that group, that's really where the payoff is because then you've built relationships, not just made surface level acquaintances, but drill down to build relationships.
What advice would you offer the business professionals looking to grow their network?
Be open-minded, and have a plan. And in that plan at the top of that plan is to give first, be confident that you will get benefit from doing that, and be sincere with it, truly do give of yourself to the group. And that can mean just adding to the conversation. Or it can mean you know, rolling up your sleeves and doing a favor for somebody. But be open-minded to that. Trust that trust that process. And when you have that at the top of your plan, and you plan out your networking, please don't ever go to a networking event unprepared to concisely. Tell me what you do and what you're about. Get to that point quickly. And understand that the people you're connecting with there, you're not soliciting them as customers, you're looking to partner with them and collaborate with them to get in front of audiences.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less or differently with regard to your professional career?
Regarding my professional career, first of all, at that young age, I would have, I would have changed my academic path. I was a stats major through college, something that I don't use, I would have been a business major instead. And I would have been determined to do most of my education, most of my learning after graduation. When, when you stop learning at graduation, then you only know what all of those other graduates know. What distinguishes you is what you do after that. So I would have gone from the entrepreneurial world into the business world, much, much sooner. I was a corporate guy for about 30 years, out of school. And, yeah, I learned some things from that some valuable things, but professionally, it didn't feed me. And it didn't, you know, it didn't turn out to be the the path where my passion lies.
Connect with Scott
Meet Karley
Business Growth Accelerator & Brand Strategist Karley Cunningham takes businesses from overcrowded, competitive spaces into blue ocean territory where they can confidently stand out and thrive as brand leaders in their sector. Her international client base benefits from accelerated growth, profit and stability as her innovative Surefire Method provides them with a sure-fire strategy and toolkit that enables them to charge a premium, attract ideal clients, and outpace their competitors.
What is the strategy before the strategy? And how has it helped motivate business motivated business owners to accelerate their growth and success?
One of the questions we get a lot from business owners and leaders or a management team at the top is how do we align everyone and everything? And what they're essentially asking us is when they're delivering when anybody is coming into a touch point with their company, how are we ensuring that people are acting in alignment? And that they're making the right decisions? This is delivering the right customer experience? Or it could be a supplier experience? How are we strengthening those relationships and building our reputation with every touchpoint? And so the strategy before the strategy is a piece that we recognized about three years ago, that was saying, Well, how are we guiding everyone and to simplify? Sometimes when I say strategy, I know people's perception, their brain goes, “Oh, no, this gets complicated.” And this is what I tell people: to think about strategy as the overarching “how”. It's just how we go about doing everything. And so business owners and leaders are often feeling like they're walking around all the time telling people okay, don't forget that this is our purpose for existing. And don't forget that this is who we are. And this is how we need to show up. And if we look at the higher levels in management, each manager is in charge of the strategy for their departments. So when you've got marketing, doing one strategy and HR doing another strategy, and I know, for you in digital marketing, that's probably your worst nightmare, because all of a sudden, you've got two brand things going on. Yeah, yeah. Right. So we looked at, okay, how can we give them a simple strategy to align everyone and everything? And it's a simple set of questions. If you can empower your team with these questions, anybody at every level, then they'll start thinking about making purposeful and aligned decisions. And it's simply that if they're going to make a decision, consider or take an opportunity, make an innovation or take an action, they need to ask themselves: will we be acting in alignment and living our organizational purpose? If we do this thing, will we be acting in alignment and living our values or guiding principles? Will we be acting in alignment with our brand character and making people feel the way we want them to feel? And ultimately, if we're making this decision, is it going to move us closer to achieving our short mid term goal and inner vision?
What is the thing that you found most businesses are missing, that prevents them from filling their pipeline and closing the deals or bringing in new customers?
This was shocking to me when I went back and looked at our past client list because I like data, and I'm sure you'd like data. And I realized that 98% of the businesses that come to us to help them build their brands, help them get core clear communication, don't have a clear understanding of who their target audience profiles are, who their target audiences are. And I'm not just talking about clients, there's also some misses in there as well. But when I say, people will come to us with a persona, a slight description, but we need to go really deep, understanding the problems that we solve for our ideal clients, understanding their mindset, and what they believe and what their worldview is. And often the other misses are, yeah, we all have clients, but we all have strategic partners. And we all have suppliers. And so, because the brand is holistic, and it's your reputation, we need to ensure that we know what all of them want and need from us. And so the thing they're missing is deep and clear profiles, so that everybody knows how to speak with the people they're talking to.
Lori: Yes, you are speaking my language right now. And this is something that I spend a lot of time with our customers and our clients with, and just in my general education, and messaging overall is, if you're trying to be everything to everybody, you're going to end up being nothing to nobody. You have to get very, very clear and super laser focused on who it is that you're trying to capture the attention of. Because once you get that clarity, it's so easy to lash out and say it's so easy, it makes it a lot easier to craft the message that is going to resonate with that specific individual audience group, whatever.
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think the other thing is, companies will often go to let's define what we do, especially if they're making a pivot or a shift before getting clear on okay, if we're going to make this pivot or shift in our in our business, because I know a lot of us have been doing that over the last two years. Thanks, pandemic. But if we're going to make this shift, do we need to consider a new audience? Do we need to go back and revisit? Are we still serving the same clients? Have they changed? Has their worldview changed? Have their problems changed? So we can't really define what it is that we do or what business shift we should be making? Before we understand what problems we're solving?
Lori: Yep. Yep. I agree 100%. With that, it's focusing on the problem. And the audience are the two most important things that I preached that I would agree with you 100% are the biggest areas that a lot of businesses forget to put any attention on. At the end of the day, I mean, it's a lot. I hear a lot of people preaching the features, as opposed to how's the solving my problem?
Features and benefits. I came up through this in this industry in software and tech. I was working with Rim before anybody ever knew what a Blackberry was – now I'm really dating myself. But yeah, and that's all we used to put on the – you know, I don't know if you remember those days or where you're at, but we used to mock up the software box when the software was a CD ROM. And they were like we were always listing the benefits and the features. Yep. It's like no, tell me what this is going to help me achieve. What's the ROI? What is the emotional value gain that I am going to get as your customer? People shop on price, they buy on value. Tell me the value.
This is one of my favorite ones, especially when I go to marketing folks. tangling up my words here, especially when I'm on with a marketing podcast, is it's interesting when I say I'm a strategist and branding expert, people will go “Oh, so you're in marketing,” and I'm like, well, yes and no. If that's what helps them understand the context of the work that I do, sure. Great. And it gets me in conversation. That's fantastic. But ultimately, I believe the branding has split off from marketing. So it's kind of been, you know, developed by really smart marketing people back in the madmen ad agency days, they were putting personas around products. And so often brands are thought about products and the way big companies, Coca Cola, Pepsi, you know, insert big company – Johnson and Johnson – is they talk about their brands, you know, Kleenex is the name for tissues, right? So we're talking about big brands. But when it comes to small to midsize businesses, if we're talking anywhere from, you know, micro, and micro business run by entrepreneurs all the way up to I would say 25, even 30 million. We're often talking now about companies, what is the brand of your company, and so we're no longer branding products, we're branding people. And so I know I've gone off on a bit of a road here, but let's tie it back to branding is no longer just a marketing action. If you're branding the products, great. It's a marketing action, it's a marketing tactic. But branding a company, and when you're talking about people, it no longer serves us to have the marketing person tell everybody else in the company who we're going to be and how we're going to be because no business leader who is driving their company forward really wants to be told who they are and what they're going to do. So the brand moves up. So the paradigm shift is, think about branding as a strategic activity. And think about your brand as your reputation times your exposure. So that if you're leading by example, if you're demonstrating your values, if you're clear on your value proposition, if you're clear on your purpose for existing beyond making money, and you're constantly exposing your people to this, it's almost like putting a watercolor in the center of the company. if we imagine the divisions all surrounding them, and you the more you execute on those actions and share that wisdom of the company, this is who we are, this is how we operate. This is our way of being and doing. Because we want people to say this about us, the more action you take, the watercolor starts to spread out and people lead by example. So branding, as much as marketing can be responsible for building the brand, to your audiences and to your existing clients. Imagine if everybody in the company was in alignment, and talking about the company in the same way and acting in the same way. That watercolor just that color just bleeds out into everybody at touches. So the paradigm shift is to take brand and branding activities, and put them in the leadership house and lead by example.
Can you share your most successful or favorite networking experience that you've had?
This is absolutely one of my favorite topics. I'm a raging extrovert so I can't wait – I know the US has been open for a while so I can't and we're in Canada, we're a little more hesitant. You know, we're a little more conservative than all y'all down there – But I cannot wait to get back in person. And meeting with folks and I know some people are just like, No, no, I want to stay in my cocoon. So hopefully what I'm going to share is going to resonate with some of our introverted friends as well. But my favorite networking experience was one that I had really early on, as I was building my first business, I'd moved across Canada, I'd been working freelance and I thought I'm gonna stay here. I'm gonna set down roots, I'm gonna build a business. And so learning to network was key and critical, too, because I didn't know a lot of folks out here. I knew the folks that I mountain bike with, and some of their friends, but I was like, wow, okay, now how do I connect with people in the business world? And the event I went to was a learn to network event, there was one really amazing piece of gold that the presenter taught us. And it was this: treat every business card like you would a $100 bill. And how I turned that lesson into success still helps my current business almost 20 years later. And so I'll tell you a little bit of that I'll follow the line of the story. So at one event, after that event, I started keeping all the business cards that I had, and also marking them as to which people I wanted to stay in contact with. I met this gentleman named Ray Williams, and I kept his card. And he's really impressive. And I just, I really valued how he interacted with people at networking events. He was warm, he was welcoming. He was always asking, “How can I help you?” And it turns out that he became my business coach. And so the value just from that was he helped me grow and overcome my self-limiting beliefs. But one of the other things that he did, and still does, we're just serving a client he referred to us to about a month ago, just started working with them is that he has referred me to business ever since. And so I did some quick calculations for this interview, knowing this question was coming. And in the safe 15 years that he's been sending us referrals, I would say that he's sent us over $120,000 in business. But that's not it. There's a compound piece of this, one of the clients he referred us to, has become a close strategic partner. They've become our wealth advisor. And they are also one of our top referring partners, and they've sent over $130,000 in business our way. So if you calculate that hanging on to that one $100 card, it's turned into over a quarter million dollars for the businesses that I've read.
Lori: I love that. I love that you broke it down that granular to get to the ROI of the business card out. That's fascinating. What a great story. That is, and I've never heard that concept to have. Treat every business card you receive. Like it's $100. Bill, it's a really interesting way to look at that. But also, what's interesting, with the world of COVID is, you know, do we have business cards anymore? Is it necessary? I mean, it's easy to connect with people on LinkedIn, get emails, you know, texting whatever, Slack. But I still find some value in it, because there's always those situations where it makes sense to still have the business card.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture your network or community?
So I'm a bit of a nerd. And like I said, I like data. And so I developed myself, a system based on tiny marketing actions. And it's funny because everybody always says to me, when they see how I track it, I track it in a day planner, it's a physical one, it's quite big. And I use tiny little stickers. And so the system is that for days of the week, I take time to execute five tiny, tiny marketing actions to keep connected to people in my network. So it could be sending an email and saying, Hey, Christy, how are you? We haven't talked in a while. Is there anything I can help you with? It might be sending Joe ”Hey, Joe, I saw this article and I thought of you.” It's just creating little touch points that are quick and easy to execute. It might be commenting on people's social media posts, engaging in a direct DM, Twitter, there's lots of different ways to do it. But understanding how the people in your network who are going to nurture your community and support your business, how do they best like to connect and communicate and so, every time I do five, I put a sticker in my book and I have a couple other actions like one is public exposure. So this would be an example on a podcast interview. And I track those by month. And it's funny, everybody goes, Karley, you know, there's an app for that. I'm like, well, here's the thing. I know what works and motivates me, and one having the physical book on my desk in the morning. So I can't avoid it. Because for me out of sight, out of mind, but if it's there, I'm like, sure I do it. If I don't do it first thing in the morning, I set it to the side of my desk, knowing that it needs to be off my desk before the end of the day. It’s not perfect, I don't always get to it. But that's why I go four days of the five day week. So I give myself a day off. And also the app for when my mom would pre-going-to-school, she would give me gold stars when I was a kid pre-kindergarten for doing things like learning to write my name or doing simple math or doing educational things. So I will work for a gold star, which is why I use the star. But yeah, it's a system. And it's great. And people know that that's how I stay top of mind. That's how I tell them in my community. I'm here to serve you. How can I help?
What advice would you offer the business professionals looking to grow their network?
Okay. Spending time wisely, and choosing the right watering holes where the ideal people are that you want to connect with and be hanging out with? And where are they investing their time? Go invest your time with them and show up in the same spaces as them, 100%. There may be some folks who maybe aren't building a business or driving a business, they listen to this for the networking tips. They might be in a company at a level where they're like, “Hey, I don't have to do business development.” But think about if the pandemic or future events were to affect your company, and you're gonna get laid off, who's the community around you that's going to help you find a job? Who are the other people? Do you need to be connecting with people in your industry? Maybe you're going to different conferences where you're learning skills, or you're upskilling? Or you're looking to shift industries, knowing who you need to connect with and making intentions to get to those watering holes, which means where are those folks hanging out? is super smart.
If you could go back to your 20 year old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
If I think about when I was first building the business, it would be follow up, follow up follow up. And what I mean by that is, you know, we talked about the five tiny marketing actions. I didn't start doing that until about five years ago. But the following up is if someone hands you their business card or they use the LinkedIn connection app or they reach out to you on LinkedIn, don't just connect with them. By hitting click, really connect with them, start a dialogue with them and then continue to follow up with them from a sales perspective. And you might know the stats more than I do. But I last remembered when people do remember anything, it takes seven touches to make a sale these days. I know the number used to be seven. And you might know from digital marketing, like how many times you have to touch someone before they will consider you or remember you or purchase from you depending upon what you're selling. So people are busy, continue to touch them in ways that create value. And here's the other thing I've had people say to me, even when I'm like this one too many emails is this one too many check ins is this one too many, you know, leaving a voice message to say, hey, just checking in on that proposal we delivered. Let me know how it's going, we need to change it. Often they will say to me, thank you so much for following up because I was so busy. And I had my head down. And you were on my list. But you just did the work for me, and here we are.
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Meet Tim
Tim Ash is an acknowledged authority on evolutionary psychology and digital marketing. He is a sought-after international keynote speaker, and the bestselling author of Unleash Your Primal Brain and Landing Page Optimization. Tim has been mentioned by Forbes as a Top-10 Online Marketing Expert, and by Entrepreneur Magazine as an Online Marketing Influencer To Watch. He is a former digital agency head, international keynote speaker, and marketing consultant to top companies.
How does evolutionary psychology help us to understand our social natures?
Well, our brains evolved for a reason. And we share things with the earliest forms of life on Earth, like insects and more primitive or let's say, more ancient forms of life. And then, as we evolved, we layered on different things so that at the very end of our evolution, we gotten some really, really bizarre to species level stuff that makes us unique. In fact, I'd say that's why we took over the whole planet. And so understanding that evolutionary path, and some of the things that we inherited along the way, helps us to understand how to be in relationships with each other, whether that's in business, or in personal relationships.
Why is storytelling important? And, more importantly, how does it work?
I like to go back to first principles and evolution to define all this stuff. And so I like to ask the question, why is storytelling even something we do? Why do we have language? Why do we tell stories? And we're highly cultural creatures, we'll probably talk about that in more depth as well. But one of the things that we can do is learn from each other. So you know that you can learn from your own mistakes or other people's mistakes. And by being able to learn from other people's mistakes, we avoid danger, we increase our chances of survival. So if I said, hey, Lori, if you keep going down that forest path, and around the bend, you're gonna run into a really angry mama bear and it's gonna tear you to shreds. I got the scars to prove it right here. I'm still bleeding from the encounter with the bear. Right? That's probably useful information to you. Can we agree on that? Absolutely. So basically, what I did just saved us the danger, or the time investment, and the uncertainty of dealing with that situation by telling you about it. So what I did is I kind of transferred my experiences into your head. I don't know if you've ever watched the old Star Trek show. They had Mr. Spock, he was a very logical Vulcan and he could do this Vulcan mind meld where he'd put his hands on your skull and transfer his experiences directly into your head. And it seems so far-fetched, but that's essentially what stories do. They've shown on brain scans that if a teller is telling a story with a very slight delay, the recipient on the other end is activating the same parts of the brain. So you're really doing a kind of a mind meld and transferring your experiences into someone else by telling a story, a very powerful way to help you survive.
Lori: I love that. Your focus sounded like it was heavy on the education side of things, but also storytelling, from my perspective. And just the way that people connect is and want to be part of a conversation or pull more information is not only education, but also entertainment. I think it's a combination of the two.
Well, again, from an evolutionary standpoint, I don't think entertainment is a goal. But I'd say that entertainment helps the medicine go down. So if I'm telling you an experience, I might choose to be funny about it and then that makes you more engaged with it, which forms a stronger memory of my story. So absolutely, that's important. One other thing too, that's super important, is knowing that the morals that people get from the same story are going to be very different based on our experiences and our cultural beliefs. That depends on which tribe we're in. So the same objective reality will land very differently when I tell that story to different audiences. I'll use this example from the book. Imagine this objective reality which I can film with my cell phone and record a video of a matador. He stood in the center of the bull ring and the bull charged at him, he definitely sidestepped and plunged his sword between the bulls shoulder blades, striking its heart and killing it instantly. Okay, now that's something in objective reality, I can video record that. Now, let's think about potential audiences. For this, if I was telling this story to someone in Spain that liked bullfighting, the themes or the morals they get out of it would be along the lines of "okay, it's about man versus nature. It's about discipline and being an impeccable warrior. It's about tradition, all of these generally positive things. And if I told it to someone from PETA People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, they would think, well, this is cruelty and animal torture, and then followed by animal murder, and people are subsidizing the watching of this by paying money. And that should be stopped immediately. So the morals of the story are going to be different depending on your audience. And it's really, really important to understand who you're talking to.
Why do we form into tribes and groups?
Well, yeah, I mean, that's kind of a great follow on that. I was just describing two different tribes: bullfight lovers and PETA, right, those are two different tribes. And you can make a lot of assumptions about how they would respond to a story like that just by knowing they're members of those groups. The reason that we form into tribes from an evolutionary perspective is that we're weaker individually. So there are some animals that can survive on their own very well, alligators, sharks, mostly things that lay eggs. But when you start moving into mammals, where we might be weaker individually, but we have the protection of the herd, and we congregate we feel bad when we're cut out of the herd or alone, and so on, that's just part of our mammalian inheritance. But with humans, the whole last part of my book – the last several chapters – is called Hypersocial. We depend on each other to an incredible degree. And we placed one big, evolutionary bet on learning the cultural package around us from other people. That's what helps us survive. We live decades beyond our reproductive years, because we're transmitting culture to the younger generation, and things that are of value. So we're the only animals that live a couple of decades beyond our reproductive years. So we're definitely an outlier there. And all of that cultural transmission helps us to survive. And we can only learn that from our immediate tribe. So the tendency to cluster into tribes to pass on information in a way that's unaltered. In other words, if you're not a good team player, we're gonna kick you out of the tribe. So you have to be willing to pair it with information that the tribe is transmitting to other people without changing it even if it overrides your own direct experience. So your eyes are telling you one thing, but your cultural package is telling you something else, you better be passing on the cultural package, because overall group survival makes it so much easier for us individually that we're willing to override our own direct experience.
What’s one of the most successful networking experiences you’ve had?
Yeah, and again, I want to take this back to our psychology and why we do all of this. That turns out, you know, what we think of as the rational part of the brain, as opposed to the primal part, is there mainly to model and update our social relationships in real time. So for example, like, oh, Lori, I went on your podcast. And you might know this other person who's running this other podcast I want to get on their podcast. But I also know their sister in law, and we don't agree on political views, and she's not friends with you, okay, or something like that, right? The model of all of that social complexity is what our brains are really for. And so anytime we're not doing some kind of computational task, like, What's four plus 17, we instantly within a fraction of a second go back to modeling our social world. We do that when we sleep, we do that when we're awake. And having an updated model of our social standing in the tribe is a critical survival skill. So we're actually hyper-social. That's the last part of my book. The last several chapters are called that. So we network for a variety of reasons, including to improve our social alliances, they get access to certain kinds of resources to feel safety inside of our group or our herd, if you will. It's a very important mechanism.
Regardless of the size of one's network, or tribe, how do you stay in front of and best nurture these relationships?
Well, let's talk about different kinds of social relationships. Because a famous sociologist Robin Dunbar has said, the size of our brains is so big because we have the largest social group sizes. But what does that mean in practice? We can have close ties with between 100 to 200 people. I mean, I know what movies you like, “I'll invite you over for dinner” level of knowing someone. You'll help me move my furniture if I'm moving houses, okay, so hundreds of 200 people that we know, personally, and we know a lot about him, anything else beyond that as an acquaintance? And so it's really important that we have these kinds of strong ties and we have weak ties, people you meet in a networking setting are going to be most likely weak ties. So we automatically prioritize strong relationships. And we try to maintain a few networking relationships, sometimes we'll swap out these people in our inner circle for new ones. But over time, I'm sure you've spent less time with certain friends, and then you've gotten some new friends. Right? Well, that's a slow process. And that's not to be confused with social media, because I'm not kidding, I have 15, or 17,000, whatever it is LinkedIn connections. Doesn't mean I know them all. They probably connected to me when I keynoted at some giant conference, I was on stage, they were one of 1000s of people in the audience. They're not like my bestie. So be clear about whether someone's in your small tribe or your acquaintance tribe.
Lori: Yeah, I think that's a good way to position it. And then, and then as far as managing and fostering those relationships, you probably want to invest more time in those that are in your smaller tribe.
Yeah. And the rest if through social media, you can amplify you're essentially broadcasting one way, yeah, those people can like or comment, and you might respond to a few comments and have some intermediate relationships, but they're probably never people you've broken bread with or met in person. By the way, there's no there is nothing that can substitute for personal connections, in-person connections. Yeah, no, I know, a lot of us suffer from mental health issues I know my teens have during the pandemic, and nothing can replace face to face contact, shaking hands, all of that.
What advice would you offer the business professional who's really looking to grow their network or their tribe?
One of the most important things is you can't have the megaphone, you can't really shout loud enough to be heard over all the other noise out there. The brands, like Sony or Apple, or Disney or Coca Cola took hundreds of millions of dollars in decades to build. And I'm saying you're your personal brand equivalent of that. If you just try to be omnipresent, I think that's a mistake. A lot of people stretched themselves too thin. They're on every social platform, and they're active everywhere. And what they really are is a mile wide and an inch deep. So you're not really building durable connections. So what I'm a big fan of is having a really, really clear editorial voice; like, if I asked you three adjectives to describe your personal brand, most people couldn't come up with that. So what you can do is use that editorial or brand voice to attract people to you. You're saying, here's my crusade, here's what I'm passionate about. If you're in my tribe, come join me! And you want a pull effect like a magnet instead of a bullhorn. And so with that, but most people don't have a clear voice. So I'm just gonna take a stab at that: say, I'm on this podcast, I want you to know that I'm passionate, and I'm funny, and I'm direct. And so every communication coming out of your mouth, or in your emails, or on your social media posts, better embody all three of those. So you say, Oh, look, it's Lori. She's passionate, direct and funny. The point is, everything coming out of your mouth or your keyboard should have that very strong editorial tone. And that's one of the cheapest kinds of leverage you can get in networking.
If you could go back to your 20 year old self, what would you tell yourself to do more of, less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
Well, I would probably start focusing more on, I would say, foundational stuff. So the one advice I'd give my 20 year old self is get seven to nine hours of consistent sleep on a regular basis. Don't cheat yourself, actually don't do social media and flip through your phone just before you go to bed, have a phone-free evening, or at least the last half hour is coasting down into sleep and getting regular sleep as daily life support. I have a whole chapter on the evolutionary reasons for it in the book, but I think that's my number one self help tip for anybody.
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Meet Tiffany
Tiffany is a mother of three, wife, content creator, forever sunkissed & CMO (Chief Marketing + Customer Officer) at Wantable. She has over 15 years of experience in marketing and retail. Prior to taking on her role at Wantable, Tiffany was the Vice President of Marketing for a large multi-billion dollar retailer before the age of 30. In addition, she’s had the opportunity to consult for Fortune 500 companies, helped lead several major retailers, and mentor teams across the country.
What's your vision for Wantable as a brand? How does that align with your personal brand?
Yeah, I was fortunate to get in, in managing and leading a number of teams at Wantable, about four years ago, we've definitely evolved in a brand and my perspective on branding is that it is a living, breathing thing that you consistently work on and evolve and elevate based on your customers because they're dynamic, and so forth. So where we are today is that we're here really to fuel self confidence in our customers. I've said this in many other spaces in many other conversations, but clothing and what you wear and what you put on is a material thing, but it's really the value that we create and how it makes you feel, finding the right fit, making sure that you feel confident and taking whatever it is in the world that you have to do that day, whether it's just running to the grocery store, doing chores, or, you know, going into the office and going into a big meeting. So how you look is how you feel on putting their confidence back in women's lives so that they feel ready to take on the day is something that we get behind and is our mission and brand purpose. How does that align with my personal brand? Well, I've always believed in confidence, you kind of have to look the part you have to like, walk the talk. I'm so bad with analogies but so I think that how it aligns with me is I am always looking to lift up others. It's why on the side, I started to get into some things on a personal level. That around life coaching and career coaching. So giving people confidence, that validation, just to make changes and feel good about what they're doing is something that I personally believe in as well.
Can you tell me how you approach building a successful team and good culture?
Yeah, I think this is probably a good spot to explain a little bit about Wantable. And why the unique business model that Wantable has has helped me build into some teams and get experiences that I've never had before. Wantable is I always say a cross between retail and relationship banking or insurance companies. It's really a relationship brand. We are a subscription try-before-you-buy retailer. So that is really different from my past retail experience where it's just kind of direct to consumer purchase online or purchase in a store. For that reason. We've got a service model and we have an E-commerce model. So as far as building teams, the cool part about what I've learned at Wantable, and what I've been able to take on as an executive there is building out teams from customer service to personal stylist to photo and creative and marketing. And also to some extent helping build out our engineering team and at times our merchandising team. So what I've learned, I guess, is that whatever the discipline is, there's always different types of people that you work with. Sometimes people are focused in a specialty or a specific area, and they really want to become a subject matter expert. And some people are really great at people management. What I found is that people earlier on in their career, or sometimes even mid career, feel like growth comes just from moving up. And it's like, oh, if I want to grow, I need to manage people, or I need to take on this leadership role. And then isn't what career growth always looks like, becoming a subject matter expert, and the best in a space can be just as rewarding and just as important and valuable to accompany as someone who's leading a team of 100 people. So really, I guess, you know, one of us in the business of personalizing, it aligns with how I personalize career development plans for my teams or anybody that I mentor, there really is identifying what's going on with an individual, what makes them passionate, what they get excited about to do everyday, and so forth. So that personalized approach, I think, helps get people to where they need to be when they're in a space, that they're confident, they love what they're doing. They're definitely more productive, the quality of work shows, and they get a little bit less of that, like emotional fatigue you have when you're trying to tackle things that are a little out of your comfort zone.
What advice would you give to women who are early in their careers and family life and are looking to, you know, make big strides?
Well, first, you're never gonna feel like it's balanced. So I'm sorry to say, there will never be a point where it's like, oh, my gosh, everything is perfectly falling into place, there's good, there's definitely going to be good days where you're like, Okay, I've got it. I'm like on point, I'm nailing it. I feel like I conquered the world today. And those days are amazing. But I feel like there's I kind of describe it a little bit like a pendulum, there are times in your life where you're going to be just pulled by the force of the universe, or like pulling you towards spending time with your family and really focusing on your kids. And my best advice is, when that is happening, go with it, don't fight it, you might feel guilty about work or your career. But you need to do that in order to unlock some things. On the career side, there are other times where that pendulum is gonna swing and you might need to put in more time or you may be pulled more to that adult interaction, the career, all the things that you know, that make you excited about your role or your profession or what have you. And again, same thing, there's always going to be the mom guilt, there will always be times when you're thinking I should be over here when I'm there. But I think not fighting it is one thing. But also finding creative outlets that content creation is something I'm passionate about, it may not necessarily be tied to the most important things that I need to do in my role as an executive. But when I'm home and I'm looking for, you know, something to energize me, that's something that I find exciting, and it's fun, and it's a creative outlet. I also find that based on some of the things that I can do, I can help out small businesses that are nonprofit and my kids’ school and the activities and clubs that they're in. So I do believe in kind of using some of those superpowers that you have as an individual to give back. And that's rewarding and fulfilling. So I think you can kind of get it all and you can have it all. You don't have to pick your kids. You don't have to pick your career. You can do it all if that's what you wish. But you definitely have to be open-minded and goal-oriented with whatever it is. If you're gonna say “I'm gonna be home for dinner every day and have a discussion with my children at the dinner table”, you have to commit to it just like you commit to going to a big meeting. So I think that's the best advice that I would give and then early on, just have grace. I mean, I hopefully you'll find it for anyone in that space. Like you'll find an employer that is open, you have leadership that's open and give grace to those things that come up. Kids' illnesses, being at soccer games, being at you know, whatever type of sports activity your children are in, and I think making sure you find an employer that aligns with that with those types of values is also super key.
On the theme of confidence, like I was talking about at the beginning, I mean, how many times have you been asked by maybe your boss or somebody important in a company, “have you seen my email?” and you kind of fake it and you feel guilty admitting you didn't. And I think that you know, especially with coming out of the 2010s, and how everything has changed, you've got chats, you've got emails, you have texts, you've got calls, you've got video calls and chats within the video calls. I mean, my gosh, being bombarded with so many things, so much more digital communication. And I think at one point, I was just like, You know what, I didn't see it, and it's okay. I am sorry, I didn't see that we're communicating and five different other chats and other places, or texts, or whatever the case is. And you have to be comfortable just saying, I am doing everything I can. I am enough. And yeah, like you said, it's just giving yourself grace and in that you're human, and there's only so much attention and bandwidth you have in a day.
Could you share one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
You know, I have to say, it's a little thing, a lot of people are probably expecting me to say this, like, some conference or this women's group I got involved in or, you know, just something really structured. And to be honest, I think that my philosophy on career growth kind of filters into this. It's all about initiative. And it really isn't a really big thing. It's a combination of a bunch of little things. So one thing that I did when I started Wantable and I have continued to do in the last four years I didn't do this is much in some of the other organizations that I worked in, which is you know, now looking back a little bit of a missed opportunity is just talking to people that you don't normally talk to so setting up a 15 minute touch base just saying like, Hi, how's it going? What's going on in your world? It could even be sending a note so I purchased from I forgot what paper store was this? I'm such a stationery junkie, I purchased this box of cards and it's like “send a card each week to someone that you haven't connected with”. It could be a family member, relative, coworker, past coworker. And so it's like little things like that have opened up these amazing conversations and new connections or revived connections that I just haven't had. So I feel like a lot of the stigma is, and going to this event, I'm joining this organization, I'm committee chair for this XYZ. And to me, some of the most valuable networking is done, you know, one on one, where you're just vulnerably sharing, “hey, I'm struggling with this topic, have you ever gone through it personally or professionally”, and just really kind of being present in the moment with a focus point on one person, and that has a compounding effect over, you know, 52 cards sent over the course of a year, you know, even if it's just one coffee date per month that you schedule, that's 12 people 12 connections that you've got any year, and then year after year, that really builds.
I love that, I think that's a great, fun way to stay in front of people. And the handwritten note is so powerful too. And you spoke to this earlier on how just the digital connectivity is amazing, but overwhelming at the same time, and that you get a piece of mail, that's not a bill or someone actually took the time to write a nice message to you.
Yeah, I feel like in companies, at times, it feels like there's silos between teams, or “oh, I don't normally talk to that person. So it'd be so weird to talk to them for 30 minutes, they're gonna think I'm, you know, investigating what's going on in their space”, especially if you're at a more senior level. But sometimes you really do get more information from somebody who might be to, you know, skip levels, or two levels down or in a different team and someone who's kind of more boots-on-the-ground. There's so many different types of connections that I have really valued, and they have come from some of the most unexpected relationships too.
How do you stay in front of them to best nurture your network?
That’s one, admittedly, I am not always the greatest at. So I'll share where I think there's a good opportunity, not necessarily something I'm good at. It's something actually that I'm really focused on. For this year, for example, I am really bad with keeping up with LinkedIn messages. Again, just that like digital overload, there's messages coming in from every social channel imaginable. So I have a concerted effort to try to, you know, just engage a little bit more in some of those networks and just kind of watch messages coming in. I think that's helpful. Because, again, there's sometimes unexpected opportunities or connections that come through that channel. The other thing is really just, everything is about balance. Like we were saying in the beginning, making sure that you're intentional to schedule that time, because it is the first thing that you will put off and I've been there, I do that. So I'm speaking firsthand, it's the first thing that's gotta go. Like, when you have a really busy week or a big project, you kind of go into survival mode, and it's like, feed my kids, get them to where they need to go, feed myself after that workout, if that's even an option. And then everything else kind of goes to the wayside after the to-do list. So I think if you are disciplined and schedule, okay, I'm going to just take 20 minutes a week, 10 minutes a day, whatever your schedule allows for and just do those check-ins. I think that's probably the best way. It can feel daunting if you don't do it for four months, and then all of a sudden, you're trying to catch back up and then all of a sudden, you're lost in three hours of messaging.
If you could go back to your 20 year old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
Yeah. I would have told my 20 year old self to travel way more. Travel has a completely different lens when you're 20, single, with no children than when you're a consultant and you're in your 30s and you have children. The availability of the time to just extend a trip or get there early to explore different cities like that is the time so if you're in that space, 100% you need to be doing that. I would also say that, you know, in my 20s I feel like I was very career-focused, which was great, but I would also say make sure as you're working through all of the career things that you have goals and the side hustles, or whatever it is that you're striving for, make sure that you still carve time out to figure out who you are. I know a lot of people that I even coach and work with on my teams today, that you know, they're in their 30s. And they're like, I don't know who I am. And that's okay, we all go through that there are days where I don't know. But I think that I'm just taking that time to, like, take care of you and figure out what your passions and hobbies are. So that when you do have like crazy workloads, you have an outlet, connecting with friendships, so you have those long lasting friendships going into the next decades of your life, I think those are really important times where you're making some of your longest lasting friendships, you're building out some of the things that you're going to be doing for the rest of your life. So as much as you want to put everything into your career at that point, I think it's also really important to invest that much into taking care of yourself. And that includes exploring the world and traveling.
Oh, yeah, I have similar thoughts about that. I think. The more I explore, the more I realize there's more I want to explore. There's more I want to learn, there's more perspectives and experiences out there. And I can only imagine if I was when I was younger, if I was exploring to the depth that I want to be exploring now. Yeah, yeah, it's just the more experiences you have, the more perspective you have, the greater you appreciate other people's perspectives. And opinions, too.
I think that word perspectives is absolutely it, whether it's like you're traveling to a different country, and you get a different perspective on what we have, or you get a different perspective on other cultures, family values, and how that you know, that works. And you can, even in your own life and use some of those values that maybe you didn't have as clear of a sight into. So I think that cultural aspect, whether it's just in different ways, I mean, there's many cultures and cities, many cultures and businesses, many cultures, obviously, across the board or across the globe. So. So yeah, I think that perspective piece, like that's really, that's really key so that you can be grateful, and you can not just think about what you don't have or the things going wrong, that perspective just helps you have a little bit more of a positive outlook. And I've been doing a little bit of journaling lately, which is something I never did, up until recently. And it's just this five minute a day journal exercise. And I really do believe in that power of selective perception, you know, they say, if you're looking for this car, you're gonna see that car now. Yep, yep. If you're looking for the negatives, you will see the negatives everywhere. And the perspective piece is really helpful in gaining that gratefulness and positivity.
Creative solutions is what it's all about nowadays. How do you keep innovating to keep your business alive?
I told my team, like maybe it was two weeks ago. We work through just as a very data centric organization and test-and-react is kind of at the heart of anything we do, whether it's in merchandising or marketing or technology. When you're iterating, you're iterating on what worked. And sometimes now because of the dynamics of the labor market, or like you said, supply chain, like, you know, this is a time where, you know, you might normally operate in one to two deviations away from what works. Do we need to start trying something completely out of the box, a little bit more radical innovation? So if you were thinking like this is two deviations away from our norm, like, let's get to 10. Like, let's really do some creative thinking and do something a little bit more innovative. So we've been kind of operating with that mantra with a guardrail of “it must move the needle”. That's kind of one of the things: there are so many different things to try, and the dangerous space of innovation is you try a lot of things and you kind of end up at the same spot. So those are two things that we're using as kind of our North Star, if you will, through some of these times.
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Meet Bob
Bob is an experienced technology leader with 25 years in executive roles in cloud-based SaaS companies, including InterCall, West Corporation, FreeConferenceCall.com, and now Notiphy. Always taking a collaborative approach and being involved in all areas of the businesses, he endeavored to always improve decision-making with data. This led to starting Notiphy which tells you what your people did, where and when they did it, what data they collected, and how long they did it for.
With an aging workforce and hiring being an issue today especially in industries like manufacturing and warehouse/distribution, how can technology help?
Well, it's a great question. I've spent a lot of time really looking at, you know, all different areas of the labor force and work workflow, process management, and have had the opportunity to speak to so many people in manufacturing and other areas of the supply chain. And, and found, I mean, obviously, you know, there's been difficulty in hiring, especially now post-COVID. While we're sort of toward the tail end, but in this time period, it's been so hard for manufacturers to get frontline workers, and hiring young workers is, you know, to make it attractive, and manufacturing has been very difficult. And, you know, as you probably know, I mean, there's so many different factors that go into maintaining and hiring people, but you have to really show them that you've created an environment where people and technology are really balanced. And so they can see that they can safely and effectively perform their job and be, you know, and be a differentiator in the company. We know technology in general and the technology that we've developed can make workers more accountable, which by all studies is what they want. They can make them more efficient, productive and safer. And, you know, people have, you know, listened. We know that people have good days, people have bad days, you can't rely on them to remember everything, retain information on a stressful day, or execute the work without, you know, having information and the access to information at their fingertips. We don't need to replace paid people, but it really needs to enable them to be able to increase their performance and increase the company's performance. You know, additionally, technology, you know, helps maintain data that they didn't have before. So workers can, you know, input data into technology, transfer that data to other people. So as people leave, that data can be shared and not, it doesn't walk out the door as people are leaving the workforce.
Where can technology help companies and their people be more productive and efficient?
Well, you know, technology can really help tremendously. But people being more productive can really help the companies understand their data, so they can understand the labor efficiency, the actual labor, labor efficiency of their workforce, so they can continue to, you know, sort of move the ball forward and to what their expectations are. When you look at a lot of what happens on the floor of manufacturing or other areas of the supply chain, oftentimes, you know, you're gonna see a little chaos, right? I mean, you're gonna see people running around, you know, looking for paper, looking for manuals, waiting for somebody to answer a question to help. I mean, there have been some studies out there where people spend, you know, over five hours a week waiting for assistance, and, you know, two thirds of the time that can take, you know, a lot more time. I mean, as I sort of said before, I mean, technology can put that information, those videos that people might want to access, and those manuals at their fingertips, and really help them to, you know, to get that information while they're doing the job. It also can help with more on the job on the job training. And so gives them the ability to access that information while they're working. So it helps them be much more productive faster, it ramps them up faster, and providing them that data really, really can help you really onboard your talent much, much quicker.
Are the companies in these industries being successful at being data-driven?
Yeah, I mean, you can imagine in the world that we live in today, how important it is for companies to, you know, fully understand their data. And there are still a tremendous amount of technology that these companies are using, that don't doesn't give them all the data that they actually need. So I would say overall, it's definitely getting better. The bigger organizations, as I said, Have lots of systems. But still, many of those systems don't provide all the data that you know about, what about their people, what their people are doing, how long are there people taking on specific jobs or all the or all the tasks or processes related to those jobs? What happens in between? Did they have to access data or did they have to message out to somebody? I think some of the other issues that are hurting is that if you take in manufacturing, 90% of these companies in manufacturing are under 100 employees, and they're all having issues hiring, they're all busy, it's tough to get these decision makers to the table to hear a technology story. Especially when they have old technology or paper based systems, and in their mind right now with how busy they are, and how stressed they are, you know, it's good enough. So the biggest competition that we face is not so much the other technology companies, it's really stagnation and doing nothing. And so there's this perception out there that, you know, technology is expensive, has long deployment times, and it's difficult for employees to embrace. And we're really trying to change that, because that's not necessarily true and not true in all cases, and so getting technology that is much easier for people to use, and faster deployment and budget friendly is really important, especially for the smaller organizations if they want to get more data driven.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
Yeah, sure. I'd love to, I'd love to say it was, you know, everyone would love to say it involved maybe a famous person or something. But that's obviously not always the case. I mean, for me, probably the most important networking event of my life is, you know, I was at a networking event, I can't remember the exact event that it was, I remember where it was in Chicago. But I met a random person there, right. I mean, I was working, I was looking to make some changes in my career. And I met a random person there at the event who was in the telecom space, more like telecom and conferencing. But, you know, he, she knew a person, you know, somebody who was running a conferencing company, you know, about a $30 million company at that time, and they had, you know, started looking for someone with sort of an entrepreneurial spirit to start a separate brand for them, and they wanted somebody with no telecom experience, no preconceived notions in that space. And, you know, I met with the president, we had a really good meeting and things went well. And I ended up having a 20 year career there. And with, you know, not only a fantastic career, but met so many people, made a lot of friends, and just have great memories of that company. And the history of that company, as I started from a very low man there to one of the top executives of that company and had an opportunity to run a lot of other software and technology companies for that company, as we continue to grow and became the largest company in that space, when I left.
So how do you stay in front of, invest in, and nurture your network?
You know, it is tough, but it's so important. I mean, honestly, Lori, I'm such an advocate of networking. And, you know, I do it through, you know, through emails now a lot. I do it through LinkedIn a lot, now I will reach out to people that I haven't talked to in a while, and maybe I don't have their current email address, but they're in my LinkedIn network. So I spend a lot of time in my LinkedIn network looking at, you know, people and people inside there, you know, in even now with some of the marketing and some of the things that we do with my company, you know, we'll put out content and people will put out content, and I will like their content and comment on it. And I make sure that my content goes out to, you know, to my network and stuff. And so, you know, a lot of it is done through LinkedIn, and other means, but I really do allocate some time each-- I'd like to say each day, but I don't. But each week for sure, a number of hours each week. And I definitely reach out to people, especially over LinkedIn that maybe I haven't talked to in a while and just catching up with them. And so it's very important.
If you could go back to your 20 year old self, what would you tell yourself to do more of, less of, or differently with regards to your professional career?
Well, again, you're, you're talking a lot about networking. And, and you're and you just said that it's good that I am intentional. But I wasn't always that way. And when I was my 20 year old self, I wasn't that way. Especially in terms of networking, I would tell my 20 year old self to, you know, get off your butt and do it and make it much more of a priority. And I think that's one of the things, especially today, when the younger people are less-- again, back when I was 20, you had to go out and meet people, right? You couldn't sit behind a computer screen and do a lot of the networking online. And so I think that in-front networking is still so important. But networking in general, I just wish I would have done more of it back then. And that's what I would have told myself: to just make it much more of a priority than I did back then. And I've tried to tell all the younger people that I work with and my own kids, who are in their 20s and starting their jobs, to make it a priority. I've really tried to tell them to do as I say, not as I did, when I was here.
What's a final word or advice you'd offer our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
I think you and I just talked about it a little bit, right? I mean, it is realizing that people do want to help. So if you can convince yourself that that is true, and you realize that it's, you know, it's kind of like the, you know, the old Nike slogan, “just do it”, right? You have to do it. And, and I can't stress it enough how important it is, and the benefits that somebody could achieve from it. And so I listened, and I realized that, at least today, now, things are starting to change. And there's more live events starting to happen. But still, there are fewer live events than pre COVID. And, so certain things are going to be done digitally. And, you know, LinkedIn and certainly other platforms are very valuable tools to use. So use them, right? I mean, spend some time, allocate some time, whether it's put it in your calendar, 30 minutes a day, a certain number of hours each week, I mean, put it in your calendar to spend time nurturing your network on LinkedIn, looking at the people in your network, or other people's network that are that maybe they're connected to, that you might be able to tap into for advice, or introductions that are going to help you in your personal life or career.
Connect with Bob
Meet Bud
With nearly 40 years of sales, marketing, and management experience at multiple Fortune 500 companies, Bud started Ascend Performance, LLC, powered by Sales Xceleration, utilizing his experience to help small to medium-sized companies obtain optimal results. He also works in talent selection, assisting companies in finding the right person for the right seat using state-of-the-art assessments. These assessments can also be used to understand skill sets as a basis for training and self-development.
What is an outsourced VP of sales?
I think in my bio, you talked about that I was a sales professional. I was in business for 40 years. So before I tell you what I do, I'd like to tell you why I do it. And those 40 years was really a curse and a blessing. And I worked for those two Fortune 500 companies, great organizations, I took away much. But I found myself over that time period traveling a lot. And what happened was that I traveled 80% of the time across the country and even across the world. And this caused me to miss a lot of family events, birthdays, school events, etc. And although I lived in Brookfield at the time, for over 20 years, I wasn't really part of the community. In fact, I really didn't even know my neighbors. And I'm ashamed to say that. So about a year and a half ago, I decided to make a change. And what I want to do is take that experience, knowledge and skills that I gained, while being a part of those organizations, to smaller companies in my community. And in doing so I can spend more time with my three grandchildren, enjoy our cabin up in the north woods and make a difference in the lives of small business owners, many of which now today I call my friends. So what is an outsourced VP of sales? Well, what I do is I come in to small-to-medium-sized organizations and I place a sales infrastructure within them. And what that means: it's a sales strategy, a sales process. I introduce KPIs to help drive the right sales behaviors toward company goals. I write job descriptions for sales professionals. I work out incentive plans. I focus on an outbound sales strategy, and that's the cold calls, and the prospecting, and the seven steps to selling that I implement within the organization. So once they get sales and revenue up, and that's what it's all designed to do: to help small to medium sized owners grow revenue, then I can either exit the business by hiring a replacement, or help them hire a replacement. Or I can train one of the sales professionals that they have within their organization to take over, and then periodically monitor and make sure that they're on task. It's a great job, I love every minute of it. It helps me spend a lot more time at home. And it helps me really gain fulfillment and joy in my job. And it's, it's not the old grind that sometimes we all face in a career, it's something that I really enjoy doing. And you know, sometimes I like to tell a story about how I got into it, and what the difference is, and how it kind of all works together. So I was called by a gentleman by the name of Michael Patrick Cola, and Michael ran a small food company in Elizabeth, New Jersey. And if you've ever been to Elizabeth, it's the place that you don't want to go to at night. But I remember going into Michael's manufacturing facility, and it was about a $7 million organization at the time. And I was walking up these big steps. And I looked into the office, and he had the corner office on the second floor of the manufacturing company. And I looked in there, and Michael was 52 years old at the time, and he was an Irish, Italian. And he had red hair and had these big red cheeks. And I looked at him and he says, "I need some help." He says, "I spend 12-14 hours a day in this place, I've got to run the operation, I've got to run the supply chain, I've got to buy raw materials. And then I had two sales guys over there in another room. And I don't know what the heck they're doing." So he says, "We've been flat for the last couple of years. And I need some help." So then we went in, we looked at his process and put a good sales plan in place, really got those guys focused on the right behavior to drive sales that the organization needed, and really turn it around. And it was a great time. And I remember about a year and a half later, I was in town -- I have some other clients out that way on the East Coast. And I walked up those steps again. And it was about 4:30, it was the end of the day, I knew Michael would be available. And I walked up and I looked in the red was gone from his cheeks. And he had a big smile on his face. He said, "Bud, I've only got 10 minutes, I've got a date with my wife, and I'm taking her to dinner." And that was the end of his 14 hour days. So that's what really makes my job and my role fulfilling.
How did you get into more of the coaching and consulting space, then?
Well, an example within Michael's organization and other organizations that I'm a part of, a lot of times, sales managers really don't have the training. And I was privy to that for many, many years working with large companies; they're very good at training their staff and training me and I went through a lot of good things. So I learned very quickly in my roles as a consultant, a sales consultant, that when you work with people as a consultant, it's not the old command and control like you used to do when I was in the seat back in the day. So I would have to learn new skills to help them, convince them on the right behaviors to get things done. And I had a challenge with that. I didn't have that. I used to come out of my office and say this is what needs to be done today. And they'll go get it done. And that was the old style of management for many, many years. Today, you've got to be very empathetic and sympathetic to your personnel within the organization, you got to treat them very well. You got to retain them. So I didn't have that skillset. So I went back to school at 61 years old. I enrolled at University of Wisconsin-Madison certified coaching program. And I went through a nine-month program there and I learned a lot about me. And really to be an effective coach, you really have to know yourself first, before you're able to help others. And it was a great experience. And I use those skills each and every day and it ties in very nicely on the sales consultant side and putting those systems and processes in place and helping others understand that and then really being empathetic to their situation, helping them see the way, and then helping them become more successful.
What can the small business owner do to improve their revenue?
Well, that's what they all ask themselves. That's the biggest challenge, as you know, you work with the companies and clients that you have. And I think when I look at a small business owner, there's two big challenges that they face. And first of all, they really don't understand what the problem is. And you can't change what you don't know. But recognizing the problem is half the solution. And that's when they call me to come in. And when I do, they need to be in a position to really have the mindset of growth. They want to scale. And that's where the opportunity works. So I'd much rather work with an organization that has a growth mindset, and, most of all, operates with integrity. I think those are the two most important things that a small business owner can possess and be successful.
What's one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
Well, Lori, networking is something that I had to learn over the past couple of years. And when you work within a large company, you really don't have time to work within your community. And I had network with a lot of contacts across the country. But my goal was to work within Southeast Wisconsin and stay close to home. So what I had to do was really find a way to start developing referral partners, and understanding people that are complements to the work that I do. And that's how you and I met. And we had coffee together. And we talked about the important roles that you play the small businesses, and then how on the sales side -- and that's strictly all I do, I stay in that sales lane -- how I can complement your efforts, if we're working with a client, who I can see needs more inbound or lead generation, that's where an organization like yours can come in. So developing those networks, and it's not only with the marketing professionals like yourself, it's understanding people that are in the banking industry, and understanding all the complementary partners that work with small business owners and then getting to know that. And the other part of networking that I've learned is that you really need to develop a friendship with the people that you interact with. Because they're trusting you to make a difference with their client, if they refer you when and making sure that they know you will know the type of person that you are in the work that you do is critical. Or networking really doesn't come together like it should.
Regardless of the size of your network, it's really important to stay in touch and nurture those relationships. So how do you do that?
Well, within my organization and my company, Ascend Performance, I do have a newsletter, and I send that out to prospects, I send it out to clients. And I send it out to referral partners, which I call my network. And a lot of times, I'll change the message. And what I try to do, and I've learned this from smart marketers like you, is providing something that they can use. Something that's useful to them and interesting. It's not about me, it's about working with my referral partners, and my network partners and my clients and prospects and giving them something, a sales tip, or letting them take my sales assessment that I have, that I provide free of charge to a lot of people. And that's that really is how you begin to build trust and how they start to understand what you do and how you do it.
If you could go back to your 20 year old self, what would you tell yourself to do more of less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I was telling my 20 year old self, the first thing I would tell him is to listen to what your Trainer Tells you and how you prepare your workouts. So as I mentioned to you, and when I was doing my training for the triathlons, that's, that's hard on the body. And a lot of times we think we're Superman more than we are. So I would tell myself to listen to the trainer. And then the second thing I would really tell myself is to be patient, slow down, stay in the moment and enjoy life. So often, and I'm a good example of it, when you get into the corporate environment, and you get within an organization, you push, push, push, push, push, you let a lot of things go by. And I mentioned that too, I missed a lot of things with my family that I do regret. And I really didn't have to. I really didn't have to. So I would tell Bud at 20 years old, slow down, stay focused, do the job, but take care of others that are around you.
So I hear that you have a nice offering for our listeners. Want to talk about that?
I do. I do. I've got a great blog that I read a couple of times. And it's by Mark Thacker. And it's really designed for a small business owner. It's called Hope Realized: Finding the Path to Success. And I like to call it a love story, Lori, but it's more than that. It's about how a sales consultant came into an organization and address many of the challenges that today's small business owners are facing, and provided some really good guidelines and a path to success.
Connect with Bud
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/budmatthews/
Meet Dino
Antonopoulos Legal Group LLC represents closely held companies and financial institutions in corporate/business law, real estate law, civil litigation, commercial financing, estate planning, and probate matters. The number one goal of the firm is to help clients succeed and to protect them by continuing to be a difference-maker and game-changer in the legal world by applying our principles - honesty, hard work, loyalty, and a commitment to fight for our clients.
How do you minimize litigation risk when hiring from a competitor?
Yeah, so we see this, obviously, more and more. In today's world it's a little bit of a litigious world. But as we have our companies and companies out there that market and recruit various potential candidates and recruits, some of these recruits sometimes are under an employment agreement. Or it could be under various documents, such as handbooks or policies, commission agreements, and stock option agreements. And there are what we call restrictive covenants. So it could be a non-compete and non-disclosure of some sort. But these various restrictive covenants might limit the opportunity they have with that new company that they're going to be onboarding with. So as part of the interview process, you want to ask the potential recruit whether they have any restrictive covenants that they know of. But you got to dig a little bit deeper and say, "Okay, what have you signed? What have you received in your employment with your current employer?" And then ask those specific questions. Do they have an employment agreement? Do they have some sort of bonus plan, a commission agreement, a stock option agreement, or any sort of compensation agreement? The more that you dive into asking those specific questions the more it might trigger that recruiters say, "Oh, yeah, you know what, I did sign an employee handbook. Let me just take a look at that and see what that says." So you start there first. And then ultimately, if the recruit says no, and the interview goes, well, and you're ready to hire this recruit, then eventually you'd like to have that same sort of written confirmation from that recruit, which will be your employee, saying that no restrictive covenants exist. If one does exist, as that employer, that potential employer and you want to hire that individual, then you should get a copy of it to see what the restriction is to see whether it's enforceable or not. And that's where the legal starts to come in on that. So as we represent closely held companies, you know, we'll come across this issue all the time. And the ones that stay ahead of this are in the better position, where they'll contact us in this case, ask us to review this employment agreement or wherever these restrictive covenants are found and whether it's enforceable or not. And if we say yes, it is, then we kind of do a hard pass on that employee or we can always go back and negotiate some sort of buyout with or a resolution with that current employer as well. The ones that it becomes a little bit more pricey on and expensive and a little bit more of a headache or the ones that just kind of blindly hire the employee. And then a month or two down the line, you get a letter from a law firm saying that, hey, that employee was under some sort of restrictive covenant, and you're part of that right now and you're torturously interfering with that. And all of a sudden, we got a kind of a scramble and an issue with that. So there are the steps that we can take to minimize the risk, assess the risk, and then make a determination like anything in business. And as something that, you know, our key. Companies are really honing in on more and more today.
Is that a conversation you have early on in the interviewing process?
Yeah, I think if the interview is going well, for you, and you really feel like that's a strong candidate, a strong recruit, yeah, I would put that out there, whether it's in the first go-round that you're having a good feeling. And you want to ask maybe toward the end of that meeting, or as a follow-up, whether it's another phone call or a second or third interview, and ask there because that might determine ultimately whether you're going to put them in that category of making the next round or not.
What are some of the key terms from a seller and buyer's perspective when purchasing a commercial property?
Yeah, so here, I mean, depending on what side of the fence that we sit on, will be what, what we want as the terms when we're buying commercial real estate, and even residential real estate, and that's a whole nother animal right now. But when we're in the commercial world, we're selling, you know, we try to keep it simple. And we, most importantly, want our money as fast as possible. So we want to make sure, what's that purchase price look like? How are we getting that payment? And how fast can we get that payment? And that's all we care about from the selling end. But then we want to make sure that we reduce as much risk as possible from our end of it. So whether it's trying to limit it by selling the property and what a term is called "as is", so what you see is what you get, and we're not representing and warranting anything that is selling in, you can come in here, you can do your inspections from top to bottom. So from the roof down all the way to the bottom, you take a look at everything, and you get yourself comfortable with the property because I'm not going to tell you that there is something wrong or not. Because sometimes I have no idea. As a seller, I'm a business owner. I don't know of anything, but what we see today, again, in that litigious world, is that you always see a finger pointing if something goes wrong with a property down the line. All of a sudden, they're saying well, you didn't properly disclose this on what we call a condition report that's required as well. So we try to get all those waivers built-in from the sellers and minimize any sort of representations and warranties, try to minimize contingencies as much as possible, and put those in there if needed. So for example, if the buyer needs financing, you're gonna see maybe a financing contingency, like I have to get a loan in order to pull this off. And you ultimately negotiate those terms, but you try to reduce, again, that timeframe on how long they have. And you want to ultimately lock in a buyer, from a seller's perspective, and the way you lock them in, you say, okay, look, you're building all these contingencies, and you keep telling me like, I definitely want to buy this property. I'm all in on this, then you know, what we say is we'll put your money where your mouth is, I'll make some of that earnest money non-refundable. And the more you put down, you know, as far as non-refundable, then you know, you're getting them locked in more so on one occasion, as we had, you know, six-figure non-earnest money or non-refundable earnest money, we knew that that buyer wasn't walking over, you know, they weren't just gonna cut that check and then walk away on there. So the more you can do all of that stuff, the more you lock it in. Now, the flip side of it is on the buyers, and then we look at it, and I draft up a commercial offer to purchase or agreement. You know, I'm building as much as my client wants, the property I'm trying to build out because we don't know where it could go in a month from now. Whether Financing falls through the cracks or there is an issue with the property. I'm building as many outs as possible. So we're building various contingencies that will be subject to buying that property all the way through the title, making sure that there's a good title that nothing's mucked up, I know that there's, let's say, there are mortgage liens, but there are other items on the title that could come back to haunt us. You know, we're doing our due diligence on special assessments. And so we want to have this property in a position where we know the ins and outs of it. And if something goes sideways, then we're out. We want to be able to pull out our earnest money, just having it refundable. And then getting as many reps and warranties from the salary of saying, look, we want you to fill out this disclosure report, we want you to tell us as much as you can about the property, understanding that you may not know everything, but if you have something we want to know about it. And then we take a look at all that stuff. And you know, as long as the buyer says, okay, I'm comfortable with that, let's get to the next step. And we keep moving it. So kind of that's in a nutshell, as far as when you're buying and selling commercial property. Hopefully that was helpful.
Let's talk about estate plans. Why should people have them?
Multiple reasons. One, if you have children, whether they're minors or adults here, you want to set them up, whether it's appointing or nominating guardians to put various protections in place and how you want your estate to be distributed to your kids. There is a true cost saving to having upfront estate planning. Because you avoid the unintended consequences that if you don't set up an estate plan, you're going to be most likely in court in the probate court, under some sort of jurisdiction by the court here and subject to our state laws. And then it's smart to have that long-term care planning, whether it's the nursing home planning or some sort of residential base facility planning. So you take a look at that, and you try, even if you're younger, to put that plan in place because obviously, tomorrow's never promised. And so the more that you can strategize, you know, to put your estate plan in, to tie it in as a business owner with succession planning, it always goes hand in hand. So, for example, we had a client when last year, he, unfortunately, passed away unexpectedly. And he had a multitude of businesses and a multitude of ventures. But the problem was that it wasn't very clear and clean on how everything was laid out, and he didn't have an estate plan. What ends up happening then is we're in probate court now. And we've been stuck in this court for a year. You know, from me, selfishly like a business standpoint, that's good because we're having legal fees and costs from a client standpoint, which is what we care about first. While there, the estate's incurring all these legal fees and costs when for minimal legal fees, if we would have set up the estate plan earlier, and got all this stuff done, we wouldn't have all these headaches and the fees and the cost and the time that are incurred and all this stuff. So it's one of those items that I'm guilty of it as well, and everyone is guilty of it, that we write down on our to-do list estate planning, and then it kind of gets pushed to the bottom. Until, you know, it becomes at some point something triggers us to ultimately say okay, like we're moving this up the priority list right now. And that's when it usually is triggered. Now we can talk more if you want about what an estate plan kind of looks like in general, but it's up to you.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
Sure. You know, I'm a big believer in when you network, you network to build real relationships to have more organic, whether it starts as a friendship, and not as a sales pitch. So I'm just the opposite of "you go in a room and try to sell yourself" and all that. You try to go into a room and just be genuine and be yourself. One example would be that I was invited to a fairly large Christmas holiday event years ago, by a bank. Many lawyers in the room, many insurance representatives, and many accountants. So you have all these service industries that are all sitting in a room. And then you get some business owners there. And I think the business owners get attacked by all these attorneys and service providers as well. And, you know, I just take the opposite approach. And I'm in a room like that, because people have their guards up, and they don't want to be sold things. It's more of a social setting. And you just got to naturally do it, even in networking settings. I met a successful business owner, we just were talking whether it was about sports or life at the time, or kids and so forth. And it was just more of a natural way that ultimately led to us forming a relationship. They're forming a friendship and then eventually representing this individual in his company. So I liked that story, just briefly, because it shows it when you're in a room with a bunch of competitors, you stand out by just being yourself and not pushing the sales part of it, and you just try to be genuine to people and people see the authenticity. And you also see that if someone's just trying to sell a bag of goods, whether it's services or products.
How do you best nurture your network and community?
Well, truthfully, I feel like I've failed at that through the pandemic. I didn't do a good job. Partly, I mean, one of my kids had some health issues, so that kind of took us away. But you tried to reach out to your network, and remind yourself to set up, you know, whether it's a breakfast or a lunch or get together after work, whenever you find the time. As you said earlier, life is busy. So, you know, with four kids, on my end of it, I'm coaching a bunch of sports, so it's hard to get out to some of these networking events in the evenings as much as I want to. So you try to find time on a day-to-day to just reach out to people that you haven't talked to you in a while and stay in front of them. You know, I'm blessed that I've had, you know, some really good relationships that even though I may have fallen off a little bit during the pandemic, and focusing on some family stuff that people were still reaching out to me. And at the end of the year, I, you know, one thing that I do is I we send out Christmas cards from our office, and we typically will send out various gifts to our clients and our network and so forth as just a thank you for always being there for us.
What advice would you offer the business professionals looking to grow their network?
Be yourself, be genuine. Don't try to be somebody else. That's how you actually build that relationship when you look to try to help others out as well. So if you meet somebody that you hit it off with, see how you can help them in various ways. So if they're looking for an accountant, try to help them out with setting them up on the account. If they just have maybe some general questions out there, be there for them. And you'll be rewarded down the road as well. And here's what I have for selling or my services. You know, that doesn't go a long way. But if you try to help others out, whether it's that individual, or them ultimately then referring and saying, hey, Lori is a great person, like she's been helping me, we hit it off, she actually has been opening up doors to other people for me, I'm going to stuff or had a great referral for that encounter comes back to you.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more of, less of, or differently with regards to your professional career?
If I could go back, you know, 20-plus years now, I would take that whole LinkedIn a lot more seriously. And, you know, I'm a traditional networking, grassroots kind of guy. Handshake and meet people. And that's how I believe in networking, and so forth. And going back 20 years when LinkedIn was just starting to come through and all that stuff, they being ahead of that curve, and really getting that digital and social media marketing part of the aspect as well. Because that can open up doors to millions of people in different ways. So if I go back, I'd want to study that more and understand that. There were multiple books early on, as we were all just trying to figure out the process of how social and digital media and marketing and networking were taking over.
So any final words of advice for our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
All right, I'll repeat what I said earlier. Just be real, building relationships over time, cultivating those relationships one day at a time. Don't go in with a sales pitch, don't work, that it's all about the sales and, you know, the immediate, like, I gotta get this thing closed or services and people walk in the door because this just doesn't happen that way. I mean, on the rare occasion, maybe you just cross paths with somebody that might just happen to be looking for a digital marketing firm at that very moment. But most of the time, it's building that trust with an individual, letting them get to know who you really are, and what you're really about. You do that and you'll be rewarded.
Connect with Dino
Meet Steven
Steven Novick is the CEO & Founder of Farmstand. Farmstand cooks & delivers fresh, fast, healthy, and affordable meals to businesses and consumers that they personalize. Their website is www.EatFarmstand.com. Steven previously built 2 billion-dollar businesses & climbed seven summits (including Everest - the very top). Beating cancer made him passionate about food and the environment, and growing up working class made him appreciate affordability and convenience, which is why he started Farmstand.
With so many meal delivery services out there, how is Farmstand better?
Like you said, there's certainly a tremendous amount of meal delivery services out there. And how we distinguish ourselves is really in four ways: we're affordable, we're fast, we're healthy, and we're also zero waste. So we describe the Farmstand formula as: we're $7 a meal, five minutes to heat, zero added sugar in zero ways. So it's “seven, five, zero zero”. To add a little bit more to that, we think, ultimately, we're 10 times better than the competition. Firstly, as much as we do a direct-to-consumer service, and we deliver directly to homes, what makes us highly unique is that we have large contracts with Office caterers and large institutions. But what makes us 10 times better than the competition is we're fresh, versus frozen or a meal kit. So we're ready to eat. We're 50% less expensive. We're 90% faster to cook, and we have 100% personalization. And oh, by the way, we take up 90% less fridge space than a HelloFresh would.
You're not available in the US at the moment, correct?
Yeah, at the moment, we're just in the UK. We cover the UK nationwide. But a contract that we've signed with a food service provider called ISS and the UK's largest bank, Barclays, that contract, although it starts in the UK, is a subscription agreement (because we’re a subscription-only business) allows us to expand into Europe and the US. And so our hope is to be in the US starting on a B2B basis as early as the first quarter of 2023.
You've previously built two billion-dollar businesses. How have you done that and what's important to get right from the very beginning?
Yeah, so prior to starting Farmstand, I co-founded an investment firm that now manages about $2 billion invested in private companies. And then prior to that, I was head of business development at a health tech business that raised about $50 million in venture capital. We scaled to $20 million in revenue, and it filed for an IPO of $650 million valuation, which in today's dollar might be about a billion dollars, and then that business was acquired. So I think the fundamental thing is like, when we started Farmstand, I think that the foundation of everything is our values, behaviors, and ultimately what you stand for as a business. In any business you start or you join, I think you have to be very values-driven. And so for us at Farmstand, that's been a real big driver. And so one of our big values that we really centered around, especially in the environment we're in, is making sure that what we're doing has zero food waste, zero packaging waste. We're a B Corp certified business, just like Patagonia or Ben and Jerry's. So these are kind of some of the things that are really important. I think that if you don't have the right foundation when you start a business, you can't grow from that.
So it comes down to what you believe, that's going to help attract the type of people that align with your thinking and philosophy?
Yeah, I think that's right, and ultimately your customers are going to follow you and get excited based on what you do. So we ultimately want people to take a stand – and take a Farmstand for that matter. So it's on affordability; you know, healthy meals shouldn't just be for the wealthy. And you ultimately want these meals to be healthy. So no added sugar is a really important thing. I mean, 73% of the US population now is overweight or obese, if you eliminate sugar, that helps a lot. And then ultimately, we all are short on time. And so you can pop our food in the microwave, and you have to be ready in three minutes, or boil some hot water and you can make that happen. In that way we kind of describe our business as a build-your-own-salad bar meets Uncle Ben's Ready Rice, because our pouches, which are our meals, are basically a base, a main, and a side, they all come separate, so you just put them in boiling hot water, and that's a really great solution. And then now with the environmental problems that we're having, and the increasing temperatures, making sure you have zero waste. So what's great about us is we have no food waste, we have no packaging waste, and after three deliveries, customers can return all the packaging to us. And we reuse that. So we effectively make a profit on the return which is great for us, for growing our business.
So I hear you've been writing a book for about five years now.
It's something that I wanted to do for a while. You read books like Shoe Dog, written by Phil Knight about Nike, and other books out there about your experience. Our business effectively started as a dark kitchen, and we were mostly a B2B play pre-COVID. So we had 12 Farmstand branded concessions inside large corporations like JP Morgan, Barclays, BlackRock, and KPMG, when COVID hit, we had to shut that entire business down. And we started completely from scratch. So the book is called Keep going. So the five things you do when things get difficult, and this is not only in work, but in life. The first thing is that you write down the list of the problems when things get difficult. The second thing is you come up with, hopefully, a set of potential solutions to those problems. The third thing you do is you, you know, ask for help. And then the fourth thing is you start executing on those things. And then the fifth thing, ideally, is that when you fix your problems you try to help other people. That's the general idea around the five things. And, you know, I think in life, it's the same thing, when you have a, you know, you have something, it's difficult, you have to really think about what the problem is and, and be rational about it and try to come up with solutions. So I think whether it's work or life, you really want to rally around, just keeping things as simple as possible, trying to be as rational as you can about it, whether it's a relationship with your partner, or with a work colleague, or it's work in general, you have to be solution-oriented. It's one of the things that we believe at Farmstand, one of our behaviors, people can talk about anything they want with us, or complain about anything they want. But ultimately, you need to find solutions to problems, not just simply complain about them.
What's the timeline to get the book wrapped up?
Well, with restarting the business from scratch in February, and the business growing, you know, more than 20% a month, you know, since we started, you know, folks right now are raising a bit more venture capital, which we just started doing. We're part of an accelerator in Milwaukee, which is how we met called generator, which is, you know, top 10 nationwide business accelerator. So we're focusing on raising capital right now, you know, and if we're here at the end of January now, it would be nice to get something out probably by next year is kind of the idea, maybe to coincide with us launching our business in the US.
Can you share with our listeners one of your favorite networking experiences that you've had?
I think every opportunity we have, when we're walking down the street or in the park, or in a grocery store, or wherever we have an opportunity to meet people, I don't actually like the word "networking". Connecting with people is how I view it. I'm actually much more of an introvert. People have a hard time believing that because I can get up in front of large groups of people and talk, but my natural inclination is to be more of an internal person. So I think on the networking side, I think the best thing to do whenever you're reaching out to people, LinkedIn is probably the most helpful platform that's out there to help you build a business. And I think if you're genuine in your approach, and you're honest about things, I think people generally respond very well to that if you open up by trying to sell something, or super aggressive or send repeated emails, it's not going to work. So I think you're always putting yourself in the other person's shoes. So whether it's, for us in the case of trying to contact people or food service providers, or corporates, or people looking to help us, you know, that's, that's kind of how I've gone about, I guess, you know, networking or connecting with people. I think a lot of times what is super helpful, whether you're trying to raise capital, or you're trying to build your business, is getting introductions through other people. And the easiest way of getting your introductions to other people is preparing an email that's very simple, very short. And to the point, asking someone to make that introduction, it's clear what you want the reduction for, and then they can just forward that email on to other people. So I think, you know, one, you know, example of a relationship that helped get our B2B business started as we went to our first office catering relationship was with JP Morgan, and a friend of mine, Stefan happened to work there, run a division. We had a pop-up restaurant in my house before we started the business. He came over like we were doing when we had a gathering, you know, to kind of launch the business, his daughter came along, and most of our food is gluten-free. And she was like, hey, you know, Dad, wouldn't it be great if you had this at JP Morgan? So Stefan was able to make an introduction to Aramark, which was the food service provider. And then the person that worked at JP Morgan oversaw the relationship with Aramark and effectively headed food services for JP Morgan. So there's a good example of using effectively a friend and obviously the help from his daughter who liked the food, you know, proposing the idea that progressed with us, that was our first relationship with an office caterer. And that led to our second with Compass. And then the third is with ISS, which is based in Copenhagen in a very large relationship for us now. There's like three ways to describe people, either you're a giver or a taker, or you're kind of a bit of both, I'm definitely a giver, I don't expect anything in return. So if I happen to be talking to someone or having a chat with someone a couple days ago, looking to invest in our business, he works in a sector that's not really similar to ours. And I happen to know someone that knows a lot about his sector, that also runs an investment fund. And I said, Hey, you know, you're looking at potentially moving into this investment field, you can probably talk to my friend, he didn't ask me to do this. But I think just volunteering and, and willing to help other people out, usually, that comes back and helps you as well. So I think being a giver versus a taker generally works to your advantage, you don't want to be taken advantage of because you also may have to do your own job. But I think being generous with our relationships and our network with other people can be a useful thing, too.
What advice would you offer the business professional who's really looking to grow their network?
So the first thing about me, which is kind of maybe a bit odd, is I never offer advice. I'm not a person that offers advice, because that presumes that I know more than the other person. And nine out of 10 times, I probably don't, even though I read sometimes up to a book a week. But what I do is offer suggestions, but only when asked. So my suggestion, you know, if you're going to try to grow your business, whatever it is, whether it's a B2B business, or direct consumer business is figuring out like, if especially if it's gonna be focusing on sales or, you know, looking at ways of network effects, which Reid Hoffman talks about in his book, "Blitzscaling", is ultimately look for the two or three or four contact contracts or relationships that could potentially lead to large revenues, versus taking in, so be more of a rifle shooter or a sniper versus using a machine gun approach. And just try to keep the approach, very targeted, very focused, versus being too broad-based. When you launch a business even for us. There's a lot of things we could not have done to launch our business. We, you know, initially started off our business, you know, meals for four, and that was portions for four, then we started with meals for two. And ultimately, we settled on meals for one because individuals are probably easier to market to than families at the end of the day.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of, or differently with regard to your professional career?
Well, it's a really good question. I really haven't thought much about that. But I would say to anyone, especially when you can look in the rearview mirror, is always work with people that have, you know, good values and good behaviors, because ultimately, being around good leaders has the right influence long term. And I think some of the jobs I've taken in the people I've worked with, some of them have had exceptional ethics, and others haven't. So I think the 20-year-old self would be, you know, focused on working with really high-quality people and high-quality organizations, because that will lead to further opportunities with similar people in businesses.
Connect with Steven
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevennovick/
Instagram: @steven_novick
Dave is the principal operations consultant at the Crysler Club and host of the Everyday Business Problems Podcast. Entering entrepreneurship after spending nearly 20 years working for a publicly traded corporation, Dave quickly realized there was a tremendous need within small businesses to have access to the tools and support that were commonplace in a large corporation. Dave developed his operations framework to help small business owners reclaim their life and grow their businesses. Dave, welcome to the show.
What are some key areas that business systems connect and how does that work?
From my standpoint and what I like to talk about from the operations perspective are four core areas. Which are planning, people, process, and technology. No matter if you are dealing with a challenge in your business or you are working on planning to have future growth, either the challenge or what you're trying to tackle is going to be in one of those core four areas. And so, I like to talk about them in that particular order. I will never change the order of them because you can't have one without the other and if you start to layer in technology before you do appropriate planning or have people or have a process in place, it's a little bit like putting the cart before the horse, as the saying goes.
Do you see how people might want to change the order a lot?
Yes. Very often. When you're up against a challenge as a business owner, or if you're on a leadership team probably, the two quickest things I see people fill the gap is with people and technology. And what happens most often is if you're filling the gap with people first, without doing the prior planning and if you don't have documented process even though that comes after the people aspect, what tends to happen is that you have fairly underutilized people. So, we hear a lot of people talk about the efficiency of processes and what they're doing throughout the day. But the thing that a lot of people don't talk about is the utilization of those people, right. So, when you're filling the gap with a person or multiple people, because you're overwhelmed, or you've got too many things on your plate, you've got too many processes or responsibilities tasks that you're responsible for without a well thought out plan or documented processes in place, more than likely, you're going to be wasting a lot of time with those people and there's a lot that goes to that. Over the course of time, if you continue doing that, it's going to have an impact on your culture and many other things. So, I don't want to get too deep into that, but that's kind of problem number one if you're going to fill the gap with people. Problem number two is if going to fill the gap of technology without again having the planning people process part in place, what often happens is that over the course of time, the leadership team business owners, they're going to be pretty unhappy with the overall implementation of that technology. It too often fails either during the initial implementation or over the course of time, because again, you've not had a well thought out plan going into it and maybe that seems a little arbitrary saying that because people I will often hear, now we've evaluated ten to different software, we've gone through all of the sales demos and so on and so forth. But what I'm really talking about from that planning standpoint is understanding, 1. Your business model; and 2. Your business processes; and how you can, by understanding those, leverage that technology to automate and streamline what you're doing. So again, it gets back to increasing the utilization of the people that you have, and if you're freeing their time up, ultimately you can take those resources and redeploy in other areas, hopefully generating additional revenue, or what have you.
What is the best way to get started in systemizing your business?
The best way to get started is to make a conscious decision that that's what you want to do. I think that understanding where you're at today and we do have some tools available to help you do that, but to get a pulse on where you're at today in terms of those planning people, process and technology; when you understand where you're at today, and you understand the goals that you have in terms of what you want your business to be like, that could be more locations that could be just a straight increase in revenue. It could be adding a product line. There are a bunch of different goals that you can line out for yourself but understanding where you're at today how those kinds of core four areas work with each other to get you on a path of systemization to all ultimately achieve the goals that you've now set forth.
What are some things that we should avoid when creating these business systems?
I think the one thing to avoid is taking all of the work on yourself. It's one of the areas that I think, from a leadership perspective, people can often struggle with. And I know I did, right. Like I can always speak to my experiences personally growing up in an entrepreneurial family and entrepreneurial environment, my dad was a second-generation business owner and that business had been started in the seventies. So, if you think back to that time, it was kind of, as I jokingly say, ruled with the iron fist, right, as top-down leadership "do as I say", there wasn't a lot of collaboration, there wasn't a ton of engagement and empowerment happening. Even though those things were still talked about, and you knew that as a leader, as an owner, you had to develop people, all those things, right.
So, as I got leadership roles and kind of more and more responsibility, especially early on in my career, I kind of took that into those leadership roles early on, especially, and while I did have some limited success, I'll call it with different systemization efforts throughout those leadership positions. It wasn't for me until kind of the unlock of what could happen in terms of moving the needle further faster when you started to empower and engage the people around you. So, lately, I've been talking about this collective brainpower component, but what I'm really talking about when I say that it is empowering engaging your team, the people that are doing the heavy lifting, that's the best place to start when it comes to systemization and planning and understanding where the bottlenecks are in your business. So, that's the thing to avoid.
Don't think that you can do all of this on your own. You want to be engaging the people that are doing the heavy lifting day in and day out. They know where the real dirt is; they know what is slowing them down. Don't be afraid to ask them, don't be afraid to engage with them and empower them to bring those ideas to you so you can collaborate. And the other part of that is, obviously, don't be afraid to seek outside counsel. It doesn't necessarily mean that that has to result in some sort of a paid engagement or anything like that, but there are so many resources available, especially today in the day and age of social media. I produce a ton of content. I have a ton of free resources available. So, don't be afraid to kind of seek outside counsel. As I tell people, I've learned this stuff from doing it, over 20 years directly working in operations and manufacturing facilities; many different ones, small size to very large size businesses. So don't be afraid to have counsel engage and empower your team. Those are the best places to start and make sure you're not trying to do all of this on your own. That's the thing to avoid.
When it comes to a process or a system, engaging your team, if you get their input, they automatically have buy-in as opposed to you coming in and saying, "this is how we do things now." If it's their system that they're creating, or they were a part of creating the new system, they're going to adopt it a lot faster than if you're just kind of pushing it in front of them?
Yes, 100%. The other thing about that specifically is when you're building your business, right, at one point, you personally, as an owner, or even if you're in a leadership team, we're probably doing that particular process, and now there are other people doing that process. So, my whole point is, it's probably changed since the last time you had hands-on involvement, which is just another reason to get the people that are doing that process day in and day out to get their input on it. Because they know to the detail, all of the different aspects, all of the different factors, all of the different touchpoints. The one thing we didn't talk about, but let's talk about, internally who their eternal customer is, who they're receiving information and/or products from, right. So, they have all of that information at their fingertips. Go to the source of truth. It's the people doing the work every day.
One of the best things you can do as you get into this stuff, as you get into engaging and empowering people, as you start talking about process improvement and ways that you can eliminate ways throughout your value stream. One of the best things that you can do is to start to collaborate across departments. So, oftentimes what would we do is, let's say we're working on a process improvement project, whether that was, let's just say to identify some waste within a particular process, within a particular department. We would take at least one to two people from the prior department and the department following and bring them into those events so we could get that input because it was so critical to make sure that they understood what they were delivering to the department. We were particularly focused on how what they were delivering impacted that department and the same thing, how the department we were focused on the delivery of whatever they were processing, how that impacted the following department. So, that's an area that, again, as you get a little bit deeper into this tapping into that collective brainpower, and then expanding that into departments touching on either side of the particular department or work center, whatever the case may be that you're working on becomes really, really powerful stuff.
Can you share with our listeners your most successful favorite networking experience that you've had?
It's interesting for me -- kind of my own personal journey on the networking aspect, and hopefully, this is of some value to the people that are listening out there. But I worked in a really big company for many, many years. Nearly half my life, believe it or not, and so, for me, networking back then was all about internal connections, right. We had a company with a total employee number of maybe 3,000 or 4,000 people. So, there were quite a few people internally amongst all of these different business units that were owned by this corporation. So, a lot of my, what I would consider early years was internal networking, right. I didn't put myself out there to meet a lot of people outside of the organization because I didn't understand the real power of putting yourself out there and meeting people outside of the organization. So, when I left that environment in 2018, I very quickly realized that I needed to connect with a lot more people and figure out a way to do that. So, when I started networking, I had on LinkedIn. I think I maybe had right at 500 connections or probably even less than that, to be perfectly honest. And it was one, a little bit intimidating and scary because I think when you're first starting out, especially, you're like, okay to your point, everybody hears this, but what does that mean. Like, how do you just go out and meet people online, and as I keep hearing people say, like, make sure you add value.
What does that mean? How do you build a genuine relationship when you are talking to them over instant messenger, if you will? So yes, I think a couple of things that help me is treating social media like you're in person, which can seem difficult to do. But when you think about it, I had a connection of mine kind of walk me through this example and I just thought it was so perfect. But, if you were a business owner that had a storefront, okay, and somebody walked in the store and was just wandering around kind of looking; don't you think, as a business owner or somebody within that business, you would, "Hey, how are you doing? Is there anything I can help you with? Can I help you look for something?" That would be a pretty typical interaction if you had a storefront, and somebody walked into your business?
If we took that same example and applied it to online if somebody reaches out to you and you just ignore that message, it'd be kind of like you owning a business, somebody walking into it, and you just completely ignoring them. I'm not saying that every interaction is going to turn into a connection or turn into a paid engagement or a sale or any of those things. But I think the easiest way to start networking is to just be human, to show up, to be available, and to put yourself out there and look for opportunities to interact with people. And you do it from a genuine standpoint and it's okay to just say things like, "Hey, how's it going? How's your week going this week? How did your quarter end up?" I think the biggest mistake people make when it comes to networking and even when it comes to sales outreach is trying to hurry the conversation and the relationship to get to a destination. If you just take some time and try to get to know somebody on a genuine level, just like you would at an in-person networking event or as I said, the example that I was taught, I think those are the best ways to get started and to continue. I mean, that's really what served me over a relatively short period. My network has expanded pretty rapidly.
To add, you shouldn't just go out and try to blindly connect with people and try to start random conversations. You want to be identifying people that you can add value to. So, I kind of like to categorize my networking in two different ways. I categorize it in people like yourself. Other professionals who have a deep understanding of some sort of a vertical that potentially is in the same circle as my ideal clients and the other people that I'm trying to reach. And then I have people that are going to be more, let's call them in the prospecting bucket if you will. That from a surface-level perspective, it looks like there's some value that I could add to that person into the things that they're probably going through. So, those are the two ways I like to categorize them. And the last thing I would say that's helped me personally is making sure that you have, again, doesn't necessarily have to be this system, but have a system I particularly like to use the CRM, but it could be something as simple as an Excel sheet or some notes, some really good notes. But have some sort of a system in place to be able to keep track of conversations, keep track of key details about people because it's interesting, you never know where you might be looking at another resource online and somebody will pop in your head and say, oh, man, I have to share this with Lori. I think she'd really appreciate this. Those are the genuine interactions where you either tag, Hey, Lori, you know, I saw this, I thought about you or send you an email or what have you. Those are the types of genuine interactions that build real relationships with people. And that is what we should be focused on from a networking perspective is building real relationships with people just like you would in person. It is really no different.
Another thing I would add to that, oftentimes, you hear people be reserved to get on social because they don't want to create content. And one of the most powerful things you can do if you're not interested in creating content is to engage on other people's posts and you can do that by leaving thoughtful comments. The other part that you can do that again kind of speaks to what I just said is you can tag people in the comments and say, here's why I'm thinking of you. Here's why I think this is relevant to either a previous conversation we had or to a project that you're working on. And not only does that help your own personal connections with the people that you're potentially tagging, but it also can help you build new connections with the people's posts that you're in engaging with. So, you could meet the author; you could meet somebody else in the comments. There are tons of ways to add value, to be engaged without having to necessarily create a bunch of content. And that's one of the things I hear from people is, "well, yeah, you know, but I don't want to do any of that." Okay. Well, here you go. You don't have to. Here's a whole another way you could get involved and build your network without having to be a creator.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old-self, would you tell yourself to do more of/less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I think for me, what I would tell myself is to...when I was that age, I was chasing my goals and my goals at that time were centered mostly around financial success and kind of a level of achievement because I was a very young leader in the position that I was in. And so, what I would tell myself is to be open to new opportunities and to recognize the skillset that you're building and what you could potentially do with that outside of the immediacy of the goals that you're seeking. Sometimes I think we get too focused on that, and we don't open ourselves up to other opportunities. And that's what I would tell myself if I got to go back and do that. Great question.
So how are you going to have these experiences if you're not opening yourself up to accepting them?
I would say it's a real balance there—kind of to your point. You want to be focused on what you're trying to achieve, and you don't necessarily want to take a bunch of twists and turns. But the things I think about are trying other things. How do you really know? I think back and say, I really knew what I wanted to do, and here I am doing something kind of completely different than what I supposedly thought I knew I wanted to do. So, when I was chasing after that and achieving those things, yes. I learned a lot. Yes. It's what shaped me and impacted me today and I'm ultra-thankful for all of those experiences. Even though at the time, I probably would've not said the same thing. It's being open and saying that there are other things out there to look at and to try and to be open to and because at the end of the day, there's a limited amount of time that we have here. And I think one of the things that's kind of thrusting what you hear with this great resignation, I think one of the things that are thrusting that forward is the fact that people are recognizing we are here for a limited amount of time, and there are things that are important. And if you want to achieve something, if you want to try something, nobody's stopping you. Just get out there and try it. A decision today is not permanent unless you make it.
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Meet Nandini:
Nandini is a co-founder and CTO of Speakfully, the organic, ever-evolving human-centric platform to address workplace mistreatment known for humanizing tech solutions. Nandini is ensuring the success of the Speakfully mission by integrating social and emotional intelligence into the overall technical roadmap of the brand; a passionate proponent of women in stem, Nandini supports access to diverse talents while enabling women to grow to learn to their fullest potential.
Can you talk about ways you're supporting and how to be an ally to enable women in tech to progress with their goals and agendas?
It's a very important topic to me. I think we all, as women, especially in the field of tech, know that we are underrepresented, so it's very important to be able to support each other, and we can do it in various ways. So, I think one of the easiest ways is to create a little safe space for women to get together or anyone that associates as women to be together to celebrate the highs and lows, losses, and wins together. I think it's important to show some level of compassion, lean in into the other women, and sort of also be a sponsor for them to be able to grow in their careers.
We all like to face a lot of different things as we're going through, growing, and learning. I think it's important to make sure that especially if you take on a leadership role. It's important to be able to go out there and mentor someone else, take the opportunity, ladies if you're out there as, especially women in leadership positions.
Many people could do with a sponsor, a mentor, and someone who can be a good ally to share your experiences. I think it's very important to lean into them, and I believe in it very passionately. I mentor a lot of folks in my network, and I love doing it. I think it works both ways as far as I'm concerned. I learn from it, and hopefully, someone else learns from it too.
And it's a very important thing to mentor and pay it forward and help elevate those around us. I think we owe it back to society in some ways.
Why is it important to humanize tech products? What does humanizing tech products even mean and how do you do it?
I get asked that a lot. Like when I’d say I love to like trying to humanize tech products. So, suppose someone asks me what it is. In that case, it's essentially thinking of it as you're building something that would present use for technology in a sense that allows you to connect with other people and other humans and also put you a little more mentally and emotionally in charge of what you're trying to accomplish. And the irony is when you think about tech products, and I'm talking purely from a software aspect because that's my skill set. If you look at technology products, the irony is a lot of it is meant to try and connect people, but in the process, I think the communication process has become completely discombobulated in many ways, especially now, in the world that we're living in. In a pandemic or a post-pandemic world, people create that human connection and we're all sitting in front of our computers, and we are all having to deal with various products that we are using in our day-to-day lives. But how many of those products are putting you in the front seat emotionally? And how many of those products are allowing you to engage with them where you are in charge of making that final decision? You don't want to build software solutions that are just meant to be there to make just for the sake of automation. For example, I don't want the software product to tell me what clothes I need to wear. I want them to maybe give me a range and to give me different factors, for example, and say, here's the weather, here's the situation, or here's the place you're going to go to. And then I would still want to be in charge of what I'm going to wear as opposed to a software solution or a bot telling me what I should wear. So, that's a subtle difference, but that can essentially put you in charge of things, what we are doing, and the work that I'm doing now.
Also is about how you are essentially wanting to come forward with what you're experiencing, whether you're in the workplace or whether it's personally depending on what you're going through. I don't want to be sitting and talking to a bot that is just being very insensitive to what my situation is. I want compassion, and I want human connection. And that's the humanizing portion of the whole technology if that makes sense. I know I said a lot of different things there, but that's kind of what humanizing tech means to me, at least.
Are you talking about AI to some extent?
AI to some extent, yes. I think AI is such a buzzword at the moment. Everyone wants to do AI. Largely, it's meant to make life easier. Largely, it's meant to make decision-making more informed, but at the same time, we need to know where we have to cross the line. Do you want to provide enough information to your end-user so they can be in charge and make the decisions on their own or know what kind of conversations they need to have with people? Absolutely.
Would you rather have AI kind of have those conversations for you or make those decisions for you? Probably not. And that's the sight that I don't necessarily fall in. I believe that if we are building software, we as technologists, I think we have this big moral responsibility on our shoulders that if we are building a software product and putting something out there, let's leverage AI to the point where it's the bare minimum and needed, but you still need to make sure that the human connection is not being replaced by a bot.
It's really hard to get it right. If you're trying to automate the whole process of emotion. I mean, emotion is so centric to humans. It's our thing, right? It's what differentiates us from anything nonhuman. So, it's very hard to train a bot to like to have that right balance. So, if you're seeing like every sentence in a chatbot being followed with a little smiley emoji, then yes. It's the algorithms skewed too much to one side.
How do you instill diversity and inclusivity specifically near the space of project engineering when it’s not fully represented by various demographics?
When you think about it and say diversity and inclusion it probably again, it's another buzzword these days, but if you step back and look at it, I think it's got to mean something different. It has to have different meanings to different people. So, the way I think of inclusivity and diversity is really in perspective, in thought, in ideas. And I think it's important to make sure that those ideas are in an environment like especially engineering teams, tech teams, you've got to make sure that there's enough. You set the framework and set the team dynamic in such a way that diversity and thought are to be included without condition. That's like the top level of it. But as again, if you really do want to instill a sense of diversity and inclusion or instill that passion in the team, then I think the first and foremost thing is like the awareness of the gap, right. I mean, recognize where the gap exists. Is it a pay gap for example, or is it really a gap in representation or is it a talent gap, and each of these needs to be handled in different ways? So, I think the first step I would advise is to recognize where that gap exists and make sure that you are aware of that. When you do, then if you, for example, if it's a pay gap, then you have a very clear idea of what you need to do to close that gap. You've got to go after and make sure there's equity in pay. For example, if it's a representation gap, then clearly there is a problem in your talent pool and the hiring process. So, maybe go after that and fix it. So, I think it comes down to first being aware and then really trying to like to have a path forward to like to try and close where that gap exists. And more than anything, I think it is also culturally. We all need to be very purposeful in our approach to this. I think we all need to be super proud of the fact that, we are making an attempt to create that diverse environment and we need to own it unless you're going about it in a very intentional way. You're not going to find true results in actually moving the needle and creating more representation. And like I said earlier too, it's like as a woman leader, I think it's very important for me and as it's the responsibility lies on my shoulder. I do need to give it back to make sure that we are creating environments where everyone can come together and have a very collaborative, positive interaction regardless of what we're doing.
And I think geography matters too, right? Depending on, and this is a practical world that we live in; recognize how the coasts approach it, even in our country. The coasts approach it very differently than other parts of the country. So, factor those things in as well. Sometimes, depending on the geographic area you're in diversity or representation of different demographics is super easy. It's almost like a second thought, not a second thought, but in other areas, for example, you have to be more intentional about it, but it's okay for us to like go after it as an agenda item especially as leaders because it's important. That's the only way you're going to have a truly inclusive environment. And along with that comes a huge level of training as well like. Maybe people aren't seeing eye to eye that this is something that needs to be solved for in the organization. Maybe we like to leverage some good training programs. So, people know how the business can be impacted when you have a more diverse team. So, I think all of it put together is kind of there's no one agenda item you can go after, there's no one thing you can do and solve all of your DNI action items magically, but you have to really go after it in a very purposeful way.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
I recently joined a diversity channel. It was basically like a Slack channel, and one of their biggest agenda items was providing us a safe space for women and women of color to come together and talk about issues they're facing. I think one of my favorite interactions there was talking about how? Someone asked us the question on the channel about how your past experiences or negative experience could have essentially shaped you to be who you are today? And I was just essentially blown away by the types of responses you saw to that question. It was eye-opening for me in so many ways but also a little disappointing because you think you know the different negative experiences that people might face, but it was tremendous for me to see the power in that conversation, and I think that's been my favorite networking moment so that I can think of at the moment.
Vulnerability is the word for it. And I think, often, leaders tend not to want to be vulnerable because they confuse that with the sign of weakness. I think it's quite the opposite. I think you being vulnerable in a sense, essentially creates a sense of compassion, and you function with a high level of IQ, and I think that's what I think good leaders should try to do.
How do you stay in front of and nurture the community that you've created?
I think it's like I said, you've got to be able to share your wins and your losses together. You've got a good network. We've all taken our time building our network around us. It's very important to be around each other, and you don't use your network just as an excuse to just go meet people. I think you have to be more authentic about it, and that's how you do it in a way that you are open about the way that you're communicating with each other and making sure you are there for your network as well. It's not just about you tapping into your network. It's not one-sided, but I think it has to be a two-way street. So, if there are people that need you, show up for them, and I think that's how you end up being in the front and center of it. Support each other, and it may even mean like people post different things on social media. You might need to just be there, participate in the conversation, engage with them. And those are ways that you can actually like to promote each other. I think that's important to do as part of any network.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old-self, what would you tell yourself to do more of, less of, or differently with regards to your professional career?
I think it's important for me to have been more confident in myself. So, I think I would've told myself to do more confident things. I don't know what else to say, but essentially doing things that can create a sense of self-confidence. I think I definitely would've liked to do more of that. I think maybe less of going out and watching games. Perhaps a little bit less of that. Oh yes, and here's another one I think I would tell myself to write shorter emails. I tend to be very, very wordy with my emails, but I think I've learned to be more concise and brief. So, I would definitely tell myself that. I think that's something most people in their 20s don't understand. It might seem very significantly big, but in the long scheme of things, such as career and life, it is a marathon. It's not a sprint.
Do you have any final word or advice to offer our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
Absolutely. Just be there for the network. Show compassion and lean into your network; and compassion is the next level beyond being supportive. I think we all need to stretch a little bit to meet our network, and I think that's a very important thing to do. We all owe it to our network.
Connect with Nandini:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nandinieaswar
Website: www.speakfully.com
Robert Cruess is an original Founder and the President of ZeroNox. Mr. Cruess is an Entrepreneur and Businessman, having obtained a Business degree from the Franciscan University of Steubenville in 2009, and also holds a Real Estate License and Mortgage License. Mr. Cruess’ experience and expertise include starting and running several businesses, sales, product development, real estate, loans, youth outreach, and community growth. Mr. Cruess’ Business contributions include patents for products he has designed, starting multiple business’, and doing Multi-Million Dollars in Real Estate transactions through his Real Estate Investment Companies: Rico Property Group, Invia Investments, and HCS Investments. Mr. Cruess was born in Spokane, Washington but has lived most of his life in Porterville, California and the San Joaquin Valley, is married and enjoys time with his wife and 5 children, volunteering in the local community, and is an avid sports fan.
Meet Alex
Alex is the co-founder of Ike Media and a graduate of the University of Wisconsin, Madison. Alex is the host of the top rated Green Bay Packers, Milwaukee Box, Milwaukee Brewers and Wisconsin Badges Podcast on the Apple Podcast Platform. He loves producing original music with, you can find that at Ike Music on Spotify and currently resides in Oslo Norway, where he has been working to expand the influence of the Ike brand internationally.
How has moving to Norway added value to the IKE brand and impacted you as an individual?
Well, it's been so big for the international presence of Ike. So Ike, we've always had this goal of creating an international brand. That is something that we strategically thought about from the beginning when we set up the brand and how do you make that a reality, right. So, the first step actually was, when I was in school at Madison, I was invited to an international sports conference in Switzerland. I was one of 50 international global challengers, that's what they called it, or disruptors to the sports industry because of what we did on Twitter and that kind of really just got my brain going because I got to meet all different cultures here, all these different perspectives on sports, make all these great connections all over the world. And it just felt like my time or my chapter in Europe was not over. It just wasn't that we got the conference. I had to continue to expand those relationships and the influence of the brand.
So, when I moved to Norway, it was definitely one of the craziest things I ever did. And sometimes I can't even believe that I did it. I think the word that describes it was brave but it's something that's so, I think, relatable and people have to take a chance in life at some points, whether it's starting a business or moving to a new city. And what always happens if you embrace that opportunity is good things and that's been exactly what's happened for Ike. We've been able to not only connect with athletes then in the United States but sprinters or athletes in Europe, soccer players, models, all sorts of new people and it's expanded the way I view the world. I view it through a much larger lens now, and that has been so great for my personal development as well as Ike's content strategy, it's positioning, it's brand positioning, the type of music we create. So, it really stems down deeper into the brand. It's not like I can point to one thing that it's specifically changed, but it's had a huge impact and influence on the brand. And it's brought in a ton of international listeners. That's something we're very proud of on our podcast network is that we have over a hundred countries listening to our podcasts. And so, sometimes you have to pinch yourself that you can go to Norway. And one of the best athletes in Norway is listening to your Milwaukee Bucks podcast and then you talk over that and it's just kind of a smaller world than you would imagine. But it's really helped define that Ike is not just a United States brand, it's an international brand, a global brand. It’s definitely something that I think I'll remember forever. I can speak a second language now so that's always been a personal goal of mine as well, and to learn a second language without being bilingual. That has also given me the confidence that I can learn other things that are complicated.
For someone who wants to start a podcast, but hasn't yet, why should they create one in 2022?
Because it's how you create genuine connections with people today. It's so hard in a world of social media, a world of constant small and shorter content. We're all trying to intake shorter content to really create a genuine connection with people. And the real way I first kind of got the hint was through the music we produced, is that people who listen to your music, they don't just listen once they listen multiple times and then they feel like they almost know you at a personal level. And so, podcasting is kind of a continuation of that. You can share your story, you can let people get to know you, it can be vulnerable, and that's how you grow genuine connections. I think about the last time I sat down and watched a video on YouTube on my phone for 30 minutes, it's really rare that I'll do that, but podcasting, I can ingest that in so many passive ways. I think that it's just reaching more people each day and it's very forward looking. So, if you want to set up something that's not going to disappear in five years and that will be around for 10, for 20, for even 50 to a 100 years, I believe that is podcasting. I believe that's audio based content. And so, that's why I'm so excited to encourage people to take a free consultation with us, hop on the phone with us, let us talk about podcasts, explain it to you and really how it can help your business or brand, create real revenue and value through networks.
How can podcasts really create value for B2B businesses?
For B2B businesses, it's kind of a lot of people think, oh, you know, I'm not trying to reach the customers, the C level, but the B2B it's the network building. So, if you have a podcast, for example, in the FinTech realm, getting business in that realm either requires going to conferences, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend these big conferences in Amsterdam, such as Money 2020, or you got to put up a lot of money, but the podcasting is a way to make that connection with someone. You can invite them, instead of trying to say, "Hey, I want to sell you something". You can say, "Hey, I'd love to have you on my podcast". You get to learn about that person. You get to connect with them, see how well you vibe, almost develop a little bit of a friendship during the show. And then that leads to business, that leads to staying in contact and it's almost like a foot in the door in a lot of ways that you can't normally get that foot in the door. I find that the conversion is much better to just say, "Hey, would you like to join my podcast; would you like to have a conversation"; rather than saying, "Hey, would you like to purchase this? Or would you like to explore this sales-oriented mindset?" So, I think for B2B they can really benefit from just the network of it, not only the network of it, but the way it can help grow your brand within an industry too. If you want to be a thought leader, a podcast is a great way to become a thought leader because you get to talk about the industry, talk about what your business does, why it's different, what makes your technical advantage better than your competitors. And, I think just getting that word out, getting that out on the internet is so beneficial. I've seen the results time and time again. That's why I always encourage people. It's not just about having a huge audience. It's also about your guests a lot of the time. Are you connecting with the guest and that's really an important thing?
Even for us in the sports world, like connecting with a player rather than just doing it for the fans of its sports team. It's to build those relationships with the players which then might lead to an N.I.L deal or something like that, which is exactly what happened for us in the case of Caesar Williams, the Wisconsin cornerback. We started off on a podcast and a lot of relationships have been built that way. So, I encourage people to also think about the relationship building potential of podcasts.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
Yes, it actually comes from one of the first times I went to Europe. There's this common expression you'll hear from people as an invitation. It's, would you like to take a coffee? Lori, would you like to take a coffee with me? And what that really means is you just grab a coffee with that person and you sit down and you talk while you drink that coffee, whether it's on a couch in a cafe. And it's something that I just kind of noticed that these business people that I was around people that I was looking up to were using as an easy way to start the conversation because it's, if you say, "Hey, do you want to sit down and talk about podcasting?" People might put up a hesitation saying, "Hey, not right now. Maybe later or let's get it on the calendar", but if you say let's just take a coffee or something simple, it's that same weight with the podcast invitation we just talked about. It's an easier way to get your foot in the door and I found that whether the person doesn't drink coffee or not, it's just almost a casual way to invite them into your world.
How do you stay in front of and nurture these relationships that you've created and fostered?
I think Ike is a big component of it. So Ike, for those listening, we've reached hundreds of millions through social media impressions every year. And that is a way of people almost feeling like they're up to date with what you're doing in a certain sense, because Ike is so all close to our passions in the sports world, but on a more personal level, it's not always that easy, but I think it's the power of giving them like a quality amount of time, whether that's like 30 minutes or a 1 hour phone call being present during that. And that's more powerful than me consistently checking in. I do have some friends that I'd love to consistently check in and just put things on the calendars just to have conversations with. But I try to do these deeper conversations, which brings it back to podcasting. It's longer like ingested content because you're spending more time in a continuous bunch. I know myself, I have a decreasing attention span. I think we all do just as a result of technology. And so to spend that quality amount of time, maybe 30 minutes or more with someone on the phone or in person, I found that to be very, very powerful and help maintain those relationships.
If you could go back to your 20 year old self, what would you tell yourself to do more of, less of, or differently with regards to your professional career?
So I was at UW Madison. I was a software engineering student, so that's actually my educational background and one thing I think I wish I would've done more is probably in college, I think it would be to further like my relationships with older individuals at that university, or just, because college is such a great opportunity to meet people. I find that the whole reason the Ike podcasts have grown to what they are is because of some of these relationships I met in college, for example, the Ike Badger's podcast. When I was 20, I met Zach Baun. He's now a linebacker for the New Orleans Saints. And we met just the old fashioned college way. We became friends because he had a golden retriever like the most old fashioned way you meet someone through a dog and we've stayed in contact. We've helped each other professionally, both ways. I did his podcast interviews when he was in the draft process. I was promoting him to help him get his name out there. And he's helped us in return through connections. He connected us with many Badger players. And so, I think just how much has stemmed from him. I imagine more could have been stemmed if I had maybe done more networking events, been out of my comfort zone a little more in a little more open to meeting people of an older age. When you're in college you almost want to just meet your friends and do the college things. And I was so heads down in that but those relationships you meet at that age are super valuable for the future. So, I think it would've been maybe probably networking a little more. And yes, I think other than that I'm pretty proud of graduating as a software engineer. I'm proud of the decision to move to Norway and move out of my comfort zone. And, I'm also proud that back then when I was 20 years old, we were putting out Ike content. It's been around for that long. And so I'm very happy that we did it. I think if I could give myself some advice, it would be less Twitter more like more other forms of content or something like that. Or maybe always listen to podcasts that would've been a great one, Lori. If I was listening to podcasts when I was 20, ingesting the great information you can get in podcasts, I probably would've been a little more ahead in terms of the new social platforms. I would've been earlier to those. I would've been ahead on the trends. And so that, I think would've been a great thing to tell myself is, "Hey, less trap music, more podcasts."
Any final word or advice to offer our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
Your focus determines reality. Where are you focused? That is something that I have struggled with having multiple passions. Maybe not at first knowing what I exactly wanted to do in life. And so, having that focus I found has been really important like going after a certain type of client, being more niche oriented in a certain way, targeting very important people rather than just a larger group of people. And so, we found great benefits through that. I think podcasting is one of those ways and tools to grow your network through a focus. Every podcast has to have a focus in order to attract listeners. Whether it's a sports team, whether it's FinTech, anything having a clear focus is going to help you network within that group and lead to good results.
Connect with Alex:
Email: welcometoIke@gmail.com
Meet David
After 28 years as a highly-skilled employee, David was told that his job was over. Despite the immediate trauma and fear, he knew that as his next step, he’d rather work for himself and have more control over his destiny. That was in 2006.
Today, David is a thriving community builder, podcaster, and speaker. He helps high-achieving professionals, who have had a late-career job loss, build their consulting or coaching business, so they can do what they love and get paid what they’re worth.
How did you learn to network and develop business relationships?
As I was thinking about our discussion today, I reflected on the 28 years in my career that I was an employee, before I started my own business in 2006. I always was involved in building relationships outside of my job and outside of my organization so I would always find opportunities to network with colleagues. I would join associations of people that were doing something similar to what I was doing, I would take advantage of opportunities to learn and to get some professional development. When I started my business, one of the things that I realized within the first year is that the network that I had, as an employee, was not necessarily the network that was going to help me build my business. And, although I did maintain the relationships that I had, with, with colleagues and friends that I had built up over the years as an employee, and in fact, those relationships helped me get some of my first consulting clients. I had kind of an eye-opening experience, with a friend of mine, who also went from being a longtime employee to being self-employed. About a year before, I was having dinner one night, and she said to me, "I'm part of this organization and I think you might find it interesting to come to a meeting." It was a BNI meeting, and I'd never heard of BNI or knew anything about business networking. I immediately realized the power of being in a room with other entrepreneurs, not just with professional colleagues and so I ended up joining. I have to say that not only do you get to network in networking organizations like BNI, but they also teach you networking. That's one of their goals as an organization is to try to help everybody do better at business networking, as well as build relationships as they do that. Even though I'm not currently a BNI member, I have relationships and still have clients that emerged from BNI. Some of my best friends as entrepreneurs also came out of that BNI experience and so that was sort of my first foray into business networking, and I got to be pretty good at it. I would not only do networking in my chapter, but I got to know a lot of people in other BNI chapters. The next thing for me in terms of networking, and building relationships, as an entrepreneur emerged from content creation, and in particular podcasting. I'm sure you know, as a podcaster that if you're doing interview-based shows, you get this opportunity to have in-depth conversations. Often they feel like intimate conversations with someone new on a regular basis and you get to build relationships with those people and you get to share your mutual knowledge with your audiences. I found that since I started podcasting seven years ago, it has enabled me to build relationships with new groups of people that I didn't know before. And I'm based in New York and even though I'm pretty well networked in the New York metropolitan area, podcasting enabled me to develop a whole new network that was international, which is great.
What is the connection between your relationships and the evolution of your business?
Well, for one thing, as far as the relationships themselves are concerned. One of the things that I've learned to do over the years, and I encourage other people to do when they're trying to build relationships, is focus on the relationship. So that means being curious, asking open-ended questions and I recently learned a framework for questions that I love from a podcast guest, Rock Robinson which he calls his Fab Five. The first one is about geography so asking where someone is from because it's not a threatening question so people automatically will start to think of who they might know in common based on geography. The second one is family, which is just asking someone to tell you about your family and that will allow you to learn something about that person. The same thing with school because pretty much everybody has some kind of school experience and there's usually something interesting to share about that. I like to ask people about their career journey because no matter where you are in the stage of your career, everybody's career is different. Then the last question is what excites you which then can start to get to something that may be closer to what it is you do in your business. So being curious and asking open-ended questions is key. The other thing is in the world, there are givers, there are takers, and there are exchangers and people that are best at relationship building are exchangers. I like to ask how I can help somebody else first. I try to be a generous person, I think that kind of sets the stage for how I like to be known, and then the last thing that I will usually end with, particularly if it's been a fruitful conversation, is asking if there is anyone else I should talk to and maybe for an introduction. If you get an introduction to somebody, they're much more likely to respond. The most important thing is also when there's some call to action or some action plan that you have as a result of a discussion with somebody else, make sure you follow up. So I try to be systematic about following up and make sure that I do if I offer to help somebody in some way. Relationships do take time and the good relationships are what has led to most of my long term clients, which is great and also opportunities.
How is social capital integral to the impact you are trying to have in the world?
So there's one thing that I have noticed with high achieving professionals when they go from being in an organization to being independent, is that the social infrastructure has vanished. So you have this formal structure that when you're part of an organization, that of course disappears when you walk out the door. But also, the informal structure follows it often. It may not disappear completely, but all of a sudden, your quote-unquote friends from work, you may find that they're they've ghosted you for a whole variety of reasons and you spend a lot of time alone, and the loneliness and the isolation, combined with the fear of doing all these new things. If you have gone from being an employee to being a consultant, when your job was terminated then there can also be shame associated with the job loss. It's not something people talk about a whole lot and so being able to connect with other people that have some of these similar challenges, that you're facing similar issues, people that are also building a consulting business. You don't need to reinvent the wheel, but if you connect with other people you'll learn things from them and they'll learn things from you. Connecting with other people, I think is important to be being to your ability to be able to overcome that and for me, I like to be a connector and so for me, yes, I do know a lot about how to build a successful consulting business, but I feel great when I'm able to connect people.
Can you share with our listeners your most successful or favorite networking experience that you've had?
I'm going to reflect back on my first visit to a BNI meeting when I was terrified about the idea of getting up and giving a 60 second commercial about myself, and my business was pretty new at that time. I did have clients, but didn't have a huge track record so I was pretty insecure about what I was selling, and to be able to get up in front of 30 plus strangers at seven o'clock in the morning and to give a coherent 60 second commercial was pretty terrifying. I have to say, the people in the room couldn't have been nicer to me and more supportive and people came up to me afterwards and just tried to be nice and helpful. When you're with people, I had a podcast guest who actually is an expert on networking, and one of the things he said was that we all know this the phrase, people do business with people they know, like and trust and he added another line to that, which is people do business with people they know, like, trust and care about them and at that meeting I felt like there there was genuine caring in the room and it made a huge difference.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture your network in your community?
I think it's important to actually have a process for keeping track of who you're connecting with, and having a process for follow up. So one of the things that I do is, I make notes after I speak to people and I keep the notes and I keep them organized. I also make notes on my calendar of when I'm supposed to follow up with somebody. So if you and I are speaking today and we decide to keep in touch, three months from now, I'll make a note in my calendar three months from now to reach out and add notes in my calendar as to some of my notes from our conversation so I can go back and look at it in case I don't remember all the details.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
Follow your heart. I studied engineering for 7 years and I worked as an engineer for 4 years, and then I went into the nonprofit sector. And honestly, when I was in school, I had thought about whether this was really the right thing to study. I did well in school and in my career, but my heart wasn't really in it. So for every pivot I've made, mtt career has ended up moving me in a direction where I'm actually doing things that I'm happier doing. I will admit that each of the pivots usually came with not just me moving forward, but somebody pushing me to do it!
What final word do you have to share with our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
If you're feeling uncomfortable in anything you're doing with regard to relationship building. Pay attention to the discomfort and if you believe that the step that you are about to take, which is making you uncomfortable, is a good step, take it. Because if you're feeling uncomfortable means you're probably in a state of growth and that you're doing something that's going to help you grow and relationship building can really help you grow quite a bit, as you've heard from our conversation today so take that step.
Connect with David
Website: https://smashingtheplateau.com/
Smashing The Plateau Podcast: https://smashingtheplateau.com/episodes/
Going Solo Podcast: https://smashingtheplateau.com/goingsolo/
Meet Ben
Ben has been helping his clients communicate for the last quarter of a century.He is the author of two books on personal branding and leadership, the host of the 5 year and syndicated YourLIVINGBrand.live show and the executive producer of the Communicate Your Why program.
Ben's mission is to help companies, and the people within them communicate more effectively internally.
To create opportunities for people to listen, understand and act in ways that drive culture, goals, and profitability
Meet Jennifer
Jennifer Shaheen is the founder and President of The Technology Therapy Group. She is recognized as an expert in planning, implementing, and translating digital marketing and technology. Over her twenty-year career, Jennifer has worked in a myriad of industries as a digital advisor: finance, banking, manufacturing, design, construction, luxury, retail, and travel. Jennifer is a digital transformation expert, user experience enthusiast, and data insights specialist.
How important is mindset when we think about digital marketing and today's technologies?
I love this question because mindset has a big thing to do with being successful today. As you probably know, Lori, doing what you do, it's gotten more difficult to do certain things. Why I say that is because oftentimes we're looking at being much more personalized in our digital marketing and mindset is important to get you into that headspace of saying, "I am trying to do the best thing for my customer or client who's trying to reach me, and not always the easiest things for us, as marketers," and I think that's a really important part of talking about digital marketing today.
Is it important to be on all digital marketing channels today?
Being on all of them can be somewhat overwhelming! I do think it's important that you protect your brand and reserve your names, and oftentimes, depending upon the size of your company, I think it's important that we are very specific about understanding the return on investment per channel. To be on all of them may mean that you're on none of them, right? It's kind of like if you spread all your money around, you don't often have an opportunity to focus it. So depending upon what your budget is, you always want to look at protecting your brand, but you may want to think a little bit about how you're putting your efforts into the channel based on who your audience is, and what success or return you're getting. As you said it right at the beginning, Lori, you're most active on LinkedIn and I would guess you're probably most active on LinkedIn because that's probably where you get the most return from your activity.
How can you know if your digital marketing channels are working?
One of the things that I think you need to look at is the metrics for those channels. So if you understand your audience, then if you look at that particular channel, let's go ahead and use Instagram for a moment. If your account is set up as a business account, you will be able to see information about the demographics of your followers. The same is true for Facebook and the same is true for LinkedIn so looking at that information is extremely important to understanding if that the audience that you said you wanted to be talking to, if you are getting those followers there, and then what I often do is have people follow that through and see if it's coming through any inquiries or outreach.
Can you share with our listeners your most successful or favorite networking experience that you've had?
So I used to teach a networking class and I had four keys to being a successful networker. The first was to listen and how we translate that into the digital world now is by reading the comments and the actual posts that people put in there. That is what I now call digital listening. Years ago, when I taught that class, we would listen to someone speaking verbally but it still works! The second tip is to ask thoughtful questions and the third is to give. What I mean by that is to give something of value or feedback, it doesn't always have to be a lead with networking, but a tip, a direction, something that shows that you as the listener and the person looking to grow that conversation is engaged and paying attention. My fourth tip is always to record. Why that is so important is because when I started my business in the late 90s, I was very into keeping a record of all of my conversations and everyone I met in a CRM or customer relationship management database. That record portion was so important because it helped me connect the dots between the people I met and the referrals I received and I believe that those four tips are still really important today.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture your network and your community?
Right now I have to be honest because, after the holidays, you sort of feel like you're in that holiday haze. But one of the best ways, for me, is digital listening as I mentioned before. So going down and thoughtfully looking through what people are talking about and adding that commentary for relationships. But the other thing is making time to at least reach out and build those one on one relationships. I do think that's always important as well because I think we get so caught up in what we're doing that we need to make that time to step back and say I need to be connecting with and spending time one on one with people.
What advice would you offer to business professionals looking to grow their network?
I think that growing your network means growing it intelligently. I want to go back to something we were just talking about a little while ago, which is our audience. So if you're growing your network, be honest with yourself about what you need to grow your business and also those kinds of partners that you feel not only will give value to you, but you can give value to them. So you cannot be all things to all people which is why I think it's really important and growing your network to be reaching out and working with those where you do see really strong reciprocal relationships.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less than or differently with regards to your professional career?
It's interesting because I had those four rules and I had a really good process for networking, but what I noticed as I grew my team is that I somehow lost that process-driven mindset and that is something I wish I had not lost because when I was working by myself, I had this idea of being very focused and disciplined and process-oriented. Then as I started to bring on more team members, I sort of let go and I do find that it is so important when you're growing an organization and you're bringing on team members, that you need to be very clear about your process, which will then dictate your expectations.
What final words of advice would you like to offer our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
So I think in general, I want to go to something which is really important for growing and supporting your network and you really want to be mindful of what you're putting out there and the message you're trying to spread. I think that's really important because you attract what you're putting out there! Be yourself and you will attract those that come to you and that's really how you're going to build a loyal network and a great business!
Connect with Jennifer
Website: https://technologytherapy.com/
Competition Is Better Served As Co-opetition
Lori: Hello everyone, welcome back to the third Episode in our Manufacturing Mavens Podcast Mini-Series! Let’s get started by introducing my co-hosts for the series, Kristina (Kris) Harrington and Erin Courtenay.
Kris Harrington is the President and COO for GenAlpha Technologies. During her time with OEMs in the mining industry, Kris and the other founders of GenAlpha saw a need to find a better way for B2B manufacturers to do business. This led to the development of Equip, an eCommerce, eCatalog, and Analytics solution for manufacturers and distributors who want to grow their business online.
Erin Courtenay is VP of Digital Services at Earthling Interactive. Erin loves watching programmers work their magic, opening up the possibilities of the internet to small and medium businesses with powerful websites and custom software. Calling herself a “digital empathy practitioner”, Erin is determined to help clients move thoughtfully and compassionately into their digital future.
I’m going to start today’s episode by leading with a bit of a story of what I learned over my years of running my business. When I started, I was ignorant and thought that I had to do it all on my own and figure everything out by myself even though I truly had no idea what I was doing! For some reason, I had the belief that when I figured something out, I shouldn’t share it with others because they should have to figure it out on their own as well. As I have developed in my professional career, my thoughts around that have evolved and I actually feel the opposite way now! A couple of years ago I attended a networking event and met a new agency owner. She was in the same mindset as I was when I first started my business so I offered to connect with her and I just shared everything I learned in the 10 years I had been running my business. She was amazed that I would be so open with my experiences and from that connection, we now have such an amazing relationship where we share wins and send opportunities to each other. That brings us to today’s topic which is cooperating with your competition.
Lori: Let’s dive into it! How would you two describe competition and co-opetition?
Erin: When we're looking for definitions of competition, I think the good thing that competition does is it drives us to do better! Ultimately, competition is about the drive to achieve. There are a bunch of unhealthy things that can go with that, but that's the part that we need to keep alive and we need to kindle in our business and throughout our business. But co-opetition is a behavior and it's the behavior that helps you do better, and that helps you be better. So who or what is a better resource for achieving greatness than other folks doing what you do? So the co-opetition is really about achieving with your peers.
Kris: When it comes to I guess the definition, I like to think of a pie and when it's competition, one company gets the whole pie and oftentimes there's a winner, and there's a loser because someone gets 100% of the pie and the other gets zero. But when it's co-opetition, there could be some sharing of the pie, and often, when we think about it in terms of business and going after a business deal and being rewarded and earning the business of a customer, my hope is that when we are cooperating with our peers to solve a problem for a customer, maybe the circumference of the pie can grow. Now, you might not get 100% like you were in competition, but if you're doing well for the customer, the customer wins and we win in helping to bring our strengths together to solve the problem for the customer.
Lori: At what point did you start to think differently about your competition?
Kris: I've always been an athlete, and I have been in individual sports like I ran cross country, and while there's a team aspect to cross country, there's also that individual aspect. I also played basketball and soccer where you need a team in order to succeed. I always loved team sports, and I loved bringing out the best in everyone that was competing and I feel like I learned that early on. Now, as I've grown and come to be a professional and I'm in my career and I'm going after business and running a company, I realize that we have strengths in our niche where we play and other friends and competitors out there who are competing for the dollars available inside a manufacturer, let's say, in a particular time period and they have dollars available. So we're kind of competing for those dollars, but to solve the problem for the customer, we can bring our strengths, but our strengths don't always meet the full needs of what the customer is looking for. So that's when I started to realize that if we bring these other people in who have these great resources and ideas, and the strengths and the gap areas that we don't fit, we could actually be stronger together!
Erin: When I began my endeavor in manufacturing, I was very wary and I wasn't sure who was okay to talk to. I was introduced to another E-commerce expert and I felt shocked, first of all, that they would want to have a conversation with me. Second of all, their transparency, their absolute delight and excitement for me that I was out there and I was going to be doing this took me aback. It wasn't very long after that, that I became part of this amazing network of other experts in our field, and it just transformed our attitude in our approach to business at Earthling, because we understood better after getting to know these folks what we were good at, and what wasn't necessarily our best specialty and where we should refine and where we should turn to others to get the benefit of their expertise. So I think a lot of it goes back to LinkedIn and the social selling experience that illuminated for me why co-opetition is such a healthy and productive way of doing business.
Lori: What are the risks and rewards of co-opetition and do you two have any specific examples you can share?
Erin: This is a good question because it gets into the uncomfortable parts of co-opetition. The risk is about the vulnerability that you have to bring to co-opetition and that vulnerability is the good part, but if there's any lingering anxiety, fear, insecurity behind that, it can damage relationships and impact your performance. So when you move into a cooperative relationship with someone, you need to do some self-reflection and know that that's where you want to be and what you really want to do. So the risk is that you don't do that self-reflection, you get into the relationship and you start having those sort of yucky territorial situations. Thankfully, there are a lot of advantages in terms of co-opetition. You asked me about an example so we had an opportunity that was an RFP which came into Earthling, and there were a couple of other agencies who specialized in different areas than we did, who we had worked with in the past on similar projects. They both approached me when I was new in my role and had the thought that I was gonna win at all so I said, "No thank you," which was naive and dumb on my part, because had we worked together even though we did win the project, we still ended turning to them to get help. But I had done exactly what I described before where it sort of poisoned the well with my competitive thinking and was unable to make the best of the relationship. We did very well with the client, but the relationship was tense the whole time. After that, what I gained was knowing what our specialty was. When we respond to these RFPs, sticking to our specialty and are very comfortable reaching out to other folks for their specialties so that we can deliver the best product for the client.
Kris: For me, it's that disbelief that you might give away your secret sauce, that there's something special your organization is doing, and you have a way of doing it. I loved what Erin said about vulnerability and I also think that the dollar value change is something that is a risk, depending on how you might have planned for something as you've thought about it. When you asked for examples, I was just speaking to another woman yesterday and she's covering the aviation industry and the aviation industry is the industry that we would be a great fit for, but we just don't have a lot of experience. As I was speaking to her, I thought, "Wow, what an introduction and an opportunity for us," because she has credentials that we don't have, but would certainly be required, that could help us actually participate in a space where those credentials are required, and where there's a high level of regulation and other things happening. So it was just a great example of when you meet other people, and you think about places where you would like to take your business, some people may already be there, and they have the strengths around that area. Your product, your solution, your teams, may bring some very valuable aspects to that as well, but you need a way to get in because you don't have all of the experience that's needed. That's just a relevant example that came up with discussions yesterday and I think it just shows you that co-opetition can bring you into new markets or new places that your company can participate in if you're open to it!
Lori: How do you think the outside world perceives co-opetition?
Kris: Speaking about manufacturers as the target customer group for this conversation, I think they think they're winning when companies come together. I think that when they have a problem and need help, oftentimes, it's very difficult to evaluate and come to one conclusion that this vendor can do it all for us because more times than not they can't because there's a list of requirements, a list of needs and services that need to be provided and maybe the manufacturer doesn't have the experience or the capacity to do it themselves. So they are reaching out to others to help solve the problem and I think that they're going to expect more of that from vendors to be able to come together and collaboratively help them with their solution. I think it makes their job a bit easier because then they don't have to identify one and in the end, they're winning!
Erin: I think it's a good look because it just demonstrates skill and competence. Willingness to engage with your competition means that you understand the value to the customer and that that's your priority. In the conversation I had yesterday, we were talking about the transactional nature of business and how that can lead to a client or a customer feeling like they're just a transaction and not a person or a company. When you bring yourself, your competition, and your co-opetition partner to the relationship, that client knows that the value of what you're bringing is the priority, not just the transaction that you're trying to engage in with them. I also have a great example of just evidence that people love it. I don't know if anybody's on Twitter and has seen this sort of Twitter roasting wars that the fast-food restaurants do each other? First of all, it's hilarious and entertaining, but second of all, I think it's just a good look for all the brands because they are competing in a cooperative way which makes it a win-win for everyone. So I think it's a wise choice when you think about the customer perspective.
Lori: Heading into the future, what do you think will change in relation to competition and co-opetition?
Kris: It feels to me like more and more businesses are getting specialized and as we get specialized and focus on what we do well, we're going to need other organizations to help complement us to solve the big problems that come up in the world. So I think that this isn't going anywhere, in fact, it's going to be something that we're going to continue to see in the future.
Erin: I agree. You've heard of these two big news breakups recently with GE and Johnson and Johnson, these monolithic companies who it's not working out to do at all and be at all. That's sort of the inverse of what we're talking about today where somebody is trying to capture all of it, but it just can't hold. So as Kris mentioned, the specialization becoming the forefront of so many business models is going to drive a need for co-opetition, but then on top of that, we're going to have to develop the skills to do that.
This wraps up our 3-part mini-series. If you are joining us at the tail-end, I highly recommend you take a listen to Part 1 and Part 2. Part 1 we dove into Social Selling and Part 2 we discussed manufacturing and digital transformation. Reach out to Lori if you’re interested more about strategic digital marketing, reach out to Kris if you want to learn more about manufacturing eCommerce solutions, and reach out to Erin if you’re interested in learning more about manufacturing consulting services.
Head to keystoneclick.com/mavens to learn more about your hosts and their exclusive offerings available for Mavens listeners!
Manufacturing Mavens Episode 2: Digital Transformation In The Manufacturing Industry
Today’s episode is Part 2 of our 3-part Manufacturing Mavens - a BROADcast Mini Series. I’ve got 2 guest hosts with me for this mini-series! Kristina (Kris) Harrington and Erin Courtenay. Part 2 is going to be Guest Hosted by Kris Harrington. Kris is the President and COO for GenAlpha Technologies. During her time with OEMs in the mining industry, Kris and the other founders of GenAlpha saw a need to find a better way for B2B manufacturers to do business. This led to the development of Equip, an eCommerce, eCatalog, and Analytics solution for manufacturers and distributors who want to grow their business online. Take it away, Kris!
Kris: Thanks, Lori! Happy to be here. Let’s start this show with a quick introduction to our hosts.
Erin Courtenay is VP of Digital Services at Earthling Interactive. Erin loves watching programmers work their magic, opening up the possibilities of the internet to small and medium businesses with powerful websites and custom software. Calling herself a “digital empathy practitioner”, Erin is determined to help clients move thoughtfully and compassionately into their digital future.
Lori Highby is a podcast host, speaker, educator, and founder of Keystone Click, a strategic digital marketing agency. Using her vast multi-industry knowledge - gained from experience and education, She can see the potential of greatness within the already established good of a business. Through strategic actionable moves, she has worked with Fortune 500 companies such as ABB and Syngenta to micro-business owners, to achieve their marketing goals. Lori carries her energy and drives into her professional engagements in order to empower and educate other fellow life-long learners.
Thank you, mavens, it is such a pleasure to be here with you both today.
As a former leader in a global manufacturing organization responsible for growing equipment and aftermarket sales, and now a leader of a digital eCommerce company, I am often reminded how much things have changed in just the past twenty years. I mean, I can remember when I was so excited to get a Blackberry phone (remember those?) so that when I was traveling to remote mining areas and arrived at my hotel, I wouldn’t have to hook up my laptop to the dial-up hotel internet connection just to check my emails to make sure I didn’t miss anything important before going in to visit my customer the next day. It was so much faster to check them from my Blackberry, and for me, this was roughly 2007.
Fast forward to today, now if a manufacturer were to roll out an eCommerce solution like Equip, if I were still that same sales leader visiting my customer, I would be able to stand next to their machine in the pit and pull up full product bills of materials, identify the products from a 3D interactive drawing, add them to a shopping cart and send them a quotation all from a smartphone or tablet. The customer experience opportunities are incredibly different today for those manufacturers who are ready to make the leap into digital self-service. And this is just one example of the type of digital services available. This takes us to today’s topic - Manufacturing and Digital Transformation where we’re going to talk about manufacturers and their journey toward digital transformation.
Let’s get into it. To set the stage, Erin and Lori, I would like to hear how each of you define digital transformation for the manufacturing industry?
Erin: One thing it always goes back to his business goals. Your business goals should define your approach to digital transformation. In manufacturing, I see a couple of things that define digital transformation. The first is digital transformation as cultural transformation. So opening the business culture to digital tools, be in sales, operations production is a cultural change. And so the digital transformation has an impact on everyone, and how they identify as part of the organization. The next component of digital transformation is maintenance or growth strategy for your business. So tools like eCommerce, ERP, automation are becoming sort of the oxygen of all businesses, and manufacturing is no different. So to breathe, to grow, it can't be ignored, digital transformation is going to be foundational.
Lori: I resonate with everything you said, and especially the cultural component because regardless of any transformation that you are incorporating into your business, you've got to get everyone on board and it's sometimes very challenging to do that if this is the way we've always been doing it for the last 40 years and you're trying to teach an old dog new tricks. I like to compare it to what manufacturing has been doing already with regards to automation, robotics, and creating efficiencies in their business, I think it's no different when you're looking at other segments of the business such as marketing, sales, and the communications and that relationship and that nurturing and it's just taking that transformation or that evolution of what's happening, and applying it to different segments of the business. You mentioned ERP systems, which are taking all elements of your business and combining them into one extremely useful digital tool and resource. But the critical component of that is the adoption of getting all components together and then getting all of the business on board with how to use that component. If you're looking at marketing automation, you need the sales and the marketing team working together on the same page and it's all about maximizing the relationships. COVID taught us real quickly that you can have relationships that aren't in person shaking hands, and that you can still nurture and create new connections.
Kris: I know there have been numerous articles written about this, but I am curious, based on each of your experiences, what do you think are the three most important reasons why manufacturers need to be prioritizing digital transformation?
Lori: It's hard to pick only three. I'll start with something that carries over from the last question, which is that efficiencies are there. Just like in the machines and the equipment at the plants, there are efficiencies in leveraging the digital tools and resources out there. We're all in that marketing and sales side of things, but we really focus on maximizing and shortening that lifecycle and making it easier to have those conversations with your clients or your potential clients. The second one, I would say is this next generation, the current generation is online. That's where your next client is hanging out. They're not going to answer the phone, they're not always going to show up at a trade show because I think trade shows are more of that nurturing opportunity. Using SEO making sure your websites getting found online, leveraging social media to tell your brand story, and creating efficiencies around that is going to help you to continue to find that next client. The third thing that I think is the most important actually out of all these three, is what your customers are expecting. They're expecting to have a conversation on your website using a chat feature, they're expecting to log in to place an order online and just repeat that order and not have to have a conversation or get an instant quote, or whatever it is. If your customers are expecting this, you have to make this transformation.
Erin: My response to three reasons that digital transformation is more of a big picture kind of thought. First is attracting and retaining a workforce. Younger generations, like Lori, pointed out, expect and anticipate a digital forward work environment. If you can't provide that, that's not going to be appealing to younger people. We all have heard about how workforce attraction and retention is a big issue in manufacturing so digital transformation, not only for the functional parts but going back to that cultural idea, demonstrating that your digital forward as a company or as an organization. Next is modernization. I mean, we don't leave our baskets anymore. We're not horse-drawn carriages, we're digital so it's time to get there. Then the last one, I think this is not spoken about enough is pleasure and freedom. I just was in a webinar the other day which talked about the future and technology and what it can do for us. If we can lean more heavily on digital tools to do sort of the mundane things for us, it can open up all these possibilities of creativity, of moving ahead, of offering us time to do the things that we really love and care about, and value. If we're going to get there, that means we all have to participate and contribute to digital transformation, not just wait for it to happen, because then that's something that's happening to us, not something that's happening with us.
Kris: The world is a bit of a crazy place right now, what do you think are some of the biggest challenges manufacturers are facing today that may be preventing them from moving forward with their digital journey?
Erin: This is where I may get a little controversial. I think one of the biggest challenges is rigid industry leadership that is not helping lead us into the next era with digital transformation. I see people like Matt Goose and Eddie Saunders doing much of the heavy lifting. These are folks that are getting young kids excited about manufacturing by meeting them where they are and they are doing that heavy lifting. I'd like to see more of that from industry leadership. So it's a little bit of a prescription and also a diagnosis mixed in together.
Lori: Erin, I just have to say that I love your perspective. My answer is from a bit different perspective in that I think part of the challenge is that to some extent, it's cluttered. There's a lot of information coming from a lot of different directions and you don't know where to start. I think there's also this fear of the unknown because it can be a big investment. I know that these manufacturing organizations, when they invest in a new piece of machinery, they have so much confidence that it's going to produce a certain volume of new business for them, and they can get so much work done. But when they're making this investment into this unknown territory, where they don't have their historical references for themselves to have confidence on how it's going to improve their business, they're really just trusting kind of someone else's opinions, but there are opinions on all different spectrums and there are all different ways to tackle this. So I think that's where there's a lot of hesitation and reservation to move forward.
Kris: If you could offer one piece of advice on how digital can help solve the challenges preventing companies from moving forward, what would it be?
Lori: To solve the problem based on how I answered the last question, I would say manufacturers need to start having the conversations with those that are doing it right now and start asking some intelligent questions to build their confidence and really just get that conversation going, which is what we're doing right now. They have to have true curiosity into this topic in order to have any movement going forward and helping them solve some of these bigger issues where digital can do so much and solve so many problems. Yeah, it is a time and financial investment on the front end, but the long end return significantly outweighs any current hurdles that someone may be having right now. So my very simple answer is to start talking about it and start asking questions.
Erin: A challenge that keeps folks from moving forward and I think I'm going to name that challenge as thinking that you're locked in a rigid mindset. Whether that's before you get started with the technology, or you might even be mid-technology and so that brings to mind this example of somebody that we worked with. They had a transportation management system platform that they were using and it just kept not being the right solution for them. Over and over again, they were running into roadblocks and barriers and they asked us how we could help them. We suggested to them that they should make their own because it could fit their needs and might even save them money. They decided to try it and not only did they save money, but they also ended up making six figures from that platform, because they were able to then sort of rent it out to some other folks as well. So just knowing that one of the great things about digital transformation is flexibility is the ability to name your own solution. It can be daunting, I totally get it, but if you keep that in mind, that you should ask for what you want, you should know what you want and ask for it and not be let alone by the no's, that will help you really move forward.
Kris: What services do each of you offer that support the manufacturing industry?
Erin: At Earthling Interactive, we do take that consultative approach. Yes, can seem off-putting at first, but what that allows us to do is though, is we are adept at starting where you are, where our clients are. For example, so many manufacturing websites are, frankly terrible, and they're out of date. But you can actually accomplish a lot with just a website refresh, and not just because of how it looks, but it can function and be a very powerful tool for you and your business. We can start there, let's just get you a new website. But we're also great at modifications and fixes. For example, if you're running a technology that's falling short of your expectations, like that example that I mentioned before with the TMS system, or let's say you've got a time tracking system that isn't conforming to your business model, we can help it get there, we can help do those tweaks in those modifications so that you have a tool that really works with your business, and helps you accomplish your goals.
Lori: At Keystone Click, we brand ourselves as a strategic digital marketing agency. What we're doing is really focusing on our clients' customers. So you the manufacturer, you're trying to get new customers, and we get inside the head of your customer and really figure out what is that customer journey? What is the pain that they initially have? How are they searching for that pain? Because people don't know what the solution is the right way they know what the challenge is that they're facing. Then how do we position you and tell your brand story in the digital space so that you are positioned as the expert to solve the problem that they have? We do that by conducting research on your customer and then building a full strategic plan that's focused on helping you achieve your business goals. Then we support the implementation and we do websites as well. We manage your social paid initiatives, and really anything under that digital umbrella with your business end goal in mind. What about you, Kris?
Kris: I think the best way to describe what the Gen Alpha team does is really equip manufacturers and distributors with the tools, services, and advice that they need to sell their products online. So we come with real-world experience, the founding members of Gen Alpha all worked in manufacturing and we truly believe that there was an easier way of doing business with a manufacturer. So we've been in the shoes of our customers, trying to satisfy their customers and grow business at the same time. We believe that in coordination with our clients. We keep building upon our already solid foundation of helping them to keep delivering better solutions year after year. So we truly love working with the manufacturing industry and we want these people to be relevant and successful in the future. I think what I would say about all of us and all of our companies is that we do care so much. If you were to work with any one of us, you're going to have a trusted relationship where we're going, to be honest with you about your business, how we believe we can help you, we're going to offer you alternative solutions, but the true intention around everything we're doing is for the greater good.
Thank you for listening to part 2 of our 3-part series. If you’ve enjoyed what you heard, definitely chime in for part 3, and if you didn’t get a chance to listen to Part 1 - you’ll want to take a listen as we dove into Social Selling. In Part 3 we will be talking about co-opetition vs competition. Reach out to Lori if you’re interested more about strategic digital marketing, reach out to Kris if you want to learn more about manufacturing eCommerce solutions, and reach out to Erin if you’re interested in learning more about manufacturing consulting services.
Head to keystoneclick.com/mavens to learn more about your hosts and their exclusive offerings available for Mavens listeners!
Social Selling In Manufacturing
Today’s episode is Part 1 of our 3-part Manufacturing Mavens - a BROADcast Mini Series. I’ve got 2 guest hosts with me for this mini-series! Kristina (Kris) Harrington and Erin Courtenay. Part 1 is going to be Guest Hosted by Erin Courtenay.
Erin Courtenay is VP of Digital Services at Earthling Interactive. Erin loves watching programmers work their magic, opening up the possibilities of the internet to small and medium businesses with powerful websites and custom software. Calling herself a “digital empathy practitioner”, Erin is determined to help clients move thoughtfully and compassionately into their digital future.
Erin: Let’s start this show with a quick introduction to our hosts.
Kris Harrington is the President and COO for GenAlpha Technologies. During her time with OEMs in the mining industry, Kris and the other founders of GenAlpha saw a need to find a better way for B2B manufacturers to do business. This led to the development of Equip, an eCommerce, eCatalog, and Analytics solution for manufacturers and distributors who want to grow their business online.
Lori Highby is a podcast host, speaker, educator, and founder of Keystone Click, a strategic digital marketing agency. Using her vast multi-industry knowledge - gained from experience and education, She has the ability to see the potential of greatness within the already established good of a business. Through strategic actionable moves, she has worked with Fortune 500 companies such as ABB and Syngenta to micro-business owners, to achieve their marketing goals. Lori carries her energy and drives into her professional engagements to empower and educate other fellow life-long learners.
I’m super excited about today’s topic because social selling is really what brought the three of us together. Kris and I have been guests on Sam Gupta’s awesome eCommerce LinkedIn Live panel. That’s how we got to know each other and now we’ve become good friends. Lori, this podcast has been a favorite for a long time and I’ve really gotten to know you through your wonderful content. Together we’ve all utilized content and digital platforms to build relationships. We are able to move our prospects through the funnel in a way that is warm, genuine, and provides value - even though it all takes place online. That’s the beauty of social selling.
But social selling isn’t just about content and friendships, all social networks exist to provide content and relationships - the key part here is business development. Successful sales have always been inherently social, because as our friend Greg Mischio reminds us (frequently!) your prospects must know you, like you, and trust you to move forward with the sale.
The pandemic era obviously drove a lot of selling online, both in B2B and B2C. As a result, so many more sales professionals are using the tools of social sales like LinkedIn, podcasting, video-sharing, and CRM-related applications. So there’s the social side, which I think all sales professionals are naturally gifted at, but the technical side can be a bit of a head-scratcher - so that’s what I’d like us to focus on a bit today. Sound good Ladies?
Lori: We’re ready!
Erin: How do you guys use LinkedIn as a social selling tool? I mean, beyond the obvious - what are some of your special tips and tricks. Next, tell us about one other tool you use and why you think it is great.
Lori: Probably because I spend hours on it on a daily basis, actually, and people are surprised when they hear me say that. The first thing you want to look at on your LinkedIn is optimizing your profile. I know you both understand that word optimizing, but not everyone that is listening really understands what that means. It's just making sure that when someone is searching for something that you're the one that shows up as a resource. We've heard of optimizing your website for Google, it's the same philosophy and concept with LinkedIn so that when someone looks at your profile, they realize what your true expertise is. Oftentimes, people think a LinkedIn profile should be structured like your resume and that's actually wrong. It's a beautiful place to tell your story and showcase what you want to be known for, and help put some perspective in other people's eyes on your expertise, but also to be found for your expertise as well. So start with your profile first and then you have to look at creating connections. When I'm looking at the connections, I'm genuinely looking to create relationships, but also to be a resource. I've gotten to the level where I have a follow button, and not just a connect button, which is a fun space to be. But it's all about adding value, and not selling. I know we've talked about this before that social media is about being social, the selling is something that happens after the fact because you've created that relationship, you've established trust, and people are comfortable because you've provided so much information of value that then they're interested in having that conversation of potentially creating a business relationship. One of my favorite tips is when someone reaches out and connects with me that I do not know, I have a two-part question that I respond back with them. My first question is, what is it about my profile that intrigued you to want to connect with me? And the second question is, how can I best be a resource to you on LinkedIn? That then starts a conversation and it also easily identifies those who are going direct for the sales pitch that I'm not interested in actually fostering a relationship with. But it's really fascinating because sometimes people connect without saying a reason why, but they're actually interested in doing business with you. You'd be surprised how many people when I asked that question are like, "Oh, we're actually looking for a marketing company right now and I was interested in talking more." So they sent me a connection request, but then open with the ask, but I had initiated the conversation to do that. So I think it's a really powerful way to start that conversation when someone is reaching out to you.
Kris: What I do on LinkedIn is, I'm really using it to deepen a relationship with the connections that I may have just made. So if we just did a demo with a new company and there were new participants in the demonstration that I haven't met before, I might connect with them on LinkedIn to deepen that relationship. At the trade show, I was just recently at, there were a lot of people that I'm connecting with, that I already formed personal connections with and now I want to deepen that relationship. I'm not necessarily lead looking to sell, I'm looking to have that connection because my whole goal on LinkedIn is to share content that is of value. I would say that my biggest trick is just to be authentic. Sometimes it's challenging when you're in a place where there are professionals so you want to have that professional face, but in reality, you want people to get to know you and who you are. It's the challenge of being authentic to who you are, who your company is, and how you want people to understand how you can be helpful and useful. So that's really what I'm using LinkedIn for. Now, when it comes to some other social platforms, we have tried Twitter, and we've tried Facebook, but we find that those are really more personal, at least in the space that we're in. We're sharing information, but we're just not connecting with people as much on those platforms today as others.
Erin: One of my biggest challenges in social selling is tracking and accountability metrics. Digital behaviors are inherently trackable but I still find myself struggling to put together a useful dashboard of behaviors and outcomes. What are one or two of your most useful tracking methods?
Kris: Overall, any metrics related to marketing, I think are a little difficult for our organization to understand when they're working because we have a long sales cycle. But I will tell you the two metrics that I've found that will lead to conversions is we're really tracking our followers and we're watching the growth of our followers. That's really important because I hope that it means that people connected with something that we're doing enough to say, "I'm going to follow what they're doing and keep an eye on them." That gives us an opportunity when we're sharing great content that we're going to potentially come up in their feed and then they're going to look at us a bit further or at least read what we might be sharing or listen to the videos that we might be publishing. The other metric that we look at a lot is website sessions. So when people go from social media to our website, which is where we would hope that they would go if they're interested in learning more about Gen Alpha, or engaging with more content, because we have a lot more content on our website than we do on social media. So if we can get people to follow us and they start to see us repeatedly in their space, understanding their industry, what they do, if we're being useful, and then they move to the website and they continue to resonate with the materials that we're giving them, there's that potential that hopefully, they'll engage with us in some other way. Those are two that we've been really following. We have a lot of metrics and probably similar to both of you, we don't always know which ones are the best. But those two for us are indicators.
Lori: I could probably resonate with Kris on what we're doing for ourselves is still a little bit of a mystery. Moreso, because I'm not the one looking at it, I've got a team behind me. But I can tell you what I talk about from an educational standpoint when we talk to our clients and when I'm out there speaking about measuring your ROI. What's very important, I think this is one of the biggest things that people don't get clear on is what is the goal that they're trying to achieve? There's so much data out there on the internet that you can get analysis paralysis because you're just kind of staring at it and you don't know if this is valuable or not valuable. So when I was teaching at the university, there were the three A's that I would look at. One is attainable which asks if the data that you're trying to capture is easy to get? Is it easy to analyze and then can you take action on it, why are you going to look at data that you can't even take action on? Is it going to tell you a story that's going to say, we're on the right track or the wrong track? Going back to what is it that you're trying to achieve and then figure out what is the tactics that we're putting in place to achieve this goal, and then align your measurements with those specific tactics. That's going to help you get clear on is this data actionable? Those are easy for the hard numbers, which are cost, profit revenue, the size of your pipeline. The hard analytics are actually what we refer to as the soft numbers. Those show that people know you, like you, and trust you, that you've increased engagement, that you have customer loyalty, that you're building relationships and rapport. That's what we're all trying to do in the digital space, but it's really hard to measure. There is no easy way to do that, but a couple of things that we look at from a brand awareness standpoint are if you have an increase in your website traffic, that means new visitors. Customer loyalty, then you're looking at repeat visitors or does your email subscriber list grow because people want to hear from you? Lead generation is an easy one, do you have more conversions on your forms or not? So it's just really taking a look at what is it that you're trying to achieve and what data points are going to be helpful and telling you if you're on the right track or the wrong track?
Erin: Many of our listeners are probably in B2B sales, most likely in manufacturing and industry. We’ll be talking about digital transformation in an upcoming episode, but I’d like to touch on the topic of transitioning from a heavily trade-show, site visit-oriented sales strategy to incorporating more digital social selling techniques. Do you have any stories from the field of where this has gone well and where it has maybe not yet quite penetrated?
Kris: So I shared with you that I do think trade shows still have a lot of value for having that personal touch. But of course, we haven't had trade shows for the last 18 months and they're just kind of coming back. But I think it's taught us that there are other ways to connect with people as well. So I do think all of the social opportunities are really important. What we found can be helpful is sending a message through LinkedIn, because often, and I do think this is true, I mean, it's been 10 years since I worked as a manufacturer. But when I was a manufacturer, I was very busy with my job and I was not hanging out on LinkedIn like I am today as a vendor or service provider to a manufacturer. To even get their attention, I like the trigger of the message because if they have their notifications turned on that message typically will send them an email or some notification, and then there's a stronger likelihood that they're going to read it. So then they've been brought there and now we can at least have a conversation or deepen that relationship like I talked about earlier. The second thing that we've been doing is inviting people to follow us and that's how we've grown our followers. That simple invitation just to ask if they want to learn more industry-related content to follow up on LinkedIn is going to help. From doing that, each month, our followers are increasing. So the simple ask, which is something we just started doing, I would say five months ago, we've been building the followers every month thereafter. Now I will say that the actual conversation from social is slower to achieve. Even if they've accepted the connection request, and they followed us, it does not mean that they're ready for a conversation. So anybody out there, don't expect that that's going to happen quickly. Most people aren't ready yet to have that conversation, they still want to learn about you and your company, and that's where hopefully you get to really shine. They establish that connection with you over time and when they're ready, they will reach out to you. So the actual physical conversation takes a bit more time.
Lori: I love what Kris said about first creating the ask because so many people forget to do that snd that's the most important part. Everyone is running around crazy and has shiny objects in every direction so the simple ask to follow us is actually extremely beneficial, because they may have wanted to do that, but just forgot. So sometimes as the asker, just tell, go follow us. It's extremely powerful, but yet so simple and so many people are missing that opportunity. But what you're talking about, Kris is really what's changed in the whole selling process, actually, and the experience of, I'm going to meet you for the first time at a trade show, and you came to my booth because there was something that intrigued you and then we're going to start a conversation because you're really interested in that. But now what's happening, and I like to relate it to the old school newspaper about how every single newspaper had car ads in it every single week. The reason is that the car salespeople want to make sure that when you are ready to buy, their brand is in front of you. It’s the same thing with what's happening in the b2b, social selling space. It's not that I'm going to be a hard sales pitch, I'm going to constantly be knocking on your door, rather, I'm going to continue to be top of mind, and continue to provide valuable information and showcase my expertise so that when the time is ready, that you want to buy, or at least start that conversation, I've already proven myself so we're further along in the sales process than if we just had that conversation at that tradeshow booth because we've already done all of the information of proving expertise, and providing value. I've experienced this, and I've seen some of our clients experienced this and it's just fascinating to see. I'm going in thinking it's a discovery call, and I'm doing all my homework and they're like, "We're ready, tell us where to sign," and my mind just gets blown. It goes back to what Kris said about making sure that you have the right people following you and telling the people that you want to be learning from you following you so that you are establishing that trust so that when they are ready to buy, there's no doubt in their mind who they're reaching out to.
Erin: You can’t talk about social selling without also talking about content. Lori, this is your wheelhouse, and Kris, you’ve demonstrated a mastery of content production. Why do you think content is so important to social selling and how can our listeners up their content game?
Kris: We had decided that content would be an opportunity to share our thought leadership in the space. I do think that I think very simply, and I try to write very simply as well, I'm not trying to sound smart, just share my experience, and hopefully, that becomes the most useful. But the way we've been able to publish so much content is that we decided that we wanted to increase our brand awareness and lead generation, and we were going to do that through content. So what we did is we set goals on the amount of content that we would create each month, the number of posts that we would put on LinkedIn, the number of articles we would write, the number of blogs, the number of articles we would submit to publications and hope that they share for us as well, and video creation. So even if it's snippets of me participating with somebody else, we have accounts, and we're going to achieve that. What's happened is it's forced us to research, to explore different topics, to share our experiences, and for me, it's forced me to say yes to a lot of things that historically I probably would not have done because it would be outside my comfort zone. We really thought that this was important because if we were going to increase our brand awareness, people had to know how our employees thought about how we could help other manufacturers. I learned from my team, from our customer experiences, and then, of course, I have my own life experiences. So combining all of that together goes into that creation process and that's really how we've been able to do it. I have to tell you, we started it in 2020. We've been in business for 10 years and for eight of those years, we really did no marketing, it was word of mouth. Of course, we had a website, but we weren't trying to drive people to it, but in 2020, we sat down, we wrote our goals, and we have been achieving them consistently since. Thankfully, we had done that because the pandemic would have forced us to go there anyway. But then we already had a plan, we were already in the middle of it and we just kept going.
Lori: For me, it's all about building a plan and I really liked that Kris and her team fleshed out the plan and defined some clear goals because at the end of the day, if you're just making assumptions, and just randomly throwing stuff out there, the location, the message, you don't know if it's actually going to be doing its job and serving its purpose. When it comes to...
Meet Scott
Scott has spent the past 35 years working in the financial services industry. In his career, Scott has been fortunate to work with consumers and small businesses in several capacities and has worked closely with businesses that have been successful as well as businesses that had to close shop. He's listened to the owners talk about what worked, what didn't, and what they wish they would have done.
How has your experience led to where you are today?
I've had to do a lot of research on companies and a lot of internet searches. I've worked closely with friends and family that are business owners and we've gone through this process. We realize a lot of their struggles have been just trying to connect with people and trying to find information. So many of them don't have resources that I for example have because, in my capacity at the bank, I've gotten to know accounts, I've gotten to know attorneys and all the support services where that makes me a little bit different than a lot of small businesses that don't have those resources, and they don't know where to go to find them. As we talk to more and more people about this, including customers and friends, we learned that they do need a resource. If you go to a Google search, a billion results will show up and it's really easy for that small business owner to get buried in the back pages of a search. But then they get frustrated when they're looking for somebody so that led us to build the one search direct platform.
Can you tell us a bit more about the platform?
The way the platform's designed, you set it up right now, where there are four primary areas. The first one is called a need where I'm looking for something and I can go to the website, I take what we're calling specialty news which is simply what somebody does. If I'm looking for marketing, I type that in, I type a brief description, and then hit send. What that does is it goes to the site and it will look for other people that are involved in marketing in my geographic area and that person if they're signed up on the platform, will automatically get the second tab, which is called the lead. So it's a way for a user to connect directly with one another on a topic that's a common interest between the both of them, and they don't have to do an internet search. There are no search results, you remain totally anonymous so that if I search for marketing I don't get hit with a bunch of phone calls or emails from marketing companies looking to reach out to me. So those are the first two primary tabs that we have on our platform right now. The next one is called an offer. So let's say if you as a marketing person wants to offer a free website inspection for prospective customers, you could actually do that to the platform. So you could go out there, do a brief overview of what you're looking for, and when you submit that offer it will go out to any users on the platform that says they're looking for marketing tips. But it's a great way to promote yourself. On the other side of that, as someone that would receive that, it's a great way to find only the things that I'm looking for which is exactly what the platform is designed to do. I can take marketing, and I would get that offer right away. Then the last tab is our Articles tab so when you talk in the intro about your tips, this is a way for you to send tips directly to people. It is very similar to the Offers tab, the biggest difference is that the offers have an expiration date, where articles would stay out there until you remove them. So there are four primary tabs and we felt that those were the ways that businesses at this point communicate most often so.
Over the past seven years, what have you learned about all this?
My biggest experience was going from someone who had to listen to other business owners talk about what they need to actually be someone that has experienced it. At one point, I needed to find some developers and that was an area that I had to go out and do some research on. So it made me realize that there is just a lot of legwork for the small business owner. But it also made me realize that there's a lot of areas that we hadn't even thought about initially. In fact, one of my friends told me early on that I should be prepared for this to go in a direction I never planned it to. As we started developing this more and more, the initial concept was built around helping community banks. It's now going from small businesses to freelancers, especially, let's say over the last 18 months with the impact of the pandemic so many more small businesses have popped up as a necessity. So it's really kind of taken off and has expanded a bit more into those areas. Again, there's a lot of competition out there right now, and hopefully, we can help people connect directly with one another and save some time.
So what's next for you here?
Well, right now the study is up and running and we're in the process of growing it. But before we got to that point, as we're developing it, we also have a series of several enhancements that we planned. We plan to create a focus group or user panel that will actually help us by looking at the enhancements we have planned. They're very industry-specific. So marketing ultimately will look a little bit different than let's say insurance. So we have the panel set for the first group and they will help us identify what's important, and give us some direction in terms of what's most important to be able to prioritize things so that we're focusing on what the end-user wants. We are looking at this as that end user will actually be considered more of our board of directors because we really want to listen to them in terms of where we go from here, as opposed to just doing things arbitrarily and putting something off that no one has an interest in.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
There's been quite a few actually because, for the longest time, I was a sales rep for a bank. I never really was into going to the formal meetings, I enjoy going to different outings like golf outings, or things of that nature, and just trying to make a point of meeting as many people as I can. Because to me, a lot of those people were the ones that I would be doing business with. So I think that was probably the most successful for me and I started to enjoy more of the relaxed type functions versus some of the more structured ones.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture the relationships you’ve created?
On LinkedIn right now, I think I have 23,000 followers. So what we're doing is we're continually putting regular posts out there. I try to get in contact with my customers whenever possible. I'm not necessarily a believer in banks where they tell you to meet your customer once every six months or so. Whenever possible, I will do that if I come across articles or something I think would be beneficial to a customer, I make an effort to get those into their hands. So you look for different and creative ways to get in front of them and make those experiences as memorable as possible.
What advice would you offer to the business professional who is looking to grow their network?
Step outside your comfort zone, try something you haven't done before. I can guess one of the challenges we face with the platform is just looking at things that we never thought possible. So, again, I think you just have to step outside of your comfort zone and don't be afraid to make a mistake.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
Honestly, I don't believe in doing something different just because I think that's why I'm at where I'm at, and I'm okay with that. I think I would have been more aggressive in going after some different jobs. I would tell myself to not be afraid to take risks because I was afraid to take those risks early on and that would have been the one thing I would do differently.
I understand you have an offer to share with our listeners?
Yes! What we would like to offer is a seven-day free trial for the website and then after that, we're going to offer 12 months for $99. If you have questions, and you want to reach out to me, you can go to our website, https://onesourcedirect.net/ and then you can read information, you can see our short demo videos and I'd be more than happy to talk to you to discuss how to use the first seven days in terms of taking those articles are marketing tips that use regularly, and getting them on to the website so that you can get out there and help yourself get in front of as many people as you can
Connect with Scott
Website: https://onesourcedirect.net/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-e-lebeau-826a0512/
Meet Tatyana
Tatyana St. Germain is the founder and CEO of Great People Management, a consulting firm located in Kenosha, WI, serving clients nationwide. They offer leadership coaching, hiring and development assessments, talent optimization tools, and talent management consulting. Tatyana is an expert at understanding and solving complex people challenges in the workplace and helped over 1000 clients worldwide select, retain and develop the right people who get results and smash the competition.
How can companies improve their chances of hiring productive employees?
The biggest challenge I'm finding with my clients and with conversations I'm having in my business network is actually finding people. That's the biggest challenge and that's probably a whole separate conversation. But once you have a candidate, if you're lucky you may have a couple of candidates, the best way to ensure that they're productive is to look for job fit and look for culture fit. This is where some of those resources out there can really help and one of those resources is predictive assessment tools that companies can use to help them understand their people. These assessment tools are not designed to screen people out because what I'm hearing right now is, "Tatyana, we don't even have any people apply, how can we talk about screening people out or using any kind of tool for job matching?" Well, it's really to ensure the productivity, engagement, and long-term retention of the employee. That's the information that the assessment tools give you. So don't skip that step, the vetting step, and do the due diligence on the front end when you're hiring employees, even if you just have one to choose from.
What can managers do to keep their employees?
Once you get somebody in place, and congratulations if you hired a warm body, the next question is now what? How do I ensure that I have a productive onboarding experience to engage them? It starts with understanding what people really care about. Your onboarding and your retention start with the interview process. You want to make sure that you understand your employees, ask deep, meaningful questions and then once they are on board, you have everything in place for them. Obviously, the benefits, their desk, their computer ready, and all the logins, but also the next step is building a deeper relationship with the team. One of my clients shared a great success story that he incorporated those assessment tools in the onboarding process, generating a team report that shares with each team member what their differences and similarities are, what their talents and challenges are, and having maybe a 90-minute conversation with a new team member over lunch is going to help the new team member to ask some questions, maybe laugh about some of the quirks and personality that other members on the team have. Most importantly, focus on the talent. We're all behaviorally diverse when we're working on the same team and the key here is to complement each other instead of perceiving our differences as difficulties, which is how we are wired psychologically to be, that's the knee-jerk reaction. When we meet new people there's a lot of uncertainty and that creates that wall and engages fear factors in the brain that shuts down the rational brain. So it takes multiple months, and sometimes years to get to know your co-workers to build a productive relationship. But utilizing assessment tools, you are actually able to build that relationship within the first week and that's what my client shared. It's feasible that you can squeeze your onboarding, the length of onboarding from months, to just weeks. Bringing onboarding into the conversation about retention starts to build loyalty and connectedness. This is what people care about. Yes, they do care about bonuses and compensation and benefits packages that are being revamped right now with many organizations. But with those tactical transactional items, you can only go so far. Frankly, smaller companies can't even afford all those benefits in compensation packages. So it's about relationships.
Why are you so passionate about helping companies solve their "people problems"?
When I got introduced to the assessment industry, my former boss and mentor brought me into the second interview and he showed me my scores, and not knowing what I was looking at because I didn't know anything about assessments at that time, I was kind of mortified because one of the behavioral traits that were assessed was attitude. And on a scale of 1 to 10 I was a 1 so I automatically assumed 1 is bad, 10 is good and why am I even here? Then he pulled up his report and show that he's a 10 so we're polar opposites when it comes to outlook on life and people and trust. Then he said in the small office of seven people, all of us are over six on a scale from one to 10, and me being the leader of the team I'm concerned that I'm so optimistic that I might lead this team right off the cliff thinking and hoping there's an invisible bridge so if nothing else, we actually want you on our team, we want you to ask questions, we want you to be our anchor. So this skeptical attitude that I've carried through throughout my life, and I've always thought it was a burden, it was a negative thing about who I was, all of a sudden became an asset. It's about how you look at it. It's about how you channel your strengths and mitigate your challenges and we have both, we all have that. Finding a position where you can channel even some of the adversity that you may have about your personality into a positive area that's what builds loyalty. This is what makes people go the extra mile and that's what it did for me. It was amazing, I was given permission to be myself. In fact, I was valued for who I was not even my contributions, because he didn't know what I could do at that point. It was just the interview, but my potential, and how I would interact and complement the team. So I was given permission to be myself on the job and needless to say, case, in point, I am still in this industry. This was so life-changing for me personally, and I thought if I could do this for other people, individual people, or the leaders, business owners, and entire organizations because it is such a scalable process. You can apply it to everyone and I worked with companies from five employees to 55,000. If you can give this kind of information and put people in positions according to their talents, according to their potential, where their contributions in their innate talents would be valued, how much better our decisions would be, how much better our productivity and engagement would be, and would people really be leaving companies? That's my question, if all companies were using and had the same experience as I did would people be leaving? This year was rough for everyone, but it never crossed my mind to get out of the business or change careers.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
First of all, when we network, you never know who you're going to meet and who you might end up getting connected to. Some of the best referrals come from unlikely sources. I learned that early on so I don't ignore any opportunity to network. I had great experiences with a variety of networking organizations. Right now I'm working with an amazing content writer who's located in the UK. I got introduced to her probably three years ago and there was one person who introduced me to another person. So this is probably a fourth-level connection and she's amazing. So whether you get connected to resources or potential clients, I never discount the power of networking and then building credibility through your network as well.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture the relationships you’ve created?
You have to think on purpose about the people in your network. What I mean by that is knowing what they care about, what they're looking for in terms of business if this is a business relationship, continuously look for opportunities, and train your ear to listen for them. For example, yesterday, I had a lunch meeting with one of the people in my network who just purchased a new business. He gave me a tour of the facility, we had lunch and it was lovely, but towards the end of the conversation. He mentioned something about benefits. My ears perked up because I've been listening for those clues and I mentioned one of my network partners who do benefits. So I will be connecting them today, making that soft, warm introduction. So I think that's probably the most important thing and it's not quid pro quo, it's really about being generous and being passionate about connecting people to people and connecting people to resources. It's not about what you get back, it's about what you can give. When you have that outlook, you're going to be able to hear more of those opportunities and connect people to those resources.
What advice would you offer to the business professional who is looking to grow their network?
I've done all kinds of things, starting with trade shows. I've done a lot of those early on in my assessment career, and coaching career. That's basically collecting business cards and building the list and then doing email marketing. But I would say in the last 10 years, LinkedIn has been a keystone for all of my networking. People are willing to connect and people are willing to listen. I would say get on LinkedIn spend and I can recommend a couple of people who help you maximize the value of LinkedIn, how to connect with people, get the Premium Package, spend whatever you need to spend to invest in building the network. But I think that's been the best one. It's amazing how responsive people are even if you just ask a question. You can build a group, you can have a webinar, you can do all sorts of things. The sky's the limit!
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
Growing up in the Soviet Union, there's kind of the power of necessity that drove me always. So I never remember myself not striving to do more. So first, it was getting myself out of that country with education, working hard, and not passing up opportunities, and I've taken on some crazy opportunities. I would say when opportunities knock, do not pass them up because then you always wonder what if. I'm happy to say that, and whether it's because of who I am, or the power of necessity because I was really driven to succeed and build a better life for myself and for my future children I did that and I would always say to take risks in the early years.
I understand you have a free assessment to share with our listeners?
Yes, so I do offer a couple of different assessments because I believe that every organization and every situation is unique so one size does not fit all. But one of the flagship assessments that I use is the PXT Select tool that is developed and validated by Wiley and Sons. They also provide assessments such as 5 behaviors of a cohesive team, in addition to the PXT Select. So I've sourced this one and I've used this for the past 17 years. I find that it is most predictive, most robust and sophisticated, and most importantly to me, it is valid and reliable. So I'm all about the numbers and the technical manual. But I wanted to offer this assessment to the listeners and it takes about 45 minutes to complete and then it would be maybe an hour of a debrief so we can chat about insights that they can get out of the reports, to improve their leadership skills, understand their strengths, understand some of the challenges that they may be experiencing, and how to mitigate those and become more self-aware, because the journey of improvement starts with self-awareness. You can't get to point B without knowing your point A so the PXT Select is point A and I would love to offer that to more people out there.
Connect with Tatyana
Contact Tatyana to schedule your assessment! https://greatpeoplemanagement.com/contact/
Email: tatyana@greatpeoplewin.com
Meet Mayra
Marya Wilson, PhD is the Principal and Organizational Dietician for MW Advising.
Marya has an extensive business and industry career in the areas of manufacturing, information management, telecommunications, ISP, and the semiconductor industries of the Silicon Valley, CA at the companies 3M, Imation, and Pentagon Technologies, and various others.
She is also the Director of the Leadership Institute and an Assistant Professor at the University of Wisconsin-Stout. She teaches in the areas of organizational leadership and behavior, operations management, quality management, training and development, and sustainable management. Her research interests include psychological contracts, trust and emotions in the workplace, and organizational exit. Her current research involves the understanding of the lived experience for professionals who are pushed out of their careers.
Marya serves the manufacturing, service, higher education, non-profit, and government sectors. She brings not only first-hand knowledge to the learning experience but also a clear understanding of the underlying emotional processes that drive behaviors and create individual and team success. She has a BA in Psychology, MS in Management Technology, MA in Human Development, and a PhD in Human and Organizational Systems.
Why is trust so important to the success of an organization?
So along with my entrepreneurial endeavors, I also teach at The University of Wisconsin Stout so I have a pretty extensive research background as well. The research that I get into is in organizational exit. So why are people leaving organizations? Usually, I get a sort of that "Duh'' look because most people think they know why people leave, but there's so much more to it. It's so important for organizations to really understand why people are leaving, especially their high performers. Pretty much the number one reason that people leave their organizations is because there's a betrayal of trust. There's this trust factor that is so important in organizations and so one of the things that I do is work with leaders and work with organizations to strengthen that trust between the individuals of the organization as well as the leaders and their organizations. Losing people isn't just a financial hardship, it's a really big hit on morale and the overall organizational culture. The last thing any organization wants is to hit that toxic realm and it's easy to do when we're not paying attention to trust and not paying attention to those relationships that are part of that organization. Yeah, we've got a job to do, there's no doubt about it. We've got things to do, we've got expectations to meet, we've got goals to meet, we have customer expectations, but that relationship side of the organization is as important as getting the job done, sometimes I'm fairly certain it's a little more important. So trust is a big factor and it's one of the things that I love to talk about and love to continue to research too.
Is organizational trust the same in face-to-face and remote work environments?
March 2020 was one of the most disruptive changes we've seen in almost 100 years. The definition that I use for trust is an individual's belief and willingness to act on someone's actions, decisions, and words. The truth of the matter is that there's no difference between that face-to-face and in the remote or the virtual. It's all in our actions, it's all in what we say, it's all in how we interact. Is it different? Of course, face-to-face is much richer, you can see the nonverbals, you can see body language, you can see those facial expressions. There's just so much there that you can see that you can't necessarily see in a virtual or remote environment. But one of the things that have been interesting the last couple of years is listening to leaders go, "We need everybody back and we need them back now because we don't have good relationships anymore." So I'll ask them why that is and they'll say, "Well, people can't see each other," and I thought, "Okay, but you're doing these great video meetings, you're doing these great virtual events so why do you have to necessarily be in the same room in order to build a relationship?" And you don't. It's different, but there's so much that we can glean in a virtual setting. I mean, look at us. We're doing this podcast, I can't see you, but I can hear your voice and so we can build a relationship that way. So is it different? Yes, but the tenants are the same. Building trust, being able to believe and act on someone's words, actions, and decisions. It's the same thing in a remote or virtual environment as it would be in a face-to-face. What I would say as well, is that it falls on us to be more cognizant of it. When you're face to face, I don't want to say it's easy, but in some ways it is. We've been face to face for so long that we haven't really learned how to do that trust-building and relationship building when we're not face to face. So it's really pushed a lot of people out of their comfort zone so it's been interesting to watch over the last couple of years. I will say that the companies and clients that I work with that are successful at this trust-building approach and relationship-building approach make time to connect. It doesn't have to be on a video call, it could just be a phone call, it's about the connection.
Do you think that some companies and employers are overthinking this?
Honestly, I don't think they're thinking about it enough! Think about this: We were going through this massive disruptive change, which is extremely scary. Any change, positive or negative creates uncertainty and uncertainty creates fear. If we don't pay attention to it, that fear will create chaos. So the great thing about communication is the ability to keep people in the loop. It shows respect, it puts accountability there. Communication builds trust. People may not like what you have to say, but the fact that you're telling them shows a level of respect that you're being transparent about what's going on. What I'm seeing right now is that there's a level of fear. Let's just take manufacturers in Wisconsin, I just did a panel discussion with a couple of different manufacturers in the state and what we discovered is that we have a lot of leaders of organizations that are very scared and they're trying to survive. The supply chain has been massively disrupted so our leaders are fearful which is understandable. But what happens is when people become afraid, that's when the chaos ensues so when I'm saying that they're not thinking about this enough, our leaders are kind of getting caught up in their own ego. I don't mean that to belittle anybody, it's actually a normal human reaction. But in leadership, we need to really think about how in uncertain and fearful environments, that communication is absolutely crucial. It needs to be regular, and it needs to be thought about, and it needs to be at the forefront because that's what helps get people through uncertainty.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
I think some of the more fun ones have been the ones that I wasn't even planning. This is from my days in the Silicon Valley, I was actually laid off from a job. So I'm driving around and I stop off because traffic was horrendous and just stopped off. There was a restaurant near one of our clients at the time which was Intel. So I stopped off and tried to let traffic die down. I'm sitting at the bar, and just having conversations with people and the gentleman sitting next to me was about to become my future CEO. It's that conversation, just connecting and those kinds of things. Those are the things that you don't plan for, the stuff that I plan for probably the most fun that I have is LinkedIn right now. I have met some of the most amazing people on LinkedIn. I met my business partner on a goof, she read one of my blogs, we connected on LinkedIn and now we're business partners even though she's in Europe and I'm here in the States!
How do you stay in front of and best nurture the relationships you’ve created?
There are a lot of different things I do. I work hard to even just send short messages like, "I haven't talked to you in a long time and I just wanted to reach out to let you know I was thinking about you, I hope everything is well." I don't do that from a brown-nosing perspective, so to speak. I know some people think that's really trite, but that's genuine for me. If you get a message like that from me, it really does mean that I was thinking about you and that something made me think about you, and I just wanted to reach out and let you know. That's big for me.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
What I would tell myself is to have more confidence and be strong in myself. I was such a comparer and that constant act of comparing myself to others was such a roadblock. So just be you, be confident, focus on your strengths, because everybody on this planet has got something of value that they can give wherever they're at. But that comparison thing is just a killer. The best example that I can use is that I got my PhD later in my career. I did it in my 40s and I have a friend that wants to get a second PhD, and I'm really questioning her mental state because it was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life! I had this extensive business industry experience, which was amazing and I worked on my PhD a little later. So I'm in the academic life a little bit later and I'm in this entrepreneurial role a little bit later and if you're gonna compare yourself to everybody else, it's really easy to start questioning the things that you're doing. The things that I'm doing right now are really great and I'm insanely excited for 2022. I've got a book coming out, I've got new research coming out, there's some really great stuff going on with my company, I'm just so excited! But it's super easy to get caught up in that comparison and I wish my 20-year-old self would have known that a little bit more because it can be a bit of a roadblock.
Connect with Marya
Connect with Marya through her website at https://www.mwadvising.com/contact and schedule an appointment!
Meet Nick
Nicholas Hammernik is the Vice President at Hammernik & Associates. He is an Enrolled Agent, which is the highest designation assigned to tax professionals by the IRS. Nick uses his background in coaching and marketing to educate his clients on their tax situation with straightforward advice in a language that is easy for them to understand. Nick's main goal is to make sure small business owners are paying the least amount of tax legally possible to keep more of their hard-earned money.
What is the difference between an accountant and a tax planner?
I think on one of your prior podcasts you had talked with someone who described how accountants prepare financial statements and everything, but it really doesn't get into the full picture of the bottom line and saving a business owner money. At the end of the day, the greatest thing that a business owner is looking for, and I think everyone in life is looking for is how you can pay the least amount of money to the government and how you can make the most money, and that's through tax planning. We try to utilize our knowledge of tax laws to devise tax plans for business owners which means that we're instituting tax laws to reduce their tax bill. A normal accountant is preparing tax returns, making sure everything's filed on time, keeping you compliant and that's all very important, but at the end of the day, when we're filing your tax return in April, it's too late to save money in tax. There are a couple of small things that can be done, but if a taxpayer comes in and they realize they're owing a lot more in tax than they thought they should, or used to in the past, that becomes a problem. Then it's about focussing on what we can do next year to make sure that doesn't happen. So being proactive throughout the year by implementing tax strategies, reduces that tax liability and we kind of write the story of what that tax turns going to look like at the end of the year, instead of the story already being written when we file tax returns.
How has COVID-19 affected the tax industry?
It's been one of the craziest years ever for people and I definitely impacted not only the tax industry but small business owners in general. A lot of small business owners were forced to either shut their doors or change the way that they operate. There were things that became available as far as loans, credits, all these things to help keep cash flow in those small businesses. So it presented us with a lot more opportunities to advise small business owners as far as here's what's available that you may have already known about, but here are some more in-depth tax things that might be available that are going to save you some money right now and help you through these times. A lot of clients that we work with were actually able to thrive through the pandemic because it forced them to do things differently than they're used to, which opened up new opportunities for them. But it did help that these credits and loans were available to them even though the new tax laws with the stimulus payments created a crazy environment that changed the way that we had to report things on tax returns and presented opportunities for additional tax filing. At the end of the day, tax laws are always changing. This just happened to be a thing that came out of the dark, where tax laws were popping up every single day where we didn't know what the final tax law was gonna be with unemployment. So we had to play a lot of things by ear and spent a lot of time studying what was going on, but it did present opportunities for small business owners to take advantage of certain things that became available through tax laws because of COVID.
How will the impending tax laws from the Biden administration affect taxpayers and small business owners?
Anytime that there is a change in Washington, as far as the presidency goes, they're going to want to put their new tax plan in place. Part of their pitch when they're they're running for president is what they will do from a tax perspective which makes it one of the main talking points during the election. You can't take what their proposal is as what it's actually going to be, but project based on the main points what it will look like. We don't know when it's gonna be changed. It could be as soon as 2022, it could be 2023, but for the most part, is probably going to be coming. The main things that are in there if we're going to project it out are that the tax brackets are going to go up, which means that everyone's going to be paying a little bit more in tax. That was going to be a given no matter what happened as far as the next tax law changes when the current tax brackets that we have right now are the lowest they've been in decades and it was only a matter of time before they went back down. So we do encourage people to try to take advantage of those tax brackets, especially if they're in a lower tax bracket. We advise people that are in retirement mode, that are allowed to take money out of their IRAs, to start taking that money out and paying tax on it now because that money's got to be taxed at some point. Once you reach a certain age, the age now is 72, they force you to take out a certain amount from that account every single year, and pay tax on it. So who knows what that tax rate is going to look like at that time, or if you're passing that money down to a beneficiary when you pass away, they're going to pay tax on it. What tax rate are they going to be paying at? So it is important to look at to see if there are already opportunities for you to take advantage of potentially by paying tax at money now, with the current tax rates rather than waiting when you're going to eventually have to pay tax on it otherwise. From a small business perspective, they are proposing some changes in there that would reduce some of the tax credits that are available to small businesses right now. A lot of that stuff is up in the air, but that's when we go in and do tax planning. Anytime that changes are made, it presents opportunities to change the way that a business is structured or the way that they're operating. Just because they might be structured one way right now, and it's the most advantageous with the current tax laws doesn't mean that when things change, it makes sense to stay that way. It's important to be as proactive as possible when analyzing everything in your business such as your sales, your budgets, making sure you're hitting your goals. But also, how much tax are you paying? Is the way that you're structured the right way to pay the least amount legally possible to the government right now? If those tax laws change, that might change your situation as well and it might be time to reevaluate the way that you're operating.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
I've been in the industry for almost 10 years now and throughout time, I've done a lot of different things. So Chamber of Commerce meetings, BNI, going to financial advisors where they put on presentations, and at the end of the day, it's about finding people that you're comfortable with because it allows you to open up which creates that connection where they're going to trust you with referring people that trust them to trust you. My BNI group has been great. It's over in Wauwatosa, Wisconsin, and it's a very tight-knit group. A lot of the people in there have been there for a while and going to the meetings is not a drag, it's not something you dread going into it, because it's easy conversation. Sometimes the conversation isn't even about business anymore. You know, it's about a TV show, or it's about the packers, or it's checking in to see how your family is doing. Creating connections that are personal and friendly first takes you to the level where someone's going to trust you with people that trust them to make sure that you're doing a job with work for them. So that would be the best experience that I've had so far.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture the relationships you’ve created?
One of the main things that I like to do is if someone reaches out to me, I make sure that I'm responding to them within 24 hours no matter how big or large the question is I am at least addressing it. I also like to make sure that we're keeping in touch. We like to utilize email platforms to send out newsletters or things that are happening, especially in our industry to make sure that people are thinking about us all year. Oftentimes, people only think about people in our industry for those dreaded couple months out of the year. So we like to keep in touch throughout the year so that they're thinking about us in case there's anything else that might come up for them throughout the year. So just making sure that we have consistent touchpoints with people to make sure that they're not forgetting about us.
What advice would you offer to those business professionals really looking to grow their network?
I think it all depends on what type of industry you're in as far as where you should look to grow your network. If you're looking to scale something where you need high volume, I think it definitely makes sense to work something out online where you're able to reach a broader audience, if that's through advertisements, or if that's through LinkedIn, Facebook, things like that. If you're looking for those few big fish where you don't need a ton of clients, or you don't need to sell a ton of products, I think it definitely makes sense to reach out to local groups. It could be a dedicated networking group, or joining a group that is made up specifically of individuals that are in your target market. I think it depends on what your ideal client looks like, as far as how you should approach it. Either way, I think a combination of both online and in-person is always a good idea. But if you need to reach a higher number of people in order to hit your sales or revenue goals, I think that online is really going to help you with that. So if that's just doing advertisements, doing webinars, creating groups where people can talk about things, that would be where I would steer someone for that. But if you're looking for a specific individual that fits a certain profile, it makes sense to get your feet on the ground in your area so that you can really connect with people to gain their trust and then see how you can find those targets that you're looking for.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
This is a great question because this is something that I've been thinking about for probably five or six years, as far as the stuff that I learned in high school or college, I barely use any of it right now. I wish that they focus more on some real-life skills as far as tax, investing, retirement, insurance, all these things that when you get thrown into the real world you've got to start learning about. I recently spoke at my former high school and they have something called employability where it starts teaching them how to make themselves employable. I was glad to see that, but if I were to go back to my 20-year-old self, I would definitely do more internships. I actually went to school for marketing. When I got out of school it was 2008 when the job market was terrible. I ended up taking a couple of cold-calling sales jobs and absolutely hated it. I did one internship, but it was my senior year of college and everyone was looking for experience and I had just graduated college and didn't have experience yet. So even when you're 16 or 17 if you know what you want to do, or even if you don't, start doing internships, even if they're unpaid. Getting your foot in the door and getting that real-world experience is going to provide you better things to put on your resume, better experience than that 4.0 you got in college. When I am interviewing people, I ask about real-world experiences, I ask about wins that they've had in their personal and professional life. So just getting experience in different areas that might help you out in the future is what I wish I did more. What I would encourage younger people to do now because, unfortunately, college has kind of become a commodity. A general business degree at this point really isn't doing much for you, to be honest, it's that experience. Internships, internships, internships is what I would preach to my 20-year-old self.
I understand you have an offering for our listeners?
In our lobby, we have some books that have been written by our president Dale Hammernik and we have copies available. You can come by and pick them up, or you can shoot me an email and I'll mail them out to you. The first book is called Straight Talk About Small Business Success In Wisconsin and it provides a roadmap from start to finish if you're just starting out a business. We do have limited copies of that book and it would be great for someone that is an entrepreneur that's thinking about starting up a small business or even an established business owner. It's a very easy read and it's sectioned out so if there's only a specific section you want to read about, it's easy to do that. The second book is called The Great Tax Escape and it gives an update on the most recent tax law changes. It walks through the most important tax law changes and how to understand those in easy-to-understand language, and how to possibly make those tax laws work for you.
Connect with Nick
Email Nick at nick@hammernikassoc.com or stop by their office at 10777 W Beloit Rd, Greenfield, WI if you’re interested in picking up a copy of one of their books!
Website: https://www.hammernikassoc.com/
Meet Dan
Dan Schneck is CEO & Founder of WJI Networks Business Solutions, an IT agency firm in Brookfield, Wisconsin specializing in providing engineered technology & cybersecurity solutions, building, and integration of IT systems & support for the modern business office, warehouse, or automated production facility.
He hosts the IT Records podcast, which features discussions with business owners, entrepreneurs, and professionals about the human side of business, how technology affects personal and professional development, and what motivates guests. As his creative passion, Dan performs jazz, blues, and funk music on the Hammond B3 organ with his group, B3 Groove.
What is digital transformation and why should I care?
Digital transformation actually has a personal connection to me and it's why I really started my company. I think the whole pandemic really accelerated all of this for all companies. Digital transformation, to me, is about what your goal is for the future, how you can get there, and how you can leverage technology to meet your goals in your business growth. It's really that simple. As you said, it's kind of a buzzword that's out there, but really it's taking a deep dive to assess what you want to get out of your business using technology.
How is automation changing the world of business?
Where do I start with automation? First of all, it's changing the landscape of how we connect with customers. From my perspective, sitting in an IT and engineering and support world, click to chat, digital chat, ways to connect, communicate with customers on service calls, that's all evolving rapidly. It's making it easier to connect and communicate with customers. Number one, it's presenting a lot of new challenges and going out and finding new business. I know there's a lot of automation happening with email, and CRMs, and things like that, but my background is a little more as a technology integrator so I spent a lot of time in automation facilities and manufacturing companies that are implementing a ton of automation. It's really fascinating to see that shift from robotics to packaging lines. That automation world is taking off like crazy lately and it's really helping companies produce more, faster, better and the level of knowledge is really rising within those companies on how to automate processes and procedures. It's really fun.
How do I find technology resources when I need advice?
My answer to this is a little nuanced. First of all, everyone needs a good technology partner these days. So my answer to that would be to do your homework, communicate, talk, interview different technology companies. There are a ton of tech companies out there and I always like to say you can throw a rock and hit an IT company, but all of us specialize in different nuances and areas. Our strength is really what we opened with digital transformation, taking the customer on the journey from good to better, and finding cost savings on existing technology. So you need to ask questions and attend events. There are such great cybersecurity webinars happening and informational webinars happening. If you visit our website, we have some content posted, we run webinars all the time, and just be willing to have a conversation and ask questions. It's a little overwhelming for customers at this point because of the explosion of technology, but we are certainly here to help answer any questions and that's what we like to do. We like to be your concierge and your quarterback so we think we have the answers and feel free to ask.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
Recently, one of my most successful networking experiences was finding a group called Vistage. I joined this group a couple of years ago as a peer, entrepreneur, and CEO group. That really has been a godsend for me! It's been a great group to connect with other like-minded business owners and that's just been a huge journey and success for me.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture the relationships you’ve created?
I visit my customers a lot so I have a lot of face time with customers. As part of our process, when we onboard a client, I make it a point to visit customers every couple of months and check in with them. It's not all about tech, it's just checking in and asking how their business is doing and where they might be struggling. I'm always listening for technology solutions that can help them and I'm always amazed at the number of times that when I create that relationship with a customer, we ended up talking about 15 other things, but one of them is a really important technology solution that I might be able to provide.
What advice would you offer to those business professionals really looking to grow their network?
Keep connecting with others. Make it a point to follow and stay in touch. Don't always pick up the phone and talk about your business. As I said, the conversations that I love to have with my customers aren't even about business half the time. Prior to the pandemic, I didn't even use a CRM because I never really had to, but now I lean on my CRM like crazy! I leave touchpoints, follow up with my customers and make it a point to tell your story as often as you can.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
If I can go back to my 20-year-old self, I am telling myself to slow down to speed up. One of the lessons that I have personally learned over the past two years is to develop focus, and I have constantly been finding that the more you slow down and really think through a decision, what's the best outcome, not only for yourself but for your clients. When you're in business, that's my top piece of advice. Don't rush decisions. I think you appreciate your decisions, more you make better decisions, and you make the best decision for your clients if you do things that way.
Connect with Dan
Connect with Dan through his website at https://wjinet.com/ to claim a free copy of his eBook, 10 Keys To Finding Your Best IT Provider Match!
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danschneck/
Email: dan@wjinet.com
Meet Shane
Shane is a serial entrepreneur and podcaster, living in Linden, Michigan with his family.
How can you consistently stand out from your competitors?
I think in this day and age, everyone's so bombastic and trying to stand out especially in the social media world, I think to do the opposite. Remember the old cliche, the loudest one in the room is the weakest one. I think when we can understand that, without even going into the layers of it, it's easy to just kind of kickback be a little bit quiet and draw people in. We're so eager to talk about ourselves and talk about our reviews or certification or whatever it is, but when we can hang back and just be present at the moment, that is what's going to draw people in and create real interest. When you can be that warm, fuzzy blanket and make yourself stand out from the noise that we live in.
How can you create raving fans in your marketplace?
So my obsession in my service company was the customer experience. If you were to break down and rank on a 1 to 10 scale, all the different parts of your business from service, to sales, to follow-up, most people never focus on the experience. How does it feel to do business with your company? There was a certain point in time with my service company that we were literally double the price of our competitors and we did the same exact thing, but the way it felt to do business with us was significantly different. It's like a good song where you might not know the words or the lyrics or what the song means, but you just like the way the song makes you feel. That's how you create an amazing customer experience and stand out in your market.
How can you win by embracing your authentic DNA?
I think a lot of times we view weakness as some sort of sin. It's bad about our business, it's bad about us, but in reality, that is the thing that's going to humanize you. Perfection is intimidating, but when it's real, that authenticity, that's what that is, it's real, it's transparent. That's when you connect to a real person, an authentic real person. A lot of times our weaknesses, when we know and understand them enough become an actual strength. When we can write down what we're not good at, when we can meditate on it, when we can marinate in it, that is the thing that is going to make you stand out, it's gonna develop a connection with you. As I said, perfection is intimidating so I think I think it's a great way to go to embrace your imperfections and the things you're not good at.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
When I started my first company, BNI was the thing that got us off the ground, and as a 25-year-old kid, it was hard at first. But man, it really got me going, it forced me out of my comfort zone, it forced me into some relationships that ended up being extremely profitable. I'd say get over yourself and start to network, if it's a Chamber of Commerce, if it's BNI, relationships are so much a part of business and so when you can understand that you'll start to develop those relationships. Life is what you do with fear and so when you can get over those social fears, you will create allies and create a lot more money when you can develop those relationships.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture the relationships you’ve created?
Don't be clingy or needy, but stay top of mind. Relationships are everything so stay top of mind. Whatever industry you're in, make sure people in your town in your circle of network now that you're the person that does that and attend as many as you can, but don't be the person who's begging for leads or begging for work. Be the person that provides value, that they themselves would want to do business with. Don't be so dependent on your network that you need them for leads, but referrals are the best type of customer to have because there’s no customer acquisition cost. I think I think networking is a great way to develop a steady stream of leads.
What additional advice would you offer to those business professionals really looking to grow their network?
I'd say going all-in on BNI. I think most chambers are much more laid back, but you can't go wrong with BNI. If nothing else, you're sharpening your own skills, sharpening your elevator pitch and it's a real commitment. You pay to play and, and you will develop your skills. BNI is a steady stream of leads, it's not a lever that you pull, but you'll get your very best customers from the referrals you'll generate.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I think I would have gone all-in on marketing much quicker or taken a loan or an investment from a family member. I just spent so many endless days trying to drum up leads by passing out flyers in mailboxes. Networking groups are great, but you've got to market your business, there's no way around it. To be able to get over my pride as someone who really valued self-reliance, just to take a small loan or a small investment just to start marketing would have gotten me on my feet much, much quicker than the route I ended up picking.
Do you have any final words of advice for our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
I think when in doubt, don't focus on how you feel about your fear or your insecurities. Don't be that clingy person. Don't tell everyone how you're the smartest person in the room, make them feel that they're the smartest person in the room and be the warm fuzzy blanket and provide value and the leads will come flooding in I promise.
Connect with Shane
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shane-whelan-13356bb5/
Reach out to Shane if you’re interested in a free copy of his eBook!
Meet Liz
Liz Nead is an adventure speaker, traveling the world and taking on challenges to find lessons of leadership, communication diversity, and inclusion. A diversity speaker and researcher for over a decade, she specializes common language and daily communication around race and cultural differences in the workplace. Liz uses a direct, humorous, and vivid style from the stage to create opportunities for communication around differences. She shares life with 7 kids and her husband of 21 years.
How do you work the room with diversity and belonging in mind?
It's funny that you asked that question because just like everyone else, I am in the middle of growth and change, and I deal with my own humanity and the humanity of others. Sometimes when I see these thought leaders that are like typically on Oprah super soul sessions, their vibe is very mellow. For me, the first thing about networking is to be authentic and the second thing about being authentic and networking is that you don't take it personally which is constantly a juggle. How do you do that in networking with diversity, stay authentic, but not take it personally.
What are the questions to avoid?
It's a tough one and the reason why it's tough is because life has changed so much and honestly what was acceptable, even two years ago, like let's just say pre-COVID is no longer acceptable. The kinds of questions which are very superficial like where are you from and what's your ethnicity and you have such an interesting look or what's your take on this? Someone might ask me what my take is on something related to this. diversity in the news, not because I'm a diversity speaker, but because I'm a person of color and some of those assumptions that people are okay with you jumping in right away into their personal life are just not okay anymore. I think the expectation has changed, we have an increased expectation that people will understand what is acceptable and what is not and we're not forgiving ignorance as much anymore. So rather than say, people are too sensitive, a better thing is what's your experience with this? What do you find important? If you had to choose between these two things what would you choose? So you're getting deeper into what someone's interests are, or perspectives rather than the superficial differences that we can see with the naked eye.
What is the biggest thing you hope people take to heart in 2022?
The thing that I love to teach as a trainer and a speaker, and I've niched myself into diversity for the first time in 15 years because I think that my country needs help in strategies to build confidence around differences. Our confidence is at an all-time low which is why you see so much conflict is because the only people who are left talking are the ones who don't care what you think. Everybody else has become a bit silent because they're afraid that people will be offended and they know that that's not what they want, but they're not sure how to say it. What I hope is that first of all people understand it's not about intent, it's about impact. We all mean well and nobody goes to a networking event to hurt some feelings or to make people feel discluded. That's just not why you go to a networking event. However, the things that you say may have the opposite impact on your intent and then that's where the work starts. If you didn't intend for it to be that way, it should be pretty easy to change what you're saying, because you want the impact to be a positive one. I think that one thing can change a lot of things. A lot of ways that people connect with each other. I think confidence can be built back up and then the second thing that I'm really hoping Is that people understand that you can have the same situation but experience it differently. So one, let's say there was a temperature in the house 69 degrees. One person is wearing sweaters and mittens, and the other one has actual sweat rolling down their cheek, because you can have the same temperature but experience it two different ways. So rather than arguing about whether one person should not feel cold or not feel hot, you recognize that two people are in exactly the same place, but they don't feel the same way about it and then conversations can start. I think if those two things, if I can convince people or if people can understand that it's not a fight over who's going to take the summit, but it's really just a different way of looking at the mountain, I really think that some change could happen, and we're ready for it.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
I started my business 15 years ago and it's interesting because Drew McLellan was part of that early networking. So I was very successful in the beginning because I was so open about what I wanted. I think sometimes people don't want to be salesy so they never ask for anything and they don't share how important it is. I met one of the speakers at that summit and I met Drew through that process where I was saying, my biggest dream was to talk to audiences. At the time, I wasn't even sure what I wanted to talk about, but they were able to help me because I just let them know, "Hey, I'm putting all my cards in your hands, can you help me with this?" And I probably had 20 people in those first years, help me with different things like start an internet radio show, which would now be called a podcast, I got a television show, I got countless numbers of speaking engagements, I wrote a book and it all happened in that first five years because I was so willing to help others, but also say, "I really admire this expertise about you. What do you think? what's your advice? What would my next step be?" You know when you give advice and people don't take it? I took everyone's advice and I took it all to heart. Every networking event was this fun, I just want to get to know people, I helped a lot of people and it was a precious time. It was right around 2008 when people were looking for that kind of thing and so it isn't any one thing but it was me going in with this childlike openness, saying I'm not going to play it cool, I'm going to show you who I am and you get to decide whether you like it or not, I'm not hiding anything.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture the relationships you’ve created?
We have social media and authenticity is what makes social media run. With the advent of reels and tik tok and just the way video works, that is the capital. If they like you, and if you build a following on the real you, you're never going to get sick of being you and so I have always used social media and been real. You'll know about my husband, you'll know about my children, the things that make me sad, the things that make me excited. It's not all about me, but I'm the engine and so social media was one really big thing. Also, blast video! When video came on the scene that became a partner to authenticity, because 90% of your communication that's nonverbal, that people have their intuition, they really can decide whether you're telling them the truth, whether you really know what you're talking about overtime. I really came in at the best possible time, I have things like newsletters, but video is the place where someone will say, I watched two hours of your YouTube channel and finally sent you an email, I would like to hire you as a speaker. So back in the day, when I had, I still don't have that many viewers like I think I might have 40,000 views, but out of those 40,000 views, I have gotten an incredible number of speaking engagements and opportunities. Video is for anyone who wants to get in front of the camera and be themselves. I think that's the biggest way that I stay connected with my community.
What additional advice would you offer to those business professionals really looking to grow their network?
There are a couple of things. The one thing no one wants to hear is that I still think that you have to put yourself in front of people and that you have to be ready to explain what your value proposition is and who you are. I think that that is a really important first layer. So you do need to find your people and show up. I mean, I found at the summit that we met at, that was a networking thing for me. I decided that I wanted to put myself out there, get into that group of people and I think that first impressions are really important. Then the other side of it, it doesn't matter what you're selling, everybody's trying to sell an idea or a product or connect meaningfully in some way and you have to show what you're doing. I look at Tic Tok which I'm fascinated with, but there's this account and she makes these stickers that go on the back of laptops and phones, and then she makes these key chains and all she does is video what she's doing. They're really pretty things and sometimes she gives you uplifting things like it's her voice and she's just talking about what's going on in her life. But you want to buy it because over time you feel like you're part of it and so I think that when you get connected with the in-person connection, you maintain that. Find a way to show people what you're doing. Don't give them the curated version, just show them what you're doing and get over yourself wanting to look perfect. At the end of the day, that's what people want. They want to invest in something that they feel like they can be part of and I think for anyone who's starting out it really doesn't matter. You can accelerate your process if you're willing to put yourself out there in person and then pull back the curtain and reveal who you are and I'm saying through video. Everyone should have a tic tok! I have a tic tok I'm still not very good at it, but I think that's where it's going to be for a while.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
So I just moved from a city to a small town. I made that choice because it was best for my family, and for me. It didn't really make sense from the standpoint of what people thought of me. They thought I'd be one of those people who retired in a loft and I walked to get my baguettes and my coffee and I'd never had any groceries in the fridge and we'd travel all over. Instead, I'm living in this small town and I have a boat and a cheap golf membership and I'm going to live my life with my husband while I work my rear end off and hang out with my kids. What I realized now after making that really big decision because I had lived in another place for 20 years, and before that a similar place for 20 years before that. So by upending my life, I realized, "Hey, 20-year-old Liz, do not make any decisions based on validation and approval." Don't do it! Look at what other people are doing and figure out what your belief system is and align it and refine it, but stop worrying about whether or not people think you're okay. The world is a place for you to cultivate the life that you want and your job is to live out your purpose and to master how to live out your purpose and not to make sure that everyone likes you. I think that I'm not going to regret anything but I could have avoided a lot of stress in my life if I had understood that the power of knowing that you could live anywhere you want, you can do anything you want. You've just got to be yourself and it will work itself out is the message that I continue to give my 20-year-old self actually so she'll be brave and let me make some decisions.
Do you have any final words of advice for our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
I really think that as we move away from thinking that people are diverse and that it's situations that are diverse, I really think to make sure that you're working to understand a person's experience. We have this unique moment in time where it's tumultuous, and there's so much that is unknown. What a great opportunity to get to know each other at a deeper level and say things like, "What has been your experience with that?" And dig deeper about why would you choose one thing over another. Why is that so important to you? This is our moment, we have so much influence on other people, but we're afraid to use it. I'm really hoping that people will see that work better together and start using our influence in a positive way.
Connect with Lynn
Tik Tok: @mamanead
Website: https://www.liznead.com/
Meet Lynn
Lynn is the owner of Data2Profit Consulting. He helps small to medium-sized companies make more money with their data by using financial ideas and tools he learned at Procter & Gamble. He has a unique ability to help clients think big picture, while at the same time digging into the details of their results. When you feel you have a lot of numbers around but no answers, Lynn will make those numbers work as hard as you do, and turning your data into profit.
There are lots of different people out there who help businesses keep their finances together. What makes you different?
There are lots of part-time accountants out there, there are lots of types of bookkeepers, you get your part-time CFOs and where they're focused oftentimes on the preparation of your finances, and taking a very traditional view of here's your income state, here's how you look at it, here's your balance sheet, here's what it can tell you, what I do is take those numbers and reverse engineer them to not only be able to tell people what happened, but why it happened, and more importantly, give them recommendations about what you should think about doing next. That is a completely different perspective than I think a lot of business owners get from their accountants and their CFOs.
In one of your blogs, you said that what accountants report isn't enough. Can go talk about what you meant by that?
Absolutely. It really comes down to what the accountants give you is a score, right? It's where are you at, at the time. What happened last month and what were your results over the past year? And they give you that which is good, but again, it doesn't always give you an idea of what you should be doing going forward because the perspective is getting a gap financial statement. You're your business owner, and you can always say "Okay, how much profit did I make that month?" But the real question is where's the profit because you can't spend what's on the balance sheet. What is your profit, how did it get there, most importantly, where is it, and finally, when can you actually spend it? I can say that I made all this profit by selling this stuff, but if nobody's paid me for it, yet, I can't spend that money. Or if I look at my bank statement today, it may say I have $10,000 there, but it doesn't tell you five days from now you may need 15,000. So what will happen with the other 5000? It's a moving piece that if you just rely on that static perspective, without both and understanding how you got there, and where you're going, what's coming up, then you're really missing a big chunk of what's going to impact your business results.
I've heard you you say that the numbers that business owner should look at are more than dollars and cents. What else should business owners be looking at?
Everyone says that their sales are growing, but the question is, why or how? And again, you could look into very easily say these customers, or this particular region or this product line, but when you put that all together, who are your most valuable customers? How many most valuable customers do you have? I worked with a business for a long time and they said we love all of our customers and while that is true, everybody loves all their customers, you may not love them all equally. How many of them really depend on that? How many times are they buying? What's their average purchase order spend? How many lines are they buying? What number of products are they actually buying? When you look at your gross margins, there are seven different groups of people within your company that can impact your gross margins. Which one is it? Is as your customers? Is it your salespeople? Is it your marketing people? Is it the logistics people, the manufacturing people, the purchasing people, or is it just simply a mix? And so you really have to dissect a lot of the numbers that you look into and look at the activities that people are doing and that's really what it comes down to? How else can you look at the activities and what is occurring in your business? Because, at the end of the day, all finance and accounting do are assign numbers to the activities that people have done. How many sales calls are they doing? How many sales calls are your people making to the best customers? What are they talking about? There's a lot of qualitative information that you can mind to get an understanding of where your people are coming from. So when you really get into it, that's part of what I like to do is talk to them about the non-financial numbers that you could be or, should be looking more at in terms of the activities of your business?
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
I'm one of those people that actually loves meeting people. In fact, my current coach has told me, "Lynn, you have to stop having as much fun." I'll talk to anybody about networking because I think people are fascinating, and there are so many different opportunities out there for people that if you're not networking, you're just really not learning as an individual about the world around you. So when you think about networking, you're really building a network of people that you meet, know, and can refer to each other. Once you get really into this, I met a banker once and she said, "Oh, you have to meet Angelica, she's forming this group called go givers." I joined and we're all basically people who help support small businesses. If they need me, they should need another accountant base, you need a lawyer, they should need a banker, they should need a coach, or are a part-time HR group. I met a part-time CFO through that group who recommended me to a client. I was able to help this client do what I was hired to do, but they also said, "By the way, you should meet Jeff. He's a specialist in r&d tax credits." All of a sudden, they hook up because now I've made the introduction and three months later, my client find out that they're going to get over $100,000 returned to them from r&d tax credits because I became that trusted business advisor who recommended somebody else. When you look at somebody, you can really help somebody in a very tangible way like that is important to me.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture the relationships you’ve created?
That's one of the biggest challenges that I've come to realize I was not doing a great job of. I am now actively designing and building that system, and that capability. I've tried all different kinds of things on my own, and unfortunately, I've met a lot of really interesting people, and probably some of them may have been more valuable contacts, but I let those relationships drop. This was really before I began to truly appreciate the value of it. I would say right now, if you're beginning to network, figure out a way that works for you to really keep in contact with these people. I've spent a lot of time on occasion going back and realizing that it's been a long time since I have checked in with certain people, and so I have now got my sales process outlined or my contact management process outlined, and am beginning to build that. I made that early mistake of not having a great system to be able to do that so I'm playing a lot of catch-up right now.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I would be more intentional and have a life plan that gave me a little more direction because I allowed myself to accept things that came my way without really exploring what else was out there. For example, when I look back and see what I really enjoy doing now, I probably would not have gotten into corporate finance. But that's where I interviewed with P&G, I did a temp job with them. They interviewed and over the next 14 years, I moved through P&G and moved up in PNG to the point where I had to ask myself if this was really what I want to do for the rest of my life? I decided that it wasn't so I went to work for a smaller company, which I did a lot of that same stuff. But then I got into marketing and sales and I found out that this is really where the fun is when you're getting closer to the customer and what they're doing. I've really gotten to the point where I believe that this is what I was meant to do. I enjoy the challenge of meeting people and finding out how I can help them. But at the same time, I could have gotten here a long time ago. Here now, I feel like this is like the second career for me. All my friends are now retiring, and I started a company three years ago.
Do you have any final words of advice for our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
You've got to own it. Not very many people come reaching out to you, and yes, there are people who are reluctant to engage in those situations. But it really is an opportunity to step out of your own little comfort zone and meet some really cool, fascinating people that otherwise you never would have. You have to get out there, and particularly, if you're a business owner, whether you are networking within your own industry segment, or a different direction, just get out and do it. Don't be afraid to be that one in the room that steps into a group of four or five other people to introduce yourself and to ask a very unique question about them. Remember, it's not all about you, And believe me, that's that was my rookie mistake. You will mess up, you will make mistakes, you will say the wrong things, but you know what? You've just got to get up and do it again and once you get comfortable with the idea, it really can be a lot of fun.
Connect with Lynn
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynn-corazzi/
Website: https://www.data2profit.net/
Phone: 920-948-3355
Meet Steve
Steve is the founder of The Globally Conscious Leader & Dotcomjungle. His ability to absorb information about brands, strategies, and technologies, then impart their context and opportunities in simple language, has proved invaluable as a trusted advisor to owners & CEOs. His use of Spousal KPI is a humorous, effective way to help executives develop healthy lifestyles & thriving businesses. Dotcomjungle is his technology team supporting companies in making and implementing wise technology choices.
Why do you talk about 'Spousal KPI' and 'River KPI', and why does it matter?
I came across this because in my work as a trusted adviser with owners and executives of CPG companies, oftentimes the question is how do I measure effectiveness? I found that what's true is that the executives that end up getting to know me and that I work with, need someone like me, because they're lonely, frankly. They might have a set of managers inside their business or a Board of Directors, but they're still sitting alone at the top of that heap. When you're someone who's made something with your hands, and it's somewhere along the line said, "Gosh, if I sold these to people, I can make a lot of money," which is a lot of what manufacturing is the United States, you have an ownership responsibility and an emotional stake in the company than someone who's an executive of let's say North Face, doesn't have. So you go home every night to your spouse and you often take the emotions of that day with you. So with Spousal KPI, what I try to do is I say I want to meet your wife or I want to meet your husband, and we're going to go to dinner because I want them to know that if you're happy when you come home, that their life is going to be better and if that's what's true, then I've done my job. So the KPI is the key performance indicator and as I said, if you have a better relationship with your spouse because you're not bringing home all the crappy stuff that happened that day, and dumping it on their table, then I'm doing my job. The other one, the River KPIs, I happen to be a fisherman and I like standing in the river and I know when my businesses are going well, I spend more time in the river and I get better ideas when I'm standing in the river, and I come home refreshed and go to work refreshed. That's where those come from and I say it with a smile on my face, but they're very real because you change the lifestyle of the owner and you often change the culture and the lifestyle of all the people who work in the company as well.
How do you go about discovering the underlying needs of your business and how do you turn that into actionable value?
Well, this is more thinking along the lines of what my trusted advisership leads to which is often bringing in Dotcomjungle, which is my technology arm to understand the true challenges that are happening in a company. The first thing is you have to ask that question of what's going wrong with your business, or where do you think the struggles are? The main answer to that question is something that we like to call engaging your MBWA, which is different than an MBA, it's management by walking around. We work with a lot of manufacturers and as I said, they're usually salt-of-the-earth folks who invented something with their hands and 20 years later, they're the CEO of a $40 million company that's shipping to Home Depot and Cabela's. That management by walking around is something that a lot of executives kind of forget, and part of it is just the nature of a company. As you grow, you build up a team of people who are workers who do the stuff, they do the shipping, you got the janitor, you have somebody answering the phone, and eventually, you have managers, and then you have managers of managers. What gets left behind is that MBWA, and the typical example would be, let's say a company that is worth 120 million. They have an executive management team that includes the CMO, the CTO, the CFO, the President of Operations, maybe the shipping manager, the supply chain person, and the CEO, and lets they have a question like, we think we need to update our ERP. Well, the natural thing for those folks to do is say, Well, I have three people or two people working under me, and under those people, 18 people are doing the work so they think about it as a flagpole. I bet that I'm at the top of the flagpole so I'm going to move down the flagpole to the next person and I'm gonna say, let me know what we need for an ERP and then that next person is going to then talk to their 18 people and say, give us all the feedback of what you want. What gets lost is that no one's going and sitting next to those 18 people, walking up to them (this is the MBWA) and sitting next to them and watching them work for a day and saying, "Why did you do that? What did you expect to happen? What is it that you would rather have happened?" If you get into what some people call the five why's, you have to ask why five times before you get to the real answer. In a certain way, that answer answers the second half of the question like how do you turn those into actionable items? Because if you're on that executive board, and either you or someone you truly trust, maybe the person that reports to you goes down and talks to those 18 people, the actionable items become clear. You don't even have to know technology, or systems, or people if you know that you should ask why five times, because they'll tell you. So sometimes people look at what we do like it's magic and it's not. If you own a company, whether its manufacturer or not, you actually want to know what's going on, it's not trite to say, Go talk to the stakeholders who are actually using your systems and see what they're doing. Go hang out with the shipping team for a day, and help them. Go hang out with your sales team and watch what they do and ask them what their frustrations are. You won't get better answers from other people who are trying to ask those questions that you will if you ask them yourself, and you will create a better culture for your company if you do that.
How do leadership, communication, and technology becoming HR issues (and vice versa) in most businesses?
Everywhere I go, people love to do good work and if you give them good systems that measure the right things and allow them to succeed, they're going to be really happy working for you. It doesn't matter how much you pay them, to some extent. I don't mean to minimize how much someone should get paid, because we need to pay people well, but happiness matters, and a feeling of success is one of the most important things about happiness. So conversely, if you have systems and processes that people have to trudge through, and they don't feel successful, and especially if you give them sales goals that are incommensurate to the ability of the systems to support, and they feel like they can't hit their sales goals because they're hampered by technology, you're gonna have a bunch of unhappy people and it doesn't matter how much you pay. We all know people who left jobs for lower-paying positions somewhere where they just knew they'd be way happier. That's how technology becomes an HR issue and vice versa. Most companies look at HR, it's a department and the HR's job is to provide the legal framework to hire people, and fire people, and then they sit in their silo. But HR means human resources, and the humans don't stop existing once they've been hired and then start existing again when the HR has to deal with them and get rid of them if something crazy is going on like they're drinking on the job or just underperforming. True HR happens every single day, inside the culture of the company. The technology supports that, the goals of the company support that, the way people talk to each other supports that, so they're all interconnected.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
Gosh, I've had a lot of painful moments too when it comes to networking. I am a naturally gregarious person, but I also have a lot of hesitations about networking, direct marketing, and meeting people that I have never met before. At the same time, in the last 30 years, what I've realized is that the relationships that I've built in the past and the ones I'm going to build in the future are really important. I've come to learn that I'm no longer afraid to cold call somebody if I have a real reason to cold call them. I don't really ever make cold calls, I make warm calls, and I and I do not have a traditional sales funnel. So when everybody out there is thinking about this, they might be thinking about, lead magnets and sales funnels and people getting warmed up, I don't do any of that. I come out of the outdoor industry and in the world of Patagonia, North Face, rock climbing, mountaineering, skiing, snowboarding, all that fun, active stuff. I was a fishing guide in my youth, I was a rock climbing and mountaineering instructor, I've been a hard goods buyer for outdoor stores, I've owned an outdoor store, I've worked with a ton of consumer products goods inside the outdoor industry and the some of the relationships that I have there go back 30 years. Some of the people who own the larger sales repping organizations in the Pacific Northwest used to be dirtbag rock climbers that I climbed with. We were sleeping in our tracks, not taking showers, and climbing 12 hours a day together back in 1992. I have learned through those relationships that there are a lot more people I don't know than I do know. One of the success stories I would say is part of my personality is what led me to form The Globally Conscious Leader. It's different than having a business like Dotcomjungle, like when I call somebody and say, "Hey, my name is Steve from Dotcomjungle," I wouldn't blame anybody if they held up the phone, because they don't know what that means. But when I call somebody and say, "This is Steve from the globally conscious leader," and there's somebody from the outdoor industry, which by its very nature, cares about global responsibility, cares about circular supply chain, circular economy thinking, cares about the longevity of the product, repairability of product, the right to repair as a legal concept, they're very likely to say, "Oh, that's interesting, what can I do for you?" The success is that it has given me a lot more confidence in just calling up someone. So recently, I had somebody recommended me. It was somebody I've known for about 30 years and all he said to the other person was, "You need to call Steve, he's legendary!" So I asked him, why he called me, and he said, Well, Mike said you were legendary," He said that he saw everything that I do and that he was lonely and needed somebody to talk to. So that was a situation where, like I said, because of the name, The Globally Conscious Leader, the person who's making the recommendation didn't even have to tell him why he should call me, and it turns out, there are maybe five different things that can help that person with.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture your community?
I'm always working on that and I think that changes a lot. Right now, I think for what I do, LinkedIn is a really great place for me to be. It's a good place where I can develop my persona, and I'm fortunate that my persona is just me and I don't have to pretend to be something else. The challenge is finding time to be myself. So part of what I'm learning is that if I could just be on phone calls with you and 50 other people every week, not only would I have more fun, I'd have a better Spousal KPI, I'd sleep better, and I make the connections I need that would not just bring me business, but I bring a lot of value to businesses and that's what brings me joy. So nurturing those relationships through LinkedIn and making connections via live chat and I grill people, I find out how long they've been married, how many kids they have, where they were born. We talk about a lot of stuff before we even talk about business.
What advice would you offer the business professionals looking to grow their network?
Two things: In a protective way, watch out for groups of social networks that aren't really going to service you. At the same time, you really have to be open to everyone who connects with you, because you don't really know until you get to know them, whether they're going to be helpful or not. Every time I get judgmental about somebody in a social network, especially LinkedIn because I get anywhere between two and 15 connection requests a day. If I get judgmental, and say, No, I usually find out later that that was somebody that I should have just said yes to. So I really do say yes to everyone on LinkedIn, that now connects to me and I've also learned that the more I do for other people, the more they do for me so I'd say, don't be afraid of communities of people who do similar things to you. They could bring you into a community and it'd be easy to look at that group of folks and say that there are all these people and none of them are my customers. Well, it turns out they all work with people that are my customers, and what I provide is so unique that those folks who are very likely to recommend me to their customers, as an adjunct to what they're doing. Likewise, speaking specifically about manufacturing as an example, if I want to talk to manufacturers, the best thing I could do is actually go to a manufacturers conference or get in touch with the manufacturing extension program which are in every state, because they're already talking to my customers all the time and they're looking for people like me who can educate their folks. In so doing, what I'm going to do is get those folks to know me, trust me, like me, and then they're going to give me a call. So take those networks seriously, and don't be afraid of them and support them, and eventually, they'll support you.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I think I would say don't be afraid to step out and start a business now. For those of us who've never started a business, whether it's consulting or another business, it can often seem like a scary thing. My wife kind of heckled me about this. Because once I started one, and I was all of a sudden starting more and more, and partnering with people and trying some things. So she was like, "Can you stop making business and just focus on the ones that you have?" Well, they're all interrelated and each one special! So I'd say Don't, don't be afraid to take that step and create a company, even if you have to work your company and your job to make it happen. That's that would be the advice I'd give myself.
Do you have any final words of advice to offer our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
I like to say be fearless and be kind. Don't be afraid to reach out to people. You'd be surprised how many people actually will be receptive to you if you truly want to help.
Connect with Steve:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevefrazierrice/
Phone #: 541-821-2733
Meet Nicole
Over the past 30 years, Nicole has empowered 1000s of business owners and entrepreneurs to play to their strengths, grow their business, and make a greater impact. As a coach and strategic advisor, she is passionate about helping leaders shift their perspectives and solve complex business and relational issues with the aim of creating a better world for everyone. She is the founder of Discover The Edge and The Leaders of Transformation Podcast, reaching listeners in 140 countries.
What are the fundamental steps to creating transformation in our business and relationships?
I think it all starts with self-awareness and being present with yourself and others. Too often, we are so worried about what we're going to say and how we're going to say it, and what we look like, and all of that we lose connection with the person we're actually seeking to connect with. That's why self-awareness is really important. Presence with yourself and knowing how you're showing up and knowing also then recognizing what's going on for the other person. That's number one, number two, I would say is choosing to care. Having a real sincere interest, and empathy, and just an interest in what is going on with the other person. I think especially nowadays, we need to encourage each other because we don't know what people are going through. To have that spirit of encouragement for other people is really important. The third thing is follow-through. Do what you say, have integrity. If you're not going to do something, don't say you're going to do it. That goes for also saying things like "Oh, yeah, let's do lunch," when you know, in your mind, you're not ever planning to do that, well, then don't say it. Because what it does is number one, it breaks trust with them, because they actually might think that you're going to follow through on that and you don't. But even more importantly, it comes back to yourself, how do you feel about yourself. If I'm constantly saying things and not doing it, even if the other people don't, nobody else knows, I know. So it's really important in creating the transformation that we're looking to create that we have some foundational pieces in place. That applies to business, applies to relationships because of course, every business is a people business.
Can you talk about how we tailor communication and networking styles to match the different personality types that are out there?
It really comes down to going into the other person's world first. So often, we operate from our point of view, and you got to realize in order to connect and relate to different personality types, you have to understand how they receive information because communication is the response you get. Predominantly, I use the disc model of human behavior. That really describes the 4 primary personality types and there's Myers Briggs and all these different ones that you can use. I'll just give you a quick run through it. What's really cool about this tool is that you don't have an opportunity to meeting somebody new, you don't have an opportunity to have them do a full assessment, Myers Briggs to figure out what they are so that you know how to relate to them, you've got to have a way to connect quickly. So there are two questions you can ask yourself: Is this person more outgoing or more reserved? The second question is, are they more task-oriented, or people-oriented? You can get a sense of where they are operating, at least in the moment by answering those questions. So the outgoing task-oriented personality is the D personality and they are dominant. They like to get to the point, lead, and be in charge, they like results and they want to know what are we doing, where are we going, what are we going to make happen. The I personality, which is outgoing and people-oriented are the inspiring type. They like to have fun, and they like to express themselves, they like recognition, they're motivated by recognition, and they want to know who else is doing it. Who else is buying your product, who else is going to that event? The reserved and people-oriented personality is the S, the supportive type. They like to listen, they're people-oriented, but rather than the inspiring type that likes to talk, they like to listen, and they want to get to know you as a person, and they are motivated by harmony and how will this bring harmony? How will this help us work better together? Then the reserved and task-oriented personality, which is the cautious type, they like to learn, they like to be correct, they'll like process and procedure and bring value through details and they like quality. They believe that there's a right way to do things that are wrong ways to do things. So when we understand that there are four different ways to communicate or four different personality types, and of course, there are infinite combinations of all of that, we're all a blend of all four, when you understand that, you can start to relate to people more effectively. Then you can also understand how they make decisions. So a D personality, for example, will decide quickly, an I will decide emotionally, an S will decide slowly, the C will decide carefully. In fact, the C personality type is really the only personality type that really when they say let me think about it, they actually mean, let me think about it. A D will tell you no, generally speaking right off the bat, or they'll say yeah, and then they just want you to go away. The I of course, and the S, are more people-oriented and so forth. So when they say I'll think about it, it really means I don't want to hurt your feelings, I want you to like me, I want you to know that you're cared for and valued as an S personality type will think that. So if you understand how people are thinking and how it's translating on there, and you can go a long way in creating better communication and networking more effectively with other people.
What can we learn about building trust and value from some of our greatest leaders in history?
There are so many great leaders in history and as much as I talk a lot about a leadership crisis. Now, we also do have great leaders in this day and age as well. Some of my favorites are people like Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Mother Teresa, Abraham Lincoln, Jesus, Solomon, in the Bible, Moses. One of the things that when you look at it as it relates to what we're talking about here, which is social capital, building relationships, and what I wanted to point out was, how they related to others, and especially those who are against them. One of the things that they were definitely practicing is presence. They sought wisdom and understanding that we've also talked about, they realize the value of understanding people skills. Every business is a people business, life is full of relationships, you can't actually have success without other people being involved. Ultimately, life is all about relationships and they understand that and so they learn to develop those skills. Some of them weren't very good in the beginning, and they learned them over time. The other thing is empathy. They had a lot of empathy for people, and like I say, even those that were against them, and I think about Abraham Lincoln, he had one of a general in his army that he disliked and he said, "I don't like this person, I need to get to know them better." It's hard to not like somebody that is up close and that you get to know you start to realize how much commonality that you have. Patience is another thing is. We can learn patience from them. Gandhi was patient even with some of his own followers, who wanted to go off and get violent. I think of Nelson Mandela, 27 years in prison and coming out, and everybody thought that there's going to be hell to pay when he gets out. He came out and said, "No, that's not the way to lead, that's not the way to create reconciliation." Perseverance is another one and I think one of the most important things, especially nowadays is demonstrating responsibility. Our responsibility for communication, our responsibility to lead, and recognize that when we're talking about building trust and value these are the things that people need. I had a guest on my podcast recently, who talked about how you build trust, the speed of trust in businesses and he said that you build trust through predictability. So people know what to expect from you, they know that you're going to act a certain way. If you're unpredictable then it's hard for them to build trust with you. Building value is when you build value for others, you are, it's when you're going into the world, you're getting to know what's important to them and not just from an angle of what can I get. All of these leaders that I just described had outcomes, but they came from a perspective of what can I give, how can I support and encourage and see the best in other people, and as a result of that if you help enough people get what they want, you'll get what you want.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
So I've done a lot of networking. I started out my business when I was in my teens and I knew I wanted to be in business for myself. I didn't know what I wanted to do, or what it would all look like, but I just knew that I want to be in business for myself and I started selling things door to door. I went quickly from door to door to cold calling because it was more efficient. Then I discovered networking events and it was so cool because all of these people are were in one place and I could talk to them, and they were not doing their work so they would have time to talk. There are some fun examples of going into networking events and meeting people that were game-changers, or that led to another person. I'm from Toronto and I was going to a networking event. It was raining, and I was tired, it was almost nine o'clock and I thought I am done. So I left and then I realized I forgot my business cards because back in the day, you could put your business cards on this table and so I ran back to get my business card because if I value my business and I value my business cards, I'm not going to let them just be going to waste. So I go back to get them and on the way out the door the second time, I ran into a lady. Her name was Susan and we were both kind of half running to the car cars in the rain, but she introduced herself to me and asked what I do. I said that I was a business coach and she actually said that she was in need of one! We exchanged our contact information and one thing led to another she ended up becoming a client, she also introduced me to someone else, his name was Mike. Mike introduced me to and convinced me to go to BNI which I was not interested in doing at that point and to his chapter. From there I've met so many clients and people that I've mentored and it was such an incredible opportunity but it was being present to what's going on and taking the moment even though we were getting wet to take that moment and meet Susan and that was such a blessing. The second one was down here in California and I was living in LA and I got this message from someone on LinkedIn that I did not know who said that there was a seminar coming up and this guy is going to be speaking and he's super awesome. Normally, you get so many of those you ignore it, but this one something told me to go and so I went and it was Evan Money speaking, which is his real name by the way. I went, had a great time, followed up with him afterward, we got to know each other and he became a good friend. He's introduced me to several amazing people who have become some great friends of mine. I've introduced him to people, I've had him on my podcast a couple of times. He met some of the people and I referred him and he's gone and done business deals and events and masterminds with some of the people that he's met. It was such an incredible opportunity, but it started with me just listening. That person on LinkedIn, I never heard from them or spoke to them again. They were the messenger and that was it, but somehow something said, go to this event.
What advice would you offer the business professional who's looking to grow their network?
I would say there are three things. You need visibility, credibility, and consistency. So, visibility, you've got to establish your presence, you've can establish your online presence. You have a podcast, this gives you a lot of visibility, this also gives you credibility and consistency is that you don't just go and do a whole bunch of anything, and then stop. So it's having the visibility, making sure that people know you exist, because if people don't know you, how can they possibly hire you? How can they possibly even just get to know you and build a friendship or relationship with you, if they don't know you exist? So first of all, it's important to have that visibility. So maybe you start a podcast, maybe you guest on other podcasts, maybe you go online, and you reach out to other people, comment on other people's posts, and genuinely, not just to try to sell them something, but literally go into their world get interested in them. Your credibility is whatever your space is, what your passion is. As so you start to establish your credibility that way, establish it in a way where you're showing your value to others. I believe that every single person has value to bring and has value and a purpose to be here. Because I believe that God is a God of order and he's got an order, and it got a purpose. So if you're here, listening to this message, you have a purpose, and you have value. So it's finding out what that is and share it and you'll make the world a better place when you do.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
Take bigger risks. I fail forward faster. I wouldn't try to do it the right way. I think of Gary Vee, he encourages young people all the time, right? It's like just screw up, make mistakes, try things, see what you like, see what you don't like. That's the first thing and the second thing is to find a mentor and a coach, somebody to help you along the way that has been where you want to go and can give you perspective to save yourself a lot of time. Back then, there weren't mentors and coaches as accessible and as in the volume that there are now. So I always want a mentor I wanted somebody to just tell me what to do. I had to figure it out on my own and it took a lot longer to do it that way. When you find a mentor and a coach and that's what I get to now share with others what I've learned to save them a whole lot of trouble. I can share with you what you can do to compress that time. Is it still going to be an effort? Are you still going to need to go through trial and error and fail forward fast? Yes, you will. We can compress that time and you can learn from my experience or your experience or somebody else's experience with a mentor.
Do you have any final words of advice to offer our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
First of all, I'll say believe that you're enough. Believe that you're enough when you're going to know that you have value and believing that what you have to offer is valuable and who you are. I would encourage that because then when you're not so worried about your own enoughness, you can actually be with the other person and really hear what's going on. The other thing is from a practical standpoint, I've had people ask me and say how can you get so many referrals and I used to say that the very best way to get referrals is to give them. Don't just give them with the goal of getting something back. I would encourage people to give what they want to receive more back from.
Connect with Nicole:
Leaders of Transformation Website: https://leadersoftransformation.com/
Discover The Edge Website: https://www.discovertheedge.com/
KJ Eichstaedt
KJ is the Co-Founder of Ike Media, the international sports brand started in Wisconsin and is now found in 90 plus countries across the world. He's a designer, dealmaker, consultant, podcast host, video producer, and graduate of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee with degrees in International Business and Marketing. Words that describe KJ are optimist, bold, creative, and driven. KJ currently lives in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where he helps athletes, businesses, and individuals grow their brand.
Could you tell me about the origin of IKE and what you do?
IKE is an international brand that helps individuals, athletes, and businesses position and grows their brands through creative media vehicles and podcasting. We have an international reach, but we have local roots. On Twitter, there are a lot of people who follow IKE specifically for the IKE Packers podcast, or IKE badgers podcast, or our Brewers and Bucks podcasts which allows us to have a very strong local footprint because that's what we're all about. Home and family are some of our biggest values, but also having international backgrounds we work with anyone throughout the world. We enjoy being creative, we model and position all of our work after some of the highest brands in the world. We love helping anyone grow, helping them grow their business, helping them grow their brand, helping them bring their dream to life. They say the best companies have a story and we like to think of ourselves as the pen and paper to help them write that story.
Why do you think people in companies need that strong brand?
Frankly, people are starting to see through the BS. They're seeing that these companies aren't as sincere as they portray themselves as, and they aren't sure if these big Fortune 500 companies really care about them. People are getting smarter, they're getting smarter with their emotional intelligence, they're getting smarter with their actual intelligence and I think people in today's world which is so run with media and technology, crave a genuine connection which is why we're seeing a lot of local brands, regional media networks really rising up. The big fortune 500 companies really having to do a lot of whether it's donations, whether it's PR, they have to kind of prove to the world that they are actually good for the world. It just allows people to connect with the little guy, the local person down the street, the woman with the flower shop, the athlete who is going to Wisconsin who wants to take his dreams to the NFL. Everyone has a story and it's really hard to stand out in this digital landscape without one because there's just so much media. People have no shortage of it and the story is one of those things that cuts through the noise. It's really something you have to have and if you don't have one, you're behind the game.
What would you recommend are some of the best ways to build a brand in 2021?
At IKE we take an approach that's all about deeper connection. What I mean by that is, there are certain crazes going around, whether it's tik tok or Instagram. An overall trend is that video keeps getting shorter and shorter and shorter and shorter. We love data as a society, companies love data because it tells a story. What we try and cut through the noise of is that maybe you get a million views on a tik tok video, but maybe someone only watches it for seven seconds. How many of those people can you actually make a genuine connection and in seven seconds? How many of them are just going to scroll past and go and laugh at the next thing? We take the approach where in a world where long-form content seems to be getting pushed more and more to the back burner, we don't even care. We'd rather make 10 deep, meaningful connections with people we can help, form a relationship with, help them grow their dreams, help them follow their dreams, help them grow their business, their finances, whatever it might be, help them get in touch with a certain individual who they thought there's no way they would ever be able to get in a conversation with. We produce results and it really starts with that long-form approach in actually getting a connection. So if someone even has 100 listens on a podcast episode, for example, those people are essentially spending 30 minutes in the room with you. If you spend 30 minutes in a room with someone, you can really connect with them and then you might have a relationship, you might have something that can benefit you both whether it's, a mutual friend, or maybe it's something like a business deal. It could be all of those things, but we take a quality over quantity approach and we're really not afraid to show it because we've worked with some of the most incredible athletes in the world, frankly, and that helps us gain credibility.
Can you share one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
Growing up, I would wake up in the mornings on Saturdays and I remember as a family we would watch the Badger game. Sometimes we would even be able to go to the Badger football game in Madison. They were 11 o'clock games and you would have to get up super early and get on the road. At that age, I probably wasn't very enthusiastic about it, but I would go to these games and it had an impact on me early on, whether I realized it or not. It all started with one connection. We met someone, we formed a genuine connection and he happened to be a player on the team. Instead of making relationships transactional, Brian Anderson emphasizes making relationships, not transactional. You can't approach relationships transactionally because it'll just never work. But basically, we ended up meeting this one guy and he ended up being the first athlete guest to come on our show. We've since turned it into dozens and dozens of athletes by producing high-quality content, providing value, leveraging opportunities of a brand, leveraging connections and now we work with athletes all across the board and are able to tell their stories on our podcasts, which help us gain credibility in the eyes of people in business, you know, people with their own companies, people with their own practices, such as the real estate market. We've actually had clients of ours have the Top Producing real estate agents, and also the Top Producing real estate team, that leader on his podcast. So it doesn't really matter what field it's in, if you apply the appropriate tactics, if you lead with value, if you do a good job, if you form a genuine connection if you actually try and help people and show them what they can gain the sky's the limit. If I were to go back when I was a kid and tell myself, "Hey, you'd be talking to these guys pretty frequently," I would have said, "No way you're lying!" It's really opened my eyes to just the possibilities of it all. Networking can change someone's life, whether it's a job or something else. You might apply to 100 jobs, but you might have a phone call with someone you know and that might be the door opening that actually leads you to an opportunity that is worthwhile, and you follow up on. We've seen podcasts turn into this vehicle that allows people to both benefit while also connect. It's just been this unbelievable experience and cultivated in front of our own eyes, whether it's the IKE Podcast Network, or whether it's even podcasting in general. Over 200 million Americans are familiar with podcasting and over half of Americans have listened to a podcast increasing exponentially each year. Really, the key is starting. It doesn't matter if you have 10 people listen. If you have 10 people in your podcast, that's still like you doing 10 meetings a day and that's pretty impressive. But once you start to work at it, and you get up to 100 listeners, you get up to 1000 listeners, that's when the benefits are really unbelievable. It's almost like you don't know what the possibilities are until you jump into the arena. I encourage everyone if they're a little worried about if it will actually work, if you stick with it it's going to create a lot of positive opportunities.
What advice would you offer that business professional who's really looking to grow their network?
I think you have to be willing to do it. Podcasting is one of these ways to do it that applies to today's world, in regards to someone looking to grow their network. A lot of the people, whether it's a kid, whether it's a CEO, are afraid to put their image out there. They see what goes on online, they know they have to network online, they know if they just network in person they might be missing out on valuable opportunities. But really, for better, for worse, most likely for worse, online isn't always the nicest place to be. There might be cyberbullying there might be whatever going on. I find that a lot of business leaders, a lot of professionals, love podcasting as this opportunity because they don't necessarily have to put their face out there. They can still give themselves to an audience in a deep, long-form, meaningful way, without having to be in the camera. Some CEOs are like, "Hey, I'm a great business person, but I'm not an actor, I'm not a movie star," well, they love podcasting because it allows them to thrive in that role. I think was LeBron James who said, "Be a star in your role," and some people are meant to be stars in podcasts, some people are meant to be on TV, some people are meant to be on the radio, some people are meant to, and people are meant to connect online in person. This is one of those ways that really allows people to touch on all those points.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less than or differently with regards to your professional career?
I think you can always tell yourself to be patient. I think you can always tell yourself that you're going to maybe have to reinvent a few things. IKE originally started off as a sports website. I was seeing all the fake news being spewed by ESPN, I was seeing how they were covering the Oscar Pistorius trial and it wasn't really about the sports. So I saw an opportunity to cover this in a blog format, more like an article format to be accurate. We made this beautiful website we modeled after Apple and Tesla and ended up being called IKEsportreport and we put all these beautiful articles on the site in various categories, but we didn't really have an audience yet to read these articles. So from there, we had to reinvent in a sense, and we started working at building a following. We found that sportspeople who love what we're offering existed a lot on Twitter. What that meant was a reinvention of what the original concept of IKE was. What ended up happening from there is these Twitter accounts gained a lot of popularity, but even then, we didn't want to just be a popular Twitter account, we had to be more so we evolved into podcasts. If I were to go back and tell myself anything, I think I would preach patience. I think I would preach being open to adapting and evolving. I think I would tell myself that it's going to work out and you're not going to regret this when you're 90. As I go back to that story about watching the Badgers going up and now talking to them, and potentially unveiling something special with some of them, potentially, in the future, it's all just like, pinch me moments, and I definitely don't consider myself someone who has made it by any means. I've got a long way to go, but I don't think I'm going to regret that I didn't try and follow my passion when I'm older.
I understand you have an offer for our listeners today?
We have some really cool things we're doing in the podcast world. We're actually going into this phase in our business where we're able to take on more clients. No matter what size your business is, whether you want a basic package, we're actually offering some specials right now, where if you want to pay in bulk, we offer some pretty hefty discounts, to say the least. I think one thing that's also becoming more and more relevant in today's world is a subject matter expert’s time, right? So it's not even just the act of getting a podcast or getting a brand, it's the act of you know, really working with people who have cultivated brands and are doing it at a level that makes them proud and something that you can truly own and be proud to show off because that sometimes doesn't show up in the value proposition. I love working with people from all different backgrounds and I'm excited to keep work with some new people. You need a story to connect with someone, you need a story to grow your business, you just a story to sell products or just a story to meet people. I would encourage everybody just to start. We've been doing podcasts for a long time and we have cultivated some great audiences, we've charted top 40 multiple times, we've been listened to in over 90 different countries, we've had professional athletes, collegiate athletes, CEOs, entrepreneurs, you name it, and we'd love to help anyone listening today who might be saying, "Hey, maybe video isn't my bread and butter, but I do have an incredible story and I'm ready to tell that story in a certain way. I'm ready to work with someone to do that." I'd love to help.
Connect with KJ
Website: https://www.ikepodcastnetwork.com/
Email: kjeichstaedt@gmail.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kenneth-john-eichstaedt/
Meet Colleen
Colleen is an award-winning peak performance consultant with over 20 years of experience, has launched over 340 businesses, is an international speaker, author of a number one international bestseller, Anatomy of Accomplishment and Step Into The Spotlight To Expand Your Influence. The CEO of three businesses, including Lead Up For Women, a community that boasts 10s of 1000s of female entrepreneurs that are driven by their passions, support and promote others with the purpose to fuel female voices.
Why is joining a community essential for growth in a business?
Let's just think about anyone who's ever launched a business or anything we've ever done in our lives out there. When we worship, we go in a community to a church, right? When we learn, we are in a classroom, or we're in a group of children. When we are learning a sport, we drop our children off at sports teams that have a coach. If you think about everything we do in our life, it's all about the team, it's all about the community. Football teams would be nothing if they didn't have the community of the supporters that they have that are their fans. So when we think about that, it shares a different light on what community is. When we move into a neighborhood, we move into a neighborhood to be part of the community. We were born to crave others and community. With that being said, when you're launching a business, it's one of the hardest times of your life. It really is like when you're having a family or getting married or doing something new that you've never done before. Imagine doing that on your own. I think about traveling and hiking Mount Everest, something I've always wanted to do and I know that if I had a guide if I had a community of people that were supporting me and given me advice, I would be able to do it step after step, day after day to put those pieces together with that map. So many people tried to do this feat of building a business on their own, and why not tap into the likes of others who've already done it before you? Why not learn from them? Why try and reinvent the wheel all by ourselves and not utilize the fuel of a community that can open up so many doors for you and create additional exposure for you?
What are the biggest hurdles that women face as entrepreneurs?
It's different than what men face. It has to do with our makeup of centuries and centuries and decades and decades of how we were raised. I was even raised in my younger years to get married, have babies, not to start a business. That's not how my mom raised me. So if we go back decades and centuries, the females have always been mothers and nurturers, right? That's why we have the ability to have babies and the men are the providers. So with that being said, they have this view of building businesses as providing for their families and that's why they're doing it. The only reason why they're doing it most of the time is to provide for other people, whether it be their employees or their family. Women are nurturers, so because we tend to nurture, we nurture our clients, we nurture those people around us, we nurture our contacts when we're networking, we are actually some of the best business builders out there, but we lack self-esteem and the self-confidence for what the worth piece is. The worth piece is about selling your products, knowing that someone else out there needs them, that you're solving a problem. I've seen this across the board that so many women struggle with their worth of bringing in a million dollars as an entrepreneur because it scares them. They don't feel like they have that ability to be this powerful businesswoman, and a mother and a wife and a sister and an aunt, etc. So we struggle with identities and I say we because I've been through this already, I struggled as my children got older and moved out of the home because I identified as a mother and I put Colleen on a shelf somewhere where she got really dusty. Then when I brought her and dusted her off, it was like What do you like? What colors do you like? Where do you like to shop for clothes? What type of food do you like to eat? When you're raising children you adapt to what it is that your children are doing and it's almost like we become the mother but forget that we're an individual as a female. Keeping that identity is so important because by permitting ourselves to be who we are, we permit our children to be who they are meant to be, we give others around us that we're modeling to that permission to be who they want to be and it's just a beautiful gift.
Why is exposure important for female entrepreneurs?
One thing I've taught all the CEOs that I've worked with was to tell everybody about you and that's why I love that you're so connected in the networking side of things and promote networking so heavily. You mentioned at the beginning about reciprocity and I really believe in the reciprocity rule of giving first to someone else and opening up a door connecting them to someone. Through networking, we can do that, we can connect with other people, we can get ourselves out there and meet people. I look at the world that I'm in now as being an entrepreneur for the last several years compared to what I was when I was in corporate America, and I'm not even surrounded by the same people. We talked about this earlier, but your network is your net worth, right? You want to be asking people that started a business before you or have already created a community. I can't tell you how many women I interviewed, that created female communities and just dug in to say, Tell me how you did it. I remember before I published my first book, I met someone that had 11 and I simply asked how they did it. When I met my first Millionaire, I sat him down and said, "Okay, teach me how to become a millionaire." I want to learn from others that have done it before me and unless you get out there unless you ask, you don't get. Unless you tell everyone about you, they don't know who you are. I love it when I hear people say to me, "Oh my gosh, I see you everywhere, how do you ever have time to do what you do?" I love it when they say that because it's not necessarily that I'm showing up everywhere, but the point is, we're, we're showing up on all these outlets that people are utilizing for information all the time. When people consistently see you, they're like, "What the heck, what is this person about? I want to learn more." Then when you're not at an event that maybe you go to regularly, and then before you know it, you're getting phone calls or emails, and someone will say, "Wow, everyone was talking about you at the event," and I realize that now I'm becoming a brand and becoming someone that people are sharing my community and what I'm doing because they know the benefit of that and they think other people should be involved. That doesn't happen when you sit behind your computer and become a keyboard warrior. It doesn't happen when you put your head down and just stay quote, unquote, busy. It happens when you're out there and you're talking one too many.
Can you share with our listeners your most successful or favorite networking experience that you've had?
I teach this in some of the groups that I work with because I know how important networking is. So I think tip number one is just be yourself. So many women asked me how do I stand out from all the other women that are there in the networking room or the Zoom Room? How do I stand out? It's not like you have to wear bright red glasses or have your hair bright pink or wear a certain shirt to stand out or bright bold earrings. You don't have to have that, you just need to show up as you. When you are you and you show up authentically as yourself you're relaxed, you're confident, you're self-assured and that comes through, that energy comes through the camera. It comes through the way that you're walking into a room and people will notice you because your shoulders are back, your chin is up because you're self-assured you feel confident about who you are. You're not apologizing, you're not worrying about what anyone else thinks because it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. So when you walk into a room or show up in a Zoom Room, tip number one, just be yourself. Second tip if you are on zoom and this is just a side tip, please make sure your background is not your unmade bed. That's like the worst thing I would have to say, be in a professional setting. So have a white background, or maybe it has a logo, you can print off your logo or have something in the background that could be some books. People notice what is in the background when you're on zoom. The other thing is, I'm the first person to speak up when I walk into a room, or if I'm in a Zoom Room. So I'll walk up to someone and say, "Hi, my name is Colleen, what's your name?" So I reach out and put my hand out for a firm handshake. If we can't do that in person, and we're doing that on zoom, right when they move us into breakout rooms, I'm the first person to unmute myself, turn my video on and I start welcoming everyone in the room and I just start asking questions. Then right away, because I'm talking people think she's the leader of the room. I'll say, "Well, it looks like they said we had 20 minutes, does anyone want to keep time? I think we could just go around the room and everyone introduce themselves. It looks like we've got times however many people in this room three minutes each." Someone will volunteer to take the time and I'll say, "We'll just start with Lori, and after you're done in your three minutes or up why don't you volunteer the next person? What that does is it starts connecting the room. Lori gets to go first and after her three minutes are up, she looks around, and then someone she's drawn to she will volunteer to go. Then all of a sudden everyone's laughing which cohesively brings the group together. I always go last because I don't want anyone to feel like they're picked last on the softball field. You don't have to be the one last I always bring up the caboose and then I tie it all together about something that each person said and an impression that they made. Then the last tip I would give you that is to follow up and follow through. This is where I see that most individuals, including males and females, really falter in the follow-up and the follow-through. I can't tell you, Lori, how many networking events I've been to and no one follows up with me. I follow up with everybody and that is just horribly wrong. But when I do follow up with them, and I say that it was great meeting them and I'll say one thing I remember about them when I met them, whether they said something funny, or their cat jumped up on their computer, or they had awesome earrings on whatever it was. Then I say that I'd love to chat with them and get to know them better when we're not crunched for time. About 99% of those people I follow up with book a call with me because they want you to remember them and I remembered them I said something about them. I never approach it in a salesy way and approach it from the perspective of just connecting and seeing if there's something I can help them with or if there's a door I can help open for them. I think the other piece is when you are offering something for someone in person or a zoom breakout room, don't make it confusing for them. Just drop a link in there for them to book a call with you or a download. Find what is it that you could offer them that would be the best thing at the moment for them to connect with you and then for you to continue nurturing them. Don't drop every Facebook link, you have every Instagram link you have on your YouTube. It would be like walking into a room and throwing your business cards across the room and say call me and then walk out, we don't do that. So connect with people, care about people, show them that you care, and they'll show you that they care.
How do you stay in front and best nurture your network?
I do that in several different ways. I do the podcast every week and interview members so that my community, including my community on the podcast, is getting tips like your community of interviewing people on different subjects. I do a bi-monthly magazine that our members write articles in and we digitally send that out to all of our members so that they can read the different articles and really take away so many tools in the business and leadership and lifestyle sections of the magazine, we even have a philanthropy section of our magazine. I invite my community to other communities. I have a very abundant mindset and by inviting them to other communities and showing them that it's important for them to expand their influence to attract the right clients beyond lead up for women. Because if I'm talking about how showing up everywhere, and networking everywhere and so important, it would be wrong of me to lock them down in my community. We do weekly teaching Tuesdays and each week a different member comes forward and teaches about different subjects in our lives. Today we talked about sleep, it could be more about your business and business insurance. Sometimes we're talking about tips on leadership. So a different member comes forward every Tuesday, teaches a free workshop and I attend those, I host those along with our members. I do member Monday spotlights every Monday where I interview a different member in our community, for them to offer to our community, a way for us to add additional tools to our toolbox. I'm always out there on Facebook Lives, I'm out there teaching whenever I can, I love to do one-minute teaches in the morning where it's like the word of the day, and put it out there and just have fun with it. There are so many little things that we can do, of the years that we've been in business and the skills that we've learned and honed in over the years that we can share with other people. Most of us just tend not to do it. I don't know if it's because we're lazy, or we just don't feel comfortable on camera. But another tip for your listeners is people don't want the perfect you. They just want you and I've gotten on camera and cried before. I've gotten on camera and laughed before, I've gotten on camera and forgotten what to say before. If you would just get out there and get out in front of your communities so they could get to know who you are. It's just amazing to me how many people really want a peek into your world and what you're doing. That's the likable factor and that's how we get people to like us and know us. We can't stay hidden. You just can't stay hidden.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I would have said quit corporate America today for one. But I needed to be in corporate America to learn a lot of the skills that I gained. The other piece is patience. I was so caught up in what was happening around me that I fell out of control a lot. We are all in control of our realities. We're in control of our mindset, we're in control of the choices that we make every day. Whether we work for somebody or not, we're still in control of our choices. So 20 years ago, I had a lack of patience, I felt like everything that happened around me was happening to me, and I just had to navigate through what was happening. The truth of the matter is, that's not what reality is. The reality is you can choose how you feel, you can choose how you react to a situation. We have choices, we have freedom of time and we also need to be patient. We're on God's time, that's just what it comes down to and we try to force things that it's just not the timing for. So that's probably what I would say to myself 20 years ago.
Do you have any final word or advice to offer listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
I'm glad you said growing because the one thing that I would like to leave with your listeners would be this: If learning is beneath you, then leadership is beyond you and you should always be out there for growth for yourself, growth for your company growth for your employees and growth for the people that you serve. How can you be learning and growing to be helping and impacting the world in a positive way?
Connect with Colleen
Join The Lead Up For Women Community: https://www.leadupforwomen.com/
Sign up for a Lunch-N-Learn Networking Event and use the code guestlnl to register 3 months in advance! https://www.leadupforwomen.com/lunch-n-learn
Why is marketing automation so important?
Marketing automation is something I have been an advocate of for a long time and people often ask me why it is so important. Marketing automation is the future of marketing and it is already happening because everyone wants to create efficiencies within their marketing efforts. When you think about marketing automation, it allows you to do more with fewer resources. The trend in marketing and business, in general, is to create efficiency and you can improve your overall customer experience with automation. One statement I saw online that I liked was it streamlines your digital marketing efforts, which ultimately reduces human error and helps to achieve better results. Instead of performing these manual repetitive processes, you're able to focus more on strategic tasks, such as planning, design, goal development, conducting research, establishing your brand, and consistency.
What is marketing automation?
I like the definition that Salesforce gives: Marketing automation is a technology that manages marketing processes, and multifunctional campaigns across multiple channels automatically. Let's dive into that a little bit. I want to break up some of these words and get clear on what exactly is the depth of this definition for you. So technology nowadays, this is typically a web-based solution that used to be more of a canned packaged solution from a CRM automation standpoint, but it's web-based and it could come in many shapes, sizes, price ranges, and offerings from its doing a little bit, to do the whole gamut of things. Marketing processes consist of many things and have unique definitions based on the goals and the objectives of an organization, but at its core, marketing processes are a mix of managing your contacts and your leads, your content marketing, measuring, and analysis. The next statement in that definition was multifunctional campaigns and a variety of these activities can take place at once. So for example, at this very moment, the marketing automation system that we have going on, we have our guided profits campaign, our manufacturing white paper campaign, webinar attendees campaign, the campaigns for this specific podcast as well as another podcast that we have in house, we have our monthly newsletter, and many more. So we have eight different campaigns happening simultaneously that are being tracked independently, and automatic functions are happening. The last component is the multiple channels. So marketing automation allows you to manage emails, social media, video calls, and ultimately, you can keep track of any traditional direct mail activities as well.
The basics of marketing automation
I want to cover a few high-level basics of marketing automation that will help you master any sort of automation within your CRM tool.
Quality information is key
First and foremost, it all comes down to the quality of the information that you have going into the system, which will give you quality information out. You want to make sure that your leads and your contacts and all that information is really clean. So the basics of any system along these lines are collecting data and making sure that you're inputting quality data related to the name, the email, the company, phone number, mailing address, and whatnot. One of the things that the systems can do which is really powerful is going beyond just the type of activity that they're doing and providing you actionable insights so you can actually target your leads with more personalized information. For example, if you see a certain individual is engaging heavily with a certain type of content that you're sharing, then you can have targeted content that is going to continue to engage them as opposed to keeping them on a general list and sharing general information to them.
Creating lists and segmenting your contacts
Another component that's important, and I see a lot of businesses not necessarily implementing this practice is creating different lists and segmenting your contacts. There are two different types of lists: manual lists and dynamic lists and what you want to do is make sure that you're grouping your contacts based on your interest or demographics, maybe how long we've been engaged with you. At the end of the day, this is an opportunity for you to continue to push the right types of information to the right audience. Manual lists are pretty straightforward as if I want to create a list with just my contacts from Wisconsin, I can add them to their own list while excluding contacts who are not from Wisconsin. A good practice that I recommend is creating manual lists of contacts who are your clients and then one with contacts who are not your clients so you can easily start messaging your established people versus those that have not. Dynamic lists, on the other hand, are one of the great features of marketing automation. You can automate that segmenting of your list based on several things such as how they're engaging with you on the website if they've been involved in a live chat with you on your site or automated chat, how they're engaging with the email that you're sending out if they filled out forms. There are many different ways that you can create automatic rules and start segmenting your contacts based on how they're acting at the end of the day.
Keep your lists clean
For the longest time, I think people were focused on creating as large of a list as possible. Although I am an advocate of creating a big list, what's more important than the size of your list is the quality. If you don't clean your list regularly, just like anything else in life, you notice, there's going to be some toxic things that start happening. You want to make sure that you're scrubbing your list and that will help you to reduce your marketing costs because some platforms charge you based on the size of your list. It will also help you reduce the spam complaints that you have because you know that these individuals that you're sending to want to hear from you and it's actually going to help you increase your open and click-through rates.
How to scrub your lists
First off, you want to check for either a hard bounce or a soft bounce. So basically, you sent an email and it came back saying this email doesn't exist. So there's a difference between the hard guns and the soft bounces are the hard bounces saying an email does not exist at all and it was a true invalid email address. The soft bounces are saying that maybe their inbox was full, or they put an out of office on there, or there was just a server glitch. So that means that this email was working previously, but it no longer is. I would start by first looking at your hard bounces, and just confirming that they're spelled correctly, and if they're legitimately no longer working, then just remove them from the list altogether. Another way to clean up your list is to send a re-engagement email. What you're doing with that is reaching out and asking if the contact is interested in continuing to hear from you and if they are please acknowledge by clicking or replying to something along those lines. But if no one's acknowledging at that point, then just remove them from the list or segment them into a different low response type of list as well. You want to review your most active lists first when you're cleaning up those lists and check for any duplicates. Also remove any role-related emails such as emails that begin with info, account, or support. Really focus on getting to a specific person that you're sending to and make sure to double-check for any typos. Another thing that you could consider is using a third-party service for mail cleaning. There are a number of them that are available and if you just go to Google and type in email scrubbing service, you're going to find a lot of options that are available to you. But again, the quality of your email is going to be extremely important to the long-term results that you have at the end of the day.
The future of marketing automation: Artificial intelligence
There is a lot of conversation around how AI is going to integrate with marketing automation tying into not only your CRM or automation tool but also going a little bit deeper into some of that conversation like a chatbot, for example. AI is going to tie in and you're going to learn about how to respond and how to anticipate how customers are going to react to the message by utilizing predictive analytics which at the end of the day will help improve customer satisfaction.
The future of marketing automation
Marketing automation will always continue to evolve and is here to stay for the long haul. There are powerful technologies like machine learning big data-enabled predictive analytics, and it's going to help marketers become more efficient in their job. At the end of the day, however, I really want to emphasize that human relationships are still at the heart of all marketing activities and no automation will ever bridge the gap between you and your clients. Marketing automation is here to help us create efficiencies to help us through that process!
Meet Roger
Roger is a motivational speaker who helps you create teams and companies people don't want to leave. You hire him for his expertise in emotional intelligence and appreciation. He doesn't give up on people, he believes they will find a way to move forward and improve. Roger lives in Madison, Wisconsin, and currently serves as the president of the National Speakers Association of Wisconsin Chapter. He loves to travel bike and read science fiction. He's a big fan of baseball, pinball, and all things Tesla.
Can you just tell us what is emotional intelligence?
You bet! It started with Daniel Goleman who has been called the father of emotional intelligence. Quite simply, it is your self-awareness and your social awareness. So following Goleman, there are two parts of self. There's the self-awareness part and the self-management part, right? How we're aware of ourselves and how we manage ourselves. Then the social part is how we're aware of others, how we respond to others, their emotions, their actions, their behaviors. Then the other component in there is relationship building, hmmm, Social Capital much? That's how emotional intelligence is defined and then Goldman and others also put components of empathy into emotional intelligence.
Tell me a little bit about how you got into speaking because this is kind of the main offering that you provide, correct?
Right. I got into speaking and training and I got back into it actually. So way back early in my career, I was into training. I actually trained on all things Microsoft, I trained on operating systems, spreadsheets, Word, PowerPoint and then I also dabbled in a little bit of programming, and then I was also a resident expert on databases. So I love training and I love seeing the lights come on for people. So fast forward into a career in tech support and then while I was in tech support, I got recruited into project management and that's how I fell into project management. So I did that for a number of years and I got really good at both the science and the art of project management, I got into the soft skill and the tech part, but I found that I really had this passion for the soft skill part like facilitating and how we get people past barriers and how we get them to do work. So at my last job about six years ago, they were downsizing, and rather than playing the roulette wheel and figuring out where I wanted to go next in project management, I'm like, you know what? I want to get back into the speaking and the training! I decided that was a great time to start my business. I never knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur, but it was like this calling to get back up on stage. The more I got up on stage, the more I realized it was, I originally thought, you know, there was this big thing, like, you're going to be in lights, it's about you, and blah, blah, blah, and applause applause applause and I was totally wrong. It's about the audience and the people and creating that connection and that emotional spark and sharing knowledge with them, and seeing the lights come on for them that way. So it was about six years ago, that I decided to hang out my own shingle and get back into the world of professional speaking.
Can you share the difference between emotional intelligence and communication?
It's interesting to put them into both categories because I get that question a fair amount. So if we go back to what I was saying before, a couple of key components are of emotional intelligence are how you show up. One of the ways we show up is how we communicate. So we all have choices about how we communicate, the words we use, the expressions we use, the body language we consciously or subconsciously use. So just because we're communicating doesn't necessarily mean that we have emotional intelligence, and vice versa. I think the two are definitely intertwined. Don't get me wrong, they are intertwined. For example, one of the things that happen when I deliver emotional intelligence programs is I'll get somebody who comes up to me afterward probably about 40-50% of the time and they say, "Oh, this is great, Rojer, could you give this for my manager?" So I say, "Ok, that's wonderful that may be the case so tell me what's challenging you hear," and they say, "I think I'm a great communicator," and I say, "Fantastic, can you give me an example of how you communicate with your manager?" They think the manager might be the problem and they might be, but then a number of times, I've gotten this where they say, "I tell them everything that's on my mind," and I ask for an example. Then they say "Well my manager told me that we should manage up to them so I managed up and I really just gave them a ton of feedback." So I say, "I think we're talking about here might be candor versus communication and it might be the style in which you're delivering it." Come to find out, there's more to it than just the manager needs to come to this. What I say is I would love to give out these little mirrors, because a lot of the time if we look into ourselves, that's the first part of emotional intelligence and everything else can build from there.
Can you share with our listeners your most successful or favorite networking experience that you've had?
So as you mentioned in the intro, I'm a member of The National Speakers Association, and we get together every year at a big event called Influence. About 1000 people go to a huge event, and I love it. The first time I went I was overwhelmed. Now for introverts, 1000 people is a lot of people and it can be a daunting experience. That first day was my favorite because I went up and I just consumed as much as I could. At a good networking event, we don't just go and give everybody your business card, that's not networking. But I was going with the intent to listen and pick out one good thing that I could take away from every person that I met and I went with the intent of asking just one good question. My question was if you were starting out in this business, what would you do differently today? That was my question to everybody. So I had this pool of answers to the same question. I loved the event because everybody was so welcoming and receptive to whatever question we had. It was more than just going to the seminars, it was the hallway conversations where the magic happens. I really enjoyed the event because people would create, and I didn't make this up, they would create croissants instead of bagels. What that means is we think about the shape of a croissant, a croissant is what? It's a semi-circle, right? So people always inviting you in instead of the bagel or the donut which is closed. I didn't bring that up. I love that the event was set up that way and that the people going to the event in networking were allowed to participate if they wanted to.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture this community that you've created?
A couple of ways. LinkedIn is the place where I see my network. I try to comment on content as much as I can. I'm always trying to up my game by providing something new, and I will be my own critic and say, I don't do that as often as I should. It might help to have some marketing strategy and tactics behind that. The other strategy that I'm employing is networking, through email marketing, or email newsletters, and content, things like that. So again, always trying to up my game there. That's how I stay in front of my people as much as possible.
What advice would you offer that business professional who is really looking to grow their network?
Don't be afraid to talk to people. If you like going to events, go to an event intentionally, with at least three solid things that you want to get out of it, and think about three people that you want to meet, they can be intertwined. I would say be as visible as you can in the markets that you want to be seen in. I wasn't always good at this at the beginning because I was trying to be everything to everybody. As we know, that doesn't work. Once I started narrowing in on people who were receptive to my message, where companies that were getting taken over, or companies that were going through a lot of change, or leaders who were recently promoted or moved to a new area, that's where I could come in and help because when we're faced with change, that's where I can come in and help keep people from leaving. If you've just inherited a new team or something, that's where I come in. So it was putting myself in there, either in the social networks or just making initial conversations. I have a series of outreach that I do until I can get a conversation with them so that we can see if we're for each other. So my advice is to be persistent and be in front of the people who are for you and will buy you.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I would tell myself to talk less and listen more. I'd also tell myself, don't be afraid to put yourself out there. Be your real, genuine, authentic self when you put yourself out there don't hide behind all kinds of stuff. When I went into my professional career, I would go into meetings, and I would try to say something no matter what, just for the sake of saying something to be seen to be visible. It wasn't until later on when somebody coached me in my mid-20s to listen more and talk less. I realized that I didn't have to say something to get noticed. That's when I first started learning about emotional intelligence and that's what I've been telling myself.
Do you have any final word or advice to offer listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
Be as open as you can and show up as you! The only way you're going to grow your network is to introduce yourself to people and just break down those walls and have good conversations with people be interested in them.
Connect with Roger
Phone: 608-279-5160
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rogerwolkoff/
Website: https://rogerwolkoff.com/
Email: roger@rogerwolkoff.com
Meet Katie
Katie is the founder of Paper Lime Creative, a branding, and design agency in Edmonton. Her love of design and art took shape and a young age and since then she has been soaking in as much knowledge about art, business, and design as she can. She takes the time to listen to people's unique stories and goals to deliver stand-out work. It's one of many reasons why Paper Lime Creative is known as a collaborative design agency.
What is branding and why is it important?
I define branding as every interaction people have with your business. So there's often a misconception that your logo is your brand, but it's actually a lot more than that. So it's our job at Paper Lime Creative to make sure that those touchpoints that your clients have with your business are impactful and meaningful and get you the right customers to serve.
How does a business owner start that branding process?
We recommend that business owners start that process by figuring out who they want to work with and who that ideal customer is and what that ideal customer is buying so you can put the right time and effort into marketing the right product or service that you have and marketing it to the right people because that's where you'll get the biggest returns on your branding.
How can branding help networking?
Branding can help your networking because it helps you know where to go. I have a great client story for this. I was working with a good friend of mine on really defining her ideal customer. We realized all of her customers were the same type of person, they all dress the same and I joked that I realized that they all have really well-kept beards. So now when she goes to a networking event, she can go and physically find those people. She knows what they look like and chances are they'll be in an industry that she can work with.
So really understanding your customers is important, right?
Absolutely because then she can know what networking events to go to or where to show up online for networking. Like you were talking about LinkedIn in your intro and then to know what people to introduce herself to in those events. It saves you so much time. Obviously building relationships and just growing your network is important, but if you're looking to convert someone to a client from a networking event, knowing who to walk up to and introduce yourself is really important.
Can you share the story behind the name of your business?
I say it's our fresh and fun approach to print design and branding. So my background started in print design and then it evolved into everything else because you can do quite a bit with print design, but you can help your client way more when you understand the brand strategy behind it.
Can you share one of your favorite networking stories or experiences that you've had?
I think my favorite networking experiences are when you realize how small it all is. The six degrees of separation, which I think they're saying is more like three or four. I had one actually where an old friend of mine that I hadn't seen or heard from in years had actually married someone that I was actively networking with. I found out after the fact, which and I was like, "I didn't realize you were married to her!" We worry so much about getting business or meeting people or having to be extroverted and put ourselves out there. But it's all about relationships at the end of the day and I think some of those fun coincidences make life so interesting.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture your network and your community?
On an ongoing basis, I track who I network with, and be sure to send follow-up emails or book follow-up coffee dates. I think it's just making a part of your regular schedule. I always have some sort of networking event or a one on one coffee booked with someone in my calendar. It's just a part of doing business and I can't imagine a week where there isn't something in there.
What advice would you offer your business professionals who are really looking to grow their network?
I would say try something new. I think we can get really comfortable with what our networking routine looks like and that's great, especially to build those long-term relationships. But to put yourself into a new market or into a new experience can be really valuable. Everyone moving to online meetings because of COVID has been super beneficial from a networking perspective because now you can visit a networking group wherever. I've been to networking groups in Europe while in Canada and it's really limitless now. So I think if you're wanting to grow just try something new. As for me, joining a charity board is something I've never done, but have thought about getting exposed to a new group of people.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I probably would have told my 20-year-old self to network. I didn't start out working till I was 25 or 26. So definitely more of that and I would also tell me to stop doubting myself. I think once you get into your business, you realize that nobody really knows what they're doing. Everyone's learning and growing as they go, and no one's 100% ready for the next step.
You brought up the six degrees of separation. Who would be the one person that you would love to connect with and do you think you could do it within the sixth degree?
I have always wanted to meet Paula Scher from Pentagram. She is most well known for designing the Citibank logo and the Boston More Than a Feeling album cover. She's a phenomenal graphic designer, and I totally think I could. I don't know what those six degrees are, but I have emailed her assistant and even though I got a no, it was still a good step. I think my next step would be going through a line of other industry designers because I probably know a designer who knows her and could maybe try that angle.
You have an offer to share with our listeners, right?
I do! On the Paper Lime Creative website piperlime.ca, we have a free brand audit that you can download and it goes through all the different parts of your brand. So it's a great tool to use and we recommend doing it every two or three years. Brands are always growing and changing and it's never a one and done with your brand. So if you want to take a look and review your brand, check out that free download.
Do you have any final word or advice to offer our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
Be yourself and get curious about other people and it all falls into place after that.
Connect with Katie
Email: katie@paperlime.ca
Website: https://paperlime.ca/
Instagram: @paperlimecreative
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/paper-lime-creative/
Meet Claire
Claire is a personal brand strategist and the CEO and Co-Founder of Claire Bahn Group. She has been helping high-achieving entrepreneurs, investors, founders, and executives create their best personal brand for over 10 years. As an entrepreneur and influencer with over 70,000 followers on social media, she has learned the importance of creating and maintaining your personal brand. Claire helps entrepreneurs leverage their personal brand to develop the authority, influence, and trust they need to exceed their business goals.
Can you share what personal branding is and why it matters to you so much?
Basically, there are so many different nuances of personal branding. But really your basic personal brand is essentially what people think about you when they do a Google search on you or they meet you for the first time in person. It's literally someone's initial reaction to you, and how they feel about you whether they want to work with you and that sort of thing. So that's your baseline personal brand.
How can entrepreneurs and SMBs boost revenue by showcasing their subject expertise and leveraging their authority?
I always look at personal branding from an aspect like when we sign on a client, we take a strategic approach to personal branding. We look at social media as well as Google, SEO in blogs, and SEO in videos. Because Google and YouTube are search engines, you can find out what people are actively looking for and the type of questions that people are actively asking and wants to know answers for. They want to find experts to help them find a solution to the problem that they're currently having. So ultimately, one of the best possible ways that someone can build that know, like, and trust with an ideal client is to create content, whether it's a long-form blog or a video or both that specifically answers a question that somebody is looking for. So ideally, you want someone to do a Google search on a certain subject, and they find something that you created, and they're like, "Wow, I really liked this person." So many times people find me that exact way because they search a topic that I'm an expert in, and they find a piece of content that I created or video that I created and they're like, "Oh, wow, Claire really knows her stuff." So that's ultimately how you really build ROI, you get customers that are committed and trust you, and value your input. The goal is to hopefully work with them, but trust has to be one and it's not something that everyone gives for free.
For small and medium-sized businesses, is it important to have the individual or the owner of the organization versus building up the brand of the company itself?
People connect with people and people want a connection, especially when you have you know certain younger demographics. They want to know your values, what you stand for and that is done through people. If you think of some of the very well-known, multibillion-dollar corporations, those CEOs branded themselves. Think of Elan Musk! Tesla's cool, but Elon Musk is cooler, if you think about it, right? He has more followers on social media than Tesla does, because when Elon says things it has so much more weight. So if you just think about these real-world examples, you see exactly why it's more important that the person be branded and then they talk about their business because the people are going to have that know, like, and trust factor, not a business.
Why does ignoring personal branding negatively affect your ROI?
If you really think about everything that I've talked about like if someone does a Google search on you, specifically. They're like, okay, who's this person, should I work with them, and there's nothing there, they're definitely not going to want to work with you. You should have some information, especially if you are an expert, which most people that have their own businesses are an expert in something, right? So you kind of wonder why can't I find content about you? What's wrong with you? Then the next part of that is, what if I do find content about you, and it's bad? So this is how can negatively affect you, either not finding any information so people don't believe that you are actually the expert that you say you are or the second thing is that they do find information about you and it's not great information. Whether it's negative information, or you really did not do a good job of creating content that was very helpful, and it negatively impacted what people think about you. You want to put effort into really engaging and answering questions and things that people are actually searching for. It's not one of those things where you can just kind of like punt, and it'll work, you actually really have to put in the effort and answer people's questions. So that's the return is you can help people but it also helps build your business too. But it's a long-term game.
Can you share with our listeners one of the favorite networking experiences that you've had?
I admit that sometimes networking is scary, and I actually did a blog talk giving some tips on how to make it not so scary. But I think ultimately, one of the biggest things is, if there's a group that you are being very strategic with your networking, I would kind of go on to LinkedIn, find who you want to really connect with, and have a way to connect with them. Say something like, "Hey, I read your article on this and I really just wanted to come over and say hi," and have you have your brand statement really quick write your little kind of like blurb about me. I think that's one of the biggest things in making networking easier, especially if there are people that you want to connect with is do your homework first. That's actually one thing that a friend of mine taught me and it's such a valuable thing. If you know there are strategic relationships that you want, go and do a little bit of homework.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture the relationships that you have?
Connecting with people on social media, connecting with them on LinkedIn, which is obviously a very professional network. I think you can always nurture the relationship through whether it's inviting them on your podcast, inviting them onto a video podcast. Just staying connected by essentially asking for their input on something. Everyone again, loves a compliment and I think that is a really key thing. Don’t ask for favors, ask for advice on things. Connecting with people like that is really great. I think if you do have a platform, invite them to be on your platform. That is a really great way to stay connected with people and there could be an end game strategy with it, but it doesn't feel and come off as salesy. I definitely don't think it's a good thing to hard-sell people in the social sphere or when you are networking, it's so much better when you just really show up and are committed to sharing your expertise and giving value. The relationships that you create through that are so much stronger than immediately going straight for the sale. I think that would be one of the biggest things. Stay connected, ask for their advice and if you have a platform, bring them onto that platform, but don't sell.
What advice would you offer that business professional is really looking to grow their network?
There are so many networking groups. For me, I've asked friends, and I, you know, asked the group that I know for their advice. Find out from other people, other networking opportunities that they would suggest whether it's in your area in person or online. There are so many events that are online as well, that I have found and you can just ask your network. There are also so many Facebook groups and LinkedIn groups that you can join, you can find out about other networking opportunities in those groups as well. So there are just so many ways to do it, but I don't think it's a bad thing to ask. Just ask people because people want to give their advice. They want to be helped. just asked people to ask your network put out a post saying. So ask your network or you can also just put it out there on social media and a lot of times people will respond, and they'll have great information.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
You talk about this a lot, but networking is so important. So I would say probably more networking, pushing myself to be uncomfortable rather than always staying safe, and not maybe doing that networking event because it's scary. So I think pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and doing more networking.
We've all heard of the six degrees of separation. Who would be the one person that you'd love to connect with and do you think you could do it within the sixth degree?
I've kind of liked the way that Rachel Hollis has navigated a lot of stuff. She's definitely gotten herself in some sticky situations over the years, but she's somebody that I what she's done with her personal brand and it's very much evolved. Neil Patel is another marketer who has done great things so I definitely think I could connect with those people through six degrees because I'm in that kind of marketing and influencer space, but those are people that I think are learning kind of more about their story would be really cool.
Any final word of advice you'd like to offer our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
It kind of goes back to even your personal brand. There are so many people like you mentioned, that won't put themselves out there and won't commit to networking with people, they won't commit to doing their personal brand. When you actively do it, and you commit to it and you do it and you show up, you're really going to be in a smaller group of people. I think that's one of the most important things to think about. There are so many people that won't have the follow-through, that won't commit to going all the way with whatever it is whether it's building that personal brand, networking, and committing to so many networking events or opportunities. Just commit and do it! You don't have to bite off the biggest chunk, just find the events that you want and commit to going all-in because so many people don't. That's what's going to differentiate you from somebody else is that follow through and that commitment, and that's a lot of what you said earlier about networking and just being true and following through. It really will benefit you in so many ways.
Connect with Claire
Website: https://clairebahn.com/
Free Masterclass Course: https://clairebahn.com/personal-branding-masterclass
Meet Paul
Paul is popularizing the concept C-com, the science of conversion, conversation, and automation. He founded Amplify C-Com, which helps grow businesses past seven figures through 80% human-like and 20% human experience. Amplify combines human psychology and automation to create more profits in their customers’ pockets.
How do you apply the 80-20 rule to automation?
So we find a lot of the time that people try and automate either 100% or not a bit. So they will go, "Let's automate everything, you know, I want to make everything evergreen so I can sit on a beach and drink pina coladas and not have to do anything." But when you do that you lose that human touch, and especially post-pandemic, people are looking so much more for that personal customer experience that I've been able to speak to a human, but in a way doesn't take up a lot of their time and they can do it in their own time so there's that instant gratification. What we look at is, how would you normally speak if you're having a conversation? So if you would just send in an email to me one on one, Lori, what kinds of things would you say? If you were sending an SMS or a text to someone, how would you usually phrase that? So we write that in the same way as we normally would and then we automate that. So then we automate the start of the conversation and then hand it over to the 20% of human-like experience to guide the people through a more personalized service.
What are embedded commands and why are they so important in marketing?
Embedded commands are all about, starting to plant the seed, so to speak with whatever kind of conversation you've gotten into. Lori, if I was to speak to you, right now, you may be thinking, as I started to say this, you may be thinking of a pink elephant in the corner of the room. Now, as you probably try harder and harder not to think about that pink elephant in the corner of the room, then that image is probably getting more vivid and vivid in your mind. You probably see that pink elephant right now we've got roller skates on as well, can you see that? Well, don't think about that. Whatever you do, Lori, don't think about that. You can't think about it, right?! We start starting to use some of these embedded commands in the way that we write copy. So if you want to guide someone towards a certain direction, then you use some of those language patterns throughout the copy. So for example, if you want to bring up an objection that someone's having, and to be able to handle that objection, rather than like, brisk over it and try and hide it, say you might be thinking right now this or maybe you're thinking this and then you go "Great, now we can crush that objection." So you bring the objection up and then crush it. You may already start seeing yourself achieving that goal. I don't know what it is for you, it might be you want a new car, you might want to move houses, you might just want to spend more time with the family and see yourself go into Disneyland. But whatever that is for you, then you probably know what that is in your mind right now. So you can see if we break down that sentence, for example, you create the future pace in the mind and then adding things like "right now" at the end of it, you're starting to see that in your mind right now. So it's like these hypnotic language patterns that are being used that guide people towards the sale, but you can also do it in a conversational way. For example, another way is not so much of an embedded command, but another language pattern that we use a lot is ask for a no instead of a yes. So I learned this from Chris Voss. Chris Voss is an FBI hostage negotiator and he wrote a book called Never Split The Difference and one of the things he wrote in there was about asking for no. Most people, like if I said, "Hey Lori, would you like to have me on your podcast?" And then you kind of like, they'll say yes, or say no. But if I say, "Hey, Laurie, would you be totally against having me on your podcast?" Then what are you gonna say then? It takes the pressure off when you ask for a no instead of a Yes. Would it be crazy to entertain the idea? Would it be unreasonable to consider? No, it wouldn't be unreasonable to consider. So we use that, "Would you be against?" For example, let's say you want to book a sales call. So you might send an SMS message and say something like, "Would you be against speaking with one of our application specialists?" "No, I wouldn't be against that." "Can you check if this link works?" Then they click the button, and then they go to the next stage, "Yeah, that works." "Great, can you see that on the page?" Then you notice what you do if you're on a sales call, you'd run the same kind of thing from the conversational perspective and you'll notice we're always creating these micro-commitments through the whole process. It's a different psychology behind the language patterns that you use to reduce the ask that you're looking for.
Let's dive into that a little bit from the power of conversational commerce to sell really high ticket items.
When it comes to selling high ticket items, we look at each stage of the customer journey. So when you look at each stage, you go, "Well, where are people dropping off." So a lot of the time people go, I'm not making enough sales. That's a symptom, not a cause. So you have to work backward and break down each stage of the process. So we'll use technology and automation to look at each stage of the pipeline. So we know every time someone pops into a certain stage, for example, let's say they opted in, or they started a challenge, or they watched a webinar or they submit a deposit. So we can see how many people are getting to each stage of the journey, and then work out what we need to do to get more people to that stage. Where are most people dropping off and what level of conversation do we need to have at that point? Can we automate all that? Or do we need to actually add a human element to that as well? So at the start of the journey, quite often, you'll automate more of it. But as you get higher and higher up the price point you might get the owner or a higher level person in the team more involved when it comes to let's say, submitting a 10,000 or $25,000 program. Let's say you've got a lot of people stuck on the pay to deposit, but they haven't paid the full amount. So what's happening at that point? What's happening in the buyer’s mind? Maybe they're having buyer's remorse, maybe they need to get funding together. We don't know without asking. So then you could have, for example, we will have some owners, they'll go and record a personal video message to those people who get to that stage, but don't get to the next stage. So it might take them 30 seconds of video, let's say 10 videos a day which takes five minutes. If that closes one more sale, that five minutes has made them $10,000. So that then becomes a really good return on investment. Looking at each stage of the customer journey, and then understanding how you can add conversation at every point to guide people to the next step of the journey. It's like Martin Luther King said, "You don't need to see the whole staircase, you just need to take the first step," and we kind of rephrase that a little bit is "You don't need to see the whole staircase, you just need to take someone to the next step."
Can you share with our listeners one of your most favorite or successful networking experiences that you've had?
So I always say this kind of catalysts that happen over time, right? So one of the things that we used to do was just doing Facebook Messenger, when there wasn't loads of compliance around it. So at that point, I'd get people on a Facebook Live Show and I build them a bot for free on Facebook Live. So we do that kind of thing where we go cool, what kind of thing you're looking for, and we build it live. And they go oh wow, you're building a bot great, you can take that away and use it in your business. Now what that led to is because we give so much value, people started introducing this to other people. So we had for example, oh John Lee Dumas on the podcast, and then ended up we did some work for him beforehand before the podcast so we'll talk about the results. We improved his webinar rate quite significantly and because we improved that then he introduced me to Pete Vargas and Ray Higdon. Then we just started to level up. So I always say is if you want to go and get paid by level eight, then go and work for level nines for free or level 10s for free. It improves your authority, credibility, and at the same time, it opens up your network to get even wider. So I always looked as well for any deals that would make with some of these high leverage people is how can we leverage that and then introduce it to other people at the same time.
How do you stay in front of these people that you've created these relationships with?
So the last couple of years have obviously been a little bit different in terms of going to events. But what's interesting is, for example, I had someone message me today and she said, "Hey, we spoke last year." Bear in mind, I haven't physically spoken to her in over a year, and before when I did speak with her we spoke for about five minutes. She said, "I'm looking to do this, is this the kind of thing that you do?" So staying at the top of people's minds, how do we do that? Well, I post on social media, like six times a week. I can't remember the person who I got this from but we do a connect authority. So we will make a small offer like a lead magnet and we'll ask who wants it and everyone will want to get it. So then we get to have back and forth conversations with those and then the other ones, it might be like a personal story about me. It could be a case study so when people see case study after case after case study of "Hey, look at all these six-figure seven-figure results that we're getting for people," then you naturally stay on top of mind and it's not so much with social media. Sometimes everyone's like, "Oh my god, no one's engaging with my post." If you want to work with seven and eight-figure entrepreneurs, most of those won't engage with your posts, but they're always watching. Always keep an eye on things. If you are at that seven-figure level, or even at a six-figure level, how many times you actually go, "Oh, I like that. I like that." No, you just scan every so often and just go, "Oh, that's interesting, I'll make a note to myself about that," rather than engaging with everything.
What advice would you offer the business professionals really looking to grow their network?
So I'd say do what do I did, and find how you can give as much value as possible to the people that you really want to work with. Identify your dream clients, and give as much value to those people as possible, and then you will work either with them or someone very close to them based on that. So you'll find a lot of the high-level people, if you go up to them and say, "Hey, I'm really good at doing this thing, am I okay to do this for you for free?" I spoke to someone else who does the same similar thing with LinkedIn profiles. So he went to a lot of the bigger players in the industry and said, "Hey, would you mind if I create your LinkedIn profile based on what I know about you? I've been following you for a long time. If you think it's great, you can use it. If not, that's fine." They're like, "Yeah, sure do," and then afterward, they're like, "What can I do for you?" Then you've got testimonials from all these big players and suddenly, that becomes an authority overnight.
Do you have any final words of advice for our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
Remember, every single person that comes into your world ash a human beating heart. They're not an automation, they're not a lead, they're a person. When you start to remember that, and start having those back and forth conversations with your customers or potential customers, and you start to find out what the pains are, their desires are in a lot more detail. It makes your marketing better, it reduces your cost to acquire a customer and increases your reputation in the marketplace. So have more conversations with more people and you'll make more money, have more impact on the world and be better for it.
Connect with Paul
Amplify To 7 Figures Podcast: https://amplifyto7figures.com/home
Website: https://lp.amplifyccom.com/
Meet Ashley
Ashley is an ex-corporate marketing executive for a $4 billion company turned to online marketing consultant who has helped hundreds of six, seven, and eight-figure online entrepreneurs create customer-centric marketing and sales strategies. As a certified NLP practitioner, Ashley believes the power of marketing is to teach your ideal clients how to think, not tell them what to do using a combination of psychographics and human behavior in your brand messaging.
What is the number one mistake you see when it comes to messaging?
It's kind of hard to narrow it down to one. But what I really see a lot specifically with clients that I've worked with is a lot of the time people will create content that doesn't really reflect their ideal client. What I mean by that, and one of the biggest things that I've found, especially through my NLP training and working with all these clients, the one thing that I've found that was so transformational was that your messaging and marketing is a reflection of your mindset. So a lot of the times I see when it comes to messaging, people will try to create messaging that attracts a certain type of client, but their mindset does not match the client they're trying to attract and I'll give you a quick example. A lot of the times when I read content, I can see where that person's mindset is coming from and what they were thinking in the moment they created that content, or they created that message, and why they were bringing in a certain type of person that they were bringing in. One of the examples I really like to use is one of my clients. She is a physical therapist that specializes in concussion recovery and she is phenomenal and amazing at what she does and when the pandemic hit, she turned into an online business. She created this membership program for patients who have had concussions. She is very out of the box, very different from the industry norms, which are the people I love to work with. So she created this webinar to promote this new membership that she had and she had almost 3,600 people sign up for this webinar and she had a very great ROI conversion. But when she got the clients into the program, she started to realize that a lot of them were in a victim mentality mode and they felt very defeated. They felt like they were helpless and when we started digging into her messaging, one of the things that she was saying in the webinar was I'm going to help you navigate your concussion symptoms. When I asked her why did you specifically choose, "I'm going to help you navigate your concussion symptoms?" And she said, "Well because when I created this, I was, I felt very helpless because my brick and mortar with the pandemic had to shut down so I went from making all this money to having to shut down my practice." So she was in this mentality of like, I'm helpless, I have to do something, it was this I don't know how to navigate my life now. So she used that word and what she found was the people who came into that program came in looking for her to solve their problem, they didn't take responsibility for their own recovery, they didn't take responsibility for their own actions, they were basically creating a codependent relationship on her. And because she felt helpless, she was turning around and bending over to their every need, and jumping in and doing more and doing all these things, because again, she set that container. So when we went in, and we restructured her messaging, we legit only changed the title of the webinar and the title of the webinar, the second time she launched was Regain Control of Your Life After A Concussion, and it was night and day. The reason why was using even the word regain on a psychological level, it makes you think that something was taken from you and it's your responsibility to take it back. When you have that, it changed the mindset to where she's gonna guide me and they took responsibility. So the second round, she had about 200 new members come in and she was saying that the atmosphere, the environment, the energy, everything was night and day, because all of these people who came in the second round, came in with a determined mindset and they were ready to go. That was a really long explanation, but that is one of the biggest mistakes I see is that when people are creating that messaging, it is a reflection of their mindset and their mindset needs to be in the correct place to be able to attract the ideal client that they want.
What is something in your industry that you don't agree with?
There are a lot. I have kind of built my entire brand around being disruptive in the industry. One of the biggest things which is very controversial, but I do not agree that people have to know, like, and trust you before they buy from you. That's one, another is you don't need to create how-to content. I think a lot of times we get stuck in that how-to content and we are only going to attract someone with a DIY mindset when we do that. I also don't really agree that serving is selling and I'll explain that one too, but we'll go back to the first one. I don't feel like people have to know, like, and trust you, before they buy from you. There has to be some type of trust there, but they don't have to fully know you. I love to use the example of let's say, you really want a new washer and dryer, and you're aware that you need a new washer dryer, you're aware of the problem. If you go to, let's say, Home Depot, and the salesperson who is going to sell you the washer-dryer, if they come up to you, and ask you if you need any help, you're not going to say, "Well, let me get to know this person I need to know about his family, and I need to know about all the stuff he's done in his life." I don't even really need to like him, I just need my problem solved. I just need to trust, I think trust is probably the biggest one, I need to trust that he is going to be capable of helping me solve the problem that I need to be solved. So I think a lot of the times we get stuck in that know, like, and trust so we end up creating content, creating messaging online, trying to get people to know us and like us, and to seek approval versus actually showing up to serve. I know it's a little controversial, because even on the flip side, I have known someone and I've liked them a lot, and I trusted them, but then I worked with them and they still didn't solve the problem that I needed. solved. Right. I only worked with them because I really liked them, but they weren't the best equipped to help me solve the problem that I needed.
What do you think is one uncommon thing seven and eight-figure business owners have that others don't?
One of the most uncommon things that seven and eight-figure business owners have or what I've even seen is they don't emphasize personal care. So what I mean by that is a lot of the entrepreneurs who are under the six-figure mark really try to build their life around their business and not the other way around. I know this is preached all the time, but when I really started to work with the seven and eight-figure business owners, what I realized is a lot of them had really strong containers. I don't mean boundaries, I just mean containers, they set expectations, and they never stepped out of those expectations. They also created expectations for their teams and their work relationships and they also spent a ton of time putting their life first and building their business around their life. That's one of the biggest things that I've seen is that mindset of I have to hustle, that's not there in the seven or eight-figure entrepreneurs and I think it is uncommon, especially in the online industry to see that because we're told you just have to work harder and you're one funnel away and this is your next step. When do you know when enough is enough? When are you actually gonna get to that next thing? That was one of the biggest things that I really started to see is that they really set these strong containers and they spent a lot more time on them. One thing I will say too, that I've started to implement myself is they actually spent a lot of time and stillness. Not meditation, but when I say stillness, they legit sat in stillness, no phone, no paper, no nothing. They just sat with their thoughts for 45 minutes to an hour, every single day in stillness, and just let their mind just be still. That brings so much clarity and I was like, "Oh, my gosh, there is no way that I could do that, there's no way I could just sit still for 45 minutes and not do anything," And that is something that I actually started to challenge myself on and I do that every day now. I go and sit for 40 minutes with no phone, no paper, no nothing, no meditation. I just sit in a chair, look at the wall and just sit for 40 minutes. It's amazing what happens, your brain just starts to go wild at first, and then it just starts to get really still and really calm and the best ideas come to you so much clarity comes to you. That's something I see a ton of the seven eight-figure business owners do that not a lot of the six or multi six-level ones do.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
I'm going to tell a story about just being 100% yourself and not being there to prove anything. I was invited to speak at an event and there were very high-level entrepreneurs in this audience. I got on stage and I want to say this because yeah, it is about networking. But I think what hangs all of us up when it comes to networking are those thoughts about what people are going to think about you or about how you feel awkward in certain situations. So anyway, I got on stage and the first thing I said was "Guys, I'm just gonna be dead honest with you, I'm sweating like a pig. I don't even know if pigs sweat, but I'm sweating like a pig and I'm incredibly nervous to be on this stage. I just wanted to let you guys know, because it's very nervous to be up here and it's very vulnerable to be up here and to speak and have everyone staring at you." As soon as I did that the entire room relaxed and you could just kind of feel the tension, you could feel the relief across the room. I tell you that because I use that now in every single networking event that I've been to the first thing I say to someone is like, "Hey, I am incredibly intimidated to be here, because I know that there are so many successful people here, but it is really nice to meet you," and just immediately telling yourself and letting them know, it almost puts the pressure off of them too, because they're most likely feeling the same way. It just creates this bond and then what ends up happening now when I do this, they'll say, "Oh, my gosh, have you met Ashley may yet?" Because I immediately set that connection and also use a lot of humor. This is actually something I've learned with my child that to connect with your child is to never make them wrong. Like never make someone wrong for thinking something or doing something and always throw in a little bit of playfulness or silliness. Throwing that that playfulness and that silliness in there immediately draws this connection. One way I do that, in networking events that ties back to my brand is my whole brand is built around farts and I'm not even joking. My podcast is no farting around I talk about industry disruptors making a big stink in their industry. So a lot of times when I go to these networking events, I'll immediately say, "I'm Ashley Fernandez and one thing you should know about me is, I think farts are funny. Everyone thinks farts are funny and that's why I created my entire brand around farts." Even now, when I speak, I always tell a fart story. I'll tell a fart story at the very end, I'll say there was absolutely no reason why I told that story except to prove that it doesn't matter how much money you make, how old you are, we all think farts are funny. The tension is completely released and everyone feels so much more connected to me, because I've added in some type of humor, and I have just been 100% vulnerable and real. I think that's one of the most successful tips I have for networking. You immediately stand out in a room because you are building that playful connection.
What advice would you offer that business professional who is looking to grow their network?
I actually had a coach one time tell me that she went to a networking event and the speaker asked everyone to raise their hand in the room if they were here to sell something. She said everyone raised their hand in the room, right, and then she said to raise your hand if they were here to buy something and only two people raised their hand. Then she says, "I want you to take this moment to learn that when you approach a situation in a place of an agenda to sell, you're making it about you you're not making it about the person you're networking with, and do you want to be in a friendship where it's always take take take? No!" That's always stood out to me and so now even when I go to networking events, I never talk about my offer. Even if someone was like, "Oh my gosh, I'd love to work with you." I say, "You know what? Let's connect on Facebook, let's connect on LinkedIn, let me send you a link to my calendar, and let's just jump on a call because I truly want to make sure that you have a chance to meet everyone that you need to meet here." That is so different than everyone else when they network because they're thinking about how they can sell people. Don't ever approach a networking event that way. Have the mindset of who can I connect with and how can I bring value to them at this event without expecting anything in return? And that goes back to the whole I don't believe in serving and selling. I do go into it with a servant's heart and it eventually leads to sales sometimes or even just amazing relationships that lead to referrals, but I don't ever go into it without it.
Do you have any final words of advice to offer listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
I just would say just go out there when you're networking and truly make it about relationships, without an agenda, or relationships without anything in return. I think that is just the biggest part when it comes to networking and not really approaching it to make money or to grow your audience or your clients. It is truly about relationships at the end of the day. Again, your marketing your messaging, the way you do one thing, and the way you do all things. When you approach it with that mindset of I really truly am here to serve someone I think that just everything shifts, and it really shows because you can truly tell the people in the online space who are there to serve and who are the ones who are there with an agenda.
Connect with Ashley
Website: https://www.ashleymariecoaching.com/
Meet Tom
Tom Andrews operates Andrews Media Ventures an independent PR communications consultancy based in Hartford, Wisconsin. Tom's background includes 35 years of major market broadcast news and public relations experience. Tom and his team have aligned professionals to help corporate and nonprofit clients raise their business and organizational profiles through services such as creative writing, PR console, media relations, spokesperson training, video production, voice talent, and special events support.
Besides using conventional online, print, broadcast, advertising, what other ways might a business or nonprofit organization consider to help raise public awareness about their products or services?
Well, I'm not at all saying that conventional advertising and such are bad avenues to take. But in conjunction with that, I encourage my clients to think about earned media, grassroots type of methods of getting your message out. Earned media means coming up with angles that your company has that could be potentially newsworthy, and then pitching those to television, radio, print, whatever. Also, the advent of the digital world has given us social media. So there are opportunities now, as you never had before Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, all these different methods that people have to get their word out. Another thing that I encourage them to do is to consider what I call side door advertising. You have an opportunity to be a part of community events, sponsorships, opportunities to get where you're not necessarily the focus, but by the side door, people have to know who you are, they have to be ident you have to be identified. Same thing if your company is featured in a news story of some sort. Maybe the story is not how great Keystone click is, but maybe the story involves Keystone click and they tell people who you are. So there's a variety of different ways to get your message out. All in addition to if you have an advertising budget, all the better. But sometimes I've worked with companies and entities that really didn't have much of a budget to do that. Particularly nonprofits maybe don't have the money to do that. So I look for other avenues to get the word out, get creative.
As someone who came from the news business, how important is the use of video in telling my company story and doesn't have the impact it once did in the b2b world as well as reaching the general public?
I spent quite a bit of time with video, and I still do I still am involved in video production. So I'm getting my biases out there for you right away. I still think that video when it's done well, has a tremendous impact as much today if not more than ever, because companies used to produce a video, and it has basically one use, they produce it, it'd be a DVD, they'd get it out, send it to their prospective clients or people that they wanted to work with and that was the end of it. Well today, when we shoot videos, we shoot them for repurposing, we shoot them so you can take some sound clips, video clips, and you can put them on Twitter, you can put them on Facebook. So you've got golden opportunities to reuse, if you will, the same material and augmented and refresh it all the time. I think video has a tremendous impact because I think it's the best mode of conveying human emotions. We talk about doing things in person, or the big thing is why is it so effective? Because you get to see the facial expressions of the person you're speaking with. There are silent little signals that don't come over in an email, they don't come over in a post on Facebook, or some social media, but you sit down with somebody and you get to know them, and you get to understand where they're coming from and I think that's a very effective way to get your messages across.
When telling a company's or organization's story, can you address the importance of the people aspect in storytelling?
That's the in-person thing I've just mentioned. When you’re storytelling, for example, I'll pick on the news business for a moment, okay? The stories that I always found got the best response and the longest shelf life, I still hear about them. I've been on television for many, many years, but people remember the people whose lives were affected, or changed for the better, or impacted by whatever the story happened to be. So we build our stories, you build stories around people because that's the factor that everybody that either tugs at the heartstrings, or it or you find yourself saying, "I had that happened to me, I understand what he or she is feeling."
Can you share with our listeners your most successful or favorite networking experience that you've had?
I will say right up front that I'm a very lucky person because of the career I had before thrust me into all kinds of situations where I had to meet new people. I had to learn about their business, I had to learn something about their family or something like that. What are you doing in networking? You're introducing yourself, you're trying to find out about somebody else's business, you're trying to figure out if you can interface with this person? So when I started out I was on the radio, I covered the Bucks, the Brewers, Marquette Warriors, the Green Bay Packers, the Wisconsin Badgers, all those things. And I was networking, all the while gathering my contacts, but the best location was always the press box because I got to reunite. To this day, I still do some scattered features for the brewery for game day magazine and I get to go and reconnect with people that I used to work with or who were coming into the business. But the thing about it is that kind of an atmosphere has given me all kinds of opportunities. For instance, from doing things with the Green Bay Packers I got to edit rather and do some writing and do the marketing for the first biography ever done on Curly Lambeau. It was called Lambeau, The Man Behind The Mystique. Later on, I was approached because of my junky hood from going back to baseball cards when I was five years old, and getting introduced to the Milwaukee Braves. Today I'm also one of the directors of the Milwaukee Braves Historical Association and because of that, I got sought out by a guy who has written a chain of sportsbooks. The book was for Milwaukee Braves fans only and because of that, I had to split it up in terms of writing. We had contacts with people who are still Milwaukee Braves fans today, catch up with them, and get them to tell us their stories. Their personal stories of I remember the first time I met Warren Spahn, or I got picked up by Warren Spahn when I was hitchhiking, or I remember bugging players in the parking lot outside county stadium. Those are just precious memories. So I got to kind of relive my childhood with that.
How do you best stay in from of and nurture your network?
Well, I've always considered my network like a garden, if you will. You are planting constantly you're planting and hoping that they're going to bear fruit. But what do you got to do? When you start planting things, do you just wait? No! You have to water it, you have to weed it, you got to do all these things. Also, here's a key one. Keeping in contact with people not only when you're trying to figure out if you can do something together, but it’s also learning about your contacts, learning about their family. Mark that stuff down and the old days, we have what was called a Rolodex. You would write down this on this rotating little miniature file system that you kept at your desk. Nowadays its this is called, your database so you have update and nourish your database every chance you get. If you read about something where maybe somebody even if you're not working with them anymore, but you knew them before, and they just did something of significance, call them up, congratulate them, or send them an email. You would be amazed at the number of things that come swimming back to you in a very positive light. If you stand at the edge of the garden with your arms crossed and waiting, it does not happen. You have to push it.
Let's go back to your 20-year-old self. What would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
Wow, that is a loaded question because hindsight is always 20-20, and boy, if I knew then what I knew now, I'm certain that my attitudes on all the number of things would be completely different than they were. I never considered myself to be a know it all, but I would always listen to myself when I was certain that I was correct. I always dug my heels in and that was not very flexible on certain things. Looking back I would be more flexible, I would be more open to seeing other ways of doing things even if I was certain. Listen, I've done this before, I'm lock stock and barrel certain that this is going to work. I've done it before, but maybe not as well as the idea that somebody else just came up here. So I think that's probably what I would tell myself, be a little bit more open, be more flexible, and always be a better listener.
Do you have any final words of advice to offer our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
Always be thinking about growing and supporting your network. Don't be afraid to reach out and tell your story to others and also be encouraging to get other people to tell you their story. What's the story about them as much as they want to share about them personally, or about their company, or how they got to where they are. People like to share that kind of information, but many times they're not drawn out? to do it. So I would encourage you to do that. Take notes, mental notes, and when you get back to your car, write them down, write something down, make up a little review. If somebody really interested you write down as much as you can remember right there when it’s fresh. Builds your network, grow your garden!
Connect with Tom
Email: andrewst53@gmail.com
Phone: 414-732-7371
Meet Lindsey
She is a principal and owner of McMillion Consulting. Lindsey believes in the power of influence and is a connector to the core as a national and international speaker, writer, and prospecting trainer. Her expertise is founded on equipping successful professionals and teams to profitably connect with purpose on LinkedIn. She has worked with 1000s of people to help them drive millions in revenue. Lindsey believes teaching should be practical as learning is actionable love that she loves helping her clients win.
Building relationships is all about establishing trust. How do we go about building trust on LinkedIn?
I always talk about how LinkedIn is this powerful online tool, but at the end of the day, business and networking and connecting have always been social, even before the internet existed. Shaking hands, kissing babies, following up to people knocking on doors. So I like to just remind people that and part of this is just to let down the anxiety and fear that comes with using a powerful tool like LinkedIn. So many things that I say and speak about this tool are similar to what you would do offline in many ways. So how do you build trust on LinkedIn? You do it just like you would offline so you have to think about your reputation. When you think about your reputation offline, and the credibility that you have, you want to make sure that that's mirrored online, specifically through your LinkedIn profile. LinkedIn loves keywords, just like Google does so the more you can strategically and completely build out that LinkedIn profile with keywords, you're increasing your likelihood of coming up in a search result on the platform. If you were to Google somebody's name, LinkedIn and Google love each other so there's a high likelihood that it's not the first result, the second or third result on that first page is going to be that person's LinkedIn profile. Also, people do not have to have a LinkedIn account to see your profile because it's public. So I always like to emphasize that remembering the foundation of any success on LinkedIn is going back to your LinkedIn profile. The other thing I like to incorporate, here is authenticity. My motto for McMillion Consulting is connecting with purpose and when you're connecting with purpose, as it relates to LinkedIn, what does that mean? Well, it means personalizing your outreach, following up to start a conversation, getting offline. Sometimes parts of the conversation can be in LinkedIn, but you still want to meet them in person because at the end of the day, we're all in the human to human business so we want to think about just being authentic, connecting with purpose, personalizing our outreach, following up, asking people if they want to have a conversation offline to continue the discussion that was started. So I think of reputation, I think of authenticity, I think of generosity. We have to be servants of our knowledge, and our networks, and what I mean by that is you are Lori, an expert in marketing and many things in advertising. You and I were recently speaking about marketing automation and so many things that I have no idea about, but some that I do. So it's this idea that you are very intentional, as I was sharing our knowledge with our networks on LinkedIn. What I always say, when I think about generosity on LinkedIn is it's not just about being a good steward, and a good servant of your knowledge, but it's also about recognizing when others do the same. It's also about being generous with your network and introducing people. I loved your opening comment, "Hey, if you know anyone else who should be a part of this podcast in the conversation and let me know," and we have to tell people that so that they do think of us when they think of someone in their network who's a great speaker, who should be interviewed by you on their podcast. Then lastly, I would say is this consistency. So one client goes into LinkedIn, he's very consistent, every Sunday and Thursday. Now, I'm going to put a little disclaimer asterisk by this and that it's not that Sunday and Thursday are the right time for you or me, but this just so happened to be his cadence. So Sundays and Thursdays, he would go into LinkedIn and on average, this specific activity that he was doing in LinkedIn, would yield him six appointments per week, of which he would close three on average. So he's a really good sales guy as a 50% success rate is pretty darn good, I would say. But the cool thing about those six appointments is that that was on top of what he was already doing in his business to grow his business. So he was using LinkedIn as an additive as a supplement to enhance his already successful growing business. What he said to me when he shared that was, "Lindsey, it's because I'm consistent and disciplined," so another way to think about consistency is showing up so you're top of mind.
Let's talk about ROI specific to the advertising that's available on LinkedIn. How can you go about getting that?
This is a really fun question because I flip it on its head. I'm asked this pretty often throughout the year where people will say, "Lindsay, I'm interested in spending some of my ad dollars on LinkedIn." What I would say is that perhaps if you're a really large corporation or enterprise, you can get away with dropping some pretty big bucks on LinkedIn advertising. But generally, there is truly a laundry list of items to get done for that spending to have some ROI. Meaning, what you might think of as a quick fix, with LinkedIn advertising, doesn't work that way. So a few examples of those laundry list items can include brushing up and cleaning up those LinkedIn profiles of yourself and your team members, making sure you have a company page, making sure that the individuals in your organization have networks that include people that you want to do business with, making sure you're posting content consistently across your individual profiles and your company page. I think that was like four or five things just right off the bat, right? So how do you get an ROI from your LinkedIn advertising, it's making sure that you're set up well for success because LinkedIn is looking at all of those little pieces, and not just saying, "Hey, the biggest better wins the honeypot."
Which LinkedIn feature is currently your favorite?
I'm not sure what year they released this, I want to say it was last summer. The feature that I absolutely love is setting an away message on LinkedIn. Many people have no idea that that's even a feature and it's a feature that you only get access to with LinkedIn premium. Now, when people hear LinkedIn premium, that's kind of the umbrella. But underneath that umbrella, you have multiple options. As of the release of this podcast, there are four LinkedIn, individual subscriptions that you can invest in for yourself. Even on the lowest-paid subscription, which is career and it's roughly $30 a month, you get access to set an away message. So few reasons I love this is one, I don't want to look like a jerk if you send me a message, and I don't respond to you within the blank amount of time that I'm out of the office. So you get a little ping back immediately, just like out of office on email works, that says I'm unavailable. Now the other reason I love it, which I do with my email as well is leveraging this as an opportunity for a little commercial or promotion. So I include a postscript on my LinkedIn away messages when I use them which includes one of my free guides. I mentioned a few moments ago that this is a feature you only get if you are paying for LinkedIn and so one of the things I want to share with your listeners is going back to what I mentioned at the beginning of our chat, which was the reputation. So I've got a free guide that anyone who's listening can get access to if they go to https://www.linkedintoit.com/freeprofileguide and it's about a seven or eight-page guide of how to prepare, build and launch your LinkedIn profile. Here's the thing, similar to advertising in many ways you could spend all the money in the world on LinkedIn, but it goes back to that key foundation where if you don't look reasonably intelligent, and you haven't intentionally built your LinkedIn profile the right way, nobody's going to respond to you, nobody's going to engage with you. So that free profile guide is a great place to get started.
Can you share one of your favorite networking stories or experiences that you've had?
It's actually when I was in college, and it's made such a really powerful impression on me that I believe it changed the trajectory of my career and how I was networking and meeting people in my business community and as a professional. So when I was in college, I don't think I even knew what a networking event was. But it just so happened that I was in the business school and they were hosting a networking event to teach us what it was and how to do it. So I show up to this event and you can imagine it was incredibly awkward and nothing was happening in this room of 20 or 30 students. Nothing was happening, we knew that it had a start time so we're looking at our watches and I'm like, "Why isn't this thing starting?" Well, I Look over and a gentleman is standing in the corner of the room. I'm sure many of the other students saw him and thought he was a professor observing the students and I just walked over to him, right, because I actually intended on asking him what was going on. So I walked over to him standing in the corner, I stuck out my hand to introduce myself, he put his hand out and handed me a $20 bill. He introduced himself as the event speaker and so the lesson of that impressionable story is the most important person in the room might be the person standing awkwardly and uncomfortably in a networking event. So as we brush off our in-person networking skills, be the person who speaks up first. If you're all there for a common goal to meet other people, to me, that just really lets down the guard and discomfort that sometimes comes with showing up at a networking event. But yeah, I got 20 bucks out of it and it turns out he was the most important person in the room!
How do you stay in front of and best nurture your network or your community?
I think it's important to meet them where they're at and stay in front of them in multiple ways. So yes, I'm a LinkedIn expert, but when I say this, I really mean it, I've got a 17 or 18 point checklist that I share with clients that I train on how to use LinkedIn more productively and profitably and you can imagine that those 17 to 18 points aren't all on LinkedIn. So that's kind of the irony is that we have to remember to use multiple communication channels when we are networking and staying in front of our networks and growing our networks. So picking up the phone, following up via email, attending a local event, seeing if they're on other platforms like Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and meeting them where they're at because that's generally going to be the place that they are most comfortable. I think, to me, that's the most important thing is not getting that tunnel vision of getting so stuck on a specific platform. It's using those other channels to connect with people.
What advice would you offer to business professionals looking to grow their network?
I came up with this little term. I've been talking about it for years, and finally coined it as "The Who Pie." I'm going to speak about LinkedIn specifically because it's a platform we both love and it's the sandbox I always say I play and stay and I don't touch any other social platform out there. When you think about your existing LinkedIn network, so that's your first-degree connections, I want you to think about your who pie. About 85% of your first-degree connections should be people who you authentically know, professionally. These people could be current colleagues of yours at the current company you work at, they could be people you previously worked together with, they could be people you've done business with, people you met at an event, people you went to college with, they're your clients, your vendors, your connections, and essentially, this portion of your network should be people who you can introduce to each other. Then I think there's this other 10% of your network that can be who you don't know yet. This is where that growth actually comes into play. So you're connected to about 10% or so of people who you don't know yet, but you're using LinkedIn as an entry point to get offline to schedule the phone call, or the zoom or the in-person meeting. So it is okay to be first-degree connections with people on LinkedIn who you don't know yet. But you're connecting with them intending to get to know them so that they essentially transfer over to that 85% of your who pie. So now, there's this other 5%. To me, those can be your friends and family. Here's the disclaimer: This 5% that can be friends and family need to represent themselves professionally. So both of my sisters are attorneys in the DC-Maryland area and while I don't do business with them directly, they're my sisters so I'm okay to be connected with them on LinkedIn, because they may know people who I need to meet. But of course, we have to be mindful of those family members who are not using LinkedIn professionally because if you engage with their activity, that activity is publicly visible. Similar to before I'll say it again, it's okay to be connected with your professional friends and family members, but to me, that 10% of the who pie is really where the opportunity is to grow.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
This is so easy for me, not to take myself so damn seriously. I still struggle with this and I think I'm also just learning to embrace that I do tend to be a little more serious. Funny enough, I kind of blame it on my sisters. They're much closer than age so in some ways you could look at our family tree and think, "Oh, Lindsey is an only child," but here's the deal. I didn't have anyone to banter with, my two sisters are incredibly sarcastic and I was like this serious child that is black and white and life is not black and white. We have to take a deep breath and shrug our shoulders and just relax sometimes. So I would definitely say not taking myself so seriously.
I understand that you have a giveaway for our listeners?
Yes! So my team and I have put together this incredible guide called the Ultimate LinkedIn Profile Examples Guide. In the years and years and years that I have interviewed clients, written their profiles, launched their profiles, time and time again, we're visual creatures as human beings, and they want to see the before and after the makeover. So finally, I got a brilliant idea of putting an Ultimate LinkedIn Profile Examples Guide together to help folks who get access to this boost and level up their LinkedIn profile the right way. This guide has more than 20 pages in it with inspiration because the idea is to inspire people who get it in their inbox, who get access to it, inspire them with other top-notch profiles that I've cherry-picked, and hand-selected. At the end of the day, you have a unique story, your career, where you're going, who you're doing business with, where you came from is all unique to you, but I think it's valuable to see other people who are doing it well. So I've handpicked tons and tons of examples and the idea with this is really so that you can get more time back on your watch when you're transforming your profile. I recently updated this guide and it now includes five bonus features to make sure you're using to implement in your profile to stand out even more. The offer is a 50% discount code on the guide. So when you go to https://www.linkedintoit.com/ultimate and apply the code "podcast50" you will receive 50% off your guide!
Connect with Lindsey
Claim your free profile guide: https://www.linkedintoit.com/freeprofileguide
Claim your copy of The Ultimate LinkedIn Examples Guide by heading to https://www.linkedintoit.com/ultimate and typing in promo code “podcast50”
LinkedIn: Lindsey McMillion Stemann | LinkedIn
Website: McMillion Consulting
Meet Elizabeth
Elizabeth started her career in technology after securing an MBA from Loyola University in Maryland back in the early 90s. She climbed the career ladder and an early-stage startup in the commercial construction technology industry to Director of Business Development and demonstrated success driving multimillion-dollar sales growth while providing award-winning sales leadership. After a personal challenge managing her home, Elizabeth decided to build the very solution she needed to save money, save time and reduce her stress. Now she is the Co-Founder of HomeZada, an online and mobile home management portal that helps homeowners manage their homes to save time and money and reduce stress. Specifically, HomeZada educates homeowners in the areas of home management, inventory, maintenance, remodeling projects, and finances. She recently won the 2019 Female Founders and FinTech Pitch Competition and appeared on the NASDAQ channel.
What made you take the leap to start your own software company?
Originally, I wasn't going to start a software company, because my husband had already started one and I worked for that company. Lo and behold, I ran into my own problems, as the bio indicated, I started running into problems at my home, and it was broken hot water heaters that broke earlier than they needed to only because I didn't understand that simply flushing them, which is basically how maintenance makes them operate properly. Not understanding how to manage all my maintenance, all these different areas, where was the money going in my house, I was really, really frustrated that I couldn't figure out all the little details of managing my home, and how to actually get this data to make it easier for me to manage my home. Then I started realizing if I'm having this experience is everyone else? And so I looked for 10 years for someone else to create a solution like HomeZada, and nobody did. We had sold our last company and my husband who I actually work with right now, said we've got another startup in us. Let's do it again, let's build the company that you want and the product that you want because we could help all these homeowners everywhere. At first, I thought it was crazy! But then I said, "No, you know what? I still have these problems, the solution to my problems are not solved, I need to solve them and they also need to help other people solve their problems as well," because if I'm going through this, other people must as well. Sure enough, we have customers all over the country, and in many countries outside the United States who experience the same things. They're running into problems managing all the details about their home in one place and this is what HomeZada allows them to do.
What types of marketing are you doing to build your customer base?
We target directly to the consumer so we target the homeowner. We use a lot of different marketing activities to reach them. The first set of activities that we target for our homeowner customers is a lot of digital marketing. We are a digital platform so making sure that we can give them access to our platform as easily. Anything that's social, pay per click, email marketing, and we also do a lot of other marketing as it relates to PR. PR is also a really good way for us to get our message out there because we do a lot of things because we are total home management in one system and not everybody needs complete home management all at once. They may need one portion of managing their home, for instance, I live maybe in Florida, meaning this homeowner, and it's getting ready to be hurricane season so I need to track a home inventory. So that's maybe where they start. Or maybe you're a first-time homeowner and what you need is to track your home maintenance, because you're not familiar with how to maintain your home. Or maybe like in the pandemic, everybody was doing projects and so how do I actually manage those projects as easily and efficiently as I can? So having PR communicate specifically how a particular area of HomeZada can help a specific homeowner during that area of their homeowner journey makes it really easy for us to really reach our customers and for them to understand more about how HomeZada can be valuable to them. One of the other things we do too is, when it comes to social, we do use a lot of videos to help people understand why it's valuable to manage your home digitally so that it's efficient for you, it does save you time and money and how you can actually do that using HomeZada as well. So videos are really popular with a lot of our users and they can reach our YouTube channel. The other thing that we do is also target our business to business customers. They range from real estate companies, mortgage companies, insurance companies, home builders, home maintenance contractors, and many more others that find HomeZada extremely valuable for them. So one of the things that we do there is it's a straightforward business development and partner management to reach those businesses and to help them understand how HomeZada can benefit their business as well as their customers. So it becomes a win-win for everyone. But there is a common thread that we see both with the homeowners and the businesses is that everybody needs to understand a little bit more about HomeZada. So engagement and interaction through education is the common thread that we see in both the audiences that we target and it makes it more effective for us to get our message out there in order for people to understand that we exist so they can get better at managing their homes.
Can you share with me one of your most successful or favorite networking stories that you've had?
Oh, I have a great one for here. So I'm an extrovert, I love to network and I go to events all the time. So for me, it's really easy to network and I love meeting people and I love learning what they do and who I can connect them with. But there was one time when I went to a networking event and not everyone is an extrovert like me, many people are introverts. There was this young lady who was kind of off to the corner and I'm like, "No, this is not going to happen so beware here I come." We became fast friends after that, by the way, but during this time, she was really nervous. So we just got to talk in and having an understanding of each other's business and then I invited her to another event that I was actually speaking at locally here in the Sacramento area. She was really nervous and she explained to me, she was an introvert and I said, I could tell just because you're standing over by the wall, and not engaging, and I said, but we can actually help with that! At the next event, I said, just meet two people. Two people! You don't have to meet everybody in the room, just meet two people. Walk out with two people and that's it, make it really simple! She was so excited that she was given a goal that forces her out of our comfort zone, that not only did she meet two people, but she met seven people by the end of the night, and she was so proud of her achievement. She didn't realize how easy it was until it started going. But she was so stressed out about just I don't even want to talk to anyone and that simple little goal, a low-risk goal helped her continue to build out her networking capabilities. So then she met a lot of other people I know in the industry, and the tech industry here, and she ended up meeting many, many more, and then doing business with a lot of these individuals. So one little thing, one little goal, meeting two people was super simple, and then here it is, she's now got a thriving business because of just one tiny little goal.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture your relationships within your network?
That's a hard thing for a lot of people, especially if your networks are large. One of the ways I do that is through LinkedIn. I'm a big fan of LinkedIn, I can periodically see what's going on in people's lives, but I can also correspond and send private messages just to reconnect with a lot of people. Another thing that I do and perform now granted it, the pandemic has put a slight change on things, but it's also making sure that you are going to the events in your area. We had a lot of virtual events during the pandemic, making sure you're still doing that and continuing to build those relationships. One of the other things that I also participate in is what we refer to as Masterminds. A Mastermind generally brings a group of people together, not giant, just a small group, where individuals can freely speak about their business, and how each other can help each other, and not only help each other in the business and answer questions and suggestions for a particular task or a strategy but also because when you have a group of individuals, where you have the freedom to speak, they have networks that they have as well, that they can also bring to the table which also helps all of us nurture our networks because now we've got more people to introduce to each other, to help each other grow each other's businesses.
What advice would you offer that business professional really looking to grow their network?
The biggest thing I would say is one, get out there. Two, don't be shy with LinkedIn, I just love LinkedIn. So don't be shy with that, hear what people have to say. Even if they ping you through in mail or some other connection, hear what they have to say before you actually write them off, because you never know where you can support each other. Then I do encourage people, especially for those introverts out there just to meet two people at an event. Do not give yourself some astronomical goal that you feel intimidated by and you may not want to go out there at all. So if you feel so intimidated, you're probably not going to go out and network at all, just tell yourself that you only need to meet two people at an event. That's it, and make it a quality two people meaning that you spend quality time with them to get to know them a little bit more. Then once you start meeting those people, they'll start introducing the other people, and then you've got a built-in buddy system at an event because people just start introducing you.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I don't have a whole lot of regrets looking back, but I will say take the job. So there was an opportunity that was provided to me and I thought at the time, I wasn't qualified enough for the job. I thought that the job needed someone else's skill set in it and I declined the position, which was surprising for someone like me because I'm pretty confident. But I just felt this was for the best of the company at the time and then as it turns out, I ended up having to do the job anyway, over years of doing it. So take the job, if it's offered to you take the job, you will figure it out and people within your company will help you figure it out.
Do you have any final word or advice for our listeners about networking?
I would say get out there. However, you do it virtually, online, in person. Also, keep it simple, don't stress yourself out, especially after the pandemic, a lot of people have been inside for a long time, and they haven't been in offices, and they may be nervous. So it's just a little bit at a time and you don't have to jump in the deep end right away. Just step your toe in the steps and go on the shallow end with just a couple of people every time you go out. Just meet two people.
Connect with Elizabeth
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edodson/
Website: https://www.homezada.com/
Meet Paul
Paul wears many hats, ghostwriting, agency founder, bestselling author, podcast host master networker, husband, father, older brother to younger men, amateur theologian, voice mimic, and recovering insurance salesman. As a first-generation Spanish-speaking immigrant to the US with African heritage and the Middle East come back experience, Pual's lived in five different countries, speaks two languages, and holds three passports. Paul does two things well, words and people. When he isn't writing content for clients, you're most likely to find him building relationships and creating opportunities for his network.
Effective communication is something that you preach quite a bit. What role does effective communication play when it comes to growing your business?
I've said for quite a while now, but one of the things that came to the forefront with me was that I make way more money with my ears than I do with my mouth. What I mean by that is that there's a tendency in everyday conversations when you're building relationships with people. To stay on the surface of things, to sort of being polite and chitchat and as I was learning the ropes of networking, it was fine. But eventually, I got to a point where it became very repetitive, and especially if you're in a medium to small size town where you know a lot of the people in any sort of business networking event, that's going to start to get stale. It did for me because I was passionate about it. I loved connecting with people, and I loved going to events and functions, and it was my primary method of generating business. But I couldn't keep talking like that and so I said, I've really got to get a lot more curious about people. For a long time, I couldn't think of what to say, and when somebody finally pointed it out to me, I suddenly realized, Oh, I'm being reminded of something I should already know, having studied communication in university, and having been exposed to newsrooms, and working in radio stations in Seattle. I should have known that the approach of the journalist or the curious TV interviewer, someone like Oprah Winfrey, for example. You just need to distill that down to an everyday conversational level, where you're asking people questions that quickly get beneath the surface, not in an inappropriate way, but in a way that sort of pulls out of them what they wouldn't regularly reveal. Not because they're ashamed, or extremely private, but simply because nobody thinks to ask them. I found that as soon as I started asking these kinds of questions that got below the surface, and then I started being a curious journalist and saying, "Well, tell me who, tell me what, where, when, why, how," all these open-ended sorts of things, people just will tell you all kinds of weird and wonderful things about themselves. Over time, as I built up this huge, giant mental Rolodex in the back of my head, I quickly discovered that whenever people told me what their problems were, or what their pain points were, I had right in the back of my head an instant list of people that I could connect them to who could help them. So I just became this hub, this sort of go-between, this broker almost, if you will, of one person to the next, solving problems and making myself valuable.
What are the five tips for networking with your dream connections?
This is one of my favorites. In my book, which by the way is going to be available to your audience for a free digital copy. I've realized after publishing that I have had these ordered incorrectly but they're all still the same. The first thing I tell people is you got to be an angler. So when a fly fisherman is trying to get a trout or a salmon to jump out of the water, he's going to cast that rod at an angle that mimics the flight patterns of a fly above the surface of the water. So the analogy that I take from that is that when you're in a networking function, you're gonna show up physically sort of the way everyone else does. You show up, you're going to smile, a handshake, whatever criteria you need to. But then, when you open your mouth, you hook people. When you begin to communicate, you hook them one way, shape, or another. The bio that you were referencing earlier on, that's a hook. Being a very attentive listener, that's a hook and it's a hook because so few people do it. So I tell people when I go out to a function, or an event or something like that, I never go to transact business, but I do go for business reasons. The business reasons are always to meet people and ideally, to hook the right people, not into signing a contract on the spot, but into developing a further relationship with me. Number two, I call it to be a scout, be a therapist and be a publicist. So scouts, as you may have heard in sports, are always out there looking for the right people to have in their circle. So you're always paying more attention to people than the average person does. You're always more curious about them, you're always trying to find out what you can about them. Not for the purpose of keeping tabs on people or, but it is like, if you have this problem, then I know someone who can help you with it. So you're scouting out, who's the right people to have in your circle. Going the other direction, as a publicist, sort of like what you're doing now, as a podcast host, you're helping me make contact with however many listeners download this episode, you're helping introduce me to your audience and so you're identifying me as somebody that you think it would be good for them to know of, or know about, or potentially even get acquainted with. A podcast is one way to do that, you can do it on your personal Facebook page! For what it's worth, I used to go to real estate open houses and I would ask the realtor there, would you mind if I did a video tour, and posted this house on Facebook, so more people know about it. What real estate agent was gonna say no to that? So that's another way you can do it and then the other thing, of course, is to be a therapist. By this, I don't mean you literally have somebody lie down on a couch and try to console them through their problems. But what I do mean is you have to go back and find out what is causing people to struggle because that's where you make your money. Entrepreneurs get paid first and foremost, to solve problems so if we're out there offering solutions that don't solve the problems people are actually having, then we're not being entrepreneurs. The mistake we make is we think the only solution that's worth offering is the one I get paid for, when in fact, the solution that's worth offering is the one that solves the person's problem, whether you get paid or not. Then the other thing is focused on the farm team. Lori, you're a hockey player. So you know what a farm team is and that's the whole thing is when I talk about networking with dream connections, if you learn to treat everyone around you as a potential dream connection, whether they actually are one or not, sooner or later, you're going to be in front of that dream connection. I use the examples of socially prominent people like politicians or celebrities or actors or athletes, but it does don't necessarily have to be that. It could just be your absolute dream client, that one magic client that goes 1000 miles deep and keeps you busy and you know floods your business with new revenue. But if you know what to say to them when you get in front of them because you've been practicing it on hundreds of other people who didn't fit that profile, you're not going to stumble through your words, you're not going to be at a loss for what to say or how to say it, you're going to launch into it the same way you would with everybody else you've ever done it with. So while you're working your way up towards being in front of that dream connection, focus on the farm team and practice on the everyday people that you run into all the time.
All businesses want influence in the marketplace, how do you suggest that they achieve that?
The phrase that I've coined for this is what I call, you need to set about building your own unpaid sales force. Funnily enough, I didn't think about this until recently, the occupation of ghostwriting actually has a parallel to this, but which is what my agency does. If you think about it, we are always either taking information in via our ears and eyes or were spreading it out via our fingertips on the keyboard. So when you're trying to build influence in the marketplace, what you're really trying to do is reproduce a message that resonates with people. The way that I found to do this is that as I kept networking and as I kept showing up, and as I kept adding value in the groups that I was a part of, pretty soon, some people began to become like walking, talking billboards for me. Also, it was totally voluntary, it wasn't like I had some master switch or something like that and people talked about me. But these people also had friends and neighbors and co-workers and associates that they spent time with, who would say, "I need to find a new insurance agent, who do you recommend?" I had become so adept at showing up consistently both digitally and in-person with a giving hand that I was constantly getting recommendations. My phone was constantly ringing in my office with somebody saying I was referred to you by so and so. When I got into ghostwriting, I suddenly realized, in this case, I was the author and all of these people who were recommending me were my ghostwriters. They were carrying my message, they were just doing it verbally instead of in print. They were carrying my message one way or the other. What they liked about me really resonated and struck a chord with them and they would go and tell other people, "Hey, this guy, you can trust him. He's responsible, he's reliable, he's prompt, he does that he gets the job done," whatever qualities they admired about me. I had my own series of marketing ghostwriters who basically carried my message to the marketplace and spread the word and so I became very well known in the community and a similar sort of thing is happening now in the servant leader influencer, coach, consultant space, a lot of My name is starting to travel around before I get there. So yeah, what role does effective communication play? Well, I can't build a business without it and I don't know of anyone who can.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
In the last three or four years, mastermind leaders and people who participate in masterminds who have that culture of collaboration and everybody growing together comprise at least 50% of my clientele because it's not just networking, there's a purpose attached to it that goes beyond your obvious commercial self-interest. From these groups, I've built several relationships that are basically the springboard to capture nearly every client I've had. Most, especially among them is Aaron Walker. Now, his mastermind is called Iron Sharpens Iron, I'm a member of it. The way that I got into that was Aaron got introduced to me by a friend. It went back to my cornerstone principles, the pro bono publicity is what I call it for podcasting or that kind of thing, and be a publicist. So Aaron's a serial podcast guest, so I invited him on my show when he came on and I could immediately tell, I like this guy, and would love to spend more time learning from him. He happened to mention that he was going to launch a new product and he was looking to promote it then. I said, "Well, you're already invited back if you'd like to come on the show again, at that time, and it would help you," and he said, "Absolutely." We got done with the interview and from then on, I did what I've always known how to do, even if you're broke. Even if you're broke, you can still introduce people who should know each other. That's what I tell people, even if you don't have a penny to spend on marketing, it doesn't matter because of who you know. So I knew a lot of people, some of them socially prominent, and some of them who fly below the radar, but still people that Aaron would want to know. I started introducing him to everyone and the difference when I started doing this is that Aaron thrives on that kind of stuff. Most people appreciate it, but for Aaron, it's like the lifeblood of his business too. All of a sudden, he was meeting all these people, some of them in his own hometown that he didn't know, and getting connected. So when he came back in October of 2019, I was still struggling. I was about 15 months into being broke with no income and he came back and we did the interview and when we were on the post-interview chat, he said, "Look, you've introduced me to all these incredible people, you don't know how much I value that and you need to let me do something for you." Well, I had been waiting for somebody to say that for I don't know how long, but of course I'd been broke for 15 months and I was like, "Aaron, I don't even know what to ask for." He said, "Well, what's something that you could do? Your current business attempts are not working out so what's something you could do that is valuable and that people are currently paying for?" He helped me cut right to it and I said, "Well, I'm a talented writer, I've been writing all my life, I've never been able to put it down," and he said, "Well yeah, people need that, why don't we give it a try, you can come and write for me. I need to hire a writer, I've got blogs and content that I physically can't get to, because I'm too busy, why don't you come and write content for my team? If I like it and you like it, we'll keep doing it, and then we'll see what comes of it." So I started doing that, join the mastermind, and about two months after that, hands started to go up in and said, "I need help, too, can you come and write for me, I'll pay for it." Six months later, I had a business. It just goes to show you sometimes you've got to do this. If you don't know who you're looking for, and I didn't for many years, sometimes you got to do this for a long time. But eventually, you're gonna do it for the right person if you don't give up and you keep doing it, eventually, you're gonna do it for the right person who has the ability to elevate your business to the next level and that's what happened to me. I just kept doing it until the right person came along and then all of a sudden, I was a legit entrepreneur, just like I always wanted to be.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture your network in your community?
There are a couple of different ways I do it. What I found is that the most meaningful and impactful ways are video messages and handwritten notes. Now, you might think, Well, I know hundreds of people that's an awful lot of time. I don't do hundreds of people, any more than you would, but you can do one a day. You could batch record 20 videos one day out of a month, and send them right. What that does is it communicates something besides whatever message you send, it also communicates that this person could have busied themselves with any number of things in their business, instead, they chose to spend 60 to 90 seconds, greeting me personally or two minutes writing to say they care with their hand instead of with their keyboard. It just works. I get handwritten stuff from people and maybe it doesn't impact me the way it impacts other people. I think it's nice, but I'm so used to it that I guess I don't notice it the way other people do, but that's the most important way. The second thing is just continuing to show up for one reason or another besides your own self-interest. People will tell you all sorts of things about themselves, it's not a mystery, right? They advertise half of it on social media, the other half you can pick up by having conversations with them. But they'll tell you all sorts of things, right. How did I know that you were a hockey player? Well, because I asked you about it because I saw it on your profile. So I could talk hockey with you all day long. I can tell you how incredibly disappointed I am that once again that the Edmonton Oilers were eliminated from the Stanley Cup playoffs. I'm so tired of my hometown team being a bunch of losers, but anyway, I won't get into that. That's the thing, is like people tell you all sorts of useful information about themselves, you've just got to write it down when they tell you and then you have excuses to talk to them again.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I have to think of how my 20-year-old self was. But I would say get a lot more curious and a lot less rushed to get to the quick answer of why things are the way they are. It's a funny thing, Lori, I'm 41 and I feel like I have more time left on the clock. Even though chronologically I'm 20 or 21 years removed from that experience, I felt like I had less time left on the clock back then. Part of the reason is how enriched my life is by the personal relationships that I have. If you want anything that's an indicator of the likelihood that you will live to a ripe old age, in great health, and depart this planet surrounded by people who care about you and have nothing but nice things to say about you, it's the quality of the relationships that you're building today. People are not organisms to be analyzed in a lab, they're living breathing stories and the person who cares enough to learn about those stories. Now, we don't have time to learn each other's entire biography from cradle to grave, but I could give you enough time to learn what's been going well for you in the last few weeks, what's your current struggle and what are you looking forward to in the future? Those are questions I could ask so the person who has the ability to treat people that way, consistently everywhere they go will never lack for friends. I was so the opposite of that when I was 20 because I was just so self-absorbed and self-involved and so conditioned to think of myself and others the opposite way that life was meaningless and there wasn't anything to it. The reality we all have these stories, we have these unique things that no one else has lived or experienced quite the same way we have. If you can hold on to that, and never lose your curiosity about it, I think it's probably one of the most potent ingredients of a long life well lived and I wish I could go back until my 20-year-old self that and have him understand it.
You said that you've got an offer for our listeners. Can you talk a little bit about that real quick and how our listeners can access that?
Yes, the book is called Influencer Networking Secrets, published by my good friends at Morgan James publishing. I can feel over time that I'm going to need to issue probably a second or third edition of this because networking just keeps getting more and more interesting. It basically lays out a very simple blueprint, both of how to be, as well as how to do. So there are practical tips in there that you may need to take and tailor to your unique experience. But they flow from overarching, unchanging principles that are built into the planet we live on in the universe we live in, that have not changed for 1000s of years and they form the cornerstone of all success, I think that you see going on in the world is all takes place because at least two or more people are involved cooperating with each other. I found that to be a tremendously useful way of building my business. The digital copy will be available to any listener who wants it. If you'd like a physical copy, feel free to reach out to me via social media and I can run...
Meet Shannon
Shannon is the Executive Director of The Community, a nonprofit he founded while incarcerated to foster the successes, humanity, and agency of people with criminal records. He is also Co-Owner of Paradigm Shyft, a new Second Chance employment consulting agency that trains incarcerated people prior to release and helps employers benefit from this untapped pool both while incarcerated and post-release.
Meet Adam
Three days after turning 15 years old, Adam was involved in a gang-related homicide and received a life sentence. He would become the youngest inmate within the walls of Wisconsin's most violent adult prison. But over the following 23 years of incarceration, he would renounce his gang membership and work tirelessly to keep teenagers from joining gangs. Today, Adam is dedicated to providing those released with the resources needed to succeed and making our community a safer place.
What exactly does Second Chance employment mean and why should people care about it?
Shannon: So second chance employment basically just refers to helping people who have gone through the justice system get employed after that experience. So it can be anyone who was sentenced to probation, sentenced to some years in prison, or as in Adam's case life in prison. One statistic that, to me, is the only conversation that needs to really be had when it comes to, what do we do when it comes to people coming out of prison and people that have criminal records, is that 95% of people who go to prison, come back. So who do we want them to be when they return to our communities, because they're going to be coming, regardless of what a person thinks, or what anyone believes in terms of their political ideology, they're going to return. So we should at least have a process set up to incorporate the value they have as human beings and as employers and as citizens as much as possible. So second chance employment is all about how do we best do that?
Adam: Just to expound a little bit on what Shannon said, If 95% of the people that are going to prison come home, we should care about it. Because eventually, at some point, 95% of the people that have been incarcerated might be your neighbor. So do we want that neighbor to be somebody who can contribute successfully to society or do we want that somebody to be someone that feels ostracized has to go back to what they used to do because nobody will hire them? A lot of people who have gotten out of prison have children, and in no way is it an excuse to commit crimes if you can't provide food for your family, but we have to look at it realistically and understand that okay, if John Doe has served his time or her time, and they want to contribute to society, but nobody will hire them, what are they going to do? Again, no justification, but we have to really start looking at things logically.
What has been the experience of companies and people in general who have hired from the justice impacted community?
Shannon: So one thing I want to point out with that is that term is really interesting because there's a lot of debate within the advocacy groups and justice reform groups and abolition groups and all the other terms that go around this kind of word and really just comes down to people that have gone through the carceral side of the system, you've got justice impacted, system impacted justice-involved, there's a number of terms. That's one thing, I would definitely want to encourage anyone who's looking at it to not get too scared by what terms do I use or what language is appropriate? I think people would generally be very open to somebody just asking, "How do I refer to this population?" The heart is usually the most important thing. So that's one thing I want to touch on is the language can sometimes be a barrier for people when it comes to getting involved in a lot of things and the way the world is operating now with a lot of areas opening up for groups that have traditionally been disadvantaged to some degree. The numbers kind of speak for themselves, and you have the second chance business coalition has been put together and they have a number of companies, big-time companies, Kroger, Walmart, MasterCard, McDonald's, Amazon, they've all signed on as supporting this, and showing that they are really behind the value this population brings, and really trying to incorporate them. 82% of managers report that the value of Second Chance employees brings to the organization is as high as or higher than that of workers without records bring. It's something that we hear a lot too from organizations that get people jobs, and they get out. Even on work release, which we both experienced inside before we were currently in prison working at free jobs, is that there's a hunger, there's a humility, there's a desire to really show and get our life back that you get from workers that are formerly incarcerated that you don't always get from people who have been out in the world and kind of take a lot of things for granted. So both the numbers and our experience that we've seen personally and from groups that we work with, who get people jobs, shows that there's a significant value behind this population being hired not just as charity, but to help everyone grown and help out their bottom lines.
What happens if there's still discrimination based on criminal history if that's the way companies are looking at things?
Adam: I think it kind of goes back to what I was referencing earlier. What happens if that's the case? Let's say somebody with a criminal background applied for a job, they turn them down, and or continue to get turned down, what does that look like for them? So what does going dark look like? What does somebody do? So I think when you ask what happens, I feel and this is truly unfortunate, in my opinion, but I feel another victim is going to be creative because what other options are there? If they cannot work to provide that food or shelter for their family what does that look like? And so many times people just disregard that. They just kind of say, well, they shouldn't have made that mistake. But I'm a firm believer in whatever sentence you have shouldn't necessarily be deemed as a life sentence. If you're sentenced to five years in prison for whatever crime and you get out, if you can't get a job because of that record it becomes a de facto life sentence and that's unacceptable.
How can companies approach finding second chance employees?
Adam: They approach one of the many re-entry organizations that are in Milwaukee currently. Us, for instance, Partners and Hope, we are constantly bombarded by employers saying, "Look, we need workers, we just need somebody that's going to show up, day in and day out and work hard, we're willing to pay them well." One of the biggest myths I think people who have been incarcerated are told is that nobody's gonna hire them when they get out. Right now, at least in Milwaukee, in this jobs boom, it's the exact opposite. We can pretty much store our rock and find an employer willing to hire somebody. For a lot of people, whether they're in work release status, or Huber status, those are people that they know, for a fact are going to show up, unlike a lot of the other employees. So right now it's the best time in recent memory, in my opinion, for those who are with criminal records can get employed.
I would imagine on a national level, that there are resources available for that?
Shannon: There's a variety of resources. The things that I've seen, that I've encountered, that I find reliable, are kind of reaching out to some of those that can connect you to others. So Adam's organization, Partners in Hope, and mine in The Community, we very much are hubs where you can come to us we have a variety of partners. We're very deep into this space, in the city, and statewide and even nationally. The https://secondchancebusinesscoalition.org/ have a lot of little resources, a lot of advice, things for you to go to and organizations can then kind of have more of a boutique approach. So if you are trying to just get information on maybe an organization to contact or some stuff to read and get a better understanding of things. That's what stuff like Second Chance business coalition will help with or some of the other state entities, there's a lot of resource directories and so forth. But then if you really want to understand how to deal with individuals, the micro-level, that's where we would come in and be able to help incorporate and even attract, retain and train and retain talent. We have a whole pipeline of people coming out that we're connecting with to get them trained so that they will be really prepared to enter job fields and have connections with organizations and industries before they get out. So there's that loyalty concept as well. Honestly, you can reach out to us, and we probably can connect anybody in the state with where they're trying to go and what they need help with in this regard for hiring for this population.
Can you share with our listeners one of your favorite networking experiences that you've had?
Shannon: I have a number of them because when I was inside, I was immensely blessed to just have people who would allow me to make three-way phone calls. So the organization itself began because of a small donation we had from an executive director of an organization called Hudson Link in New York, and they were one of the preeminent higher education prison programs in the country at that time. So just doing that reaching out to him and staying in touch with him and then he donated to help the organization get going and donated along the way. He's just been a really powerful advocate and resource since 2013 back when I first connected with him. So that was one when I was in and when I got out, clubhouse. A friend of mine who I knew in high school, I just was talking to him about a trucking company that I had set up with a friend. At the time I didn't know what I was gonna do and he was like, "Let me connect you on clubhouse, there's this trucking guru." I didn’t know what I was doing, I just got on there and right away from that, I made so many connections nationally, in the work that we do that is really just borne fruit. It's just been really cool how the craziest things are just you go down an alley and find yourself in a palace sometimes.
Adam: For me, if I had to describe my life, and success so far be at the results of networking. For me, one of the sessions that we run here is called Building Bridges with Law Enforcement, where we invite officers all the way up from rookie to inspector within the MPD to come to humanize the badge. We give our guys that have gotten out of prison, a chance to humanize the tattoo, so to speak. We create a safe space for conversation to be held so we can look at each other as human beings. One of these sessions there was at the time, a Captain that attended and she has since been promoted to inspector. She now is the supervisor of the police academy and last year with all the George Floyd and Blake situations, there's definitely a need for better relationships between the community and the police department. So that connection led me to meet the captain at the police academy and we came to a decision on how to best combine those who have gotten out of prison with those just entering the police department. So we came up with this idea where I was introduced and went undercover at the police academy. My name was Lieutenant Smith from Detroit and I kind of just gave myself a chance to humanize myself without the preconceived biases of incarceration. It was one of the most powerful experiences of my life and it all came from a session that we did here that led to one step further and one step further beyond that.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture your network?
Shannon: For me, it's just been a matter of always trying to make sure that I'm connecting people to other people or resources that I see they need. Because then that fuels them to in turn, remember me when something comes about that they would find to be valuable to the work I'm doing or any projects I have or even like in my career in general. So it's always about putting myself out there for them first, and then trusting the process that it will come back around. Even if it doesn't you're still helping people that you've, for whatever reason found a connection to, and by then helping their work, it's just helping you still, because that's the whole goal is to have a macro view of the way we're operating instead of the transactional way which is a terrible way to operate the world. It'll come back to me, even if it doesn't because you directly offer something to me, you're just doing your work and doing good by the connection I made, the resource I provided or the help I gave you is going to help us in general, because I believe in what you're doing.
Adam: For me, I would say, given the job title that I have now, community outreach specialist, networking and keeping those relationships active is paramount to the success of my role within this organization. I think it boils down to little things, just being a human being and accepting others as human beings as well. So as crazy and as simple as it sounds like I go back to those lessons I learned in the sandbox of just play nice with others, seem interested, be interested, and it might be off the topic of whatever current meeting you might be in, but I feel relationship building is a pivotal part of network building. Nobody's going to remember someone that just looks at you as a means to an end, I think you really have to look at the person as a person, which seems like an odd thing to say. I feel it's extremely important to humanize one another because I think that sticks in people's minds in the end.
We've all heard of the six degrees of separation. Who would be the one person that you'd love to connect with and do you think you can do it within the sixth degree?
Shannon: It's an interesting question because, for me, I feel that anyone that I look at it and they give me a sense of, "I wish I could talk to that person," just in my experience. Also, I'm kind of a baby, I've only been out now for eight months. But my degree is in business and I've read countless pieces of literature about how the world operates in this sense. So I feel like I'm versed enough to say this, that on the way to meeting that person through the six degrees, one of those degrees is going to be more interesting and more valuable in the person I felt like I was trying to get to. So it would be more so that I'd be wanting to reach that person with the intent of finding out who really is going to be more intriguing and more connected to or aligned with what I'm trying to do in life along the way. Again, just trusting that process. I like to explore, I think I'm just gonna find the thread and pull on it and I don't think that going for the ultimate specific person that I think is going to be who I want to talk to, is the best way to go.
Adam: To answer that, I kind of have to help you understand what it feels like to have served 23 years in prison. Prison is a very dehumanizing place so I find that even today, I sometimes struggle with anything is possible. Even though I know that consciously, sometimes I feel not, actually, I'll take a step back before I answer my own thought. Inside everything kind of looks like it's a movie so when you watch the news, or you watch a movie or TV show, it all seems foreign, you don't necessarily feel as though you're a part of society. So now that I'm out, sometimes I have to tell myself you can contact whomever you want to. There is that avenue for that and I've realized in the two and a half years that I've been released, that the six degrees of separation concept are very accurate. I can only speak to really Milwaukee at this point, but I feel that there are very few people in Milwaukee that I couldn't contact within someone in my social circle. Then taking that nationally, I feel depending on the circumstance, the same would probably apply. I feel you have to have a give or a reason to reach out to some of these individuals. But I think at the end of the day, it's possible. I don't know if I put a name on the person I want to meet, but it would definitely be a large investor because I feel if we had the funds to do what we needed to do, we could truly save some lives. So rather than approaching a person for a reason, there will probably be a foundation that has the means to help us financially and make our community a safer place.
Do either of you have any final word or advice to offer our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
Shannon: I think really just if you have any interest in the field that we're in, and in hiring from this population, and connecting to the pipeline of people we are working on right now, just contact us. We have a lot of experience and connections in this space to be of value to a person if this sparked their interest.
Adam: I guess the last thing I would suggest is we get that people who have been incarcerated at the end of the day, they've heard somebody and you can't uncry those tears of that pain caused. So we get it, but at the end of the day, knowing that 95% of the people that come out, are going to in some way need to make the society a better place and so we just want to ask people, for those of you who are thinking about are contemplating hiring somebody with a criminal background, would you want to be held responsible for the worst mistake you ever made in your life, and have that held against you forever? Again, not taking away from the pain and harm that people have caused, we get it. But at some point, if we're truly invested in making our community a safer place, we have to start looking at things a little bit differently. Hopefully, at some point, everyone can give those who have made a mistake, a second chance.
Connect with Shannon & Adam
Emails: adam@paradigmshyft.org and shannon@paradigmshyft.org
The Community: https://thecommunitynow.us/
Community Warehouse: https://www.thecommunitywarehouse.org/
Meet Lisa
She is the President of Evolution Marketing, a Wisconsin-based women-owned certified B Corporation specializing in the area of global sustainability consulting and storytelling, environmentally responsible creative design, and ethical marketing.
I keep hearing about the social side of sustainability, but I thought sustainability was only about recycling and addressing environmental issues. Can you define that for us?
In all sincerity, the average American really believes that when you say sustainability, you're talking about the environmental side. True sustainability comes in a holistic manner and what that means we like to talk about it as like three legs of a stool. So those three legs of the stool are people which would be the social side. So that equates to corporate social responsibility. Planet would be the environmental stewardship side, which is the environmental side. Then profit or economic viability would be making sure that the business you're doing is making money while you're doing sustainability. So all three of those parts interconnected together are what true holistic sustainability is. So you can't really address an environmental issue without also addressing the people side, or the community side or the supply chain side. So everything is all connected together. Here's the definition that I really love because it puts it pretty clearly: Sustainability means ensuring prosperity and environmental protection without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their needs. So really, at its heart, it's all about people.
Why is it important for businesses to begin addressing and adopting sustainable business strategies and actions?
It kind of goes back to what we were just talking about with COVID. The reality is, Americans today want business to solve social problems. 20 years ago, Americans expected government and or nonprofits to solve the world's problems or the social problems that we have in our communities. But after the last couple of years in this United States, there's a lot of data that talks about how consumer attitudes have changed, and specifically Americans attitudes have changed, saying that they really want business to be the one to solve social problems. If you look at what happened Last year, business was the one that really jumped up or stood up in many cases to address not all their worker issues, but address community sustainability. So I would say transparency is a big part of this. Customers, consumers, the public, want to know what a business is doing, and that's why I think sustainability strategies are really important right now because they help to tell the story of the actions that you're taking in your organization.
If I want to get help to make sure my business was more sustainable, are there references available? Do you have resources for Wisconsin and even beyond?
I am a walking resource for sustainability because I love sustainability and its parcel to what our business does! So if you're in the state of Wisconsin and your listener, we have a program, it's through the Wisconsin Sustainable Business Council. It's called the Green Masters Program which was established in 2009. Evolution Marketing, actually, was one of the original 13 businesses to pilot the program. What it is, is it's an assessment and recognition program for Wisconsin businesses interested in improving and being recognized for their sustainability initiatives. So what it means is, if you've never done anything and sustainability, and you're kind of looking for the on-ramp on like, where do you begin to learn about sustainability and what you could do in your business, I would say, go check out https://www.wisconsinsustainability.com/ and then go to the Green Masters tab on the website and you can actually download the questions. So the program runs all year round. For new businesses is free to apply until October 31 2021 and if you're an existing business, who already participates in the program, it's free to apply before August 31. So after August 31, you pay a small fee, which isn't in the grand scheme of things a big deal. Then we close the program on November 1, and in December at our annual conference, which happens to take place in Wisconsin, we announce the Green Masters Companies. So those are the 20% of the companies that apply to the program, who are the top score getters. With the program, there are three levels, and the apprentice level is the beginning. So as long as you're taking one action, each of the nine different areas of sustainability, you can come in at the apprentice level. As I said, it's a recognition program so it really helps you to start on your trip, and then on your road to sustainability. Then over time, you can compare your year-by-year data. So if you're a company like mine, we've been a Master Company for several years and each year, we benchmark against the previous year for our data. We use that as a way to do improvements within our organization. So that's a free program if you're a Wisconsin business, and if you're new to the program, the first year is free and the second year, as long as you apply by August 31 is still free to participate. Then there's this program called the B Impact Assessment. This is for national companies and global companies. So there's part of this Certified B Corp movement and what that means is the BIA (B Impact Assessment) is a global tool that is free for any business in the world to go and to use. I don't know how many countries we're in right now, I think we're in over 50 countries that have companies that have become Certified B Corp and there's 4000 of us now in the world. So your business gets audited through completing this BIA and it is free if you don't want to get certified. So all of the questions for the BIA are there, you can go and you can put your information in, and you have to get a minimum score of 80 points in order to qualify to become certified. So again, if you're a little bit more advanced in the sustainability realm or if you're in the UK, or you're in Mexico, and you want to look at what's the global tool that's out there, the B Impact Assessment is free. Last year 46,000, businesses were new to it, and they put their information. Now, granted, they didn't all try to become certified, but I think that's really amazing! That shows that this is a global movement, and more and more businesses are wanting to see kind of where they're at across the globe. It's based on a global way of looking at sustainability, which is awesome!
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
Again, I love sustainability. So for me, I really enjoy going to conferences, workshops, webinars, really any event tied to sustainability. For me, finding like-minded folks or people who might think the same way I think or who are working in the same space is just is wonderful. The discipline of sustainability is relatively new, we're only 15 years old. So it's been more challenging for me to network, especially when I started Evolution Marketing, 14 years ago, there weren't a lot of folks in Wisconsin that were engaged in the sustainability space. So for me going to our Wisconsin Steel Business Council, we have a conference over December, that will always be my favorite networking event of the year, because I get to go and see everyone I know in the state and some folks from other states, too who are engaged in sustainability. This group, especially women in the group has been my foundation, as I've grown my business. Because again, being in a new discipline, it's a little bit more challenging to find colleagues to network with. So I'm really happy that we've been able to grow that space through our WSBC. My friend Jessie and I started a group called Women and Sustainability in 2014 which is another group of women who are working in sustainability in Wisconsin, and we network across that group as well. So to me, it's having folks that are working in the same space as me, that's been my best way to network. Because they understand the challenges and the ups and downs, of what goes into sustainability.
Regardless of the size of your network, it's important to stay in front of and nurture these relationships. How do you best do that?
What we've done is we send newsletters out to all of our clients, as well as our colleagues and friends. In those newsletters, we share resources and tell really good impact stories. We try to help our network be more informed about what's going on in the space because there are a lot of things happening really quickly in sustainability because it is such a new discipline. So really doing the E-newsletters on a regular basis, we do basically every two months, we do an E-newsletter, I think that's been super useful. But the other thing is getting out and doing speaking. For years, I've done public speaking programs or engagements at conferences, events, and community-level events talking about different facets of sustainability. I'm amazed at the things that the public I think they know that they don't know or the questions that the public has. So that's helped me become a better marketer for sustainability products. Sometimes you're in your own space, and you know what you know, but you don't always know what's going on outside of that space, meaning the community. So I can tell you a story if you want! A couple of years ago, the Waukesha County Green Team reached out and they said, "Hey, Lisa, we're doing our countywide sustainability fair in August and we'd like you to be a speaker at the program." I said, "Okay, great! What would you like to speak about?" They're like, "We really want you to talk about sustainable shopping," and I was like, "Sustainable shopping?! Let’s unpack this a bit." As we were talking, it came out that they wanted me to talk about certifications that are on products. So when people go shopping, they know if the product is environmentally responsible, or socially responsible. I was like, "Oh, sure that makes sense to me," and then they kind of went through the rest of the speakers for the day. All of the speakers were highlighting different facets of sustainability, to help the general public who came to the event to learn more and to basically use their money in a better and more environmentally socially responsible manner. So there was education about yard care and not spraying chemicals and all of the different things that if you want to live a sustainable lifestyle you could do. So I put together this program and as I was working on it, I realized that there are over 3500 certifications out there for sustainability for products. That's crazy, right? So I'm like, Alright, what are the top 10 that I think are the most important. So I built my talk around that and I gave it the sustainability fair. The room was standing room only and everybody loved to talk. After that talk, I have given that same talk over 20 times now to other groups. Now, when I put the program together, I thought this is interesting, this is neat, it's about certifications. I was on a podcast where literally I talked about the entire talk I gave on a podcast. This messaging about third-party certifications and what they mean and how that can impact your product buying or your food buying, that is huge! I already knew this information, but I didn't think it was something that the public was craving. I have been proven wrong like the public loves this topic and it really showed me that sometimes even the most basic things about sustainability, most people don't know. So I thought that was a good eye-opener for me and also now when I do community engagement, that's one of the topics I bring in.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I laugh, because when I was in my early 20s, I was like, gotta get a degree, gotta go to graduate school, education, education, education. Looking at the state of the workforce today, I have some really great data at my fingertips and one of the projections that we've seen which we've talked about for a couple of years is that by 2025, 73% of jobs in Wisconsin will not require a four-year degree. So I think back to when I was 20 and I was like, go to undergrad, get my degree, go to graduate school, education is so important. Now I look at my nephew who's 19 and I'm like, "You know what? You can go out and work in the work world, you don't have to have a degree," because so many jobs today are training their workforce and there are so many different types of opportunities that a four-year degree is not required anymore. You can get a certificate, you can get an associate's degree, so many more options exist. So I think my advice would be that, maybe, because everyone tells you this is how it is, it's not what you needed to do. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I went to graduate school and I'm glad I had the experiences I had. But I think so much has changed in the nature of work from the time I was 20 till now and I think younger people who are listening to this podcast, and even employers, I think we all need to really be aware of the fact that so much more of the training today can happen in the workplace. We do the same thing, all of my interns have they go through sustainability training with me and it just a different way of looking at things, but I think it's a better way for the future that we're looking at right now. Especially because there are 7.5 million jobs that are being unfilled right now. So I think putting barriers in place saying somebody that works for you has to have a four-year degree or has to have an advanced degree, I think that that's unrealistic when we look at the future of how do we attract and retain talent.
Sustainability resources available to listeners:
https://greenmkting.com/resources
Social Sustainability: https://greenmkting.com/social-sustainability
Environmental Sustainability: https://greenmkting.com/environmental-sustainability
Economic Viability: https://greenmkting.com/economic-viability
Free tools: https://greenmkting.com/free-tools
Connect with Lisa
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisageasonbauer/
Evolution Marketing’s LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/evolution-marketing-llc/
Meet Duncan
Duncan is the CEO of Littlefield, a company that owns companies such as the Littlefield Company, Paper Airplane Sidecar who are critical equity partner contributors to profit-focused companies. The engine of his company is the Littlefield Company, where they tell under-told stories by delivering scalable content for purpose-driven companies. Plus, he's on a mission to always be a part of the larger conversation and to support everyone to become obsessed with their own unique life.
What is the importance of story when it comes to marketing for a business?
It's one of the things that we recognized as we kind of dug deeper into what we really do well, is that side of the story. Every business owner started a company for a reason. They wanted to connect to an audience, they wanted to sell something, they wanted to be a part of the community, whatever it was. We really want to tell those under-told stories that people don't know about. You walk into a company, and you can put two things together to recognize what they do and why they do it, but there's always a deeper meaning. There's always that thing that can have somebody sparked on attention and build their trust to be a lifelong guest. So it's one of those things where we want to tell those under-told stories that make them stand out against the competition, but also at that point, earn a consumer’s trust. Once you earn that trust, you can have an ask which can be to buy or to donate or show up. That's really where we wanted to lean into is just focusing on the story and not have been so focused on budget or camera equipment, or anything else, it's just let's tell incredible stories, that have people walk through the door and saying, "How can I be a part of this, and how can I help you grow it?" That's where we're, we're so fortunate to be in with some incredible partners who, that's all we care about. It's just the story.
How do you create team and collaboration within your core values?
We focus on letting everyone have some confidence and not the ego. Very early on in the company, we recognize that every story we make, every video we create, every story we get to tell is not ours. So if you look at our portfolio from our website, we've only added roughly six company logos in just two videos in our company's history and all of those six videos are for us. Everything else, we don't put a logo on. We don't want to take the attention away from that partner story because we really believe that yes, like, are we the ones creating it and potentially molding the story? Yeah, but the reality is, it's not our story. So we really have this collective mission as a team to kind of check the ego at the door, and say, "We are really big believers in our core values," and those core values are, bring your best, be your DNA, be positive, and show up for each other. Those four things are not rooted in, I want to be the best person or the best director or the best cinematographer or get my credit here or here, it really goes, "Hey, how can I be a part of the bigger conversation, help a company tell their story to earn their trust and have a lifelong guest." We're collaborative, too, potentially to a fault at times, because it takes us a little longer to build the creative because we have so many internal meetings about it. It's we have so many internal meetings about conversations or companies that we're trying to build stories for or understand companies or brands to then at that point, it could slow us down, because there are so many times where you work with a single cinematographer videographer, and they're like, "Cool, give me 24 hours, and I can create a game plan, we can do this, this and this," because they don't need to talk with 15 people about it. That's where we really go is we want to make sure that we have all ideas on the table and we're really focused on that team effort and it's something that I'm very proud of, honestly. We want to have guys and gals have confidence in what they do, but the bigger picture is we want to make sure our partners have incredible stories to let them drive their businesses and if they drive their businesses, our business will follow up because we've made a great partnership.
It looks like you've worn the professional athlete hat in your life a little bit. How does that experience carry into business ownership?
Yeah, I did. I'm fortunate again, I kind of referenced it earlier, but I feel like I'm one of the luckiest guys in the world. The fact that you just said, I've also worn a professional athlete hat is only more credit to the fact that I believe, I'm the luckiest person out there. Being a professional athlete was an amazing experience. I played golf at the mini-tour level. So I was traveling around the country gambling for a living, it wasn't five-star jets, and hotels and all this stuff taking care of for me and playing for a million dollars a week. We were playing for 5-10 grand and if you didn't bet on yourself in the right week, you were going home empty-handed with other fees and other expenses. It really made you focus on the bigger and I think that's one of the things that really helps me Because right now, you know when I was a professional athlete hitting golf balls and driving range, I was working on something to show up in my golf career and show up under pressure three years from that moment. I have a very similar outlook on business, like everything I'm doing right today is going to show up in business practice and development two-three years from now potentially longer. Because we're just laying the foundation for where we're going. It also taught me more about connections and people than ever, ever learned about the game of golf. It was collaborative. Golf is not a sport where like when we get on the tee box and the guns go off we're trying to beat each other, like crazy, but we come together at the end, and we shake hands and go grab a meal together afterward. In my opinion, that's the way business should be. It's I'm not trying to be better than any business, I'm just trying to be the best version of myself. I'm trying to have my business and my team be the best version of their self today and that goes back to like our core values, be your DNA. Right now, today is the best version of yourself because you can't experience tomorrow, and you've become better than yesterday, you've learned more than yesterday so right now, the minute where n is the best version of yourself. So if you can't show up and be your unique DNA, then you know what, go look in the mirror and make sure you come together and try to be the best version of yourself, to help somebody, to build something, to grow something. The other thing about it is I learned how to work really hard. Being a professional athlete, you put everything at it. My goal is to be the number one player in the world and I failed at that goal, I did not reach that goal. But I'm really thrilled that I failed at it and I'm really thrilled that I'm currently not sitting on the couch, watching my buddies win millions on tour, and going, "Oh, I wish." I'm really fortunate that I had the realization that I got to move on, I got to do something different and I'm really happy where I've landed because it's a blast.
Can you share with our listeners one of your favorite networking experiences that you've had?
This is gonna sound kind of funny, but COVID has is a terrible thing and has affected so many people and so many just detrimental things. But the ability for the world to come together over zoom, or Google meets, or really wherever has been an amazing opportunity for us. So I mean, there are countless times where I have been on zoom calls that have been so positive and supportive and collaborative. I can honestly say that I have met some of the best people and some of my now what I would consider Dear Dear friends and business partners over zoom and virtual happy hours over the last year. It's one of those things where the world kind of came to everyone if they wanted it to come to you. There's a great group that happens every other Thursday and they started off with like, 20 people in a room and now there's like 400 people that are on the list, and at least a few 100 people show up every week now just to collaborate and talk about VCs and venture-backed companies and tech, and it's just an amazing opportunity for the world to kind of come together and be collaborative, even if they're not in the same city. You look at the meetings from before COVID and you had a couple of meetings a day, you ran around for a cup of coffee, and you're like, "Man, that was a really busy day with four people," and now it's like, alright, you do four people in an hour and a half. I'm not saying I'm fortunate for COVID, because that's just a terrible thing, but for how the world has opened up to allow people to kind of open their arms and bring people together through zoom, and the digital age has been the ultimate networking experience for me across the board over the last year. There was a time in COVID, where we did this thing called a marketing campaign called eight to five, where I literally left my zoom open, live from eight to five every single day, Monday through Friday. What the concept started as was just an internal team thing, where anyone can pop into our kind of virtual living room and say, "Hey, ask questions, talk to me," whatever it is. So it was really cool when I was there by myself just working away and then all of a sudden, two team members would go cool, let's go to the living room and chat and I would literally put myself on mute cause they would have a conversation. It was so cool, but then at that point, we opened it up to everybody. We sent it out, we said, "Hey, please come join us whenever you want, just pop in, here's the link, this will be open from eight to five every day." So like when I went to have lunch or have a coffee meeting, we put just a blank screen up that says like, "Hey, out at lunch," and I would come back and we had friends from childhood pop on and even my mom got on their once. So that was an experience, but we had people come from different businesses and different companies that we supported. And like we built videos for and stories for, and then all of a sudden like they're talking and figuring out how to collaborate. It was a really fun time.
How do you stay in front of them best nurture your network in your community?
I think it's perfect timing because I don't know if you recognize this, but I have stayed silent on social media for the last three and a half years. I haven't posted on my own personal social media since October 9th of 2017. It's funny to think that I'm the CEO of a content company and I haven't posted on a single thing on my personal page in over three and a half years. But yesterday was the very first day that I am back online and we put a post out and now we're prepared and we are organized to not have it stop. So I think the best way to nurture and build community in your networking is again, it's a matter of who you are and what your DNA is. You have to look at yourself in the mirror and go, "What's right for me." Right now the world and the algorithms will tell you video is the king, but if you're terrible on video, you might not want to go on video. If you're a great writer then just double down on a blog, really lean into Twitter, all these different things to recognize that here's where your strength is. I would say in the way you nurture and what you build is if you want to become a leading expert, then figure out the right way to talk about it, and figure out the right way that's right for you because if you enjoy it, you won't fight it. I'm dyslexic so if you told me that I needed to write a blog every day, four hours of my day would be gone. I would hate it, it'd be miserable, but if you say, "Just put a two-minute video out every single day," I can do that in three minutes. I don't need to plan for it, I flip the camera on and I can talk.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I think patience would be a great word. When I played golf I thought I needed to be at the top of the world when I was 30. Recognizing that it's a 40-year career is tough for a 25-year-old who thinks he knows everything. So for me right now, I recognize that to achieve my goal for where I want to go, it's going to take 40, maybe 50 years, but I'm very much up and prepared for it. Then I would also say, experience. Understand where you want to go look at yourself in the mirror, be good with yourself, be self-aware about where you want to go and how much you want to sacrifice for it. Are you willing to sacrifice everything for something and if you are, man, don't let anyone stop you? Put positive people who can believe and celebrate you for who you are because then at that point, you're gonna be able to change the world, or you're gonna make the biggest impact on someone's life. So patience would be the big one as well. That's maybe the biggest one because recognizing that we get to play a game that's not like the NFL or the NBA when your career is over in the ballpark of 35-40. But, you and I get to build businesses for the next 40 years, potentially. I kind of joked that yesterday was the first day of the next 40 years of posting online every single day. We put up the second one today and it was okay to down 40 years to go. It's going to be bigger and I'm really excited about getting myself a little more patience even though I work 12 straight hours a day and I love what I do and all that kind of stuff, but to recognize that I have the patience to achieve the goal that I'm going after is different than when I was 24 and trying to conquer the golf world.
Connect with Duncan:
Website: https://thelittlefield.co/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/duncanlittlefield/
Facebook: @TheLittlefieldCo
Twitter: @DFLittlefield
Instagram: @dflittlefield
Email: duncan@thelittlefield.co
Meet Brad
Brad has been supporting and improving the lives of those around him for over four decades. He has brought perspective and context into every role he has had. Having been in manufacturing for most of his adult career, he has forged relationships by learning what matters to the people. In doing so, Brad was able to master the art of change management. Working with family-owned blue-collar businesses as a customer and supplier, Brad understands both sides of the industry creating growth and wealth.
In your line of work, you do a lot with regard to accountability and setting expectations. Can you speak to our listeners a little bit about why it's so important to have set expectations and accountability?
It's important for multiple reasons. When you look at it from a business owner’s perspective, it's important to know what your team is going to accomplish, not so much the tasks that they need to do, but what are the results that you're looking for? And clearly communicating that expectation because as humans, we really don't want to disappoint people that are really not in most people's natures are disappointed or upset. So when we have clear expectations, we know what we're working towards on a regular basis. So we're clear on what we need to achieve, we know what others are expecting from us and it makes life just so much easier to know. If you knew what you were expecting for dinner every night, if it was planned out every night, for the rest of your life, that conversation that happens of what's for dinner and that whole big mess that happens in many, many households just don’t happen because you know you have a plan, you know what the expectations are. And it just makes life a little bit easier when you know what the expectations are. On the accountability side, it is important to allow us to know as employees and or as owners, what you're accountable to do, what that result really means. So if you're accountable to make sure that the driveway gets poured, and it's finished the customer satisfaction if you're a concrete guy, you now know what you're accountable for and what that responsibility looks like and you're given the authority along with that accountability to make sure that you can deliver those results. That's where a lot of disconnect ends up happening is we tend to give the accountability without necessarily the authority to make those decisions or use the resources appropriately to allow the result to happen.
What is the turnaround when you see business owners start enacting expectations and accountability as far as the challenges that they're experiencing with their business?
The first challenge is to get the owners to understand what the expectations are from a results perspective. Most are so task-focused, I want you to make 30 calls a day, I want you to see 10 customers, I want you to pick 15 lines of orders every hour. So we're so focused on the task that we lose focus on what the result is. That's where we start stemming the creativity problem to allow people to be creative solution problem solvers. So the first step is to get the owner to think about the results. Once they define the results and they get them documented and we get the position agreement and alignment and have the employee-employer conversation, there's this big weight lifted off of people's shoulders, because they now know what's expected. They come into work and they do that thing to focus on those results and the noise and the garbage that everybody goes and works on every day goes away. It doesn't actually go away, it just gets refocused into more positive energy because we're not focusing on the minutia, we're focusing on the bigger picture. Instead of the did you make the 25 phone calls? No, I made 15 phone calls, but I got $300,000 worth of proposals written with those 15 phone calls. So the number of phone calls didn't matter, the proposal writing was what mattered.
There's this major challenge that's faced with regards to recruiting and attracting especially that Gen Z crowd. How can companies go about and do a better job of getting that audience to want to work within their organization?
So this may sound really weird, but the Gen Z kids that are 24 and younger right now, they will likely be as loyal as the boomers were if you give them a reason to be loyal. So being able to set your expectations, show them a career path. Yep, you might start them at $12, $13, or whatever that number is, but if you can show them the path, to get from A to B to C to D, over a period of time, they will stay and they will have a sense of purpose. They will know what they're working towards and what they're working for. Versus historically, many would say, "Hey, kid, come in here, go do the slop work and in 30 years, you'll be a master machinist, and good luck to you." Kids nowadays aren't looking at 30 years, they're looking at 2, 3, 5 years so if you can show them the path to go from 12 to 15, to 20 to 25, that's where that results-based accountability aspects of running your business can now show them how to get from A to B much sooner because maybe you're manufacturing guy and your machine is quality rate might be 400 ppm. If somebody can run it at two, well, they're worth more to your company so pay them more. Show them the results, if they can demonstrate consistent results over and over again and bring value to the organization, they should be rewarded accordingly, versus time in seat. That's going to be the biggest change for Gen Z is reward based on performance. Not just wisdom, but performance to start with, and show them how to get there quicker and then slowly work in the wisdom piece of that because wisdom and performance typically are inverses of each other.
What's one of the biggest opportunities you see for companies today?
It's the Gen Z. The Gen Z kids learn differently, they're quicker at getting many tasks completed. Depending on what the industry is, there are many things that are different. Skilled Trades as an example, not as much exposure, not as much of that common sense application, but they've learned differently. Provided the right opportunities, they'll adapt. They are probably the most adaptable generation that I've seen working within the FIRST Robotics organization and seeing that my kids grow up and what they've had to go through versus what some of my friends that are younger than me and myself had to go through. Far more adaptable, far more open to asking the question, "Why are we doing it this way?" Versus being told to do something, you just did it even though you knew it was wrong. When I first entered the workforce, just do it this way, there was no questioning, you just went ahead and did it. These kids are far more apt to connect, they are the largest connected generation on the planet. A Gen Z kid here in the US versus a Gen Z kid in Europe are probably more connected today in similar experiences from technology and resources and information than any other generation. So the world is wide open and when you want to talk about networking, I mean, just think of all the gaming connections and all the other things as they enter the workforce. It's just mind-blowing how much opportunity exists by bringing in young talent into an organization. You've got to be willing to do it, you gotta be open-minded enough to say, I'm going to out behave my competition.
Can you share with our listeners one of your favorite networking experiences that you've had?
One of my favorite networking experiences was actually one of my most uncomfortable experiences. So one of the associations here in town provides a women's event. I am not a woman, in any way, shape, or form. But I was intrigued by the content that was being delivered. It was an open forum so I get to the event and I'm the only guy at the event. I knew some people that were attending and different things, but it was the most uncomfortable I've ever been in a networking event. However, it was also one of the most rewarding because I had to put my biases down, my guard down, all those judgment things down and look inward into, "Hey, I am the one that's different in this room, how can I use that to my advantage to be able to create relationships and networking opportunities and use the difference as an opportunity versus the same?" People like being comfortable in the same environment when I was very uncomfortable and made some great connections and some great referral opportunities and it was the most uncomfortable I've ever been and I would not change for the world that really changed my mindset about networking moving forward.
How do you stay in front of and nurture the community that you've created?
It's lots of conversations through LinkedIn, connecting on their posts, connecting and commenting on their posts. If I happen to have Facebook connections with them, as well, as an old person, Facebook is kind of the place where I go for social sometimes that are not professional. I've started leveraging my CRM to put in my task reminders, to say, "Hey, I should really contact this person in four months to get together for lunch, or to have a cup of coffee, or to find out how the promotion went," those types of things. So leveraging a CRM tool to stay connected and put those reminders out there are very important. Past colleagues, I will actually make phone calls every three to six months when I'm driving now, in between, because the drive time now is that opportunity to create the connection up to say, "Hey, it's been a while what's going on?" And just get some industry updates, opportunities and just stay connected to various businesses.
What advice would you offer that business professional is really looking to grow their network?
So a couple of weeks ago, I did a video on LinkedIn about the hard sell that happens on LinkedIn all the time, so don't do that. The biggest thing is it be your authentic self. If you can be your authentic self, and you're there to develop a relationship, I have no problem connecting with somebody on LinkedIn or having a 15-minute call just to get to know and understand their business and see what can happen. But if you're going to come out of the gates blazing and pitch me what you're going to sell me or you're just going to come out that way from the get-go, I don't want to talk to you. I don't need to be sold to. I may have people in my network that can help you with but I'm likely not going to be your buyer because you're selling me something that 4,500 other people have probably tried to sell me something and I already have somebody in my network from that perspective. That doesn't mean I don't need somebody else to be a referral partner or network partner to fit a different niche or level or regional area potentially. Be authentic and be pure in your attempt. If you want to tell me you're going to sell me, then tell me you're gonna sell me and we're not going to connect, but don't backdoor that either.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
Be less judgmental, as you went through and created relationships. Less posturing to be the smartest person in the room at times. That may have limited some opportunities for me. Going into rooms and judging people based on characteristics or different things without ever getting to know them, whether it was the corporate world or networking in my current line for whatever it was, may have created some limiting opportunities for me long term as I look back on some situations.
We've all heard of the six degrees of separation. Who would be the one person that you'd love to connect with and do you think you can do it within the sixth degree?
I think it would be a fun conversation, being a local guy to sit down with Bob Uecker to have a half-hour lunch and just listen to him ramble about change and how baseball is different and just listen to some of those old stories in a row versus an inning here or there over the course of an entire season. Just hearing some of that would be fantastic, to be able to sit down with them and have that direct interaction. Could it be done within six? Yeah, cause he's local, I am confident I'm within six to Mr. Uecker. I would probably start that journey within my Delaware North network, here locally, and start within the organization from that and just connect from that perspective.
Do you have any final words of advice for our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
Connect with me on LinkedIn! I am more than happy to connect with people on LinkedIn and have the opportunity to have a conversation. I wouldn't say my networking is huge, however, I tend to be able to give somebody a connection or two, or create the right connections or have the right conversation to find an opportunity for somebody. I love networking to give people opportunities to meet other folks. I went through my introductions list last year and I made 250 introductions last year.
Connect with Brad:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brad-herda/
Email: bherda@focalpointcoaching.com
Phone: 414-852-4224
Meet Dave
Having started his first business in fourth-grade programming bulletin board systems, working for Apple Computers as a college freshman, and then founding a computer networking services company employing college classmates while in college, Dave Stamm has been has always been passionate about implementing technology and serving people. Dave is currently the CEO of two technology companies, Stamm Technologies and Stamm Media, and a partner at No Small Magic.
Can you just tell us a little bit about these three different companies that you have?
So the first company that I started in college was Stamm Technologies and we provide outsourced IT services to small and medium-sized companies in Metro Milwaukee and Chicagoland areas. Then we later started Stamm Media as an offshoot. It was a client that we had been working with for years in the IT company and that is Stamm Media and we provide technology services and equipment, to large trade shows and corporate events throughout the country. So we rent audiovisual and IT equipment to mostly fortune 500 companies and then we provide the labor and services to set that stuff up at their various events. So that's the event company and then the third company, No Small Magic we started about five years ago and that is an interactive studio, providing primarily custom boutique software written for these corporate event clients that we've got throughout the country. During the pandemic, we wrote a virtual networking platform called Showboat, which has been our big focus over the last year.
Can you tell us a little bit about your background as it relates to networking and technology?
You bet. So both are passions for me. I started out, I was the geek in grade school before you know being a geek in programming was cool, right? This was in the 80s, I started out programming in grade school and was kind of self-taught, but was smart enough. My dad was a salesman, so I was smart enough to realize that at that time, again, being a geek wasn't cool so you had to kind of keep a lid on it. While it was fun to do, you also had to be social and network which is really kind of the function of early selling. So my first job was when I was 14, I started as a Subway sandwich artist at New Berlin subway and actually, it ended up being that the couple that owned that Subway owned another business, which was an audiovisual event company that served big companies nationwide. So I started working with them when I was young and they taught me the ropes and as I grew, having that networking background and being able to be connected to them and their network, and just working hard and networking with people from when I was young really paid off for me. It's one of the big reasons that we are where we are right now with the three companies.
How is technology enabling networking today and what could be better?
I think over the last year as the pandemic happened, we've all gravitated towards it. All the platforms existed prior to the pandemic, we had zoom, and we had teams, and sure they've added some features, but for the most part, those platforms existed prior to the pandemic. Now we're all using them in our daily lives, whether it's for work, and you're on multiple zoom meetings in a day, or it's kids doing virtual school, or get-togethers or virtual birthday parties, or what have you. We're all living in these new technologies and they're second nature and because of the event business we had, we serve a lot of clients nationwide, we were using these tools prior, but for the most part, we were only ever using audio. Everybody would get into a zoom meeting and shut off their video. Now what's been fun is just the way people are using it and it's the authenticity of being able to use these tools. If your kids are running past or your dogs or your cats are in the shot, nobody cares and everyone is authentic. They're themselves in doing whatever they need to do using these tools and so we realized with No Small Magic, one of the things we realized when the pandemic happened is that we couldn't find a platform aside from zoom or teams that really handled networking well. Sure, you can jump into a virtual happy hour and zoom or teams, but it's all in 2D and you all see yourself in like Brady Bunch view and it felt like there wasn't really a great way to have good networking events. That's why we ended up creating Showboat, which is a 3D environment where you can walk around but you still have the audio and video that you're used to in zoom or teams.
How can businesses better leverage what we see as meeting and networking technologies to better serve existing and reach new customers?
What we're seeing right now is as the world reopens, everybody's trying to figure out are they coming back to the office or are they staying remote? Are they going to be permanently hybrid, and if so how does that work? There are pros and cons to any of those three scenarios so it's kind of figuring out what your own company strategy is. If you go purely hybrid, then people come into the office on Sundays, and then they expect that they're going to come in and see their co-workers and maybe have a pick up meeting in the hallway and then they realize the people they want to see aren't there because they're at home. So it's kind of navigating this new world and so we're seeing technologies being able to improve that and blending the face-to-face in with the virtual, and how can people have that office co-presence between virtual and face-to-face using the technologies that are out there.
Can you share one of your most successful or favorite networking stories?
Networking, for me, has been huge. The quick, broad-brush for me is a lot of the contacts that I made when I was really young, 14 to 18 are a lot of the reason that I'm here where I am today. I had no idea at that time that that would matter. Right. Growing up, you just were taught to treat people well and not realizing that it could come back a decade-plus later and benefit you. You're not doing it for that reason, it's just being kind and genuine and taking care of people and doing what you can to help them as people reciprocate that. A lot of those lessons I learned when I was younger came through and then even when I was starting the IT company, a lot of clients were built upon networking. I joined the MMAC in Milwaukee which is the business Chamber of Commerce and got in there and kept going to meetings and meeting people. At first, it was different, it was kind of like stepping out of your comfort zone and going to networking events that they had and meeting people and starting to work with them and landing a client or two and then leveraging the client network to get other clients. I honestly think that the majority of the reason we have the clients we do and have the three businesses is all related to big networking and small networking. What I mean by that is, a company when I met somebody that was running a business when I was 19 and then approached me in my 30s and asked me if I would acquire them, and we did and helped kind of grow the business. On to the small, when I say small networking, it's the little interactions that you have in collisions that you have at some of these local networking events that you never realize will become a client and potentially your best client that you've ever had over time. It's so interesting to me, if I look back at my 25 years in business, and so much of what I have is from that networking piece. So I mean, of the three companies, I probably wouldn't have two of them if it wasn't for big networking that I was doing when I was young and having no idea that that would pay off later and we wouldn't have the number of the clients we have if it wasn't for going to and still going to the networking events locally and supporting the local networks and being a part of those teams.
How do you stay in front of them best nurture your network?
I think for me as an owner of 3 companies, it's evolved over time. But realizing that honestly, where it started still makes sense. So for me, some of my specifics were, back to the MMAC, which has been phenomenal for us as an organization. My whole thing with networking is, is you get what you give and you don't want to count ships. So, for instance, when I got in there, originally, I had five clients to my name. When I started out, it was getting into just going into the business after hours, getting into a networking group, and I got into a CEO Roundtable, and I got into all three things, and those three things I just kept going right even a year in. It's not that the results come quickly, it's a year or two in and people get to know you and trust you, and someone works with you and then they spread that you're doing great so it kind of helps your network grow. That was like in the beginning and so then as organizations grow, and some other people on the team pick up some of those pieces of the network and fill those in which we're still involved in those same things that we were involved in 20 years ago, then you find other networks, and it's not always that you're intentionally networking. I might join a tech or a Vistage business group, or other CEO coaching or peer group and inside those peer groups, you start networking. Again, you almost see networking as second nature, you're in a business owner’s peer group to learn from each other. So you're sharing financials, and you're talking about your highs and your lows and challenges you're having, and in the process of doing that, you get to know each other so well, that you're just inherently networking with each other. So you may refer business to each other, you may become a client-vendor relationship, or may even be an acquisition merger type of relationship. Those have all worked for me over time. Our business operates through the traction process, and one of my traction to-dos right now is to rethink my personal networking, because we realized that a lot of what drives us to work with is not just getting clients, but also getting good employees and getting great vendor partners. So I mean, I'm in the process right now of reworking that for myself and figuring out where it makes sense to spend my time.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I would tell myself to move faster, be less concerned and less worried, and just take bigger leaps in general. I started the IT business in college and so aside from a job at Subway and a great job that I loved in college, I never actually had a real business job. The IT company was my first real job and so I never really worked at another company to learn from. So in the beginning, I moved a lot slower just because I was nervous that I was going to screw it up and have to start over. Looking back now I wish I would have just moved a whole lot faster. So that and I also get too deep in the weeds. I'm a tech by nature and I love networking with people. So I love people, and I love technology and I'm often getting too deep end account management on some projects, and I'm getting too deep into the engineering of certain things. I love both of those things, but sometimes when I get too far down the path, I realize that I shouldn't have gotten down there and my team, thankfully, is smarter than me and I should have let them handle it. So there's a bunch of stepping aside and moving quicker.
We've all heard of the six degrees of separation. Who would be the one person that you'd love to connect with and do you think you can do it within the sixth degree?
A person that I really love in business is Richard Branson. I just see all the different companies he's grown to large sizes. He's got a collection of companies, most of them are well known by us and a lot of them even operate outside of this country. I follow him a lot on social media he's also using a lot of the wealth that he's gained from running these companies, which he has tons of fun with. The marketing is totally funny, a lot of guerilla marketing that he's doing, whether it's airlines, or liquor, or music, or what have you and he uses a lot of the wealth for good. Whether it's environmental good or social good, he's just a great person and I would love to somehow network with him and learn more from him than just standing from afar.
Any final words of advice you'd like to offer our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
I think just to reiterate that it's all about giving as much as you can. If you're going to get involved in a networking group, or like a chamber of commerce organization or anything like that, for networking, I think the big piece is not to worry about receiving right away. That will come later, it might even come much later, but it could come big so just focus on giving and being involved. You'll look back over time and realize that it paid off, and I don't think that's ever failed me.
Connect with Dave
Email: dave@nosmallmagic.com
Meet Tobin
When experts are ready to create more conversations with perfect prospects, they call Tobin at bookofexperts.com. He's been called an introverted savant with a superpower for helping you find your tribe and sparking conversations out of thin air. This new book is called Experts Never Chase, because deep down we all know that chasing undermines the hard-won trust and authority of subject matter experts so he helps entrepreneurs find the easy path dialog that drives sales.
Why did you write the book, Experts Never Chase? What's the big idea behind it?
So our book just came out last month. We launched on May the fourth, and since we launched, we've had a successful Kickstarter, which was a unique experience to launch the book with that and I think we're on four or five bestseller lists now. So that's been a new experience for me, I've never done the book thing. My co-author on the book, Cat Stancik has published once before so she had a little bit more experience and it has been great getting some help from friends and experts in that space of what it looks like to launch and market your book. The funny thing is when we did the Kickstarter, we used the exact same process that is outlined in the book. So I think that that was a really fun way to validate that and show people what we're doing at the same time for why they might be interested in the book. The book is not for everyone, but it's really written for expert-based entrepreneurs, so coaches, consultants, people who talk about clients instead of customers, and particularly folks that are feeling like it's harder than it should be. Like, it's really hard to get that next couple of clients and if I had just a couple more clients coming into the mix, it would really change my business, my life, my work-life balance. So the book is how to make that happen without feeling like you have to chase those clients, those prospective clients around because when you do that, it really undoes a lot of the good work that we seek to make in the world.
What do you think is the biggest challenge that you see in our online space of expert-based entrepreneurs and what would really help them out?
The challenge that I'm seeing goes right back to what you described of this reaction of, "I get these messages, and I have no interest in them," so it's this challenge to scale. We've been sold a bill of goods of I'm going to create a business that's like an ATM, it's going to work while I sleep so everything I do in my business has to be built to scale, built to grow big. Relationships are a little bit different because the minute we start treating other individuals like a number on our spreadsheet. We've all done that funnel math where we try talking to 1,000 contacts where that ends in let's say three clients coming out at the bottom of that funnel. What we don't factor into that math is the 997 people at the start, who received that first message and said, "This is probably someone I'll never do business with," because of that first impression. So I think the challenge is how to change that and how to create relationships in a systematic, predictable and consistent way, but not scalable so that you lose that human-to-human connection. Business is done by one person doing business with another. There are other industries, where their consumers and customers and I came out of that world. That was my background, I had to reinvent myself four or five years ago. I was a build your list, push the send button. We sent two emails that produced a million and a half dollars in the nonprofit space. That was my world, like the one to many kinds of digital marketing. But I grew really frustrated because I saw that it wasn't working as consistently as it should because 2 out of 10 people were opening emails, and you'd work really hard to send better emails, and it might go up to 3 out of 10 people. So about four or five years ago went all-in on this one-to-one, talk to people the way I would want to be approached and converse with, build real relationships, and trust that good things are gonna flow from that. Then I had to get more systematic about it myself.
How are you getting those results?
There are three big questions that come up when we do this process and the book was written from the workshops that I do. When I first approached my co-author about doing the book together, she said, "You realize I'm kind of a competitor, right?" But I think that the book is better for having both our voices in it. We didn't hold anything back from the book and we tackle three big questions that come up. The first is how do I find my right fit prospects? Usually, when people they asked this question, it feels like such a big hurdle, such a big boulder that's been dropped in front of them that they can't even imagine how to get started. Because they're looking around and they don't see where their next client could be coming from. So we show them a few strategies in the book, walk them through. The response we get from folks, after they answer this question, they'll get on the other side, and they'll look back over their shoulder and they're like, "That wasn't really the problem, my real problem is I have a handful of people that I would love to do business with, but I don't know how to start this because every time I reach out to people, I feel weird about it, and they run the other way. How do I start a conversation with someone I really want to do business with?" So the same thing happens, we walk through a couple of strategies that have worked really well. It's not a script. Just note that if you guys are hearing this if someone's trying to sell you on a script that's going to make you a million dollars. Scripts don't work because, by the time someone receives that message, you can feel it. We all know when we're getting marketing from someone else, and no one responds well, but if you can send a message and the person on the other end, the receiving end, 100% knows that that message was meant for them alone, that's one of the ways you can make a positive first impression on people. You can personalize, not just first name, but for example, Lori, with you, we started the podcast this way. I said social currency is a brilliant way to have this conversation to talk about what you're doing because it captures so much. There's a whole economy around giving and receiving of attention right now. So that would be how I would reach out to you to make sure that this is a conversation about you and something you care about and not just a copy and paste that everybody else got. The third thing that always comes up and it's always in this order, how do I find my people, what do I say to them to spark a conversation? The third question is how do we take that conversation and turn it into a sales conversation? My co-author says, "How do you go from talking about the weather to talking about whether we should be doing business together or not?" There an art having a really good conversation with someone and to figure out that there may be business here and to do it in an elegant way that everyone feels great about they feel invited into it. It's really about getting permission, getting people the opportunity to raise their hand and say, "Yeah, tell me a little bit more about that." So the book walks through a bunch of examples that have worked really well for me and for the clients that we've worked with in workshops. It's not one phrase that wins at all, it's more the content of when you deliver this, and that you let them feel like they have control of the conversation, that then you get permission which allows you to enter into the specifics of what it might look like if you do business together.
Can you share one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences?
So I have been that guy too where networking is intimidating. The idea of going to the Chamber of Commerce meeting and having to network that way, is really hard for me, honestly. As a business owner, I've forced myself to do that, but it does make me tense up a little bit even thinking about being in that environment. Let me share with you what has really helped me and I think I've cultivated and nurtured this in the online environment, but I'm now finding it works every bit as well in real life. I can have conversations with people, I can genuinely look for the awesome in that. So what is cool about this other person, what are they doing? It doesn't have to be that we went to the same high school or college since everyone's trying to find that rapport. It's really just as a human being, what are they doing that is really cool that I can find to compliment them? That's one of the first things that I'm going to do. The reason I start there is it feels really good to be validated by others and to be recognized and seen for the hard work that we're doing. So if we can start a conversation there, I found it kind of takes off much more easily for both sides, we just all feel good about it. The second thing is I can put my agenda on the back burner for a while. For me, that means hearing what's going on in the other person's world. I might ask them a question like, "So if I did run into someone who was a perfect prospect for you, how would I recognize them?" A question like that creates an opportunity to have a little bit of a deeper conversation and maybe I actually can make a connection. If there's business to be had that can wait a little bit too because we do business with people that we know, like, and trust and there's reciprocity and all that in place. But if I can really understand who the other person is on the other side of the dialog, I potentially could help them. That's agenda number one for me, I'm probably going to make an introduction to someone else in my network that I know will appreciate them, maybe needs what they have, maybe I'll hear them say that they're stuck with something that they don't fully know or understand yet, but there's someone I know that could be really helpful for them. So connecting those dots between people can become the reason for having that conversation. Then, only then if someone says something that you can help with at that point, it gives you an opportunity to say, "Oh, that's kind of interesting, tell me more about that," and if I don't earn that, then I don't deserve to have that conversation.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture your network?
I think this is one of the big challenges in this space, which is as you're starting to network with more people, how do you do it in an intelligent way so that they are real relationships and it's not you touched a person one time and you never see them again? That really doesn't serve either side. So one of the tools that I found helpful is a CRM called getdex.com. This has become my favorite tool and the one piece of software that I would most hate to give up. Dex is a Rolodex essentially and it will not replace your CRM. So if anyone out there is saying, "Yeah, I got this covered, I've got HubSpot," that won't work because that's not what dex is. Dex does one thing and it does it really well. It tells you who to connect with or who to talk to and when like the follow-up part of it. So as you and I chat, I'll make a few notes in the record of the timeline of our conversation. Then all my folks that I want to stay in touch with are on-timers, they're in buckets. So for this group of people, I want to make sure that I check-in and see what's going on in their world, look at their content, make sure I'm commenting and staying relevant and up to date with them, at least on a monthly basis. For other people, it might be a couple of times a year where I don't want to lose touch, but it's not a business relationship that I need to stay top of mind with either. So I'm just using this tool and before using dex, I really struggled because I was doing this on paper and it just wasn't working. But this tool plugs into LinkedIn plugs into email, and Facebook so I can make my notes right there, as I'm conversing with people. So it's been a great addition.
What advice would you offer business professionals who are looking to grow their network?
I think I'm going to go back and reuse one that I've already shared, but I'm going to emphasize it because I think it's that important. That is to find the awesome in other people first. As entrepreneurs, we are very sensitive to taking care of our people. So if you have a newsletter, if you have a YouTube channel, your network on LinkedIn, wherever your people are where you're actively growing your audience and nurturing those relationships when someone shows up and engages with you, we are very in tune with taking care of those people, it's a great way to get to know folks. So when you show up and you find the awesome in someone else, it's a natural interface to really connect with them. So for example, for a podcaster like you, Lori, the ratings and reviews on podcasts, that is the currency of podcasting, right. So if someone wants to connect with you, the smartest thing they could do is to leave you a five-star review. Then what I would do is I'd take a screenshot and I'd shoot you an email and say, "Lori, I'm really enjoying the podcast, I just left your review, this is what I said." Now you and I are going to have a completely different conversation because of the context of how we first connected so this is the approach that I prefer. The alternative, what we've been all been told for years is to show up and bring value, like give value to people. There's a problem with this and I did this years ago. There was a lawyer who had paid big money to have the back of the Yellow Page book, and I looked at his website and his local listings online. I could see he had a lot of holes in his online marketing, even though he was spending a lot of money on the yellow pages. So I reached out to him thinking that I was doing him a favor, sharing all these mistakes that he made. I thought I was giving him value, he probably thought I was the biggest ass in the world. So I learned by that mistake that even though I thought I was giving value, that's a terrible way to deliver it. So show up, find the awesome first, and delivering value can come later. There's still a lot of substance in that, but it's not the best way to show up on someone's doorstep.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less than or differently with regards to your professional career?
I think my answer on what I'm doing today is different from what I would say if I could go back and talk to my 20-year-old self. If I could go back and talk to my 20-year-old self, I really would have focused on the list building. I just turned 50 so we're talking about a 30 year period of time where the ability to build an audience of people that had a core interest in common and what I didn't understand back then was if you build a big enough group of people, you can monetize it in really interesting ways. I'm a little bit of a Star Wars nerd so when I was 20 years old if someone said you can create a newsletter that is all about the nerdy Star Wars stuff that you're interested in, I think I wouldn't have believed that. I would have questioned how that would become a business. If you look at our world today, it's amazing how all these passionate communities have been built around a topic or a niche that people really care about a lot and once you've gathered the crowd, you can have sponsors, you can directly sell things that that group asked for. There are so many different ways to monetize it in a way that people will love you for and I would have loved to counsel my younger self on that.
Do you have any final word or advice for our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
Nope, I just really appreciate what you're doing to get the information out. I think anyone that hears this and if you're interested in connecting, let's have a real conversation.
Connect with Tobin:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tobin.slaven
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobinslaven/
Website: https://www.tobinslaven.com/
Check out Tobin’s new book: Search “Experts Never Chase” on Amazon
Meet Joel
Joel is the proud author of Formans Financial Facts, a financial management blueprint. His mission is to educate people so that they can manage their personal finances with confidence for life. Over the past 30 years, Joel has worked in corporate America and a variety of financial roles. He started in traditional financial roles in the financial services and baking industries. About 16 years ago, he successfully moved into the consulting world.
Why is it so important to have a personal budget?
Well, a personal budget to me, is really the foundation for anyone's financial management and money management needs. By building a personal budget, you're going to understand where you're spending your money, what you're spending it on, and you're going to make sure that you're bringing home enough money on a monthly basis to not only cover those fixed and variable expenses but to also have money left over to what I like to call pay yourself for savings and investment opportunities. If you don't have a good handle on the budget, and what you have coming in versus coming out, it's going to be really difficult to do those other two.
Why is it important to have a plan for saving money for the things you want and need?
It's really quite simple. Unfortunately, we know money makes the world go round, we can't go in and purchase a new computer with a smile. So what one of the things that I teach in my blueprint is I break it down into percentages for you. 55% is generally for your core bills, your rent, your mortgage, car payments, any loans you have, etc. Then I have 21%, which is a little bit more flexible for wants and needs, for going out to dinner, for entertainment, going to the movies, once the pandemic is behind us. Then the most critical piece of that is the 24%, which is what I call the pay yourself first, which is you break that down to savings and investments. The savings part of that is let's say you want a new couch, or you're looking to get a new car and you want to have a down payment on it. By saving for that in advance and putting money aside, let's say you need a, you know, a $5,000 downpayment? Well, if you all of a sudden just have to come up with $5,000 from somewhere in your financial arsenal, and you didn't plan for it, it might be more difficult. But by putting this money aside incrementally, it makes the buying experience so much easier when you go to buy that car because that $5,000 while you'll feel it, it's less painful because you already have it and you can enjoy the rest of the buying experience.
What are some of the key things to think about when you're setting these financial goals?
There are a lot of different things that come into play. So I like to look at the whole picture. So you're going to be wanting to save up for things that you want, whether it's a down payment on a car, down payment on a house, you're also going to be thinking about retirement, and yes, no matter how young you are, and especially the younger, the better, because time is not always your friend in life. But when it comes to planning for retirement, time is absolutely your friend, the more time you have for that money to grow, the interest to compound, the market values of whatever you invested in to go up, you want to think about that. You also want to think about your children's future, even if you don't have any, and start planning with a 529 plan or something that will get ready that can be used for their future education. So the first thing you would do is make a laundry list of some of the things that I've mentioned, and maybe some other things that you want to do. Then the next thing is you sit down either with a financial adviser, or an accountant and lay out the things I want and the things that I need to save for my life and for my family. How do I get there? What's the plan? What are the steps? What are the vehicles that I'm going to go through, to channel the money to either save and or invest to get to each of those milestones down the road? That's why you have to plan it out because the house and the car are going to come before the kids and then the kids are going to come and then you're going to have college and then the retirement is always there, but it's kind of in the background. You really have to think about it though because like I said, the more time you have the better off you're going to be.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
First of all, I'm an avid fan of networking, always have been always will be. I'm a big fan of it's not what you know, but who you know, and who they know. That is a good segue into how I got onto this podcast with you, Lori. A mutual contact of ours I recently connected with, her name is Grace Chang and I mentioned to her among other things, that one of my goals was to get on a few podcasts like this, and she says, "Oh, I think I can help you, I know two people that have really successful podcast!" So I didn't realize when I first talked to Grace that was going to come up in conversation, let alone lead to this. You just never know when you're talking to someone, and you're sharing your goals and she's sharing her goals and I've introduced her to people where it's gonna lead. So for me, that's very recent, hot off the presses and I'd have to say, even though I have a lot of other great successful stories, I think that's probably the best.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture the relationship that you've created in your network in your community?
For me, there's a couple of things. But for those of you that know who I am, and follow me on LinkedIn, or Facebook or Instagram, one of the things that I instituted at the first week in January, and then the second week of January, I do a financial word of the day, which I've been doing since January 2. Then since January 9, I do videos each day and they're all related to financial tips. Basically, my financial blueprint covers eight financial topics so it's always within the realm of one of those. I know some people prefer to read things, and some people prefer the videos so that's why I'm doing the mix of both. It also gives me a chance to hit two promos on the same day without doing the promo because I'm not always telling you to go to my site and buy this or look at what I have. A lot of times, I don't even mention that. I usually say that or I might have it in the intro written for teeing up the video. But basically, by constantly videoing, I've been told that that makes it more personable, people get to know me a little bit more and feel like we're having a conversation and I'm very comfortable with that. I never thought I'd be doing all these videos, but I'm getting close to my 100th and I just did my 100th word of the day. But the other thing that I do is I'm constantly reaching out to my network and just seeing how they're doing. If there's anything new or if I see that they've accomplished something, and they promoted it somewhere, I'll comment in and I'll try to share that and spread that good fortune for them along the way. So that's kind of the main ways that I do it, showing up and being consistent.
What advice would you offer to business professionals really looking to grow their network?
I would say you have to be active. You have to be active now on as many social media platforms as you can because you're going to reach different people on these different platforms. I mean, one of the things that I'd say about LinkedIn is that I've always used LinkedIn successfully for consulting opportunities, but now I've shifted it as now I'm a financial educator. So I'm using LinkedIn now more this year in 2021 than I have since 2008 when I joined. Another great way is Clubhouse, a new audio platform, and it was originally only for iPhone users at first, now the Android users are on there, so now everybody's on there, which is fantastic. It's a great way to go into rooms, usually, they tell you what it's about and who the guests are going to be and you can get to know people and feel a connection with people so quickly in a short conversation. That would happen organically with emails or messages back and forth, but I've met some great people where we've taken immediate action on doing things because we just connected. Also, any networking opportunity where you can be in person, or where you can actually talk to someone, the zoom calls, a lot of the virtual things, it's so much easier to build rapport when you're having a conversation, and you can cover so much ground so quickly. So I would say put yourself out there. LinkedIn is hugely important, but don't shy away from Clubhouse and other things where you can get more quick hits, and maybe meet more people in a short period of time.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I haven't thought about it often, but occasionally I do and one of the things that I would say is when I was young, and I went through my junior year of college, I really wasn't too happy with it. I wasn't a great student, I was struggling a little bit and I had this burning desire to have my own business. So I dropped out after my junior year, much to everyone's dismay and I tried to pursue my own business for four years. I learned so much, but I would say looking back on it after the first two opportunities didn't work out. After three years, instead of just trying to pursue the dream then, I would have had the wisdom to go on a different plan for now. I ultimately did do that, just a year late. I went back to 49 credits of hell, but in 12 months I got my degree and I have to say it was the best decision I ever made, I was so proud of myself, I did better that year than I did any other. But I would say that over the years since then, there are a few times when I've wanted to do something more entrepreneurial, and I would have done it a little bit sooner. But sometimes you get on a different path for a different reason and last year, the pandemic gave me yet another pause in my career, and my youngest son said, "Dad, you're helping me with my budget, you're helping me with savings, you're helping me with investing, you're helping my siblings, you're helping my friends, you're helping my girlfriend negotiate better rates on loans, Dad, you have all this knowledge, you've been doing this for free, for all these years, helping everyone and everybody's still coming to you, but people my age need this, I'd be lost without you. Some of my friends that don't have access to you are clueless when it comes to money." So sometimes you just go through life, and you get to a point and something gives you time to pause and you're always trying to pass on wisdom to your kids. This was one time one of my sons passed on wisdom to me. Ever since I decided to do this blueprint, I've been happier than I've ever been and the timing of it was great because I actually had the time to delve into it. So I would say be open-minded to when events or pauses happen in your life, and you get a chance to rethink what you're doing, and how you're doing it, and how else you can use your skills to help others.
You've actually got a giveaway for our listeners today. Do you want to talk about that briefly?
As I mentioned earlier, and as you alluded to earlier about my financial blueprint. I cover 8 of what I consider basic concepts or foundational areas, or principles that you really need to master in order to manage your personal finances with confidence. So I created a pamphlet, and I called it 8 Principles of Financial Freedom by Formans Financial Facts. So each page will give you an example of how a personal budget will be important, that's one page. Then there's a basic savings method, which is the second section of my blueprint. From there, you go to basic investment methods, then retirement planning, building your credit and that is really helpful for those people that want to understand more about how their credit score works, and how it helps them, primary loan types, life insurance, and planning for college. So I know there's a lot of other things, but I did a lot of research and I gave this a lot of thought and I think if you can get a good foundational footing on each of these areas which my blueprint walks you through that and reinforces concepts and philosophies and habits, you'll really get a good sense of this. This giveaway is a little snapshot of what the broader blueprint will cover.
Do you have any final words of advice for our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
I would say none of us are on an island by ourselves, and all of us have enjoyed different levels of success and continue to enjoy that. But one of the ways that I found has really helped me to grow, is I try to help as many other people as I can along the way. Also, the people that are helping me like I have a social media team and a brand management team, I like to consistently let them know that I appreciate all their efforts because I couldn't do it by myself. I really do, I am grateful that I've had people believe in me and what I'm doing and have gotten to know me and then I introduce people and then they collaborate or create something great and it's just very rewarding. So I would say always think about how you can serve others and always remember that you're not doing alone, you don't have to be and that's okay. There are a lot of good people out there, a lot of smart people that can give you a lot of great wisdom, and you just never know when that next contact of yours is going to lead to something big for them, or for you.
Connect with Joel
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joel-forman-fff/
Website: https://formansfinancialfacts.com/
Instagram: @formansfinancialfacts
Meet Eric
Eric is the co-founder of Blue C, a California-based brand strategy and creative marketing agency. Since 1998 Eric has been helping companies across both b2b and b2c segments. Eric is a second-generation marketer and actively supports clients’ growth dreams through the Blue C Brand PWR platform and the Six Systems To Success. On a personal basis, Eric spends 16 weekends a year in Baja California and is the co-founder of The California Love Job, which cares for frontline workers.
How important is brand strategy for companies that want to grow?
Well, what's interesting is that our company focuses first and foremost on brand strategy. The platform we have is called Brand Power and the very first step is always about brand strategy, brand messaging, clarity and positioning. It's interesting, because in the last 12 to 18 months, we have had so many more companies come to us and ask us to go through our Brand Power clarity process than ever before. A lot of people think that branding and marketing flow together, but they're almost like polar opposites, or maybe even like the Ying Yang, if you don't do one, you can't do the other. What happens is if you don't have complete clarity on your message, you're not going to be able to do your marketing well. So by going through our process, we're able to uncover everything, create absolute clarity, create massive success for both internal and external, as well as create the next step in our Brand Power process, which is called amplify. The system actually works really well as a roadmap and our first step is clarify, which is the brand strategy, amplify, which is the marketing strategy marketing plan, kind of our roadmap, and then infuse the creative campaign development. Then integrate is the digital marketing and sales strategies, and then engage is all the social media content and content marketing that flows in around the whole campaign. So to answer your question more precisely, how important is brand strategy, is brand strategy is a long game, but it's very, very, very important. You can't do one without the other.
What is the difference between branding and marketing?
I think the easiest way to explain branding is this is what people think about you after you leave your room. The marketing is how are we going to get that message out to the right people at the right place at the right time. So if you break it down really simple like that, that's the best way to think about it. The branding is always about the message. A lot of people are like, "Okay, well, we need our brand developed, let's do our logo," but no, it actually goes deeper into that. So when we go through our process, the brand clarity process, we really get down into the pillars, the tonality, the mission, the values, the words you say, the words you don't say, the visual direction, and keeping a very strong clarity in the message. So with that being said, the branding is that feeling, what they think about you, how everything is cohesive and everything works together, the marketing is how they're going to connect with you to get you to engage and be a fan of that brand.
What's the difference between b2b marketing and b2c marketing?
I think the easiest way to think about it, and I kind of want to take a step back before I go into that is a consumer will spend $100 on something, but a business will spend $1,000 on that same thing. The difference is that the consumer wants to know about the emotional connection of it, they want the emotional buy on it. So you're going to see a lot of marketing really targeted towards the emotional side, how you're going to feel, how you're going to be seen, how you're going to look, how this thing is going to change your life on it. Then on b2b, it's all rational and they're thinking what is it going to do for my company, is it going to save me time or make me more money. What's really interesting is that we have clients that have both b2b products, and the same product is been for b2c. It's really difficult sometimes because you have to change your thinking, and you really have to change how you're communicating when you're going to the consumer market and then all of a sudden, it's like, "Now what we have to do is we have to this campaign for the exact same product for the b2b channels." Knowing your audience, and really knowing what's important for them, and knowing their profile is the first step that we found. And if anyone wants to email me or connect with me on LinkedIn, I will send you our customer profile template, you can just fill it out, and you can have it it's a three-page document that's basically a lifesaver.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
Well, first and foremost, do you remember years ago when networking was sleazy, you're going out there, and you're going to have a chicken lunch and hang out with a bunch of people and it was just like sleazy. It was really interesting because when I really started to understand networking, I felt the complete opposite and I love it. I'm an introvert by nature, but the idea is that being around people, and getting to learn their side of things and their conversations, and you never know where they're going to intersect in your life is most important. So I take the other side to it, networking is the greatest time ever. For those that don't get outside of their comfort zone, they're going to limit their growth potential, their financial opportunities, as well as just their lifelong depth of getting to know new and exciting things. I've networked through the whole pandemic and what's really crazy about the whole thing is I didn't know as networking, I thought it was just doing something to help out. So one of our clients is Wahoos Fish Tacos. They have 60 locations and they're an iconic restaurant in California, and they lost 85% of their business in two days. So let's kind of put this in perspective. For every dollar bill that was handed at the counter, 85% of that was cut in half and thrown in the trash. If you have 60 locations, 85% of that is a terrible thing, you can lose the whole business, as well as every other restaurant losing 85% of their business. But the other thing is that the food kept on coming in from their suppliers. So all their food is provided by suppliers on an ongoing basis on a monthly or yearly contract. So you can't stop the train it's going to come there if you have customers or not, you committed it to it so it's yours. So myself and Wing Lam who is the owner of Wahoos called me up one night. He's very philanthropic and he said, "Hey, I need some help, can you help me deliver some tacos?" I was like, "Okay," so basically, I got my car, and we made 300 tacos because he only had two people at one location, we delivered it to a hospital for the doctors and nurses there. The whole objective is to keep the doctors and nurses fed and keep them staying very positive, not calling in sick, because if you call in sick, then they have to do a freelance doctor or freelance nurse, which is called the traveling nurse. When you get that many people, it gets financially out of hand and then the hospital has to make a decision of having a short staff versus the actual size of the staff. So we did that and then we got a couple of calls from other people who said, "Hey, we can't do events right now do you want to partner up?" So Monster Energy called us and said, "Hey, we've got all this product that for sampling, but we don't have any events now so what are we going to do?" We got Monster Energy on board, a bunch of other major companies came on board and then one of the largest radio stations in Los Angeles came on board and they said, "We want to be a partner on this." So we created this thing called the California Love Drop. Corporate companies started said, "Hey, we really love what you're doing, let us pay for the food, and you just delivered to the hospitals and give us some credit for it." So we're approaching about 300 different drops now, probably about 25,000 meals. The greatest thing is, is that this was like networking in a box, where all these companies started wanting to come out and hang out with us, and on Friday morning on the largest radio station we have five minutes on every hour to talk about what we're doing. So the companies loved to be mentioned on it. So it was kind of like organic networking. So that is actually my favorite story and if anyone's interested in learning more then go to https://californialovedrop.org/ to check it out.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture all these relationships that you're creating?
First and foremost, as soon as I meet with someone, I think about how I can help. I grew up in the restaurant business so I kind of has this mentality of wanting to help people. Each and every aspect is that I don't come from the perspective of well, first and foremost, I'm not a salesperson. I'm always here to help people get what they need, but on the other side, I always want to help them first. So I always connect with them on LinkedIn and say, "Hey, if there's anything I can do, just let me know!" But the other aspect is that I always try to keep them connected to the fun things we're doing. Last week, Blue C does a big thing every year called the Distinguished Gentleman's Ride. It's a motorcycle ride for men's prostate cancer and men's mental health, where it's 900 rides worldwide on the same day with 60,000 people. So I run the Orange County one and we actually sold out the first time in 10 years which was great. It's really cool because all the men and women get dressed up and their Sunday best, the suits the whole thing, we go we do a coastal ride up the coast so everyone gets to see the beach and comes back down. Then we have the triumph, we have Wahoos fish tacos and at the final stage, we had barber stations there. So as soon as the guys and girls got off, the motorcycles and took their helmets off, they actually got their hair done. The festivities were only supposed to last till four o'clock and actually lasted till six, we had a great time. But I also invite my clients to go and then all of a sudden, my clients want to be involved in it, too. So we actually integrate them into it. So I think of it as like the party that keeps on going.
What advice would you offer that business professional is really looking to grow their network?
Consistency. You can go and do 10 different networking things and you're going to burn yourself out. You're going to sit in the middle of the night, and you're going, "I went to 10 different things and I didn't get one piece, one project, one relationship, nothing." Instead of doing 10 different things, focus on three that you're really passionate about, that are like-minded, that you have a passion yourself for, and focus on that and be consistent. Don't just go once, and that's it, don't go twice and that's it, continue to go. The other thing I always encourage is don't be the person at the bar. Dedicate your time and work at the front desk. The best part is at the front desk, you meet everyone and they will remember you. If you're the person behind the bar, or the person at the bar holding the bar up is you've probably met three people and that person is probably a life insurance salesperson, a mortgage broker, and a dog groomer. On the other hand, if you have 100 people that came through, you're going to know every single person afterward, you can actually go up to that person and say "Hey, I would love to learn a little more about your industry." So I always say it's about consistency, showing up, and being active.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I wish I would have started networking in my 20s. But I also wish I had built more strong relationships between my 20s and 30s. I was a working guy back then, and the thing about it is that if you work for a company right now if you're in your 20s and 30s, is those are your growing years. Those aren't your earning years, those are growing years, you're just figuring stuff out. The thing about it is that from that you get mentors, and mentors are great people that you connect with that are ongoing, and you have to have those between 20 and 30. Otherwise, the 30 to 40 years are your earning years where when you're actually earning money. Then, 40 to 50 is when you actually are earning more money, but also between 40 and 50 are your giving back years, you have to pay it forward. So the circle of life starts is the 20 to 30 but ends at 40 to 50+ on a giving back. So I didn't realize that and one of the things that really made me realize this is I met this guy when I was in my 30s. I was invited to it was actually the foundation room in Las Vegas and it was for the SEMA Show. This guy was this Las Vegas guy and he goes by the name of The Godfather of Las Vegas, just a real strong enigma of a person. He was so connected in Las Vegas on the business side, everything connected with him in one way or another. Everyone that was moving around in Las Vegas from a job standpoint was connected to him. So I looked at him and said, "Wow, you know everyone," and he goes, "Yeah," and he actually was the one that introduced me to LinkedIn many years ago. I think he was my LinkedIn contact number one. So going back is that's one of those things that changed me because in the early era of Blue C we got business and clients would come to us, but those clients eventually go away. Once a client, not always a client, so you always have to refill the system and help more and more people and the only way to do it is to meet new people. What I would say is even if you're an introvert make sure you work at that guest table, make sure you go up to the people that are putting the event together, and ask how you can help. They'll give you something to do and you will also become better.
Connect with Eric
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericmorleybluec/
Email: emorley@bluecusa.com
Website: https://bluecusa.com/
Meet Katie
Katie is a writer specializing in customer case studies. She has written for technology and education companies and coaches of all types. In her free time, Katie enjoys baking, reading fantasy novels, and going on road trips with her husband. Katie lives in Wisconsin and thinks cheese should be in its own food group.
Can you share with our listeners what a customer case study is?
A customer case study is the success story of how a client or customer has gotten results through a product or service. So basically it takes your happy customer from how they found you, why they decided to work with you, through that experience of working with you, and down to the results that they got when they had finished working with you.
What are some characteristics of an ideal customer to feature in a case study?
So customers that make a great fit have likely told you that they are happy with the work that you both did together. They may have recommended you to others, which is great because a customer case study is kind of a recommendation, so to speak so if they've already been recommending you to other people, they'll be able to give more ideal quotes for the case study. Also, if your customer has told you about a result that was particularly impactful, that is also a great qualifier for a customer who might make a great case study, because having a great story and pairing that with enticing data, or even really great emotional benefit, is definitely a way to create a piece that shows your prospects and your leads what they will get if they work with you.
So you have mentioned that there are four sections to a case study. What are examples of the questions that I could ask my customers to make sure that I have information in each of those four parts?
So the first part is the introduction. You'll want to ask your customer if they are a business owner, where is their business located, what types of work do they do with their clients and customers, how long have they been in business, and then if they're a consumer, then you'll ask them things like, where do they live, how old they are if they're comfortable sharing that. Sometimes people's hobbies and interests can be good to know about just to make it a little more personable. So those are the basic introduction questions. Then we get into the challenge part and the challenge part talks about what challenges they were looking to solve. So I usually ask, what was the challenge you were looking to solve, why did you choose to have someone else help you solve your problem, how are you solving your problem before you found the product or service that ended up being the solution, and then we get into your business because we want to have a little information about you and your business and why they chose you. That can come from asking them, how did you learn about the solutions, why did you specifically choose to work with my company, if you're doing the interview yourself. Then, of course, the most impactful section is the results. So a few questions that I usually ask are, what are some qualitative results that you've experienced? So that gets really into those emotions, those feelings. What are some quantitative results that you've experienced as a result of the work? Which gets into the numbers? Then another question I love is, tell me about a time when the work we did made a real difference because that can open up a whole story of, "Oh, I was just spending all my time answering emails, but with the autoresponder that your company provides, I now have a ton of time to do the work that I love, and I'm really happy." So that question can be really open-ended and give the readers an idea of how the results can impact them on a day-to-day basis. Then I always ask, why would you recommend this business to others? That is a great question, because sometimes they'll even say, "Well, yeah it has, I have sent referrals, or I have recommended this business to other people and here's why." It kind of, it kind of touches on the warmth that a person can experience in your customer service, or in the way that you solve problems, or just in your approach in general, that doesn't always get captured in the results. So those are the four sections and those are some questions that can help you make sure that you're covering your bases when you're creating your case studies.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
I think one of my favorites might have been when I attended a networking event online in 2020. It was just a really fun and really interactive networking event. They asked questions like if your business were an emoji, put the emoji that you would represent your business into the chat and that was just super fun because it really highlighted each of our businesses in a really unique way. It also brought up some important aspects of our branding and messaging that doesn’t always come out in your own logo or in your own storytelling. Mine was a megaphone emoji, by the way, because I see my business as a business that champions and cheers on the success of other businesses. So it was just fun to connect with people from that networking event afterward and have one-on-ones with them and have that insight into just the fun, creative businesses that they are.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture your network and your community?
I love LinkedIn. It is the place where a lot of my ideal customers are hanging out and it's just a little more focused than some of the other social platforms. So I post on LinkedIn weekly and I'm also a big proponent of sending messages to people. So asking them to connect, asking them to hop on a quick call so we can get to know each other, and then even if I have conversations with people that really stand out, and I really want to reconnect with them later, there are a couple of people that I've connected with almost monthly just to shoot the breeze and talk shop, especially other writers, and other people in marketing. I think it's really fun to share ideas and just talk with each other about how business and life are going. It's great to build relationships and really get to know people as people.
What advice would you offer the business professional who's really looking to grow their network?
I would say connect. There are people in the world who are connectors. They usually will tell you that they are a connector and if you are fortunate to have a connector in your network, definitely leverage that relationship. Also set goals for what you can accomplish and by that, I mean plan to reach out to a certain number of people per day, and plan to send a certain number of connection requests each week. Just make it a part of your everyday business routine and business practices and that will help your network grow. Also, I've had success joining groups of people who are either in my target audience or who are in my field, parts of marketing groups, and writing groups, and people will connect to you in a group as well. That's great because if you're looking at the members of a group, you can send messages to them even if you're not connected on a first-level connection basis, and it doesn't count against your searches if you're connecting with people from groups which is helpful.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I would tell myself not to be afraid to freelance and do writing jobs for people. It took me a long time to think of myself as a freelancer and I think part of that had to do with just the way the internet developed and the way that freelancing became a little more well known in the area where I was living at the time as I grew a little older. But yeah, I would tell myself to just not be afraid to reach out to people and network with people. I don't think I understood the value of networking quite as much as I do now so don't be afraid is my main message for my 20-year-old self.
Let's talk about the six degrees of separation. Who would be the one person that you'd love to connect with and do you think you could do it within the sixth degree?
Probably Tim Ferriss, because he's been a huge inspiration to me. I read one of his books, and I had so much energy, I didn't know what to do with it that I like went skydiving with a friend because I just had to get the energy out. And six degrees of separation, I mean, one of my co-workers moved to Austin, Texas. I know Tim either does live or used to live in Austin. So maybe one of my co-worker’s friends knows him. I'm sure somewhere along the line it'll happen because we probably do know people who know people, especially since I've been floating a little more in entrepreneurial spaces these days.
Do you have any final words of advice for our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
As you're reaching out to people, and as you are connecting with people, you're going to connect with some people that you will just learn about and get to know and that's great. You're going to connect with some people who have something to offer you and they will help you. You're also going to connect with some people who are looking for your help. That could be they're looking to connect with someone that you know, that could also be they're looking for a service that you provide, or they might even be a job seeker who's looking for encouragement, and you can share your story. I have found it to be such a joy to help people when I get the opportunity. So I would encourage you to keep a special watch out for the ways that you can help others as you're growing your network.
Connect with Katie:
Meet Melinda
Melinda is a sales coach who specializes in helping female entrepreneurs sell to corporations. Not only does she coach how to sell, she still practices her own sales. Melinda works as a sales executive and holds an impressive track record of over $40 million. With 20 plus years of b2b sales experience, she is determined to help other women expand their impact by selling to big companies. She also leads a Facebook community of amazing women trailblazers called B2B Women Making Big Sales.
How do small business owners sell to big clients?
Yeah, I think this is usually the first question people have. When we are small entrepreneurs, and we look at other people going after or working with more established businesses and corporations, and a lot of times they look at fellow entrepreneurs that are able to have an impressive client list. A lot of people often ask me, how can I sell to corporations, and I personally think in today's world, the world has gone through so many changes and companies are actually becoming more flexible in terms of looking for consultants or companies or business owners to work with me. So I've worked with a lot of women that told me the same thing. Sometimes companies are looking for employees, but because of different reasons, they started looking for consultants to help them with different services or different solutions. But the first thing that when people are thinking about starting to go after corporations, the first thing they often have is that, "How do I get started? Is it even possible?" I like to say the first step when it comes to going after corporate clients is all about the target. If you want to stand out and compete with other people, especially more established competitors, the first thing you need to ask yourself is, can I be more specific or targeted in terms of my marketing? Can I find an industry that is highly specialized, and in terms of what I do, can I be considered as a specialist in terms of my service offering. Your positioning statements should be the first thing you stand out for because business prospects or business clients are super busy, they often do not have a lot of time to listen to a long speech or long elevator speech. So to have a very clear understanding of how you stand out how you can be a specialist should really be the first thing that you want to focus on. But if you are able to stand out within a very specialized industry or something you offer, I personally think that there is a great opportunity for you out there to go after corporate clients because you are going to tell them, "Hey, I'm going to stand out from my more established competitors because working with me, you get to have direct access to me, you are able to work with me rather than some other teams or other companies where they have a lot of turnovers." I think that for small entrepreneurs when it comes to going after corporate clients, our customer service and personalized approach is definitely a way to that will appeal to a lot of corporate clients.
How do small business owners stand out when they're selling to these big clients?
Yeah, definitely niching down. I often tell people that in terms of sales perspective, the first thing, industry can be a really great way for you to stand out from your competitors. It's one thing to say, "Hey, I'm a marketing consultant," or you can say, "I'm a marketing consultant that really specializes in sporting industries," and that instantly helps you stand out from your competitors. So to really find an industry that you're passionate about, and one thing you can look at is to look at your past experience. A lot of women when they start out probably already have years of experience, either in the corporate world or from their education, or where they're located. So you can also always look back to your professional experience, and try to ask yourself, in terms of experience I have, what industry can I specialize in, and that is a great way to really stay focused, to stand out. Similar to a lot of marketing conversations people might have with you, it's niching down. But I think by niching down for corporate clients, when you're having a sales conversation, it becomes really easy for you to understand and it also allows you to have a better impact in terms of your sales activities. Think about this, if you want to go after companies in the sports industry, it's one thing to go after one or two prospects in the industry, but if you decide to niche down and focus on this industry, then you can easily go after all the companies within that industry, and continue to have a sales conversation that's very industry-specific, rather than going after a broad range of market. If you have a sales communication style message that is more broad-based, by niching down to a specific industry, then you can go after one industry at a time. Every time you go after one industry, you're more likely to stand out because you're focusing and you're being the specialist of the specific industry. So that's definitely the first thing that you need to think about and a lot of women I support within our Executive Lounge Program, I also ask them to really have a very clear understanding of their competitors. By knowing the bigger competitors, you can also understand how you're going to be different from those competitors and that should be the next step in terms of helping you stand out from the competitors.
How do you manage your sales process as a busy entrepreneur?
That's led to a little bit of that industry-specific sales strategy. The way I help female entrepreneurs sell, the way we design it, it all happens for a reason. First of all, by niching down, you are less likely to feel overwhelmed. By focusing on one industry you are going to start to connect with people that tend to know each other. I've been selling for 20 years, I've sold in different industries around the world, but every time I get into one industry here's what I noticed: I noticed that everybody tends to know each other. So if you are able to niche down and focus on specific industries, a small number of industries, and the more you network with people, you're going to notice that people tend to know each other. A lot of people in the marketing positions within the sports industry, I bet you that most people know each other, and people tend to go from one business to the other. So the more you network, and the more you connect with people, you are going to become the insider of that industry and that is how you stop being overwhelmed. If you try to go after a lot of people, one of the biggest mistakes I hear entrepreneurs face is that they will go after a broad range of industries, and then they end up having hundreds of prospects on their CRM client management systems and they will have hundreds of prospects and not knowing how to follow up, or people will be telling me, "Oh, my God, LinkedIn, I'm getting so many messages, and I'm having trouble managing them," but if you're able to really prioritize and know who you want to go after and make sure that you connect with people that are really going to give you those 5-6 figure sales, that is the first step to avoid feeling overwhelmed, and you've definitely got to have a very clear sales system. I teach a five-step sales system, and we focus on one step at a time. Always asking yourself, where am I in this step within this sales success plan, where am I, and what should I do to just simply move forward? So that's definitely the second one, and once you have that system down, I encourage you to probably outsource part of your sales success plan to somebody else and that is when you can start thriving and start to feel less overwhelmed. But definitely, it's a step-by-step process. It's about niching down because the more you can know, within one specific industry, you are going to be known and people are going to start talking about you and refer your clients. That is the reason why I'm able to do what I do while still being a director of sales for another company. I had to start building my relationship and connect with a lot of people, but now I am known and while I'm known, I'm able to offer time to female entrepreneurs as support to go in after big clients. So it is possible to do that.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
I'm just looking at the most recent thing. I am in sporting goods, I represent another company and we go after large sports brand. So one thing that came to mind is that these days I'm going after the boxing industry. I've been attending trade shows for a long time and every year I will be going to trade shows. A lot of times when you go in after trade shows you meet different kinds of people and recently, I was just going after this boxing industry and I remember two years ago somebody briefly introduced me to the top r&d person, within a boxing company a really important brand. That is really something that really resonated with me in terms of networking stories you were talking about is that you really don't know the kind of people you're going to connect with. But two years ago, when I bumped into the person, and we had a common connection, I call it super connectors and the person introduced me to this top r&d person of this boxing brand. This just reminded me that whenever we do networking, we always got to think long-term. Two years ago I met this person, and today this person would be my ideal client and I'm super grateful. If I were to try to reach out to this person on LinkedIn, and try to connect with this person, first of all, this person doesn't even have a LinkedIn profile. It would have taken me so much longer to try to track down this person and let alone getting a meeting or a face-to-face meeting with this person. But just by two years ago, being able to network with people, especially industry insiders, people that are hanging out in the industry within the industries, I was able to get a business card of my ideal client. Two years later I'm super grateful to be able to have his business card, and I've kept it and that would have saved me so much trouble tried to reach out to or figure out what that person is. Again, back to if you have a good right target, and if your target is specific enough, you really are going to notice that the more you network, the more you meet people, everybody knows each other. That also goes to your reputation because you've got to have a great reputation to make sure that people are going to talk about you positively. But that turned out to be a great opportunity for me to meet my ideal clients two years later. You just never know where your business is going to take you out who might end up benefiting, or what networking event might end up being super beneficial.
As you've met people from all over how do you best stay in front of our best nurture these relationships that you're creating?
I think, first of all, you've got to have a very simple to implement client relationship system. It doesn't have to be fancy, a lot of people like to use HubSpot, I like to keep my sales on a client management system. Also making sure that you prioritize those people that are important to your target industry. I talked within my group, I talk to the women I support a lot about the super connectors to really recognize that a small group of people could provide the most impact on your sales. So when you're networking with people, I think the first thing to really keep in mind and avoid feeling overwhelmed is to prioritize the most important connections you want to keep in touch with and have a simple system. Some ladies in my group use something as simple as Excel but have simple systems so that you stay focused when it's time to do your sales s you don't have hundreds of prospects that you need to follow up. Focus on your most important prospects and focus on nurturing relationships with them. I think staying focused is also another very important thing for busy entrepreneurs. Let's face it, we have so many things to do, I support mostly female entrepreneurs and I always tell the ladies, we don't just have to sell, we have to manage our clients, manage our people, some of us are moms, daughters, friends, we have so many things to manage. So keep your system as simple as possible. Don't overcomplicate it and stay focused.
What advice would you offer to the business professional who is really looking to grow their network?
I often talk about the super connectors. Super connectors are specifically designed for people who are going after 5-6 figure decision-makers like businesses and corporations. A lot of times, when you try to reach out to decision-makers, many of them don't hang out on LinkedIn. I think that is a lot of challenges entrepreneurs or professionals face is that they'll be posting a lot on LinkedIn, but their content is only consumed by smaller professionals, but most decision-makers often are not consuming content on LinkedIn, or sometimes they don't even have LinkedIn messages. So reaching out to super connectors, and try to develop opportunities for business referrals is another opportunity or another sales strategy I often share with my fellow entrepreneurs or women I support. But basically, super connectors are the people that would be connected to your decision-makers, but that is also open to networking opportunities. One thing when it comes to superconductors that you want to keep in mind is there are a lot of different people that might be able to give you business referral opportunities, look for those super connectors because these people could potentially get your foot in the door with your business decision-makers, and be conscious and spend time to nurture those relationships. I often joke about this, but sometimes I'm nicer to my super connectors than my actual prospective clients. But these are the people that first of all, have a huge amount of industry knowledge that you probably couldn't get by googling or by talking to other people. So these people, have been in the industry for a long time, and they could probably share a lot of information and knowledge with you. These are the people you're able to create win-win relationships with, these are the people that could refer you clients and give you that business introduction. Oftentimes, a lot of professionals and entrepreneurs, all know that business introduction is the most powerful way to get the attention of decision-makers or corporate clients. So yes, when you're building your network, look for those that are able to introduce you to your ideal clients.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I would say focus on the next best step. So I often talked about how I've got a success plan and these are the five steps to getting more corporate clients. But in terms of day-to-day, I would encourage myself to focus on the next best step and really just focus on making that progress. I am a very impatient person, I'm going to be very frank about it. I'm always trying to do better go after different things over the years, I've gone to different markets. But looking back, I would tell myself don't be so impatient, but just focus on the next best step, what is the next best step I should focus on, and enjoy the process. I am proud to say that even though I've been selling for 20 years, and I've done 1000s of cold calls, and I also like to joke about this, frankly, I probably been rejected more than most people I know. But I have to say, I've really enjoyed this process and I continue to love being an entrepreneur. There have been ups and downs, but if I were to talk to myself, 20 years ago, I'd say enjoy the ride, focus on your next best step and just focus on doing it with more joy and more purpose, and enjoy the ride because I always thought I'd be so happy if I made it or if I closed this deal. Turned out that I did close those deals, but I continued to want to grow and I continued to want to go after the next big plan. So it doesn't stop, this whole process never stops and it's more about the journey. Seriously, your journey is your destination, the more I've been in sales and as an entrepreneur, the more I appreciate what they're saying. So just have fun and enjoy whatever you're doing every single day and stay focused on your next best job and continue to grow and appreciate people we know every single day. I know we've talked so much about sports, and I love the fact that I've got somebody to talk about hockey with so enjoy the people you know and have fun.
What final word of advice you have to offer our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
I think the most important thing that I would like to share with everybody listening when is when somebody is in front of you, I would say listen, pay close attention and just focus on listening. So many people come to me and say, "Hey, what is the step-by-step script to closing sales?" While I do have lots of sales scripts and sales templates, I always like to remind people when it comes to sales or even any relationship you're trying to build in your business world, it's about the person in front of you. While there are still those templates, those scripts, we will often consume different content about the strategies and a step-by-step process when you are in front of anybody, just listen closely and ask yourself, how do I create a win-win relationship with this person? How can I support the person? How can I help the person? Always be helpful, and being helpful is the best way to build a relationship because a lot of times, we don't know what might happen. As I said, two years ago I had a simple networking opportunity, and boom, two years later, this person now is my ideal client. I would say focus on the person in front of you, always be helpful, and create win-win situations. The more creativity you've got, the better you are at creating win-win relationships, and the more likely you're going to build that powerful network. The essence of a powerful network, or even closing sales is all about having a win-win relationship where the person knows that if he or she works with you, there is going to be a win-win relationship. That, in essence, is the foundation of any successful sales relationship or business relationship. So yeah, I would say just focus on listening to the person and then genuinely create a win-win relationship, and be creative in terms of how can I support this person and if you're able to help this person, then this person is going to be very happy to refer your clients to give you a business or share knowledge with you. So always be helpful. I think Dale Carnegie once said, "If you're able to help that person, the person in front of you, then you can achieve anything." I'm paraphrasing it, but I really believe that for me, I think that's part of the reason why every time I do networking events or when I'm in front of prospective clients, I'm able to have a pretty good closing rate because of that sincere desire to really want to help people and I'm always trying to find ways to support and help people.
Connect with Melinda
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melinda-chen-women-making-big-sales/
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Meet Mike
Mike graduated in 2015 from William Paterson University, where he studied New and Digital Marketing Methods. During his senior year, he accepted an internship at an advertising agency that specialized in marketing for manufacturing and logistics companies. This is where he developed his passion for manufacturing that ultimately led him to the New Jersey Manufacturing Extensions Program where he can actively make a difference and support the industry.
Why are you advocating so vigorously for the manufacturing industry?
It kind of goes off of the fact that it's been stigmatized. Manufacturing, when people think about it, they think the dark, dirty, dangerous facilities in the Henry Ford videos of the assembly line where right now it's so beyond that image, where it without talking about advocating for it, students, young adults won't know that the industry average salary in New Jersey is over $94,000 a year. That impact on the nation of high-paying jobs, the impact to the GDP of the nation itself is just too important to forget about or let dwindle. So those factors really are the sole reason why people need to speak up for manufacturing and get that underappreciated opportunity in the forefront, where there's so much opportunity, there's so much value for the workers, the communities, the states, the nation. Without advocating for it, it's just gonna get forgotten because when I was in school, I was told that all manufacturing went overseas. So I didn't look at the industry and I think that was a miss. But glad I made it to where I can actually talk about it and engage with students and engage with the local communities to make sure people know about the opportunities.
How can manufacturers ensure the success of their business and the industry as a whole here in the US?
It goes back to advocacy. Stay engaged with the local community, and really the local government, because, in New Jersey, the legislature thought that all manufacturing moved. They're lawyers, they're business people and professional services, they're not necessarily manufacturers, so they didn't know the industry existed, especially to the extent it does, where New Jersey has over 11,000 manufacturing and stem firms. So if manufacturers get engaged, speak up and come together at events, you have an opportunity to convince or at least showcase the value of the industry to let the local government know where they can create legislation and bills, and laws to support the industry. What you put in is what you get out of it. If you're looking internally, you can look forward and really take into consideration of continuous improvement mindset. That continuous improvement mindset could be that advocacy push, that engagement, always trying to improve how you engage with your local community or your production line. How can you advance yourself to really kind of drive your own business forward in a way? It's not all new tech, but there is a lot of new tech involved too so don't be turned away by buzzwords where the buzzwords are really, at least pieces of stuff you can implement today. Systems, automation processes, robotics that you can implement today. Lastly, never, never, ever be too busy to approve. That's my biggest thing. If you're too busy to improve, you're just going to keep on taking steps backward. It's not going to stay the same, you're not going to continue that growth. You're always going to have to improve and find that time to take those steps forward.
Can the manufacturing industry benefit from Digital networking tools to help promote themselves in the industry?
It doesn't necessarily have to be that much of a shift off of improving your business or improving your standing within the state in terms of an industry because digital tools are all a different way that you can kind of get the word out there and advocate for yourself, find and connect with thought leaders who might have some insight of how you can find continuous improvement for yourself in business. So you can look inwards, and again, look towards the community, look towards the government and figure out different ways that you can promote yourself as a thought leader or connect with people that are thought leaders in the industry to learn from speak up about. Also, USA manufacturing hour on Twitter is a great chat, #USAMFGHOUR. It happens every Thursday, it's a big community of manufacturers that come together, they all talk on Twitter answered questions on a specific topic and it's just a great networking opportunity. You can use these digital tools like Twitter, or even if you want to look at automation, for continuous improvement, use these digital tools to really bolster your business, bolster your brand, bolster your image, and get the most out of what these technologies can offer. It doesn't just have to be kind of a superficial thing, it really could be a tool to be used to improve your manufacturing operation as a whole.
Can you share with us one of your most successful or favorite networking stories that you've had?
It goes back to the USA Manufacturing Hour and maybe it's not my most successful, but it's a great kind of case study for how networking can kind of evolve. So we were doing one of these Twitter chats, which evolved into a zoom mixer, and everyone's going around the zoom call introducing themselves and I was kind of just writing names down that resonated with me. The conversations were great, the breakout sessions were great, but one name and one person and one company in there really stood out. They seem familiar so I reached out and direct messaged them in the zoom chat and as I hit send, they hit send and we connected. We had a meeting after the zoom chat and we're talking both in manufacturing marketing spaces, different mediums. I'm copy communications, they were digital and photography and video. We were just talking and we realized we ended up knowing the same people, actually family friends from when we were children. So how weird that is, and how funny that is in and of itself is just an interesting story of how connections are made. But it actually turned into a pretty good friendship and because we are all in that same networking circle, we've actually been able to create this great professional relationship where we share ideas, share contacts, and it's astonishing how many of the same people we knew, or how many people that I've been engaged with, that they've been trying to get in touch with, and vice versa. So we really became this great little team of just friends that are in the same industry, after the same kind of work, and have been able to bounce ideas back and forth and really grow our network together. So because of that, it really helped expand our reach. We've had actually, national news networks reach out to us because of the engagement that we've been able to do and the PR that we've been able to put out through these networking events. So it really goes to show that a small coincidence of how it took an hour of my time today to get on that mixer to really kind of expand the reach in a big, big way.
As you continue to meet new people and expand and grow your community, how do you stay in front of them and best nurture these relationships?
I love to do reminders on my Outlook calendar. Sometimes I'll just put a, "Hey, let's just throw a time on the calendar in the next quarter," we'll connect we'll touch base, we'll shoot an email back and forth to see if there's a reason to get on a call. It really is just constant maintenance. That's a challenging part of any relationship, right? That nurturing, staying engaged, but the digital tools that we have are just fantastic. We have the Outlook calendar, we have LinkedIn, we have Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, it's easy to keep on sharing content. You know what? When they pop up on my newsfeed, and I haven't spoken to them in a while, I'm gonna shoot him a text to see if everything's good has business. But also creating opportunities to re-engage. We have Manufacturing Matters, our quarterly magazine that takes contributors, advertising opportunities, and it's great. Every quarter there's new reasons to reach out to new contacts that we've made over the quarter, over the year, over the decade, and reach out say, "Hey, do you want to contribute an article? How's everything going?" So it's about creating your own reasons to reach out, opportunities, content that is mutually beneficial, has been the most beneficial, and of course, utilizing those digital tools that we have at our fingertips.
What advice would you offer the business professionals looking to grow their network?
Get out there, talk to Lori, get connected with the local communities and also your social communities? When I first started going to Manufacturer Hour, I said to myself, "There's no way there's going to be a Twitter following per manufacturer." Not only was I wrong, there already was, but getting engaged and getting actively engaged in it helped it grow and it just snowballs. You'd be so surprised how many places there are for niche industries. So just going out and doing a quick Google search, a quick networking event. Just go out there and talk to people, that's really everything. Whether it's on Twitter, whether it's on LinkedIn, stay consistent with it and really educate yourself so when you have those meetings, you have those conversations where you can provide value and then they can provide value back. So it's a two-way street there.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
That's a good question. Probably fewer video games and TV. More industry publications and case studies. Education is everything and staying plugged in with the industry is everything. I was lucky enough to start my career in this specific space at 22 so that's really where I kind of dove in and started learning about the industry and reading all those articles. I would also tell myself to take a few more English classes and writing classes to hone that in and even more so because right now, content is always king, whether it's video, audio, or written! So any production courses that you can use to produce your own content, whether it's an article on LinkedIn, a quick little video that you're going to shoot and share to your network. Learning the industry, I would put that number one, and then two, anything that can help you my 20-year-old self produced better, more consistent content.
We've all heard of the six degrees of separation. Who would be the one person that you'd love to connect with and do you think you can do it within the sixth degree?
I know exactly who! Jim Womack, no relation by the way. They call him the godfather of Lean Manufacturing which is a methodology that helps cut out waste in a production operation. When I was learning about the industry reading about Lean, it's a great topic for manufacturers because it's a great way to do more with fewer people and fewer resources. The name Womack kept on popping up, my own last name, and I was so confused and then Jim Womack ended up being the person that really kind of brought Lean to the forefront in America from Japan. So I know Harry Moser actually owns a house right next to him so I think I can get him.
Connect with Mike
Website: http://www.njmep.org/
Email: mwomack@njmep.org
Meet Jeff
Jeff is a life architect, owner of Creative Web Studios, and mentor to young entrepreneurs. Many people will tell you where to go, what to do and how to live, but there's a higher path and calling inside of you that only you can unearth. It's time to stop living by other people's scripts and expectations for your life and have your own awakening.
So let's talk about your marketing agency. How did you get started?
Sure. So I followed up a pretty typical entrepreneurial dream. If you're like me, you go to school, perhaps your parents tell you to go to college, or they want to push you to get some stable jobs somewhere. So I did all that I had a good run, I went to the University of North Florida, got my computer science degree, and quickly here in Jacksonville, Florida launched out into corporate working at a large municipality, so electric, water, wastewater, and there are about 2000 people there. I enjoyed it and had a pension plan to work there for 32 years get 80% of your salary for life. I rose to the top there in leadership and got an interim director position and I remember I had this epiphany one day I was in this old civil service looking wood panel building well maintained, but from like the 60s, and I just looked across the table and this awesome colleague, Richard was there. He was about seven years out from retirement, and he just made a marginal amount of money more than me. I was just like, dude, I gotta do this for like 25 more years, day after day, you know, do this 45-minute commute and I just realized it wasn't for me. So I had a computer science degree, I minored in graphic design so I had all this creativity. At that time, in 2005, websites were really starting to pop and they were kind of hard to build. So I started moonlighting on the side, and I hatched this little six-month plan in 2005 where I said I'll just give it a go for a year and if it works out great, and if it doesn't, I'll just hop back into corporate so boom, that independence, autonomy, that entrepreneurial dream, that's how I founded the agency back in 2005.
How did you set it up so that the business is running without your day-to-day involvement?
Yeah, so over time, and it's taken a while I just slowly fired myself from positions and for a few reasons. Some stuff I was never good at, I was pretty sloppy at the invoicing and collecting. Obviously, I ultimately did it, but you can really get that stuff on a machine and I'll have problems there. So that was an example of something as soon as I could get like the CPA help or like the accounts receivable help I did, but then other things just logically made sense. So I was going out on my own, and I sold five websites, and say, a site at the time took me 40 hours to code. Well, that's 200 hours just for the coding part of the site. So at that point, I really couldn't go in on any more business so I just saw certain stuff I had mastered and I was good at, it was time for someone else to do it. So slowly but surely I started to outsource stuff. Coding is pretty technical so you can outsource it and not have to worry about the language barrier. Then finally, I got to the point today where I love selling but different people do an amazing job at it so when leads come in, they do it. So I just slowly fired myself and changed my position and got to go into more of a leadership role, like giving back and helping others and doing some mentoring. So that's been the progression, fire yourself from things that you've mastered, like give someone else the opportunity and things that you're never good at, get those off your plate as soon as possible.
What are the biggest marketing mistakes that you see small businesses making?
What I find is business owners don't take into account everything that goes into their online presence. So a lot of times we might focus on redesigning the site, or we might be like, I want to show up for spine pain relief doctor so we'll launch a Google AdWords campaign and focus just on that. All those things are going to be great, the website should be up to par, Google text ads, Google AdWords can be a good route to go. But a lot of times, the practice owner doesn't take into account all the various ways that their practice may be found. Let's just say Jacksonville, Jackspinepain.com. Well, as a prospective patient, or someone doing research having been referred to them, I'm most likely not going to type in that domain name. So I'm going to Google like Jacksonville spine and pain center, maybe some variant of the doctor's name, and then that Google search results page is going to return and that's where it gets interesting. There are the maps listings, and there might be multiple locations for a bigger Medical Center and there are the reviews there, there are health grades where the doctors are listed, there are social media that comes up for them. So all these are potential avenues for your customers to find you and I find a lot of times businesses, you know, they'll really focus on trying to hit a home run with one area and not take into account the whole journey in having each of those pieces at least buttoned up or where to some degree. For doctors like reviews are super important and a lot of times in spine pain, perhaps it's a more elderly population so useability on the site. That's kind of how we like to guide people, take a comprehensive look at their online presence because a lot of times they think, "Oh, we're just gonna start posting on social it's gonna fix everything," or, "Oh, we just need to get some better reviews and we're don," and it doesn't work like that, no marketing works like that frankly.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
For sure, and it's actually going on right now. So last fall I started guesting on podcasts. I had some time to give back and talk about entrepreneurship, mentoring, marketing. So randomly I stumbled in this community and they're at podmax.co and they hosted this a virtual all-day event and as part of attending, you get to guest on three podcasts. So I find that the podcasting community, even what we're doing right now is really open-minded. Everybody's out to help each other, it's not competitive. You and I both run digital agencies but the chances of us stumbling on the same client and like pitching to the same people is slim to none. So I find that being a guest on a podcast, or in our case, we started our own and we are 20 episodes in right now, it's just been a wonderful way to connect with people, have conversations that we're already having kind of like you and I would talk about this if we weren't on a podcast. But being on a podcast really forces us to say it in a way that would be useful to the masses and be useful to your audience here. So I love podcasts for networking, I've gotten the most value out of that. I put one-second one on there, with the pandemic and people being so comfortable on zoom, having those virtual ones to ones has been really cool. People at times have been isolated, or you've always gone to like some physical conference and all the rigor more doing that and I find that getting a nice home office setup and getting the lighting good and virtual coffees have been really fun. So those are two things I've been knocking out a lot during the last six months and really meeting some cool people.
How do you stay in front of and best nurture these relationships?
So that's something we're figuring out now. Previously, I wasn't active on social media and didn't really have a reason to be. At the time, when I first put out that message on mentoring out there, I realized the power of social media. That's so funny, but I didn't have any need to build a personal brand or do anything like that and as part of this experience I did launch my own website and own brand. I really honed in on what I was about with entrepreneurship, with marketing with mentoring. Out of that I, you know, got on social and for me, I found that Facebook and LinkedIn have been awesome. So as I've guessed it on these podcasts, many times the guest or the host will produce a little video snippet, take out a high point, do a bunch of tagging and when we have guests on there, we do the same. So we'll get this little video snippet going, that pulls out the high point of their interview, tagged them up mentioned their thing that's going on, and a lot of times, they'll be shared on that network. So it's been really cool as we've met various guests, other marketing agency owners, ours is about growing your business. So it's really cool to bring out these stories and see them share it out on their network and we’re tagged in them.
What advice would you offer that professional who's really looking to grow their network?
Find something that works for you that you can sustain. Having launched our own podcast a couple of months ago and determining what networks to get on, it's whatever creates the least friction. So do that. So if you like to write, write! Get it out there in an email newsletter, get it out there on a blog, get it out there in social media, and have it be more written and verbal. If you like to connect with people like I do. I'll do like a live with Jeff and I'll get people on a little five-minute live q&a on my Facebook page. So for me, I love connecting with other people. I love sharing their stories, I love the energy that comes from doing a live so for me, that's the most frictionless way. Having that podcast live and knowing this Friday at 12 just excites me and gets me going, where someone really might like writing and so there's still a place for blogs, there's still a place for an email newsletter. Consistency is the main thing so the thing that causes the least amount of friction, do that thing and do it for a long while before you change it.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
So I had a computer science degree and I could code the website, either graphic design monitor enjoyed the design, but I kind of moved at a pretty slow pace when it came to delegating and getting stuff off my plate. I had a lot of pleasure in building out the team and the leadership aspect of it. So I would tell my younger self, "Hey, move a little faster for getting some stuff off your plate." I had to think big picture and give someone else an opportunity so I could build a team together. A lot of times I have remote workers that just kind of stayed in a little box and it's a lot more rewarding for me at least to connect with others. So I'd say Jeff, get out of your shell, delegate more quickly and you'll have greater life satisfaction.
Connect with Jeff
Jeff’s Website: https://www.jeffvenn.com/
Create Web Studios: https://createwebstudios.com/
Meet Gail
Gail has a Degree in Journalism and Masters in curiosity! She guides clients to success with a marketing strategy centered around telling stories and making the right connections. How? Sign up, suit up, show up. Her resume includes media fundraising, advertising, PR, and owning a b&b. Gail now is a powerhouse connector, strategic brand consultant, and keynote speaker with a focus on manufacturing. She is a Twitter evangelist, a passionate networker, and an avid storyteller.
As I stated in the bio, but you're calling yourself a chief curiosity officer. Why is curiosity so important to you in the new virtual manufacturing marketing world?
Well, with curiosity, I encourage people to use it. First of all, I use it because that's how I really did the pivot into learning more about this world because I was a journalist, which I covered a lot of different topics. But manufacturing, I did not know much about that, and certainly, I've been doing work in mold-making, which is a very niche world and I use curiosity for me to learn. But then when I'm teaching now and working with clients in that world, I'm encouraging them to be curious about marketing, curious about outreach, curious about how can they make a change from the traditional trade shows. Especially since the pandemic, things have changed, and it's a disruption, not an interruption. So we're not going to go back to the way it was, it forever changed how we're going to be doing things and even if we go back to live, there's still going to be a digital component. So curiosity is like a muscle, if you're not using it, it just won't grow and curiosity is about growing, learning, and exploring the virtual world that for some people may seem overwhelming to them and may even seem a bit scary. So that's why I say number one if you're curious, you can learn so many new things, and become more adept at how to use all these virtual technologies.
Can you share some tips to help salespeople that are in the manufacturing industry that are trying to get away from the trade shows to best understand selling in the digital marketing world?
It is about asking those questions and first doing your research. So I always say before you try to sell to anyone, first learn about who your clients are and what they're looking for. What's happening is those same clients are doing that with you. They're doing research about your company, they're looking at your social media, they're looking at websites, they want to know who you are before they're even gonna think about buying from you. So you need as a salesperson to do the same thing. Dig in, find out who they are as much as possible. There's a lot of information you can find online about someone and some people and I've had some salespeople kind of feel uncomfortable with that they feel like "Well, I'm nosing around." I said, "In this world, if someone posts something publicly, they post it on a social media platform, it is done because they want to share something." So that's one tip is to do your research. The other thing is instead of selling, be generous with your information, share your knowledge, try to be a guide to who you're trying to sell to. So if you're in an engineering role, as a salesperson, you want to share all the intricacies of what goes into everything. Give me some insights, and I mean, give me meaning the person looking at your profile. One of the big stop gaps for a lot of the people in sales that I'm finding manufacturing is they go, "They're gonna know this," or, "If I explain this, most people already know this, I don't want them to think that I don't know it." So I said, "You'd be surprised at what people may want to learn about, and the people that may be doing the research aren't always the people that know about how that tool works, or what machine is on that tool. So be that guide, share information, and also share a bit of information about yourself. So if you have an interest in, for example, I may post something related to cycling, I got into cycling. So you need to focus on what are some of the interests that I have that might relate to even my role. We know when it comes to connecting with people, if you have a common interest it can be beneficial. Now, Lori, I know from your podcast that I know you're into cycling, so that we had a conversation about cycling, and what bike you use and so that's another thing. I make the correlation back to trade shows as well, when they went to a trade show, they would have been having these casual conversations. So it's about taking those casual conversations in real life and bringing them over to the virtual world.
Why do you think there's a resistance to virtual networking especially in the manufacturing space?
This is something I've actually been studying because as I came into this world of working in the manufacturing sector and trying to understand it. When I find resistance, I'm the kind of person I step back and I question why is that, what's happening? So I did a lot of listening, I asked for some feedback and it comes down to one is a lack of understanding of how social media works. So that means we need to do better in how we're explaining that. The other is fear. Fear of the unknown and most people naturally don't like change. It's like those comfortable shoes, right? You get into this comfortable lifestyle and then if someone comes along and says "Let's change," sometimes we resist. Now maybe because I've had some life changes for myself but I think it's also I can roll with things fairly easy and I actually find change exciting. I know not everybody is as excited about changes as I am so it's about trying to find that middle ground that balance and again, that goes back to utilizing curiosity because the more you're learning, the more you're asking questions, without fail, you will overcome some of those fears. It's like anything we fear things we don't know, we don't understand and once we learn about it, it makes it so much easier. So that's the work I'm doing right now is really taking a few steps back and also showing not telling. A lot of it goes back to what I say, "You have to just show up." Step one is just show up and trust in the process and then you can overcome. So in terms of why is there resistance, it goes back to, they've done trade shows before and that's the way they've always done it which worked for them. So there is a resistance to change. So mindset is also big and I've had these talks that if you're not going to have that open mind, then you're probably going to have some difficulties. So you have to make some decisions, and for me, I use the example of I get up at 5:30, I have my cold shower, I do my workout before I start my day because I'm not going to do it at the end of the day. I know I won't so if I'm going to get my workouts in my mindset is that I put my feet on the floor and I begin and I have conversations in my head like, "I don't want to do this." I think of all the excuses, but I just say, "Get going get going," and it's the same thing with networking when it comes to manufacturing. Sometimes you've got to do things you don't want to do as much.
Can you share one of your favorite networking stories with our listeners?
I have so many and networking has been the foundation of probably everything I've done from my high school days through to now but I'm going to give one that's more recent because it shows the trajectory of where I've come from on Twitter over to even being here today talking to you. So I started using Twitter. Then I was on a Twitter chat with Madalyn Sklar called Twitter Smarter and from there I met Nathalie Gregg, who had a Twitter chat called Lead Loudly. So I was on there and connected somehow with Jen Wagman, who introduced me to the USA Manufacturing Hour Twitter chat, which I did not know about. I'm now involved in that and they had a live networking event where I met Kurt Anderson who then introduces me to Sam Gupta and he also introduced me to you! So through all of this, I have been taking this path, and each of those people I now know and I know I can call them up, I can have a conversation and they have helped open doors for me. So that's my favorite networking because I can almost see this map taking me across all different networks from Twitter to LinkedIn, to zoom, and all of these other different platforms. So I didn't know some of them, but the reason I say just show up is because when I just show up, that's where the magic happens.
How do you stay in front of, invest, and nurture the relationships you're creating?
For me, I would say certain things are like breathing for me. So I do it naturally and I'm on so many different platforms and it's not that I'm there all the time and I'm not always online, I have a very active life outside of sitting at my computer on my phone. But it's about consistency. For example, in some of the networking groups that I go to, I try to show up regularly, maybe not all the time, but there are certain ones that it's like listening to podcasts, right? I listened to them, I have a system, and I try to just plan it into my day. People often say, "Well, I don't have time to do everything you do, Gail," and I said, "Well, we all have the same 24 hours." The same people sometimes that I hear say, "I have no time," will binge watch something on Netflix, and I'm like, "How do you have time to watch 30 programs on a Saturday, that seems strange to me." But that's because that's not a priority in my life and it's not like I don't watch Netflix shows, but I watch them differently. So to me, building relationships is crucial to my life, to my soul, and it's not just for work either. I do this because I love connecting to people and it just happens to provide phenomenal success to me from a business perspective. That's what I'm trying to work with the salespeople I say, "If you want to have an endless sales funnel, or you want to have an endless supply of people who will come to buy from you, stay connected with people build those relationships," and I very seldom ever really go on when I'm on my social media and promote what I do. In fact, a lot of people actually say, "What do you do exactly?" Because most people come and say that they want to work with me because of the relationships that were built or word of mouth.
What advice would you offer the business professional who's really looking to grow their network?
A lot of times people want to jump into multiple platforms and they get overwhelmed by everything. So I bring it down to the basics of if you are looking to build your business and build your contacts, you really need to start by building those relationships and connecting to people. So there are lots of opportunities now because there are groups, there are Facebook groups, LinkedIn groups, there's the Friday webinar series with Kurt Anderson on the Ecommerce for Success and I show up on Fridays because they have phenomenal guests. But there's a chat down the side when the people are speaking, and people drop their LinkedIn and so it's very live in terms of I can be listening to the person speaking but we have side conversations over on the chat. So that's what I encourage people to do and it's about just showing up. So when I show up even if I think that I don't think that guests will apply to me, I still show up and have always felt like it’s worthwhile and have always connected with a new person. So that's the first thing to do. I often tell people don't worry so much about feeling you have to post every day or that you have to send out massive amounts of connections. I'm going to say this anybody listening to is that if you're on LinkedIn, and you decide that you're going to send out all these connections to people, I would say slow down, figure out why you're connecting to people and for sure, do not connect and then send them a sales pitch. I get quite a few of those and I don't even respond. Instead, for example, I may listen to someone on a podcast and I really love what they have to say. So I'll send them a connection, say I heard them on this podcast, tell them what I found interesting or what resonated with them, ask them if they'd be interested in connecting, and I leave it at that. Sometimes I just follow someone first just so I can see their information and sometimes they will send me a connection. So it's about building relationships first and setting aside the selling, don't try to push what you have on to people, instead build those relationships. I say this because manufacturers did this when they went to trade shows. So I often say, "What did you do at a tradeshow? Did you walk up to someone put your hand out said hello, and then say, do you want to buy a tool for me?" I know they didn't do that so I tell them not to do that on social media. So instead, I think I may have heard it, even by one of your guests, it's social media, not social selling. So be social, be engaging, be generous, be kind, I think that you can disagree with someone and not have to always make it a public disagreement. So just find people that you feel you can have a conversation with.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
This is a really good question because it really makes you think about what would I do. Maybe when I was younger I would answer differently because my life has actually taken a different path than I thought I was going to take from high school. Probably I'd say, to keep doing what I'm doing because I'm now in a place in my life that I actually love what I do, I'm not looking to say, "Hey, when do I get to retire?" I love the people I'm meeting so I probably just say keeping curious and keep showing up even more. Maybe one thing I'd say is to own your power a bit earlier in life. I think I might have thought of ways that instead of shrinking back sometimes, own your power and now I use that as part of my planning and work with clients is own your power.
What is the final word of advice that you'd offer listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
First, your mindset, you have to decide this is what you want, and break it down into bite-sized pieces. I use the analogy of when I'm planning out a campaign for a salesperson, sometimes people at the start of the year, they'll say, "I want to do a marathon," for example. Well, you can have that as your goal and it can sit there staring at you for a long time. But if you then break it down and say, "I'm going to start with first walking around the block once a day during week one, week two I'm going to double that, week three I'm going to do a little light jog," so you put it into bite-sized pieces. I say the same thing when it comes to networking so first show up and just listen. and break it down into steps and ask for help, there are people like myself out here willing to help. Listen to podcasts, become educated, I listen to a lot of manufacturing podcasts as well and that's how I've learned. So start somewhere, then show up.
Connect with Gail
Website: https://gailnow.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gailrobertsonkeynotespeaker/
Twitter: @GailNow
Instagram: @GailNow1
Meet Geoffrey
He is the founder of Voice Express Corporation, with multiple patents covering the personalization of voice-enabled print media, and VOT (the voice of things), Stern has been at the forefront of using voice to drive commerce and customer engagement. Stern's products have been used in over 60 million Build-a-Bears in sentiment expression, photo imaging, direct mail, packaging, and point of sale signage to name a few.
Does every product, service, and brand need a voice, and how do you discover that voice?
I think when we're in school, we're always asked to find our own voice, whether we're writing or whether we're an artist. Think of a child where the first thing that they do, the first interaction that they have is to hear their loved one mother's or father's voice and to start to gurgle and interact with the world through voice. So voice is very primal and it's also a primal trigger. There were some brands that really kind of feature themselves and define themselves through audio. There were others, especially business to business type brands that might not realize that they have a voice too and they have a voice in the larger sense of the world in the sense that whether you sell a spring or a widget or personal care products when the customer uses it, your brand should be delivering a message that is more than just the physical product or service. So our company, as you said, is involved with linking products that can speak, can engage, can interact with the consumer. But I would suggest that anyone listening who is involved with any sort of branding, whether it be a product, a service, or just their own personal capital, needs to have a voice and needs to explore ways to engage with that voice and to flesh out all of the different personalities, characteristics, and aspects of that voice.
How does a brand innovate and keep fresh?
It's part of the sense of a voice and there is kind of a new tagline out there. It's called conversational commerce and it doesn't necessarily relate to products like mine that literally talk. But ultimately, whenever you have a customer who's interacting with a product, there's a conversation, and it's a two-way conversation. So brands that are growing, are constantly listening to their customers and hoping that their customers are also listening to them. One of the things that we did during the past year and so many brands have pivoted is we started offering our products on Amazon. We did it for the obvious reasons of having another channel of revenue, but more to the point because we are a technology enabler and many times stand quietly, silently behind the brand, when you offer something direct to consumer through Amazon so that we don't have to get involved with customer service, shipping, and delivery, it enables us to everyday look at the comments and look at the way that our customers are using our products. Frankly, most of our best ideas literally come from our customers. So I think the secret to growth is really listening to the users of your products, watching how they engage with your products or services and that's the best source of innovation.
What is the future of voice and what do you see happening with the voice of things?
Well, I think the biggest misconception about voice in terms of the recent introduction of smart speakers like Alexa or Google Home, or even Siri is that these are voice assistants, they're smart, they're artificial intelligence-driven. It's all true, but at a much lower level their interfaces are more in line with a mouse or a touchscreen, they're simply a way of interacting with other devices that maybe don't need touch and maybe have a higher level of privacy because every voice has its own coding. But I think that a voice, on the one hand, has to be put up on a pedestal in terms of, "Wow, this is amazing what you can do with it!" But on the other hand, it has to be integrated into all of the simple, trivial, habitual things that we do, and again, it's not the end-all of everything. When it's appropriate, when you need a hands-free environment, voice is great. Sometimes you need to move from voice, to screen, to mouse, to a touchpad. So it's just another tool in the arsenal, but it's a very powerful tool and the beautiful thing about it is the more it gets us the better it gets. So I think that we are going to find voice integration and voice interaction in more and more products, and it's going to impact how we humanoids converse because we're going to learn to appreciate that voice is something that needs to be used just to establish a conversation and an interaction.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
Well, I've started my company from the beginning, and we're 20 plus years old as a virtual company, pretty much. We manufacture a lot of stuff in the Far East. I have software programmers and hardware engineers that I've worked with for over 20 years, but it's based on a network. It's a kind of a precursor of the gig economy and I just love waking up in the morning and not knowing who I'm going to be talking to, where they're located, what timezone they're on. But I think what you need to do in terms of networking, is to be open to the serendipity of finding relationships, finding things in common and I think people are very open to that. So networking is something that one should look at as something that is actually enjoyable and opens up your little world to the global economy in ways that never could happen before. We can network today as we've never networked before.
How do you stay in front of them best nurture these relationships, especially on a global level?
Well, I think the most important thing, and this is a trite answer, but character. You need to know and your network of friends and associates need to know that your word is your word, that if you say you're going to help, if you say you're going to look into something you will. That is this cement of any network that people have confidence in you. We talked today about influences, and we are all micro-influencers, and we're all brand ambassadors, and all of that is based on trust in someone else expanding your reach which ultimately, is what networking is about.
What advice would you offer to those business professionals really looking to grow their network?
You have to be seen and heard, you can't grow a network by living in a cave. So it's not giving up everything that you've done and dedicating an hour a day to troll, whether it's LinkedIn or other social networking platforms. I just think it means that doing what you do integrate into your life, the ability when you get a good idea, to share it, or when you embark on a project to share that journey. You have to integrate it into your life, as opposed to segregating it out of your life. If you do that, then it becomes something very natural and I think that is probably not only the best way to do it, but if you if you're talking to somebody and they want to network, more than likely if you ask them to change the way they do business or work, it's a tough lift. But if you ask them to enhance the way they do what they're doing already or to share it more, or to be open to learning from others, then networking can become much more natural.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I think delegating is my biggest challenge. I'm an entrepreneur and it's wonderful to sing the praises of being a virtual company, and having all of these networks, but in my particular regard, the challenge is on the other side to be able to let go and to launch an idea and let other people take it from there. Ultimately, that is the most profound way we can network. It comes to when we raise children and all of a sudden they say something that we didn't teach them but they extrapolated from something that we said so you kind of see your ideas take on a new life. It's the same in business and I just have to learn and I'm constantly striving to throw out an idea or throw out a project, and then see where it goes using its own inertia.
We've all heard of the six degrees of separation. Who would be the one person that you'd love to connect with and do you think you can do it within the sixth degree?
There are so many people that I admire in the tech world. I think that I have some people that I've looked at forever, some of them are no longer with us, whether it's a Steve Jobs or others. But I think that actually, to focus on just one person is probably selling oneself short. I think that one has to find the Steve Jobs or the iconic person inside of pretty much everyone. If we drill down, I think we'll rather than trying to extend our six degrees, I think within six degrees, we can find all of the role models and mentors that we probably need.
Do you have any final word or advice for our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
Always experiment or try something new. The worst that can happen is you fail, but no one has succeeded without failing and keep trying, and ultimately, something is going to work out. Sometimes you send out 100 messages, 100 emails, you post X amount of times, and it's that one lead that can change everything. So keep at it, keep trying, always experiment and try something new.
Connect with Geoffrey
If you want a sample of Geoffrey’s new product, Connect, reach out to me (lori.highby@keystoneclick) and if you are one of the first 25 listeners to reach out, you will receive your sample!
Meet Valerie
After almost 30 years with Monofrax, Valerie has progressed from Clerk to Marketing Manager. She's just beginning to network and has found that the last year of virtual networking meetings and webinars was the perfect place to start. Just don't ask her to attend a speed networking event!
I'm curious why you're not interested in speed networking, is there any reason why?
Speed networking is sort of my worst nightmare. I mean, frankly, it's the business version of speed dating, and I'm just like, "Oh, this is so bad," and especially for someone who's an introvert that likes to have a few moments to think before they answer on anything, the pressure is a little too much.
I totally understand. So tell me a bit about Monofrax and what you guys do.
The short boring answer is that we are a manufacturer of fused cast refractories. The more interesting answer is that we are a foundry that does not pour steel, we pour artificial stone.
What exactly is artificial stone?
Well, first of all, we're at twice the temperature of lava, which I think is really cool and we're pouring blocks that are to be used for the linings of glass furnaces and metal furnaces.
So who's your buyer that's buying from you?
Predominantly our customers are the glass industry and light steel or light metal. We've also been used for nuclear vitrification and we have a global presence and we have been selling worldwide for the last 30 years.
What's it like coming into a marketing role without any experience in that space?
It was a little frightening because I have no background and no experience. But on the other hand, I consider it a huge advantage because if I'd taken marketing 30 years ago in college, things have changed so much since then that I'm looking at it with fresh eyes. Nothing is out of the question and I'm just willing to throw myself into it completely.
What was your biggest challenge that you faced moving into this role?
The biggest challenge has been the organization, marketing, strategy, and plans. All of those things that I probably would have learned if I'd studied in college. The rest of it would be the writing for social media, and articles for industry magazines, those things came a lot easier.
Can you share with our listeners one of your favorite networking experiences that you’ve had?
My favorite probably is when this all started and I can either blame or credit Kurt Anderson, for all of this who I know he's been a guest on your podcast. I attended a Manufacturing Marketing World Conference back in 2019, sat in the center of the room and this gentleman comes and sits next to me and starts a conversation. He's as energetic as always, he's the biggest cheerleader for manufacturing and that's where it all started. I started talking to him and then when he started his manufacturing Ecommerce Success Series, I started attending that and I started networking with the people that were also in that attending and it sort of just started rolling from there.
As you continue to connect and meet with new people, how do you best nurture these relationships that you're creating?
I'm probably not really good at the nurturing part, I'm better at the connecting part because I go to a webinar, if it's one that's weekly or bi-weekly and I consistently go I get to the point where I recognize the other people in the room. Then it's much easier to go down the chat list or look at the people in the gallery and go, "Oh, okay, I need to connect with this person, and then I can write them a quick message on LinkedIn and say, Hey, I see you're attending the same webinar." So I already have my script prepared, because we're doing something together at the same time, we have the same interest and it just makes it a whole lot easier to do that.
What advice would you offer that business professional who's really looking to grow their network?
Probably to do something very similar, where you're going to a webinar series or something else like that and on a consistent basis, you're seeing the same people and you can start to come up with a list of who looks interesting who can help you, which is my primary reason for networking because since I'm new to marketing, I'm looking for all the people that I can that are experts because I figured why not learn from the best? Then you'll know who you would be interested in marketing and networking with which makes it a whole lot easier.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, would you tell yourself to do more or less than or differently with regards to your professional career?
I think if I went back to my 20-year-old self, I would say, take more risks. Don't be quite so afraid of doing things, you're more capable than you think you are.
Connect with Valerie:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/valerie-weber-a69a3743/
Meet Andy
Andy was a business executive who learned to adapt and thrive in a rapidly changing, highly uncertain environment. Now, he's a leadership coach and career strategist who helps individuals who want to go from just getting by, to having insanely awesome careers. Andy is a Certified Professional Coach, has an MBA in management, is certified as an expert in Lead Management Systems, and is a Board Certified Healthcare Administrator.
I'm curious to learn about what led you to change careers and become a leadership coach, could you tell us a bit about that process?
Wow, that's a great question. Not to be boastful, but I had a pretty successful career. As you mentioned in the intro, my career was in healthcare administration and so I had a really good career, I had some great mentors and I worked for some great organizations. But I got to a point in my career, kind of a crossroads, where I thought that I've got the second half of my career to look forward to, and how do I really want to spend that? What I really enjoyed most about my career, up to that point was helping develop others in seeing future leaders grow and develop and advance their careers. I was involved in a lot of extracurricular professional organizations and such, where I found myself speaking to large audiences about career advancement, working with individuals, one on one mentoring individuals. So when I got to that crossroads, in my career, I made the decision that what I enjoy most about leadership is helping others develop as leaders. I found this thing called coaching, that, quite frankly, I didn't know much about myself. It's just one of those things that just really spoke to me and really hit on a lot of my personal values and passions. Over the last few years, I took the time to deliberately make that transition and become certified and I'm enjoying the heck out of working with folks as they want to advance their careers and have those insanely awesome careers.
It sounds like more and more people are finding coaching as a pathway to their career advancement, why do you think that is?
We can't ignore what happened over the last year, but up into and through and even now, to this point, the corporate environment, the business world itself has just become so competitive and so fast-paced and constantly evolving. New changes are happening every day, especially with innovation and, and the digital era that we're in. It's hard for a leader to keep up with everything so you have a lot of working professionals, you have dual-income families where the husband and the wife, or the spouses are both working and raising families. So there's just a lot on people's plates these days. I think individuals are looking for ways to continue to have that competitive advantage in the workplace, and continue to advance their careers. For so long coaching has been this wizard behind the curtain kind of thing, if you will, where folks have heard of it, but don't really know much about it, and haven't looked into it all that much and one of the things that have really helped coaching kind of launch more into the mainstream and be more evident, is the digitization of it. So many organizations are going to online virtual platforms, much like we're doing here with the podcast, where you can work with a coach from your home, the coach can be anywhere in the world. So it's a great opportunity to work with somebody to put together your plan of action. The biggest thing about a coach is that a coach is not an advisor, they're not a counselor, they're not a mentor, they don't have all the answers for you, a coach really believes that you have all the answers you need and that you know your path forward, you have the skills that will make you successful. So a coach kind of helps draw that out and package that up in such a way that you have the vision and the pathway forward, to help with your success. Individuals are looking for things like work-life balance, or career advancement, or maybe even thinking about a career change themselves and are curious about the steps to make that career change. The idea of becoming a solopreneur these days is very attractive and so folks trying to maybe get out of the corporate grind like me, and looking to put their thoughts together into, "Is that the right move for me? Should I make that move? What are the pros and cons of all of that?" A coach is really there to help you think through all of those kinds of things and really press you to take some action.
What are some of the myths that you hear around coaching that you'd like to dispel?
I think the biggest myth is that coaching is needed when you have a performance improvement plan, or when your organization has decided that they need to see your performance improve. So it's almost punitive, in a sense that coaching has traditionally been looked at that way. Everything that I just described up until this point, would really dispel that myth. It is a very proactive way to manage yourself, manage your career, manage your life, manage your family, your finances, and so on and so forth. Anything you can think of that you want to improve on, a coach can help you with that. I think a lot of folks also tend to lump mentors and coaches together. Those are similar, but there are some differences there. A mentor to somebody you go to when you want to walk in their shoes, and you want to learn the way that they got to where they are so you're looking to understand exactly what they did and follow in their footsteps. Again, as I said a minute ago, coaching is not that. Coaching believes you already know what you want to do, what you need to do, and is going to help you put those thoughts into action. I think the last myth with coaching, that I think is important to understand is that, like mentoring folks, especially in leadership, tend to think that attending leadership development programs or signing up for leadership development cohorts is similar. I always like to think that leadership development is one thing that is very helpful. I had a lot of opportunities in my past career with leadership development, and it was great and it helped me advance my career, but there was never a partner that I had through any leadership development program who was going to help me put a lot of what I learned in development programs into play. So what I like about coaching is that you have that accountability partner who is going to make sure that all of the skills and abilities that you've acquired through the years, whether it be through experience or whether it be through formal development, that you're employing those in the workplace and in your field of expertise, and really bringing out the best in yourself. Then coaches make sure they are holding you accountable to making sure that you are performing at your best.
Can you help me do that by sharing with our listeners, one of your most successful favorite networking experiences that you've had?
I didn't realize until a short time ago that I would label myself as kind of a perpetual networker. It is something that's always been important to me, especially in my career to be involved in various ways especially through professional organizations. For me, I was a member and still am a member and have been in leadership roles with the American College of Healthcare Executives. So again, that was my past career as a healthcare executive. Now, as a leadership coach, I still work with many healthcare executives as well. So it's still important to me to maintain that networking relationship with the American College of Healthcare Executives. But even personally, getting involved with things at school, with the kids, with the church, with things in the community. I think it's important to have a balance so that you don't overindulge yourself in networking. My favorite networking experiences, though, are those ones where you really develop lasting relationships. So one in particular, that I'm thinking of was early on in my career when I was first getting into leadership and really looking at how could I formulate that my vision and my career goals. I reached out to somebody who was a member of the American College of Healthcare Executives who ended up becoming a really close friend of mine. We talk regularly, our kids ended up playing on the same little league team together for a while. So we kind of followed each other in terms of our career path and obviously, I'm on a different path now than he is, but it was something that we always found each other is kind of confidants and friends and, helpful advisors, if you will, and mentors to each other. I can't say enough about the value of networking in terms of developing those types of relationships that you can always leverage because we all need what I call your personal Board of Directors, for your career or life, and networking is a great way to build that personal Board of Directors.
How do you stay in front of these relationships that you're creating and cultivating your community?
I think one of the silver linings to really come out of this pandemic is the ability to stay connected virtually. When we were all working from home, and it was difficult to go out to networking events or have a lunch meeting or anything like that, you found that you can stay in touch virtually by having virtual coffee sessions, or even just messaging on LinkedIn, just to check in with folks. I always made it a goal throughout the last year to, check in with a certain number of folks a week. They were who I was going to check in with just to see how things are going. What was great about that was I was reaching out to folks that were outside of my immediate area of where I lived so I was able to connect with folks across the country, who otherwise, I would not have been able to connect with and probably would have lost touch with. I can't say enough about what this last year has done for us as individuals in terms of our ability to network and expand our horizons, and meet new people and establish new connections and stay connected with old connections as well.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I really think what I would have told my younger self was to pace myself a little bit more. I think I became so focused on climbing the quote, unquote, ladder, that I missed some opportunities and experiences. I think if anything, I would go back and tell myself to just pace things out and to not get out over the tips of my skis because there's a burnout factor that's real for a lot of us when we're trying to chase something relentlessly, and missing opportunities in other ways. So that would be one of the big things because even though I definitely enjoyed my 20s and it was later in my 20s when I first started having a family, I think that that is important. You're only young once, and there's a lot to enjoy about life other than focusing too much on your career.
Do you have any final words of advice for listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
Get out there and connect with folks on LinkedIn. Look for those in companies that you are interested in working for, or organizations that you're interested in being a part of, and don't be afraid to just send that connection on LinkedIn. I always like to say to attach a note to it as well. Just send a nice personal note of, "Hey, I'm interested in your company," or, "I'm interested in learning more about your organization and would you mind being my connection?" It just adds an extra little personal touch that helps to create a stronger connection, rather than just adding to your list of how many are in your network. Just get out there and do it is the best advice I can give.
Connect with Andy
Website: https://www.andyhillig.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyhillig-career-innovator/
Email: andy@andyhillig.com
Meet John
John brings his experience of lead generation, marketing automation, and social media marketing to up Optessa. started out his career with New York, Community Bancorp as a marketing assistant and later worked for iCIMS and Hermetic Solutions Group and Versatile Roles, driving new business and elevating the brand within their respective industries. John holds a bachelor's degree in business administration with a concentration in marketing and advertising from Seton Hall University.
How do you determine the channels where you have a presence online?
So I always start with doing research. I think that there are no shortage of platforms that are available to anyone these days, and there seems to be a new one every week or new features so I think it all starts with doing your research. The other piece that a lot of people forget is that you don't have to be on every single one of them. I don't think anyone really has the time to do this effectively so you have to stick to the channels where you feel you can provide the most value, jump on, and start engaging. For myself, I spend the bulk of my time on Twitter, LinkedIn, and Facebook because that's where most of my customers are, my communities are, individuals within the industries I serve are providing value, or have a robust presence if you will. Once you've actually joined those channels and selected them, you have to start building credibility, you have to start engaging, you have to start providing value and that's another piece where when you're online, it can't always be a sales pitch. I say that a lot in the chats and in the communities I'm a part of. I tend to provide thought leadership pieces, blog posts, reports that I come by that are relevant for my industry, and I have individual look to me and my company to kind of be that soundboard of what's happening or what's trending. Then I let pieces like my website or my social profile do the selling for me, and I make sure that where I drive them gives the opportunity to engage with me, get in contact with me or members of my team so I'm less spending less time selling. So I think once you're on those channels, you have to find your way of providing value without being too salesy. So get your research, don't join every channel, you will not have enough time to have a presence on each of the channels effectively and once you're there, spend a lot of time on they're building credibility, provide value, and don't sell people every minute you're on there. Have a nice balance between the value provide and what you're selling, as well.
Why are online communities vital to the success of a business today?
Communities were what I really started doing back when I was with Hermetic Solutions Group and it was one of those things again, going back to I just said like, I was just doing my research. I had to understand where my buyers were, where my audiences were, and where I can provide the most value and ultimately return to my business. So I started building communities online, and it started with just getting that profile. So when you're looking at Twitter or LinkedIn, specifically, you have the ability to create a profile, add images, add a bio, put links, and start engaging and having people go to these profiles as an extension of your website. So I was building those communities online and then I was struggling with what next? Now what? I'm on there now, how do people find me? I really gravitated towards the online communities and what people were saying about certain topics, topics using different industry hashtags, Twitter chats had been huge, events have been tremendous and always follow the event hashtag. I tended to shy away from what's trending topics, because to me, sometimes it feels like the brand, or the company or the person is trying to stretch their purpose or their tie back to the trending topics so I kind of stay away from those. But going back to online communities, they're vital. I mean, no matter the size of your business, you need to be online, take the COVID-19, take the pandemic out of it. I think even before that, I think there was a shift of going online where more people were looking to online forums, or online channels or social media, where they're getting their news where they were talking with family and friends, where they were doing more of their networking for business, I think it was all gravitating more online. I saw a stat where the adoption of social media in the last year went up over 13%, which is another 490 million people who joined a social network in the last year. Facebook has always been the leader, but there are so many other channels, microchannels that are starting to nip at the heel of Facebook, and they're starting to provide more value to their users because they're starting to do things differently and they're starting to innovate. I think the more that this innovation is happening with these different platforms, I think you're gonna see those numbers of the users online, jump and be consistently growing by 10% year over year. Now the use of the platform's you know, some people are on them very casually, some check it every now and again, but your users like myself use it every day. Every day you can find me either sending out a tweet or a post on LinkedIn or sharing something to Facebook. I'm very active on there and I make sure that I'm engaging with my communities so they know that they can find me, they know if they send me something on one of those channels I'm going to respond, or at least I'm going to see it. As a business you have to embrace the online communities, they're not going away. The tools that are on and available, are only going to get better and I think it is only going to increase in frequency, just look at the start of things like Clubhouse or Twitter spaces and the different stories and fleets and everything else. Every channel seems to be doing very similar things, but you still see pockets where people only still use Twitter, only use LinkedIn, or people will stay with Facebook, and that's fine. But you also get people that are on all of them who share across all the platforms. So I think it's vital that if you have a business, you're trying to sell something, and you're just trying to stay relevant this day and age, you have to be online.
How do you know if things are actually working? Is it just looking at the metrics, or is it engagement? What's your take on that?
I think the piece of it when you're doing your community and I would you just said him on touch upon is there's a lot of negativity on the social platforms and it's a lot of what people see is that people just go on it and use it to complain. I think if you're a business and a customer tries reaching out, or a potential client tries reaching out and you don't answer them, that's potential money left on the table, you have to be there. You have to understand that if you have a Twitter page or a Twitter profile, and you never check it, but someone that's researching your company is sending you messages or is interacting with you and tagging you in posts and you are dormant, they're not going to engage you and then potentially you can miss out on a business opportunity with them. I would say there's a lot more positive going out on the social platforms, I don't think it's all negative. I think the negative outweighs the positive at times, but I think it quickly snaps back like a rubber band and I think people get back to business, back to what they're doing. But your question related to metrics, and how to measure what to do here. Vanity metrics are good and need to be your obsession when you're first starting out with a new profile. So if you're just starting a new profile, you want to make sure you build a following base, get those subscribers, get that community around you because that bolsters your profile and makes you feel good. When you see those numbers go up, you get those email notifications, and you start seeing the numbers go up, and you're feeling good. You can also look at what I call the thoughtless actions in many metrics. Those are things like people that are doing simple retweets, liking your posts, or simple reactions to your story. There's no real engagement, just minimal, it's almost like the person wants to like acknowledge they saw it. It's good still, but I would rather see the engagement piece of it and I think after some time of you starting to build up your profile and get those numbers and you get a follower base, and I'm not saying you need to get to thousands of followers. It doesn't matter the size of your follower base because as long as they are fans, and they are engaging with you, and you're responding to them, and you're just consistently providing value to him, I think that's enough to say you have a presence online, and when engaging can kind of look like because there are certain people that have 1000s of followers, and they put a post up and they get no interaction, no engagement, there's nothing there. Like I said, sharing it just because this celebrity said it or whatever it is, isn't really engagement. How many times you see celebrities or politicians or anyone really taking the time to really respond to every single thing that person has said, or really going back and liking or doing something that you did. There's no real engagement there. But I really think vanity is good as you start, I think that you need to make sure that you don't see a dip in the vanity metrics. If you start seeing people not following you, or unsubscribing, or if you start posting on a consistent basis, but you're not seeing as many likes or retweets, or you're not seeing those things, you might have to rethink what you're sharing because there could be that idea that your content is getting tired. I'm not saying message fatigue in terms of repetition, because that's almost like repurposing your content. But if you're saying the same thing, if you're sharing the same white paper, like people don't want to see that, they want to see new, they want exciting, they want something that you're providing more value to them. As you are building online communities you get that engagement, you actually start having conversations with people and you have conversations about different topics. If it's a topic about a product or service that you're offering even better because now you're having almost like a sales conversation without even knowing it. So you're just engaging with them, you're going back and forth, they're asking you questions, you're responding. Or you could be responding to a gripe that someone has, or you could be just offering advice. If you can speak about something, you know, I'm in service and if I can help you or if I know a software that can help or I have experience with software, I'm absolutely going to give my two cents about it if someone asks, or they're in a community in which we engage on a consistent basis, because why not? I'm here to help! Everyone should be here to help and, and bring people up instead of tearing them down on the social network. So I think vanity is good to start. I think that you should pay attention to it, focus on it, but then you should quickly look at who is engaging with me? What do they do? What are the topics and subjects that matter to them? Then see where you can take those conversations to either help your business or also help build your credibility as well.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
So I love Twitter chats and I think it's an absolutely unbelievable way to network. Usually, the Twitter chats are an hour each week so there's a consistency to it. I think you jump in and you engage, and you learn from others in these Twitter chats in these communities and your network. People are always looking for on social media that return and the return is what you make of it. So you can engage with people, and then you can say, "Okay, I engaged with you for an hour, now I'm going to go away." But recently, I've been taking the conversations a step further and I've reached out to a number of individuals that I've engaged with on a community or Twitter chat for about a couple of months now. I didn't do it after my first time there, but after some time you start providing value, engaging, and getting to know the people, you can research a little bit, you can understand what they're doing, their business is doing, and you learn from them, now it's time to take the conversation to a new level. You have to reach out, you have to network, you have to better understand what all those around are doing, how you can service them, it's pretty much how we connected and why I'm on with you, which is fantastic. You have to step out, you have to take it upon yourself to network and go above and beyond. You'd be surprised that a lot more people are open and receptive to it. People forget that behind the handles online are people and there are people behind the brands. You get to know their names, you can understand who they are. You see a lot of brands and a lot of social media managers now starting to sign their names on tweets and Twitter, for example, because they want to be addressed by name, they don't want to be at x company, they want to be @Lori, or like when I'm tweeting for up Optessa, I always say it's John, or my product manager, Alex will put Alex. There are others that are doing and as well because there's a person behind there. You have to understand who's tweeting because there could be multiple people, there could be different individuals that are taking different stances. There could be a salesperson on the other end, or there could be a social manager on the other end, it could be the CEO. So it's very important when you're networking or when you're online to go and look and see the opportunities that can present themselves with consistent engagement, and don't be afraid to jump in. I would say I've had more conversations with people in the last three months than I have in three years and it was just due to the simple fact that I started to engage with people outside of the normal channel and I use Twitter chats as that gateway. So I'm consistent with a number of them, there are about eight of them that I am a frequent member of the chat there on my Twitter profile. I'm able to speak intelligently about almost everyone that engages so I know about their companies. We've either had side conversations after the chats, or I paid attention and made my own notes about them during the chats. So you had to figure out ways to network and you have to do stuff that's not your norma. It's amazing, but you can still pick up the phone, and still call people and still engage with them or shoot them a text. So there are plenty of ways to network and I think the more people do it, and the more you do it, the more you're going to like. Like I said, in the last three months, I think I've had over a dozen conversations where people on the phone or zoom or whatever it is, that I would not have gotten in front of if I didn't utilize Twitter, and the chats and decided upon myself to say that I'm going to call someone and we're gonna have a conversation. It always comes from a genuine place of I want to learn more about you and I also want to tell you about me.
How do you nurture your network and your community?
I consistently engage especially on Twitter because it's so fast-paced. I think from the Twitter chat in the communities that I'm a part of there are unbelievable opportunities within them to consistently reach out to them. On a weekly basis, you have the chat, but then you're also able to follow them, you're also able to check out their website, or their blog, or the content they're sharing outside of the chat and I make sure I show up. Of course, life happens, and there are things that get in the way and I do miss a couple of chats because there are things that come up outside of my control, but I make sure that if I can be present, I'm present. I network with the teams, I speak with them and it's not all business. People are talking about what's happening in their lives, cool new renovations, or what happened over the weekend, it's beyond the business conversation. It's almost like you nurture it to the point where you become friends, just by your tweets, and you become friends by engaging them enough on social media that you know so much about them. You know so much about people and you haven't even met them before and that's the best thing.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I would definitely say I should have networked more. I spent more time focused on the tasks within the company and didn't dedicate enough time to go into events, or networking efficiently. I also think I would have done a lot more certifications and training as well because that's another huge area where you can network and grow. I've recently done a couple of marketing certifications, and I just learned so much in those times and there is an investment, but at the same time you always have to invest in yourself. So if I had to go back and kick myself when I was 20 I would definitely say, go to that happy hour, or networking event and really start making those connections. As I progressed in my career and changed roles, I've built relationships with the people I worked around, and I've always been able to go back to them and every time I've had the conversations if I was changing a career, or if I needed advice, they were always so happy to provide it. I like to say that to others, as well that if I can help you, or if we've crossed paths, please reach out to me, I'm very open. But yeah, if I had to go back and kick myself at 20, I would definitely say, network, and also spend more time investing in yourself from a certification and training standpoint, because those are the things that people can't take away from you and things that just helped build and bolster your professional profile.
Do you have any final words of advice to offer listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
Do your research and don't try to be everywhere. Like Tic Toc is great, but if you don't have a reason to be on there, please don't. Pick your platform, do your research, and engage meaning you have to be there, you have to be present, you have to engage. I'm very active, like I said on Twitter, LinkedIn, and Facebook every now and again, but you can definitely find me on Twitter. I'm happy to answer any questions, happy to welcome into any communities I'm a part of, I'm also open to introductions into new ones as well. I think providing value, engage with communities you pick, and also taking part in more of what profiles you're sticking with is crucial. I think if you have a presence, be present on that channel and it'll make itself out and I think there'll be a lot of value in the long run for you.
Connect with John
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnbuglino/
Twitter: @john_buglino
Meet Andrew
Andrew is the founder of Fangled Group, a strategy-first multilingual Global Marketing and Sales Consultant, and has successfully driven business growth in more than 120 countries, driving revenue in the 10s of billions of dollars. He's also the host of the Fangled Cast podcast where incredible guests take deep dives into relevant topics for the business world.
Let's talk a little bit about brand. What do you mean by converting every touch into ferocious advocates for your brand?
Well, one of the things that gets missed is that in the business world, everybody talks about this idea of the mission statement, we talk about your brand story. A mission statement is that thing that goes up on the wall that people talk about to sort of prime themselves before a planning meeting, whereas a mission statement is really who your company is and the brand is what are they saying about you when you're not there? So when we talk about converting every touch, most companies talk about converting customers into brand advocates and I think it falls short. So when you think about the number of people who don't do business with you but love your company. I mean, if you go to like a luxury brand, how many people out there love Ferrari but could never own one? So what we talk about every touch is every person who comes in contact with your employees, your company, your products, your services, leaves going, "I wish that I could do business with them, and not only that, I love what they do so much that I'm going to tell people about it." That's what we mean by every touch becoming ferocious advocates.
Another area that you really focus on is, as opposed to competitors, you talk about alternatives. What exactly is the difference?
It's a fun one to get into because sometimes people say, "You're just splitting pairs," but I'm not. So imagine that you're a manufacturer of construction nails and you get asked who are your competitors and your answer would be all of these other guys that also make construction nails. We say, well, a construction nail is a solution to bonding two things together. So your competitors are nails, yes, but the alternative solutions could be screws, it could be adhesive, it could be tape, it could be making products that snap together, it could be twine. All of those are alternative solutions to the problem that the person who's buying a nail would see. So when we do a, quote, competitive landscape, it's not just other people who make what you make, it's other people who make solutions to the problem that your product could solve.
How can people turn boring video meetings, which we are all having today into memorable events?
When you look at the typical zoom meeting, it's a bunch of heads in a box and occasionally people will do some sort of weird background, they don't have their lighting right, you're looking up their nose, they don't have the camera angle. So phase one of being better in terms of video in terms of meetings and things like that, is getting all of that correct. But then there's the next level, there's how do you, for example, share your screen in a way that you're really giving the person the impression that you're in the room. We use open-source software that we teach people how to use, that literally creates a TV studio on your computer, that shows up in your zoom meeting and your blue jeans, with your Teams meetings, so that you can truly control the environment, you can shrink yourself down, put your PowerPoint up, and grow back up if somebody asked questions, you can re-engage and all that type of stuff. The same tech works if you're making videos. So when people get to see you almost as a performer, the same way they would if you were in the boardroom with a PowerPoint or a video up on the screen, you can recreate that. But it came out of somebody asking the question, "How the heck can I be in the room, but I can't be in the room?" We've looked at all these techniques and started teaching how to do that as a side project within the Fangled groups division we call innovation. All of that stuff, if you're a lousy presenter will make you a lousy presenter with gimmicks, but if you're a good presenter, it'll really be able to enhance and give you a creative edge so that when three different companies pitch your customer, you're the one they're going to remember.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
So it was about I would say three months ago, I was in a very odd networking group. I was experimenting trying to see how people would see the video course that we do so I went into some networking groups I wouldn't normally join. There was a gentleman in that networking group who I would put on the scale most people would have some not nice things to say because he was a very odd guy and it got to the point that people were like private messaging each other, "What's what's with this dude?" Well, I found it interesting and looked at what he did and what company he was within that networking group, and connected, because I wanted to talk to him just to see a little bit more. He ended up introducing me to a very good client that we just took on board. So one of the things that I always talk about in networking, and almost all of the success stories that we've had from truly being able to land clients, or getting people to introduce us to important people, is don't look and judge, ask and listen and recognize the value of folks, because it's a powerful, powerful tool to get through doors if you would never get on a cold call.
As you continue to reach out and connect and meet new people, how do you stay in front of, invest, and nurture these relationships?
It's about communication and I use two methods. One of them is something I learned back in the days before computers were on our desks, called backdating. What I'll do is if I meet somebody, and I know that there's going to be the next step, I throw something on my calendar based on the day, not just making it a to-do list so that I get to it. So I sort of automated that way. The other is I do have marked on my schedule every day, early in the morning, a 30 minute period of time where I go through all of the notes that are in a special place that I keep them to make sure that I'm not letting any of the opportunities where the connections that could lead to opportunity slip. I'm not above sending somebody a note going, "I was in the meeting yesterday talking about something that related to our conversation, we should get back together and take it to the next level." People, people don't get asked questions that really dig into who they are as people and everybody likes to talk about themselves. So if you take your notes, and you keep tracking away, that you're not just looking at the data, but you're also looking at the person behind it, so they can feel like you care and you're interested, it always helps build those relationships. Sometimes, people I've met, every six months or so we touch base, and then three or four years later turns into something.
What advice would you offer to a business professional who's really looking to grow their network?
To make sure that you're connecting with people and not names. If you send me a connection request on LinkedIn because you think that I should be in your network, I probably won't respond to it unless there's something in there that's meaningful, either mutually beneficial or, "Hey, I saw your podcast, we talked about this topic, I'd like some more information on that," something that tells me that you're interested in the person, not just a guy with a title that you want in your network. Then once you connect, don't just pitch somebody. It's fascinating to me, you connect with somebody and within two seconds, it's, "We have this and you need it." I always respond with, "How do you know?" Then I disconnect.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
Back when I was in my 20s, I was extremely adventurous and bold which is what took me overseas and all those kinds of things. I would probably tell myself to be a little bit more cautious financially in terms of putting money away than I did in those years. But I wouldn't have cut back on any of the bold moves that I made that created my career.
We've all heard of the six degrees of separation. Who would be the one person that you'd love to connect with? And do you think you could do it within the sixth degree?
Unfortunately, the people I'd like to connect with most are no longer on the planet so it would be six feet, not six degrees. There's a guy Ian Brenner, who's with the Euro group, who I would love to have a conversation with. He's a brilliant expert in the global community. It would either be him or Marshall, Goldman, the author of What Got You Here Won't Get You There, one of the most influential books I read in my early career. I think I would just try to reach out directly to them and tell them why I want to connect.
What would be your final word of advice for our listeners about growing and supporting your network?
Make sure that you always lead with the idea of service and being kind and remove all of those detractors from your network so that you can really grow and be of value and get value from your network.
Connect with Andrew:
Check out Andrew’s Virtual Presenter Course at https://virtualpresentercourse.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-deutsch-2445936/
Website: https://fangledtech.com/
Meet Danielle
Danielle is the leading authority on the science behind caffeine and energy drinks, the best-selling author of How To Get Shit Done When You Feel Like Shit, the host of the Caffeine at Midnight podcast. As the founder of GEG Research and Consulting, she helps people who work long hours and use caffeine to get through the day. Green Eyed Guide (GEG) has helped workers, nurses, college students and small business owners beat burnout with caffeine science.
So you say you help people beat burnout with caffeine science. What does that mean?
Essentially, caffeine is the number one coping mechanism when it comes to stress or sleep deprivation. During the last survey that Forbes did, which was before Coronavirus, 67% of employed Americans said they struggled with burnout in the workplace. I imagine that it's more than 67% since Coronavirus, but that's the best number that we have. So essentially what this means is that people are using caffeine throughout the day to help them juggle all their roles and responsibility and there are certain situations where caffeine can actually backfire, it can actually make your mood worse and your anxiety worse and your sleep deprivation even worse. So what I do in my workshops is I go through my system called the five levels of fatigue. I teach people how to identify every level of fatigue and then we talk about the ways that you can beat or manage that particular level of fatigue with and without caffeine. Ultimately, what it's doing is it's teaching people how to drink caffeine strategically so that you get the benefits of caffeine like improved focus and improved mood, but you also know when not to have caffeine and that way you're not compounding that anxiety and that burnout that you have because you have that caffeine strategy. So it's a comprehensive plan that addresses the caffeine as well as you know, your physical and your mental health.
What's your favorite caffeine-related tip to share with the coffee drinkers listening right now?
Well, I am a huge dog lover and so I have something called the barks doggy law, which is really a law about moderation. Essentially, what happens in this barks doggy law is that if you're bored, or you're tired, one cute little doggie can come along and then your mood goes up a little bit. Then maybe another dog comes, another dog comes, another dog comes and then you're surrounded by like, 50 yapping dogs, and it's no longer cute, it's no longer improving your mood, and it's actually making your mood worse and is actually making it hard to focus. That's because performance improves to a point with increasing stimulation, and then you become overstimulated and your performance decreases. That's what happens when you have too much caffeine. So there's a sweet spot in this Barks doggy law and essentially, it is finding your sweet spot where your stimulation is just enough to improve your performance, but not enough so that you're overstimulated and it pushes you over the cliff. This is my favorite tip to give caffeine drinkers because the amount of caffeine that you might need to get you to that sweet spot might vary day to day based on what other stimulation you have in your environment. If it's a relatively low-key day, maybe one cup of coffee will do. But when shit hits the fan, you might need more caffeine, but you also need to make sure you don't fall off that cliff where it makes you even more frazzled. So that's my favorite tip, find your caffeine sweet spot by nursing your caffeine and being extra aware of how stimulated you feel.
How do you connect with your ideal clients?
It really does require me to be a chameleon, because it depends on who I'm talking to. I've learned this the hard way, if I'm talking to someone like an HR rep, they might not care so much about my background in biochemistry and food science, or how many years I spent studying caffeine. They want to know how they can keep their workers happy and safe and how can they keep them from quitting because that's all the stuff that's going to hurt their bottom line. So when I'm networking, I do the best I can to identify the pain points of the person who I'm talking to. My target audience is usually someone in operations or human resources, someone that has the power to book me for a workshop with their employees to walk them through the five levels of fatigue. Certain people want to know that I am a published author, and I've published research papers and I've got degrees in biochemistry, blah, blah, blah. Other people don't care and they want to know that I've been there on the manufacturing floor, that I've worked nightshift, they want to know that I can actually relate to what their day-to-day struggles are.
Can you share with our listeners your most successful or favorite networking experience that you've had?
So one of my most successful networking experiences was actually me stalking different food science groups on Instagram. I would go through Instagram and be like, "Oh, I see you have a speaker, did you know I also speak I speak about caffeine and energy drinks, could I be a speaker for your food science group? I've got quite a lot of gigs that way. But one of them in particular was actually with the California State University of Long Beach. California is my home state so I'm happy to have that type of connection. So stalking the Cal State University of Long Beach Food Science group connected me with a food science professor there and since that initial interaction on Instagram, I've done four guest lectures for her class and we've actually submitted research papers together. So she's one of my favorite connections, my favorite source of referrals and I just love working with her as a scientist. So I never would have met her if it wasn't for me reaching out to people on Instagram.
As you continue to build your network, how do you stay in front of and best nurture these relationships?
Well, it is a struggle. I find that I go too long without calling my grandma. So for a long time, I was looking for a system like, "How do I remember to call my friends and my clients and my customers and my own relatives?" So what I found is that Zendesk has an app called Cell and in it, you can load your contacts and you can load tasks and reminders. So that's probably been the most effective system I've found for helping me stay in front of my network and keep track of leads as well as keep track of previous clients as well as keep track of my best friends, who are great supporters of my work and supporters of me as a person. That app is kind of my go-to for staying in front of my network.
What advice would you offer that business professional is really looking to grow their network?
Not all networking groups are created equal. When I first got started, I joined a specific chamber of commerce organization, which had a very high fee to join. Every other week, they had breakfast meetings, and you were supposed to say who you've done one on ones with and what I found after a year of being in that group was I got zero leads, but I had 60 on ones. Because they put so much pressure on doing these one on ones with people that became the goal. So you ended up having a lot of disingenuous meetings that were just a waste of time or people that weren't trying to help you, they were just trying to turn you into a customer as opposed to a source of referrals. So I found another networking group that was free and already being part of them for like three months I've made $1,000 in book sales and workshops, and caffeine treat boxes. So it just goes to show you that the networking group that might work best for you might not be what works best for your friends. So look around and try something out and be wary of the ones that require a heavy fee upfront because that may or may not work for you.
If you could go back to your 20 year old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I would definitely tell my 20 year old self to go to a different college, study a different major, do a different thesis. But aside from those life changing decisions, I would just tell myself to do more speaking gigs and to get more pictures and testimonials. Essentially, I've been speaking about energy drinks since 2004, but I didn't take a lot of pictures, I didn't get a lot of quotes or testimonials. I could have used that to prove that I really have been doing this for decades. We didn't really have cell phones back then and energy drinks have changed a lot, and so has cellular technology. So I really wish I would have gotten more quotes or pictures or testimonials from all the speaking gigs that I did back then.
We've all heard of the six degrees of separation. Who would be the one person that you'd love to connect with and do you think you can do it within the sixth degree?
I would love to connect with Pierre Bouvier, who is the frontman for the band Simple Plan who are one of my favorite bands of all time. I would love to do a caffeine and fatigue workshop with musicians that have been through tours and endless road trips where it's exhausting and you've got to perform. They're drinking a lot of caffeine, there's caffeine everywhere. I would love to do a workshop with bands that I admire. I might be six degrees connected with Pierra, but that would be a dream come true.
Do you have any offer to share with our listeners?
So if your listeners enjoy drinking caffeine, then I have a free download, which is called the energy drink report card. This is by far my most popular download and what it is it's a PDF that has not just energy drinks, but also the top selling coffees like Starbucks doubleshot and also the top selling teas like Arizona iced tea or Honest Tea, different things that are ready to drink, not the not the type of keys that you brew in a cup or the type of coffees that you have to make in a machine. But where do the top selling energy drinks, coffees and teas fall on a scale of you can drink this every day versus avoid this at all costs. So in this download, you can see where the different things fall in a red, yellow or green category. So ultimately, this is showing you like how good or bad this is for your health. You can get the energy drink report card https://greeneyedguide.com/freebies/
Connect with Danielle
Email: info@greeneyedguide.com
Instagram: @greeneyedguide
Meet Ted
Ted is a Safety Operations Executive from Appleton, Wisconsin with a passion for people development. He has been in the construction industry for 20 years and has built multiple high-performance teams. Ted has a bachelor's degree from the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh and has been a CHST Board Certified safety professional since 2008. Ted was on the National Safety Council committee and Mobile Crane Safety and the past President of Fox Valley Safety Council and Wisconsin Tripartite Safety. He has been published in multiple research studies with CII Research Team 284 and the University of Alaska-Fairbanks on leading indicators. Ted adds value and mitigates risk to organizations by monitoring, mentoring, and developing high-performing teams through active leadership and innovative learning.
How long have you been in the safety world?
Well, I've been in health and safety for approximately 25 years. The majority of it's been in construction and as I've gone through the years, I kind of started out in the field, as that person learning about construction, because I really didn't know, I learned a lot of interesting stories, I should say while working with a lot of great construction people that kind of mentored me in health and safety. As I went through my career, I was fortunate enough to be able to go through and become a safety director and watch out for companies on the worker comp, make sure the training is done. So a lot of that type of stuff that I've done for the last 25 years, and I just am very passionate about keeping people safe and keeping families together.
How did you get into safety?
Well, I graduated from Oshkosh, as you were saying in the introduction, and I wanted to be a law enforcement officer. So I became a police officer and wanted to be the Barney Fife of the area if you will and it just wasn't the right fit for me. As I got out of law enforcement, I got a job as a safety consultant for a local safety company here in Appleton and I was learning all these different regulations, and I kind of found myself enjoying them, and being able to go into some of these companies and help them along the way. So just understanding safety and behaviors, how to work with people, but also I really enjoyed learning the business side of safety, which is also very crucial within organizations. So I think it was kind of a unique story, I started off in college on one path and didn't like that and found health and safety.
When did you decide to start Total Health and Safety then or why did you decide to start?
One of the reasons why I wanted to start Total Health and Safety was because I believe that there's a lot of companies out there right now, small to medium size, either manufacturing or construction companies that really don't necessarily have a safety person that they can rely on. A lot of times its human resources or somebody else that's filling in a little bit, but their main role is something else and I believe that we could come in at low overhead and be able to help companies grow their organization, and really get that return on the dollar for the services that were performed by keeping their worker comp down and more importantly, keeping their families together, and their employees happy at work.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking stories that you have?
Well, it's kind of funny, I think the one that I just had today was a good example. I met with a person several months ago, on a different networking thing and we were just chatting and we got to know each other a little bit more and more and I found out that his brother actually owns a construction company. Through all that, his brother came in here and I just got done talking to him for an hour or so about safety. So you just never know where any of those networking conversations are there. They are so important to a small company like ours to be able to go out there and talk to people and get to know about them.
How do you stay in front of or best nurture your community?
That's one question that I'm always kind of asking myself because it's tough. In a small business, as you know, and I'm sure a lot of listeners know, there are so many things that can distract you away from it. But I really find that there's such great return on networking, that you have to stick with it, and you have to stay honest with it because, as I said, you never know where it's gonna go and you want to make sure that you're making good quality connections that will last your lifetime.
What advice would you offer those business professionals looking to grow their network?
I think, one thing that I'm very passionate about is that any opportunities you have to network with people, even though you may not be in your area of expertise, that you still take advantage of those and grow from them. One thing that I've learned is to ask a lot of questions and ask for referrals when you're talking to those people because people want to help people, and with networking, that's what allows you to be able to keep on growing is because people want to help each other, you want to help other people they want to help you. So it can really become a very vital part of your business.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I think if I go back to my 20s, I think the first thing that I would probably do is start the business a little bit earlier. But also, I think, really learn networking, because that is so vital in whatever you do, especially for my business and just talking to people. Networking, to me, is everything vital to both relationships, and the business.
We've all heard of the six degrees of separation. Who would be the one person that you would love to connect with and do you think you could do it within the sixth degree?
I think if there was anybody that I could, it would probably be Scott Geller. He's a safety professional out of Virginia University who's done a lot of behavior-based safety so he'd probably be my choice. I would start it probably on LinkedIn and try to connect with him there. If I was successful there, then I would try to schedule something from there like a short chat just to get the norm a little bit. Hopefully, that will grow from there. If for some reason that didn't work, there's always this thing that a lot of people forget about, it's called the US mail. I think mailing somebody something and maybe not an envelope, maybe a box or something to make it a little bit unique and different to get their attention so they actually read what you sent them.
Do you have any final word or advice that you'd like to offer our listeners with regard to growing and supporting your network?
I think you've got to get out there and do it. Some people sometimes are a little nervous about meeting people and talking to people, but you have to realize people want to help people. Once you get to know somebody, they're going to bend over backward to help you so I think networking gives you that ability. Kind of like Lori was just saying about being able to reach out and have people in your back pocket to help you accomplish things. Also, just remember, you're giving them a good feeling when they're helping you too. So just get as involved as you can in networking. Network, network, network is what I always try to say!
Connect with Ted
Website: https://www.healthandsafetynow.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ted-carew
Email: ted.carew@healthandsafetynow.com">ted.carew@healthandsafetynow.com
Meet Sam
Sam has been an ERP thought leader in the digital transformation space for nearly two decades with a primary focus on financial systems and ERP. He has been part of large transformation initiatives for Fortune 500 corporations but now spends time consulting with SMEs as a principal consultant at ElevatIQ. Sam regularly speaks at industry conferences and contributes his experiences through many popular blogs and publications. He also hosts a podcast called WBSRocks.
Why are manufacturers not exploring these marketing opportunities right now?
When we look at the manufacturing landscape, especially if we talk about the SMB manufacturers, their business model, traditionally, if we look at the manufacturing supply chain, we had the manufacturer, we had the distributor, and we had the retailers. So just going back 20 or 30 years, manufacturers never had to worry about building their brand, because they had distributors who could actually sell for them. But now things are changing in the world, right? The skillset that they needed to develop, to be able to market, to be able to educate their distributors, they never had that. They were selling through distributors, they always had sort of the sales mindset, they had salespeople who were really good at talking about their products, but they never had to worry about marketing and that is the primary barrier, in my opinion, for manufacturers in understanding why they should worry about the marketing aspect and why they should pay attention to marketing to be able to create the opportunities they already have.
With that being one of the key barriers, what do you anticipate how this next phase of growth can happen and what can these SMB manufacturers do to get to the next stage?
I don't know whether you want to call this as next phase of growth, or the next phase of disruption. So there are some disruptions happening in the startup space, right. We have a lot of startups that are really good at marketing because they were never good at let's say the traditional manufacturing just because they had to compete with some of these established channels and their relationships. They had to figure out how to do the marketing because otherwise, they cannot compete with the traditional manufacturers. So disruption is happening in the startup space. Now, their products are going to be slightly more superior and the reason for that is because they are better at manufacturing as well. Just because they are utilizing the newer technologies, they are slightly more innovative. Looking at the traditional manufacture, they are going to face tremendous competition from these startups just because their products are going to be easier. They are going to build let's say the b2c channels which are going to be direct to consumers as opposed to going through the distribution channel. So manufacturers are going to face tons and tons of competition from these startups, plus, the lines are really blurring between your distribution and manufacturers just because some of the manufacturers are directly marketing to the consumers and the distributors, what they are trying to do is they are trying to develop their own in house capabilities to be able to develop these products. Now, they have competition from their own distributors, who were supposed to be their sales and marketing channel. So it's going to be a very interesting play overall and I think manufacturers need to think a lot more about what they can do to make sure their market share is protected.
How do you see the buyers and the decision-makers play into this?
Well, let's look at the buyer types depending upon the kind of products. If we are talking about some of the spaces such as food and beverage manufacturing, in that case, the buyers are going to be slightly smaller overall, in terms of their buying power because of the way they buy their product, and the dollar amount that they spend on a specific product is going to be far lower as well. But if you look at the b2b space and the industrial buyer space, the buyer there is going to be completely different, because the products that they are trying to buy are going to be slightly more sophisticated. They are going to spend a lot more time researching these products before they can talk to the salesperson. Again, going 20 years back, if any of the industrial buyers really wanted to buy the product, what they would do is they'll go with word of mouth. If they are already working with somebody, they'll ask them if they know someone who sells that product and these channels were already developed. But now, the way the buying cycle looks at this point in time in the manufacturing space is if anybody wants to buy anything, they are going to research on Google first. There is a saying that I think they performed roughly 80 clicks before they talk to any salesperson. So this is happening on Google so somebody needs to be selling this. So either you could be selling this, or your competitors can sell. So that's why the whole buyer mindset is changing, the buyer behavior is changing overall, from the marketing perspective for the manufacturers.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking stories that you've had?
I'm actually going to talk about some of the things that I have personally done pre-COVID, versus what I have done post-COVID. So before I wanted to really network, what I would do is, I would try to find some of the physical channels, and I did not post as much on LinkedIn. But now after COVID, what I'm really doing is I am posting a lot more on LinkedIn, just because when you have the follower accounts on LinkedIn, what happens is that is actually going to increase the visibility of your post which is going to increase the overall influence over LinkedIn that is going to help develop your personal brand. I am actually personally trusting a lot more on LinkedIn networking pos- COVID and I think that is going to continue overall, as we move along. So I don't know if I have any specific story from the networking perspective. So when I used to network, let's say if I go to my physical events, sometimes I used to be afraid when I was not comfortable talking about the subject. But now, after I mastered whatever I want to speak about, then typically, I am very confident.
How do you stay in front of our best nurture your network or your community?
The best way to nurture for me would be how I can stay on top of my buyers’ minds is how I like to define. So these are going to be either buyer, or these are going to be the people who are hanging out with my buyers. So there are multiple channels that I typically like to follow. It could be from the social media perspective. So as I mentioned, the only reason why we are doing LinkedIn is because that actually gets us in front of the buyers. They are always seeing that I'm always present on LinkedIn. We don't necessarily get a lot of leads from LinkedIn directly, but that actually helps in creating this brand presence that people are calling us and that actually helps overall in strengthening the brand and also in terms of visibility.
What advice would you offer the business professional who's looking to grow their network?
The advice I'm going to offer is number one, you need to be super comprehensive in your strategy. So you cannot rely just on one channel. Identify which channel is the right suited for your audience. Sometimes what people do is they will simply go for either LinkedIn or Twitter or let's say Instagram, but they don't really know where their buyers are hanging out. So understanding where your buyers are, figure that out, and then figure out what kind of message they are going to understand and then understand the nuances of the platform as well. Those three are going to be equally applicable in terms of actually creating the posts on LinkedIn. That does not mean that everybody's seeing your post and you are investing your time in the right direction. Sometimes your best angle could be just the cold calling. Just because you might have let's say five buyers in the market, if you are approaching the masses and if you are targeting a lot of people, then you need to figure out how to how to approach each customer and each message as well.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I did not respect inbound marketing at all to be honest, because the space that I'm in has very expensive purchases. So we used to be very outbound very sales focused, and one of the misconception or misunderstanding I had, and I still argue with a lot of marketers, what we used to tell them is, "I'm cold calling my CFOs on a daily basis and they are not really listening to me," so I know who is going to buy for me, I'm already in touch with them and they are not really talking to me. But you are telling me that this is the same CFO who's not talking to me over the phone, this CFO is going to come to my website and will read my content and then going to ask me to show my product, which did not make a lot of sense. So after COVID, what happened is everything changed, because we are not getting as much result from our outbound efforts. So we had to find ways to be successful in the market. We started doing a lot more content, just because we had time. Now when I talk to my customer, the whole perception changed. It was the same pace that I was doing in the album scenario, but now they want to trust me, just because they know my brand. So if I were to go 20 years back, one of the things that I would do is I would start from marketing, and I would take a marketing-driven approach, and I would take a community-driven approach, as opposed to a sales-driven approach.
Do you have any final words of advice to offer listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
The only thing I would say is just to figure out how to be a thought leader in your space. I know that this term gets thrown around a lot, the best way to be a thought leader is just open up yourself, go out there and talk about whatever you know. It could be a very small thing or it could be a big thing. Just open up and either start a blog, podcast, YouTube channel, whatever! Just open up yourself, be transparent, and put your content out there. Trust me, people will trust you.
Connect with Sam
Check out Sam’s podcast! https://wbs.rocks/
Visit Sam’s website: https://www.elevatiq.com/
Sam’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samguptausa/
Meet Matan
Matan is the founder of Fit Hit, an Inc. 5000 fastest growing company in the US. As a former special-ops Krav Maga Warfare Officer, and after training 1000s of special ops pro athletes World Champs and regular folks, Matan recognized that empowerment to training is key to success, not just in violent situations, but in general. Fit Hit helps people tap into their potential, develop a healthy lifestyle, increase mental fortitude, and learn how to handle themselves.
What would you say to entrepreneurs who simply can't find the time to invest in their own well-being?
That's a great question. A lot of my students are entrepreneurs and high-level managers, creators, people that rely on their creativity to succeed. So we actually have a little in-house joke that we say and it's called more abs, more money! We're basically connecting your personal well-being and fitness level, to your levels of income and how much money you make. Now, most people can't see the direct line between the two. But I can tell you, there have been several researchers on the subject that have looked at over 1500 CEOs, and what they found was that CEOs that take the time to train, hold themselves up to higher standards when it comes to their nutrition level and their well being overall tend to have more successful companies, better returns to their investments, and more profit. It's not that hard to figure out why right? It's because really, how you do anything is how you do everything. So when you start putting your own well-being as not as important as something else, you don't actually show up in their business as the best version of yourself. If you're an entrepreneur, your capacity to create is what's gonna make or break you, how much drive do you have? Do you think that you'll be able to do more when your health is on point when you have energy that lasts through the entire day, and you're not bogged down by 6 pm or 7 pm, when you just bounce out of bed right in the morning, right? Because your body can carry you like that and you're gonna spending the first 30-45 minutes doing morning scrolling in your bed because you don't have the energy to get up. So what we tell entrepreneurs is that if they're not putting their own physical well-being first, their business is taking the hit, not just their own physic. I recommend to a lot of entrepreneurs to do it that once you get into the process of actually taking care of your body and being aware of what your fat percentage is and so on, I've actually mapped out my fat percentage put it in a graph over time because I keep track of it and my bank account, and what I've noticed is that the two moves kind of like in the same pattern. When I'm at my fittest, my company does really well and if I let go, I can see the changes in the company. If I can show for myself, that means that I can also show up for my business and for my employees. But if I don't even show up for myself, are you really giving the people who depend on you, your team, your staff, the best version of you, or a run-down version of you?
What can entrepreneurs do to beat the stress eating and some of these other bad habits that we've all picked up over the last year?
I can tell you that one of the reasons that so many have gained weight during COVID, and I'm looking at entrepreneurs, specifically, is that we are a breed that is driven by control. We have our own business because for better or worse, we like to control the outcome of things. Some are more successful than others, but even when you talk to people that are not that successful in business, and they're business owners, they'll tell you, I'd rather be here than get a job, right? They like the ability to control their successes and even if they fail, it’s still something that keeps them motivated keeps them going and they're very much connected to it. Then COVID happens and what happened when COVID happened is we lost a significant amount of control of what we can do in our lives. So in the first few months of COVID, with lockdowns, and all this other stuff, if you are any type of retail business, you couldn't operate it all, the way that you used to. We lost control of who we can meet, we lost control of where we can go we lost control of our late we can stay at night, whether I can get food from this place or that place. What happens to people when they lose control? What happens to anybody that loses control? There are direct emotions that go right with it like anger, sadness, and fear which are all the result of loss of control. So what we've seen, because we interview everybody that trained with us, is that when people lost control of things, it made it easy for them to just give up control on everything else, even on things that could be under their control. So even though you have full control of your nutrition because you lost control over everything else, it feels comfortable to just flush down to drain your habits, and then you talk to people. Now for entrepreneurs, if you are sad, and afraid, anxious, and angry, that doesn't work for the business, you have to mitigate those emotions if you're going to show up for the business. So what I recommend to entrepreneurs that are finding themselves in this emotional roller coaster that 2020 has brought in is that anytime there is a lack of control, which is to become very aggressive with taking control where you can. There are actually four aspects that every entrepreneur must take control of all the time. The first one is nutrition. What you put in your body has a huge effect on how you feel and if you're not feeling at your best, you're not gonna show up as your best, you're not going to have the best ideas, you're not going to have the best execution and you're not going to have the energy. So where most people basically turned to junk food and fast food, alcohol, we recommended to our community to go even more hardcore on clean nutrition during this time. You're not going to find comfort in bad food because that just leads to a whole other can of worms with your body and your mind. So the first thing that you want to control these your nutrition, the second thing you want to control is your fitness level. Now gyms got closed down. So what? "Well, if the gym is closed, I can't do anything." No, there was a lot that you can do. You can train at home, you can train outside, you can be active, there are a million things that you can do. But you have to first admit to yourself that you need to take control of your physical fitness. When you do that, you're already starting to make movement in the right direction. Then the third thing is that this is an opportunity for you to gain control of your knowledge base. So you can spend the time just aimlessly scrolling and getting angry at everything that's happening in this country, or you can start seeking out advantages. Seek out the knowledge that would make you better at what you are, that will inspire you, that will move you forward. Then the fourth element is I always recommend people to also take control of hobbies of things that are not directly related to their business and just grow in other directions. So when you force yourself to take control of these things that you can, you are no longer a victim to those horrible emotions that come with the initial loss of control because you continue having control over the things that you can. So your nutrition can be up to par you don't have to go to junk food and alcohol, you don't have to sit on your sofa all day even in lockdown, right? You don't have to be immobile just because the gym shut down. There are options, take control over that! You don't have to be a mindless zombie even though all your friends may be mindless zombies right now, and people around you are mindless zombies right now. If you take this time to get better, create better offerings, become more professional, find a new market, find a new niche, the whole experience of loss of control becomes way easier.
How did you take Krav Maga, this kind of aggressive approach, and make it something that is accessible to women?
That was the challenge when I set out to create Fit Hit. I come from the military world and when I started training, my clients were for the most part, within that world. Police officers, security companies, special ops, and government agencies, were the clients. But when I was in New York, even within the very first year, I started getting more familiar with violence against women, and how prevalent it is in the United States. It was much worse than I thought it would be, like one in every six women is going to get sexually assaulted in her lifetime. That's like one roll of the dice. You start talking to women, and everybody either has been assaulted or knows somebody that has been assaulted. I was just thinking to myself that I have all this knowledge and I have this skill set that is completely transferable. The beauty of Krav Maga is that you don't have to be the strongest person to be able to do it, they're teaching it to kids straight out of high school in the military because that's what Israel is. So how do you turn these 18-19-year-old kids to be very efficient with a striking, you have to give them a system that is not reliant on size or strength. So if you give women a system to defend themselves, not relying on size and strength, you're actually giving them a power that they can then use to not be a part of that horrible statistic that just kept creeping up. So for me to be able to create an environment to attract these women, I couldn't just come out and say, "Hey, ladies, I'm about to teach you the most aggressive self-defense system in the world, it's only being taught at special ops and law enforcement these days, so let's go," because most women, right off the bat, are not attracted to that concept. I know it because that's how I started, that was my first Google ad! I created a great school for Krav Maga, but women were only maybe 15% or 20%. From day one, I wanted to attract women, but I just didn't know what was the right message, what was the right way to put it all together. But I knew what problem I wanted to solve in the world and it was the problem of victimization especially for women because there was nothing like that. So most women, even though the solutions are out there just don't do that. So I had to bend their reality in order to make it happen and the way that I did that is that I didn't come out with so we create a new product. It is an upscale fitness experience that has nutrition built in, community, mental fortitude, it is one of the most beautiful spaces you would ever go into in New York City right now. We put on music and lights, and we build a whole fashion line to go along with it and we put females in the forefront of it so the women that are teaching the classes are all these badass women and they're also beautiful and feminine at the same time. But they're also very strong and very accomplished, very powerful, and they have conviction in what they do. We put all of that together and on the way, you're going to learn a little Krav Maga! We didn't lead with Krav Maga, we lead with, “You’re going to lose 25 pounds, let me show you how.” That became the draw for the female population and the beauty of it is that it didn't take long because women fell in love with this type of training. See, the problem was it's not that this training is not for women, it's just that women have been falsely convinced over the years that they're not supposed to be a fighter, they're not supposed to be aggressive, they're not supposed to say no and are not supposed to hit back, and all it takes is one hour for us to break all of that. What we did is we created these human-like punching bags so instead of hitting other people, they're hitting a thing that looks like a person. Within like 10 seconds, they feel that they have an impact behind her punches. Fighting is in our DNA, fighting is not a male or female thing, it's literally in everybody's DNA. It's part of our survival mechanism, but because we don't need to survive that much these days it just stays dormant. So all we did is we gave a more attractive offer and then when we exposed women to what we knew that they would in their core being would be attracted to you because we all have an aggressive side. No matter how quiet it is, no matter how silent it is, no matter how many years other people have tried to squash it, it's there. The end results are instantaneous, we probably have the highest retention rate of any gym in the country, because once they try it, they don't want to go sit on a bicycle to nowhere! What if you even burn more calories, but you also learn some new skills your body moves in us in a different way and when you leave the class, that information stays with you? You leave the class you go out into an NYC street and some guy looks at you weird. You're no longer paralyzed, which was the case for most women before they started this training.
Can you share with our listeners one of your favorite networking stories that you've had?
This was a long time ago when I didn't even have a location yet, I was just like a hired gun and I would just be hired to train for certain things. I wanted to open up a facility so I was looking for investors, partners, anything that can give me a leg up. So I was talking to somebody who is a poker player and she just mentioned she knew I was looking for investors and that there was this illegal poker game that was going to happen that night at some random location in New York City. She gave me the name of one person to look for and if I got him on your side, he will find you. So I was like, "Okay, great," and I to my girlfriend I was like, "Hey, listen, dear, we are going to an illegal poker game, I've never played poker in my life, I don't know how to play, we are just going to be social and nice and see what's what." We get to this building and there's this guard, his security guard standing out there and he's like, "Can I help you?" I told him I was here for the game, he asked for my name, and when I told him my name he said I wasn't on the list. Then I give him that one guy's name and they let me in. So we go in there and there's like, this social gathering, which was very small with everybody sitting around the poker table. We're just sitting like a sofa and I don't know who that person is that I'm looking for, but I figured by being there, I'll be able to see what's going on. So for like, 30 minutes, I'm just sitting there, not even talking to anybody. Then at some point, this guy raises his head and he's like, "Hey, you're Matan?" I said yeah and he was like "Oh yeah, this woman told me that you're gonna be here. Hey guys, this is Matan, he's like the baddest Krav Maga fighter ever so if anybody wants to train, we'd like a super commando guy, that's your guy!" I was like, "Great, man I thought you and I will be able to talk later on," and he's like, "No, I don't have any time for that, but thanks for coming." But then there was another guy at that table and he was like, "Oh, you teach Krav Maga, give me your card, I'm doing this charity event if you want to donate a couple of classes that might open you up." That little social gathering and social conversation that guy didn't just put me in this huge charity event that gave me huge exposure and huge opportunity to go over it, he became my client. Later on, he also became my first investor. So just taking advantage of the fact that I could get into a room with a bunch of people, be able to get the conversation even though the original guy that I came there for, didn't even want to have a conversation with me. Just being exposed to other people that could make a difference in your life got me, my first investor. From there, it was pretty easy to open up my first location.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I would say if I could go back to my 20s, I would work way harder on getting access to mentors, and getting mentorship from people who have walked the walk. The interesting thing is that super-successful entrepreneurs are more likely to take on a younger person to mentor than an older person or mentor because there's a certain sense of pride when you take somebody who doesn't know much and you start giving them tools and then they go out and kill it. I started looking for mentorship way later in life. I was in my mid-30s and I ended up paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to get the mentorship and it always paid back and dividends. Paying for mentorship is great, but when you're super young, a lot of times you have access that you don't even know that you have just because you're young, you're hungry, and you're ambitious, and you don't have all the answers and nobody expects you to have all the answers. So I would say if anybody is that super early age, work on connecting with mentors. You never know when you're going to run into them so you have to make yourself available to run into these people. I would tell myself and there anybody that may be in the position that I was is you want to recognize success when you see it early and get close to it because it gives you shortcuts. It can save you years of trial and error, not to mention money.
We've all heard of the six degrees of separation. Who would be the one person that you'd love to connect with and do you think you can do it within the sixth degree?
I would say a person that I've been completely fascinated with over the past five years, Elan Musk. He doesn't build businesses, he creates industries. Most people would be lucky to be very successful in just one aspect, but he seems to innovate in completely different industries. I heard him say something and I think as an entrepreneur you need to hear it. There are two things that he said that really stuck with me and I'm happy that he said it because it makes a lot of the emotions that you may feel as an entrepreneur and during hard times, that's really kind of find their place. He said, "Being asked for nor is like chewing glass and staring into the abyss: You have to be prepared for long periods of difficulty before you make it on the other side," and then the second thing that he said which was in reply, somebody asked him, "What can you tell young entrepreneurs that need to be motivated?" He said, "If you need somebody to motivate, you should probably not want to be an entrepreneur." I just love the idea that you have to find the motivation from within all the time as an entrepreneur. There's not going to be anybody there, that's going to push you to be the best that you can be in your business unless you hire them to do it. But our voice will always tell them to look deeper, listen to that part of you wants to push forward. So I would say that without a doubt if I had stronger social skills and networking skills than I do, that would push hard to get on the circle with Elon Musk.
Connect with Matan
Instagram: @matansmethod
Website: https://fithit.com/
Meet LeTeisha
LeTeisha was born in Richmond, Virginia, she graduated from John F. Kennedy High School in 1994. She is a serial entrepreneur and has been self-employed for over 17 years. LeTeisha uses her life experiences to motivate and to find ways to help others. She's the Founder and CEO of A Better Day Than Yesterday Initiative Program, where they help families rebuild their relationships during and after incarceration, divorce, and deployment. She specializes in re-entry and family reunification.
How did you get started in the work that you do?
I was invited to a five-day event to speak on a panel for entrepreneurs about entrepreneurship and it was a Father's Day event. On that panel, it was me, other invites, government agencies, and returning citizens. So the guy asked me, "How do you rebuild a relationship with someone that's been incarcerated?" When he asked me that, it took everything out of me. On that ride home, God said, that's your purpose because two weeks prior to that I asked him, "What is my purpose? What am I here?" I know I'm here to be an entrepreneur, I know I'm here to help people, but I'm not being fulfilled, I'm not feeling successful in any of it. After that event, he let me know that was it because my dad and I weren’t talking at the time and he had been home at that point for 16 years. We had a terrible disconnect when he came home, trying to rebuild our relationship. So that's how I got started and I've been affected by incarceration since I was five years old so it actually started way before I realized I was here for this purpose.
What keeps you motivated to keep doing what you're doing?
I know there's a need for it and I'm surrounded by it. My son just came home which made it more personal other than my father, my brother, my aunt, my uncle, and my mother. So my son came on July 13, 2020, last year during a pandemic, and he was incarcerated for 18 months. Just being around the kids that are in our programs, and how they talk about their relationship with their father or their mother who are incarcerated, it touches your heart. So, you know you have work to do, and you just have to keep doing it so I just feel that this is what I want to do for the rest of my life.
Do you work with the families that are anticipating the re-entry on how to best prepare, or what does that relationship look like?
So the idea of it is to get with the family before the person is actually going to be serving the time so that we can navigate the family through the system throughout their journey. Before the pandemic we were going into the institutions, bringing awareness to the unintentional victim, and the father wound. So now during the pandemic and we're reconstructing our program, we're waiting right now on IRB approval for a study to do on six families to help them navigate after incarceration, how to start rebuilding that relationship and that's the 12-week program. During that pro 12 week program, they were there in life skill every week. Every Monday they will do a debriefing with a social worker and an intern, and then every four weeks, they will do a family engagement activity. Then on the 12th week, they will do a weekend retreat from Friday to that Sunday. So right now, this is the first time we're ever doing the family as a whole because before we were doing it as pieces, like we were talking to the parent and do something with the parent, but it would not be their child that's in the program. So now we're doing it while we're selecting the whole family that was affected to participate in this 12-week program.
How many years has it been since you started this work, and does your program serve across the US, or mainly locally?
This is the fourth year now. You have to find your niche, but when it all boils down to I never strayed away from the point of the family. The only thing that we added on that just became part of our initiative is called Operation Freedom Package which is open to anyone that's been incarcerated, regardless of conviction other than sex offenders. Now that we are going virtually we're able to assist all across the world. That's the best part about it, because we were just limited to Virginia and now we have a family in Delaware, and we have that Father’s house in Petersburg. So I can't wait to make that connection when visitation opens back up and we're able to make that connection happen between the children and their parents.
Can you share with our listeners some of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
One of my favorite networking experiences was when I was looking for a motivational speaker to speak for our Build a Dad workshop and it was through word of mouth and I was meeting everybody on the phone. Just so happen I came across this guy named Vincent White, and he was busy that weekend that we were having the event. I had met the guy that gave me Vincent's number at a networking event, and I just so happened to talk to Vince and he gave me another person's number whose name was Mr. White and his wife actually sent him the flyer earlier that day and asked him if he knew me and he was like, "No, I don't know anything about it," So when I called him, I had known that his wife had forwarded him that flyer and he said, "Hey my wife just showed me your flyer," and then we laughed about it and we and he's been my mentor to this day.
How do you stay in front of and nurture the relationships you have created?
So I attend networking events, virtually or in-person by just keeping people in the loop of what I'm doing, forming groups where we can share our information on what we're doing so that we can stay connected. Also, just by partnering and doing events and things, which helps to keep the relationship going, especially if they have turned out good events and everybody's taking a group interest in what we're doing and growing their business as well as mine.
What advice would you offer that business professional is really looking to grow their network?
I would suggest they join different networking groups, social groups. Then somebody is dependent on what that professional is, there's always a Facebook group, there's always a group that's going to be doing free workshops that you find on Eventbrite. You can always look for hashtags to find a networking group in your city or state. I just think, drawing in different groups is what helped me and then once I started joining these different groups, I got to see what type of person I needed to connect with, and then I got to know who to connect with.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I would say that I would have wanted to party more! I mean, I party, don't get me wrong. I would just say, I am glad that I did party when I did, I'm glad I had my kids when I did because now I have grown a lot more and I'm more mature and more focused now. So back then, when you're growing up without guidance, and if you're not that focused person, you will tend to not think about the things you should think about and I'm glad it happened how it happened, and I'm glad it's happening now. Because now my kids are grown and now I'm able to put my focus on my mission and I'm happy about the journey. So I really wouldn't change anything, I just think I would have partied a bit more!
Connect with Lateisha
A Better Day Than Yesterday’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/abetterdaythanyesterday
Instagram: @abetterdaythanyesterday
Website: https://www.abetterdayassoc.org/
LeTeisha’s email: abetterdayassoc@gmail.com
Meet David
David launched his first web business in the year 2000 and his first podcast in 2006. Since then, he's worked on the agency side as a Head of SEO, in-house as Head of Digital Marketing, and for a trading company as a Digital Marketing Course Producer. He's built his own podcast, Digital Marketing Radio up to 20,000 downloads a month, and in 2019 he founded his own podcast production agency for b2b brands called Casting Cred. You can find David over at castingcred.com!
So you were way ahead of the whole podcasting trend, weren't you?
I was! It was only a bit of fun for me back then around 2006 or so. I published a few shows then and got quite a few listeners and didn't really think too much of it. I just thought of it as a bit of fun rather than actually a serious marketing channel, which I probably should have done.
What mistakes do you see big brands making with their podcasts in 2021?
Oh, there are a lot of big mistakes. There's just horrific quality that you actually hear. There's just not a lot of thought that goes into podcasts by many b2b brands. I compare it back to how brands used to actually think of their websites back in about 2004, 2005, 2006 because back then, brands used to get the intern or a junior person within the business to design the website for their brand and this is a multi-million dollar brand you're talking about here. They just didn't appreciate that digital presence can actually relate to how your brand is perceived in its entirety and actually switch people off from using that brand. So as I said, back then, about 15 years ago or so, brands used to get these lowly paid people to design their websites for them and think nothing for it and the senior people didn't even look at the websites. Exactly the same thing is happening with podcasts nowadays, in 2021. Even in the upcoming years, what brands are doing is they're getting these people who are interested in podcasts, junior in the business, but probably don't know that much about producing professional quality audio, probably don't know that much about brand identity, what needs to be said, what doesn't need to be said to produce the shows in their behalf and they're producing amateurish sounding shows. These reflect how their audience perceived these brands and it's just not a good idea.
What are some of the equipment that you recommend for podcasting?
Sure, and for many big brands out there this probably the biggest mistake, to begin with, is that they just go with the microphone that they've already got kicking around the office or in someone's home. In general, if a business does webinars, then they've got a big condenser microphone sitting in front of them in the middle of a boardroom table and a condenser microphone is good in that it picks up the full frequency of a human voice. However, it also picks up everything else that's going on around the room. It picks up the air conditioner unit, it picks up a computer fan noise, it picks up someone shutting the door two rooms away from where you are it's not an ideal microphone to use for a podcast. Condenser microphones are wonderful if you're in a professional studio environment if you really have a decent soundproof room that you're operating in. Otherwise, I highly recommend the use of a dynamic microphone. So a dynamic microphone is less sensitive and it means that it needs to be closer to your mouth, it needs to be roughly three or four inches away from your mouth and 45 degrees away from your mouth so you're speaking over it just to get the best quality from that microphone. But if you do that is not gonna pick up all the rest of the noise from around the room. So then the question after that becomes, okay, what type of dynamic microphone that you use? There are very few dynamic microphones available that have both what's called an XLR and a USB out. So if you are looking for your dynamic microphone to easily connect to your computer, you're looking for a USB out from the dynamic microphone. So if that's the case, then you're looking for either a Samsung Q2U or an Audio-Technica ATR-2100x. So those are the two main microphones, there are a couple of small up-and-coming brands that are just in the process of launching similar microphones. But those are the two main microphones that I would highly recommend. In addition to that, you need a windscreen. So something to go on top of the microphone to stop sudden bursts of air going into the microphone just to make your sound a little bit more pleasant for the user and you want a boom arm. So something to hold the microphone right next to your face, rather than actually you having to duck down, or have the microphone too far away from your mouth.
Let's switch a little bit here to talk about the six steps of publishing a podcast to publishing a book. So I'm really curious about what you've got to say about this?
So several times, I've been crazy enough to host an eight-hour live stream, and have 100 plus guests on there at the same time, and a lot of other people say, "Well, how on earth do you do that? Do you think I should do something similar for my brand?" And my immediate answer is no! You don't want to do that, it's just too much hassle. Another reason that I say no, is that it's actually too difficult or you're juggling too many balls when you haven't done audio podcasting, videos, live streaming, and steps like that beforehand. You really want to work up towards being able to host multiple people at the same time, be on there for a very long time, look into the camera, or deal with the audience at the same time. So I recommend working up towards doing that. And obviously, you talked about publishing a book. So one of the last big live streams I did I published a book, as a result of doing that. I figured out having an eight-hour live stream, you end up being able to produce roughly 60,000 words of transcripts, and then you can turn that into a book. It's just about as much work turning out a 60,000-word transcript into a book by rewriting it because obviously, people don't write in the same way that they actually articulate things verbally. So it's not necessarily easier, but it's just a path that is a relatively slightly more convenient way to publish a book. But in terms of the steps towards doing that, I highly recommend starting off with an audio-only podcast and starting off with a fairly basic podcast equipment-wise using the microphones that are recommended. Then when you're started, focus on the audio podcast, get comfortable with using the microphone, get comfortable with what your show structure is going to be like, and then you'll hone that naturally over the first 10 to 20 episodes or so. Then when you get comfortable with doing that, you can start to do things like you do Lori, which is to record the whole show as a one-off, have your intro, have your outro, have your midsection recorded as part of the whole show. That way, you're doing less editing afterward so it's easier to produce. You don't have much editing to do afterward at all. Then move on to video after that, and move on to pre-recorded video. Don't do live video straight away if you're doing your show, do it pre-recorded so you don't have to think of an audience and if you make mistakes, you can restart and you don't get so nervous in front of guests. Step four is live streaming while you record a podcast. The whole additional challenging element to that is, of course, the audience. If you've got people watching live, if you've got questions coming in. Ideally, you can listen to what the person that you're interviewing is saying, but at the same time, see what the audience is saying. Bring their questions into the mix at the appropriate time, engage with him at the same time, or perhaps even type back to them at the same time. You don't want to be doing that if you're not comfortable using a microphone, if you're not comfortable with podcasting, or if you're not comfortable even with looking into the camera, to begin with just to do the intros and the outros and to acknowledge people at the very beginning of your video. Then simply you get to that big summit that I was talking about, that's like 12 live streams all in one take. So once you're comfortable with the live streams, it's bringing everything together, it's doing it for a longer time, it's having 100 plus guests involved in a single project. So it's just a case of making those relationships which is obviously what this show is all about and the wonderful thing about doing a podcast, apart from the fact that you get people listening to your content is the quality of the relationships that you make with the guests that you end up talking to. You can ideally maintain those relationships by doing things like hosting a virtual summit and getting people back on with you perhaps on an annual basis.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had?
I think networking is all about the quality rather than the quantity. You can talk about some articles that have been written like 1000 True Fans by Kevin Kelly, and similar advice has been shared by Seth Godin. If you get to that number of people that engage with you and like your content on a regular basis, then you're going to be successful. But in my experience, the number is even less if you put in the effort to really ensure that the relationships that you build are of high quality. That's why I love podcasting because it's such a wonderful way to build a relationship, to begin with, and then it gives you that opportunity to maintain the relationship because if you go to networking events, I know we're talking in COVID times it's a little bit more challenging to meet face to face, and perhaps even meet new people. But if you imagine a conventional face-to-face networking event, you'd do really well to have five minutes uninterrupted with anyone. It's challenging sometimes just to discover what someone else does, and make them aware of what you do, and then remember them afterward and then get back to them and really build any kind of meaningful relationship. The internet, podcasting, or just online discussions that aren't even necessarily broadcasted online give us a wonderful opportunity to have a higher quality conversation or lengthier conversation. So I think if you can aim to have 10 of those conversations a month on a regular basis, and then maintain the relationships with people that you think would be beneficial to you and your business in the future and you could be beneficial to them, then that would be probably a wonderful use of podcasting as a wonderful way to network and build maintain those relationships.
How do you best nurture your network and stay in front of these individuals?
I used to think in the past that what you had to do was published on a regular basis. But to a certain degree, that's just one-way communication so it's good to try and maintain those relationships. I've been very fortunate to as well as host bowl and podcast, host podcasts for other people, and produce podcasts for other people so it gives me a reason to get back in contact with these people. So the people that have been probably the best guests or the people that have been the most valuable in terms of potential relationships have been the ones that I've kept in touch with. I think initially going back to about 2015 when I did my first big online live stream, and I had about 60 people join me for that one. I just went back into people who have been guests before and I viewed it as a great piece of content to produce. But then thinking about it afterward, I suddenly realized it's not about the content, it's about relationships, it's about the network, it's about maintaining that. So that's why I try and do an annual basis, I give myself a reason to get back in touch with people and I encourage people to do the same. To think of a reason to reach back to who you've had conversations with in the past, and help them. So not necessarily even to produce something of value to what you're trying to do, but just to see if there's anything else you can do to assist them. I think you need to be really aware of what they're currently doing, and maybe suggests something specific that you could do to help them or a reason to have a follow-up conversation. I liken that to messages that I receive on LinkedIn, and probably 1 in 50, I reckon have actually really looked at me and my business and what I do, and crafted message based on that. The messages that I get saying something like, "Oh, it would be great to find out more about Casting Cred and what you do, shall we arrange a call?" No, I ignore those messages because it's so blatantly obvious that they've just taken my company name from some automatic script and added it to a standard intro message. I'm not interested in having a conversation if you haven't taken the opportunity to check out what I do. Check out what I do and demonstrate that you've actually looked at what I do and then we'll have a conversation.
What advice would you offer that business professional who's really looking to grow their network?
It doesn't happen overnight so you've got to accept that it's a long-term game. It's easy to reach out to people and get disappointed if they don't engage with you, but have you actually published anything and demonstrated that you are likely to be of genuine interest to the person that you're trying to reach out to? I go back to podcasting because I'm a podcaster and I think podcasting is a wonderful way to do it. I would quite often publish a podcast based upon the quality of conversations that I have with someone and be willing to publish a podcast, even if it didn't have any listeners, because of the quality of conversations that I'm having with people. I know people that I'm interviewing wouldn't necessarily be happy to have the conversation published to no one, but I think that's a good way to approach podcasting. I would encourage anyone listening to consider starting a webinar series or a podcast or some kind of content series that gives them an opportunity or reason to reach out to people. Maybe an initial starting point even before that is a blog because most people have a blog associated with a website. Put together an article about a particular topic and ask 10 moderately successful people within certain niches about their opinion on the particular subject. I say moderately successful because you're never likely to get someone like, let's give Seth Gordon as an example to actually contribute. But if you have someone who's moderately successful in a very niche industry, then they're really happy to contribute. So you can probably get 10 people to contribute to blog posts, you don't even have to speak to them, you can have a contact form for them to fill in and share their advice. Then you can promote what they do afterward, you can connect with them on LinkedIn, you can maintain that relationship. That's probably a great starting point to building a decent network.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more of us have or differently with regards to your professional career?
It's very easy to look back with hindsight saying you should do this, you shouldn't do this. I've done lots of different jobs in my time. I'm in my 40s now so I was probably too old to just work in digital marketing or in the digital world. So as a first career, I actually managed restaurants and pubs, and hotels. It was a great experience to have because as a 20-year-old I was managing teams of people. So I got great managerial experience to do that. Perhaps maybe I treated life a little bit too seriously. I would say just to relax a little bit as well and try more things. I think that back then I felt that you had to try and have a career and I think that I grew up as part of the generation that was still told you go through school, you try to go through university, and then you try to get yourself a profession, and you stay with that profession for life. Life's not really like that nowadays. I would certainly tell myself to try different things, don't take life too seriously, work hard, but also play hard at the same time.
Any final word of advice to offer our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
Success and building a big network is really a long time coming. Don't measure what you're doing with short-term measurements, like how many followers have I gained in the last week or a month or even year? It's all about the quality of relationships that you make 10 years down the line. So if you're not bothered by time, what would you do differently now if you knew that the numbers don't matter and it's all about quality?
Connect with David
David’s website: https://castingcred.com/
David’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidbain/
Meet Gina
Gina is a leader in the women in sales movement. Gina's career in sales started very early in life when she would pitch your parents on important issues like her version of how grandma's vase ended up on the floor in a million pieces! She would routinely beat out her competition (aka her six siblings) for best storytelling in a dramatic role. Throughout her 20 plus years in sales and marketing in the US, Europe, and emerging economies, Gina has continued to employ those same storytelling skills in selling and other persuasive arguments.
So talking about women in general, what are some of the things that you think are holding back women from getting into leadership positions?
Well, it's not for lack of trying and it's not even for lack of perceived opportunities on the part of the companies. Many well-meaning corporations want to bring women up through leadership, and really give them opportunities. What they are kind of unaware of is that they're still environmental issues and cultural issues within companies that don't promote the same kind of allegiance to opportunities. For instance, there's like this disconnect, companies will tell me that they want to elevate women into leadership, but the women just don't speak up in meetings, they don't share their ideas. So it's hard to get sponsorship opportunities for them to give them big promotions and things. Whereas the women will tell you that they don't feel heard or seen, or they try to speak up in meetings, and they try to share their ideas and they get blank stares and then Bob will say the same thing five minutes ago and they're like, "Oh, yeah, way to go, Bob!" My apologies to all Bob's listening, that's just the name I use. It's just these kinds of underlying cultural anomalies that happen, and they keep women from actually feeling like they are heard and seen. It's really a problem because it stops them from asking for what they want, asking for the positions they want, or letting their employers know that they want those positions. Whereas a guy will say, "I am going after that VP role," and he will make it known to everybody that he wants it. So that's where the disconnect is. Companies feel like they're giving opportunities to women, and they're not taking them, but women don't feel the same way. They don't feel that they are given the same visibility and the same opportunities to share ideas and that's really holding women back.
Let's talk about actions that can be taken to help women in the workplace. How can women help themselves achieve their career goals?
Well, there's a lot of things and this is where it sounds easy, right? So if you're not getting hurt in meetings, just speak up more? Well, if you don't perceive that there is support for your ideas, or if you have tried to speak up in meetings, and you're shut down or ignored, or dismissed almost which I have heard from many women, then it's harder to go ahead and just speak up. So that's where mentors, coaches, sponsors come in and we can talk a little bit about the difference between mentors and sponsors. But where these things come in, because once you get someone who you can be as your sounding board, and you can talk through how you can handle this. Also, women can help women. If you see something happening in a meeting, if you see that Bob said something that Mary just said a few minutes ago, and Bob's getting the attaboys say, "Wow, Bob, that was great and you know? Mary was just talking about that five minutes ago." Have your sisters back! Do these things that really can help both you and her get heard better because it puts people on call that you were aware of what just happened, and you're not going to just sit there. So that takes getting used to, it takes practice. It's not something that comes all the time. But I would say one of the biggest ways that women can help themselves is to get a mentor and be honest about what it is you want to achieve, what your career goals are, where your aspirations lie. Do you want to go after a leadership position? And if so, how might you do it? How might you get around these things that you see as holding you back?
On the other hand, how can employers help women on their team?
That is one of the places that I try to coach employers on a little bit. Be aware of these things. It's not enough to say that women aren't speaking up, why aren't these speaking up? What's actually happening in those meetings? If you stop and look around, and really start to appreciate the dynamics that are happening, if women are getting elbowed out of the conversation, or one person is always dominating, you are the person to put a stop to that. That's kind of a trickle-down thing, if you're the CEO of a company, and you aren't meeting your equity and inclusion goals, then you need to start having meetings with your managers and your directors and ask what's going on? Why aren't we recruiting more women? Why what's happening in meetings? And if you're the person running those meetings, make sure you give women not just a moment where you suddenly say, "Barb, what do you think?" Because if the environment has never really been supportive, or open, to just turn the spotlight might leave them frozen in their tracks. So I would say, think about what's going on in your office in your meetings, and make sure that there is an open and inviting opportunity to speak, and that the follow on isn't just kind of, "Are you done? Is that it? Okay? So Bob, what do you think about this?" That doesn't do it, so really work on those things. Then one of the things that I preach all the time is to make sure that they have professional development opportunities because that is such a crucial piece of one; letting them know that you actually are behind their career development. It's a vote of confidence, it will buy you some allegiance too and it will help strengthen your succession plan. So doing those few things, which is just a little bit of time and a little bit of investment can make a world of difference.
Can you share with my listeners one of your favorite networking experiences that you've had?
I will say honestly and like everybody else I so miss being in person and it's unfortunate that you are not in the DC area, but one of my favorite networking events is The Institute for Excellence in Sales. They have had and will have again monthly programs and the great thing is the networking is awesome. You meet other salespeople in this instance, but they're from all kinds of companies, tech companies, government contracting companies and you meet really interesting people. Then you get treated to a phenomenal speaker who presents on the art and science of selling and I have met some of the most wonderful people through that program. Now, of course, we're expanding who we network with because of COVID in this virtual world and it's really opened up a lot of things. One; we are really leaning on platforms like Linkedin and through LinkedIn, I have done some exceptional networking and I probably would not have given it that much time if we weren't in this situation. I have found great organizations and networking opportunities in that way and I have people reaching out to me all the time too and there are just so many ways to network these days that are a heck of a lot less frightening than walking up to somebody at an in-person networking event which I know can be scary, especially when you're new, straight out of college, or new to a new industry or something because you have to go up and make small talk and do all those things that maybe don't come easily to you. So it's a brave new world when it comes to networking if you haven't tried it before, but it is such a crucial piece of your career growth and in sales.
How do you best stay in front of and nurture your network?
This is an interesting question because content is king as they say and people put so much time and energy into their content now. I have to wonder sometimes if the return on investment is actually there in terms of how much time it takes. Now, if you have a whole team making content then it might be. I like to do a lot of commenting on what interests them. I will do content too but I feel, at least for myself that the thing that works best for me so I can stay in front of people that I want to do business with and that I admire is to really engage in a conversation over the content that matters to them. So I will put my own content out there but I make sure that their content is seen and heard and shared and liked so that we have an engaging conversation around things that really are of interest to them.
What advice would you offer that business professional who's really looking to grow their network?
In this virtual time, I would see who's doing business with the companies you want to do business with, and connect with them, and then connect with those companies and businesses. It's a multi-step process and then look for associations and organizations that are in the field of business that you are selling to, and make sure you join them and get in those conversations. When we can do things back in person, go to those events, muster up the courage to speak to people. After you do it a few 100 times it's easy. But really professional organizations, not just in your particular line of business, but in adjacent ones. Think a little broadly and then find those organizations and get involved and build your network with a wider base. Try not to be too narrow.
If you could go back to Your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
It's interesting that you asked that because, as you know, I run The Women in Sales Leadership Forum. I bring in all these amazing women to talk to all the amazing women that go through it and they talk about mentors and sponsors and programs. One, I think to myself that I wish there was more of this for women when I started my professional career, which there wasn't. Two, I have always been a little bit of an adrenaline junkie, I get off on new and exciting, and I like to do things that are super challenging and I get bored kind of easily. It's gotten a little better as I've gotten older, but I would get bored with the situation, or I would get frustrated for many of the reasons that we talked about earlier of how I was treated, or how all women were treated in a company and so I would leave, rather than figuring out a way to fight the fight. I realize now that there were some really great opportunities that I walked away from so that I would not walk away from those interests. If you have a job you love, but you're not crazy about the company, find that mentor, and figure out if there are things that you could be doing differently, or how you can ask for what you need, what you want, and what you deserve instead of getting fed up and walking away. So that would be my advice and is the thing I wish I could change.
Any final word of advice for our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
Really think about ways to help support other women. What can you be doing? What do they need? And make sure you never let something get said or done and wish you had said or done something about it because it's those micro situations that kind of build and they take the wind out of people’s sails. So just make sure you have somebody back all the time, and then someone will have yours.
Connect with Gina:
Email: gstracuzzi@i4esbd.org
Visit Gina’s Website: https://i4esbd.com/
Connect with Gina on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ginastracuzzi/
Meet Elin
Ellen is The Founder and President of White Knight Productions and is the Founder of The Boardroom, an online community for entrepreneurs to connect network, and grow their businesses. Her first book Ready, Set, Grit, Three Steps To Success In Life, Business, and The Pursuit of Happiness comes out this spring.
Why don't you tell me a little bit about how White Knight Productions has adapted to work with clients nationwide?
So when we started, we are a 12-year-old company, we've been around for a while. We make videos and animations and help people with marketing. That's not the only thing we do, but we do a lot of marketing work. The vast majority of what we do is visual. When we started the company 12 years ago, we were focusing on local clients, regional clients, the whole traditional way of doing video production. Over the years, that has really changed dramatically, where now we do work with clients all over the country. I as the principal in the agency, I've worked very hard to foster relationships with videographers around the country, and relationships with our clients throughout the country, and have found a kind of innovative ways to service them without necessarily being there on site. Sometimes especially pre COVID we would fly out and attend a shoot, or other meetings in different locations. But these days, we do so much via remote video capture. We do so many meetings via zoom and that but it's interesting how we've really been able to expand our reach. First by changing our mindset and then by looking for solutions to manifest what we were looking to make happen.
Let's talk about some misconceptions that people have when working with a video production company.
Well, a lot of people think it's got to be super expensive when they hire a video company. I feel like a lot of people feel concerned that their brand won't be well reflected, or that they're going to be giving up control over the messaging or the project. Also just that it's inconvenient and a little bit scary. But you put a camera in front of people, many people who just aren't used to it and it's super intimidating, and you throw up some lights and add a few people in the mix and it can be very scary to step up there and be in the spotlight. It can be scary even if you're used to speaking, even people that are used to public speaking, or we've had experiences with CEOs of large medical groups, for example, that have been super intimidated by the camera. So one of the things that we do as a video company, is we work very hard to make sure everybody's comfortable, and kind of forgets that the cameras there. Eventually, it takes a little work and a little soothing sometimes. But it's always our goal to make people enjoy the experience and also to realize that there are different ways to work with a video team. Sometimes traditional video can be pricey because there's a lot that goes into it. People forget all the planning that goes into it, all the scripting, and all that stuff. But for us, I can't speak for every video company, but I'm sure this is the same for others as well. We always try to work with our clients to make the whole process very collaborative, and also to find solutions that work within their budget, and that help them reach their goals.
So you're extremely driven in supporting other entrepreneurs and building community, why is that and what is your vision, ultimately?
That's a huge part of what I'm so passionate about. Me as a small business owner, I know firsthand how challenging it can be and how lonely it can be sometimes, especially when you're going through something challenging. In my company, 2015 was a really tough year for us, and as I said, we've been around for 12 years. We grew very quickly the first few years and 2015 was our come to Jesus moment. It was really hard and at that time I didn't really have the right people who I could talk to. I was a member of networking groups, but you typically don't go to networking groups and just spill all your problems. Of course, I have friends, but a lot of my friends didn't understand the nuances of running a business and my family was supportive, but they didn't really get it. After I survived that time and rebuilt the company, I really got driven on this community-building thing, because I started hearing similar stories from other people, and it's really important to me to try to support other small or medium-sized business owners who might not have that support network. Also just to try to help other people grow their businesses. Over the years, I have had great mentors, I've had great coaches, and learned a whole heck of a lot from making some big mistakes. I just think, when we have the opportunity to help others and give somebody a hand or build a community that's supportive, we should take that opportunity. It's something I love doing and it's my passion project. So you mentioned I had built The Boardroom, which is an online community for entrepreneurs and I've been doing these talks every Friday for years. This is our fourth year of hosting free webinars really for anyone, but they're targeted to entrepreneurs. I'm scheduled to talk and one soon, I'm so excited. Oh, all your listeners come and join us!
Can you help me do that by sharing with our listeners one of your favorite or most successful networking experiences that you've had?
I think maybe I would like to share some thoughts about networking, rather than a specific experience, although I also will share an experience with you in just a moment. I think that one of the big keys to successful networking is to shift your mindset away from your own personal goals like, "Oh, I really want to get one new client at this networking event," or, "I really want to close a new deal." That is the wrong way to go into networking, in my view, it much more so should be about service and connection, and relationship building that's so important. I think that is my biggest tip for going into networking events. Then also, if you have the opportunity to stand up and introduce yourself, to try to be memorable and I'm thinking back and this will segue into my experience that I'd like to share. So thinking back to a guy who was my mentor for a while, he's a sales coach. He used to work at a very large corporation, he was very high up at this corporation, and then he went up by himself. But he's just full of knowledge and he's just one of these people that you just want to listen to you all day long. He was a big proponent of being memorable, you know, just like break the mold, if you have to get up and introduce yourself. He always would only bring three business cards to a networking event, which is interesting. So you had to like earn the right to get one of his business cards and I think that learning from him, is probably part of my success story with networking is just to be very intentional about who you're connecting with. Of course, he would take other people's business cards, but like to give it was different. That's just his philosophy, I'm not saying it's the right way, but it's interesting to follow somebody like that and watch how they expertly make connections and build relationships in a very intentional way. There was another one where I was hosting one of my Friday talks that I had mentioned where I was talking to a new connection, someone had introduced me to this woman, because she actually is looking for a videographer, but not for a few months. So we just started the conversation and I invited her to this event and she had shared it with me, she's also looking for someone to help with web and SEO, but she was too busy to come to the event. She's like, "I think it's just not a good fit for me, I'm too busy," and it's funny because I met the person there who was perfect for her web SEO and I thought of her and I connected them. But I was like, "If you could have just come on here by yourself, you could have met this person firsthand." I think it's never a waste of time to go out and meet people and get a chance to talk about what you do and what you're looking for.
What advice would you offer to business professionals really looking to grow their network?
I think right now in a time where much of what we're doing is online. I think LinkedIn is a great place to grow your network and a good strategy for LinkedIn is going in and finding people you want to connect with. Please do not connect with them and start selling them things right away, that's super annoying, please don't do that. I even started saying to people, when they try to do that, I just write a message to them saying that it's my pet peeve and asking them not to do that. What I do recommend is finding people that you would like to connect to maybe like to do business with, and start following them, start commenting on their posts. Give thoughtful comments, thoughtful feedback, and start conversations that way because then you begin to build a relationship, and you begin to have something to talk about. Then perhaps you have a better opportunity, a better chance that they might accept your invitation to have a further conversation and that can be an exploratory conversation. I don't think anybody enjoys a sales pitch, it's a lot better to approach things with curiosity, and a place of service. I don't think you can go wrong with either of those.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I would definitely tell myself to chill out. I was so worried about so many things that I had no control over and everything has a funny way of working out. So I think I would just have tried to worry less and enjoy the moment more just knowing it was all going to be perfect. I try to tell my kids that because now they're in their early 20s and it's a hard thing to hear. Maybe we just have to live it for ourselves. But I do feel like that's a truth, just believe that things are working out for you.
Do you have any final word or advice for our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
I think I would just say do not underestimate the importance of doing this. It's probably your most valuable asset or one of your most valuable assets. I really didn't realize this fully myself until COVID shut everything down and we still had quite a bit of work and when I looked at it and analyze it, it was all from my network, it was all from people who we'd been introduced to or referred to or worked with or someone told somebody about us and suddenly we had work. I just never could have accomplished any of that with a straight-up advertising campaign. It would have been a lot more expensive and probably not as effective. So nurturing that network is something I now intentionally prioritize all the time, it's super important
Connect with Elin:
Email: elin.barton@whiteknightpro.com">elin.barton@whiteknightpro.com
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Meet Curt
Kurt Anderson founded an e-commerce company in 1995 that was ranked three times on the Internet Retailer Magazine's Top 1000 E-Commerce Companies. Since selling that company, Kurt has served as an e-commerce consultant serving manufacturers. He is the author of Stop Being The Best Kept Secret, and founder of b2btail.com an e-commerce resource guide for manufacturers.
How does a custom manufacturer enter the e-commerce market?
Certainly, as we all know, in this world that we're living in today, everything has drastically changed. So a little different dynamic, prior to 2020 and now there's a tremendous sense of urgency. So with e-commerce, as I'm looking out my window, the UPS man just left and dropped off an Amazon package. So Amazon most manufacturers, especially that custom side where they don't have a proprietary product or a finished good, you're like, "Well, hey, I'm left out of that e-commerce party." Original equipment manufacturers that had those finished goods are an easier slide-in for them and it's much more challenging for the custom manufacturer. So the custom manufacturer, they bend metal, they cut steel, fabricate something, injection, mold, printed circuit boards, you know, they're always making something for somebody else. So the preach that I have is how do you scale your proprietary process? Because what these custom manufacturers have over the years, they've perfected a proprietary process, and it's just trying to walk them through the steps of how do we convert that proprietary process into a proprietary good?
How would you answer that question?
A big thing with e-commerce, and again, if you look at your company, your website like you guys do an amazing job helping your clients with pay per click, SEO, trying to be found, trying to help them stop being the best-kept secret, right? And you're an expert at that lead generation so I think one myth to dispel is so many of those custom manufacturers that well e-commerce is Amazon at my door. No, it's actually Lori coming in and her team and helping you with that lead gen and driving that traffic to their website. Now if they're going after again, I'd been metal I cut steel. You know this, you know, you're a keyword expert. If you go really broad, man, you're still gonna be the best-kept secret. It's so hard to be found for CNC machining, or fabricating metal but if you do CNC machining for turbine engines because I'm in the northwest and I'm in the supply chain of aerospace or I bend metal for tractors and I'm trying to find and target Caterpillar or something. So I think like going after those long-tail keywords and for you and I speak in the SEO language, we're trying to help them with that keyword strategy by going deep in what you and I call those longtail keywords. That longtail keyword is the opportunity for the e-commerce opportunity. So it's actually it's that 80-20 rule where they're like, "Hey, tell me about your business," And we're like, "We crank out these little trinkets and our 80-20 rule, 80% comes from the 20%." Where is that 20% and can we start creating an e-commerce opportunity? Could we put those products actually, on your website? Could we take those products and put them on an online marketplace? That's kind of the process of getting into that e-commerce opportunity here.
So you've mentioned Amazon and a couple of other marketplaces. Do you recommend that manufacturers use those?
I'm super bullish on the online marketplaces for manufacturers and again, from the OEM side, that original equipment manufacturer, absolutely. So you've got Digi key, which if you're in the electrical field in any capacity, they have a great marketplace. We've talked about Zorro, you have like McMaster car. And then of course the big granddaddy of them all Amazon. Here's a scary thing, so we do a lot of webinars with the manufacturing extension partnerships, if you're familiar with those, the MEP, so they're all over the country. So I do a lot of webinars at a lot of different MEPs. So actually today, we're in the midst of doing a 12 part webinar series at IMAC, which is the Illinois MEP. And our speaker today was Brian Beck who is just a phenomenal Amazon guru. He wrote a book called Billion Dollar b2b E-Commerce so he spoke today at Illinois, he shared that 70% of product search is now started on Amazon. So even if you're a custom manufacturer and you're like, "Oh, well, you know what, that's not for me, or I don't need to be on Amazon." If there's an ideal client out there that's looking for the product that you make every day and you're denying yourself by not being on Amazon, you've just lost basically a 70% opportunity of being found for that product. So that's scary.
Do you have manufacturers using any sort of configurators to allow customers to really customize offerings that they have?
I'm a big baseball fan so I'll use a baseball analogy. So configurators or rate, my strike zone. I am so bullish on configurators for manufacturers and what this does, and again, with like the services that you and your team provide what you do, this is what I always preach, and I'm sure you love it, and this is what you do with your clients. I'm always preaching to them how do you help that ideal client? That buyer at Boeing, the buyer at Caterpillar, maybe it's just another small custom job shop. How do we get our soul mates to make a buying decision on a Friday night at midnight, without having to wait for us to open up our doors on a Monday morning? So with that strategy, that configurator is just such a powerful example. In my book, I go through a step-by-step how a small custom manufacturer uses a configurator and they're connecting with Virgin Hyperloop, Boeing, Halliburton, just again, allowing buyers to come on their website, configure and create their product 24/7. It was super easy, it was super cheap. This was a manufacturer he's a digital immigrant, very resistant to technology, very resistant to change and we put up a configurator and he's just blown away by the opportunities that this configurator has created. When your custom job shop, you're almost like, "Hey, let's just take everything that walks in the door." But when you narrow that down, we talked about that long-tail key strategy, what are your true core strengths? If you can apply it with a configurator and there's a lot of companies that are doing amazing work with configurators your neighbors right in Wisconsin.
Can you share with our listeners one of your favorite networking stories or experiences that you've had?
So you and I do a lot of educating, a lot of webinars and what have you, and what I love when you open up your podcasts, you talk about who you know. So I do a lot of LinkedIn workshops at MEPs (manufacturing extension partnerships) and different trade groups. I have a slide and I say we grew up hearing "Hey, it's not what, you know, it's who you know." With LinkedIn, I like to take it one step further. It's not what you know, it's not who you know, it's what you know about who you know. So, Lori and I were just talking earlier, and Lori has volunteered and offered to be on our weekly webinar series. Lori and I connected and immediately we're both bouncing back and forth. One of the first people that came to mind was Harry Moser, and Harry if you're manufacturing Boy, you know, Harry. He is the official cheerleader of US manufacturing. And so I know he was just on your podcast, he's coming up on our webinar. Just a lot of people love his mission, what he's pushing out and he's a delight to know. So that's a great example of networking. I could share dozens of others, but I was just thrilled when I saw that he was on your podcast, and how we're building this community to help support manufacturers together.
How do you stay in front of and nurture the network that you've created?
I think we both have a hunger for that education piece of sharing. I never ever claim myself self to be an expert, I've just been in e-commerce since 1995. So that means two things, it means I'm an old dude and I have a lot of war wounds and scars and tons of mistakes that I've made that I love to share with folks of what not to do as much as things of what to do. So, again, jumping on podcasts with great people like you, a lot of webinars. You know, as I mentioned, with the manufacturing, extension partnerships, I work with a lot of the MEPs around the country, we do our Friday webinar series, it's free every single Friday. So just really beating that drum pretty heavy of helping manufacturers. A big initiative that we're doing, we started this Co-Op it's, it's called E-Commerce Management and the big drum that we're beating is how do you help manufacturers? How can we teach them to fish? So many people have been burnt with bad marketing, and I've had examples where a manufacturer will hire a PPC firm for 50 grand a year and have zero results because of bad keywords and I'll do an audit on what they're doing and it's just sad. So what we've been really preaching is with the MEPs that we're working with, we're starting a do it with you model of how can we help the manufacturers that have a marketing team, and teach them how to fish and even some of the marketing folks that are at manufacturers are a little bit more sophisticated, and they're like, "Well, you know what, I don't necessarily need someone to teach me how to fish but boy, I could learn some new fishing spots, or some new fishing strategies," if you will. So they feel alone in a silo and then what the great thing is, is building them up, and then handing them off to a firm like yourself to get that high-level professional nurturing that they need for the folks that need a firm like yours, but they're just hesitant because they're hearing these horror stories. Well, if you can teach them a little bit and do it with them, then they're like, "Okay, this is like trying to build my bathroom or my kitchen on my own. It's fun, it sounded great on paper, but now I need the professional to come in and help me."
What advice do you have for that business professional who's really looking to grow their network?
If you're in a b2b space, and because I'm an older dude, I'm a LinkedIn junkie. That's how I make a living, that's where my connections are, there are just amazing people of high integrity. The thing is, it's just like in person, you know, Lori, you're super active on your profile with nonprofit groups in your community, and you gravitate towards certain people pre COVID when we could go out and play and socialize. You gravitate towards certain people that have the same values and people that you respect or admire, or even people that are at a place where you're like, "You know what? I want to get to where they are," and you gravitate towards those people. On LinkedIn, you can do the exact same thing you can weed out through some of the clutter, or some of the folks. I tell everybody, I'm not for everyone, I know that. But for the manufacturer that wants to be e-commerce, I hope I'm your guy. How can we resonate and connect and help lift each other up? So my long-winded answer is I'm a big LinkedIn guy. I think it's a great place for b2b connections.
So if you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I try to live in the present so I try not to dwell on the past too much. Maybe I'll be cliche and say don't sweat the small stuff, don't do this, don't do that. But I think if I were to go back to my 20-year-old self, I would tell myself to have a sense of urgency on a daily basis because it doesn't cost you anything. It doesn't have to add anxiety or stress. You're a great athlete, you're super involved with your community with hockey and I haven't seen you play, but I'm assuming that you're probably pretty aggressive. I always have the saying, "Hey, you know, can we leave it all in a field?" For you, can you leave it on the ice? So for us as professionals, if I were to go back to my 20-year-old Kurt, I'd be like, "Dude, just give everything you've got every day, it doesn't cost you a penny to work harder." Of course, work smarter, I'm not saying working longer hours or seven days a week, but just come in an unapologetic enthusiasm for what you do. So that would be my advice.
Do you have any final words of advice for our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
Kudos to you for listening to this podcast so you're looking to grow you're looking to improve. This digital sprint that we're in right now is not going to slow down anytime soon. So you know link up with these experts such as Lori, catch a webinar, catch these podcasts, team up with her firm and really you just have to stop be the best-kept secret.
Connect with Kurt
Kurt’s Website: https://b2btail.com/
Meet Elisa:
Elisa has been practicing law for over 20 years specializing in business and corporate law. Elisa helps you with all aspects of your business from forming an entity, starting a business, buying or selling a business, drafting, reviewing, and negotiating all types of contracts. Are you starting a new franchise or buying or selling a franchise? Definitely connect with Elisa. Assisting with real estate transactions involving leasing, buying, and selling, she's got you covered.
When is it important to find an attorney when starting or buying a business?
I think as soon as you know that you want to start, you just want to form your entity or you're looking to buy a business or start a business. There's a lot of steps, there's a lot of information on the internet, and it's all valuable. But you really need to hook up with someone who can make sure that you're protected in terms of making sure that your structure is right, that you filed all the correct forms, that you have everything you need so that you're not scrambling at a later date for documents or for what you need. So the sooner the better is always what I tell people.
What do you say to people that just say they're going to Google for the templates for these contracts?
It's a great resource, but there are two drawbacks. The biggest one came up for people during PPP, I had a lot of lenders calling me because they had people that started their own business, and they went ahead and filed their articles online. They might have gotten the EIM because they had an accountant or CPA, but they didn't have their operating agreement or their shareholders agreement and you needed that to get some of the PPP money. So I drafted a lot of those for people, a lot of times people follow the instructions, but they don't think it's necessary, or they'll use a template for an operating agreement or a contract and it doesn't always fit their situation. The biggest issue comes up when people are doing a lot of research and they're cutting and pasting from different sources. Then you have a contract that at the end of the day conflicts within itself. That does not help anyone if an issue arises between partners, members, or if you're sued. So Google is a great resource, but you've got to know where you're inserting it, how it's used, and how it relates to other provisions within a contract.
Do you recommend getting an attorney up front and not just when you're actually ready to sign a contract?
There's a lot of different aspects to it when you're looking to buy. First of all, there's a lot of people you need that are involved, that need to look at things. So when people come to me, one of the greatest benefits with my network in the last few years it's the best of the best that I get to work with. So if you come to me at the beginning, when you're starting to look, we can get you with the right lender, we can get you with a CPA, there are other people to look at the documents. So when you take us first, we might do a letter of intent, we might do an asset purchase agreement or stock purchase agreement, but you want to make sure that everything's in there, so that you can do your due diligence, and that we're bringing other people on. CPAs are great at looking at the financials. So the sooner you bring an attorney on or someone in your network on like a CPA, that will hook you up with the other people like the insurance people, the lenders, the better because you can waste a lot of time and money, a lot of time too just trying to see where you're at. Whereas once you get the attorney or you get somebody that's going to work with you, you're able to move forward on it and see whether or not it's actually a viable purchase for you.
Word on the street is you're literally available 24 seven, why are you so accessible?
I am. With what I do, no one's going to die, and no one's going to jail. Now my firm partner does criminal so yes, some people do go to jail. But most of the time when people are calling me at unusual hours, meaning it's 11 o'clock on a Friday night, it's because they're up and they're worried about something. I always think that I'm up, and my phone rings, and I can pick it up, I might as well pick it up and see what's bothering you. Chances are, it's not that serious. I understand that at the moment it is for you, but we can resolve it. So I just feel as if there's no need for people to have to wait till eight o'clock on a Monday to call me. Sometimes if you just call me I explain to you why you should be worried or you shouldn't be worried, or what we're doing to make sure that nothing negative happens. A lot of times I have clients where we’re working on matters for them and it is forefront in their mind. They're not going to lose their house, they won’t lose their job, but it's all-encompassing. So if I can help you for just a moment remember that nothing bad is going to happen it helps people feel better. So I am pretty much 24/7. There are a couple of other attorneys on LinkedIn that I've gotten to know and other states that are the same way, so I'm not the only one. My firm partner does the same thing, mostly because he does criminal law and we have to be able to respond to those people right away.
Can you share with our listeners one of your most successful or favorite networking stories that you had?
So I just started networking about two and a half years ago and it is amazing. You get to reach out and meet the most incredible people that can help your clients. It isn't so much about gathering leads for yourself, it's more who can I meet that I that can help my clients? My best networking story is a LinkedIn one about a year and a half ago. It was Labor Day and I was at work and heavy hitter at the time on LinkedIn posted a picture of himself about a business and he had cotton candy. I realized it was Labor Day and I had not had any cotton candy all summer. I commented, "I haven't had cotton candy all summer, I've been in my office," and within five or six minutes, he responded and said, "Somebody get this girl cotton candy!" Within another four or five minutes, I'm one of the top producers of organic cotton candy, who actually supplies to Disney, called me and messaged on LinkedIn that he was sending me a case of his cotton candy, and he did. I was just blown away. There were a bunch of attorneys out in New York that caught onto that because they knew who he was and they thought it was kind of amazing situation because it's little Elisa from Wisconsin, and all these big-time attorneys and these people out in New York, and one of the attorneys works in Miami, and I am licensed in Florida as well as Wisconsin and he and I have been doing business now. So to me, that's just amazing.
How do you stay in front of and nurture these relationships that you're creating?
I think a lot of it is just continuously showing up for the networking events. This is a personal statement, I'm better in person, I find zoom more exhausting than when you're in person. But I think that you have to stay on it even if you're you know your desk is covered with work and you think, "Well, I still need to show up to this event because other people may need something that I have or may need a contact that I have." The other part of it that I feel very strongly about and I've been very fortunate because a lot of the networking groups that I'm in feel the same way that when we get a referral from someone. Obviously, I treat everyone with the same amount of respect and I'm grateful my phone is ringing, but at the same time, if you refer someone to me, you are really putting yourself out there because if I don't take care of them, that's a poor reflection on you. So I think one of the joint feelings that all the people in a couple of my networking groups have is that when we get a referral, we are so grateful that we realize what we do impacts, not just the person that needs the assistance, but the person that gave the referral. So we all treat each other that way and so there's this mutual respect with these groups of people. I think it just betters all of our clients and it betters ourselves in our own work.
What advice would you offer the business professionals looking to grow their network?
You have to take chances, you have to be willing to step into some networks that you're not sure if you belong there or not. You also have to know when to leave, there are some networking groups I've been in where I am not a good fit for them, I just know it. So you have to be able to say, alright, this isn't working for me, or it's not working for them so I need to move to another group and find another group that works better for you, in terms of what you can bring to the table for other people, and then what they can bring to you for your client base. But I don't think there's any shame in moving around and trying different groups and then saying, sometimes people outgrow groups, I've heard people say that. I'm in one group I love and I've been in it for almost two and a half years now since I started networking. Some people say I've outgrown it, and that's fine for them. I obviously haven't outgrown it, I think it's a great group so you have to accept that sometimes maybe you do outgrow things, maybe you don't.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I think that I would definitely tell myself I needed to network earlier on. I think the biggest thing I would have told myself is well, one is technology. I've never ever been a big technology person I've only really gotten into it in the last five to six years and I love it now. So I probably wouldn't tell myself to take a little more interest in technology. There isn't anything I wouldn't have done. I got out of undergrad, I've always worked, and going to school full time I got my master's degree. Then when I had enough money, I could go to law school. So there isn't anything that I would do differently because it gave me experiences that I had and I met people that have played into my life all along. I think the one thing that's interesting that I do share with a lot of people is one of the largest transitions that I had was a year and a half ago and I didn't have anything to do with it. I was working with another attorney who is now my firm partner. He does criminal law and we met through a mutual client and he said we should merge and I'm like, "I'm not merging, I'm better by myself, but I'll refer to you." He's a great litigator and I was referring to him and he said we really should merge. This is after about a year and a half and I'm like I really don't want to merge my practice, I'm used to just it running on my own, it's easier. One Saturday, I was sitting at my desk at work, and I got an email and I'm looking to the left at it as I'm drafting a document, I'll never forget it and he merged us without telling me. I don't really think you're supposed to do that. Then he called me three minutes later and said, "I'm at Chase Bank, could you come down?" And I'm like, "What are you doing?" He says, "I just merged us, I don't care what you think we're merging, come down here we’re opening up business accounts." It's a great story and it's funny, but the truth is it's taken us a year and a half to get our act together, but it's actually working. It was probably one of the best decisions I didn't make that someone else made for me.
We've all heard of the six degrees of separation. Who is the one person that you'd love to connect with and do you think you can do it within the sixth degree?
There are so many people that I would like to connect with. I think that there have been few people that have wanted to connect with that I've been able to. There's one attorney that's on LinkedIn that posts a lot, and I've met other people around him and I really would like to reach out to him. I could do it directly within one degree, but I'm just afraid to. It's sort of like one of those where the person so high up that you think you just don't want to do that. But at the same time, I'm only one degree away. So I think I have a better chance I just have to get brave and do it.
Do you have any final words of advice to offer listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
I think that you just have to always remember that your clients and your customers are very important. And when you're in your networking groups, you have to look at all the people that you're with, that they're your customers, your clients as well, and that you're both going to work together to help each other's clients and customers so that their businesses do better. Because when my clients succeed, I succeed. So I just feel like that's the best way to stay in front of your network and just remember what the purpose is.
Connect with Elisa:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elisa-ruer-attorney/
Visit Elisa’s Website: https://www.praktesslaw.com/
Meet Suzanne
Suzanne notices a variety of creative ways people are branding themselves, both consciously and unconsciously, but is a successful business brand that results from powerful marketing. When the hype subsides, what keeps a good brand going strong? What is the real secret to consistent brand growth and advocacy? With over two and a half decades of strategic communication, employee brand engagement, and internal brand development, Suzanne's inside-out brand-building strategy creates the clarity and actions necessary for her clients to drive consistency, distinction, and advocacy long term.
In your terms, what is your definition of a personal brand?
So a personal brand is really just a perception. It lives in the minds of the owner and eventually to its market. So it lives in my mind and your mind and all of our audience's minds. It's based on experience, and emotion and then the products and services of that experience. So it's really all about perception and when people realize that in the first seven seconds of contact with somebody else, others are forming 11 impressions of you through their sensory perceptions. So what do you want those perceptions to be?
Could you tell us more about the 11 impressions that you’re speaking about?
We're all human beings. So our ability to perceive and begin to judge and perceive things based on our own filters kicks in gear the moment we meet people. Social Capital is all about networking so we can dig into what that means when you're out there networking. That's really powerful to know and to get super clear on your personal brand value position in what you want others to begin perceiving from you right off the bat.
Let's talk a little bit about the difference between marketing and branding. Can you bring some clarity to that?
This is my favorite topic because this is why I'm in business. When I do a lot of my workshops and pieces of training, that this is the big "Aha" moment. One of my pet peeves as a brand expert is knowing that oftentimes marketing and branding are used in the same sentence for the same reasons and depicting the same meaning. If I could just explain that you market a brand. So marketing is this verb, it's this thing, you go out and you disseminate and communicate information or the message of the brand. If you haven't yet fully defined the brand, and you're out there spending, money marketing, what are you actually marketing? So the brand is actually that perception. Have I stopped and defined those pieces and parts that helped create the value position perception that I want others to have of what it is that I do and who I am? So the effort for branding is really about the effort in assigning meaning. Assigning meaning to what that brand stands for and that's what the book is all about. That's what my whole last, basically 30 years, of being in this industry has been to help the client identify, define, and then align themselves into that value position so that they can become what they want to be known for. Alignment is a big piece and that's about the experience, the delivery, the follow-through, the vernacular you use, your messaging. All of that is walking the talk basically.
How do you brand multiple sub-brand companies under a bigger corporate brand?
That's a great question and I've had the opportunity to do that several times. It seems really complicated, but when you understand that there's this mothership brand that should espouse a set of core values that all the other sub-brands should operate under. So it's this section of the brand DNA process where we uncover those core values. That set of core values should be fluid and infused throughout all of the other brands to be a part of that mothership. But the caveat here is each of those sub-brands can then have values or have a set of personality attributes, a collective set of personality attributes. So that means that you may have a really fun, maybe it's outdoorsy, love the environment personality of a sub-brand. Maybe it's a product or a company within this, bigger mothership and then you might have something that's a bit more luxurious or high end that's still under that same company. Those two sub-brands will have different personalities, but they will all espouse the same values of the mothership brands so to speak. So there's that connection, there's that link, there still that resonance from the value position of the buyer, knowing that this mothership brand is this named company. You can look at Apple and all the different sub-brands that they have right now including electric vehicles. Google also, they've got their fingers in so many different things, but the value construct of the mothership company is really the glue or the coherence that keeps them all in alignment with that particular brand promise.
Can you share with our listeners one of your favorite networking experiences that you've had?
Well, I was invited to go to a small group of women who supported the franchise industry so to speak. Because I was new, I was able to get like two more minutes in what I call my brand identity statement which is basically your elevator pitch. This was on the fly, I had no idea that they were going to ask me to do this, but within that two minutes, I got one of my biggest clients from just being super clear on what it is that I delivered to that particular market. At the time I was very conscious that I was in a room full of women who ran franchises and that was the topic or the theme. So I had to on the fly adjust what my value position was to the franchise market. When you know your stuff and you're crystal clear on who you are, you can do that in a heartbeat and within two minutes, you can land big-time clients. It's a really powerful thing to spend time on, and get clear on.
How do you stay in front of them best nurture the relationships that you've been creating?
Well, I am quite the networker. I love getting out there and meeting people and I love speaking so I do a lot of that to networking groups. I also have a newsletter that I send out. I'm on social media and almost every day in terms of posting something in some social media realm. I also have a YouTube channel and I have a series now I started called 90 Seconds of Personal Brand Clarity and the videos are short snippets and tips and techniques to help you get more top of mind with your brand and ways to do that, from my books, specifically my personal brand clarity book. I also have a series called Brand Bites which I started several years ago. These are about three minutes and it digs in a little bit deeper with some examples of branding tips and techniques that I run. So people who subscribe to that it's called Personal Brand Clarity on YouTube, then they'll get all the new notices. So that's nurturing a little bit, but I just like to be out there.
What advice would you offer that professional who's really looking to grow their network?
I think that from the inside out, which is always where I start, it's never about the doing, it's always about the being first. Until you get super clear on who you are as a brand and personal brand and get consistent in building that trust in your value position. So once you figure out what your value position is, and you talk about it on a regular basis, you may sound like a broken record to yourself, but it's reinforcement to your market when you do that. Even when you're out there networking in person, constantly say the same things so that people get to know you, they carve out that superpower that you have that you're super good at and that you are the go-to expert in your industry for that. So it's really about staying consistent. The second thing is being authentic and this is about being authentic to who you are. I always say in my workshops, you cannot be authentic when you don't know who you are yet. Who are you authentic to? When you do the work, then you have something to step into and stay aligned with. Then, of course, there's always distinction. What is it that makes you different than your closest competitor? Maybe localize it and see what your closest competitor is in your area.
If you could go back to your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?
I would probably tell myself to start asking for the sale sooner. Really just get in that confidence space that you can solve that problem and ask for the sale. 20 years go by before you really get the feel for your level of expertise and feeling comfortable, but I probably should have done that earlier. But now I do it all the time.
Do you have any final words of advice to offer our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?
I would just go back to knowing your value position and live it consistently. And the way to do that is find that process find that way to flush that out, and which is you know, why I wrote the book, Personal Brand Clarity so that when you get more confident in that space, you can conquer anything and sales become so easy.
Connect with Suzanne:
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