- Publisher |
- 37Signals
- Media Type |
- audio
- Podknife tags |
- Business,
- Design,
- Entrepreneurship,
- Interview,
- Management & Marketing
- Categories Via RSS |
- Business,
- Management
- People |
- Country Of Origin |
- USA
- Produced In |
- Chicago, IL
- Premiere Date |
- 2017-07-26
- Related Hashtags |
- #smallbusinesssaturday2018
- Phone Number |
- 708-628-7850
- Frequency |
- Weekly
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- No
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Submit Review"Ideas are immortal. They last forever. What doesn't last forever is inspiration. Inspiration is like fresh fruit or milk: it has an expiration date,” - from Rework, by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson
On this episode, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the Co-founders of 37signals, sit down with host Kimberly Rhodes to share their perspective on the fleeting nature of inspiration with insights from the chapter called "Inspiration is Perishable" in their book, Rework.
Listen in to discover why Jason and David liken inspiration to rocket fuel and offer advice to prevent smothering your best ideas with unnecessary tasks. They also explore team motivation and share the secret behind their enduring 20+ year working relationship.
Tune in to learn how to seize the moment when inspiration strikes, make the most of it, and avoid wasting its potential.
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly introduces the topic of the show today, from the book, Rework, the conversation is about the chapter called, "Inspiration is Perishable."
[00:31] - Jason shares how to filter out which ideas are truly worthwhile and which ones are not.
[01:48] - Inspiration is kind of like rocket fuel. David shares why he feels it’s important to act during the inspiration phase and which factors make inspiration perish most quickly.
[04:37] - New projects need intense inspiration and a sprint mindset.
[05:43] – How not to suffocate your inspiration right at the start. Jason shares why you should jump into action.
[06:37] - Many successful ideas started as imperfect ones. David shares the key to making them successful.
[07:33] - Inspiration ebbs and flows, Jason shares the key to knowing when a project is over and some advice from a piece he wrote called Faith in Eventually.
[09:38] - Motivation is a valuable driver of success. David shares his philosophy on why you should prioritize the idea that excites you the most (even if it looks worse on paper).
[10:37] - Don’t squander motivation on doubt—the importance of following your gut.
[12:48] - Kimberly asks how David and Jason get the team excited and fired up for their new ideas.
[13:13] - Everyone doesn’t have to be rah-rah fired up all the time. Jason shares his advice on what to focus on to keep a project progressing.
[15:02] - Not everyone needs to be a visionary; there's a division of labor. David shares the need for a clear direction and decision-makers in every project.
[17:11] - Kimberly asks if David and Jason tend to share inspiration simultaneously or have alternating phases of inspiration.
[17:29] - Jason highlights where he and David have different areas of focus and the crucial areas where they come together in alignment.
[18:29] - The balance between individual creativity and a unified vision. David shares what has helped them maintain their 20+ year working relationship and where they come together to collaborate.
[19:44] - Tune in next week for the special guest episode with the person chosen to share their underdog story. Rework is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Full video episodes are available on YouTube and X [formerly known as Twitter). If you have a question for Jason or David about a better way to work and run your business, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email, and we might answer it on a future episode.
Links and Resources:
From Jason's HEY World: Faith In Eventually
From David's HEY World: Inspiration is Perishable
Company culture is more than just a buzzword or a section in your employee handbook.
It's not something you can just write down and expect to manifest. It creates itself organically, through the attitudes and actions of your team that define how you work and more importantly how you work together.
Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the Co-founders of 37signals, sit down with host Kimberly Rhodes to share their perspective on the pivotal distinction between 'wanting' the right culture and actively 'doing the work' to foster a positive culture that truly reflects your values.
Listen in as they share what they look for in character and contributions when hiring new members for the team and how they assess whether a person will enhance or detract from the company's culture and operations.
And for those facing the tough question of whether their company culture ‘sucks’, they provide valuable insights into the hard choices, and uncomfortable conversations that drive meaningful culture change.
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly kicks off the show, and a discussion focused on culture from the book Rework.
[00:37] - Your organization’s culture creates itself. Jason shares what culture really represents, how it’s arrived at, and how to change it.
[02:10] - It's easy to write down what you "want" your culture to be. David shares why that might be a mistake and why it's harder to "do the work" to create a positive culture.
[04:28] - Kimberly shares her experience reading the company handbook when she began her career with 37signals and the impression it left.
[05:01] - The goal is not perfection but consistently doing the right things to maintain a fair and representative culture. David shares why aligning your words and actions is crucial to shaping your organization's culture over time.
[06:37] - Culture is show, it’s not tell. It’s the actual temperature of the organization, not the forecast.
[07:11] - David asks if your culture passes the “smell test.”
[07:36] - Kimberly shares a story about her husband’s experience in tech. She then asks how the team at 37signals has managed to create something so different from the industry standard.
[08:09] - Standing against Silicon Valley's cultural norms for a more realistic approach to work hours and productivity. David recounts Basecamp's humble beginnings with limited time and resources that prompted 37signals to prioritize efficient time utilization over long hours.
[11:43] - The human factor in culture. Kimberly asks whether the team considers how a new hire will align with the existing company culture.
[12:05] - Jason shares what they look for in character and contributions when hiring new members for the team. Plus, he shares how they assess whether a person will enhance or detract from the company's culture and operations.
[14:30] - Don't be quick to judge. David shares a more accurate way to evaluate the contributions of your team members.
[16:41] - Does your company culture suck? Kimberly asks for tips on how an organization can improve its culture when it's not aligned with the founder's vision.
[17:12] - The only way to bring about change is to change (hint: it starts at the top).
[18:41] - Culture change often requires hard choices and uncomfortable conversations—but the results are worthwhile.
[20:41] - Rework is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Full video episodes are available on YouTube and Twitter (also known as X). If you have a question for Jason or David about a better way to work and run your business, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email, and we might answer it on a future episode.
Links and Resources:
In this episode of Rework we're turning the spotlight onto you, our listeners, with another episode of listener questions.
Today, Kimberly Rhodes sits down with Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, to pull back the curtain on the intricacies they faced when hiring a COO for their team, and the intuition-driven decision making they used to ensure their new hire would be a good fit and complement the team.
Plus, how to help your company get started with working in six-week cycles, and adapting product development principles to professional services companies.
Listen in to explore Jason and David's unconventional yet remarkably effective strategies for business development and growth.
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly introduces the topic for today’s podcast, listener questions, with a question from Justin who asks, "I saw that you hired a COO in 2021 after not having someone in that role for a while. What’s the 37signals approach to executive hiring?"
[00:46] - Jason discusses their decision to use a recruiter for hiring their new COO and shares which qualities were more important to them than the candidate's resume.
[03:20] - David elaborates on the challenges of hiring executives, the importance of chemistry, and how Elaine complements their team.
[06:41] - Reflecting on adding a third person to a team with a long history—why it was important to find someone who could introduce a dose of healthy conflict without making everything a grind.
[08:07] - Jason shares how long the hiring process took, and what made them think that Elaine might be the right fit.
[09:13] - David shares the importance of "gravitas"—having the weight and legitimacy to inspire trust and confidence in the team and how Elaine stood out compared to others in the hiring process.
[10:44] - Kimberly shares this two-part question from Reuben: “What's your suggestion for helping a company get started with working in six-week cycles—is there a specific time to start? And are all the teams across 37signals synced on six-week cycles?”
[11:07] - Jason shares his perspective on getting started with six-week cycles, his advice on when is a good time to start a cycle, and the one time he wouldn’t.
[12:50] - David discusses the importance of individual focus in problem-solving and why he believes in starting with a small team to test Shape Up's effectiveness before implementing it company-wide.
[15:41] - The benefits of having the entire company operate on the same clock frequency.
[16:27] - Kimberly shares a question from a mystery caller asking for advice on adapting product development principles to professional services type companies, like public accounting or legal that work on hourly billing and tax deadlines or legal deadlines that they have to meet.
[17:21] - Jason and David share how to apply the core ideas of Shape Up to diverse service types and internal areas of your organization.
[19:43] - The value of setting shorter goals over six weeks, rather than annual goals to increase the chances that things will get done.
[20:11] - How shorter cycles help prevent the pile-up of tasks and overwhelming situations that often occur at the end of longer timeframes.
[20:49] - Kimberly introduces a listener question about whether the 37signals team uses telemetry or relies on intuition in their product development process.
[21:14] - Jason discusses their approach to product development, emphasizing the importance of other factors extensive telemetry, and A/B testing.
[22:12] - David shares the challenges they have encountered with telemetry and A/B testing.
[26:11] - The value of speed, forward momentum and making decisions instead of stalling to find a perfect solution.
[27:24] - How launching quickly helps your team, with an example of how the team trimmed two months of analysis down to one day.
[28:22] - Data can only reflect the past and doesn't accurately predict the future.
[29:14] - Momentum in making continuous improvements is both crucial AND hard to measure.
[30:10] - If you have a question for Jason or David about a better way to work and run your business, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or send us an email and we just might answer it on a future episode. The REWORK podcast is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. You can also find full video episodes on Twitter (also known as X) and YouTube.
Links and Resources:
Do you have a question for Jason and David? Send us an email or leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850.
In a world where subscriptions have become the norm for everything from streaming services to heated car seats, the team at 37signals recently unveiled a new venture that's poised to reintroduce the notion of software ownership with a pay-once model called ONCE.
Today, Kimberly Rhodes sits down with Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals to introduce ONCE to listeners of the show.
Listen in for a behind-the-scenes look at the driving principles, unique challenges, and potential impact of David and Jason's vision to offer simpler, more user-centric software, that they hope will transform the digital landscape and empower users worldwide.
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly opens the show, with the team introducing ONCE today on the show.
[00:25] - Jason clarifies exactly what ONCE is.
[01:16] - Inundated with software subscriptions? Why 37signals is aiming to reintroduce software ownership with a pay-once model.
[02:03] - The shift from software as a product to SaaS and why now is the time for an alternative.
[02:58] - The distinction between product and service.
[03:42] - When SaaS models just don’t fit (and when they lead to data ownership concerns).
[04:56] - Basecamp in the White House? David shares the story.
[05:57] - How transitioning from a service to a product model will change the landscape.
[07:08] - Jason shares that ONCE is an umbrella for future products and offers listeners insight into the future of Basecamp and HEY.
[09:18] -David shares the challenges of applying the ONCE idea to different software solutions.
[11:38] - David shares the desire for a simpler and more straightforward user experience akin to turning on a TV.
[13:22] - The need for a different software development approach, and why it will be a good time—even if it doesn't work.
[14:51] - Kimberly inquires about the availability of the code.
[15:42] - Jason highlights the transparency of the ONCE concept, sharing his hopes that it will serve as an educational tool for other product teams.
[16:40] - David reflects on how newer products have lost their repairability, emphasizing the value of open source principles and the lasting legacy embodied by a product like ONCE.
[20:41] - The importance and value of transparency and open collaboration.
[21:47] - Kimberly raises questions about branding, the origin of the name ONCE, and the challenges of acquiring a short domain name.
[21:51] - Jason shares some of the optional names they tried out and the philosophy behind the name ONCE.
[22:40] - The process of acquiring premium domain names. Jason shares 37signals previous experiences and the behind-the-scenes of the recent negotiation to purchase ONCE.com.
[24:18] - A symbolic gesture of their commitment to the ONCE concept and a convenient home for their umbrella of products.
[24:50] - The significance and cost of valuable domain acquisition and why David advises against doing it on your first venture.
[26:16] - Kimberly inquires about how they manage updates and product development across Basecamp, HEY, and the new umbrella product with their current team.
[27:06] - Jason shares their approach to allocating resources to manage multiple products.
[28:28] - David recounts how Basecamp was developed, and 37signals ongoing commitment and dedication to both simplicity in product development and tools that empower single individuals to build entire products.
[30:09] - A calculated bet and the essential attitude needed for Founders when pursuing ambitious goals.
[32:06] - For more information about ONCE click here. The REWORK podcast is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. You can also find full video episodes on Twitter (also known as X) and YouTube. If you have a question for Jason or David about a better way to work and run your business, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or send us an email.
Links and Resources:
Jason's LinkedIn Post About Once
Basecamp: It Doesn’t Have to Be Crazy at Work
In our recent episodes, we've been talking about the principles of Shape Up – the cornerstone of 37signals' product development philosophy. We've explored the art of crafting a pitch and the decision-making process that takes place at the betting table.
Shape Up acknowledges that there's always more work than time allows, and on today’s episode, we’re zeroing in on a critical aspect of the Shape Up philosophy—when to stop tinkering and take the leap and ship.
Join Kimberly Rhodes and 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson as they share their wisdom on the ever-present dilemma of shipping on time versus shipping perfect, and the fine balance between must-haves and nice-to-haves in product development. Plus, the value of Hill Charts in Basecamp to keep you tethered to the reality of where your project truly stands.
Listen in as Jason and David provide practical strategies to master the art of timely product delivery that doesn't sacrifice quality to ensure your team stays on the path to success.
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Show Notes:
[00:00] - There's always more work than there is time, and at some point, you must stop and ship and that's the topic of our conversation today.
[00:44] - Jason talks about the importance of shipping on time without sacrificing quality.
[02:29] - David uses a racing analogy to explain how viewing work through a budgeted timeframe helps you prioritize (and shed excess scope).
[03:21] - The effectiveness of constraints in achieving better results.
[04:18] - How embracing constraints leads to better software.
[05:23] - How the two-person teams decide on "must haves" vs. "nice to haves."
[07:51] - Constraints allow for reevaluation of the problem statement, highlighting that even the "epicenter" of a feature can be redefined, leading to scope reduction.
[10:08] - How timelines keep you honest and keep you from chasing bad money.
[11:47] - The value of "Hill Charts" in Basecamp
and why complex issues on the other side of the hill pose a greater challenge.
[12:44] - Jason explains that in the Shape Up methodology, if something isn't completed within the timeframe, it isn't automatically reintroduced—it has to fight for its relevance.
[14:08] - How to avoid the "too big to fail."
[14:21] - David explains how to use the "penalty box" concept to keep yourself honest in product development.
[15:08] - The importance of guidelines and guardrails in getting you where you want to go.
[19:08] - When should a project transition to a more formalized approach like Shape Up using the example of HEY.
[20:45] - Why you should allow for experimentation in the initial exploration phase of new product development.
[21:50] - You can read more about Shape Up, 37signals philosophy around product development in the book Shape Up. A free copy is available here. Rework is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Full video episodes are available on YouTube and Twitter (also known as X). If you have a question for Jason or David about a better way to work and run your business, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or send us an email.
Links and Resources:
Shape Up Principle: The Betting Table | REWORK
Recently 37signals co-founders David Heinemeier Hansson and Jason Fried found themselves at the center of an unexpected internet storm. It all began when David made a significant announcement: Turbo 8 would no longer be using TypeScript.
What followed was a whirlwind of controversy and social media fireworks.
In today's discussion, Kimberly Rhodes sits down with Jason and David to unpack the impact of social media on these types of discussions and the broader implications of these online controversies on open source contributions.
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly opens up the discussion, sharing the recent announcement made by David, that Turbo 8 would no longer utilize TypeScript and the resulting online controversy.
[00:33] - Jason shares his reaction to the drama unfolding and offers kudos to David for handling the storm with grace.
[01:34] - David shares how it all began with eternal debate: dynamic vs. static languages, strong vs. weak typing, and 37signals is firmly in the dynamic, free-spirited camp.
[02:23] - What led to the BIG decision to pull the TypeScript plug?
[03:19] - Dynamic vs. static, it's like arguing about your favorite pizza topping.
[04:13] - TypeScript was removed in record time (freeing the code!).
[04:59] - This debate is like a merry-go-round of arguments (and we're not here to convert anyone).
[05:48] - David shares: "People have preconceived notions about my opinions, and when we go against the flow, it's bound to stir the pot," (remember the cloud exit?).
[07:32] - Programmers can turn small details into raging infernos and social media is like a dry brush waiting for a spark.
[08:45] - Compared to fighting Apple for HEY.com or navigating the minefield of workplace politics, this is just a minor skirmish.
[10:38] - Humans naturally tend to form tribes and defend their beliefs, but internet drama usually loses its fervor in 24-36 hours.
[11:38] - Jason shares the binary nature of most debates such as air-cooled vs. water-cooled Porsches or car collectors' preferences.
[12:25] - Kimberly comments on the polarized nature of the comments.
[12:38] - There is value in discussing ideas so long as the debates don’t devolve into personal attacks.
[14:39] - How personal attacks gain traction.
[15:44] - The importance of embracing diversity in programming languages and techniques for a more vibrant tech world.
[17:24] - David shares insight from his recent trip to Japan and the beauty of appreciating different cultures without feeling the need for uniformity.
[18:42] - David reveals whether this unexpected negativity has changed his view of open source and sharing.
[20:40] - David will continue to contribute to open source BUT…
[21:26] - Please don’t spoil open source contributions for everyone else.
[23:16] - David shares a surprising recurring theme in the Rework podcast and why it’s important to speak out about your beliefs—especially those you are hesitant to voice publicly.
[24:01] - David discusses whether this kerfuffle has had any effect on the 37signals team.
[25:19] - Rework is a production 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Full video episodes are available on Twitter and YouTube. If you have a specific question for Jason or David about a better way to work and run your business, leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email.
Links and Resources:
From David’s HEY World: Turbo 8 is Dropping TypeScript
From David's HEY World: Open Source Hooliganism and the TypeScript Meltdown
DHH's post about Turbo 8 dropping TypeScript on X (formerly Twitter)
Picture this: a dimly lit room where velvet-robed figures gather in secret to make decisions of paramount importance as the fate of the pitches for the next product development cycle hangs in the balance.
The "betting table” – where the formalized pitches for each six-week work cycle are selected – might seem mysterious but we're about to unravel its secrets.
Listen in as host Kimberly Rhodes sits down with 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson to explore the unique inner workings of the "betting table" and how this process shapes each product development cycle.
Tune in to discover 37signals' approach to selecting and refining projects at the "betting table."
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Today on the podcast, the discussion focuses on the betting table and how the decisions are made about which pitches are selected and which projects to schedule.
[00:42] - Jason shares what the betting table is.
[02:26] - The betting table process: refining pitches into a kickoff document.
[03:17] - David shares the background behind the betting table and how it has evolved.
[05:51] - The betting table: passionately advocating for different views, with one person ultimately making the decision.
[06:51] - Ensuring that resource allocation decisions are made efficiently while avoiding committee-driven decision-making.
[08:56] - Decisions made at the betting table can sometimes be passed to others who are more passionate or informed about a particular project.
[10:04] - It's all about timing—unselected pitches don't automatically get another chance in the next cycle, but if they are relevant, they might. [10:51] - Jason shares his biggest issue with backlogs.
[11:33] - David shares why Shape Up is such a powerful way of working and how the betting table process provides multiple opportunities to influence product direction.
[14:38] - Jason shares how the assignment of team members works during the betting table to ensure that the available resources match the selected projects.
[15:49] - David shares the background behind aligning pitch budgets with available resources and calendars during the betting table.
[19:55] - Why so much of the betting table process is asynchronous and done via written communication,
[22:54] - When calls might need to happen during the betting table process.
[23:57] - For more background on how 37signals manages product development, get your free copy of the book Shape Up. It is available here.
[24:13] - Don't forget you can still enter #TheUnderdogChallenge by sharing the story of your scrappy team on the 37signals LinkedIn post here for a chance to be featured on a future episode of Rework. The deadline to enter is September 15. Rework is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Full video episodes are available on Twitter and YouTube. If you have a specific question for Jason or David about a better way to work and run your business, leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850.
Links and Resources:
Enter #TheUnderdogChallenge on LinkedIn
If you've been following the Rework podcast, you're undoubtedly acquainted with the concept of Shape Up, a cornerstone of 37signals' approach to product development.
In this episode, we delve into a core component of Shape Up: the delicate art of crafting a pitch.
Join Rework host Kimberly Rhodes as she sits down with 37signals founders, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson for a conversation encompassing everything from the essence and purpose of a pitch to the step-by-step process of constructing a finely tuned pitch.
Listen in as Jason and David walk listeners through Shape Up's five-point compass for an effective pitch: problem, appetite, solution, rabbit holes, and no-gos, plus insight on how to use “tracer bullets” to manage the balance between scope and execution while avoiding the pitfalls along the way.
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly introduces listeners to Shape Up, and the topic of the day: "writing a pitch" for product development.
[00:34] - Jason shares what a pitch is and its purpose in product development.
[02:16] - David emphasizes a crucial counterpoint to common practices at most organizations, highlighting the two common pitfalls. [03:12] - Striking a balance: providing boundaries without stifling creativity.
[04:05] - The key innovation of a Shape Up and the importance of avoiding extremes of over-specification or vague one-liners in your pitch.
[05:44] - Jason shares who can write a pitch, and the distinction between throwing out ideas and formalized pitches.
[07:47] - David introduces listeners to the concept of "framing" before pitching.
[09:28] - Why it’s vital to distinguish between identifying a problem and crafting a pitch.[10:25] - Effective pitch creation requires contextual awareness to devise realistic solutions.
[11:46] - Pitched solutions are more about direction than detailed execution—the true execution and implementation are the responsibility of the assigned team.
[13:06] - Pitching is a powerful tool for attracting and nurturing independent decision-makers.
[14:54] - The magic of deferring decisions until the implementation stage.[15:46] - Pitching projects is a blend of autonomy, mastery, and purpose, aligning with Daniel Pink's principles of employee satisfaction.
[17:21] - Shape Up's five key details for making a pitch: problem, appetite, solution, rabbit holes, and no-gos.
[18:23] - Rabbit holes: tempting yet treacherous distractions that offer the illusion of progress. Why unveiling these traps early is essential.
[20:08] - David shares an example of a recent project using a time zone auto completer.
[21:15] - A "science project" - the macro version of a rabbit hole.
[22:41] - How a "tracer bullet" or "traceable" helps the 37signals team understand a project's feasibility and complexity leading through a small investment of information gathering.
[24:29] - Why a "tracer bullet is crucial for prioritizing projects, using an example of using a tracer to explore billing in other currencies and how it provided clarity on the project scope and timeline.
[25:40] - Next week's episode of Rework will focus on the "Betting Table" and how the decision-making process unfolds to choose which pitches to work on. In the meantime, don’t forget you can still enter #TheUnderdogChallenge by the sharing the story of your scrappy team on the 37signals LinkedIn post here for a chance to be featured on a future episode of Rework. Look for show notes and transcripts on our website with full video episodes available on Twitter and YouTube. If you have a specific question for Jason or David about Shape Up leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 and we just might answer it in a future episode.
Links and Resources:
Enter #TheUnderdogChallenge on LinkedIn
Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us by Daniel H. Pink Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com
In this episode of Rework, host Kimberly Rhodes sits down with 37signals founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson to hear about the company's fondness for underdogs – small businesses that are scrappy, do more with less, and use creativity over big budgets.
If this sounds like you, we'd love to hear from you and just might have you on an episode of Rework to share your story. Plus, the lucky winner will get one year of Basecamp Pro Unlimited on us! Here's what you need to know:
How to Enter
- To participate, share your underdog story by commenting on the official contest post on LinkedIn or Twitter (X).
- Your entry should include a single photo of your team in action and a description of your underdog story, with a maximum of 500 words.
- To complete your entry, you must either:
- Share your story on your own LinkedIn or Twitter profile using the hashtag #UnderdogChallenge and tag the official @37signals account in your post, or
- Fill out the form on Basecamp’s official “Underdog Challenge” contest page at basecamp.com/underdogchallenge.
See the official contest rules for more details.
Other Links:Basecamp's Old vs. New Campaign, focused on the underdogFrom Jason's HEY World: We Stand with the Underdogs
Bugs are an inevitable part of complex software and aiming for complete bug-free perfection is not only unrealistic, but it hinders progress and product delivery.
In this episode of Rework, host Kimberly Rhodes sits down with 37signals founders, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson to discuss why you need to be realistic about bugs in software development.
Listen in as David and Jason offer a behind-the-scenes look at the two-tiered approach to handling bugs in their software at 37signals and their triage plan for determining which should be fixed, when, and by whom.
Tune in to uncover strategies to manage your customers' expectations while dealing with bugs WITHOUT deviating from your product roadmap
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly opens the show and shares the topic for discussion, that bugs in software are normal.
[00:27] - David shares why you need to be realistic about bugs in software development.
[01:18] - Bugs, a natural side effect of software.
[02:08] - What makes users abandon a piece of software (hint: it’s usually not a few bugs)?
[05:26] - The two-tiered (non-emotional) approach to handling the vast spectrum of bugs in complicated pieces of software.
[06:13] - When is a “bug” not a “bug”?
[07:00] - Handling customer expectations without screwing up your product roadmap.
[07:52] - You need a filter: the double-edged sword of founders operating in customer support.
[08:32] - David shares a behind-the-scenes look triage at 37signals.
[09:31] - The novel QA approach of the Toyota production line that 37signals tries to emulate.
[11:37] - Jason shares the difference between the software and auto industries when fixing production problems.
[12:37] - Yes, quality matters, but perfect never gets shipped.
[14:30] - So how do we build useful, meaningful software?
[15:21] - Breaking out of bad bug thought patterns so you can keep making software of value.
[16:47] - Who oversees fixing the bugs at 37signals—the methods they use to determine what gets fixed, when, and by who.
[20:08] - Cleaning up the tech debt: the vital importance of a measured, mature way of scheduling things.
[21:09] - Don't create ****** software—it can’t be fixed.
[23:55] – Jason discusses the idea an organization might be a bigger problem than just a bug in the software.
[24:44] - Why you should never become "too big" to listen to your customers.
[26:28] – For more, check out our Dev.37signals blog, where the 37signals developers write about some of their processes.
[26:45] - Rework is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Full video episodes are also available on Twitter and YouTube. If you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business, we’d love to answer them. Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email.
Links and Resources:
From David’s HEY World: Software has bugs. This is normal. Dev.37signals
It Doesn’t Have to Be Crazy at Work
Knowing when you're in over your head and recognizing when a project has gone off the rails are crucial aspects of successful project management.
But what are the red flags to watch for to prevent project derailment and how can you tell if a project is doomed to fail—even before you start?
This week, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, sit down with host Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the challenges of project management and share valuable insights on how to stay focused, recognize red flags early on, and foster creative problem-solving in order to see a project through to completion.
Listen in as they reveal the importance of finishing tasks before adding new ones, the pitfalls of multitasking, and the magic of setting clear endpoints. Plus they share Basecamp's tool for facilitating project monitoring without time-consuming meetings or derailing check-ins.
Tune in for practical solutions for rescuing a project before it's too late!
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly opens the show and the topic of how to rescue a project when it’s gone off of the rails.
[00:34] - Adding too much without finishing anything causes chaos. Jason shares the story behind his HEY World piece, Rescuing a project in progress, and shares the advice he gave his friend and how that applies to software development too.
[02:49] - David shares the reasons behind the “Shape Up” approach at 37signals.
[03:44] - You can’t do two things at once, every time you do you lose a little bit…
[04:33] - Clearing the decks, wiping the slate clean, AND deciding what you are going to do with 100% of your time and how it helps you avoid shiny object syndrome.
[05:20] - Why it's crucial for successful project management to avoid adding new tasks until all the existing unfinished ones are completed.
[06:11] - How the magic of deciding when you’re done helps lower the risk of multitasking.
[08:53] - In software development how can you tell things are going off the rails before it’s way too late?
[09:17] - Jason shares why you need to be tuned into those feelings of being in over your head.
[10:43] - David shares the major red flag moment for him that lets him know you’ve already failed before you even get started.
[12:28] - “The longer, the more complicated the project, the more deceivingly specific people believe they can be when the opposite should actually be true.”
[13:17] - Why you should never give yourself too much time for a project.
[14:13] - The work-in-progress unified system in Denmark for tax assessments of properties that will never be finished (it’s already eight years overdue, and a billion dollars in).
[15:53] - The easiest time to stay on track for a project.
[16:29] - The other problem with long projects is that you get more time to not fix the problem.
[17:17] - The curse of too much time and the sweet spot of creative problem-solving for any endeavor.
[18:06] - X is the epicenter of the problem, start there and THEN see how much of Y and Z you get to before your (set in stone) ship deadline.
[19:37] - Kimberly shares some people’s approach to rescuing projects and the difference at 37signals.
[20:02] - Jason talks about the false sense of security that comes from knowing everything that’s going on.
[21:12] - David shares how “sawing at the wheel” just makes you go slower.
[21:57] - Are we done yet? Are we done? How constant interruptions slow projects down.
[22:42] - How Basecamp’s “Hill Charts” can help a project’s interested parties see where projects stand without a bunch of time-wasting meetings and derailing check-ins
[23:17] - Did you know full video episodes of “Rework” are available? Check out our YouTube channel or find us on Twitter. As always, if you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business, we’d love to answer them. Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email. And don’t forget you can find show notes and transcripts on our website.
Links and Resources:
From Jason's HEY World: Rescuing a Project in Progress
Shape Up: Stop Running in Circles and Ship Work that Matters
Unlike some tech giants that have notoriously pulled the plug on beloved products (remember Google's sudden discontinuation of Google Reader?), 37signals takes a vastly different approach with their pledge to support ALL of their products for the life of the internet.
This week host Kimberly Rhodes sits down with Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, to explore the importance of longevity and trust in the SaaS industry.
Drawing parallels to iconic brands like Porsche and Rolex, Jason and David take a deep dive into the challenges of product discontinuation and its impact on loyal customers. From Ta-da List to Basecamp, listen in as they reveal the principles that drive their support decisions and why longevity matters when building a brand that customers will rely on for decades.
Check out the full video episode on YouTube
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly introduces the podcast and the topic of 37signals' core principle to maintain its products until the end of the internet.
[00:36] - David discusses the risk of relying on big companies for software services, sharing the recent example of Google killing off its domain selling service.
[02:06] - David explains why Google tends to abandon services leaving users to deal with the aftermath.
[03:50] - How to become a legacy brand—like Porsche.
[05:20] - David shares 37signal's philosophy to keep products running until the end of the internet (example: 17 years of maintaining Ta-da List).
[06:08] - Short-term profitability vs. long-term commitment to customers: The moral obligation (and trade-off) of maintaining legacy products.
[08:07] - Kimberly draws a parallel between the changing ownership of mortgages and software services.
[08:58] - Brand building through commitment and longevity.
[10:05] - Jason shares how 37signals prioritizes their commitment to customers with their core apps.
[12:16] - The challenge of balancing the desires of existing customers with the need to appeal to new customers.
[15:47] - The most profitable product in the 37signals portfolio.
[17:37] - Kimberly asks about the decision-making process between creating new versions of Basecamp versus adding features to the existing ones.
[18:02] - Some updates are like facelifts—others involve fundamental changes.
[20:20] - The costs involved in maintaining apps like Ta-da List.
[21:35] - David highlights the BIG return on investment in brand power that comes with the commitment to maintaining products.
[23:12] - How the murder of Google Reader still impacts users' trust in new Google products a decade later.
[24:06] - The high failure rate of venture-backed companies.
[23:48] - Did you know full video of episodes of Rework are available? Check out our YouTube channel or find us on Twitter. As always, if you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business, we’d love to answer them. Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email. And don’t forget you can find show notes and transcripts on our website.
Links and Resources:
From David's HEY World: You can't trust Google
In today's fast-paced information-saturated world, advice is abundant, but it can be difficult to determine which sources are truly reliable.
This week, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, join host Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the challenges of navigating the ever-growing sea of advice and how to choose the right guidance for your journey.
Listen in as they share their thoughts on the expiration date of advice, the dangers of following someone else's prescribed path, and the value of trusting your own instincts.
Watch the Full Episode on Video
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly opens the show and introduces listeners to the topic of finding reliable business advice in today’s digital age.
[00:40] - Jason shares why he wrote Advice Expires and why he and David are the wrong people to ask for advice about starting a business.
[02:14] - David shares how the Internet's craving for content leads to conflicting advice and the value of trusting your own instincts.
[04:16] - Ignore more advice than you take: turning the tide on the trend of collecting mentors and seeking advice from multiple sources.
[05:04] - The value of being outside the Silicon Valley bubble.
[05:44] - The importance of cultivating originality.
[06:15] - The danger of following everyone else's formula for success.
[07:38] - How the "Pinterestization" of our culture is diluting originality in favor of popularity.
[09:48] - The mystery behind success—Jason shares why you must be mindful of blindly emulating successful companies or individuals.
[10:52] - David discusses the “Halo Effect” and how success in one aspect doesn't necessarily mean excellence in all areas.
[11:41] - The “awesomeness tradeoff”: how the book “Blue Ocean Strategy” puts a method to the idea that you can't be awesome at all the things all the time.
[13:12] - Kimberly raises the issue of self-proclaimed experts on the Internet.
[14:13] - Why "Rework" was so successful.
[14:50] - The importance of a select set of core ideas or key values for more effective decision-making in a sea of options.
[16:13] -Trusting your gut and the pitfalls of seeking too much advice.
[17:13] - Kimberly asks Jason and David about their approach to seeking advice and executing decisions.
[17:35] - Jason shares his approach to seeking advice and what his method depends upon.
[19:04] - David shares his preference for seeking guidance from "dead people."
[20:03] - Reality as a mentor: the importance of contextualizing advice and learning through experimentation.
[21:44] - The role of criticality when seeking advice.
[22:08] - David shares why he continues to give advice and what people are really looking for.
[22:34] - How the book "Maverick" by Ricardo Semler influenced the unconventional ideas and served as a benchmark for determining the level of "bat-shitness" in Jason and David’s decisions when they were starting out.
[23:48] - Do you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business? Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email. Remember, you can find show notes and transcripts on our website.
Links and Resources:
From Jason's HEY World: Advice Expires
The Halo Effect by Phil Rosenzweig
Blue Ocean Strategy by W. Chan Kim and Renée Mauborgne
REWORK by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson
You’ve no doubt heard the 37signals team talking about leaving the cloud. Well, now the transition is complete!
In this episode of Rework, 37signals co-founder David Heinemeier Hansson and Director of Operations Eron Nicholson sit down with host Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the unexpected speed of the move, the decisions, the hurdles they faced, and the behind the scenes of the meticulous process of moving their major applications, including those that had never before been run outside the cloud.
Tune in as they share the secrets behind their successful approach and the unexpected trick that allowed them to tackle individual components without risking major disruptions. Plus, they address questions from listeners, covering topics such as backups, physical resets, and the future of their infrastructure.
Listen in for an eye-opening conversation that challenges the prevailing narratives of the cloud era and delves into the untapped potential of running your own infrastructure.
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly sits down with 37signals co-founder and CTO David Heinemeier Hansson, and director of operations, Eron Nicholson to discuss 37signals move away from the cloud.
[00:39] - David shares their surprise at the quick completion of the move and the challenges they faced in planning and technology decisions.
[01:26] - Out in six months: how the team, led by Eron, tackled the various aspects such as logging, failover, and managing two data centers while resolving numerous open questions along the way.
[03:06] - An opportunity to question existing principles and processes, resulting in a novel approach. It felt like a product launch!
[05:04] - Eron reflects on the accelerated timeline and how the entire ops and SIP team worked towards the same goal.
[06:32] - How the criticality ladder approach allowed for smoother progress to more complex applications like Basecamp Classic.
[08:47] - Eron explains the logistics and the unexpected trick that helped the team tackle individual components without risking significant disruptions.
[10:52] - Moving HEY, 37signals most critical and complex app, that had never before been run outside the cloud.
[11:23] - Kimberly opens the floor to a few user questions from Twitter, the first one from Pedro: "Did your company buy or already own your own data centers, or are you renting space in existing data centers? Is that even an option?"
[11:50] - Running your own data center requires a gargantuan scale and enormous investment, but renting space in data centers makes it easy and capital-efficient.
[14:29] - Amnesia of the pre-cloud era: using data centers is more accessible than most people think.
[15:38] - Eron shares how to make the data centers work for you and your company.
[16:39] - Kimberly shares a question from Moshi on Twitter: "Congrats on the move. Before deciding to move, did you try negotiating with any of the large clouds?"
[16:54] - David shares their unique advantage in cloud pricing negotiations.
[19:46] - Why the cloud math doesn't work: the fundamental misalignment (and huge surprise costs) that led 37signals to leave the cloud and how running your own infrastructure makes those financial surprises disappear.
[21:11] - Kimberly shares a telling comment made by someone on David’s Twitter account.
[22:26] - How the cloud marketing campaign has successfully convinced people they're dumber than they really are.
[24:49] - "If you possess the know-how and resources, it absolutely makes sense to manage your own infrastructure." Eron shares the advantage that made the transition less daunting.
[25:32] - Kimberly shares a question from Demetro: "What about backups? How do you do it now? And what if the server needs a physical reset? How quickly can it be done?"
[25:47] - Eron explains the multiple layers of 37signals backup strategy involving multiple facilities.
[26:43] - Kimberly asks about the next undertaking for the 37signals team.
[26:52] - Eron shares the loose ends that need to be tied up and the next big question for the 37signals team.
[27:46] - David emphasizes the importance of taking a breather after the intense move to prepare for future challenges.
[28:36] - “Rework” is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website at 37signals.com/podcast. If you have a question for David and Jason about running a business, leave a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us with questions to have it answered on an upcoming episode.
Links and Resources:
Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850.
Leaving the Cloud Part 2 | REWORK
This week, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founders of 37signals, join host Kimberly Rhodes to answer listener questions from the recent episode about Two-Person Teams. They tackle topics ranging from two-person team collaboration techniques to their innovative approach to team cooldown periods and the benefits for individuals and the overall project workflow.
Listen in as they discuss their journey in refining the on-call process and the power of "spring cleaning" to address unresolved issues.
Tune in to this episode for valuable advice based on questions asked by listeners like you.
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly dives into today’s episode with more listener questions sourced from various platforms beginning with Kenneth from LinkedIn and his question about how a two-person team can be resilient to vacation, sickness, and turnover.
[00:42] - Jason shares how having multiple two-person teams and time-boxed cycles allows for handling absences.
[02:52] - "Scope is this magical flexible bubble of energy that you can squeeze into different size containers."
[04:24] - A viewer on YouTube responds to David's remarks about trust in teams by asking if there are any prerequisites for trustworthy individuals.
[04:51] - The critical foundation of a long-term collaboration: David shares why trusting employees is a worthwhile investment and how to establish the right boundaries within your organization to build trust.
[08:30] - How the concept of the "trust battery" (introduced by Toby from Shopify) helps in understanding the dynamics of trust and its impact on relationships and perceptions.
[10:02] - Trust is a gradual process that allows individuals to gain confidence and demonstrate their readiness for higher levels of responsibility.
[11:23] - The next question comes from a voicemail inquiring about how Quality Assurance (QA) and testing are handled at 37signals and the interaction between QA and the six-week cycles of the Shape Up paradigm.
[12:16] - David reveals the priorities of 37signal's recently revamped QA approach with two QA team members and no more reliance on external vendors.
[13:12] - The importance of customer data using the example of the launch of a card table feature in Basecamp.
[16:27] - You are responsible for your own work; the QA team is there to find the edge cases, not the other way around.
[17:18] - QA (like many things) is everyone's job: how the 37signals model helps individuals level up more quickly AND ensures that the quality is right when things ship.
[18:26] - Justice, a fan of Jason and David's books and products, emailed a question about how 37signals handles bugs, smaller tasks, and standalone features that vary in time requirements.
[19:10] - Clearing up the confusion about the 6-week rule. The distinction between proactive and reactive work and ensuring efficient project handling.
[21:49] - The 37signals "spring cleaning" approach to tackling non-critical but lingering issues, allowing for dedicated time for focused resolution while preventing constant interruptions in delivering ambitious goals.
[24:11] - Cleaning up your own s***! An explanation of 37signals two-tier code system for handling issues
[25:41] - How the on-call rotation works at 37signals.
[25:51] - The on-call rhythm: a chance to stretch problem-solving muscles for a period.
[27:37] - The vital role of the cooldown at 37signals: empowering developers and designers to recharge and fostering a balance between ambition and reflection.
[31:41] - Do you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business? Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email. Remember, you can find show notes and transcripts on our website.
Links and Resources:
Two-Person Teams | REWORK
When should small business owners start paying attention to AI? Is immediate action necessary, or are we already behind?
In today's episode, 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down with host Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the landscape of AI and its implications for businesses.
From the impact on small business owners to the ever-present question of falling behind, David and Jason explore the potentials and limitations of AI and its present and future impact on how we use technology.
Tune in to learn how Jason and David are currently using AI and the importance of curiosity and safety when implementing AI tools in your business.
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly introduces the topic of AI and its relevance to small business owners.
[00:41] - Jason emphasizes curiosity over fear and reassures listeners that they are not falling behind in the world of AI.
[01:26] - David acknowledges the hype and FOMO surrounding AI but highlights how easy it is to get started.
[02:00] - The incredible potential and rapid evolution of AI.
[03:15] - Jump in and explore AI without feeling left behind.
[04:10] - The key to using AI effectively.
[05:07] - The fast rate of change means there’s a lot we don’t know.
[06:00] - “If you don't understand what's being produced, you'll hit the wall relatively quickly in terms of what you can do with it.”
[06:46] - How often do you get to live during a time of this much uncertainty? Embrace it, but …
[07:47] - AI is a big parlor trick right now. Jason shares why his best advice is to have fun with AI and some ways he's used it.
[09:14] - Will Jason and David be bringing AI into 37signals?
[09:57 ] - Beyond the smartphone—A potential shift in how we interact with technology.
[10:55 ] - Using three paragraphs when two lines will do…the awful business language verbose bullshit AI is currently churning out is a hilarious critique of corporate business-speak.
[13:32 ] - How can businesses safely implement AI tools right now?
[13:49 ] - "It's not like just going to a genie in the cloud." Why it's essential to be mindful of your personal data when using AI.
[15:48 ] - The REWORK podcast is now on YouTube. Subscribe here. “Rework” is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website at 37signals.com/podcast. If you have a question for David and Jason about running a business, leave a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us to have your question answered on an upcoming episode.
Links and Resources:
From Jason’s HEY World: Two Visions of the Future
From Jason’s HEY World: You can learn AI later
Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us.
Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com
Time is a valuable resource that often leaves us longing for more hours to conquer our ever-expanding to-do lists. The relentless stream of emails, meetings, and responsibilities can easily hijack our concentration, reminding us that while we have 24 hours at our disposal, we don't have 24 hours of attention a day.
In this episode of the Rework podcast, 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down with Kimberly Rhodes to present the concept of "bucketing" your time to make the most of your valuable hours.
Tune in as Jason and David share their personal experiences with effective time bucketing, how they've successfully applied this strategy at 37signals, and the unique features offered by HEY, that allow users to manage their email within designated time buckets.
Listen in to learn about the transformative power of time bucketing and escape the chaotic distractions for more control over your schedule, enhanced productivity, and a more balanced approach to work.
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Time is our most precious resource, today, Jason and David sit down with Kimberly to talk about the concept of bucketing your time.
[00:39] - David shares how he most effectively buckets his time using one of the best features of HEY.
[01:38] - How bucketing time helps teach you about efficiency and places limits on the amount of time you spend on specific tasks while still providing value.
[03:27] - Jason shares the key to bucketing your time efficiently.
[04:24] - The key to staying consciously focused.
[05:24] - The difference between moving projects forward and just “doing stuff.”
[06:17] - Squandered time creates a recipe for dread and dissatisfaction with work.
[07:19] - Jason shares why he says no to attention-splintering obligations.
[08:50] - “It's not just about time. It's about the commitment that you make, that you will not change your mind during that short period of time.”
[09:32] - Bucketing time is for individuals, teams, and organizations who want to avoid the whiplash of being pulled back and forth and into and out of things.
[10:11] - Why committing to completing is the key to moving forward.
[10:50] - Time and attention are very different things, and while you have 24 hours a day, you don't have 24 hours of attention a day.
[12:30] - Humans don’t multitask: David shares the behind-the-scenes cost of breaking the flow.
[13:21] - How 37signals has only three programmers working on features for Basecamp AND they're shipping stuff every six weeks.
[14:34] - It starts at the top—how to break the addiction to ASAP pills to change the culture at your organization for better productivity, as depicted in Rework.
[15:07] - Redefining your relationship with what's urgent.
[15:55] - The key to telling yourself a different story for more control over your time.
[17:35] - Setting boundaries can make you appear more valuable.
[18:16] - Rework is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website here.
[18:25] - If you have a question for David and Jason about running a business, leave a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us with questions to have it answered on an upcoming episode.
Links and Resources:
From Jason’s HEY World: The Difference Between Time and Attention
From David’s HEY World: How to Have Buckets of Time
Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us
Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com
It's been more than seven months since Elon Musk purchased Twitter. Since then, a reported 80% of the company has been let go, reducing their staff from just under 8,000 employees to around 1,500.
With all that turmoil, many believed that Twitter would fail completely or stop working, but Twitter's still up!
Today, host Kimberly Rhodes, Jason Fried, and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down to delve into the aftermath of Elon's controversial acquisition of Twitter, the surprises and lessons learned from this transformative event, and an exploration of the question, how many people do you really need to run your company effectively?
Tune in as they share insights into their own experiences at 37signals and offer valuable lessons for entrepreneurs and business owners on the impact of Twitter's restructuring.
Listen in as Jason and David discuss the resilience of Twitter, their initial predictions for the company, and the evolving dynamics of company size and efficiency.
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly introduces the topic of today's show, which is all things Twitter, and asks, how many employees do you need?
[00:55] - Jason shares that the fundamental point of view is that companies need fewer employees than they think.
[01:41] - While there were casualties in terms of job losses, the system of Twitter still works—you don't need as many employees as you might think.
[02:28] - When building a company, the lesson is to avoid hiring more people than necessary.
[03:03] - David shares, “Twitter was morbidly obese.” The lesson is clear: Less is more, and lighter teams can move faster.
[04:11] - The Twitter downsizing experiment is a real-life revelation.
[05:30] - In stagnant organizations, some individuals may have had "bullshit jobs" that did not impact the company or customers.
[07:01] - "Representative of the kind of company that Twitter was, I can totally see how they had six and a half thousand too many people." Plus, a former Twitter employee's experience highlights the depth of the issue (not a single thing that person had worked on ever made it into production).
[09:00] - The primary advantage of being small is speed—it’s just physics—and it's business.
[09:52] - The valuable lessons to be learned from Twitter.
[10:24] - One of the most controversial decisions made by Musk that sparked widespread debate and contestation.
[11:21] - One of the novel case studies of the entire tech history—reminiscent of when Steve Jobs returned to Apple in 1997.
[12:21] - Speaking of Mr. Jobs - how he pared Apple down to the four things he thought Apple needed to be a top-tier company (and got rid of the bloat).
[13:24] - Quoting another social media tech titan on Twitter prior to Musk's takeover.
[14:43] - “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery’—spawning competition and breathing new life into an area that had become stagnant through experimentation.
[15:25] - Twitter's complex challenge—there's no easy fix for creating a perfect 'town square of conversation' and the social media platform poised to unseat Twitter through its radical difference.
[17:34] - Even a radical dislike of Elon can’t break the addiction to the network.
[18:02] - Starting from 0 followers sucks, and building an audience is hard.
[19:41] - Going from 200 to zero is still going to zero. Many networks fail to address the emotional impact of starting over—on HEY, the focus is on the pleasure of writing without analytics.
[20:57] - You can find Jason on Twitter @jasonfried and David @dhh. “Rework” is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website at 37signals.com/podcast. If you have a question for David and Jason about running a business, leave a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us with questions to have it answered on an upcoming episode.
Links and Resources:
Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us
Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com
In a time when many companies are disregarding profitability and spending recklessly, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson have taken a different approach at 37signals. They believe that caring about costs is a timely concern and a fundamental principle for running a successful small business.
In this episode of the “Rework” podcast, they sit down with Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the critical importance of cost management in today's business landscape.
From reevaluating software subscriptions to establishing fixed pricing models, listen in as Jason and David share their proactive approach to cost management. They discuss strategies for navigating the dangers of unchecked expenses and eliminating unnecessary expenditures and their detrimental effects on a company’s long-term viability.
Tune in as Jason and David share their practical insights and hard-won wisdom for building a sustainable AND profitable business in any economic climate.
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Kimberly introduces the episode and opens today's discussion on the importance of caring about costs in business.
[00:49] - As the availability of money is decreasing, companies are starting to realize the importance of profitability.
[02:22] - Jason discusses the difficulty of shifting into a cost-conscious mindset and the common first steps of cutting costs.
[03:39] - How to ensure profitability.
[04:41] - David shares their experience during the dot-com boom and bust, which influenced their mindset of never wanting to be financially vulnerable.
[06:24] - Why smaller bootstrap businesses must cultivate cost-conscious habits early on.
[07:16] - Money buys independence (options, time, and flexibility).
[08:07] - Redefining what makes financial sense and prioritizing cost-effectiveness—even if it's not your money.
[08:50] - Companies are facing the harsh reality of survival. It’s time to focus on maintainable practices before it all comes crashing down.
[09:40] - An opportunity to rein in wasteful spending for a more sustainable future.
[10:37] - Without occasional controlled burns, the forest of technology becomes a ticking time bomb.
[11:21] - A startup in Denmark is facing the end of their runway in just nine months—how they could extend their runway twofold.
[12:19] - Kimberly shares about the caution-to-carelessness cycle that happens as small businesses begin to thrive.
[12:43] - Jason shares how hard it is to break free from the spend-centric growth-chasing culture, especially when fueled by other people’s money.
[14:13] - The "spend it all" mentality that creates a Monopoly-style illusion masking financial responsibility.
[14:48] - The habit of spending is easily acquired, but making more than you spend is the real challenge, and in the next 18 months, companies lacking a profitable formula will face the music.
[15:44] -Categorizing and Value Assessment: monitoring expenses depends on the stage of your business.
[16:30] - David shares that if you evaluate costs beyond the immediate month or year, numbers that seem small become meaningful.
[18:46] - Some costs can evoke disgust when examined closely—like our $3 million annual cloud bill—revealing their true magnitude
[19:34] - A company should be a well-run, efficient system like a perfectly prepared hotdog.
[20:42] - Kimberly shares that staffing and subscriptions are crucial to evaluate. Subscriptions, in particular, can accumulate and should be assessed for their value.
[21:47] - David shares how 37signals prices their products and how overlooking unnecessary subscriptions can significantly impact your bottom line.
[22:30] - Would you pay for multiple tools when one comprehensive solution, like Basecamp, would suffice?
[23:20] - Why paying excessive amounts for separate tools seems grossly unnecessary, Kimberly shares how the expense of five different software tools to Basecamp and the savings are staggering!
[24:07] - Jason gives an example of how variable costs can quickly spiral out of control (especially with per-seat pricing)
[24:52] - How Basecamp's unlimited plan with a maximum cap offers businesses the peace of mind of a fixed price, helping to keep expenses from spiraling out of control.
[25:39] - Predictability can be a good thing—how to assess variable costs and determine ways to fix them.
[26:59] - How SaaS software's per-seat pricing model often leads to exorbitant expenses. Plus, a story about what Twitter's shift from Campfire to Slack cost them.
[28:19] - We're spending how much money on the chat tool? Even companies the size of Twitter can use Basecamp for just $299 a month.
[29:11] - You can find out more about Basecamp at basecamp.com. “Rework” is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website at 37signals.com/podcast. If you have a question for David and Jason about running a business, leave a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us with questions to have it answered on an upcoming episode.
Links and Resources:
Leaving the Cloud Part 2 | REWORK
Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us
Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com
If you've been following along with the podcast, you've heard the mention of two-person teams and how 37signals makes the most of its software features and productivity with just two people working together—one programmer and one designer.
In this episode of the Rework podcast, 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down with Kimberly Rhodes to dive deeper into the concept of two-person teams and share valuable insights on the benefits, challenges, and strategies behind their unique approach.
Listen in as Jason and David share the importance of short-term cycles, the significance of building their own tools for maximum efficiency, and how these principles shape their company's operations. They also discuss the expansion of two-person teams into other areas of the organization and the limitations of working as a team of one.
Tune in to discover how the power of two can revolutionize teamwork and productivity.
Show Notes:
[00:00] - Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson are here to discuss the concept of smaller teams and how two-person teams are effective at 37signals.
[00:48] - Jason shares that initially, teams at 37signals had three people, including two programmers and one designer, and why they changed to two people on each six-week cycle project.
[01:33] - The constraint of having two people is not a resource issue but rather an opportunity to tighten project scopes and prioritize ideas. Direct communication between the programmer and designer eliminates translation layers and allows for efficient progress.
[02:14] - How the direct collaboration of two-person teams sharing the same workspace enables rapid progress.
[02:53] - David shares how working with web technologies improves two-person teams' efficiency and helps avoid delays caused by platform approvals or updates.
[03:49] - The significant advantage for 37signals is that it eliminates the need for conversions.
[04:44] - Enhancing the bandwidth between the two team members by removing obstacles and maximizing direct communication—how 37signals realized that having five programmers for Basecamp was too many.
[05:40] - Blowing the minds of startups who think they need an army of programmers—the secrets of 37signals' productivity.
[06:31] - New members easily integrate into the productive system, proving that anyone can embrace this approach.
[06:45] - Two-person team pairings at 37signals are flexible—some stay together, some don't.
[09:06] - Embracing the freedom of the two-person team approach by setting aside daily stand-ups and rigid check-ins in favor of a balance of oversight and support without unnecessary bureaucracy.
[10:19] - The secret behind 37signals' unique management approach—how management, driven by processes rather than people, creates a more efficient work environment.
[11:10] - How a simple set of questions and a six-week feature cycle can provide clarity while evaluating progress and fostering trust within the team.
[12:48] - A drop of product management is all you need to drive success.
[14:31] - How traditional software development approaches and large teams lead to excessive long-term planning, misguided processes, and massive hirings and firings.
[16:02] - Challenging the status quo with smaller, nimble projects for greater success.
[17:07] - Unlike industry giants, 37signals is focused on speed and efficiency.
[19:05] - David shares the difference between producing something final instead of “a long conveyor belt of partial feature implementations that get put behind feature flags, and you have the proliferation of half-done work that has never moved off the plate.”
[21:07] - Jason shares one of the biggest mistakes in business—what promises really get you (hint: it’s not to your targets).
[22:59] - Unlike traditional growth models, 37signals embraces the philosophy of "hire when it hurts."
[24:32] - The delicate balance between efficiency and redundancy! The crucial factors to consider when building sustainable teams
[27:09] - We love doing the “Ask Me Anything” shows. If you have a question for David and Jason about running a business, leave a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us with questions to have it answered on an upcoming episode.
Links and Resources:
Listener Questions Part 3 | REWORK
Listener Questions Part 2 | REWORK
Listener Questions / AMA | REWORK
Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us
Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com
On the previous episode of the Rework podcast, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founders of 37signals, joined host Kimberly Rhodes to answer listener questions and share their insights on various topics such as project ownership, attracting talent, and building a successful team.
This week, they return to address one question that deserved its own episode.
Tune in as they reflect on a significant reset that occurred at 37signals in 2021 when many people left the company simultaneously due to a "no politics on work forums" stance.
They discuss how they dealt with the high turnover rate and how that pivotal moment became the catalyst that caused them to reassess and make necessary changes to their company culture.
Plus, what they learned about the importance of making bold moves to drive progress and overcome stagnation.
Show Notes:
[00:15] - Kimberly shares a listener question from a cardiac surgeon, Jeffrey Gibson, about the employee resignations at 37signals in 2021 when they implemented a "no politics on work forums" policy and asks for an update about how the policy is working.
[01:24] - David discusses the importance of time in evaluating a decision and his pride in the decision. He highlights the positive outcomes that have resulted from it.
[03:27] - David talks about renegotiating the separation between work and home and how this decision has helped to clarify the company's focus and values.
[05:51] - The media gets involved: David shares his experience with media reports and how it has changed his perspective on them.
[06:31] - "My personal sense is that the media, in general, has been covering itself in glory for a bit now, not just on that point, but on a lot of points." - David Heinemeier Hansson
[07:23] - One of the most important and difficult decisions they have made as a company (and the positive outcomes for their workplace culture).
[10:06] - A few regrets: Jason shares that the decision-making process during that time taught him to be careful about making other decisions in a fog and encourages others to project ahead and look back before making a decision.
[11:38] - Kimberly asks if turnover allowed them a fresh start with changing the company culture.
[12:00] - A mass exodus and a major reset.
[13:22] - An opportunity to consider what matters—David explains how going through something challenging offers the chance to reassess your life, what you stand for, and where you're going.
[14:53] - David discusses how difficult it is to ask big questions in daily life and how companies go through a similar process of reassessing what they want to be, what they stand for, and where they want to go.
[15:38] - David reflects on the fruits of the company's efforts.
[16:11] - Do you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business? Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. You can also find us on Twitter.
Links and Resources:
Listener Questions / AMA | REWORK
Listener Questions Part 2 | REWORK
Changes at Basecamp by Jason Fried (April 2021)
On last week's Rework podcast, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founders of 37signals, joined host Kimberly Rhodes to answer listener questions about their approach to design, decision-making, and more.
Today, they return to tackle more listener questions, covering a diverse range of topics such as delegating projects, hiring, and remote work.
Listen in as they discuss their strategies for helping team members take ownership of their work and their tips on deploying projects. They also offer advice on attracting and retaining the right talent and discuss the role of communication and culture in building a successful team.
Show Notes:
[00:26] - Sarah McKenzie asks for tips on delegating projects rather than tasks and helping team members take ownership of their work areas as she wants to move in this direction with her small team.
[01:23] - Jason explains how Basecamp delegates projects instead of tasks. In contrast, team members are given a rough general idea of the project and some ideas for the interface design, and they figure out how to get it done in their own time.
[02:57] - David adds that even new employees and junior programmers can handle owning a whole project.
[04:38] - David shares that Shape Up's idea of a fixed time frame and flexible scope interlocks with delegating projects.
[05:32] - Let people live up to high expectations and see who does it quickly and best. Delegating a project means evaluating work based on outcomes, not effort, allowing team members to make decisions and run autonomously within the project's scope.
[06:28] - Julio Caesar from Sao Paulo, Brazil, asks DHH about the day-to-day work in a team of two, specifically about code review, pull requests, and dev to production deployments. He's concerned about the time wasted in long change management meetings and how to avoid having someone who doesn't know anything about the project approve a deploy.
[07:11] - 37signals has teams of two working on different aspects of a product, with any given feature having a designer and a programmer working on it.
[08:24] - David shares that the company has a process where someone is responsible for the quality of the work that goes out the door. There is a mentorship process for new hires. Programmers and designers review each other's work.
[08:40] - In the Seven Shipping Principles, there is a notion that if the person is confident that the deploy is low-risk, they are not obligated to get a review. Even CTOs and senior employees sometimes request a review to increase their confidence. The team encourages individuals to have a strong sense of confidence and delegate the responsibility of reviews to themselves.
[09:22] - The review process is asynchronous and shouldn't be a blocker.
[10:29] - Jason shares that although anyone can deploy work, the company has never had a catastrophic deploy in its history. And rollbacks are very rare.
[12:38] - A mystery caller asks David and Jason if they have any rules, constraints, or systems in place to help them decide when to grow and when not to grow, specifically around headcount and staffing.
[13:02] - Jason explains that their hiring is department-based and based on specific needs rather than global goals. They follow the principle of "hire when it hurts" and aim to alleviate actual pain rather than future pain.
[15:16] - Having two people is better than one—David shares an example where they had only one person in a role, and it was difficult for them to take a vacation or sabbatical without affecting the company. He also suggests that companies should consider redefining a role when someone leaves rather than simply refilling it and only hiring when necessary.
[17:54] - Jason emphasizes the importance of the "hire when it hurts" principle, especially for startups. He advises it's better to wait for reality to show what is actually needed before making hiring decisions.
[19:15] - Jason and David discuss the practice of hiring defensively, which involves hoarding talent and contributes to the malaise of Bullshit Jobs.
[21:06] - David talks about his experience of having a job where it didn't matter if he did anything and the cruelty of putting people in that position, not to mention the ding on the economy.
[23:23] - Listener Bhagyesh asks how to find team members that align with work principles and help the business grow without traditional supervision.
[23:48] - Jason says they find team members through word of mouth and by writing detailed job ads. They get many applications per role but narrow them down by talking to candidates and having them do a small project.
[25:50]- David stresses the importance of finding someone who matches their principles by incorporating them into the ad. They have been promoting Remote work for decades, which helps them find the right people and hire talent from all over the world.
[28:35] - Kimberly highlights the importance of the tone of the job description. As a previous candidate, she notes that it gives people a sense of the company's culture.
[29:01] - 37signals' job ads accurately describe the place and give people a sense of how they communicate, which is a big part of attracting the right people.
[29:33] - Do you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business? We’ll be back next week with another edition of listener questions. Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or email. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. You can also find us on Twitter.
Links and Resources:
Delegating projects, not tasks
Shape Up: Stop Running in Circles and Ship Work that Matters
37signals — Seven Shipping Principles
Listener Questions / AMA | REWORK
In this episode of Rework, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founders of 37signals, join host Kimberly Rhodes to answer questions posed by Rework listeners.
Listen in as they share their insights and experiences in running a successful software company by answering questions from podcast listeners on topics such as 37signals' approach to design, decision-making processes, product management, and balancing managerial roles and responsibilities.
Tune in to hear their unique perspectives on these key aspects of building a successful software company.
Show Notes:
[00:23] - Noel asks David and Jason about their philosophy on design systems and using components instead of reinventing the wheel every time.
[01:01] - Jason explains that 37signals' website is a collection of ideas. The product itself is their design system.
[03:07] - As with Basecamp and Hey, design consistency can emerge naturally.
[03:30] - David shares that large organizations typically use design systems to standardize processes.
[05:34] - Why it makes sense for individual designers to have ownership over the design process for small teams like 37signals.
[06:52] - Listener Paul asks how David and Jason resolve conflicts and make difficult decisions.
[07:02] - Jason explains conflicts are rare among the team and shares how they handle the things they don't agree on (without keeping score).
[08:18] - Why it's important to remember most decisions are temporary.
[08:59] - Jason shares an example of the rare occurrences when they might battle. [09:49] - Setting the standards for a smooth workflow.
[11:30] - David's philosophy: "A willingness to try anything as long as there's an expiration on the experiment and a way to tell whether it went one way or the other."
[12:55] - Jason explains why they don't need to consult each other for every decision—even the BIG ones, like leaving the cloud.
[14:28] - Prioritizing independence, competency, and TRUST.
[16:50] - Podcast listener Tim asks Jason and David to discuss 37signals' approach to product management and some of their methods over the years.
[17:20] - David shares how using software to gather and distribute information, allowing teams to make decisions, leads to everyone rowing in the same boat.
[20:19] - Jason adds that with two-person teams, there is a direct relationship between the programmer and designer, and management would get in the way.
[22:21] - Fighting hard against traditional managerial responsibilities because having managers invent work for other people can wreck a good thing (David and Jason only wear the hats of CTO and CEO occasionally).
[23:25] - Do you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business? Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or email.
Links and Resources:
Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com
Leaving the Cloud Part 2 | REWORK
In this episode of Rework, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founders of 37signals, join host Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the power of taking sabbaticals as business owners.
Jason recently returned to work after taking his first sabbatical in nearly 23 years. He and David share their experiences and insights on the benefits of taking extended breaks from work.
They cover the challenges of stepping away from a business you've built, the importance of trusting your team to handle things in your absence, and the value of returning to work with a fresh perspective.
Listen in to hear their practical advice for business owners considering taking a sabbatical and the positive impact time away can have on both individuals and the company.
Show Notes:
[00:43] - Jason shares why he took his first sabbatical in nearly 23 years and how disconnecting completely from work gave him a new perspective.
[01:49] - David shares his forced sabbatical experience when he had to move to Denmark. He shares his opinion that it's healthy for the organization's resiliency to have its founders step out.
[04:41] - Why feeling like you can't take a vacation is unhealthy.
[05:46] - Disconnecting during a sabbatical: Jason shares his experience that portrays the importance of taking time off and what he did during reentry to avoid overwhelm.
[08:08] - David emphasizes the importance of taking a REAL break and trusting others to carry on, so you can return to work with a clearer mind and a better perspective on what truly matters.
[09:57] - Jason shares why, if anything had to wait for him to return to be decided, it might be a symptom of overreliance on any one individual.
[10:30] - Kimberly shares why there's usually a scramble to get things done before a regular vacation and asks how preparing for a sabbatical differs.
[11:27] - Jason shares the writing he did before taking off.
[12:23] - David shares his realization that there are big foundational tenants of how they work that will stay the same, even if one of the principles is out for an extended time.
[14:00] - Shifting the work to get projects where more people can independently drive them.
[16:38] - Don't fear the sabbatical: remember, you are not as important as you think. Jason advises people to trust their team.
[17:53] - The importance of enjoying boredom: David shares how sabbaticals allow the mind enough space to work on the business in your head and remind you why you do what you do.
[19:47] - It's time to answer those questions! Kimberly announces that next week's podcast episode will answer listener questions. Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email with questions about a better way to work and run your business.
Links and Resources:
Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850The Power of Time Off | REWORK It Doesn’t Have to Be Crazy at Work
Dev.37signalsSign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com
In October 2022, 37signals announced they would transition off cloud services in a post titled "Why We're Leaving the Cloud."
Despite the advantages of the cloud, the downsides were too significant for the company. In this follow-up episode to Leaving the Cloud on REWORK, co-founder David Heinemeier Hansson and Director of Operations Eron Nicholson discuss the progress 37signals has made since they decided to leave the cloud.
Listen in as they delve into the pros and cons of using the cloud versus owning your hardware and some of the misconceptions people have about cloud costs and expertise.
Tune in as the pair shares insights from their experience running web applications at scale and offer advice, tips, and tools for startups and businesses looking to optimize their infrastructure.
Join the discussion as they explore the importance of getting real about the costs of the cloud for small businesses.
Show Notes:
[00:49] - David reflects on the progress made since the announcement to transition off of cloud services. And why their initial plan for help with the transition didn't work for 37signals' needs.
[01:37] - How the experience with the failed deal to get help with the cloud transition reinforced the idea of why 37signals wanted to leave the cloud.
[02:33] - David shares some tools that can be used to move out of the cloud, including Docker and Kubernetes.
[04:21] - Why 37signals opted for a new tool they built called Kamal to assist in their transition and their timeline for being entirely out of the cloud.
[06:11] - Bleeding money: The $38,000 motivator to speed up the timeline and free up cash that could be better spent elsewhere in the business.
[08:33] - The tools: Eron and David discuss the tools (Docker and Kamal) they've used to successfully move two apps, Tadalist and Writeboard, from the cloud to their new system and the template in place for moving the rest of their apps.
[11:08] - David discusses the criticality ladder they have in place to prioritize their move off the cloud, beginning with the lowest criticality app (Tadalist) before moving on to higher criticality apps like Hey, which deals with email and must always be available to users.
[13:23] - The app transition plan for the next few months.
[13:58] - Eron explains the challenges of staffing up for a project of this magnitude. He also highlights how many of their current AWS-related processes will become streamlined once they have their own infrastructure.
[16:00] - David shares what the cloud is great for, why it doesn't work great for middle-range SaaS companies, and the main reasons for 37signals for bringing their infrastructure back in-house.
[19:31] - Eron explains their advantage in moving back to their own infrastructure and why he hopes that their experience will encourage others to consider moving away from the cloud as well.
[20:24] - Blowing the notion that the cloud is the only option to smithereens: David reflects on the lost knowledge of running your own hardware and the vendors who can help.
[23:17] - Eron shares how you can lease from vendors like Deft, Digital Ocean, or Hetzner until it makes sense for you to buy your own servers.
[23:46] - David discusses the importance of exploring alternatives to AWS, breaking the misconception that the cloud is the only option, and exploring the most cost-effective solution for your company.
[26:04] - David responds to a comment suggesting they could have saved money by optimizing cloud costs and the possibly "crippling" variability of cloud costs that is a major concern for smaller companies—a risk eliminated by owning your own hardware.
[27:57] - Eron explains how they worked to optimize their cloud spend using every single lever at their disposal within AWS, but despite all that effort, they still found that running their own hardware is more cost-effective than using the cloud.
[28:48] - Do you have a question for Jason, David, or anyone at 37signals? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer it on an upcoming show.
Links and Resources:Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850.
Dev.37signalsSign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com
Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founders of 37signals, advocate for taking extended breaks from work, as outlined in their book "It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy at Work." While this practice is relatively common in many parts of the world, it's less common in North America.
In this episode of Rework, host Kimberly Rhodes is joined by Jeff Hardy, a programmer at 37signals, as he shares his experience taking a one-month sabbatical and discusses the benefits of stepping away from work to refresh your mind.
Tune in as Jeff offers advice on establishing boundaries and disconnecting from work while on vacation to maintain a healthy work-life balance and tips for smoothly transitioning back into work after an extended absence.
Show Notes:
[00:47] - Jeff introduces himself and how his role in product development at 37signals has evolved over the last 15 years.
[01:29] - Jeff shares why you need to be in the right mindset to avoid burnout and remain effective in your work.
[04:02] - Learn from Jeff as he shares effective strategies to disconnect from work and fully embrace your sabbatical with these helpful tips.
[06:07] - The two outcomes of extended time away from work.
[06:52] - Why Jeff ended his sabbatical during a meetup.
[07:59] - Jeff reveals the transformative power of taking a break and how it can lead to a profound shift in your perspective
[09:54] - The key to understanding (and accepting) that you are not that important.
[10:56] - The importance of perspective: learn to see your job is just a portion of your life, not your whole life.
[12:33] - Jeff shares his tips for effectively utilizing vacation time to disconnect from work and refresh your mind.
[13:46] - The ingredients you need for a successful work story.
[15:04] - Discover how taking a sabbatical can provide a much-needed break without a complete disconnect.
[15:40] - Jeff shares his key takeaways from his sabbatical and the lessons he learned about himself and his job.
[17:35] - Do you have a question for Jason and David or anyone at 37signals? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer it on an upcoming show.
Links and Resources:Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850It Doesn’t Have to Be Crazy at Work
Dev.37signalsSign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com
Remote work has become increasingly popular in recent years, offering several benefits, such as increased flexibility and the ability to work anywhere globally.
However, there are some challenges that come with remote work and it’s certainly not for all companies.
In this episode of the Rework podcast, 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson discuss these issues and how they've overcome them from their book, Rework.
They share insights on how to work together across different time zones, ways to stay connected while working remotely, and the benefits of remote work for both employees and employers.
Listen in to find out what remote work has to offer, along with its challenges and benefits, from two seasoned advocates.
Show Notes:
[00:36] - 37signals is as remote as they've ever been.
[01:02] - The challenges of time zones in a remote work environment, especially when training or mentoring new employees.
[02:22] - Jason discusses the importance of scheduling and pairing employees with compatible time zones, depending on their experience level.
[03:57] - David shares why from his perspective, four hours is the ideal amount of time zone overlap for remote collaboration.
[05:32] - Why it's essential to be strategic about where you hire from, given the challenges of time zone differences.
[06:13] - While asynchronous communication is useful, synchronous communication is needed to crack through some tasks.
[07:52] - How 37signals twice-yearly meetups are more of an investment than an expense, unlike the cost of an office.
[08:35] - Humans are not built for fully remote work—why meeting in person is necessary to reduce loneliness, recharge batteries, and create better team relationships.
[10:57] - Why simply installing communication tools like Slack and Zoom without changing work practices offers the worst of both worlds and results in a subpar remote work experience.
[12:20] - The potential pitfalls and tradeoffs of the new hybrid work model.
[14:10] - The benefits of being able to hire the best talent from anywhere in the world and allowing employees the freedom to live and work in multiple locations.
[16:22] - Jason discusses why some companies are requiring employees to return to the office after the pandemic and both advantages and disadvantages.
[17:46] - David shares why either way is OK—some companies thrive with having an in-person culture catering to the needs of employees who prefer working in an office, while there should be more remote work options for those who prefer working from home.
[20:38] - Busting the myth that remote work is impossible, creating more options for people, but the future of work remains to be seen.
[22:39] - Leave a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us with questions for David and Jason about remote work or running a business for a chance to have it answered on an upcoming episode.
Links and Resources:ReworkDo you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email usHEY World | HEY
Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com
Writing is crucial for communication and collaboration in both remote and in-person organizations.
But how do you find and hire great writers?
Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down to share why writing is at the heart of the success of 37signals and why they believe it's essential for every employee to be a skilled writer, regardless of their title or role.
Listen in as they walk us through the process they use to "Hire Great Writers" from their book, Rework.
Join us to learn about the critical role that writing plays in collaboration, clarifying ideas, and unlocking solutions to the problems that have been keeping you stuck. Plus, discover how the developers at Basecamp and Hey are using writing to showcase their skills and share the solutions to their challenges.
Show Notes:
[00:37] - Jason shares why the cover letter is the most crucial aspect of the hiring process at 37signals.
[01:34] - David shares how writing works to both set the tone for collaboration and as a 'magic filter' for eliminating BS.
[02:26] - The personal scrutiny filter to use before you bother other people.
[03:14] - The key to unlocking a stuck situation.
[04:18] - The magic of writing and a few of the by-products.
[05:17] - Meetings are toxic; why writing is a better way to do the bulk of collaboration.
[06:23] - Why 37signals asks you to "show your work" during the hiring process.
[07:53] - Why it's a good idea to "treat code as prose."
[08:39] - No jargon required: designers and programmers need to be able to speak a shared language for a successful collaboration.
[09:30] - For more behind-the-scenes, check out the technical blog at Dev.37signals, where the people who build Basecamp and Hey share about their work, the problems they've run into, and provide insight into how they've solved them.
Links and Resources:The 37signals Dev Blog
ReworkDo you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email usHEY World | HEY
Sign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com
"Everyone should manage themselves" has been a core principle at 37signals from day one and has continued to be key as the company has expanded.
Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down to discuss why it’s essential to the success of your company to bring on board self-sufficient employees who require minimal supervision in what they refer to as "Managers of One" from their book, Rework.
Listen in as they provide tips on identifying such individuals during the hiring process, using Basecamp's features to replace what managers do, and the fundamental characteristics of a great "Manager of One."
Show Notes:
[00:42] - "Everyone should manage themselves": A 37signals mantra from day one.
[02:12] - Establishing a culture where there is no need for managers.
[04:03] - David shares two examples of how using Basecamp's Automated Check-ins helps replace what managers do.
[05:12] - Jason shares the behind-the-scenes of using the work to find the employees who are "Managers of One."
[07:26] - David shares how "Drive" by Daniel Pink highlights the three drivers of motivation that they look for in an applicant's cover letter.
[09:20] - Hiring is not a foolproof process—for anyone—even Google.
[10:59] - The "Manager of One" concept applies before and after the hiring process.
[13:47] - Self-identifying problems and rushing to solutions are not enough; the interactions must also be great.
[14:32] - The ultimate quality of a true "Manager of One."
[15:47] - Not to dictate but to support: the hallmarks of a great manager at 37signals.
[19:02] - We're getting ready for a "ask me anything" episode. Do you have a question for Jason and David or anyone at 37signals? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, or send us an email, and we might answer it.
Links and Resources:Drive
ReworkDo you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us.HEY World | HEY
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37signals has undergone some name changes since its inception over 20 years ago: starting as 37signals in 1999, then changing to Basecamp in 2014, before switching back to 37signals in 2022.
Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down to uncover the story behind the name 37signals, the reasoning behind the name changes, and the impact a name has on a business as we discuss what's in a name.
Show Notes:
[00:46] - Jason connects extraterrestrial intelligence to the name 37signals.
[01:56] - The out-of-the-park success that prompted a reassessment of the company's diversification.
[04:07] - Do we really need all this? The stress (and necessary decisions) that grew out of success.
[05:54] - How pride in their work led Jason and David to downsize their product line.
[07:56] - Jason shares the behind-the-scenes story of the 2014 meeting that led to sun-setting their other products to focus on Basecamp (which is still in operation after 19 years).
[10:04] - David shares the lightbulb moment he had during that meeting that prompted him to fully commit to changing the company's name and business model.
[12:46] - Too many products, not enough progress. Getting everyone on the same page and figuring out the next steps.
[14:27] - Same people, same location, NEW NAME (and domain).
[17:16] - The difficult decision to stop running Highrise.
[19:19] - Back to our roots in 2022.
[21:37] - How having a unified brand name helps maintain a consistent tone and strengthens brand value.
[23:15] - No need for a lengthy cost-benefit analysis—go with your gut.
[24:18] - It's what we want to do, and that's enough.
[25:03] - Two products under one umbrella, why returning to a multi-product company name made sense from a company standpoint.
[25:37] - A brand by any other name—how much does your business name matter?
[27:34] - Do you have a question for Jason and David or anyone at 37signals? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer it on an upcoming show.
Links and Resources:Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850HEY World | HEY
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Are you working over 40 hours a week while putting your personal life on hold?
That's a common trap entrepreneurs, and executives often fall into while striving for success in their careers.
It's also the fast track to sabotage your performance and drive yourself into burnout.
It's time to re-evaluate your priorities and find a healthier balance.
Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down to discuss why "8’s Enough, 40's Plenty" from their book, It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy at Work.
Listen in as they walk us through how shutting down the laptop and disconnecting from work at the end of the day can actually help you prioritize your time.
Discover how incorporating an 8-8-8 formula and pursuing passions outside of the office will enhance your overall well being and boost your productivity and performance on the job.
Show Notes:
[00:48] - Jason shares the tech problem of scope that leads to employee burnout.
[02:09] - David shares the American habit of working excessive hours, regardless of the impact on work quality.
[04:07] - The never-ending entrepreneurial competition to see who can work the most hours.
[06:12] - Taking a stand against the chew 'em up and spit 'em out "we're at war" mentality in the tech industry.
[07:09] - You can have success, health, and family, just not all three; pick your two. Why we need to reexamine what being a successful entrepreneur means.
[10:15] - The simple 8-8-8 formula for a balanced life and a better performance at work.
[12:07] - David shares how setting a specific time to disconnect from work can help you prioritize your time.
[14:05] - 1 less hour of sleep=20% less cognitive function.
[16:00] - The role of sleep in maximizing long-term productivity.
[19:07] - The fastest drivers are those with the slowest hands, just like a calm (well-rested) company is the most productive.
[20:27] - Kimberly reveals her strategy to break her workaholic habits.
[21:50] - Setting boundaries with your clients can foster more realistic expectations and trust.
[22:59] - How to help your employees adopt a 40-hour work week.
[25:26] - Do you have a question for Jason and David or anyone at 37signals? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer it on an upcoming show.
Links and Resources:Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850It Doesn’t Have to Be Crazy at Work | Books by 37signals
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If you follow Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, anywhere online, you know they aren’t afraid to speak their minds and stand up for what they believe in.
Today, Jason and David sit down to discuss how embracing their viewpoint has led them to go toe-to-toe with some of the industry's biggest behemoths.
They’ll walk us through some of their biggest battles and what it took to stand their ground while positively impacting the world. They’ll also share tips for when, and how, picking a fight with a competitor can work to your advantage. Plus, more insight from the chapter called "Pick A Fight" in their book, Rework.
Show Notes:
[00:41] - Jason shares the reasoning behind their tendency to take a stand online.
[01:27] - Broken business models: the awkwardness of companies who statistically lose money trying to sell business software.
[02:49] - David describes how having strong principles and standing firmly behind them puts you in direct competition with companies that run on polar opposite business principles.
[04:01] - Using the underdog advantage in your marketing = highlighting the things that resonate with the target audience you are trying to reach (and make you look good).
[05:43] - Don't be afraid of picking on goliath-sized competitors, but be sure you are punching up.
[07:02] - Be careful of coming off as crass. If you're the market leader, ensure you act like it.
[08:13] - The story of the industry heavyweight that considered taking a run at squashing Basecamp.
[09:21] - The big conflict with Apple and the resulting “rocket to the moon” free marketing
[12:03] - Jason explains the difference between ignoring your competition and picking a fight with them.
[12:43] - Be aware (but not too aware) so you don't compete in a field you'll never win in as a small business.
[13:28] - David explains why having confidence in your unique and creative ideas can give small companies a significant strategic advantage.
[15:07] - It’s important to remember a company's public image is just a sliver of its reality; follow accordingly and stick with being original.
[17:42] - Why you need to keep your "pick a fight" campaigns organic, and NOT strategic, to keep them from appearing contrived.
[21:25] - How knowing who you are and what you stand for as a company helps you handle the detractors.
[23:15] - Picking a fight needs courage and humanity; injecting your principles into your marketing isn’t for the faint of heart.
[25:31] - Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer your question on an upcoming show.
Links and Resources:Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850Rework HEY World | HEY
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“When dealing with customers, especially those that are angry, there are always two tokens on the table. One is the token for it just doesn't matter. It's not a big deal. And the other token is it's the end of the world. We pick one, and the customer picks the other.”—Chase Clemons
Today, Chase Clemons is here. Chase is the Head of Customer Support and is on the front lines every day as he leads the 18-person support team at 37signals.
Listen in as he shares why every customer interaction's outcome depends on which one of the two tokens the support team chooses, how to keep things Fisher Price easy for better customer understanding, and some of the strategies he has learned over his eleven years at 37signals for providing excellent customer service.
Show Notes:
[00:56] - Chase shares his story of providing customer support for 37signals for 11 years.
[01:48] - The two industries Chase thinks everyone needs to work in at some point in their lives to be able to handle ANY situation that life or customers throw at you.
[02:25] - Chase shares what went wrong when the 37signals support team tried to meet a 1-minute benchmark for responding to customers.
[05:25] - What the customer support team learned when they dropped the time requirement.
[05:54] - Chase shares an example of how they got off to a rocky start with a customer, but by offering real people PHONE support, they turned it into a WIN for the team and a new customer.
[09:12] - Is it a BOT or not?
[10:25] - Chase explains the meaning of 'stop the cap.'
[10:50] - Humans are expensive but also friendly and can actually help other humans.
[11:46] - 'Training the corporate out of them' and adopting the Basecamp voice for friendly, concise answers.
[13:12] - How to explain things so they don't get lost in the translation.
[14:34] - Why the philosophy of Basecamp products is to keep things Fisher-Price easy.
[15:17] - Chase compares customer service mistakes to white river rafting and why everyone is afraid until they 'flip in the raft.'
[16:54] - The disconnect between what we convey through our text, how people receive it, and why the subsequent response matters the most.
[18:01] - Chase shares the lesson of the two tokens when dealing with customers and why the support team needs to make a big deal out of the problem, so the customer doesn't have to.
[20:07] - Chase shares his tips for putting everyone on the front lines, including where to start if you want to involve everyone in your company in customer support.
[22:15] - "Interacting with the customers reminds us of who is paying our paychecks."
[22:51] - The value of having an 'emergency' contact page for your customers to make them customers for life.
[25:39] - Want some advice from the 37signals support team on how they would handle a customer support issue? Contact us here.
Links and Resources:Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850Need advice from the 37signals support team on how they would handle a customer support issue? Email Chase.
Put Everyone on the Front Lines | REWORK Rework HEY World | HEY
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What is your method of connecting with your customers? Does your product or service make sense to them, and do you understand how they see it?
Our perception of what is easy and straightforward and what the customer perceives as easy and straightforward can sometimes differ, making it vital for everyone on the team to hear directly from the customers without the ‘muffler.‘
Today, the cofounders of 37signals, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, discuss how 37signals gives everyone on the team an opportunity to engage with their customers from their book, Rework, in the chapter called "Put Everyone On The Front Lines."
Show Notes:
[00:40] - Jason shares why it's great to ensure everyone can engage with the company's customers.
[01:47] - David shares why it's vital to hear from the customer without the muffler occasionally.
[03:54] - Why it's crucial to have contact with the customers to remember you're selling to individuals—and it's rewarding, too.
[05:31] - Ensuring everyone gets their chance on the front lines in front of the customers is one of the most important things you can do.
[06:40] - Applying the productivity and insight enhancement process to your team.
[07:35] - It's not wasted talent; it's a motivational, bright spot that pays for itself.
[08:28] - If you think you're too good to help customers, you're in the wrong business.
[10:40] - 'There's no way you can come away from this experience feeling like it was a waste of time. It's just it's impossible. It's actually incredibly enlightening.'
[11:32] - Being on the front lines helps you remember that we are all human, facing our own things outside of what's going on with the software.
[12:52] - Everyone means EVERYONE. Founders show up first and lead by example.
[15:14] - David shares why sometimes your authentic voice DOES need to be filtered.
[16:11] - Jason shares that you're in bad shape whenever you begin to recite the terms of service to a customer.
[18:13] - Why customer support is really marketing.
[19:56] - 600 new email threads daily, tens of thousands of potential ambassadors for your brand = the holy grail of organic growth.
[21:25] - Customer live demos a thing of the future?
[22:25] - Next week, 37signals' head of customer support will share tips on interacting positively with customers, even when they have problems.
Links and Resources:Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850
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With the year ending, it's a good time to reflect on how far you've come in the past year as a company.
Today, the cofounders of 37signals, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, discuss the growth of the company in 2022 and some of the significant changes they made this year.
They'll walk us through some of the new positions they’ve added, the challenges they faced along the way, and how they work to preserve a culture at 37signals that aligns with who they are.
Show Notes:
[00:42] - Jason shares how their two hits, Basecamp and HEY, were the primary motivators to change the way they operate (and grow).
[02:44] - How a bigger team is helping 37signals stay on track with their goals.
[03:44] -David shares that after 20 years, the extra team members are helping to ensure everything gets done without over-scheduling and a little more downtime.
[06:40] - The importance of expanding the team to be more available for their customers to help them better use the 37signals products.
[08:13] - How they are creating educational tools to help their customers get more out of their products.
[09:26] - Making the experience of buying Basecamp feel more luxurious.
[11:13] - David discusses their painful experiences with not expanding their team to mitigate business risk.
[13:04] - Jason shares what's tricky about new roles from the book, Rework.
[14:01] - How to stop replaying your greatest hits and embrace the growth experience.
[15:12] - How new blood and fresh perspectives help you test your old ideas to see if they've improved.
[17:44] - The joys and challenges of letting go and leaning into growth.
[19:01] - The frustrating and rewarding process of putting things on someone else's plate—even if YOU are good at them.
[21:49] - The challenge of seeing beyond HOW the work is done to focus on the outcome.
[22:54] - Why the culture at an 80-person company cannot be the same as the culture of a 40-person company, and what David and Jason are doing to ensure it remains true to who they are and what they stand for.
[26:16] - If you have a specific question for Jason and David about a better way to work and run your business, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer it on an upcoming show.
Links and Resources:Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850
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A small business has many benefits, like being able to move quickly, stay flexible and pivot when needed, something big businesses can't do as easily.
But, with the lure of getting bigger, sometimes small businesses fall into the trap of getting caught up in stiff language and legalese and ending up not sounding like themselves.
Today, the cofounders of 37signals, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, discuss why small businesses should embrace the fact they can communicate without running every word through a legal or public relations department, as discussed in the chapter "Sound Like You" of their book, Rework.
Show Notes:
[00:54] - Jason shares why they usually publish their writing directly — from mind to keyboard to the world—to get their ideas out there as clearly, and quickly as possible.
[02:00] - Why running something you've written through a filter often produces something that sounds like legalese.
[03:00] - David shares why writing what you want to read is vital (or don't share).
[05:49] - Big company writing philosophy is often to ensure that your writing says as little as possible but reaches as many people as possible. It's why all big companies sound the same.
[07:01] - David shares why you have to create your own interest by simply being interesting, by sharing something novel, of having a stand and a position on something in some regard that's also not just there.
[07:52] - The smaller your company, the bigger risk you can (and should) take with your writing.
[09:05] - Jason shares some dos (and don'ts) for writing for your small business.
[12:12] - David explains why developing your writing voice is essential and how you can do it in relative obscurity if you are a small company.
[14:49] - How to become an overnight writing sensation (after just ten years of practice).
[15:38] - When you SHOULD go through legal and PR before publishing your writing.
[18:35] - "We have expertise in authentically stating our observations and opinions about the business world, how to run a company, and how to develop good software—so that's what we do."
[19:22] - "Everything is interesting if you peel back the layers far enough."
[20:20] - Why it's essential to measure your writing for the internet as a body of work, not on a piece-by-piece basis.
[22:03] - The unobtainable formula for creating a hit.
[22:57] - The no-traction way to gain traction with your writing.
[23:42] - Why you should avoid looking at the stats of how many people are reading your writing.
[25:25] - If you have a specific question for Jason or David, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850, and we might answer it on an upcoming show.
Links and Resources:Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850
Hey World| Jason Fried Dev.37signalsSign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com
Customer relationships don't have to last forever. Keeping your hands wrapped around every customer will only lead to trying to evolve into something you're not is the death knell for your business.
Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson discuss the idea that you should let your customers outgrow you from their book, Rework.
Show Notes:
[00:32] - Why evolving as your customers do is a death knell for your business.
[01:37] - David shares why, as a software design business owner, you need to be the voice of the people who aren't your customers—yet!
[02:31] - By building in all the features your existing customers want, you are closing the door on what makes things turnkey for new customers.
[03:24] - Not every customer relationship has to be forever.
[04:55] - Jason shares why your product needs to evolve no matter your business size.
[05:39] - Why it's important to gear your improvements on behalf of everyone and not a few outliers.
[06:39] - How pricing models differ based on size - both of you and your customers.
[07:49] - We don't have whales because we don't have the sales cycle to hunt whales.
[10:38] - Keeping your hands clasped around every customer vs. knowing when to let them go (or grow).
[11:46] - We don't want to change our business to support companies much bigger than ours, but your mileage may vary.
[14:26] - The lackluster appeal of committee-driven software development.
[16:07] - Hey—a different animal for a global audience.
[16:31] - Jason shares why doing anything easy requires a lot of work.
[18:13] - David shares why 37signals is in the business of designing software for an audience of one.
[19:11] - Wallet-based feedback is the best feedback you can get.
[20:03] - "The only kind of software that is out the gate great is software built for the people who've worked on it."
[21:19] - We are putting together an "ask me anything" episode. So if you have a question for Jason and David, leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850.
Links and Resources:Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850
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"Getting out of estimates and getting into appetites and budgets is the single most important thing that we have instituted," - David Heinemeier Hansson
Today, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, discuss their chapter in Rework on why estimating is not the road to completing projects and what has helped them get things done in their business for over twenty years.
Show Notes:
[00:42] - David shares why it's time to accept that we're awful at estimating.
[03:27] - Why estimating is 'an amazing example of the human optimism to overcome its own fundamental flaws in a way that's just wholesomely unrealistic.'
[04:48] - What 37signals does instead of estimating as relayed in Shape Up.
[05:49] - Jason asks how much you are willing to spend (or lose) in gambling (and software development projects).
[08:13] - The worst situation to be in for rational decision-making.
[09:00] - Why it's vital to stick to your limits.
[10:29] - "Getting out of estimates and getting into appetites and budgets is the single most important thing that we have instituted as a barrier for our software development process over all these years."
[12:47] - In software development, no one—from the owner of the company to the end user—gets everything they want; staying within your parameters is about trading concessions.
[14:15] - You need to keep the engine moving because software development is like baking bread on an industrial scale.
[16:19] - You produce what you practice.
[16:57] - You don't cut corners or quality, you cut scope, and if you can't, you scrap the project.
[18:15] - Losing the right things prevents you from missing out on other opportunities.
[19:48] - Forecasting the next ten years, six weeks at a time.
[20:33] - Shortening planning cycles improves your ability to determine your next steps with more accurate information.
[21:15] - 'We're making a ton of progress with a small team with a product that's been around for 18 years - so it works!'
[23:21] - Why keep doing things that don't work?
Links and Resources:
Shape UpDev.37signalsSign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com
There's a lot of talk in the tech world about getting bigger, growing as fast as you can, and getting investor money so you can scale quickly.
But that's not the only path. And recently, we've seen that being bigger only sometimes works well for companies.
Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the Co-founders of 37signals, discuss the bigger is better culture in tech and why the human connection inherently built into small businesses can actually be an advantage. Plus, their invitation to small businesses to think differently through their open letter called, Come small, come all.
Show Notes:
[00:44] - Jason shares why it's important to note that Basecamp is interested in helping the Fortune 5 million and the small shop down the street.
[01:49] - David shares why it's important to him to be honest about the company's target audience.
[03:29] - The key to finding the right dance partner that's your bread and butter.
[05:30] - David shares the funny anecdote about when Twitter was a customer of Campfire and how they tried to "scare them away."
[08:50] - "We found our space. Can we just stay here?"
[09:59] - Jason shares why leaning into the space you are uniquely suited for and being closer to the work is an advantage.
[12:08] - Why it's essential to cultivate confidence in the human connection built into small businesses.
[13:36] - The unsustainable quest for a big market share.
[15:10] - How starting out during the original .com boom and bust cycle taught Jason and David to make sure the company has margin times three.
[18:28] - How to look like both an idiot and an oracle without changing a thing about the way you do business.
[21:10] - Where business breakthroughs come from.
[23:45] - How large companies devour innovation.
[24:16] - A special offer to help make Basecamp affordable for new customers that sign up by December 31st.
Links and Resources:
Basecamp Open Letter to Small Businesses
Sign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com
Throughout its tenure, 37signals has consistently grown without spending much on marketing.
How'd the company do this? By out-teaching their competition.
Recently, they've begun sharing their thoughts on company decisions and even doing product walkthroughs on their YouTube channel.
Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the Co-founders of 37signals, discuss the true value of sharing the behind-the-scenes of how they work and what they've learned in over 20 years in business.
Show Notes:
- [00:40] - The transparency in sharing the winding road of building your business.
- [01:17] - Why we share the behind-the-scenes of our work.
- [02:40] - David shares that the philosophy of out-teaching the competition is in their DNA.
- [03:04] - Building the company without overspending on advertising by sharing what we do through various mediums.
- [03:33] - Jason shares why the go big or go home tropes for building businesses fails to show all the options.
- [04:38] - How we built Basecamp.
- [05:25] - It doesn't have to be all or nothing: how sharing makes things more approachable for more people.
- [06:16] - The key to sharing what people need to hear when starting out.
- [07:13] - The value of practical and pragmatic lessons for small to medium-sized businesses.
- [09:01] - David shares why the lessons from mega companies might be detrimental to your company.
- [12:33] - Sharing the behind-the-scenes, how we work, and what we've learned in our over 20 years of business through our Discussing Decisions! Videos on YouTube.
- [13:49] - Why you won’t normally find the 'good stuff' in content marketing.
- [16:54] - Why Jason and David are not afraid of sharing their 'chef's' secrets.
- [18:21] - The "secret ingredient" lesson from Kung Fu Panda.
- [19:08] - Why most businesses succeed (or fail).
- [19:26] - The topics Jason and David don't feel are worth sharing.
- [21:32] - Jason shares why they don’t discuss revenue.
- [22:48] - Changing your lens of view to discover the value of the truth vs. a vanity metric.
- company.
- [23:41] - The immense value of sharing the 'true gold.'
Links and Resources:
Discussing Decisions! A Basecamp Pricing ExperimentDiscussing Decisions! Card Tables and To-DosSign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com37signals on YouTubeThe 37signals Guide to Making DecisionsRework bookThe REWORK podcast
Meetups offer remote companies an opportunity to gather away from the day-to-day for more in-depth conversations that foster deeper relationships for the team and bigger leaps for the company.
At the beginning of October, sixty 37signals employees met up in Amsterdam for the first company-wide meetup outside the U.S.
Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the Co-founders of 37signals, discuss the importance of in-person meetups for remote companies, the structure they use for their twice-yearly team gathering, and tips and insight for other companies on planning their own offsite meetings.
Show Notes:
- [00:34] - The essential value of gathering the entire team together.
- [02:05] - Why the company decided to gather outside the U.S. for their latest meetup.
- [02:29] - The changing rhythm of a global company working across several time zones.
- [04:12] - How moving the event to Amsterdam turned it into a social experience.
- [04:51] - The priceless value of extravagant experiences and live connections to stay strong and connected as a remote company.
- [06:39] - Post COVID-19: Why the company-wide meetup experience is an expense not to be cut.
- [07:26] - How the scarcity of the experience adds to its value.
- [07:54] - The structure 37signals uses for their meetups.
- [09:41] - How getting together as a group fosters bigger, more crystallized discussions for bigger leaps as a company.
- [11:22] - From the intimacy of the small group dinners to the peer appreciation event, how the meetup fosters deeper relationships for the team.
- [13:33] - Unifying the unique human experience through sharing cultural diversity.
- [15:10] - The challenges of transporting such a large and diverse group to the meetup location.
- [15:52] - Introducing the Amsterdam meetup lessons into future events.
- [17:04] - Jason and David share their tips and advice for other remote companies looking to host their own company meetup.
Links and Resources:
@37signals on Twitter Sign Up for 30-day FREE trial at Basecamp.com
Co-founders of 37signals, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson discuss decision making within an organization. Small businesses have the advantage of being nimble and able to change course quickly, so there's no reason to get caught up in the "what ifs."
Show Notes:
- 0:47 – Avoiding overthinking and overcomplicating issues
- 1:47 – Getting rid of the "what ifs"
- 4:30 – Making decisions as small as possible
- 5:45 – The advantages small business have when it comes to being agile and nimble
- 8:30 – Getting comfortable with uncertainty
- 11:00 – Calculations and projections in decision making
- 13:50 – Deciding when to pivot on a decision
- 15:20 – The Tyranny of Metrics by Jerry Z. Muller
- 18:04 – The 37signals Guide to Making Decisions
- 19:05 – The 37signals Guide to Internal Communication
- 20:20 – Using instincts in decision making
- 22:01 – Maverick by Ricardo Semler
- 23:14 – 37signals upcoming technical blog
David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founder of 37signals, and Eron Nicholson, Director of Operations, discuss why 37signals is making the move away from the cloud.
Show Notes:
- David's piece, Why We're Leaving the Cloud
- 0:59 - 37signals history with on-premise and cloud storage
- 8:26 - How cloud solutions don't necessary reduce operations teams costs
- 10:58 - What types of companies are the best fit for cloud solutions
- 14:14 - 37signals costs for cloud solutions and potential savings with on-premise options
- 15:25 - Advantages of working with on-premise storage companies that are similar in size to 37signals
- 20:08 - What the transition might look like, including timing
- 26:02 - Advice for medium-sized companies that might be thinking about making the switch
You've been working on a thing for days, weeks, maybe months and you're still nowhere near finishing. Our natural instinct is to say, "I've already put this much time and energy into it, might as well finish." Well, most of the time this is wrong. You're not getting that time back either way and usually the better option is just to quit!
Building and maintaining momentum is one of the most underrated things you can do when building products. Keep moving forward by shipping work early and often. The longer something takes, the less likely it is you'll finish it. At 37signals, we work in six-week cycles, but even six weeks is a long time, so pepper in some easy, quick wins to keep that momentum going.
Show Notes
- 01:23 - help.com/article/35-the-six-week-cycle">The Six Week Cycle (Basecamp 3 Help)
- 02:50 - Jason Zimdars
- 06:57 - Sean Mitchell
- 06:59 - 37signals.com
- 07:12 - basecamp.com
- 10:18 - There's no speed limit - Derek Sivers
- 12:28 - Goldilocks Zone (NASA)
- 18:14 - Setting the appetite (Shape Up)
At 37signals, we tend to solve problems by finding a "judo solution." The simplest, easiest, cheapest solution that gets you 90% of the way there. It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be great. It just has to be good enough. Part of this is reframing and simplifying the problem itself. And, remember, you can always turn "good enough" into "great" later.
Show Notes
- 03:57 - Are Your Lights On?: How to Figure Out What the Problem Really Is - Donald C. Gause, Gerald M. Weinberg (Amazon)
- 05:26 - Six-week cycles (Shape Up)
- 08:47 - Team and project sizes (Shape Up)
- 09:31 - Principles of Shaping (Shape Up)
- 10:40 - Fat marker sketches (Shape Up)
- 11:32 - Just set it aside (HEY)
- 13:29 - Agile software development (Wikipedia)
- 15:56 - Kanban (Wikipedia)
- 20:34 - Shape Up
Meetings are the worst type of interruption. A one-hour meeting with five people is actually five hours of productivity lost. They're also horrible at conveying information. So, why do so many companies jump to meetings as the first option. Next time try writing something up, jumping on a a one-on-one call, or just skip the whole thing altogether!
Show Notes
- 00:37 - Why work doesn't happen at work - Jason Fried (TED)
- 10:56 - Digital Minimalism: Choosing a Focused Life in a Noisy World - Cal Newport (Bookshop.org)
- 17:19 - Multi-core processor (Wikipedia)
- 20:53 - Apple's spaceship HQ valued as one of the world's most expensive buildings (The Guardian)
- 21:09 - Free Fortnite (Epic Games)
- 21:28 - Six-week cycles (Shape Up)
- 21:29 - Work is like a hill (Shape Up)
- 22:53 - Successful projects begin with a great kickoff message (Basecamp)
- 22:53 - What's in a Heartbeat? - Jason Fried (HEY World)
A close look at how we develop features at 37signals. Designer Michelle Harjani walks Shaun through the entire process of making the Bubble Up Feature in HEY.
Show Notes
- 00:42 - Michelle Harjani (Twitter)
- 00:59 - Bubble Up
- 01:28 - Six-week cycles (Shape Up)
- 01:38 - Set Aside
- 02:56 - Team and project sizes (Shape Up)
- 03:26 - Cool-down (Shape Up)
- 05:04 - Fat marker sketches (Shape Up)
- 05:32 - The Betting Table (Shape Up)
Having a calendar peppered with meetings or other commitments is horrible for productivity. Most people need at least a few hours or even days of completely uninterrupted alone time in order to do their best work. On this episode Jason and David give some strategies for creating the empty space you need to be productive.
Show Notes
- 14:56 - Slack
- 16:25 - Automatic Check-ins: Keep everyone in the know (Basecamp)
Are you doing work that matters or are you just doing what you think you should be doing? Sinking too much time into something that you should have quit working on weeks ago is an easy trap to fall into. Avoid it by asking yourself some simple questions:
- Why are you doing this?
- What problem are you solving?
- Is this actually useful?
- Are you adding value?
- Will this change behavior?
- Is there an easier way?
- What could you be doing instead?
- Is it really worth it?
Show Notes
- 01:57 - Why are we likely to continue with an investment even if it would be rational to give it up? (The Decision Lab)
- 03:29 - Scope hammering (Shape Up)
- 10:01 - Live preview of "My Side" (@jasonfried on Twitter)
- 16:52 - Getting Real
Simply describing your pitch can cause the illusion of agreement. Everyone may have a completely different idea of what you're talking about. Try sketching it out, hum the melody you want to create, or, better yet, start building the thing. Removing these levels of abstraction ensures everyone is on the same page.
Show Notes
- 00:34 - Getting Real
- 02:31 - Agile software development (Wikipedia)
- 05:07 - Bubble Up
- 09:45 - Shaping the work (Shape Up)
- 13:46 - NEW: Refined Home Screen, Participation Types, and More
- 16:40 - Kanban (Wikipedia)
If you had to launch your thing in just two weeks what would you cut out? Put off anything you don't absolutely need for launch. You can always build that stuff later when you have more information. It's best to just get it out there!
Show Notes
- 05:06 - The Screener
- 07:22 - HEY World
Henry Ford turned wood scraps from Model T production into charcoal. That company is now called Kingsford and it's the leading manufacturer of charcoal in America. 37signals was a small web design firm before it started selling the project management tool it made to communicate with clients. That's now called Basecamp. No matter what you make, you're always making something else as well and there's probably a market for that too!
Show Notes
- 00:30 - 37signals
- 01:04 - Basecamp
- 02:45 - Software as a service (Wikipedia)
- 04:41 - Defensive Design for the Web: How to Improve Error Messages, Help, Forms, and Other Crisis Points - Matthew Linderman, Jason Fried (Amazon)
- 05:25 - Getting Real
- 05:47 - Ta-da List
- 07:38 - Books by Basecamp
- 10:27 - Rework - Jason Fried, David Heinemeier Hansson (Bookshop.org)
- 10:48 - Shape Up - Ryan Singer
- 12:33 - Ruby on Rails
- 13:18 - Web Interface Design Tip: The Yellow Fade Technique (Signal vs Noise)
- 21:33 - Campfire
Any photographer will tell you it doesn't really matter what camera you use if you know how to take a good picture. So often, businesses obsess over getting a fancy office, the best software or breakroom snacks, when they really should be focusing on getting customers and making money. It doesn't matter what gear you have as long as you know what you're doing.
Show Notes
- 01:45 - camera.com/en-US">Leica
- 02:42 - Malcom Gladwell Explains What Everyone Gets Wrong About His Famous '10,000 Hour Rule' (Business Insider)
- 02:59 - Start at the Epicenter (rework.fm)
- 04:04 - PHP
- 04:37 - lang.org/en/">Ruby
- 05:11 - TextMate
- 06:41 - Jason Fried (Hey World)
- 06:44 - I bought a sauna (Jason Fried - Hey World)
- 08:47 - Fuji Film
- 08:47 - Canon
- 09:12 - Barnes & Noble
- 12:31 - 37signals
- 19:45 - Maverick - Ricardo Semler (Amazon)
- 19:53 - Semco Style Institute
- 20:10 - Several Short Sentences about Writing - Verlyn Klinkenborg (Bookshop.org)
- 20:25 - Turn the Ship Around!: A True Story of Turning Followers Into Leaders - L. David Marquet (Bookshop.org)
- 21:27 - Are Your Lights On?: How to Figure Out What the Problem Really Is - Donald C. Gause, Gerald M. Weinberg (Amazon)
- 22:23 - The Manual: A Philosopher's Guide to Life - Epictetus (Bookshop.org)
A lot of companies focus on chasing hot trends or new technology. That's all fine and good, but the core of your business should be built around the things that people will always want. In the case of Basecamp, that means speed, simplicity, and great customer service. For a company like Amazon, it means focusing on fast delivery and easy returns. Customers are going to want these things now and 10 years from now.
Show Notes
- 11:54 - Ruby on Rails
- 15:31 - Turbo
- 15:35 - Hotwire
- 20:04 - Automatic Check-ins
- 21:52 - "My Customers Would Have Asked For a Faster Horse" (Quote Investigator)
- 23:02 - The Tyranny of Metrics - Jerry Z. Muller (Bookshop.org)
When things aren't working, it's human nature to throw more at the problem. More money, more people, more time. However, this usually ends up making the problem bigger. So, do less! Reframe the problem in such a way that it can be solved with fewer people, less money, and without endlessly pushing back deadlines.
Show Notes
- 00:50 - The path to Basecamp 4 (HEY World - Jason Fried)
- 03:09 - 10x Developer (Techopedia)
- 06:52 - Tesla
- 11:02 - Blue Ocean Strategy - W. Chan Kim and Renée a. Mauborgne (Bookshop.org)
- 13:49 - Setting the appetite (Shape Up)
Everyone has more ideas than they can realistically fit in a product. A good museum doesn't just throw everything in its collection up on the walls. There's a curation process. Someone says, "no." It's in making these edits that the real product comes out, so embrace it!
Show Notes
- 02:32 - Shape Up
- 02:37 - Six-week cycles (Shape Up)
- 07:36 - Stick it to an email (HEY)
- 10:41 - Big Design Up Front (Wikipedia)
- 11:27 - Ruby on Rails
- 14:48 - Gantt chart (Wikipedia)
- 17:17 - Highrise
- 17:52 - Know Your Team
- 20:03 - We Work Remotely
- 20:32 - Sortfolio
Basecamp was in Miami last week. I sat down with Jason and David to talk about why we were there, the importance of meeting colleagues in person, and investing in culture.
It's so easy to punt on something; to say, "let's wait until we have enough information to make the perfect decision." Perfect decisions don't exist, putting things off makes them pile up, and you'll end up getting absolutely nowhere. Very few decisions are set in stone. So, make calls as quickly as possible. Don't wait around for the perfect answer.
Show Notes
- 06:33 - Disagree and commit (Wikipedia)
- 07:37 - Six-week cycles (Shape Up)
- 15:13 - HEY World
- 18:19 - Performance indicator (Wikipedia)
- 18:29 - The Tyranny of Metrics - Jerry Z. Muller
- 19:14 - Notes from Underground - Fyodor Dostoevsky
- 20:41 - Gary Vaynerchuk
- 20:51 - What's the ROI of your mother (garyvaynerchuk.com)
It's incredibly easy to focus too much on the little details of what you're building. You can spend hours and hours on something that will rarely ship with the final product. And, details are important! But, early on is not the time to worry about them. Focus on the basics first and worry about the specifics later.
Show Notes
- 02:14 - Hill Charts (Basecamp)
- 03:02 - Fat marker sketches (Shape Up)
- 07:17 - On the Origin of the iPhone (Daring Fireball)
- 10:21 - "Getting Real" design tip: Just say no to Lorem Ipsum (Signal vs Noise)
- 12:15 - Why are we likely to continue with an investment even if it would be rational to give it up? (The Decision Lab)
- 12:16 - Why do we value items more if they belong to us? (The Decision Lab)
- 13:12 - Test-driven development (Wikipedia)
- 18:31 - basecamp.com/customers
When starting something new, you can work on the stuff you could do, the stuff you want to do, and the stuff you have to do. It's the stuff you have to do is where you should begin. To find that epicenter ask yourself, "if I took this one thing away, would what I'm selling still exist."
Show Notes
- 06:07 - Highrise
- 08:23 - Salesforce
- 15:32 - Is Your Product a 'Vitamin' or 'Painkiller?' - Entrepreneur
- 16:12 - The Screener
You can't do everything you want to do and do it well. You just don't have the time, resources, people, etc., so you're going to have to cut some things. But, this isn't a bad thing at all! As with any other early constraints, embrace the editing process. Your product will be better off for it!
Show Notes
- 02:08 - tilted
- 05:56 - Jonas Downey
- 06:31 - Ryan Singer
- 06:33 - Matthew Linderman (Matt Ruby)
- 08:49 - The HEY Cover Art Gallery
- 10:50 - Six-week cycles (Shape Up)
- 15:28 - A Review Of The Minimum Viable Product Approach (Forbes)
- 17:09 - HEY Features
- 17:23 - The Screener
- 19:04 - Getting Real (YouTube)
- 21:13 - 062504.php">The "Building of Basecamp" Workshop (37signals)
When you're just starting off you're going to be surrounded by constraints. You probably won't have enough time to do everything you want to do. You probably don't have enough people or money either. Don't worry! These are good things! It's when you're boxed in that you're forced to make tough decisions on what to do and what not to do. This results in a clearer, more streamlined product. Embrace those constraints!
Show Notes
- 04:06 - Six-week cycles (Shape Up)
- 08:23 - Ruby on Rails
- 11:09 - SharePoint
- 11:12 - Microsoft Project
- 12:55 - Backpack
- 12:57 - Campfire
- 13:00 - Highrise
- 16:31 - Duke Nukem Forever (Wikipedia)
- 17:00 - Doom (Wikipedia)
- 18:24 - Shape Up
Businesses can get weighed down by things like excess staff, countless meetings, long-term contracts, etc. The more mass they take on the harder it is change direction. Being able to change direction, to change your mind, is essential to building a successful company.
Show Notes
- 07:20 - Newton's laws of motion (Wikipedia)
- 20:34 - Turn the Ship Around!: A True Story of Turning Followers Into Leaders - L. David Marquet (Bookshop.org)
- 21:35 - Hire managers of one (Signal v. Noise)
A lot of people start businesses with the hope that they'll be able to sell it quickly for a huge pile of money. While this might happen sometimes, it's extremely rare and even worse, the businesses created with this goal sacrifice so much just for the chance to sell. They sacrifice their customers, their employees, their product quality... You get the idea. It's like building a house that only looks good in pictures, but you certainly wouldn't want to live in it.
Show Notes
- 03:10 - The Imbox: It's not a typo
- 17:38 - Basecamp 3 Uptime
- 22:04 - Mojito island is a mirage (Signal v. Noise)
- 23:21 - focus-one-product-only.html">Why 37signals Refocused on a Single Product: Basecamp (Inc.)
- 23:49 - Groundhog Day (IMDb)
- 25:52 - Finding Flow: The Psychology of Engagement with Everyday Life - Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (Bookshop.org)
Last episode of the year and we're talking about startups. The new dry cleaner down the street doesn't call itself a startup. The pizza place on the corner doesn't call itself a startup. They're new businesses, that's all! So, what's so special about your tech company that you need a fancy word for it? Startups make you think of unlimited growth, huge investments, no expenses to worry about. This mindset can be unhealthy and detrimental to your new business.
Show Notes
- 02:57 - for-proposal.asp">Request for Proposal (Investopedia)
- 10:02 - Greater fool theory (Wikipedia)
- 15:57 - R.I.P. Good Times (Sequoia Capital)
- 23:00 - Hotwire
Before you start your great new business you'll NEED to hire some people, raise some money, rent an office, buy some ads, etc. etc. OF COURSE YOU DON'T. These are all just the trappings entrepreneurs tell themselves they need, when in reality, all you need is to start making something.
Show Notes
- 00:03 - Budweiser Wassup Commercial (YouTube)
- 01:28 - Dungeons & Dragons
- 05:34 - Coudal Partners
- 07:36 - Minimum Viable Product (Wikipedia)
- 09:00 - Gumroad
- 09:03 - Stripe
- 09:22 - Squarespace
- 09:24 - Mailchimp
- 17:33 - goods.com/">Basecamp Merch
- 23:07 - Fingerspitzengefühl (Wikipedia)
Taking outside money to start your business may seem like a good idea, but there are a ton of strings attached... You give up control. Cashing out becomes the #1 priority. It's addictive. It's usually a bad deal. Customers become less important than investors... You get the idea. Outside money should never be plan A.
Show Notes
- 03:15 - whatsapp-makes-money.asp">How WhatsApp Makes Money (Investopedia)
- 13:28 - xpm-2014-02-05-chi-37signals-changing-name-to-basecamp-20140205-story.html">37signals changing name to Basecamp, shedding products (Chicago Tribune)
- 22:40 - The deal Jeff Bezos got on Basecamp (Signal v. Noise)
Last episode we discussed how important it is to stand for something and you'd think writing your values down in a mission statement would be a great way to let people know exactly what you stand for. Well, you'd be wrong. Mission statements are almost always vapid, boring, platitudes that end up saying nothing at all. Even worse, they often turn people away entirely!
Show Notes
- 00:11 - Lex Fridman (YouTube)
- 02:38 - The Soup Nazi - Seinfeld (Wikipedia)
- 04:18 - 37signals manifesto
- 05:08 - 1981 FedEx commercial (YouTube)
- 05:17 - About Us (FedEx)
- 05:45 - Values (Basecamp Employee Handbook)
- 10:04 - Elevator pitch (Wikipedia)
- 12:17 - About Us (Enterprise)
- 15:41 - Nudge Nudge Wink Wink - Monty Python (YouTube)
- 19:56 - What's the point of a Reservation - Seinfeld (YouTube)
Whenever you start something, especially a business it's important to know why you're doing what you're doing. Having strong opinions, standing for something, can help tremendously when it comes to making crucial decisions and creating super-fans.
Show Notes
- 03:27 - Embrace Constraints (Getting Real)
- 04:09 - Signal v. Noise
- 04:18 - It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy at Work
- 04:44 - Signal v. Noise is closed.
- 08:24 - Citizens United v. FEC (Wikipedia)
- 09:31 - Oracle
- 11:07 - Pinkberry
- 11:35 - stone-owner-buys-pinkberry.html">Pinkberry sold to Cold Stone owner (CNBC)
- 12:38 - Basecamp Launches (Signal v. Noise)
- 14:38 - r/faxmachines (reddit)
- 22:07 - Badass: Making Users Awesome - Kathy Sierra (Bookshop.org)
- 25:53 - Tesla Model S Plaid
"There're just not enough hours in the day!" This is probably the most common excuse people give for not starting something. Well, guess what. There most definitely are a few hours you could probably squeeze in here and there. And, we're not saying you have to quit your day job to do it!
Show Notes
- 02:10 - Fortnite
- 02:21 - Tetris Effect
- 07:57 - Set Boundaries (Shape Up)
- 09:37 - Jerry Maguire "Who's Coming With Me?" (YouTube)
- 15:13 - How Millennials Became The Burnout Generation - Anne Helen Peterson (BuzzFeed News)
- 19:40 - Gary Vaynerchuk
- 23:43 - Stripe
This week Jason and David discuss the essay titled "Start Making Something." It's only when you start building something the real insights come. Until then, all you have is just an idea. We also talk about Stanley Kubrick films and Jason introduces groundbreaking concepts like perforated pizza and "The Mysterious Cat."
Show Notes
- 06:04 - Getting Real
- 17:22 - Collections
- 20:44 - Stanley Kubrick (IMDb)
- 20:57 - 2001: A Space Odyssey (IMDb)
- 21:10 - Music Box Theater
- 22:10 - The Shining (IMDb)
- 22:24 - The reason why Stephen King hated Stanley Kubrick film 'The Shining' (Far Out)
Basecamp was originally designed as a way to manage 37signals' client work and its success can be credited to the fact that it was designed to scratch a very specific itch by the people with that were itching. Now, we're not saying that building something for others is necessarily a bad way to go about things, but building for your own needs has huge advantages.
Show Notes
- 06:15 - "The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have absolutely no taste. And I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way, in the sense that they don't think of original ideas, and they don't bring much culture into their products." - Steve Jobs in Triumph of the Nerds (PBS)
- 12:53 - Hotwire
- 13:57 - Not invented here (Wikipedia)
- 14:26 - Mary Kay Ash (Wikipedia)
- 18:12 - Second-system effect (Wikipedia)
- 21:35 - Minimum viable product (Wikipedia)
- 21:42 - Making sense of MVP - Henrik Kniberg
- 23:55 - The Homer (Simpsons Wiki)
This week we discuss the importance of doing meaningful work. At least meaningful to you. What you do is your legacy, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to change the world. You just need to be doing something that changes YOUR world.
Show Notes
- 03:28 - Bullshit Jobs: A Theory - David Graeber (Bookshop.org)
- 04:37 - Drudge Report
- 04:38 - craigslist
- 05:01 - Flip Video (Wikipedia)
- 05:29 - iPod touch
- 07:46 - Rails
- 08:55 - Ta-da List
- 11:45 - Stoicism (Wikipedia)
- 13:47 - Aol.
- 16:44 - stripe
- 17:31 - Braintree
- 18:07 - shopify
- 19:01 - Paul Graham
- 19:36 - Viaweb (Wikipedia)
- 20:34 - Squarespace
- 21:21 - Stratechery
"Entrepreneur" sounds really fancy. Like a member of some exclusive club. But, what we're really talking about is just someone who starts something. Is it time to retire this word? Is there a better word to replace it? Can a business podcast go 30 minutes without talking about Steve Jobs, luxury cars, and watches?
Show Notes
- 09:42 - Andon (Wikipedia)
- 11:23 - Nürburgring 24 Hours (Wikipedia)
- 17:14 - The E Myth Revisited - Micahael E. Gerber (Bookshop.org)
- 20:51 - Monolith Titan Conical Espresso Grinder
- 23:19 - Saddleback Leather
- 23:34 - How to Knock Off a Saddleback Leather Co. Briefcase (YouTube)
Working long hours, putting in overtime, logging on on the weekends, have become badges of honor, but there's a big difference between work and getting stuff done. This week Jason and David push back against this idea of workaholism.
Show Notes
- 01:37 - Six-week cycles (Shape Up)
- 02:46 - On Apple's monopoly power to destroy HEY (Signal v. Noise)
- 09:10 - Oura Ring
- 10:47 - Test-driven development (Wikipedia)
- 12:50 - google-benefits.html">An Inside Look at Google's Best Employee Perks (Inc.)
- 17:12 - Paid Time Off (Basecamp Employee Handbook)
- 24:19 - Summer Hours (Basecamp Employee Handbook)
Basecamp has always prided itself on staying small and lean. But, with two major products, we're going to change that. The question when looking to grow, however, is "why?"
Show Notes
- 03:08 - Highrise
- 03:09 - Campfire
- 03:10 - Backpack
- 07:18 - Software as a service (SaaS)
- 09:41 - Slack: Getting Past Burnout, Busywork, and the Myth of Total Efficiency - Tom DeMarco
- 13:33 - Hill Charts
- 14:23 - Ryan Singer
- 17:52 - Citizen Kane
- 18:15 - "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell." - Edward Abbey
People put too much stock in making long-term plans, but let's call them what they really are: guesses. On this episode we discuss deadlines, business plans, world domination, and Dungeons & Dragons.
Show Notes
- 01:06 - Dungeons & Dragons
- 01:20 - Mind Flayer
- 02:00 - Six-week cycles (Shape Up)
- 05:54 - The meaning of a bet (Shape Up)
- 07:23 - Shape Up
- 08:32 - Setting the appetite (Shape Up)
- 09:57 - "Plans are useless, but planning is indispensable." - Dwight D. Eisenhower
- 12:29 - Carlos Segura - inc.com/">Segura, Inc.
- 12:43 - S Corporations
- 15:24 - The deal Jeff Bezos got on Basecamp (Signal v. Noise)
- 16:51 - Blue Origin
- 19:04 - “The reason that most of us are unhappy most of the time is that we set our goals—not for the person we’re going to be when we reach them—we set our goals for the person we are when we set them.” - Jim Coudal quoting Dan Gilbert (Creative Mornings Chicago)
- 19:12 - Coudal Partners
- 19:12 - Field Notes
- 20:59 - Key Performance Indicator (KPI)
- 21:01 - Objectives and Key Results (OKR)
"Fail early and often." You hear this all the time in the tech start-up world. Failure has long been held up as a badge of honor for new start-ups. This week Jason and David take on this idea and make a pitch for learning from your successes instead of your mistakes.
Show Notes
- 06:22 - Backpack
- 06:29 - Highrise
- 10:39 - Adobe Creative Cloud
- 12:27 - Campfire
- 12:31 - Slack
- 16:28 - HEY for Domains
- 18:16 - Work at Basecamp
- 20:33 - Hire good writers (Getting Real)
- 20:38 - Hire managers of one (Signal v. Noise)
- 23:09 - Microsoft Project
- 27:04 - Remote: Office Not Required
We continue our revisit of Rework with the essay, "Ignore the Real World." Topics include new ideas failing, risk avoidance, and Marvel movies.
Show Notes
- 09:13 - HEY
- 16:49 - Black Widow
- 19:54 - Ruby on Rails
In this episode we dive deep into the introduction and chapter 1 of Rework, The New Reality.
Show Notes
- 02:09 - It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy at Work
- 02:14 - Remote: Office Not Required
- 05:15 - Zoom
- 05:35 - rework@37signals.com
- 07:52 - JavaScript
- 11:18 - HEY
- 11:53 - Ruby on Rails
- 12:37 - Shopify
- 13:07 - GitHub
- 13:07 - Airbnb
- 13:08 - Twitch
- 18:05 - Stripe Atlas
- 18:37 - Squarespace
- 20:50 - Upwork
- 28:11 - FAANG
- 30:50 - Bookshop.org
Rework is coming back for season 2 this September! In the meantime here's a little bonus to tide you over. Back in the late 90s and early 2000s, during the dot com bubble, Basecamp cofounders, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson both had run-ins with venture-backed tech startups. These experiences would form many of the ideas later published in Rework.
Show Notes
- 03:27 - Leo Burnett
- 03:54 - Daily Rush
- 04:03 - 37signals
- 04:15 - Quokka (the animal)
- 04:54 - The Around Alone
- 11:38 - Basecamp
- 18:18 - Ernest Kim
- 18:18 - inc.com/">Carlos Segura
- 19:12 - Copenhagen Business School
- 19:40 - Competitive Strategy: Techniques for Analyzing Industries and Competitors by Michael Porter
- 21:34 - Bitcoin
- 21:34 - Ethereum
- 21:34 - NFT
- 22:34 - Skype
- 22:35 - Zendesk
- 22:39 - Ruby on Rails
- 24:24 - Ammon Haggerty
- 24:40 - Josh Ulm
- 24:59 - John Johnson
- 25:36 - An Oral History of Quokka, The Company That (Almost) Shook Up Sports - Sportico
Tibet Sprague is a "communitarian technologist" with a vision for building companies and communities outside of investor-driven, for-profit systems. His current project is Hylo, an online platform for collaboration that's governed by its users.
Show Notes
"Truss the Process" and "Success is Surviving," our episodes on pay equity - 00:18
"Coops: The Next Generation" and "Exit to Community," our episodes about cooperatives - 00:21
Hylo - 00:29
Tibet Sprague on Twitter - 1:08Terran Collective - 1:30
NRG acquired One Block Off the Grid (renamed Pure Energies Group) in 2014 - 4:10
Holo - 7:48
Announcement about Holo giving Hylo to Terran Collective - 9:08
Sociocracy for All - 17:30
prem-mass-vaccination-site-gary-roosevelt-high-school-tt-0413-20210414-w72si2wuovfthbbg2avk2lvhha-story.html">"Mass vaccination site in Gary draws Chicago-area residents" (Chicago Tribune) - 24:32
"Gary, Indiana" from The Music Man - 24:42
Tibet's List of Resources
ProsocialReinventing OrganizationsFree, Fair, and Alive: The Insurgent Power of the CommonsEmergent Strategy
More books, articles, and resources can be found on Terran Collective's website.
How Basecamp's Michael Berger approached accessibility during the development of HEY, including collaborating with a blind Basecamp user on accessible features that ultimately improved the experience for everyone.
Show Notes
Michael Berger on Twitter - 00:52
Web Content Accessibility Guidelines - 3:49
Apple's Voiceover - 5:32
JAWS - 5:39
NVDA - 5:41
Scott Ballard-Ridley on Twitter - 12:47
HEY for Work - 18:32
Ruby on Rails Core Team - 23:33
thoughtbot - 23:44
Aspiritech - 24:12
CSUN Assistive Technology Conference - 26:29
HEY's Accessibility page | Michael's write-up of his work on HEY - 29:51
Wailin's tweet complaining that Shaun doesn't insert enough airhorn - 30:10
Adam Stoddard on Twitter - 30:43
Manos: The Hands of HEY - 30:50
When Robin Petravic and Cathy Bailey bought Heath Ceramics from the company's founders in 2003, they promised to keep the dinnerware maker and its manufacturing workforce in its home base of Sausalito, California. The pandemic provided an opportunity for Heath to recommit to this pledge and create a Living Wage Initiative, which in turn prompted a radical overhaul of the company's 401(k) program. Robin Petravic comes on Rework to talk about walking the walk on equity, resilience, and equipping Heath for the next 200 years.
Robin and Cathy wrote about the Living Wage Initiative in Heath's January newsletter.
Show Notes
Heath Ceramics website | Instagram - 1:02
"Edith Heath: A Rebellion in Clay" (KCET, 2019) - 1:14"A New Year, 166 New Owners" - 6:30
"Marin County's intensive effort drove down a COVID surge among Latino residents" (San Jose Mercury News) - 10:46
MIT Living Wage Calculator - 15:46
Eau de Space - 25:16
Upsolve makes a free tool that automates the process of filing for Chapter 7 personal bankruptcy. The organization is an atypical tech startup that's also an atypical non-profit. Co-founder and CTO Mark Hansen comes on the show to talk about how Upsolve alternately embraces and subverts the norms of the tech and non-profit worlds, and why the "right" corporate structure won't necessarily prevent an organization from causing harm.
Show Notes
Upsolve website | Twitter - 00:40
Mark Hansen on Twitter - 00:48
"HHS failed to heed many warnings that HealthCare.gov was in trouble" (Washington Post, February 2016) - 1:52
Rohan Pavuluri on Twitter - 2:28
Jonathan Petts on Twitter - 2:29
A 2014 study by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau found that many payday loans trap borrowers in revolving debt - 3:45
Upsolve's explanation of a bankruptcy discharge - 5:37
Upsolve's explanation of the "meeting of creditors" - 8:17
The Legal Services Corporation's Technology Initiative Grant Program - 10:17
Philadelphia Legal Assistance - 10:22
Certified B Corporation - 10:32
Sidewalk Labs - 12:00
"YC-backed Upsolve is automating bankruptcy for everyone" (TechCrunch, January 2019) - 13:28
Yvon Chouinard's 2019 interview in Fast Company - 20:28
In 2016, software infrastructure consulting firm Truss made salaries transparent across the entire company. Salaries were revealed internally for all employees, from the executives on down. In this episode, Truss CEO Everett Harper and COO Jen Leech talk about why and how they approached their salary transparency project, and how they've adapted this system as the company has grown.
For more details, check out Jen's write-ups of the project on the Truss company blog: "Why We Made Salary Transparent" and "How We Made Salaries Transparent."
Show Notes
Truss website | LinkedIn | GitHub | Twitter - 00:30
Everett Harper's bio | @everettharper | Jen Leech's bio | @jennifermleech - 1:20
Buffer's policy on open salaries - 3:27
"The True Story of the Gender Pay Gap," a 2016 Freakonomics Radio episode - 3:47
"Demystifying the Gender Pay Gap: Evidence from Glassdoor Salary Data" - 4:52
Dreyfus model of skill acquisition (Wikipedia) - 6:43
Imagine if gig workers like rideshare drivers or grocery shoppers were compensated for their labor through ownership stakes in the Lyfts and Instacarts of the world. Imagine if companies distributed profits not just to founders and investors, but to their employees and customers. Start.coop is an accelerator for startups that are doing just this—reimagining concepts like scale, investment, and governance under a cooperative ownership structure, and trying to create a more equitable economic system in the process.
Show Notes
Exit to Community - 00:13
Start.coop | Twitter | LinkedIn - 00:37
Greg Brodsky on Twitter | LinkedIn - 00:54
Greg's dad, Howard Brodsky - 1:25
Greg was on the board of directors of the Cooperative Development Institute, a nonprofit for coops - 1:38
Start.coop's graduates - 2:29
Jessica Mason on Twitter | LinkedIn - 2:54
40 Acre Cooperative - 5:31
in-wealth-by-race-and-ethnicity-in-the-2019-survey-of-consumer-finances-20200928.htm">The U.S. Federal Reserve says the typical white American family has 8x the wealth of the typical Black family - 6:50
Equitable Economy Fund - 7:20
Driver's Seat Cooperative - 11:11
Twitter discussion about imagining Apple as a coop - 12:56
Basecamp co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson talk about HEY World, a new feature of the HEY email service where customers can create a super simple blog. HEY World has no templates, no endless scroll, no ads, no trackers, and no JavaScript. It represents Basecamp's attempt to create a Web 1.0 typewriter for our current digital age. In this episode, we talk about the return of blogging, countering abuse, and the sunsetting of Basecamp's long-running Signal v. Noise blog. Stay tuned until the end for a chance to win some Basecamp bucks! And by Basecamp bucks, we mean actual American dollars.
Show Notes
HEY - 00:17
Jason's post announcing HEY World - 00:22
Signal v. Noise - 00:34
The dumpster fire project - 2:02
Jason on HEY World - 3:10
David on HEY World - 3:13
"Pick A Fight (on Twitter)," a vintage episode about David's relationship with Twitter - 3:28
"100% Facebook-Free," our episode about getting Basecamp off Facebook and Instagram - 4:40
"Two Weeks," our episode about launching HEY and running afoul of Apple - 5:21
Berkshire Hathaway's website - 18:23
The.Ink, Anand Giridharadas' newsletter - 18:45
The Lefsetz Letter - 20:21
HEY's Screener - 27:20
HEY's Shield - 27:44
Basecamp's "Until the end of the Internet" policy - 30:56
Greymatter - 31:34
David and Jason talk about how they met via email in this episode - 31:58
Equilibria, a company that makes CBD products for women, has a team of dedicated dosage specialists who do one-on-one consultations with customers. During the pandemic, this team has taken on an unprecedented amount of customer support—bearing witness to the heightened stress and anxiety that their customers are feeling around job security, caregiving, and family life. Equilibria's Marcy Capron Vermillion and Maia Reed come on Rework to talk about helping this team maintain their own stores of emotional energy.
Show Notes
"Women Tending to Their Basic Needs Is Not Self-Care" by Meredith Ethington - 00:12
moms-coronavirus.html">"This Is A Primal Scream," the New York Times' special report on American mothers' mental health crisis - 1:02
Equilibria website | Instagram - 1:13
Marcy Capron-Vermillion - 2:20
Maia Reed - 3:39
Illinois Women in Cannabis - 4:25
Ellementa - 4:28
Laura van Dernoot Lipsky of The Trauma Stewardship Institute - 12:12
A career climbing the ladder in tech and software left Jesse Noller feeling disillusioned and isolated. He found connection, community, and purpose in a different kind of complex distributed system—mushrooms. Today he's the proprietor of a spore-to-table business called The Humble Fungus. (Content warning: This episode mentions suicide.)
For free and confidential emotional support, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255.
Show Notes
Jesse Noller on Twitter | Instagram - 1:02
The Humble Fungus website | YouTube | Facebook - 1:10
Community Food Share in Louisville, CO - 3:32
The Humble Fungus "About Us" page - 14:12
The Humble Fungus on Patreon - 20:50
Basecamp recently set out to do a carbon accounting, looking at the company's emissions, as well as meaningful ways to offset and mitigate those impacts. Jane Yang and Elizabeth Gramm, the two Basecampers who took on this daunting and nuanced project, come on the show to discuss not just the work itself, but how they've been processing the fear, skepticism, grief, and hope that come with trying to address the climate crisis.
Show Notes
The United Nations 2018 special report on global warming of 1.5ºC (PDF) - 1:52
"Why Air Quality Matters," David Heinemeier Hansson's presentation to the company about indoor air quality - 2:26
The Uninhabitable Earth by David Wallace-Wells - 4:01
Explainer on Scope 1, 2, and 3 emissions - 5:46
Basecamp's former office in Chicago - 6:22
"Spending in the Clouds," our episode about looking for savings on Basecamp's cloud services - 6:59
Books by Basecamp - 10:18
"Towards carbon negativity," Jane's first post about the project on Signal v. Noise - 10:56
change-bank-investment.html">"Want to Do Something About Climate Change? Follow the Money" (NYT) - 13:05
"You Never Forget George Pappageorge," our episode about closing the Chicago office - 16:25
Microsoft's Sustainability Calculator for its cloud services - 17:59
"Basecamp has offset our cumulative emissions through 2019," Jane's follow-up post on SvN - 22:09
Cool Effect - 25:05
GoClimate - 25:06
ClimateAction.Tech - 26:08
Wholegrain Digital - 26:35
"The Chicago plant that sparked a hunger strike amid environmental racism claims" (The Guardian) - 27:04
350.org - 27:38
Elizabeth's Reading Recommendations
A change-after-pandemic.html">January 2021 article by David Wallace-Wells about the pandemic and climate change
What We Think About When We Try Not To Think About Global Warming, Per Espen Stoknes
Hope and Grief in the Anthropocene, Lesley Head
The Sixth Extinction, Elizabeth Kolbert
The Ecology of Wisdom, Arne Naess
The Mushroom at the End of the World, Anna Tsing
The Overstory, Richard Powers
What Are You Going Through, Sigrid Nunez Braiding Sweetgrass, Robin Wall Kimmerer
Comfort and joy were in short supply this year, but we're doing our best to end 2020 on a cozy note. Merissa of Basecamp support talks about surprising customers with gifts throughout the year, whether it's to thank them for their fandom or apologize for a disappointing experience. Then Wailin shares a few items from her 2020 gift guide, and Joan of Basecamp customer support reviews a scented candle. Wishing all of our listeners a restful holiday season, and we'll see you in 2021!
Show Notes
Fabric in Flames - 00:35
love languages - 3:15
goods.com/">Basecamp merch store - 6:15
Elami - 10:42
Voluspa - 14:29
Packed With Purpose - 15:32
Gift Boss - 15:58
Greetabl - 16:15
Barefoot Dreams blankets - 17:13
Minky Couture blankets - 17:19
Oprah's Favorite Things - 17:35
Barefoot Dreams CozyChic Lite Circle Cardigan - 19:05
Glerups slippers - 19:28
Solo Stove - 20:06
Corksicle Classic stemless wine tumbler - 20:25
Parks Project x Rumpl sherpa blanket - 20:46
Spindrift subscription - 21:25
Mason Cash cane mixing bowls - 21:46
Neogen A-Clear Soothing Clear Spot Patch - 23:06
Ello Tidal 20-ounce Glass Tumbler with Lid - 23:58
Joan Stewart on Twitter - 24:35
Shaun reviewed the Boy Smells "Polyamberous" candle in our previous episode - 24:48
Kacey Musgraves "Slow Burn" collection - 25:53
IKEA's special edition candles - 26:18
"Amber" by 311 - 27:45
HEY launch, App Store, we can’t take it anymoreAntitrust, masks a must, let’s go eat the upper crustComfy pants, TikTok dance, POTUS rants, protest chantsCOVID cruise can't disembark, David's back in Denmark
We didn’t start the fire—well, in this case we did.
Show Notes
Andy Didorosi on Twitter - 00:09
"Meet Andy," our episode about Andy joining Basecamp - 00:18
Signal v. Noise - 00:33
Adam Stoddard on Twitter - 1:36
HEY - 2:22
H.E.R.L. - 2:50
The dumpster fire livestream - 4:38
Detroit Bus Company - 5:59
Nathan on Twitter - 6:48
Raspberry Pi - 9:10
Recycle Here (Facebook) - 12:30
Ben Wolf of Ferrous Wolf Fabrication (Instagram) - 14:42
Monica Dubray - 14:51
Eric Froh (Instagram) - 14:53
Josh Bacon on Twitter - 15:03
"The Making of a Dumpster Fire" (SvN) - 25:31
Polyamberous candle from Boy Smells - 29:08
Kacey Musgraves collab with Boy Smells - 29:33
Basecamp is winding down a busy year with one more thing: the rollout of its HEY email service for the workplace. Co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson talk about privacy, marketing, onboarding, and the other considerations that went into making HEY for Work. They also reflect on the roller coaster ride of the last year.
Show Notes
HEY - 00:41
HEY for Work - 00:46
Jason Fried on Twitter - 00:56
DHH on Twitter - 00:57
HEY's spy pixel blocker - 14:12
"The Spy Who Emailed Me," one of our episodes about tracking pixels - 14:35
"Two Weeks," our episode about the chaotic launch of HEY - 17:05
"Winston Sat At His Computer," one of our episodes about worker surveillance - 19:24
"Don't Promise" (Signal v. Noise) - 27:16
DHH did not write this copy about hygge for the Danish tourism board - 32:48
In the last several years, a group of Basecamp customer support representatives has developed an expertise around "on-call support," or tackling some of the thornier technical issues that require diving into the code base of our applications. This team of self-taught specialists grew out of curiosity, creativity, and an approach to programming that emphasizes fixing over building.
Show Notes
Basecamp's customer support team - 00:13
Jim Mackenzie on Twitter - 00:55
Jamis Buck on Twitter - 3:18
Jamis adapted his original Basil & Fabian on-call notes into a series that teaches newbies about algorithms and computer science. You can read Basil & Fabian on Jamis' website or on Kindle - 3:27
Dan Kim is now a programmer on Basecamp's Android team - 5:57
help.com/article/217-templates">how to make templates in Basecamp 2 - 6:30
Wikipedia's explanation of traceroutes - 13:54
Kibana is another technical tool used at Basecamp - 14:55
our episode about holding office hours - 16:05
Rosa on Twitter - 16:07
Since releasing Shape Up, the book by Basecamp's Ryan Singer about our approach to product development, we've heard from other companies who've also adopted this methodology. David Nichols is the co-founder and CEO of Loupe, a company that helps design machines for clients in sectors from aerospace to packaging. He comes on Rework to talk about using Shape Up principles with clients who come from a world of complex contracts and project overruns.
Show Notes
Our previous episode, "Shape Up: The Print Edition" - 00:11
Shape Up - 00:16
David Nichols on Twitter - 00:45
Loupe - 00:49
Six-week cycles - 7:56
Circuit breaker - 13:50
Loupe's explanation of how they "Ship in Six" - 17:30
Our episode introducing Shape Up - 24:52
We featured Hearth & Hammer on the episode "Bubble Wrap & Prayers" - 28:02
In 2019, Basecamp released Shape Up, a digital book by head of product strategy Ryan Singer about our approach to product development. Since then, Ryan has added sections in response to reader feedback and released a print edition. Ryan comes back on Rework to talk about connecting with other business owners using Shape Up, and how he approached the editing, design, and distribution of the physical book without going through traditional publishing channels.
Show Notes
Our episode introducing Shape Up - 00:10
Ryan Singer's Twitter | website | newsletter - 00:13
Shape Up: Stop Running in Circles and Ship Work that Matters - 00:16
Basecamp's other books - 00:43
Six-week cycles - 3:08
Setting the appetite - 3:36
Principles of shaping - 4:29
Hill charts - 5:20
What about bugs? - 9:48
HEY - 10:33
Making new products - 11:19
goods.com/">Basecamp merch store - 16:21
Notability - 16:57
Ryan's live sessions are on the Shape Up page - 17:24
Ryan's Shape Up Live session with Adam Wathan of Tailwind CSS - 19:34
Unlimited paid time off is a common perk in the tech industry, but as one company discovered, an open-ended vacation policy led to confusion and even burnout. Dan Jimenez of Chatbooks comes on Rework to talk about how they shifted from unlimited to mandatory PTO, and how they're recalibrating expectations for work, productivity, and rest during a turbulent time.
Show Notes
"How the 'Knives Out' Costume Designer Chose Chris Evans' Perfect Sweater" (The Hollywood Reporter) - 1:50
"27 Days in Tokyo Bay: What Happened on the Diamond Princess" (Wired) - 2:16
Wailin and Shaun discussed how they spent their sabbaticals in "The Bean Machine" - 2:51
Basecamp's PTO policy - 3:11
We addressed our PTO policy change in "It Doesn't Have to be Crazy at Work - Part 1" and "Rework Mailbag 1 - Part 2" - 3:25
Dan Jimenez on LinkedIn | Twitter - 3:42
Chatbooks - 3:45
Nate Quigley, CEO of Chatbooks - 5:49
Rachel Hofstetter, CMO at Chatbooks - 18:37
Dan Jimenez's Twitter thread about changing Chatbooks' PTO policy - 19:36
"What is Hygge?" - 23:35
John Wick - 24:18
Boy Smells - 24:35
literary candles from Hearth & Hammer - 24:39
We featured Hearth & Hammer on the episode "Bubble Wrap and Prayers" - 24:42
A24 x Joya film genre candles - 24:47
pumpkin-3-wick-candle-026137690.html">Bath & Body Works white pumpkin candle - 26:42
Shaun gets his togarashi from Third Street Market in Whitefish, Montana - 27:07
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