Last week, France’s president Emmanuel Macron threw the EU bubble into turmoil by suggesting that Europe should not become the United States’ “vassal” over Taiwan. But is the controversy overshadowing the possibility that he could be right? This week, Mark Leonard welcomes two ECFR colleagues: director of the Wider Europe programme and former French diplomat, Marie Dumoulin, and head of the Paris office and expert in French and US foreign policy, Célia Belin. . What explains Macron’s way of thinking and is there a domestic context to his comments? And what do the strong reactions say about how Europeans view strategic autonomy in the context of the war in Ukraine? This podcast was recorded on 17 April 2023. Bookshelf: The Cat and the General by Nino Haratischwili Living with our Dead by Delphine Horvilleur

Although European leaders have stepped up in many ways to support Ukraine, the war has also laid bare Europe’s profound dependence on the United States. This reality was at the heart of French president Emmanuel Macron’s recent call for more “strategic autonomy”, which stirred a new debate over the transatlantic power imbalance. It was also the topic of a new publication, “The Art of Vassalisation”, from ECFR’s research director, Jeremy Shapiro, and senior policy fellow and head of the Berlin office, Jana Puglierin, who join week Mark Leonard for this week’s episode. What factors influence “vassalisation”, and is it really more beneficial for the Americans? And how seriously are Europeans taking the risk of a Republican victory in 2024? This podcast was recorded on 3 April 2023. Please note that we adapted the introduction to Macron’s interview on 9 April, but some views of our experts might be outdated. An in-depth analysis of the current events will soon follow in an extra episode. Bookshelf: - Revanche: Wie Putin das bedrohlichste Regime der Welt geschaffen hat by Michael Thumann - Smart Brevity: The Power of Saying More with Less by Jim VandeHei, Mike Allen & Roy Schwartz - Slow Horses with Jack Lowden, Kristin Scott Thomas & Gary Oldman

From the rise of China and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to more independent middle and regional powers – our global political order is rapidly changing. But what is Hungary’s position in this increasingly multipolar world? In this week’s episode, Mark Leonard is joined by Balazs Orban, the political director of Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban. (They are not related.) Balazs is also the chair of the board at the Mathias Corvinus Collegium and in 2021 wrote a book called “The Hungarian Way of Strategy”, in which he describes the country’s “strategy of connectivity”. How does the European Union fit into this vision? And what kind of relationship does Hungary expect to have with Russia when the war eventuallycomes to an end? This podcast was recorded on 20 March 2023. Bookshelf: The Hungarian Way of Strategy by Balázs Orbán Leadership: Six Studies in World Strategy by Henry Kissinger Nationale Interessen: Orientierung für deutsche und europäische Politik in Zeiten globaler Umbrüche by Klaus von Dohnanyi

Last week, the Chinese leader Xi Jinping completed a three-day visit to Moscow, his first since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Before the war, Xi and Vladimir Putin had famously announced a “friendship without limits”. But it is unclear whether that relationship is purely transactional, a marriage of convenience, or based on more fundamental, ideological factors. In this week’s episode, Mark Leonard is joined by the director of ECFR's Asia programme, Janka Oertel, and ECFR policy fellow, Alicja Bachulska, to discuss China-Russia relations. How best to explain the “friendship without limits”? What are the key takeaways from Xi's Russia trip? And how has Xi's embrace of Putin been perceived in central and eastern Europe? This podcast was recorded on 28 March 2023. Bookshelf: Our Share of Night: a novel by Mariana Enriquez Economists at War: how a handful of Economists helped win and lose the World Wars by Allan Bollard

Last week, China helped broker an agreement between long-feuding Saudi Arabia and Iran to begin the process of normalising their relations. Both the deal and China’s role surprised many observers – especially in the West. So, how significant is the agreement, and what consequences will it have for the Middle East? To address this and other questions, Mark Leonard welcomes Julien Barnes-Dacey, director of ECFR’s Middle East and North Africa programme; Cinzia Bianco, ECFR visiting fellow and Gulf expert; and Andrew Small, China expert and senior transatlantic fellow at the German Marshall Fund. Does this deal mean Beijing could play a constructive role in ending the war in Ukraine? Or should the United States be alarmed that China is encroaching on its traditional sphere of influence? This podcast was recorded on 22 March 2023. Bookshelf: Aftermath: Life in the Fallout of the Third Reich, 1945-1955 by Harald Jähner Berlin: The Story of a City by Barney White-Spunner Economists at War: How a Handful of Economists Helped Win and Lose the World Wars by Allan Bollard

This week, Mark Leonard welcomes Christoph Heusgen, longstanding foreign policy chief during the Merkel years and now chair of the Munich Security Conference. They discuss Western and non-Western reactions to the war in Ukraine – and, in particular, the role of Germany. Should Berlin have taken a harder line against Russia after 2014? How can Scholz realise his vision for the Zeitenwende? And what is stopping Germany from engaging more in developing countries? This podcast was recorded on 13 March 2023. Bookshelf: The Age of Unpeace: How Connectivity Causes Conflict by Mark Leonard Führung und Verantwortung: Angela Merkels Außenpolitik und Deutschlands künftige Rolle in der Welt by Christoph Heusgen

A year into the war in Ukraine, economic sanctions remain the West’s strongest instrument against Russia. But the Russian economy has proven surprisingly resilient: Russia still sells oil to Turkey and China, and – according to a recent investigation by The Economist and SourceMaterial – the Kremlin’s sanctions-dodging is becoming increasingly advanced. This week, Mark Leonard is joined by James O’Brien, head of the office of sanctions coordination at the US State Department, to discuss the efficacy of economic sanctions. What ripple effects have sanctions had for Western and third countries? Is the United States currently mulling sanctions against China? And what alternatives are there, if sanctions no longer work as intended? This podcast was recorded on 6 March 2023. Bookshelf - Backfire by Agathe Demarais - Russia’s sanctions-dodging is getting ever more sophisticated by The Economist and SourceMaterial - Talking to Terrorists by Jonathan Powell - We Don’t Know Ourselves by Fintan O’Toole - The Baseball 100 by Joe Posnanski Picture (c) picture alliance / Consolidated News Photos | Rod Lamkey - CNP

Some analysts argue that capitalism would work better without democracy, while others believe that democracy would be better off without capitalism – so what’s the solution? In his new book “The crisis of democratic capitalism”, Martin Wolf, chief economics commentator at the Financial Times, sets out how they actually need one another if either is to thrive. In this week’s episode, host Mark Leonard welcomes Wolf to discuss what democratic capitalism is all about and how it is threatened by two distinct authoritarian versions of capitalism. What does all this mean for the development of democracy and capitalism in developing and emerging economies? And what are the chances that democratic capitalism will remain the model to which countries around the world aspire? This podcast was recorded on 10 February 2023. Bookshelf - The crisis of democratic capitalism by Martin Wolf - Slouching towards utopia by J. Bradford DeLong

A major new public opinion poll from ECFR indicates that, a year into Russia's war on Ukraine, the Western alliance is consolidating – but that there are divisions between the West and other global powers. These divergences range from their views of the conflict to their interpretations of democracy and their ambitions on the world stage. In this week's episode, the authors of the research – Mark Leonard, Timothy Garton Ash, and Ivan Krastev – discuss its main findings and the future of the world order. Does Europe have a strong role to play in a multipolar world, or will it forever live in the United States’ shadow? How can the West use the desire in emerging powers to act on their own terms to its advantage? And what principles should drive Europe’s engagement with those countries? This podcast was recorded on 18 February 2023. Further reading - United West, divided from the rest: Global public opinion one year into Russia’s war on Ukraine by Timothy Garton Ash, Ivan Krastev & Mark Leonard https://ecfr.eu/publication/united-west-divided-from-the-rest-global-public-opinion-one-year-into-russias-war-on-ukraine/ Bookshelf - Homelands: A Personal History of Europe by Timothy Garton Ash - The Frontline by Serhii Plokhy - The Shape of the Ruins by Juan Gabriel Vásquez

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine upended many Western leaders’ previous assumptions about security policy, warfare, and the international order. Mark Leonard and his ECFR colleagues Camille Grand, Jana Puglierin, and Ulrike Franke got together at the Munich Security Conference (MSC) last weekend to discuss the dramatic changes – such as Germany's Zeitenwende – that have taken place as a result of these revisions. They analyse MSC speeches from Volodymir Zelensky, Olaf Scholz, and Emmanuel Macron, as well as the announcement of a plan for peace talks by China's top diplomat Wang Yi. What is on the transatlantic to-do list? And how can the West forge more and better alliances with countries in the global south? This podcast was recorded on 17 February 2023. Further reading: - The Munich Security Report 2023 Bookshelf: - Au café de la ville perdue [FR] by Anaïs Llobet - Les Loups [FR] by Benoît Vitkine