Josué Cardona 0:11Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network. Here at Geek Therapy we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves through the media we care about, my name is Josué Cardona. And I’m joined by Lara Taylor.

Lara Taylor 0:21Hey,

Josué Cardona 0:23you were taking a sip. So I thought I would catch you know,

Lara Taylor 0:25nope, I took a small sip because I knew you were gonna do that

Josué Cardona 0:30Marc Cuiriz

Marc Cuiriz 0:31Hello,

Josué Cardona 0:33And Link Keller

Link Keller 0:36

Josué Cardona 0:36ew

Link Keller 0:38just kidding. Hi. Hello. Welcome back. My friends, I have missed you.

Josué Cardona 0:45All of us?

Link Keller 0:46All of you

Josué Cardona 0:49marc take a sip now. After them. Link, what? What are we talking about? Today,

Link Keller 0:55we are talking about a show called Dead End paranormal Park, which is a cartoon available on Netflix. It is lightly spoopy. If you liked Gravity Falls, it has a lot of things in common with that. But mostly I wanted to talk about the trans character Barney and more specifically, Episode Seven, where Barney has a meet up with his family. And it’s very uncomfortable. But it is, I think, a really good conversation starter for talking about trans people and their family dynamics around that. young trans men in particular. And yeah, I just I thought it was a fun show to talk about. Now, I specified to you guys when I brought up this topic that episode seven was the one I wanted to talk about specifically, but I know some of you watched more than that. So anybody want to pipe in and talk about your experience watching dead end paranormal Park.

Josué Cardona 2:12I had to renew my Netflix subscription which I wasn’t super happy about. But I did

Lara Taylor 2:22anything for the podcast.

Josué Cardona 2:24anything for the podcast

Marc Cuiriz 2:24anything

Josué Cardona 2:25Yep. I have a question link.

Link Keller 2:28Yeah.

Josué Cardona 2:29In that episode, which will we’ll get into more they reference a previous dinner with a grandmother.

Link Keller 2:37mmhmm

Josué Cardona 2:38Is that also shown in an episode? cuz that I did not see?

Link Keller 2:41I think there is an earlier episode where they do like a quick little flashback. But they do not show the scene in its entirety. Just it’s like a spooky scary thing is happening to Barney. And it is shows that it’s a family dinner, and Grandma is very threatening and scary. And so you you get the setup early on as like that was a traumatic event that happened, which potentially assuredly is related to why Barney is now run away from home and is living in the park.

Josué Cardona 3:19Yeah. Part of like a larger conversation are there. Are there other trans characters in animated shows that that come to mind that might be able to compare and contrast as you continue the conversation.

Link Keller 3:41I wasn’t ready for that question. Oh, no.

Lara Taylor 3:43Neither am I.

Link Keller 3:44uhhh,

Josué Cardona 3:47because I can’t think of any other characters that I’ve seen on any animated show.

Link Keller 3:54Let me Google

Josué Cardona 3:55got to Google something. Okay. Oh, pull up the Please hold.

Lara Taylor 3:58I mean, they’re there. I don’t think explicitly trans characters, but there are allegories and like representations.

Josué Cardona 4:05Yeah, yeah, we got tons. Yeah. 300 episodes of those.

Lara Taylor 4:10Exactly.

Josué Cardona 4:13Yeah. And again, because like Barney is explicitly trans. Like that’s, again, this episode that we’re that we want to talk about that. That’s it. That’s a big part of the conversation. See, I didn’t want to come in and be like, This is the first ever trans character animated show. I was like it is it is it is the first one for me. But

Marc Cuiriz 4:42yeah, I was gonna say I was the first one for me because I don’t think I’ve ever really dealt with Oh, I really any form of media that I can think of off the top of my head where there’s like an explicitly like trans character.

Josué Cardona 4:57We have talked a lot about like a live action trans representation.

Lara Taylor 5:03absolutely

Josué Cardona 5:03I can name a bunch. And we talked about those but never animated.

Link Keller 5:08So there is a Wikipedia page list of fictional trans characters. And there are quite a few

Josué Cardona 5:16in animation?

Link Keller 5:16in animation

Lara Taylor 5:16I tried to pull up and nothing and nothing came. It’s like a blank page for me.

Link Keller 5:22You have to click the Show button where it says characters for it to drop it down. I had a moment to where I was like, but I know there’s at least two, three. There are definitely more trans women than trans men on this list. But um I just I had a moment just now oh where did it go?

Lara Taylor 5:49Rachel’s bighead on Rocco’s modern life?

Link Keller 5:52in the like remake version, that was like a subplot in it, which actually was pretty cool.

Lara Taylor 6:01That’s That’s right. I do remember that

Josué Cardona 6:03Rocco got a remake what?

Link Keller 6:06There are several trans women characters in Bob’s Burgers. There’s a trans man in wonder Egg priority.

Marc Cuiriz 6:15I actually remember there. There is a there is a trans woman and Family Guy actually.

Link Keller 6:21There’s a couple of trans characters in Futurama. There’s a trans man and she RA and the princesses of power. Jewelstar

Lara Taylor 6:30I don’t remember who Jewelstar is

Marc Cuiriz 6:33Yeah, great. And I had to think about that.

Lara Taylor 6:36But I’m like, did that person have any lines? I doubt it.

Josué Cardona 6:42In wonder egg? who in wonder egg?

Link Keller 6:46me scroll back down. Sorry, Kaoru Kurita. trans boy hatched from momos egg.

Josué Cardona 6:58Oh! That’s true. That’s true.

Link Keller 7:00It is designed with colors replicated the transgender flag.

Josué Cardona 7:04Okay. Yeah. Yep.

Link Keller 7:07Oh, oh, I should I wish I hadn’t read more of that. That’s a real bummer.

Josué Cardona 7:12that show is a big bummer.

Link Keller 7:13Anyway,

Josué Cardona 7:14yeah. Don’t. big content warning for that show. From beginning to end.

Link Keller 7:18For reals. But yeah, so there are definitely a few here. Okay. Okay. Notably, not a lot of main characters, right. Barney is absolutely main character. Yeah.

Josué Cardona 7:34top Billing.

Link Keller 7:37And I appreciate that. The way that they introduce Barney as being trans is like, not the defining feature of who he is. It is, I think, the second or third episode where he explicitly says it. Which I do appreciate the things that it is explicit, but it’s not. You know, episode one, you are introducing your characters. You’re trying to get people invested in them to watch the rest of the show. That’s not the main thing about Barney. I really appreciate that.

Josué Cardona 8:16He leaves home but you don’t know explicitly know. Why. No?

Link Keller 8:20Yeah.

Josué Cardona 8:22Okay, well, thank you for answering my question, Wikipedia.

Link Keller 8:28Make sure to donate to keep Wikipedia free.

Josué Cardona 8:37Oh, Wikipedia. Okay, so Dead End Paranormal Park is is a it’s pretty fun show. So let’s let’s talk about Barney.

Link Keller 8:51Yeah. So Barney, and Norma are our two main characters. And they are high school students on summer break and they are both applying for the same job at paranormal Park. Norma, who is 100% autistic coded? is obsessed with Pauline Phoenix who is the Mickey Mouse of this park. She’s seen every piece of media appalling Phoenix has been in she knows everything about the park. She’s this is her hyper fixation. 100% Barney is just like, I’m looking for a way out of my house. And this is a job that has a lot of places that I could potentially sleep in.

Lara Taylor 9:42Yeah, I was gonna say most people that work at parks don’t live in them.

Link Keller 9:46Most of the time. They don’t. I would maybe recommend especially not in a spooky theme park but

Lara Taylor 9:55unless that’s your thing,

Link Keller 9:56unless that’s your thing. But uh, yeah, they as they go to the job interview, it turns out that they are applying for the position of being possessed by it like a demon king. Who, through a series of high jinks ends up inside the body of Barney’s dog Pugsley it’s very silly and cute and funny. Pugsley ends up coming back into himself having control over his body with a special new power of being able to talk so we have our comedy relief, third character. They’re all funny. They’re all comedy relief. Um, but yeah, Barney. is so cute and so sweet. And he doesn’t. I like that how they introduce him. It’s especially compared to Norma Norma comes in. She’s like, I know everything about this park. I know everything about Pauline. I’m obviously the only choice to get a job here. And he’s like, Well, I’m, I’m nice. And I’m a good worker. I just really liked. Like, you don’t have to know everything to be good at a job. And I’m like, That’s right, Barney. You are correct. I’m very appreciative of that. Yeah, I like I like Barney a lot. I think he’s real cute. I like norma a lot too. I also like Courtney, the demon who eats a garbage

Josué Cardona 11:38so it is a fun show. I would say. Pauline Phoenix is more like than the Dolly Parton of this of this part.

Lara Taylor 11:45Ah,

Josué Cardona 11:46than the mickey mouse

Link Keller 11:48there’s definitely some Dolly Parton-esque-ness.

Josué Cardona 11:53Dollywood

Link Keller 11:54she She is voiced by Miss Coco Peru. It’s very giving very much drag queen is the vibe. Which I totally love. And there’s been like a long history of the relationship between drag queens and horror stuff. So I appreciate that aspect as well.

Josué Cardona 12:17Yeah, yeah.

Link Keller 12:18But yeah, so that they they managed to not be possessed by the demon guy. And they get they both get a job as security at the park. And then, you know, various high jinks ensue. It’s a it’s a cartoon. Each episode has its own little thing. They’re fun.

Josué Cardona 12:37Yeah. And so and so what what? What is it about? Barney’s representation and kind of character development and all that that really stood out to you?

Link Keller 12:51Well, like I said, I like that. To me, it was very obvious that Barney was trans from the beginning. Because I’m like, that’s that’s a queer character. Pointing at my TV screen like, hey, wait a second, I recognize you. But I like I said on the second or third episode, he explicitly says to Norma, like I’m, I’m a trans man. And everybody at school, knew who I was before. And everybody at my house knew who I was before. And here at the park. People just know me who like who I am right now. And I thought that that was really authentic and vulnerable for him to say that, because Norma supposedly went to school with him. They had classes together. But she’s so much in her own world. She’s like, she didn’t she never comments on it. It’s not a big deal to her at all, which I think is a very cute, she’s just like, Okay, thanks. But yeah, as we find out more about Barney’s relationship with his family. He has a younger brother, who he cares very much about. But he has an uncomfortable relationship with his parents and an antagonistic relationship with his grandmother who it’s unclear if she lives with his family or if she just comes over for a family, a weekly family dinner. But anyways, he felt very uncomfortable and not supported and loved for who he is at home. And so he felt that the only option available to him was to run away which is I think, very relatable for most teens in the world.

Josué Cardona 14:52So many queer teens, right?

Link Keller 14:53Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think when Barney and his brother end up talking and his brother’s like, like, come come home like we miss you. And it’s revealed that like Barney just bounced he didn’t tell them that he was leaving or anything he just didn’t come home. And so it’s like everybody’s worried about him and and you can tell like this is stressful and upsetting for his little brother who is clearly close with him. And so when Barney finally gets up to the courage to meet up with his parents, they go to a restaurant that has a funny western theme. And they have a very awkward conversation that

Josué Cardona 15:57very uncomfortable.

Link Keller 16:00It’s very uncomfortable. I love the way that it’s it is framed where it’s so obvious to Barney and Barney’s parents and us the audience that they are talking about Barney’s transness, and the way that they treat him because of that, and his they are layering that with a metaphor about nachos and the little brother is just like you guys, we can order more nachos! and it’s so cute. I really love that he’s like, he’s he just wants his family back together. And he doesn’t really grasp the dynamics that are occurring around him. He just knows that is like it’s bad and uncomfortable. But he wants you know, he wants his big brother around. And Barney is clearly hurt by having to be like, I’m not coming back yet. Maybe not at all. But you know, I’m very proud of him for standing up and setting those boundaries. And being brave enough to finally talk to them about it, even if it is, you know, a little couched in metaphor, and

Lara Taylor 17:11nachos,

Link Keller 17:12nachos.

Josué Cardona 17:14No. More when I watched it the first time, I felt I felt kind of like Patrick, which I was like, Whoa, how did we get from here to there? Like, even even as you’re following the nachos? Right? I think. Right? Like I think it was the mom, the first one who I mean, the dad is not is not even really making an effort. But the mom is making an effort. And, and so like, What mistakes did she make? or, Did she make any mistakes as she was, you know, getting started talking to him, because, you know, she started with the like, oh, we accept you as you are. And Barney wasn’t having it.

Link Keller 17:51That’s sort of the main thrust of the conversation and what I think is really important that Barney explicitly says, his parents get, you know, upset, and they’re like, why are you more grateful we accept you for who you are. And he’s like, that is the bare minimum of what you should be doing as my parents. And when GrammyGrams I think is what they call her. Apparently, she said, some, I’m assuming incredibly transphobic things.

Josué Cardona 18:20Right, right,

Link Keller 18:21to Barney, and nobody stood up for him. And so he felt completely let down by his parents who are, you know, it’s one thing to be like, we accept you. But if you won’t stand up and say anything,

Lara Taylor 18:35do you really accept them?

Link Keller 18:37that acceptance doesn’t really mean anything. It’s it’s without action. The words don’t mean anything. And so they’re like, you know, they try and

Josué Cardona 18:48then they go, oh she’s stuck in her ways. You know, it’s not worth it

Link Keller 18:50she’s old, it’s not worth trying to explain it to her. She won’t understand. And he’s like, that’s not really the point. The point is, I was there getting harmed, and you did not you watched and did nothing. Yeah, I’m not gonna take that. I was like, hell yeah, dude, get em! But yeah, I think that that was really important that that was verbalized the idea of like, accepting a trans kid is bottom rung baseline thing. There’s so much more you should be doing to support trans kids.

Lara Taylor 19:28But even then, I would argue that like that’s not fully accepting someone fully accepting someone who’s also offering if they are someone who is close in your life offering to stand up for them and help. It’s that I talk to clients all the time about action, behavior is communication, and so the words are saying one thing and the behavior is something completely different. And, yeah, it doesn’t feel good. It puts your brain in a weird place and makes you feel not accepted.

Josué Cardona 20:03But the scene made me think of, you know, the kind of situation where it’s like, in my life, I’m more like Barney, and that I’m like, I’m not even gonna bother with these people. I don’t I don’t have the patience for this. And that’s what he does, right? He’s like, You know what, I don’t even want to have this conversation anymore. I’m still angry, I’m still hurt, let’s go. Or I’m leaving. But like, I acknowledge that many times when I do that, I’m completely destroying the possibility of talking about it, or teaching them or like if they’re, if they’re willing to come to the table, in this case, literally, right? They’re willing to sit down and have a conversation. I think maybe they don’t know what to do next. And you want your parents to already have that answer. And it sucks that it’s on you, a teenager to have to walk them through it and teach them how to how to be accepting and how to fulfill the needs that you have. But that was kind of sad for me, because because I completely understand why he just left it, then it’s like, oh, but like now, like, there’s no, you missed an opportunity here. They were, they were They were at least trying. They don’t know what they’re doing. But it seemed like they were at least trying.

Link Keller 21:24Yeah, it’s it is a common challenge for trans people. Where your identity. being open about your identity means you are signing up to be an educator about that, probably for the rest of your life. And that that’s heavy, that is a heavy thing. For anybody, let alone a teen who, you know, identity is such a wibbly wobbly thing when you’re a teenager. And being tasked further to educate people and defend your identity to them. And trying to be understanding of you know, people don’t know you have to learn it somewhere. But putting the onus on the trans kid is so heavy and exhausting for the person who is having to regularly do trans 101 to everybody in their life.

Lara Taylor 22:32I’ve had clients struggle between do I do the educating and I’m exhausted doing the educating or do I send them to the internet? There are so many bad things out there on the internet and misinformation. I don’t want to send them to a place that I want them to go to a website, this is the website, I want you to go to don’t Google thing.

Link Keller 22:53Yeah, it’s like, Am I

Lara Taylor 22:55on the wrong corner of the internet?

Link Keller 22:56is am I gonna do the labor of doing it in the moment face to face? Or am I going to do the labor of setting up like a syllabus packet to be able to hand out to people is like, either way you’re having to do this extra work that, you know, cis, people don’t have to do. And that that can be very isolating. And like I said, it’s exhausting. So I appreciate that. We got to see that, that vulnerable moment with Barney and him standing up for himself. Yes, I also, you know, I want him to feel loved and accepted and supported. And so I agree Josué is like you can see it’s like they’re there at the table like this is an opportunity to try and mend some of these, these bridges, but also like, ughghgh

Josué Cardona 23:49yeah,

Lara Taylor 23:50but if neither party is ready to have the conversation, there’s feelings of resentment and anger that they haven’t been able to work out on their own.

Link Keller 23:58Yeah,

Lara Taylor 23:58it can be really hard to have that conversation. I really wish I could have given Barney a copy of the comic. A quick and easy guide to queer and trans identities to just hand to them. You know, here I have a book for you. It’s really easy to read. It’ll take you maybe an hour or two.

Josué Cardona 24:15Well, that’s the saddest part about the I mean, the whole story. It’s like, not only that Barney runs away. goes live at a theme park. Like, what support does Barney have like where like, Who does he go to? And in a situation like this apparently he’s got nobody.

Lara Taylor 24:34What norma?

Marc Cuiriz 24:36He’s got a demon

Lara Taylor 24:37and a dog.

Link Keller 24:38Yeah, pugsley, courtney, and Norma are his his family, which I appreciate in that episode when this this blow up is happening is when they do sort of a split narrative in that episode and Norma is going on her own adventure with Badyah who I fucking love. She’s probably my favorite character, but she comes in to like reveal to Barney this information that they’ve gathered and Barney’s parents are like, Excuse me, we’re having like a family meeting. And he goes, so are we. And like, turns away from them to his friends who actually support him and who he is. And I’m just like, ahhhh gettin all teary eyed it’s so beautiful

Lara Taylor 25:22gotta bring in that sound family narrative.

Link Keller 25:25you know I love that shit ugh,

Josué Cardona 25:28but of course, like, they they come up, they come afterwards, right? Like we meet all of them when? When Barney leaves right, like before he found this family and because he didn’t have any before.

Lara Taylor 25:38Yeah, and that’s a very common experience.

Josué Cardona 25:41Yeah, yeah. Aw, Barney. now I’m bummed

Link Keller 25:51he’s just a lil guy

Josué Cardona 25:53I know. he’s got pugsley

Lara Taylor 25:55but he’s but he’s got some family. He’s got his own family.

Link Keller 25:58I love that Barney’s main character conflict isn’t his transness

Josué Cardona 26:04oh yeah

Link Keller 26:04it is that runs away from conflict. And that is the thing that keeps coming up. And I love that because it would be so easy to just be like, trans trauma all over him is like that’s his main character conflicts like No, no, his conflict is that when something scary or upsetting happens, his reaction is to like, Oh, I’m outta here, like bye, guys, and how he’s realizing like, yes, sometimes that is the correct choice for your safety, when you’re being chased by scary demons or whatever. But sometimes it is, it is not a good choice. And it is harming yourself by just leaving and removing yourself from the potential to make connections and to grow and all that stuff. I think that I think that that’s a really good choice for his character

Josué Cardona 26:56the situation, right? Like, because in the in the episode after that, the roles are reversed. And it’s it’s Norma, who doesn’t want to go back and face face reality. And Barney’s like, we gotta. We gotta. We gotta go back. We gotta. We got to do this. Sorry. can’t just sit here. Like it’s a fun show. The musical episode. Fantastic. The but I keep putting my therapist hat on. Like, I don’t even think about that until I sat here. I was like, Oh, these kids are all alone. Where are the adults? how are they so oblivious? Why is this happening to them?

Lara Taylor 27:38I feel like that’s half the cartoons in the world.

Josué Cardona 27:40Well, I know. I know. I know. Like, I usually turn that off. And I’m just enjoy it. But you know, welcome to GT Radio. I’m like, I wanna take care of these kids. And yeah. Yeah, I think about Deadpool two all the time. It’s one of those movies where

Lara Taylor 28:03that’s very different

Link Keller 28:05both got dead in the name?

Josué Cardona 28:07I know, I know. But it’s like, the whole thing is right, this kid who’s in foster care and like this, this, this, this foster home.

Lara Taylor 28:16oh right right

Josué Cardona 28:16Like, it’s just terrible, right? And like, this kid is just treated so so badly. And Deadpool is like, like, trying to save the kid. Like he’s just so angry about it. I think about that all the time. It’s like, in the middle of that. It’s the only thing I remember about the movie. Sometimes I forget, I’m like, Oh Yeah, cable was in that one play by the same guy that played Thanos. Right. Is that Is that right?

Lara Taylor 28:40Negasonic Teenage Warhead?

Josué Cardona 28:43Yeah, none of that. All I remember is deadpool shooting like the head of the of the foster home in the head. Because it feels like ah, actually he treated these children horribly and traumatize them all. Don’t don’t even bother arresting him. I’m just gonna, I’m just gonna get rid of him. It’s like

Lara Taylor 29:05rightfully has issues with people who traumatize children.

Josué Cardona 29:09Yeah, yeah. But yeah, again, it’s this this thing of like, oh, the kids, these kids, they’re all alone. dammit

Link Keller 29:19just safe and loved and happy.

Josué Cardona 29:21I know,

Marc Cuiriz 29:22in keeping with this dead theme. It’s kind of ringing but like I’m sitting here thinking about this book series. It’s like well trilogy that I read. It’s like Magnus Chase and the gods of Asgard. It’s kind of like Percy Jackson, but it’s not. But there’s a character in there. I think they’re introduced in the second book. And they’re actually gender fluid. So they switch between, you know, male and female, and they are a child of Loki. And just kind of seeing like that whole dynamic, because in the whole throughout the whole series, like the whole point is that they’re it’s a bunch of kids Going on quests to save midgard, but they’re dead. They’re already dead. So like you talk about, like the stories of like, how they died. And then for this character Alex, the story then goes into not it like that’s kind of like their, their gender fluidity is like a just a statement it is what it is. And their whole their whole character development is that their parent is really shitty. And kind of like dealing with that family dynamic because one of the other characters that’s part of the main group is also a child of Loki, but she’s a Valkyrie. And so like you had like these different dynamics of like, coming from the same family, but, you know, like, then they dealt with like this

Josué Cardona 30:49being treated very differently.

Marc Cuiriz 30:51Yeah, yeah, basically, they because they they are born in like, they might have been from the same godly parent, but their lives are drastically different. Like, Alex, I think was like one of those people that like kind of grew up on the streets or I can’t quite fully remember, but like they had a very different lifestyle to I think it’s like Samira. Samira. There we go. Like, she has like, a mom and a dad. And you know, she’s grown up but like a relatively, like, relatively like a middle class, I would say. And like she has an arranged marriage and she’s like, all for like, she wants like she’s looking forward to this and, and all this other stuff. And so she’s like, trying to like maintain this healthy life of being a Valkyrie and like, doing school stuff. And so like, you see, like these different dynamics that like how differently each child was treated. And then when they meet Loki, and they have conversations with Loki, the way he talks to both of them is also very different. So

Josué Cardona 31:57that reminds me of how, like, my older sister is 12 years older than me. And my mom was a very different person. When she raised my my older sister then when she raised me, because

Lara Taylor 32:11Same, Josué, same.

Josué Cardona 32:12yeah, yeah, right. Yeah. So right, you have these conversations with your older siblings? Or is it like, my parents weren’t like that, you know, it was very different for me. But I think, I don’t know, your situation law. But I think my you know, my, my mom was better than the than the version that my mom that my older sister got, because she had learned as she had also, like, softened up, and her life was was different. And I don’t know what it was like for my older sister to have super young 18 year old mom, you know, dealing with all the shit that she was dealing through, dealing with, and like not knowing how to do that. And so like, I think back to Barney’s parents, right, where they’re like, and this is, this is very much a cop out. Right? Like, I don’t I don’t think this is a valid reason. But I think it’s it’s just a fact that like, nobody. They don’t train parents to be like, they don’t go to parent school beforehand. And they don’t take the queer kid elective. Right. Like they don’t they haven’t learned how to do any of this stuff. And I don’t know, I would like to think that, you know, us that are here. We would we would handle things differently than maybe our parents would have. But there’s other

Lara Taylor 33:24and yet, those people who are self aware and are therapists or work with kids or whatever, they still fuck up their kids.

Josué Cardona 33:31Yeah, yeah. But I mean, like, like you don’t like you might be prepared for some things and not for others. Right?

Lara Taylor 33:36Right.

Josué Cardona 33:36And it’s not even again, I think it’s more ignorance, right? Just of not knowing then. Yeah, then like, purposeful, if there’s a lot of programming there as well. In some cases, it may be new, but in some cases, it’s just like, oh, this is the opposite of how I grew up. But I need to I need a second. And that’s not that’s not a justification. It’s just like, nobody was you weren’t prepared to not have parents that were supportive, and the parents were not ready for to deal with that situation.

Link Keller 34:05I think that that’s, that’s actually a really great point is that in, in media, in our culture, it is very easy to think about the perspective of the parents of having to Oh, wow, okay, I’m learning this thing about my kid, I have to figure out what transness is I have to renegotiate our relationship, and my understanding of gender and and how are people going to react to that? And how am I going to, like, spread this knowledge throughout my community and all of this, like, it’s very easy to focus on that perspective. And that’s why I think Barney is such a good character is because it’s like, no, we’re not doing that. We are focusing on relating to Barney and Barney’s experience and we are centering him in this situation. Excuse me. Um, I think that that is good trans representation, right is like focusing on the trans character rather than people who are like, Oh, I’m just learning about what trans is.

Josué Cardona 35:16Yeah,

Link Keller 35:17I think that that’s really important. There are a lot more examples. And you know, older I’m thinking of like, to Wong foo, thanks for everything.

Lara Taylor 35:28Julie Newmar.

Link Keller 35:28Yeah, it and so, like, it’s very easy to send her other cis hetero people, because that is who we are used to centering in our stories, because that is the assumed normative character, person perspective. And I think it’s really important to sort of upend that and be like, we’re not doing that we are focusing on the trans character, and we are treating them as whole humans with equally valuable perspectives.

Lara Taylor 36:06Right? That’s something that like, yes, there is a place for centering the other perspective, and using that as education through media or whatever.

Link Keller 36:16yes

Lara Taylor 36:17But we’ve gotten enough of that. And it’s, it’s good to have some representation, like, the voice actor is a trans man. And there’s some, like you said, like, there’s something about this character, you were like, Oh, you’re the queer character. I got you. And I have conversations with people all the time. They’re like, I don’t know what it is about some I can’t name the things that make somebody queer when they look queer, but people look queer. And I know what when I see it. And it’s good to be able to see that in media and have it feel authentic, rather than some representation. We’ve had another shows.

Josué Cardona 37:01I think I think that scene was surprising. Because you never see that, right? Like, it’s usually always, this is a teachable moment. And even when I brought it up, working in DNI is one of those things where suddenly you become you like policing, right? And it’s like, wow, okay, well, I can’t let that one slide we gotta, we’re gonna have a conversation right now. That’s why that scene is a it’s like, aside from it being media, right, like, like, as a media example, it’s a I think it is, like, one of the exceptions. I don’t, I don’t, I was even surprised that it went that way. But just as, like, a representation of a real life situation. It sucks those situations suck. like you’re saying like, Oh, you don’t you don’t want that task to fall, you know, on to the person that’s, that’s, that’s hurting at that moment. But like, that’s just like reality. Right? Like, it’s, it’s at some point. You have to do that and so many times so many times. Yeah. what a great scene

Lara Taylor 38:15And I think the scene itself is it could be good. Like to have education for people who are cis and straight look at watching this and like seeing the the perspective of the trans person. And using that as a conversation like, oh, this realization Oh, this impacted this person in this way. Maybe I should do something different.

Josué Cardona 38:40yeah. And then in the way that link you explained that of like, it’s not about them. It’s not about the parents.

Lara Taylor 38:50No,

Josué Cardona 38:50no, we’re not trying to make them feel better. We’re not trying to teach them at this moment. That’s not what this is about. That’s not what we’re here to do.

Link Keller 38:56Yeah.

Josué Cardona 38:57This is Barney’s show

Link Keller 38:58Like that’s valuable and and important in it. Like I have room in my heart to be empathetic towards the parents’ situation. But I think it’s more important to center Barney, because it’s, it’s him. It’s who he is.

Lara Taylor 39:14It’s his story.

Link Keller 39:17Yeah.

Josué Cardona 39:20That was a really good scene.

Lara Taylor 39:24It’s not always just about nachos.

Link Keller 39:27You guys we can order more nachos!!

Lara Taylor 39:34and that probably happens in regular life.

Link Keller 39:38Absolutely. I did. I do love that. That is included as like a lightening of the moment but also Like, legitimately, you have, you know, younger siblings around who

Lara Taylor 39:52that have no concept of what’s going on

Link Keller 39:54like to them it’s not weird or like but it’s it’s not a big deal is like kids are so accepting

Lara Taylor 40:04it’s just Barney

Link Keller 40:04is just like Barney Barney says he’s Barney like, that’s Barney I’m on board and being like, why is everybody why is why are people struggling with this? I don’t understand. And it’s like, who there’s a lot of social conditioning. Older people have to unpack to deal with this stuff, not everybody but generalizing there. And so I think that that is also an important aspect to include there where it’s like the kid doesn’t really get it both because you know, kids don’t get a lot of things in general, especially if they are being talked about in vaguely coded language but also because from Patrick’s perspectives like this isn’t why are why are we even fighting about this?

Lara Taylor 40:54mmhmm

Link Keller 40:55Why why is this a conflict? I don’t get why.

Lara Taylor 40:58both Nachos and Barney like Yeah,

Link Keller 41:00it’s like my family’s all together having food. My dog is here. He can talk now. That’s an exciting new thing. Why are Why are you guys fighting? Like, why are we not excited about the dog? Like, let’s go on some rides? Like what’s going on?

Marc Cuiriz 41:13Yeah. Yeah.

Link Keller 41:21Yeah. So I guess before I switch things up, Marc, did you you you watched the whole show, right?

Marc Cuiriz 41:30I did. And I I really enjoyed it. It totally did give me more of those gravity fall vibes. And I was I’m one of the people that was really late to the Gravity Falls game. I didn’t watch it until I want to say towards the beginning of this year. I was just, I was just needing something to watch again, you know, just looking for something to binge. And I really enjoyed it. So watching this, I just couldn’t stop. I really couldn’t. I liked sort of, I mean, I liked the semi spookiness I loved the comedy for it. But I also loved, like everything that we’ve been talking about, up until this point, I really enjoyed it. And it was definitely an eye opener for for different perspectives and things. And I agree also with the link about the favorite character, because she’s mine, because I honestly relate to her the most out of every single character there. Because I would just be that like oblivious, like oh, so we’re hunting we’re hunting for we’re solving a case. Sign me up. Let’s go. I got the snacks.

Link Keller 42:52Badyah is like I norma, I’m going to be your fucking friend. If it kills me. and Norma’s, like, I don’t know what what?

Marc Cuiriz 43:00Oh, you want me to just pour the soup through the mail slot? okay. But I, one of the there’s a there was a few like key, like quotes. Really just one that I? It really hit me because I was like, oh, cuz I’ve definitely felt this way. And it’s where the mom is telling them like, okay, like, please come home. And he’s like, You have to make it one first. That was like, oh, hits me. Just it’s just that was like,

Link Keller 43:32arrow straight through the heart.

Marc Cuiriz 43:34Yes, exactly.

Link Keller 43:35critical hit

Marc Cuiriz 43:36That That to me, it was like, I liked like, how we were saying how like this, the story isn’t centered on the parents like learning and understanding. Like, they go ahead and do their own self reflections. And they come to their own conclusions off camera. Like they they make cameo appearance, appearances really throughout the whole first season. And I think I like to think that it’s that particular quote that he tells them that makes her go home and really start contemplating everything that’s been going on. And even replaying that conversation at the restaurant where I know, I guess they’re fighting, they’re going back and forth about the nachos. But I think at the end of the day, it was still a rather productive conversation. Just not. It wasn’t very like apparent. It wasn’t very explicit. However, it did what it needed to do. And I liked that I liked how like conversations when you have those difficult conversations, they’re not going to end nicely. They’re not always going to be presented with a nice neat little bow. Sometimes

Lara Taylor 43:47there’s no resolution at the end of it, right?

Marc Cuiriz 44:52Exactly. It’s sometimes there just gonna be an ugly and ugly argument or a fight. And you guys are gonna go your separate ways, and you guys are probably going to feel like, like crap. However, it’s what you do after the fact. And when you do the self reflection, that that’s where you can tell whether or not the conversation itself was productive. And I think like, especially in the season finale, when they sort of meet up and talk again, you can see that that was how that that the those both parties had their time to think about it, and reach their own conclusions. And now they’re coming together. And there’s progress being made. Not everything is perfect. But there is definite progress being made. And I thought that was really cool. That was a nice little Neato burrito thing that they showed that they show like all the all the different, different points and views of how these things can go when you’re talking about, you know, like your different identities, or even with other things like going on, like, for instance, like you want to go down a different career path. And let’s say your parents, like, had this idea of what they wanted you to do. And they’ve been pushing you in and trying to mold you in this way. You’re just like, No, I’m gonna go do this thing instead. And then having those kind of conversations or, you know, I know, there’s a whole lot of different things, you can plug in there, but I liked it, I thought it was it was really, it was really nice, and also very relatable. Just based on like, you know, my own experiences with stuff like that. So

Link Keller 46:33that’s such a great point Marc. I think it’s really important to show in media in general, but especially media like this, where it’s sort of aimed towards a younger audience, young adults. Sometimes conversations are incredibly uncomfortable, and you don’t get a resolution, and they’re still vitally important to have. I think that that is so important to show in media. Because, you know, so much of our media storytelling is like, you set up a conflict, and then you solve the conflict, you set up a conflict, you solve the conflict, it’s like real life is never that neat and tidy. And almost never narratively satisfying.

Lara Taylor 47:18Even if it’s not in that episode, even if it’s not like sitcoms, from the 90s were like, it wraps up in half an hour, you got to wrap it up by the end of the season now, right? So, yeah, yeah, it’s nice to it just, it just is and down the line, you can have a shitty conversation like that, that’s uncomfortable. And, you know, maybe down the line, someone comes along, parents realize, oh, maybe I should rethink how I did that. And maybe I’ll I may own up to some mistakes and do some learning on my own. No guarantee that’s gonna happen. But it’s always the option, it’s better to sometimes it’s better to have the conversation and rock the boat, then not

Josué Cardona 48:04you can’t control what other people do or think or believe. And so I do I do like that you brought that up, Marc, this, this can take years. This is not something and,

Lara Taylor 48:17and lots of therapy,

Josué Cardona 48:18and it’s you like you got to go and self reflect, you got to figure some stuff out. You know, like, I can’t just show up every week and and rehash this over and over again. You got to you got to do some of the work.

Marc Cuiriz 48:31You know, it’s actually, it’s actually funny, because towards the end of my therapy session on the other day, I had a realization and I remember telling my therapist, I was like, I think this is I think I’m onto something here. And I have no idea how to start this conversation. Like with other people involved. I was like, I want to be able to bring this up and talk to them about it. But I have no idea how I’m going to without running the risk of them potentially getting defensive.

Link Keller 49:04Have you considered doing it over a plate of nachos?

Link Keller 49:06metaphorically speaking.

Marc Cuiriz 49:11I’m sure that would actually help the situation. But I remember talking about that. And so then when I’m like, speaking it out loud now I’m like, Huh? I this is this has become even more relatable to me now. Now the the bowl nachos are on my lap. Now am I gonna throw the ball under the floor and knock a waiter on the floor or

Josué Cardona 49:34are you gonna order more nachos?

Marc Cuiriz 49:35Or am I just gonna order more nachos? Exactly.

Josué Cardona 49:40Okay.

Link Keller 49:43We’re really using this Nacho metaphor. It’s great.

Josué Cardona 49:47It’s good.

Lara Taylor 49:48Just pour some cheese on top of it. It’s all good.

Josué Cardona 49:52It’s good. Fully loaded.

Link Keller 49:55Hell yeah.

Lara Taylor 49:56Now I want nachos.

Marc Cuiriz 49:58I was about to say like huh nachos would be really good right now.

Josué Cardona 50:02Are you talking about nachos? Or nachos?

Link Keller 50:04both

Marc Cuiriz 50:06Yes.

Lara Taylor 50:08The answer is always both.

Link Keller 50:11Well, that was a majority of what I wanted to touch on. This was a great conversation. But we still have a little bit of time. Do you guys want to touch on some other trans characters in media?

Josué Cardona 50:26And in animated, I’m curious, I want to see that list and you share the link

Link Keller 50:29it doesn’t have to be in. In cartoons? Oh, yeah.

Josué Cardona 50:37True. True. It can be any. Just like, I don’t I don’t think we’ve ever touched that topic. That’s why I was asking earlier to.

Marc Cuiriz 50:44You know, I was like I was saying earlier, I don’t think I’ve really had a whole lot of exposure to like, that particular thing. Although I do remember, like watching clips and seeing things of like the family guy thing where quagmire’s Dad is trans. And, you know, they have their their little gags with it and things like that. But at the end of the day, like they, they actually have like quagmire. He does have like, an actual conversation with his dad, and saying, like, and eventually kind of like, Okay, I accept you for who you are. And I think I think her name is Veronica. I could have her name wrong. But I believe like that, like it’s, it’s a whole thing where he’s like, Yeah, this is how I felt for a while. And this is just who I am now. Deal with it. And, you know, he eventually comes to terms with it. And then the only other I think, for me, I think, personally, is it’s in Assassin’s Creed. Ah, it’s coming up guys

Josué Cardona 51:50it took him fifty two minutes.

Marc Cuiriz 51:53I was waiting. I was waiting for it. But yes, but the only thing is because she like they’re there. And they don’t like, because they’re more of a side character. Like, there’s not really a whole whole lot of substance there. It’s like, oh, you find out like, a third of the way into the game. Yeah. I think it’s like James kid is actually Mary read. And it’s like, okay, cool. And they’re an assassin. Wonderful. And then that’s just kind of it.

Lara Taylor 52:24you say that but I was really excited about that

Marc Cuiriz 52:27I mean, like, don’t get me wrong, like, it’s really exciting. But like in terms of like a story of like, what the talk about like, it’s like, hey, yeah, this game has a trans character in it.

Lara Taylor 52:35But since you don’t need it to be this story, you need queer people to be in this story.

Marc Cuiriz 52:40And this was like, so matter of fact that it’s like, yeah, this is who I am. And if you try to say anything about it, I will

Link Keller 52:46i’ll kill you

Marc Cuiriz 52:47That’s like, I will. Yeah, exactly. It’s like I will literally end your life. Easy peasy. Like, alright,

Link Keller 52:54to clarify, this is Assassin’s Creed. Black Flag?

Marc Cuiriz 52:57Black Flag. Yes.

Link Keller 52:59This is for my notes later.

Marc Cuiriz 53:00Yeah.

Link Keller 53:01I just wanted to make sure

Marc Cuiriz 53:02yes. Mary Read.

Lara Taylor 53:04There’s also another trans character in Assassin’s Creed Syndicate. Ned Wynert?

Marc Cuiriz 53:11Oh, yes, that’s right. I haven’t played syndicate since. Since it launched. It’s been a long time since I played syndicate.

Lara Taylor 53:20I haven’t played it since it launched either.

Marc Cuiriz 53:23oh my Goodness.

Josué Cardona 53:26So this is this might be kind of an ignorant question. I’m not sure what the question is. Exactly.

Link Keller 53:32We’re gonna work our way to it.

Josué Cardona 53:34Yep. Yep. helped me out here. real conversation that I had once with a friend. She was telling me she was dating this guy. And they were they were talking about, like, he really wanted to have kids. And she was like, I don’t I don’t know. I think that there’ll be I don’t know if we should. I don’t know. Like, I don’t really think that I, we can do it. And I was like, why? What? Like what’s going on? Like, do you? Do you not want to have kids like what’s going on? And she’s like, Josué he’s trans. Oh, oh, oh, like I didn’t, I had no idea that this guy was trans. I’ve met him a whole bunch of times. I had no idea. And so to kind of the point that that marc, and Lara, what you were talking about now, the representation is important, but like how do you represent? Is it is it just enough to say, Oh, this this man is trans or that woman is trans? Or do you go like when you when you mentioned, link that Barney looks queer. Like yeah, 100% Right. Like there’s the character is designed to convey something, but not necessarily trans. Maybe like, the looks like a queer character. It could have been a number of different situations. So So my question being like, in that aspect of representation, what, like, what do we need more of? Or how is it best done? Or is the answer we just we need all of them, like we need.

Lara Taylor 55:12usually the answer is we need all of them.

Josué Cardona 55:15Thanks, I got there

Link Keller 55:16this perfect lead into what I was what I was gonna say is like, there are a lot of trans stories that are about coming out. And that that was reflected in earlier media with gay representation, whereas the focus was on the act of coming out that that was the big moment. That was the main conflict character. characterization.

Lara Taylor 55:39y’all, that’s like five minutes of our lives.

Link Keller 55:42And the idea being is like that is an important story to tell that is important. representation, it is problematic when that is the only representation. And so it is really important to have characters. Where whatever is happening, plot wise, it has nothing to do with them being trans, and they just exist in that space. It is important for it to be explicit, because it is very easy for people to ignore it if it’s not explicit. And so finding that balance of being able to say this character is explicitly trans, without then people being like, Okay, well, are you going to tell us the coming out story now? It’s like, No, it’s not about that. We’re not doing that. Now. That’s not what this character is. It’s just, it’s a throwaway line, it’s, it’s a tiny seed of knowledge for you to have to better understand where this character is coming from, or, yeah, just purely representation of being like, in this world, trans people exist. And then moving on. And being able to have a wide variety of different types of trans experiences is really important, because trans people are not a monolith. They are individuals and their stories are unique to their own experiences, their context, their families, the communities they live within,

Lara Taylor 57:04they identify differently, yeah

Josué Cardona 57:07I was gonna ask about that. The identity, the identification part, because like, I feel like in media, we have, like the explicit conversation of like, Oh, I’m a trans man, or I’m a trans woman, where a lot of people would simply identify as a man or a woman without the trans part as well. So again, like how do you represent that? In a way where? Yeah, I think we just need more and more of it so that we have that whole spectrum of like, oh, in this story matters here. It doesn’t and this situation and you know, it’s relevant here, it’s not.

Link Keller 57:40Yeah, I mean, being able to get to a point where you can have a character and never say, I am trans, and none of their friends or family ever goes, Hey, that one’s that one’s a trans and just something, you know, a tiny flag pin, where it’s just a tiny identifier, that if you’re paying attention, you catch and otherwise, it’s not important to the story that is being told. I don’t know that we’re fully there yet. I think, definitely within queer spaces. Queer people are very in tune with finding little details like that. general audiences not so much. But I think as we move forward, like the idea of trans people just existing in spaces and not having it be a big deal is that’s the goal.

Josué Cardona 58:35Is, has there ever been like a, like, a story, you know, like, a mainstream popular story that you can think of? Where it’s flipped, and, like, the minority is cisgender people, so then, you know, like, you refer to the Cisses, instead of the transes, you know, like, something like that.

Lara Taylor 58:59The closest I could come up with is something like The L Word where everybody’s queer, like, and they talk about the staights. But like, that’s about it. I was gonna say that one story that comes to mind that I think gets things right and tries to balance the the throwaway line but also center transness in a way that doesn’t make it all about transness. This was Nia Nal on SuperGirl. Like she had to come out to somebody, I can’t even remember that first episode. That’s how much the rest of the story stuck with me, and the coming out part didn’t. And there’s a little bit of the trans. The Trans story being about like, oh, the power passes to the daughter for the dreaming, and she’s a trans woman, but like, for the most part, she’s just Nia and her friends interact with her as a human being a full human being who has thoughts and feelings and experiences that have nothing to do with their transness, and it was great.

Josué Cardona 1:00:10Yeah. Yeah, I do. I do always wish that. I mean, it’s like sometimes to make one point, you have to make the completely opposite point. So, I always like the idea of showing my people in the majority or, you know, I mean, the minority or, etc, right, like flipping those things completely. Just because then it’s very obvious. But then you’d be surprised how those like those conversations make people think it’s like, why are you referring to me as cisgender? Why are you referring to transgender people? Like why? Why are you making the distinction? Why does? Why is this the default, what if we change the default or there wasn’t a default.

Lara Taylor 1:00:51That reminds me a little bit of the, it was a webcomic, but pulled into a graphic novel on a sunbeam by Tilly Walden, where every character and it took me a good chunk of the book. It’s a huge, thick book. And it took me a good chunk to get through and realize there are no men in this comic. They’re all women

Link Keller 1:01:15wait a second!

Lara Taylor 1:01:17And there’s the the only thing that’s different is there someone that uses they them pronouns in it. And but it was just like, I don’t know if there’s an experience like that other like, for where the trans people or queer people in general are the norm. But that was a that was a thing. It took me a long time to be like, Wait, there are no men in this society.

Josué Cardona 1:01:41I have seen stories like that. That’s the but only with like, Yeah, I

Link Keller 1:01:45can’t think of a specific example. But I’m sure that there are like sci fi books, and comics that exist that go into that.

Lara Taylor 1:01:54probably more Indie comics and things.

Josué Cardona 1:01:57there’s gotta be a few Afrofuturism books. There’s no white people, or like, very few white people.

Lara Taylor 1:02:05There are a lot of there are plenty of those in at least novels, where I think white people who read those books automatically assume people are white, even though it’s very clearly written that it’s black people.

Josué Cardona 1:02:21Yeah, and I don’t even mean like, in part of the story, right. I mean, like, in terms of the word world building. Yeah. Right. Because Because, yeah, there’s a lot of stories, stories that you can center around one group of people or another. And yeah, that happens all the time. Right? It’s like you just, Oh, you just assume like, oh, no, I had no idea. Because you assumed a default. Yeah. So I do like it when when stories flipped on its head, but I never. Yeah. In the Orville, they play with this a little bit. There’s a race where, technically everyone is either a man or a trans man, because no one is allowed to be

Lara Taylor 1:03:03a woman.

Josué Cardona 1:03:03Female. Yeah. Yeah. So at birth, anybody who is born was born with a female sex is is immediately given an operation. Yeah.

Lara Taylor 1:03:19I don’t know how I feel about that.

Josué Cardona 1:03:20Oh, they address it like head on multiple times in the show. And it is a serious point of contention. And, and but yeah, that’s, that’s the closest I can think of in like a popular fiction or popular media.

Link Keller 1:03:38I know I just made a deal about wanting more than just coming out stories. But I do I do want to touch on. Victor, in the Umbrella Academy, the most recent season.

Josué Cardona 1:03:50Oh, yeah.

Link Keller 1:03:50With Elliott page, I thought that that was handled very well. It was a coming out moment. But the way that all of the characters responded to that I thought was fantastic and funny and sweet and heartwarming. Especially the part where Luther is like, should we throw a party? I want to throw a party. and Diego’s like no dude. And then tells Victor like, Luther wants to throw you a party so that you know that you’re loved. Do you feel loved? And he’s like, yeah, and I’m like, awww, that’s good. Shit. Yum, yum, yum, yum. but Yeah.

Josué Cardona 1:04:37that’s good. Any other notes, Link. We cover everything.

Link Keller 1:04:41This was a swell conversation.

Josué Cardona 1:04:45How many times did you watch the episode? because every time we were gonna record Did you rewatch it?

Link Keller 1:04:51No. I was sort of slacking on it. I have watched the entire show one time and then we’re done. I think two weeks ago when we were gonna record this I rewatched episode three. I think it’s the what it’s my favorite episode. It’s the one that’s like very much Evil Dead jokes. And then from that one to episode seven, so I’ve watched the middle of the show twice the beginning and end only seen once. But it’s a great show. I recommend it. It’s a fun time. It’s

Josué Cardona 1:05:29does season two drop tomorrow?

Marc Cuiriz 1:05:32I think Season Two drops tomorrow.

Link Keller 1:05:34oh shit, It’s spooky season guys.

Lara Taylor 1:05:37We just got a little blew link’s mind

Link Keller 1:05:40hee hee hee

Josué Cardona 1:05:43Lara, any closing thoughts?

Lara Taylor 1:05:46It’s a good cartoon. Watch it.

Josué Cardona 1:05:50Marc, any closing thoughts?

Marc Cuiriz 1:05:52Lara took mine.

Lara Taylor 1:05:54Here you can have it and I’ll say trans people are very cool.

Marc Cuiriz 1:06:00It’s a good cartoon. Watch it.

Josué Cardona 1:06:08Alright, and thank you for joining us on this episode. For more Geek Therapy, visit geek therapy.org. There’s links to all the community spaces in the show notes. Remember to geek out and do good and we’ll be back next week

Link Keller 1:06:24mmmbye!

Josué Cardona 1:06:25Geek Therapy is a 501 C three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture. To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geek therapy.org

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

• Barney / Dead End: Paranormal Park
• Gravity Falls
• Rachel Bighead / Rocco’s Modern Life: Static Cling (2019)
• Marshmallow / Cha-Cha / Glitter / Marbles / Bob’s Burgers
• Kaoru Kurita / Wonder Egg Priority
• Ida Davis / Family Guy
• Hermaphrobot / Futurama
• Jewelstar / She-Ra and the Princesses of Power
• Norma / Dead End: Paranormal Park
• Pugsley / Dead End: Paranormal Park
• Courtney / Dead End: Paranormal Park
• A Quick & Easy Guide to Queer & Trans Identities by Mady G and Jules Zuckerberg
• Badyah / Dead End: Paranormal Park
• Patrick / Dead End: Paranormal Park
• Deadpool 2 (2018)
• Magnus Chase and the Gods of Asgard by Rick Riordan
• To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! Julie Newmar (1995)
• Mary Read / Assassin’s Creed: Black Flag
• Ned Wynert / Assassin’s Creed: Syndicate
• The L Word
• Nia Nal / Supergirl
• On a Sunbeam by Tilly Walden
• The Orville
• Victor / The Umbrella Academy

Conversation Topics:

* Protect Trans Youth* Betrayal* Cultural representation* Difficult emotions* Family* Fear* Feeling alone* Finding Oneself/Identity Development* LGBT Issues* Making new friends* Resilience* Standing up for others* Standing up for oneself

Relatable Experience:

* Being a Teen* Coming of age/Getting older* Coming Out* Fear/Anxiety* Fighting* New Life Event (New Rules)* Separation* Trauma

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