The ink had barely dried on the deal for the French subs that then Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull had signed when a group of people behind the scenes started the campaign to get out of it. They had concerns that the subs would not meet the requirements that the Americans had for Australia in their role in the Indo-Pacific. Particularly in relation to China.

Guest: Andrew Fowler, author of Nuked: The Submarine Fiasco that Sank Australia’s Sovereignty (Melbourne University Press)