Chef Joe Flamm grew up in a big Italian family, where there was always sauce bubbling on the stove. The rule of the house was: if you walked in the kitchen, you stirred the sauce. Since then Joe has worked in Michelin-starred restaurants, won Season 15 of Top Chef, and now opened his first restaurant in Chicago, Rose Mary. It’s named after his two grandmothers and inspired by his Italian heritage. Like Dan, Joe has strong opinions about pasta, but he takes sauce just as seriously. Joe tells Dan why rigatoni carbonara will always win out over spaghetti carbonara, when it’s better to skip fresh pasta and go with the dried stuff, and the one thing you never want to do when saucing any kind of pasta.

This episode is sponsored by Bertolli. Their new Bertolli d’Italia sauces are made in Italy, crafted with vine-ripened tomatoes under the Italian sun, finely-aged Italian cheeses, fresh cream, and Mediterranean olive oil. Find sauces, recipes and meal inspiration at bertolli.com/ditalia. //

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