As a writer who focuses on technology and as AI Editor for The Financial Times, Madhumita Murgia has been unable to ignore the increasing reach of AI into the infrastructure that helps run our societies. It's the subject of her new book, Code Dependent, a study of how technology and AI often designed with idealistic intent is beginning to have a significant effect on real people's lives and not always for the better. Joining Murgia in conversation for this episode is Carl Miller, co-founder of the Centre for the Analysis of Social Media at the think tank Demos and author of The Death of the Gods: The New Global Power Grab. Want to attend Intelligence Squared live events? Explore our upcoming line up of talks below: https://www.intelligencesquared.com/attend/ If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events - Our member-only newsletter The Monthly Read, sent straight to your inbox ... Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series ... Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content, early access and much more ... Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events and discounts. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices