Have you ever felt unable to articulate the gnawing doubt that paws at your mind as you play another 4X strategy game? Wondered at the tickle of weariness that plays at your mind as you once again discover Iron and go about the tedious work of upgrading your troops to Swordsman? Have you sighed deeply, closing out yet another Civilization run a mere five hours in, knowing that you'll never come back to it, finding it easier to start again on a vast, unspoiled continent before the crushing weight of despair will once again drive your game to a close? If so, this is the show for you! Rob and Troy are joined by game designer David Heron and freelance writer Austin Walker to talk about 4X games as a whole - what works, what doesn't, and why every damn conversation circles back to people looking for another Masters of Orion game.