Over the years we've eaten in thousands of restaurants around the world. And the good ones all have a few things in common. Find out what makes a good restaurant good and what makes us never want to return. 

[00:00:00] Bruce: Hi, I'm Bruce Weinstein and this is the Podcast Cooking with Bruce and Mark


[00:00:03] Mark: And I'm mark Scarborough. And together Bruce and I have written 33, I think, right? 33, is that right? I think it's 34. 30 0, 34. Oh, well one slipped away. Like just like a child. One slipped. Aye. , 34 cookbooks, including the Instant Pot Bible and the Essential Air Fryer Cookbook. 


And, what are we doing today? 


[00:00:21] Bruce: Today we are going to talk about what criteria Mark and Bruce have for judging whether a restaurant. It's a good one. 


[00:00:29] Mark: Well, yeah, and this is, you know, everybody's got their own little quirks about how, you know, if a restaurant is good and we don't here mean, um, three star, four star, five star dining. 


We don't even mean high end dining, although it can mean that we are meaning all kinds of things about what it is that, how we judge whether a restaurant is 


[00:00:45] Bruce: decent or not. We do, and I wanna start right off the bat, okay. Where there is one thing that I will use to judge whether restaurants even worth going into, okay? 


From the dining room, from any given. Can I watch a television? 


[00:00:58] Mark: Oh, is that a yes or 


[00:00:59] Bruce: a no? If the question, if the answer to that question is yes, then I do not need to eat there. 


[00:01:03] Mark: Yeah, it's weird, right? I mean, I know TVs are just ubiquitous and screens are ubiquitous and it's hard to get away from screens, and yet, I don't know, we, there's a really nice restaurant. 


We live in very rural New England, and there's a really nice restaurant not too far from us. Run by in case you want another. Guys that are involved with Manola Blon shoes, right? Yeah, that's right. And it for a while, when they first opened, and this is top dollar restaurant for a while, it's an open dining room with a bar on one side and it's all open in there. 


And they had a TV in the bar. And anywhere you sat in that restaurant, you could see I had a soccer baseball. 


[00:01:42] Bruce: It was always a soccer game. It was always a soccer game though. 


[00:01:44] Mark: Yeah. And I just, it bugged the heck outta me. Right. 


[00:01:47] Bruce: I always feel like I'm eating in an airport. Or I'm eating somewhere outside of New York , because restaurants in Manhattan don't have TVs. 


[00:01:55] Mark: Well, careful. 


[00:01:56] Bruce: They may now. Yeah, they may now. We haven't been living there in a while, but when we travel, we go to Dallas, we've been to Atlanta on business. We go to Denver. Everywhere we go there at. TVs. Oh, and not just at the bar. And we're in the dining rooms. Are you that bored with the person you're eating with? 


Do you have to watch tv? 


[00:02:11] Mark: And, and first of all, if you're watching, it's, it's generally turned to sports, I've discovered. Yes. It's if, if you're really into some sporting event, I don't even know what this is. He says, being the person who listens to Bach. Um, if you're in about, surely you can check on your phone occasionally what the score is. 


So, And if you're that concerned about it, what are you doing at dinner? Then 


[00:02:30] Bruce: Sit home and watch tv. And what's the rest? Is the restaurant trying to take your attention away from the food? Ah, is there something they're trying to cover up? 


[00:02:37] Mark: And I, I think it drives me crazy. This is Bruce's, but it drives me crazy because I can see it sometimes outta the corner of my eye and I just see that flashing screen over there. 


God, I hate it and I don't mind TVs in a bar. I have to say I don't care. But it's. at my table in the restaurant. We were, we, we went, somebody said Dallas, didn't we? Over Christmas. Mm-hmm. and there were TVs every you, you couldn't sit at a table in the restaurant without seeing a tv. 


[00:03:02] Bruce: That's like the, this is a burger place we go to in West Hartford that makes really good burgers. 


Right. But no matter where you sit in the dining room, yeah. There were TVs, there was like two TVs on each wall. So no matter where you're sitting, you have a choice of what to watch. 


[00:03:14] Mark: And I listen, I. Addicted to my phone and my iPad and screens, but I, I guess I, I don't know. I don't wanna do it during, okay. 


Okay. So now this is Mark's first one. And this is one that is really endemic to me or is special to me or something. And that is, and now I'm speaking of more high-end dining, but I like a friendly sommelier. But a distant waiter, and I don't mean distant as he doesn't pay attention to us, I mean an attentive waiter, but I don't mind a chatty sommelier, but I like a distant, formal waiter. 


[00:03:46] Bruce: Let me just say, a sommelier is a person who deals with wine, in case you don't know that. And what Mark's talking about is that a sommelier can give you a lot of good advice. So you want to. what they think about wines that you're interested in. What wines might be nice in your price range, what'll go with what you've ordered. 


So that's a chatty, friendly sommelier, right? Quite honestly, I agree with Mark a hundred percent. I don't care what the waiter had for dinner, a family meal. Yeah. Nor do I care what he likes best on the menu. 


[00:04:12] Mark: No, I don't either. And I don't know why it is that people even ask the waiter. Well, what's good? 


Well, listen, I mean, the waiter first of all is gonna push whatever the kitchen said to push that night. That's the first answer. And secondly, is your taste the same as the weeders? Because what does it matter? I, it's, it's a funny thing, and by the way, I should add that I don't necessarily want to talk to the sommelier so many times they'll say, shall I send the so sommelier over in nicer restaurants? 


And I'll always say, no, no thanks, because they've already picked a bottle on the list, or we're just gonna get a couple glass of wine or whatever and I don't need to talk to the sommelier. This Somalia comes over. I want her or him to be chatty. Interesting to talk to. I'm gonna have a conversation about wine, but the waiter, I don't know what conversation I need to have with the waiter. 


And I don't wanna be mean. Right? 


[00:05:02] Bruce: Yeah, we'll be talking about something. And all of a sudden the waiter will give their. Well, oh, that happened to me with my mother two weeks ago. 


Like, well, I didn't come out to have dinner with you. 


[00:05:10] Mark: Oh, I know. And it's really old school and it's fussy of me. But even in downscale restaurants, even listen, even in clam shacks in in Nova Scotia, in Upper Nova Scotia. In Cape Breton, I really don't wanna talk to the staff and 


[00:05:26] Bruce: not. I don't want to talk to people at the next table to me either. 


Oh, well that's a different thing. That's, that's another that You can't blame the restaurant for that. That's the, but I can blame the people at the next table for that. 


[00:05:35] Mark: Yeah, you can tell that both Bruces and I are rather private people and we like to keep our privacy even in public spaces like restaurants. 


And so that for us is a. Kicker. It may not be for you. You may wanna have a conversation with the waiter, but good for you. Yeah. Good for you. But I definitely do not. Okay. So Bruce up. Okay. 


[00:05:52] Bruce: Now I want to go to dinner itself. What comes at me when I order something? Well, I, first of all, I wanna recognize it. 


I want to know instantly what's on that plate. 


[00:06:01] Mark: Okay. You know, there are high-end places with molecular astronomy. 


[00:06:05] Bruce: Okay. But basically, if I order a piece of. I want it to look like a piece of fish and not a piece of fish with 17 sauces and 16 accessories. So it looks like they scraped all the garbage from everything in the kitchen onto my plate. 


So the plate is and it's just not what I wanted. 


[00:06:21] Mark: So for our non. Yiddish speaking friends. ungapatched is, it's 


[00:06:26] Bruce: cluttered. It's too much. Too much going on. 


[00:06:28] Mark: Right? And so I what The plate clutter is a big thing with both of us and we, I don't like it to look like the plate came out the kitchen as Bruce. So with everything scraped from every other plate onto it, I don't get that. 


[00:06:40] Bruce: The Jackson Pollock look on a plate. 


[00:06:42] Mark: No, they don't like that. And I don't get the seven sauces and the. Condiments and the 14 nuts, and I just don't get all that. And I guess here we're speaking mostly of mid-range restaurants. I mean high-end restaurants. Okay. First of all, high-end restaurants are never gonna clutter a plate. 


The plates practically bare, or except for the one tiny cube of meat in the middle of it. 


[00:07:03] Bruce: Well, or it's cluttered in a way that's so artistic and so everything is placed perfectly. 


[00:07:08] Mark: Yes. Yes. And I've seen those. I've seen videos and I haven't eaten them. I've seen those videos where they build the dessert. 


On the table itself for the entire table. And they make basically a giant painting out of the dessert on the table. And all the pastry chefs are involved with sauces and pieces of this and, and those are, those are gorgeous. 


[00:07:26] Bruce: That's not clutter. That's art. No. Yeah, that's not clutter. Clutter, but I think you're right. 


It's mid-range restaurants that are. Think they're high end. Yeah. Or think they're better than they are because they've scraped four sauces onto the plate. Yeah. But they're not usually artistic enough to do it. Right. 


[00:07:39] Mark: Okay, so now it's my turn, and this is mine and it's a judgment of mine in restaurants from clam shacks to a high end tonight. 


Mine, not high end, but upper mid-range restaurants. And that is, Crunchy french fries, , I can't, soft french fries. I cannot stand soggy or even just soft french fries. I want my french fries to have some sort of crunch. 


[00:08:05] Bruce: And let me tell you, when we go to restaurants, mark does tell the servers. I want my fries burned. 


I do and they don't put the heat. Usually he expects, oh, you want well done? No, you didn't hear me. 


[00:08:16] Mark: I want them burned. I, and you know, I don't, they don't have to come out carbonize, but I do. I just want, you'd like it if they did. I do. I would. I just want my french fries crunchy and I cannot stand limp. I can't get stand soggy. 


French, French fries. Oh, and I can't stand limp once, you know, it used to be there was this restaurant in Dallas. There still is this restaurant in Dallas Snuffers. But I went to Snuffers. I am from Dallas, and I went there when it was the original down on Greenville and there was this little bar that served hamburgers and blah, blah, blah. 


And I remember always getting the. Basket of french fries, which were always crunchy, at least in the old days at Snuffers. I don't know what they're like now, but they were always crunchy then. And Ben, I also remember always digging to the bottom of the basket for all the little crunchy pieces. That's the part I wanted. 


[00:09:00] Bruce: Oh, like at the bottom of the potato chip bag? Yeah. Okay. But here's a question. Do you prefer. For the really skinny shoestrings, the medium size or the steak fries? 


[00:09:07] Mark: I don't, I'm not a great fan of steak fries. And you know why? It's because the lack of crunch. 


[00:09:12] Bruce: Yeah. Cuz they, even if they get the outside crunchy, the inside's 


like 


[00:09:14] Bruce: a baked potato. 


[00:09:15] Mark: It's, it's okay. Steak fresh are fine and if I come to your house, I'm going to enjoy your steak fries. Right. But. Left to what I want, what I'm going to eat. I just like crunchy french fries. 


[00:09:25] Bruce: And let me explain what Mark means is that it's crunchy throughout. It's not crunchy on the outside and soft on the inside. 


Same way he likes waffles. Oh yeah. It should be the same texture from the outside to the inside crunch all the way through. It's like a brick, you know? Just eat a brick. 


[00:09:36] Mark: When you have your waff line and you know how it dings, you put the ladder in and you close it and it dings, and then it's ready. Right. 


You know? Well, we all know at my house, Bruce knows that it has to go through at least. Two cycles. It has goes through two dings. Oh, at least it has to go through the cycle and ding and then cycle again. 


[00:09:53] Bruce: You have to get it just before the smoke detector goes, and then it's perfect. Okay? Because 


[00:09:57] Mark: I want, I want my waffle. 


I caught it. I want it to shard , and maybe it's just me, but do not judge my roof planking waffles. Okay, 


[00:10:07] Bruce: so, all right, so now the next. I'm back to plates, but not the way the kitchen handles them. Now I'm gonna talk away. The busing staff and the waiters handle. Oh, here we go. If there are four people eating at the table and one of them is done, yes, do not touch that person's plate. 


Do not come over and say, can I clear that for you? While other people are still eating, do not touch a plate's thing till everyone. Is done. 


[00:10:29] Mark: Yes. And I have an ancillary comment about this too, but, um, I, what is your ancillary, I agree that it's really disconcerting when, let's say I'm slow in eating and the waiter comes over and she clears away three of the plates, and then I'm still eating and it really irritates me. 


And it connected to the, don't clear the plates until we're all done. All of us at the table are done. Also never ask me if I'm still working on that . First of all, is the food so horrid that I have to work to get it down? Is that the deal? Don't ask me if I'm working on it. 


[00:11:06] Bruce: There's another one too. When they say, are we still enjoying that 


Well, Have you joined me for dinner? I didn't realize that this was a really big group activity. 


[00:11:15] Mark: And I know what you wanna know. You wanna know if I'm leaving some behind. And generally you can tell because I was raised bright and when I'm done, I crossed my silverware on my plate. I was raised very old fashioned and right. 


And that's what I do. And you, but I don't expect a waiter to know that. What I expect is a waiter. Everybody has come to rest and is talking nicely and then, you know, come up and say, may I clear these plates? Or can, would you like to think about dessert? Or blah blah. Can I get you some more water? Can I get you some more iced tea? 


Can I get you some more wine? You know, I don't know what. Mm-hmm. . There's a million ways to find out if we're done. 


[00:11:53] Bruce: I have slapped many a waiter's hand. And many of bus boys handle when they have come to the table. , no, don't do it. Just don't. We used to go, when we lived in New York, we went to this little place on eighth Avenue and there were two people. 


Their whole job was, was to clear plates as fast as possible. Oh, to get people out of the restaurant. It 


[00:12:09] Mark: was, it was if you were in New York, Back in the day and we're talking in the nineties. This place was 18th and eighth on eighth Avenue at 18th, 


[00:12:15] Bruce: and we called them the satellites and they would orbit around the tables. 


And the second you picked the last french fry off your plate, it wasn't even in your mouth yet. They had that played off the table. It was true. We used to keep like a tiny piece of parsley on the plate and pretend we . Were still getting eat it just to keep the, 


[00:12:32] Mark: it was true. And you know, I never, we went to 18th and. 


like once a week, twice a week. Oh, least twice a week. And it was never that good, but somehow, and we were always irritated by the orbiters, and yet we were always there. It's just New York. I don't know. Okay, finally, this is my last one, and this is for Mal. We're back to more upscale restaurants. Maybe not, maybe not, uh, Michelin three stars, but. 


Upscale restaurants and you know, if I'm at a name chef or a restaurant with a chef who shows signs of great promise or has a name, or has been in food and wine or blah, blah, blah, I have one tell whether what's the test? This is a good chef and that is I will always order a scallop because just one, have a cookie. 


One scallop. I believe that scallops, doing scallops right is the sign of a great show. Scallops are. Done within half a second of being underdone and half a second on the other side of being overdone. Yeah, they are super hard to pull off 


[00:13:29] Bruce: and you want one side really nice and brown and crispy. I do that and then they still need to be just barely cooked and inside. 


[00:13:35] Mark: But you know, it doesn't even have to be pan sauteed as you're indicating even fried scallops in let's say a clam joint that it's. Act to pull off. And we have been, there's a clam, there's a no, I mean, a seafood shop in on Prince Edward, Rhode Island in the National Park. Right. Richards. Richards. And it's right in the national park. 


It's this little bitty, uh, seafood stand at, and they make fried scallops to knock your socks off. And that's because they, they fry them until they steal. The scallops inside are not dry, they're not stringy, they're not. Um, all that fibrous texture. Instead, they're just slightly done, even slightly underdone, just so they have a good firm texture yet. 


[00:14:18] Bruce: So crunchy outside. Yeah. Oh God, they are the best. 


[00:14:21] Mark: So I'm not even in high-end restaurants, scallops to me are the kill. But, uh, even at clam shacks, I swear it's, it's my . Tell. A good scallop or a scallop, 


[00:14:30] Bruce: good scallop sign of 


[00:14:31] Mark: a good chef. Okay, so those are our ways that we like to test restaurants. Um, clearing plates and plate clutter and friendly sommelier, no TVs and french fries, scallops. 


Those are our tells, but I'm sure you have your tells. And, um, we can chat more about them. Check us out on social media under Bruce a Weinstein on I. Or Bruce Weissen on Twitter and Facebook, and under my name Mark Scarborough on Instagram, Facebook, or 


[00:15:00] Bruce: Twitter, and wherever you get your podcast from, whether it's Stitcher, iHeartRadio, Spotify, or Apple. 


Subscribe to this podcast and give us a great five star rating and share it with your friends, cuz we wanna spread the love around on cooking with Bruce and Mark.