Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. In this episode, Gary and his guest, Camillus “Cam” Robinson, talk about the turbulent life of Jimmy the Bomber Cataura, a figure whose name became synonymous with Chicago’s underworld. Known as Jimmy the Bomber,” Jimmy Cataura’s story is a complex web of crime, suspicion, and intrigue. In 1952, Jimmy the Bomber surfaced in the newspapers concerning bombings in the Chicago area. Two Teamsters Union officials’ homes and a gasoline station where employees had refused to join the union were targeted. Despite being questioned, Jimmy couldn’t be linked to the bombings and was instead charged with disorderly conduct.

Over the years, Jimmy’s alleged involvement in criminal activities continued to escalate. In 1967, he was linked to a murder investigation, but no charges were filed. 1972, Jimmy was among the men arrested on fraud and loan shark charges. The men had set up a fraudulent corporation that charged fees for financing loans totaling over one million dollars. Despite these brushes with the law, Jimmy the Bomber evaded conviction. A federal grand jury next indicted him for transporting a stolen vehicle across state lines, but the outcome of this case remains unknown. Jimmy’s reputation within the criminal underworld grew as the years went by. Jimmy the Bomber was rumored to be involved in various criminal activities, including stealing and selling stolen auto parts. However, his criminal empire began to crumble in the late 1970s as rival factions within the Chicago Outfit vied to control his chop shop rackets. South Side Boss Frank LaPorte died, and Al Pilotto took over. The new power wanted a piece of this chop shop racket.

In 1978, Jimmy’s life came to a violent end when he was gunned down while sitting in his car. His death marked the end of an era, leaving behind a legacy of crime and intrigue that fascinates today. Join us as we unravel the life of Jimmy the Bomber Cataara, a man whose name became synonymous with Chicago’s criminal underworld.

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To subscribe on iTunes click here. Please give me a review and help others find the podcast. Donate to the podcast. Click here! Transcript [00:00:00] Hey, welcome all you wiretappers. Good to be back here in the studio of gangland wire. I’ve got my good friend, Camillus Robinson, cam Robinson. Welcome cam. Good to see you. I haven’t talked to you for a while. Hey Gary. I can’t tell you how much it it means to me to be back and be back in the the studio with you. It’s such a, such a great time. And I’m glad to be here and I’m really excited about today’s show. Really good. Yeah, we’re going to do Jimmy the Bomb Jimmy “The Bomber” Catuara. Is that how you pronounce that, Cam? ? Catuara, yeah. Catuara? Okay. That’s how I would say, yes. You know, you know how everybody laughs about how I drag out my bowels up here. Not as bad, much as they laugh about me. Right. One guy said, well, that hillbilly Tw that guy’s, God, he said, man, he, he can’t be telling me about the mafia. . I had to get everybody to to help me out with Joey. I Joey Aiuppa Yeah, you can’t do that. And I, and I do. I’ve got no, I am Italian. I’ve got no excuse. Yeah. See, I’m full excuse anyhow, we’re going to talk about Jimmy the Bomber Couture, you know, and, and Cam, [00:01:00] he came over as a child, I believe from Sicily. Now, if I’m wrong on that, let me know guys, but it, it looks like he was naturalized after he got here, but probably as a young man or a child you know, he, he got married, had a couple of kids and, and, and we’re talking about the, the twenties. By 1929, he’s, he is in his early 20s, I believe, and, you know, the stock market crashes and, and he’s a young guy, got a couple of kids trying to scuffle out a living and kind of interesting note I found on that when the stock market crashed, banks weren’t lending out money. And you know what happened when the banks quit lending out money? That’s when the loan shark business started. I never put that together before. Did you, Cam? Do you ever think about that? You know, I didn’t in that, in that capacity, it’s, it’s interesting how there was such a conglomeration of so many different things that went into in that time period, like you said, the banks collapsed, the alcohol became illegal, all the immigrants started [00:02:00] pouring into the country. And that, that confluence of different things really is, is what, what blew up, what we came to. That was, is the mafia, you know, it was all, it was just the perfect storm that led to all these rackets that blew up. I mean, it really was the time and the place to start an organized crime empire. Really? And, and, you know, loan sharking, if you think about it, it had all those Sicilian immigrants and, and the banks were all ran by the English and the Germans, and they’re not going to loan anything to new newly arrived immigrant. Plus the immigrant can’t read the paperwork and probably can’t speak the language. So, you know, the loan sharking business, you know, was going to come up. It was really interesting. And with, with bootlegging and a variety of other things, of course, there were some narcotics business going on at the time coming out of. Cuba going up through the Midwest and, and, and in New York, and that was all by the mafia. So, you know, it was, it was a perfect storm for that. You know, he ends up being, you know, they list him in the sentence census [00:03:00] in the 1930 census as a presser and a trailer shop, tailor shop. But pretty few years later, he’s a retail meat market. then he’s an inmate in the Illinois State Penitentiary during this time. So he’s a real renaissance man, is a renaissance man, the man for all seasons. The census did indicate he had completed the fourth grade. So he wasn’t like most of these guys, you know, they didn’t go, if they went to high school, that was back then, especially hardly anybody went to high school, unless you were of a certain class, all the working class kids, you went to eighth grade, ninth grade, and then you were on, you were working. So that’s what he did, but he was maybe not a you know, a genius scholar, a Rhodes scholar or anything like that, but he learned the streets and he learned it from a guy, which is interesting, a guy named James Bellacastro, who was known as the king of bombers. So he learned from the king of [00:04:00] bombers and he will eventually become known as the. Jimmy the Bomber Catuara. So go figure that man. That’s right. And Belcastro was a big deal. There were a couple of guys who, who came after Belcastro who, who took that name, the bomber, but you know, they, he had a whole string of bombers that came after Belcastro. Matter of fact, one of his early arrests was he and a guy named William Palermo were apprehended with a bomb and that was in 1933. He even got a little description of it. He had seven sticks of dynamite and they were getting ready to go to trial and the defense would contend that the bomb was planted on them by the cops, which is, you know, I’m not sure how that works, but I guess, you know, I guess they were you know, it’d be possible they’d try to shake them down or something. Those same cops would testify that he had offered him a thousand dollar bribe while he was at the police station. So he was doing pretty good early on. Thousand dollars. Yeah, that’s a lot of damn money in [00:05:00] 1933. Jesus, I don’t know how, I don’t know how you could resist that in 1933. I couldn’t, I couldn’t bribe a cop for 1, 000 tomorrow. They charge you with attempted bribery and he ended up getting five to 25 years. I never understood those indeterminate sentences, but I think it’s, I think it is to, to keep. people, keep them better prisoners because they’ve got a chance of maybe getting out because you have this indeterminate sentence. So, you know, you could be a good prisoner and then have a chance at getting out early because, you know, there’s not a locked in time that you have to stay there, wouldn’t you say? Would you hazard a guess on that? That makes really good sense that I hadn’t thought about it. I’ve seen those sentences before, you know, in the reading that you and I do a lot and I never really got it. I thought, you know, that was sort of a broad outlining, but it really does make sense. And it is sort of a, you know, a reason that they should an incentive for, for, for good behavior. You know, and [00:06:00] he was in Chicago and it seemed like this is the thirties. But Capone had something to do with the dairy business at one time. And this was, this mom was. Arrest was something to do with a string of bombings in the dairy business. So somebody was trying to line up the dairy business back during the 30s, I would say. That was Curly Curly Humphreys had a lot to do with that. They figured if you could, if you could line up the milk and, you know, milk was everywhere. You had the, just like with everything, you had the, the milk unions and they delivered the milk around just like, you know, years later in, in Jersey, like you should have the garbage, but if you could line up the. The milk lobbies, that was one of the first unions that they were known for, for getting lined up was, was, was the the milk haulers. And that actually led to several types of legislation for how clean milk had to be and different things. I mean, it was really revolutionary how currently view the the unions and things. Yeah, he was, he was a genius. He was smart. He was an [00:07:00] organizer. He, he knew he didn’t need to go around beating people up and robbing stores and transporting narcotics. And booze was legal by now, but he knew to get into those unions and organize people and extort money from businesses. Guy was a, guy was a genius, really. He register for the draft they found out in, in you know, for World War II, but he never served. A lot of guys did serve in World War II whether you’re in the mob or not, but a lot of people served. It was kind of unusual if you didn’t. He was a little bit old actually, I think, to to be going in. The next time he gets questioned about bombings, it’s about bombing. the homes of some brothers that own a paper company, the Victory Paper Company. I’m not sure what that was all about, but it’s alleged that those, that paper company was supplying paper to the policy operators. You know, they had to have paper to write down the bets. You know, interesting thing when I was looking researching. The bomber, they [00:08:00] described the policy and said the name of policy came from the fact that there were, there are these insurance policies that people pay like 50 cents a week on or 25 cents a week on it. And, and I, they, they still have that. And so it was a little bit like that. You go, you’d write down their name and get their 25 cents for the, the wheel for the lottery. And so it looked a little bit like, you know, an insurance policy collector, the guys that went around and collected from all the. You know, 15, 25 cents, 50 cents a week from people to, they just want to, poor people just want a burial policy. I remember that’s been going on a long time. I think it’s still a certain business of that out there. Oh yeah. So anyhow, just a little aside there about the policy. You know, he was he was arrested and charged with and released, of course, for more bombings in Chicago area. They bombed a gas station trying to organize gas station employees to join a union. So the usual kind of [00:09:00] mob activities where you need to. To force people to intimidate people to join a union or to go on strike or not go on strike or solve a strike or, you know, whatever you need to be done. And then when an election, when an election, this guy would go around and do a little bombing for him. So he had that name righteously, but Jimmy, the bomber and he had it all along. Matter of fact, he he was questioned about that gas station bombing and the Teamsters, I guess, I don’t quite understand is what I read the Teamsters offered a reward for whoever was planting these bombs. I’m not quite, I don’t quite understand that, but you never know. You gotta look into it a little deeper sometimes. If you’re trying to cover up who did something, you run the Teamsters, you know, that’s, that’s, we’ll talk about a sort of a little sleight of hand of the mob later on, but that sounds like the kind of thing where, you know. If you are the one that does the bomb and you’re the one that puts out the reward, it kind of draws the attention [00:10:00] away from you. Here’s one of his first murders that they really tried to link to him, and it was a guy that worked for him as a part time, as in a collection agency that he had, you know, kind of his loan sharking, somebody’s loan sharking business, and he was like, he was going out doing some collecting for a loan sharker loan sharking business, and this guy worked for him, and that guy was found strangled to death, and then he’s trunk, you know, the old Chicago trunk music thing. I think they pioneered that, I don’t know. So that, that was one of his first murders. That he was charged or not charged with, but was questioned. So he was you know he did have somebody that came up early that challenged him and that was Albert Toko. And you know, he’s he was kind of South side guy. And, and so do you remember, remember when he was kidnapped? This is what we’re jumping on into the seventies. I mean, I don’t know if there’s anything else in between. So in between you get Al Toko [00:11:00] started into the stolen car racket in the late sixties, he goes into prison. So they’re both South side guys at this time. And you’ve got, is, he’s a, he’s a pretty heavy hitter. He’s been around for a long time. Pilato is, I’m sorry, Toco is an up and coming guy. He works under Pilato and he starts this. This racket, Indiana and parts of Illinois, really the Wild West, their, their laws regarding switching VIN numbers and, and, and keeping track of those records were so lax and, and security was just non existent as far as what was required to, to, for insurance purposes and different things. I mean, so that he discovered this and the racket really shot through the roof. It became eventually a 30 to 40 million a year racket, but Togo goes into prison late 60s. That’s it. At that point Jimmy Guitar comes and he takes over the racket. I mean, it’s, it’s sort of in his neighborhood. And so he decides he’s going to step up and he’s going to take over to go zone [00:12:00] racket. And he puts together a crew of guys He’s got a guy, Steve Ostrowski, who owns owns a chop shop. All his guys own chop shops, basically. Richie Ferraro and Joseph Theo, Earl Abercrombie. And his main muscle Adorino and obviously Billy Dauber. And Billy Dauber is a psychopathic murderer. And it’s always good to have one of those guys if you if you are a mob heavy hitter. So he puts together this band of guys. And Toko eventually gets out of prison. And this was around this time before Toko, really, Catuara was at loggerheads with Pallado. Toko thought that, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, there’s so many vowels, you know, I have a problem with my vowels. So, Catuara was at loggerheads with Pallado. He thought he was going to take over the Southside crew when Frank Laporte died. There’s a meeting at the back of the funeral home when LaPorte passed, and you’ve got you’ve got Paul the waiter, and you’ve [00:13:00] got you’ve got Tony Cardo, and they come to the conclusion that after Frank LaPorte, it is not going to be Jimmy Kitara who takes over the, the South Suburban crew, the Southside crew, it’s going to be it’s going to be, Who becomes their, the capo down there. And that really, really pushed that was a, a really bothersome thing for Qatar, who was an old guy, an old. school guy and thought that he really deserved it. And that was about the time that he started taking over Tocco’s rackets because Tocco was Pallado’s guy. And he steps into these, he builds up this crew of heavy hitters that we mentioned. Toko comes out of prison and Pallado is still having problems with with this Katara. And so, there was so much money in these chop shops. And all these guys own their own, their own junk yards and guitars guys around 1976. The damn broke a lotto and Tocco [00:14:00] decide they’ve had enough. And guitar has got to go, but they can’t just take him out because he’s got a lot of standing and believe it or not, there is a lot of respect in that world for the old Sicilian guys, you can’t even, you know, and I know that we don’t always understand the dynamics of what they consider respect. I mean, you know, Gary, it’s, it’s, it’s weird. His guys don’t hold the same. So they start taking them out one at a time. You know what? Almost you get, you get an October, this Ostrowski who was like his right hand man, and then in almost two a month in 1977, two in June, two in July, and then in August, and, and this is where you really see the wild bunch. This is, they were the real heavy hitters in taking these guys. Doubt until you get to San Manino. That was a real public murder and the cas grew in the wild bunch teaming up. Qatar’s watching all his guys die. But they can’t kill Qatar. So they kidnap him and they sort of warn him, see, [00:15:00] you’re done. You’re on the shelf. Interesting. So that was when they tried to shelf him. Let, let’s make sure that everybody understands. Now, this is all geographically, this is all in the southwest part of Chicago, and this is Chicago is gonna the Chicago Heights crew, right. Correct. The Chicago Heights Crew. The Southside Chicago Heights Crew. Yeah, correct. I should have called it the Chicago Heights Crew. Which was ran by Frank LaPorte, goes all the way back to Capone days. Correct. And this, this borders on to Indiana. And so then you’ve got these different guys out there that have junkyards and of course, chop shops you know, body shops and they’re stealing cars. I knew a guy here in Kansas City, steal cars. He’d take them out to a farm and he’d cut them up and then he had a series of body shops that he was connected to and they’d actually call him and they’d say, Hey, I need a, you know, I need a front clip for a blue Cadillac. Now this guy would go out and find a blue 72 Cadillac or [00:16:00] 82 Cadillac. Steal that car and and you’d have part of the parts sold many times and so then they do runs clear up through the mid all around the midwest and so that’s what these guys were doing after zoom was cutting them up and then selling them to other body shops. Anywhere else in the country was really strict on where did these parts come from? Yeah. You know, where did you get that front clip? Where did you get that tie rod? Where did you get these different that, that, that right from that door that, that, where did you get these parts? And Indiana and Illinois, they were so lax on their record keeping and their requirements that it was, it was literally the wild west, this specific geographic area, their record keeping methods. It really created the perfect storm. That was kind of what what set the stage for this kind of job shop activity. So when Blank Report dies, it’s the, the hierarchy, Paula Wader and Tony Ocardo, [00:17:00] Joe Batters, they meet, and you know, they appoint the next boss of the Chicago Heights crew, and that ends up being Al Pilato, who, so Jimmy Catuara was this old time guy, now he was, He was, I don’t think he was from down there because he got killed way up in the path. Right. Yeah. But he, he had been working down there and now he’s out in a way. So in the Al Tocco is in and out of jail who are going to be more important later on in the outfit. But so I, okay, now I understand. I never understood this chop shop wars because it was. Geographically so far away from the patch, from, you know, the, the guys downtown from Joy Lombardo and you know, Cicero and all that, that I, now I finally got my, my mind around that. I, I appreciate that. One reason I wanted to do this show to help me get my mind around this chop shop wars because it was so huge. God, they killed so [00:18:00] many guys. So I’m sorry. Yeah. You were at the point that they’ve kidnapped Jimmy Couture, held him in the trunk, I think more than a day or two, wasn’t it? Yeah. And that was, that was to let him know, I mean, when we say you’re shelved, you’re shelved. We’re not going to give you another warning. Not gonna, this is it, this is it, you know? And so, because otherwise they would have just killed him. But as, as, you know, we mentioned earlier, there is a strange sort of respect. For that it has to had to exist in that mob world where they didn’t just kill every guy that made a man. I mean, there were rules. They were obviously broken at times, but there were rules that protected guy is, you know in in their own way. I mean, there was a hierarchy and they didn’t just kill Qatar. He was an old, well respected Sicilian guy, and there was a lot of respect for the Sicilians in Chicago. I mean, if you look at what happened after a car note, basically all the leadership Going forward was always [00:19:00] Ilian. So they, they didn’t just kill him, they kidnapped him. They, you know, gave him his walking papers and that was that. For a while. Now, while this is all transpiring, Illinois decides they need to crack down on a lot of this chop shop activity. The Illinois State Police forms a special task force led by Lieutenant Vladimir Ivkovic and Ivkovic as his old guys. And they really start going after this chop shop activity in Illinois. I mean, statewide, it’s big. And if Kovich, one day in I believe it’s 78, he finds a bomb outside of his home police. And this is state police lieutenant. The bomb is right next to the gas you know, the gas hookups for his home. Yeah. I mean, you, you as a, it’s cold as an officer. That’s, that’s not done. It’s cold. That is not, that is not done, is never done. So, but what they. [00:20:00] And I think that there were some problems. The bomb wasn’t so, they said if it had gone off, but it was just sort of sitting there and I think it wasn’t active or whatever. It was just sort of sitting there. A bomb happened to be sitting at the, at the at the home of the police, the state police lieutenant in charge of the chop shops. Very shortly thereafter, Jimmy the Bomber Catuara is executed walking through Chicago. And then it’s not, you know, it was never known who planted the bomb or anything like that, but my theory has always been that. Katara wouldn’t lay down, wouldn’t remain shell, wouldn’t do what he was told, and so this was used as sort of a justification. There was only one guy in Chicago named The Bomber at that time. So they leave a bomb, a relatively inert bomb, dangerous but relatively inert, they leave it at the head guys. Place this guy who would really be going after Toko’s guys at the time because Toko had basically won the chop shop wars and was starting in with [00:21:00] Lombardo. That’s another story. So that justified. The execution of Jimmy the Bomber Katara, because, well, look guys, he’s clearly out of control, going after state police, so we had to take him out, and then they don’t have to worry about it, they found, they found a reason to kill him, to where they didn’t have to worry about the Sicilian respect and all that jazz, and that’s what I’ve always seen. That was always my guess, obviously it’s not written down, nobody’s talked about it, but I always thought that was a false front that they used to justify killing Katara. Yeah, heck Toko, you know, rather than keep dealing with him, he might’ve just put that bomb up there by the, he knew whoever put that bomb there, they didn’t intend on it going off. They didn’t want too much heat brought down on them, but they knew the, the heat was going to come down from that bomb. And, and who’s it going to come down on? It going to come down on Jimmy the bomber. I mean, that’s, that’s a, that’s a really good. I would say, I, I just can’t imagine that he would [00:22:00] do that. I mean, when you’re in that position, you don’t really care that much about the police state police and local police. You kind of worry about the FBI, but by the time you know, they’re there, it’s too late anyhow, they’re just serving search warrants and getting your records. He was, he was an old man at this time. I mean, no, you’ve seen so. Yeah, I, I would say, unless he was a senile old man that that thought, well, this is, you know, like he went back to the old days, he thought he was still working for Al Capone or something. Right, Pineapple Primary, you know. Really? Well, that’s in fact, my story, you know, it’s kind of interesting that they would they would import guys from another crew, like the Wild Bunch and, and Jerry Scalise and, and Harry Aleman and some of those guys, was it Nicole Nicoletti? Some of them would bring them down from the Taylor, was it the Taylor Street crew or was that the yeah, they, they were they were Cicero and then Cicero crew. The, the Cal. Yeah. There were 2, 2 2 murderous crews out there was the Calabrese crew. [00:23:00] Yeah. Oh yeah. The Wild Bunch. They were the two crews. But still, though, the Southwest is so geographically isolated from and it ran all the way to Gary, Indiana. I mean, they really covered a huge area. So they probably had I probably had a lot of body shots down in Gary, Indiana, more than likely. It was it was that was you. The Chicago Heights crew covered the largest geographic area. With the exception of, I mean, of course you can say that, that, you know, Grand Avenue went all the way out to Vegas, but the largest geographic area was definitely the Chicago Heights group. Or you could say some of them went down to Des Moines. That’s right. They had Louie Fratto down there in Des Moines. So that’s right. Jerry knows G. O. A. I don’t know who they were. Actually, I think they were like, Kind of their own capo of, of Des Moines, if you will. It was so different back then, you know, compared to what it would eventually evolve to and how, how things were changed. So yeah, they [00:24:00] were kind of independent operators, but yeah, once it became more structured, yeah, this was just geographically, it was just a massive area, you know, the outfit it’s I can’t believe there hasn’t been more. Some kind of movies, decent movies about the outfit. There’s so many stories, so many great stories. I keep hearing, and you know Bulldog Drummond told me that he had been consulted, and, and there were people working on, at one time, a movie on Ocado, but You know how movies are, you hear about one and then you just never hear about it again. I know two or three like that people, you find out, you know, they’ve, they’ve even like got people saying so and so’s playing this part. So and so’s playing this part. This director’s on board and all that. And then you just never hear from it. It falls through. Exactly. You just never know how that’s going to happen. But anyhow I really appreciate you helping me with this story. It’s just one of those. Little stories that I’ve always [00:25:00] been confused about and I, and I figure if I’m confused, there’s a lot of mob fans and, and mob scholars that, you know, are, are kind of call ourselves scholars. A lot of interested people is the outfit. Interested people have heard about all this, the chop shop wars and Jimmy the bomber, but I never really understood because like I said, just so geographically Disassociated from the rest of the outfit to me that I couldn’t quite get get it together. How that fit how that worked together. And I have to assume that whatever they made out there, the Al Pilato, then he was kicking back up to sure. Yeah, I put later on. You know, 30 40 million a year racket in total course. The mob wants to not lock down as much of that as possible. And so, in addition to what was going on between guitar and Toko, they were killing individual guys, just like when they were trying to lock down the street tax. They were doing basic. [00:26:00] The, the the car theft tax also, it was all part of the same citywide scheme that they were doing. And so it’s, it’s not always clear who was killed as part of an actual, the war and who was killed to get them in line. You know, it was a really messy time that was going on. And, and you’ve seen the lists. I mean, they were dropping bodies left and right. They were. Guys, I’ll put in the show notes, I’ll I’ll put a copy of that list. So go to the show notes and you can see all the people a little bit about how they died. It’s kind of interesting. It’s kind of frightening in a way that they were killing that many people, man. And Billy Dauber, of course, he was Couture’s ace number one guy. From what I heard you say, I didn’t really quite realize where he fit in. And that was one of the more, more famous mob murders, really, if you will, because again, Bulldog. John Drummond almost got to witness that. They were watching the Adam News crew that were filming Billy Dahmer coming out of the courthouse. It was one of the other northern county courthouses. Will [00:27:00] County, yeah. Will County. And he was coming out and they, Drummond wanted to follow him. And he didn’t because they had something else downtown. They, their producer told him, get on back down to the loop and do something, film something and Dobber and his wife drive away. And, and who, who was in that hit crew was Jerry Scalise. The Calabrese brothers. And, and I think he had Petrocelli and I mean, you had, you had everybody, it was a whole crew out there that followed them as they went out and they lived in a rural area and. Killed Billy Dauber. He must have. Billy and Charlotte. And his wife too. They must have really been scared of that Billy Dauber to go that far to get him. And I think they’ve said that. I think Frank Calabrese Jr. remembers his father talking and he said, oh, he is very dangerous. It was all of us. Huh. Interesting. All right, Cam, you got anything else we need to say about this? I, you know, the chop shop wars, it was one of the, I don’t know if you remember this, Gary, but you were, you did a [00:28:00] show about Harry Aleman and I got into the wild bunch and that was us, us doing Butch Petruccelli, but that really led me down the, led me down the Primrose path into the chop shop wars and, and that was. really what got me started us working together. And so this is sort of coming back full circle. I mean, this is one of the first deep dives that I did for you. And I really, I have so much fun coming on here. I really appreciate it. It’s been you know, and I I’ve had a, had a year and I, I really really love coming on. I’m gonna have to Start coming back. Alright, we, we’ll get you back more regular and do a few more Chicago stories. I kind of get caught up. Absolutely. Brother. Tried to do, I, I do a couple, did a couple of Kansas City things. I just put one up about the River Key War and then putting one up about the war between the Ellas and the Spiros. I did these a long time ago. I thought, well, I just, I’m gonna, I’m gonna redo ’em and, and put ’em back up again. So I just did them and kind of, I saw the one you did about Johnny. Green. Johnny Green. Yeah, I just, he was killed with two guys. I tell you what, these two guys, they do, [00:29:00] they wanted to take out Johnny Green. He lived about a block from Nick Zabella, the boss, and, and they wait for him to come home at night. He had a joint and he comes in late at night. And he has a garage door opener and he opens the garage door and they’re standing right around the sides of the garage where you can’t see him to this day when I pull in my garage, I go ahead and shut the garage door as soon as I get clear inside because they just step inside and blast him in the shotgun. I mean, you got him trapped right there inside of his car. He can’t do anything. Guys, that’s a scary thing. So yeah, I don’t know. I just did a couple. I’ve got two I just put up about Springfield, Massachusetts. There’s a guy named Nick Parisi that wrote a book. And then there was a lady, Pasqualina, about Pasqualina Albano, who was married to the guy who has a different name, the king of the bootleggers at one time. He got killed by, by this Nick Parisi who wrote his own book. He got killed by Parisi’s ancestor Joseph, I think, [00:30:00] Joseph Parisi. So I’m doing the spring, the old days of the Springfield mob here in the next couple of weeks. So Springfield’s really interesting. Yeah. Yeah, it is. And you know, I found out how come it’s still kind of influenced by the Genovese families because of this Pasquale, Pasquale, Pasqualina married a guy from the Genovese family, but he was a weak sister, but he brought some of his relatives out and he died actually of natural causes, I think, but the Genovese influence never left Springfield, Massachusetts. There’s a gal on the MobBeat reporter, I’ll talk to you offline, but yeah, it’s really, she does a great, yeah, does a great job on the MobBeat up there. I’ve recommended everybody, I’ll have to dig her name up, but that, you know, there’s some great mob, mob journalists that are still around. And if y’all, if y’all dig a little bit, you can find them. There’s some, there’s some good mob writing still, and it’s been going on for a while. Yeah, really. I’d tell you the guy that I’m always impressed by. [00:31:00] And he only does New York stuff. A guy, he writes under Ed Scarpo. Yes. He is really, really good and really detailed. He knows a lot of people. He’s the one that really hooked me up with Michael DeLeonardo out of the Gambino family when I got the chance to interview him, but this guy’s got sources like you can’t believe. I’m always impressed with him. Yeah. All right, Cam. All right, brother. I really appreciate you finish this off, guys. You know that I like to ride motorcycles. So be sure and look out for motorcycles when you’re out there. And if you have a problem with PTSD and you’ve been in the service get on the V. A. And Get that hotline number and hand in hand with PTSD comes problems with drugs and alcohol. Well, we’ve got Anthony Ruggiano, former Gambino soldier that is has a drug and alcohol. Well, he actually works in a drug and alcohol place down in Florida and he’s got a hotline on his Facebook or his website. So be sure to like and subscribe and give me a [00:32:00] review and do all that kind of stuff. Tell your friends about the podcast and you can’t check out the gangland wire podcast group anymore. So find me. On Facebook, if you’re interested, and I’ll invite you to join, we had to go private. We got too many, too many too much stuff going on. I just couldn’t take it anymore. It’s a big podcast group. It’s got a lot of really interesting discussions from people who were, you know, grew up in the neighborhoods or had relatives that were involved in different families, whether it’s Chicago or, or New York, Kansas City or whatever. I even had a Kansas City mob guy on there who ran another Kansas City guy that’s kind of a periphery guy off because he posted up some pictures. So I got a Kansas City mob guy on it too. Yeah. All right, Cam. Thank you. Let me do a quick plug. I’ve got my book Swan Song with Frank Calabrese Jr’s wife Swan Song, sort of a real Chicago mob wife. It’s a, [00:33:00] it’s a. Great, great great story of a different take on the story for Mob Wives telling how a strong woman dealt with a hitman as her father in law. And I really, I really think everybody should check it out. It’s a good look inside a mob family from from A view that you don’t see very often. So yeah, it’s a great book folks. I’ve read it. We’ve got, if you look up, I’ve got an old interview somewhere in the last year or two years. I don’t know. You can find it on the just search for Lisa Swan, Camillus Robinson, Gangland Wire. You’ll find that interview too. But yeah, it’s a really good book. I hear she might go out and do a show in Las Vegas with Frank Calabrese. Her husband, her ex husband is out there permanently. He’s pushing for it. I was out there last week. I went to the Ma Museum and you know, Gary, you, you hooked me up with the guys out there and I talked to them and they were there. All about it. And like I said, you know, Frank is their [00:34:00] mobster in residence. You know, universities have their writers in residence and the mob has their mobsters in residence. He’s out there and he’s pushing for it. And I talked to her and she would be really excited about going out there. So I think it’s a, I think it would really be a great opportunity to have this husband and wife talk about how they lived the life. And, and what went on behind closed doors in the, in the world of hit man, loan shark, all around horrible guy, Frank Calabrese senior. Yeah, I just, it’s, it’s her description of that guy. So I tell you what, I guess you just live through things. You don’t know when you live in that life, you don’t know the danger and, and what you’re really dealing with. I mean, she knew, but. You know, part of it, you know, it’s just, it’s a fascinating book and, and I hope they can get those guys together out there. Plus it’ll give them a big plug for your book too. So I always want to make that money, [00:35:00] you know, give me that money, baby, make that money. All right, Ken, thank you. Take care, Gary.

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