As Russia shifts the focus of its military offensive to southern and eastern Ukraine, Finland and Sweden are moving closer to NATO membership. In this week’s episode, Mark Leonard speaks to Carl Bildt, former prime minister of Sweden and current ECFR co-chair, and Alexander Stubb, former prime minister of Finland and current ECFR council member. Beyond both countries’ expressions of intent, where do they stand on NATO membership? What can Sweden and Finland offer NATO? And are they worried about the Kremlin’s threats to attack their countries? This podcast was recorded on 21 April 2022. Further reading: - Between Russia, Sweden, and NATO: Finland’s defence of “sovereignty equality” by Hanna Ojanen - How the Russia-Ukraine crisis could change Sweden’s security policy by Mats Engström - “Whoever shows weakness, will be attacked” by Francesco Collini Bookshelf: - The Unknown Soldier by Väinö Linna - Ravenna: Capital of Empire, Crucible of Europe by Judith Herrin - The New Age of Empire by Kehinde Andrews