What if we just got rid of prisons? The United States is the epicenter of mass incarceration – but exactly what is it we hope to get out of putting people in prisons? And whatever your answer is to that – is it working? It’s worthwhile to stop and interrogate our intentions about incarceration and whether it enacts justice or instead satisfies some urge to punish. Prison abolitionist Mariame Kaba wants us to explore some truly radical notions that force us to inspect those instincts towards punishment. Hear her dismantle what she calls the current "criminal punishment system" and instead employ the ideology of restorative justice. Email us at WITHpod@gmail.com Tweet using #WITHpod Read more at nbcnews.com/whyisthishappening RELATED: The Color Complex by Kathy Russel, Midge Wilson, and Ronald Hall Locking Up Our Own by James Forman Jr. Circles and Ciphers Project NIA