Tristan Harris, the co-founder of the Center for Humane Technology, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher in these two best-of interview excerpts. In the first interview, originally published in January 2017, Harris discusses his background and the Center's best-known initiative, "Time Well Spent." In the second interview, originally published in May 2019, he talks about a follow-on initiative called "Human Downgrading," a term chosen to describe what engagement-driven tech does to people without them realizing. Featuring: Tristan Harris (@tristanharris), co-founder, Center for Humane Technology Hosts: Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large More to explore: On Reset, Arielle Duhaime-Ross explores why — and how — tech is changing everything. On Recode Media, Peter Kafka interviews business titans, journalists, comedians and podcasters about the collision of tech and media. On Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway talk about the big tech news stories of the week, who's winning, who's failing, and what comes next. And on Season 1 of Land of the Giants, Jason Del Rey chronicled the rise of Amazon — and now, on Season 2, Peter Kafka and Rani Molla are examining "the Netflix effect." About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us. Follow Us: Newsletter: Recode Daily Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices