It's hard to fathom the idea that more people have to die from COVID-19 before we come out on the other end of this pandemic. Is it time for political leaders of both parties to have an honest conversation about the moral trade-offs of this pandemic and how to balance them toward the public interest?

The world is coronavirus-research.html">rushing to produce a vaccine against COVID-19. We talk about the trade-offs of shortening a process that typically takes 10-15 years to complete and the ethical challenges of manufacturing one or more vaccines and how we choose to distribute them.

The giant-hornet-washington.html">Asian giant hornet has arrived in the U.S. for the first time -- and it doesn't bode well for honeybees. What are scientists doing to eradicate it?

GUESTS:

• John Harris - Founding editor of Politico
• Carl Zimmer - The author of 13 books about science; his latest is She Has Her Mother's Laugh: The Power, Perversions, and Potential of Heredity
• Mike Baker - Seattle bureau chief for The New York Times

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Colin McEnroe and Cat Pastor contributed to this show.

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