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This episode's focus on the (lack of) effectiveness of radical climate activism was perfectly timed. Right after Marshall recorded the intro, activists from Climate Defiance stormed the stage of the Abundance 2024 conference he's MCing in DC. They interrupted Matt Yglesias's interview with The Atlantic's Derek Thompson on the "Abundance Agenda" because of Matt's support for fracking. Today's guest is Foreign Policy's Cameron Abadi, author of Climate Radicals: Why Our Environmental Politics Isn't Working. Marshall and Cameron discuss why doom-centric radical activism isn't advancing the environmental policy agenda in Europe, the state of climate politics in the U.S., and the broader debate over whether it is best to work outside or within the system to enact change.