Welcome to episode nine of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

In this episode, presenters Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and lay Buddhist practitioner and journalist Jo Confino are joined by special guest Zen Buddhist nun Sister True Dedication (Sister Hien Nghiem). Together, they look deeply at the whole concept of engaged Buddhism, and ways in which Thich Nhat Hanh made ancient teachings relevant to day-to-day questions.

Additionally, they discuss: how Plum Village is shedding the stereotypes about Buddhist monastic life; how to refresh Buddhism through a hands-on approach and engaging teachings in daily life; what it means to not take sides; the roots of evil; reducing suffering through compassionate action; healing; patience. 

Brother Phap Huu digs into: what it means to apply Buddhism in contemporary life; the spiritual dimension of breathing; the importance of communities and practice centers as spiritual refuges; the dynamics of anger coming up; moving from anger to peace in activism. Plus: can you guess the one time it’s best not to do sitting meditation?

Sister True Dedication shares insights about: the early events in Thich Nhat Hanh’s life which led to the inception of the engaged Buddhism movement in war-torn Vietnam; Thay’s peace activism and his exile; Buddhism’s potential to deal with injustice; Plum Village monastery’s engagement with the outside world and what this busy community of monastics has to offer it, through retreats and active engagement in various causes. She also delves into ways of handling strong emotions, deep looking, understanding the roots of our suffering, and the importance of dialogue. And what does compassion look like in a time of crisis? How can we listen to those people in our lives who we least want to listen to?

Jo remembers his first visit to Plum Village, and tea with Thay. He further muses on: how feeling steady and grounded can act as “the tuning fork” of our being; how we can perpetuate mindful living by simply approaching the world mindfully; failure and criticism.

Finally, Brother Phap Huu ends the episode with a guided meditation on embracing suffering with compassion.

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resources 

Engaged Buddhismhttps://plumvillage.org/series/engaged-buddhism/ 

Mindfulness, Suffering, and Engaged Buddhismhttps://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/interviews-with-thich-nhat-hanh/thich-nhat-hanh-on-mindfulness-suffering-and-engaged-buddhism/The Practice for Engaged Buddhismhttps://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-practice-for-engaged-buddhism/

Please Call Me by My True Nameshttps://plumvillage.org/library/songs/please-call-me-by-my-true-names-poem/

Israeli Palestinian Retreathttps://plumvillage.org/teachings/israeli-palestinian-retreat/ 

Invoking the Bodhisattvahttps://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/invoking-the-bodhisattva-dharma-talk-by-sister-lang-nghiem-2020-6-21/

Bodhicittahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhicitta

Gross National Happinesshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_National_HappinessGreta Thunberghttps://www.instagram.com/gretathunberg/

Koch brothershttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koch_family

Quotes

“We need to act with the urgency of today and the patience of a thousand years.”

“Thay says that it doesn’t matter if you’re Buddhist, Jewish, or Christian; as long as you’re breathing, you have a spiritual dimension and can practice.”

“I’d describe Plum Village as a beautiful oasis, and an engine of healing, transformation, and training. So we’re really training in practical skills that we can later take back into life outside the monastery.” 

“The most effective tool in my toolbox is to turn up mindfully, because it gives others the chance to also come home.” 

“[Thay] said, when we hear the bombs falling all around us, how can we sit there and do nothing, or sit there and just chant? It’s not enough. Our compassion has to reveal itself.”

“In multiple talks, Thay says that everyone needs a spiritual dimension in order to cope with what’s happening in the world, or to themselves. We may have that aspiration, but we need companions to support us. That’s where a community comes in and can be an example, can lead, and can also be a companion.”

“When Thay was exposed to peace activists and events and retreats and conversations and dialogue, his realization was that there’s a lot of anger in the peace movement. This became the kernel of Thay’s development of real practices of peace, so that, as an individual peace activist, we have a way to calm our body, to calm our emotions, to keep our mind clear, and to be truly nonviolent in body and mind.”

“You could send all the bombs to the moon, but you would still have the roots of war in people’s hearts and minds. It’s not about destroying all the nuclear warheads; it’s about destroying the nuclear warheads that are there because we hate each other, because we resent each other, because we can’t handle the other side politically, because we can’t handle people who have betrayed us. So for Thay, then, the challenge became this much deeper, human one: of creating environments where we can heal, transform, and look deeply, and make use of Buddhist teachings.”

“Our practice is to understand the roots of our suffering.”

“A bigger impact is what we carry from thought into our daily action, whether by words or by deed.”

“Man is not our enemy. It is ignorance, fear, and despair that is the root of all of this negative action.”

“When we say that, in our tradition, we do our best to not take sides, we don’t deny that people are doing what we would call wrong action or wrong speech, or perpetrating injustice against others and creating harm. What it means is that we position ourselves a little differently, and want to avoid placing blame and the aggressive stance of labeling someone a perpetrator. Because, with our way of looking at things, the perpetrator is themselves also a victim, of their wrong view, and of the wrong way of seeing the world, which is leading to this hate speech or hateful action.”

“Man is not the enemy. The enemy is wrong views. And, according to Buddhist teaching, the way to liberate ourselves from wrong views is with deep looking, and with listening, and reexamining what’s going on. And for that, we need a huge amount of compassion and collective energy, which monastics can help to bring.” 

“When you’re angry, you are not very clear, you are not very present, and you won’t really see what to do and what not to do. Because, at that moment of energy erupting inside of you, the natural tendency is to act, to punish. Anger goes with punishment; they are very linked. And often we will want to retaliate, to make the ones who made us suffer, suffer themselves. But in Buddhism, we want to break free from that; we see that they make us suffer because, actually, they suffer.”

“Taking time to see the hurt that precedes the hatred and the anger, and to give that hurt the witness, the embracing, the holding, and ultimately the healing by bringing it out to the light and saying, actually, it is this hurt that we need to take care of. That work takes time. It’s not the work of one or two days; in Plum Village, those retreats would be at least two weeks long. Fourteen days of breathing, of living simply, of mindful walking, mindful eating, quiet time, sitting and breathing and meditation, as well as the support of a whole community.” 

“We cannot possibly build a future unless we’re able to talk to each other, unless we’re able to dialogue across the divide, unless we’re able to respect each other’s differences and different needs.”

“When we’re angry at someone, we’re always angry at ourselves. When we see someone else being wrong, we’re always, to some extent, thinking that we’re wrong.” 

“There’s enough suffering already, we don’t have to contribute more.”