Welcome to Season 3, Episode 2 of Song Chronicles. Our guest today is Michelle Lewis, an Emmy- and Peabody-winning songwriter and composer and an advocate of songwriters’ rights as executive director of SONA.

Michelle’s parents were both musicians. Her dad was the tenor saxophone player in Frank Sinatra’s band and her mom was a session singer who sang with the likes of Benny Goodman. Michelle talks about what it was like to tag along with her parents in the early seventies scene of working musicians in New York as "the little mascot of the cats."

Michelle recording jingles as a kid

After college, Michelle had a deal with Irving Azoff’s Giant Records as a recording artist. Later her songs were recorded by other artists, including Cher, Amy Grant, Kelly Osbourne, and Lindsay Lohan. We talk about the invisibility of songwriters and the skill involved into distilling your life experience into words that can be sung by someone else, like a screenwriter writing for actors. More recently, Michelle has been a composer for children's television, including Doc McStuffins, for which she won a Peabody Award. She shares how writing for television lets her express a different range of creativity because it's not bound by genre.

Michelle with her Peabody Award

In 2015, Michelle had a cut on an album that sold millions of copies and yet she was paid a fraction of what her 2005 hit was worth. Learning how much streaming technology had devalued the work of songwriters, she got together with songwriters Shelly Peiken, Pam Sheyne, Kay Hanley, Adam Dorn, Jack Kugell, and attorney Dina LaPolt to form SONA, Songwriters of North America. SONA pushes for changes to legislation like the Music Modernization Act which updated how songwriters are paid mechanicals to reflect the streaming music landscape. Michelle breaks down the different sources of revenue for songwriters including mechanicals, performance royalties, publishing, and syncs.

SONA meeting with Senator Edward Markey

Michelle is a mentor with WriteGirl, an organization that provides free mentoring to girls interested in songwriting and other types of writing including poetry, fiction, journalism, and screenwriting. We talk about the experience of helping girls write their first songs and how their lives are changed after seeing their songs performed. Michelle shares a story about watching future National Youth Poet Laureate Amanda Gorman develop her voice in WriteGirl workshops.

WriteGirl songwriting workshop

Enjoy this conversation about the importance of the jobs of songwriters, who provide the soundtrack to our lives.

Welcome to Season 3, Episode 1 of Song Chronicles. Our guest is producer, engineer, and educator Mark Rubel. Mark has produced thousands of recordings for artists including Alison Krauss, Rascal Flatts, Fall Out Boy, Ludacris, and many more. Mark sees humans as storytelling machines, with production and mixing as a unified field of sonic storytelling.

Mark placing microphones to record Roy "Futureman" Wooten at The Blackbird Academy in Nashville

Mark has taught audio technology, the music business, and the history of rock to thousands of students. Previously the Audio and Recording Director and Instructor at Eastern Illinois University, he is now the Director of Education at The Blackbird Academy in Nashville, where he and Louise met, when she was one of his students. He shares the parallels between pacing a lesson and pacing a set list and how teachers are, in a sense, performers when they hold their students’ attention.

Mark teaching students at Blackbird Academy

He’s currently working on a book on the great American recording studios of the '60s and '70s many of which had their own unique setups with obscure pieces of equipment before the studio revolution moved recordings from live tracking to mono to 24 tracks synched up. Describing himself as a "inveterate rabbit hole diver", the task of finishing the book has been monumental. We talk about how Mark finds the motivation and energy to get everything done, what kinds of people make art no matter what, and how his parents influenced him. HIs mother was a journalist and his father was a scientist and mathematician.

“You know" he says, "...if you take science, but high level science, where it's not, it's not just equations, it's  philosophical leaps of problem solving and  finding creative ways to get from one place to another -so that kind of science -and you combine it with what my mother did, which was portraiture in words, and you put them together, you get a record producer, engineer who's making a kind of a technical portrait of someone's essence, and you're trying to portray their personality and, and who they are through sound. So it's, it's a nice combination of those two things.”

Enjoy this conversation about making audio technology accessible to everyone. 

Welcome to Season 2, Episode 12 of Song Chronicles. Our special guests today are the bewitching jazz vocalist Marley Munroe, better known as Lady Blackbird, and the award-winning producer, writer and musician Chris Seefried. Together, the two created the incredible Lady Blackbird debut album Black Acid Soul, which they describe as a genre all its own they almost invented. As Chris explains, the word "jazz" could have been limiting, but he reassured Marley "you can still wear your outfits."

Lady Blackbird’s vocals are often compared to legends like Nina Simone or Billie Holiday, two vocalists she feels trained her. Chris describes what it’s like to have new audiences see Marley perform — it’s almost as if she’s a star they just haven’t heard yet.

As well as being a renowned producer, writer, and musician, Chris is an artist in his own right. We talk about what it’s like for him to be a part of another artist’s project as an artist himself. There’s no conflict for him because, as he says, "We get to play everything we love and listen to the greatest singer in the world sing it."

Black Acid Soul might seem like an overnight success, but many years of work have gone into it.

Marley and Chris in 2014

And releasing a debut record in 2020 was no easy feat — Marley and Chris couldn’t support the record with the standard touring because of the pandemic. 

The project was eventually embraced first by the UK, as often happens with American artists, and Lady Blackbird was invited to play Jools Holland — which Marley and Chris pushed through not realizing they both had COVID.

Listen to a most joyful conversation and hear about Marley and Chris's incredible journey writing, recording and performing this world-class, era-defying music that's worthy of becoming part of serious music fans' most loved artists.

Welcome to Season 2, Episode 11 of Song Chronicles. Our special guest today is Thomas Walsh, an Ivor Novello-nominated songwriter who is the front person and songwriter behind the Irish pop-rock project Pugwash.

As a band, Pugwash released six albums and toured through the UK and Ireland before Thomas returned Pugwash to its roots as a solo project with the most recent album Silverlake. He's currently at work on a new solo album.

Pugwash in 2015

We also talk about The Duckworth Lewis Method, his collaboration with Neil Hannon of The Divine Comedy, and what it's like working with a true partner in co-writing. 

The Duckworth Lewis Method

Thomas is an incredible writer of melodies. We talk about the songwriting process, how he often dreads the process but loves the result, and how he usually writes from his own experience. Though he feels the need to be modest about his own songwriting, I get him to share his favorites of his own songs that he's written throughout his career. As he shares, it's often the songs that come to you quickly that turn out the best.

Thomas performing in 2015

Thomas is a walking encyclopedia of music with the biggest record collection I've ever seen. He shares his obsession with the labels printed on records and the sense memories he associates with 70s music.

He talks about getting to work with many of his influences, including Jeff Lynne, co-founder of Electric Light Orchestra, who told him a funny story about how George Harrison found his awards to be highly valuable — in the garden. You'll also hear a fun story about singing Kinks songs with Ray Davies in the pub.

Thomas with Jeff Lynne

Enjoy this in depth conversation with a true lover of music.

Season 2: Episode 10

Billy Steinberg

Welcome to Season 2, Episode 10 of Song Chronicles. Our special guest is Songwriter Hall of Fame member Billy Steinberg, who with collaborator Tom Kelly wrote many Number 1 hits including "Like a Virgin" by Madonna, "True Colors" by Cyndi Lauper, "So Emotional" by Whitney Houston, "Alone" by Heart, and "Eternal Flame" by The Bangles. The duo also co-wrote "I’ll Stand By You" with Chrissie Hynde and "I Touch Myself" with Christine Amphlett and Mark McEntee of The Divinyls.

Billy Steinberg and Cyndi Lauper in Finland, 1988.

Billy’s first hit song was "How Do I Make You," which Linda Ronstadt decided to record after hearing demos from Steinberg’s band Billy Thermal. In our conversation, Billy shares how he found out Rondstadt would record the song which later reached the Billboard Top 10.

Billy Thermal's unreleased 1980 album

In 1981, Steinberg began a momentous collaboration with songwriter Tom Kelly, with whom he wrote many memorable hits of the 80s and 90s. Billy shares how he and Tom found their groove as co-writers and how they always tried to write to make themselves happy rather than customizing songs for potential artists. Their breakout hit was "Like A Virgin," the title track of Madonna’s second album. You’ll hear Billy’s personal story behind the lyrics to "Like A Virgin" and what it meant for him to hear the song sung by an Italian nun, directed at God.

Billy Steinberg, Tom Kelly, and Chrissie Hynde of The Pretenders, 1992.

Steinberg’s lyrics resonate throughout the years because their themes are universal — which is different from being general or bland, as we discuss. We also talk about how the Brill Building Era inspired him to become a songwriter.

Billy has gone on to write with many other songwriters, including frequent collaborator Josh Alexander with whom he co-write "Give Your Heart a Break" by Demi Lovato and "Too Little Too Late" by Jojo. They have also written numerous songs with the artist LP, whom Steinberg calls "a female Roy Orbison."

Billy Steinberg and LP

Enjoy this interview with Billy Steinberg on what makes songs that stand the test of time. 

Season 2: Episode 9

Jon Platt

Welcome to Episode 9, Season 2 of Song Chronicles. Our special guest is Jon Platt, the Chairman and CEO of Sony Music Publishing – a man Jay-Z proclaimed as the “the Obama of the music industry.”

Jon took a quite unusual path to becoming one of the most powerful and influential (music) publishers of the past 25 years," according to Variety. Born in Philadelphia and raised in Oakland, Jon was a high school student in Denver when he took his first step into the music industry. While working in a sporting goods store, he befriended a local DJ named Thomas Edwards, who showed Jon the deejaying basics and he soon became a popular club DJ.

Jon with Chuck D. photo by Desiree Navarro/Wire Image

Jon's next life-changing moment came when Jon was MC’ing a Public Enemy/Ice Cube concert. He got to talking with Public Enemy’s front-man, Chuck D, who told Jon not to settle for just being a DJ. “My music dream started the next day from that day,” Jon reveals in our conversation.

with Jay-Z

Inspired by Chuck D's words, Jon began managing some songwriters and producers in Los Angeles. In 1995, he got a low-rung job in EMI’s A&R department and quickly struck gold by signing Marqueze Etheridge, co-writer of the TLC’s smash, “Waterfalls,” one of the year’s – and the decade’s – mega hits. He credits his “DJ instincts” for his talent for breaking records like “Waterfalls” as well as his role behind the making of the Jay-Z/Alicia Keys smash single, “Empire State of Mind.”

Jon (on the right) with Sean Combs, Jay-Z, and Clarence Avant, one of Platt's mentor figures. Photo by Kevin Mazur/Getty Image

At EMI Music Publishing, Jon signed Kanye West, Jay-Z, Diddy, Beyoncè, Drake, and Usher, while working his way up to being President of North America, Creative in 2011. He later moved Warner/Chappell, where he was appointed Chairman and CEO in 2015. Then in 2019, he took the same positions at Sony Music Publishing, the world's No. 1 global music publisher with a catalog of over three million songs.

Highly respected inside and outside the music business, Jon has received such honors as SESAC’s Visionary Award, Morehouse College’s Candle Award in Music, Business and Entertainment, and Black Radio Exclusive Magazine’s Man of the Year, and has been a perennial presence on Billboard’s prestigious Power 100 list.

with Pharrell Williams. Photo by Frazer Harrison, Getty Images

Jon’s most cherished honor, however, is the City of Hope’s Spirit of Life Award - because the event raised more than $6 million for the hospital. He wholeheartedly believes in the importance of helping people because you can help. This belief is underscored in the story he shares about assisting in getting Kanye West onto Usher’s Confession tour along with his many philanthropic endeavors – such as starting the Big Jon Platt Scholarship Program in 2005 to help Denver high school students go to college.

Jon with his wife, Angie, Usher, and Rita Ora

He’s extremely proud too for being able to assist songwriters during the pandemic. Jon, who has championed songwriters throughout his career, helped to have Sony’s COVID Global Relief Fund donate over $2 million to songwriters – and not just Sony Music Publishing songwriters -worldwide. We also discuss the Music Modernization Act, which he believes is a step in the right direction for songwriting compensation. It’s important, Jon says, “to do the right thing by songwriters.”

Photo by Mary Beth Koeth

Please enjoy this very special conversation with Jon Platt as he offers his perceptive personal insights along with talking about his unique place in the music business, and his love for music and music-makers.

Welcome to Season 2, Episode 8 of Song Chronicles. Our special guest this week is cardiologist and singer-songwriter Suzie Brown, whose work has been recognized by NewSong Music Competition, the Great American Songwriting Competition, and the International Acoustic Music Awards.

Born in Montreal and raised in Boston, Suzie seemed predestined to follow in her parents’ footsteps to become a doctor and didn’t consider being a musician to be a potential career choice. While pursuing medicine at Harvard Medical School and later at the University of Pennsylvania, she started performing purely for the love of it, joining an a cappella group in college, moonlighting in a production of Hair with other busy grad students, and fronting a cover band during residency.  She wrote her first song during her cardiology fellowship.

Over time, Suzie became a staple of the Philadelphia music scene, where she released her first three albums. Now living in Nashville with her husband Scot Sax, she is a part-time Vanderbilt cardiologist and a full-time mom.

Suzie and her husband Scot Sax

This full plate of responsibilities caring for others means Suzie has to fiercely defend her own creative time. Her sixth record, Under the Surface, was made by stealing away the hours of 6-10pm each evening with her producer Billy Harvey who lives down the street in Nashville. Making music during the COVID-19 pandemic was the one thing she could do for herself that allowed her to process the heartbreak she felt caring for her patients.

In this conversation recorded in March 2021, Suzie shares her insights for tapping into inspiration amidst an impossibly busy schedule, wrestling with perfectionism, and how going to med school prepared her for adjusting to the "new normal" of living in a pandemic.

Enjoy this conversation with Suzie Brown about living a full and fulfilling life.

Welcome to Episode 7 of Season 2 of Song Chronicles. Our featured special guest is Aaron Lee Tasjan. We spoke back in February, right after the release of his fantastic new album Tasjan! Tasjan! Tasjan!

Aaron's newest album

Aaron has led a fascinating life. He's lived in many different corners of the country, and has worked with the New York Dolls, Lucinda Williams, Jack White, and Tony Visconti. In this conversation, Aaron shares insights he learned from the artists he's connected with along the way.

While living in Ohio at age 16, a song of Aaron’s caught the attention of Peter Yarrow, who invited Tasjan onstage to perform with Peter, Paul and Mary. He learned from Yarrow how far songs can go from their intended meaning based on the projection of the listener.

After earning a full scholarship to Berklee College of Music, Aaron dropped out after only one semester to get on with the business of making music. "Learning, that's a two-way street — you have to be open to it," he says.

At the age of 19, he moved to New York City to start living his dream and had to figure out how to become part of the city's network of working musicians. Eventually, he got encouragement from and got to work with some of his Mount Rushmore musical heroes. We talk about the lessons he learned about creative passion and work ethic during that time and how he found community within the NYC music scene.

Aaron met singer-songwriter Justin Tranter and together they formed the glam rock band Semi-Precious Weapons. Tony Visconti produced their debut album. We talk about what makes rock & roll work — Aaron’s take is that rock & roll is slightly embarrassing — and how the band’s manager BP Fallon created rock & roll moments for them, such as connecting them to Kate Moss for a hang that got them on the cover of the Daily Mail.

After Aaron left Semi-Precious Weapons, he spent three years as lead guitarist for the New York Dolls.

Aaron playing with the New York Dolls

Since 2013, Aaron has lived in Nashville, writing songs and recording genre-defying solo work. In this time, he has released five solo albums: In The Blazes (2015), Silver Tears (2016), Karma For Cheap (2018), Karma For Cheap: Reincarnated (2019), and Tasjan! Tasjan! Tasjan! (2021). His songwriting can be heard on recordings by Pat Green, Yola, BP Fallon, and JD McPherson. We discuss the good and bad parts of the professional music culture in Nashville.

BP Fallon and Aaron Lee Tasjan

Aaron's fashion sense is all his own. He makes some of his own clothes, such as the sweater seen on the cover of Tasjan! Tasjan! Tasjan! We talk about what songwriting has to do with sewing and other ways he finds creative inspiration in non-musical activities.

Aaron in the sweater he made

Enjoy this conversation with Aaron about everything that goes in to a creative life.

Season 2: Episode 6

Nicole Atkins

Photo by Barbara FG

Episode 6 of Song Chronicles’ second season features a freewheeling conversation with Nicole Atkins, a singer-songwriter NPR Music hailed as “one of those people who is so inventive in everything she does.”

Last April, Nicole released her fifth full-length, Italian Ice, an album she described as to "an acid trip through my record collection." It certainly serves up an exquisite blend of soul, country, rock, blues, and classic pop that showcases her powerful, dramatic voice.

Unable to do her normal touring for her new album, Nicole got creative and hosted an online record release event. She also started presenting a weekly livestream variety show, We’re All In This Together. During the summer, Nicole switched to doing a live streaming series, Live From the Steel Porch, initially based out of Asbury Park’s Langosta Lounge (near her hometown of Neptune City, New Jersey) and later from The Dive Motel in East Nashville, her current home.

Nicole performing at the Langosta Lounge

In December, Nicole released the holiday single “Every Single Christmas,” which she co-wrote with JD McPherson. (She quite accurately described her version as “Cyndi Lauper and Brenda Lee, the spirit of the NY Dolls and The Ramones' 'Palisades Park,' all rolled up into a National Lampoon’s Christmas movie"). Endlessly creative, she has already put out via Bandcamp this year covers of Brenda Lee’s “Break It To Me Gently” and Hoagy Carmichael’s “Stardust," as well as a duet with her friend Marissa Nadler on The Fleetwoods’ gem “Mr. Blue.”

The pandemic also gave her the opportunity to spend a lot of time with another of creative loves: painting. In fact, this interview took place while she was creating a mural at the Ivy Manor Studios in Sheffield, Alabama in the legendary Muscle Shoals area.

Nicole points out a detail of the mural she was painting at Ivy Manor Studios

Portraits of the Swampers that Nicole painted

Muscle Shoals has been a favorite destination for Nicole of late. It’s the location for her label, Single Lock Records, which was founded by The Alabama Shakes’ Ben Tanner and the acclaimed singer-songwriter John Paul White. She also recorded Italian Ice at the renowned Muscle Shoals Sound Studio. Featuring contributions from Swampers David Hood and Spooner Oldham, Spoon’s Britt Daniels, the album has garnered much acclaim. Consequence of Sound raved that Italian Ice is “the best thing she’s done so far,” and Elvis Costello stated it proves “once more that you can respect the ‘then’ and still be about the ‘now’.”

Nicole outside and inside the Muscle Shoals Sound Studio

Music has been a major part of Nicole’s life since childhood. She began learning piano when she was nine, taught herself guitar at 13, and was playing in bands by seventh grade. While she went to University of North Carolina at Charlotte to study art, Nicole admits she concentrated more on music. During her time in Charlotte, she played in the popular local band Nitehawk and the alt-country group Los Parasols. She then spent several years bouncing between Charlotte and New York City, sometimes playing in groups and sometimes solo.

Nicole performing on Late Night With David Letterman Show in 2007

Attracting major label interest, Nicole and her band The Sea signed with Columbia in 2006, with their debut, Neptune City, appearing in 2007. Nicole had a new band, dubbed The Black Sea, when she started doing her second album; however, problems with Columbia made her leave the label without the album being released. The record (entitled Mondo Amore) eventually came out on Razor & Tie Records in 2011.

Nicole singing at La Zona Rosa at 2010's SXSW. Photo by Kirk Stauffer

While preparing to make album three, Nicole suffered the bad luck of having Hurricane Sandy flood her family’s home. Neptune City producer Tore Johansson invited her to record her album at his studio in Sweden. There she cobbled together songs from fragments she had on her iPhone, which resulted in 2014’s Slow Phaser, her self-described “prog-disco” album.

Photo by Brett Winter Lemon

In concert at Red Rocks Photo By Rett Rogers

Teaming up with Single Lock Records, Nicole recorded her fourth album in Fort Worth, Texas with the production trio Niles City Sound (the team behind Leon Bridges’ breakout debut). The stylish Goodnight Rhonda Lee exudes a retro vibe that attracted comparisons to Dusty Springfield, Roy Orbison, and Patsy Cline, and it’s a sound that evolved into something even more timeless on Italian Ice.

Photo by Barbara FG

Please enjoy our conversation with the multi-talented, thoroughly delightful Nicole Atkins.

Season 2: Episode 5

Bob Ezrin

Part 2

                         This episode features the second half of our conversation with Bob Ezrin.

Few producers have had careers as Bob Ezrin has had. The award-winning producer has worked with some of rock’s biggest acts (Pink Floyd, Aerosmith, Alice Cooper, Green Day, Kiss, Rod Stewart, Jane’s Addiction, and U2).

Bob worked with Jane's Addiction on 2003's Strays album. Photo by Neil Zlowzower

In the first part of our interview, Bob talked about producing The Wall, one of the greatest concept albums in rock history. In fact, he is well known for his work on concept albums, helming such projects as Kiss’s Music From “The Elder,” Lou Reed’s Berlin, Kansas’ In the Spirit of Things, Nine Inch Nails’ The Fragile, and Alice Cooper’s Welcome To My Nightmare & Welcome 2 My Nightmare.

 Bob in the studio with Kiss in 1976

According to Bob, his love for injecting a sense of theatricality into albums comes from his childhood, and his amusing explanation involves a historic record player, Sir Thomas More, and Spike Jones (the comical 1950s bandleader, not Spike Jonze the filmmaker).

Bob flanked by 2Cellos. Photo by The Canadian Press/Michelle Siu 

Producing all those adventurous albums exemplify Bob’s values in record-making, among which that it’s important to see, as well as hear, the music when creating a record. A record is simply another form of theater. His work impressively has covered a broad range of genres: Americana (Jayhawks), New Wave (Berlin), Country (Johnny Reid), Celtic (Natalie McMasters), Classical (2Cellos), Folk (Murray McLauchlan), Jam Bands (Phish), Pop (Air Supply), and Soundtracks (Heavy Metal 2000).

Bob at work with the band Hanggai

The scope of his massively successful work includes recording acts from all over the world, such as Finland (Hanoi Rocks), France (Téléphone), Italy (Andrea Bocelli), Uganda (Geoffrey Oryema), Spain (Héroes del Silencio) and Mongolia (Hanggai).  He also takes on music projects with iconic musician-actors like Tim Curry, Kristen Chenoweth, Jared Leto (30 Seconds To Mars), and Johnny Depp (Hollywood Vampires).

Paul McCartney stopping by a Hollywood Vampires' recording session. Johnny Depp on the far left with Bob, Alice Cooper and Joe Perry on the right side

Bob is also familiar with mixing for live recording projects such as Taylor Swift’s Speak Now World Tour Live, The Alice Cooper Show, and Roger Daltrey’s A Celebration: The Music of Pete Townshend and The Who.

Donovan (far left) visits with Glen Buxton, Alice Cooper, and Bob, circa 1972

Bob’s latest collaboration with Alice Cooper, Detroit Stories, came out shortly after our conversation took place. This project represents a truly special aspect of Bob’s career – his long-running relationships with performers. He’s done over a dozen Alice Cooper albums, going back to 1971’s Love It To Death. His partnership with Kiss spans from 1976’s Destroyer to 2012’s Destroyer Resurrected. It also shows up in his work with Peter Gabriel (Gabriel’s 1977 solo debut and 2010’s Scratch My Back) and Pink Floyd (1979’s The Wall and 1994’s The Division Bells).

The guys behind Detroit Stories Courtesy Detroit Free Press

Notable too is Bob’s lengthy work associations with two revered rock guitarists: Dick Wagner and Steve Hunter. He met each guitarist on two of his earliest production jobs: Hunter was in the Mitch Ryder-fronted band Detroit while Wagner played in the short-lived group Ursa Major. Over the years, Bob tapped Dick and Steve for other many projects, most prominently were the times the two played guitar together in Alice Cooper’s and Lou Reed’s bands. Not surprisingly, Bob also produced solo albums for each guitarist.

Bob with Steve Hunter

In recent years, Bob has helmed two rather unique projects: working for the first time with a veteran group that hasn’t done a studio album in many years. In 2008, he produced Bauhaus’s Go Away White, their first studio album in 25 years. Then, in 2013, Bob did Now What!?!, the album Deep Purple made after an eight-year hiatus. Both projects were well received, and Bob went on to produce Deep Purple’s next two albums.

Bob produced Deep Purple's Now What?!

With his wealth of studio experience, Bob has developed some guiding principles regarding the producer’s role. One involves challenging the musicians to create something they are capable of creating, and he talks about how this “setting the bar” approach played a central role in his collaboration with Peter Gabriel on the former Genesis frontman’s first solo album.

 Peter Gabriel doing the recording of his first solo album. Photo by Larry Fast

Bob producing the legendary Canadian band Lighthouse in 2017

Outside of the recording studio, Bob has been involved in many significant multi-media endeavors. Early in the 1990s, he co-founded 7th Level, a pioneering computer software company that put out educational and entertainment CD-ROMs, including many highly successful Monty Python titles. At the end of the 90s, Bob co-founded the innovative internet radio provider Enigma Digital; Clear Channel later purchased the company and Bob served as vice-chairman of Clear Channel Interactive.

Bob being honored with a star for Canada's Walk of Fame. Photo by Michelle Siu/The Canadian Press

A Toronto native, Bob is a member of both the Canadian Music Hall of Fame and the Canadian Music Industry Hall of Fame along with having a star on Canada’s Walk of Fame. Deeply believing in the importance of community service, Bob started the charity organization Music Rising with U2's The Edge and he also is a board member of the Mr. Holland's Opus Foundation, two non-profits whose work involves providing children the opportunity to make music.

Bob with his Music Rising co-founder The Edge

Louise Goffin with Bob at a MusiCares tribute to Carole King

Please enjoy Part Two of our illuminating conversation with the amazing Bob Ezrin.

Season 2: Episode 4

Bob Ezrin

Episode 4 of Song Chronicles Season 2 presents the first of our two-part interview with the renowned producer Bob Ezrin.

Since the 1970s, Bob has been the producer of some of the biggest albums in rock history. Here are some of  the albums he did during his first decade as a producer: KISS’s record Destroyer, Lou Reed’s Berlin, Peter Gabriel’s solo debut, Pink Floyd’s landmark record The Wall, and seven hit albums with Alice Cooper. 

Bob with Alice Cooper circa 1975

A Toronto native, Bob launched his career at the age of 19 when he got a job with Jack Richardson, a top Canadian producer. In this episode, he reveals the funny circumstances involved with his first producer’s gig: Alice Cooper’s breakout record Love It To Death.

The important mentorship he received from Jack was a reason behind Bob starting the Nimbus School of Recording & Media, a school he co-founded with Jack’s son, Garth.

During our conversation, Bob touches on what he sees his job is as a producer, and why he feels it is vital “to keep the passion and wonder of youth for as long as you can.”

Bob in the studio with Phish's Page McConnell

Bob has produced albums for Deep Purple, Rod Stewart, Jane’s Addiction, The Deftones, The Catherine Wheel, Hanoi Rocks, The Jayhawks, Phish and more. 

Bob and Deep Purple's Roger Glover 

He also has made soundtrack albums, produced classical acts like 2CELLOS and the Canadian Tenors, and made opera superstar Andrea Bocelli’s first #1 album, Si.

Bob at work on Andrea Bocelli's album

In the 1990s, Bob helped start the computer software company 7th Level and the internet radio provider Enigma Digital. He co-produced the star-filled 2009 benefit The Clearwater Concert, which celebrated Pete Seeger’s 90th birthday and, more recently, was involved in the stage version of Berlin.

The stage adaptation of Lou Reed's Berlin

You will also hear some fascinating behind-the-scenes stories about the making of The Wall, including the studio technology that Bob introduced to Pink Floyd.

Bob welcomes Alice Cooper, Desmond Child and Louise to his studio. Photo by Kyler Clark

And this is just half of our entertaining interview with Bob Ezrin! You’ll hear more from him in the next edition of Song Chronicles.

But for now, enjoy the first of our two episodes with the one and only Bob Ezrin.  

Season 2: Episode 3

Jeff Trott

“When you make a record, it's like a snapshot of your life at that time.” Jeff Trott, the guest on this episode of Song Chronicles, certainly knows what he’s talking about when it comes to making records. The songwriter/producer/multi-instrumentalist has appeared on hundreds of albums since he started out playing guitar with the San Francisco-based alt-rock band Wire Train in the mid-80s.

 Wire Train (Left to Right)

Jeff Trott, Kevin Hunter, Anders Rundblad, Brian MacLeod 

Jeff is best known for his long-running work with Sheryl Crow, a collaboration that has earned him a Grammy and BMI’s Songwriter of the Year honors. They first met, in a true case of serendipity, in the early ‘90s. Starting with her second album, he has served as a co-writer, accompanist and producer for Crow straight through her latest full-length, Threads.

Jeff with Sheryl Crow's band, circa 1997

Jeff talks about his songwriting process with Crow – including how her contributions to his early version of “If It Makes You Happy” turned the tune into the Grammy-winning smash hit – as well as why he finds collaborating such as fascinating, mysterious thing to do.

Jeff performing with Sheryl Crow

Now Nashville-based after living most of his life on the west coast, Jeff possesses a lengthy and impressive resume featuring well-known acts that cut across the rock, country, blues, folk, and pop genres. Jeff was awarded Songwriter of the Year by BMI in 1998. Along with hits with Sheryl Crow, such as "If It Makes You Happy”, "Everyday is a Winding Road” ,“A Change”, "My Favorite Mistake” and “Soak Up The Sun”, he's written songs with Counting Crows, G. Love, Clare Dunn, O.A.R., Robert Randolph, and more. He's toured with Tears For Fears, Pete Droge and World Party and recorded with the likes of Aimee Mann, Stevie Nicks, Liz Phair, Wade Bowen and Rob Thomas, to name a few. 

During his days with World Party. Photo by Chris Whitten

As a producer, Jeff’s credits include working with Aaron Lee Tasjan, Fastball, Leighton Meester, Max Gomez, Martha Wainwright, and Pete Yorn. Probably his most prominent production work, outside of the Sheryl Crow albums, was doing Hootie and the Blowfish’s widely-acclaimed recent reunion record, Imperfect Circle. It’s a job he got rather unexpectedly, with a casual get-together with the band to talk songwriting leading to them asking Jeff to produce their album.

Assistant engineer Sean Badum, engineer Buckley Miller and Jeff during the Hootie & The Blowfish recording sessions

Jeff’s production work extends to film and TV too. He did the soundtrack for the Abigail Breslin film Janie Jones and co-produced a couple of Stevie Nicks tracks for the Practical Magic soundtrack. He even got a Daytime Emmy nomination for co-writing and co-producing with Crow the theme song for the Katie Couric talk show.

Despite his seemingly constant stream of work, Jeff did take the time out some years back to do a solo album, Dig Up The Astroturf, which he released on his own label. But even he used this project as a learning experience to discover all the things you need to know about making an album.

Photo by Kim Stringfellow

With his wealth and range of musical experiences, Jeff has accumulated all types of illuminating thoughts on what it takes to be a good collaborator, the tricky line you walk producing a band, and what has kept him enthusiastic about making music.

Photo by Steven Weinberg

Please enjoy listening to songwriter/musician/producer Jeff Trott on episode three of the second season of Song Chronicles.

Season 2: Episode 2

Robin Danar

“I work in the shadows.”

For over forty years, Robin has operated behind the scenes making performers sound great whether he is manning the board in the studio or handling the front-of-house sound in venues large and small around the world.

The New York City native started hanging out with college DJs in Albany when he was a university student and soon found himself friends with musicians who were going places, writing their own songs. He went to NYC and introduced himself at CBGB, offering to sub for their front of house mixers and after getting the opportunity to fill-in doing freelance for them, hit it off with owner Hilly Kristal, becoming their full-time staff sound man in the late '70s. He got to mix for some iconic bands during their early days. 

Robin working at CBGB

Robin also took a janitor job at RPM studios – a job that served as a way into learning engineering in a recording studio from mentors like engineer Jim Boyer (Billy Joel, Steve Winwood) and legendary producer Phil Ramone.

Some years later, the word on the street got out that he was known for his skills at getting a whole band, and particularly vocals, to sound great  — so you could hear all the emotion and lyrics. He went on tour to mix sound for the likes of Laurie Anderson, Suzanne Vega, Cyndi Lauper, The Church, The Blue Nile, The B-52's, and more.  

Robin's four-decade-plus career experience gave him a unique perspective where he is knowledgable in every stop along the way of an artist's career. Sometimes called to develop bands A&R wanted to sign, he also produced albums — even one of his own as artist-producer; he'd help performers focus their live performance; he understood how to tune a room, get the audience to enjoy a great mix no matter where they were seated or standing, the ins and outs of how to run a venue, the daily attitudes and devotion of a crew, how to keep performers feeling comfortable and at their best; and most of all, he's been the guy who knows what to do to make sure the artists and the audience can have fun at every gig.

At work at a show for The Church

“My goal is to make the performer be heard the way that they deserve to be heard so they can succeed.”

When he moved to Los Angeles, Robin collaborated with Nic Harcourt and the prominent NPR station KCRW, serving as a producer on the station’s “Sessions” series and "A Sounds Eclectic Evening" fundraisers, where six bands would perform on a revolving stage.

2008's Altered States, a unique producer-as-artist album featuring vocalists like Lisa Loeb, Rachael Yamagata, Pete Yorn, and the Blue Nile’s Paul Buchanan.

At McCabe's with assistant John Calacci 

Robin also mixes for shows he's passionate about, such as the revered McCabe’s Guitar Shop. For many years, he has been involved with the Wild Honey Foundation’s benefit concerts, where an all-star lineup of performers put on once-in-a-lifetime memorable tributes to a specific album by much loved bands like The Beatles, The Beach Boys, The Kinks, The Band, Big Star, and more. These shows raise money for autism research. Before COVID-19 venue lockdown, these shows were a yearly highlight for the Los Angeles community.

With singer Skylar Gudasz for a Wild Honey concert (Photo by Steve Appleford)

Since its opening in 2015, Robin has served as production manager at L.A.’s acclaimed Teragram Ballroom. After the pandemic hit, he started working with NIVA (National Independent Venue Association) and its Save Our Stages initiative, helping to compile a “bible” of production-focused protocol to help venues reopen safely and keep business flourishing. 

Jeff DelBello, Ken Blecher, and Robin at the Teragram Ballroom

Throughout his interview, his hard-earned advice from his experiences within a diverse range of jobs he's excelled at throughout his career is invaluable for those working — or wanting to work — in the music business. Whether it's the value of keeping an open mind for opportunities, the importance of making the artist comfortable for a show or during recording settings, or his thoughts on making and marketing music in the 2020s, Robin shares insights and a work ethic that helps to navigate the changing landscape of music and performance. 

Please enjoy an entertaining, informative conversation with Robin Danar on the second episode of season two of Song Chronicles.

To support Robin Danar's medical expenses, go to https://www.gofundme.com/f/robin-danar-cancer-treatment-fund

And for more information on the Wild Honey Foundation, visit https://www.facebook.com/WildHoneyEagleRock

And for Save Our Stages, go to https://www.saveourstages.com

Season 2: Episode 1

Linda Edell Howard

Song Chronicles launches its second season with a truly unique music insider conversation with Linda Edell Howard.

Linda during her high school cheerleading days

 Linda is an attorney in Nashville who has been an advocate for songwriters and artists over the last 30 years. Her expertise, and the focus of our interview, is in the often-complicated areas of copyrights, publishing, and royalties.

In her first-ever podcast interview, she generously gives listeners an enlightening music business primer that any aspiring, or even experienced songwriter, would learn from. Linda discusses the significance of sync, blanket, and mechanical licenses, sources for royalties, and how song credits work — and the ways all of these can bring the songwriter, a "small business owner", as she calls them, money. We talk about how performing rights organizations differ from publishing companies, and how both differ from SoundExchange.

    Linda Edell Howard with Charlie Daniels

     One of Howard's specialties is in the field of legacy copyrights, especially termination rights. Her mantra “forever doesn’t mean forever” takes us further to her explanation of how songwriters can use the not-well-known termination laws to recapture the rights to their songs. In her world, people and their circumstances are always changing, and so is the value of a copyright. What does this mean for a music business attorney? Changing circumstances open doors to renegotiation, because as is the case with so many deals songwriters make starting out, no one knew the actual value of their catalog at that time they signed their publishing away. There is a window of time, Howard tells us, where those copyrights can revert back to the songwriter.

        Linda with Desmond Child

  You’ll discover the importance of the numbers 56 and 35 for copyrights, and what black box money and gray box money are — and how they can be windfalls for songwriters. Throughout our conversation, she shares some great insights and valuable tips.

         Linda with her husband, Doug Howard

     Linda currently is a partner at the Nashville law firm Adams and Reese, where she leads its Entertainment and New Media team. She was one of the seven attorneys featured in Billboard’s Women in Music 2016 and among Nashville Business Journal’s 2019 Women in Music City Award honorees. Linda takes deep pride in how her work, as she puts it, “actually changes people’s lives.”

Billboard's Women in Music 2016

(Linda third from the right)

     As a teenager growing up in New Jersey, Linda aspired to be a rock photographer, hanging out at clubs along the Jersey Shore. She shifted her career goal from album cover design to law after realizing she could help musicians more as an attorney.

          Kelly Putty (Ordinary Hero Foundation), Hillary Scott (Lady A) with Linda

      After she graduating law school, Linda would spend her Sunday nights doing “contract clinics” for musicians at the Asbury Park’s legendary Stone Pony club, charging only a pizza slice and a beer. Her law career has included working for the Elvis Presley and George Gershwin estates and at PolyGram Music Publishing Group. More recently, her clients have included Fats Domino, Don Everly, Lady A, Desmond Child, Charlie Daniels, and Gretchen Wilson.

         Linda and Nashville Songwriters Hall of Famer Dickey Lee

We are delighted to present our first episode of Season 2, 

an enlightening conversation with Linda Edell Howard.

Episode 12

The McBroom Sisters

"Did you exchange a walk-on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?"

After spending years working on other people’s projects, the McBroom Sisters have just released their own album – and done so on their own terms.

In this episode, we talk with Durga and Lorelei McBroom. These incredible sisters are on the shortlist when some band needs a powerhouse guest vocalist, and they each boast star-studded resumes that any musician would envy.

                          Durga and Lorelei on stage with Steve Hackett

     Lorelei has done major tours with Pink Floyd, the Rolling Stones, and Rod Stewart, along with working with a diverse range of musicians, including Nile Rodgers, Mark Collie, Chris Isaak and (with her sister) Steve Hackett from Genesis. Her songs have been recorded by Sister Sledge and Earth, Wind & Fire’s Philip Bailey, and, for the past decade, Lorelei has been a featured vocalist for the acclaimed Australian Pink Floyd Show.

Lorelei singing with Rod Stewart

    Durga also has sung with Pink Floyd – both in the studio and on tour. Her techno rock duo Blue Pearl, with Killing Joke bassist Youth, scored a hit with “Naked In The Rain” and she collaborated with Billy Idol on his Cyberpunk album. Durga has performed with numerous Pink Floyd tribute groups, and now fronts the tribute band Pink Floyd Legacy.

Durga performing in the Pink Floyd Show UK

   In our conversation, the McBroom Sisters talk about how their busy careers resulted in their debut album taking seven years to finish and how the pandemic factored into completing it. The album’s title, Black Floyd, reflects their extensive connection with Pink Floyd’s music and also pays homage to the many black musicians who influenced rock ‘n roll.

   Besides putting their own stamp on several classic Floyd tunes, the sisters also showcase their own original material on Black Floyd, which includes co-writes with long-time Pink Floyd collaborators Jon Carin and Guy Pratt as well as Motörhead’s late frontman Lemmy Kilmister.

Louise with Lorelei and Durga

Our host and producer Louise is also one of the album’s guest performers, singing with them on “Wish You Were Here.”  Durga and Lorelei candidly discuss being black women in the rock world, the image of women in society, and how they have used their sexuality in empowering ways.

Please enjoy this insightful conversation with Durga and Lorelei McBroom on episode 12 of Song Chronicles.

Episode 11

Gloria Estefan

Part Two

Song Chronicles proudly presents its eleventh episode, the second of a two-part conversation with Gloria Estefan.

Gloria Estefan has lived a phenomenal life since arriving in America with her family from Cuba when she was two years old. As a teenager, she joined the Miami Sound Machine, where she also met her future husband Emilio. The group slowly built a following over the course of a decade, first finding success in Latin America before hitting it big internationally with “Conga” in 1985.

Whether with the Miami Sound Machine or solo, Gloria has been a regular on the charts, racking up hits with “Can’t Stay Away From You,” “The Rhythm is Going to Get You” and “Anything For You” in the ‘80s; "Coming Out Of The Dark," "Mi Tierra," and "Oye” in the ‘90s, and “Wrapped/Hoy,” “Out of Nowhere,” and “Hotel Nacional” in the 21st century. She has sold over 100 million records worldwide, ranking her among the top-selling artists around the globe. And that success continues with her recently released album, Brazil305, which debuted in the top 10 on Billboard’s Tropical Albums chart.

The many prestigious accolades that Gloria has received almost match the number of her hit songs. She was the first Cuban-American to receive the Kennedy Center Honors and the first female singer to be awarded Latin Recording Academy Person of the Year. Gloria and Emilio were the first couple and first Cuban-Americans to receive the Gershwin Prize as well as the first couple to get the Presidential Medal of Freedom. A cultural trailblazer and role model, Gloria also has been honored for her humanitarian and philanthropic work by organizations like MusiCares, Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute, National Music Foundation, and Billboard.

Gloria and Emilio receive the Medal of Freedom from President Obama

Alex Wong/Getty Images North America

Talking from her home in Miami Beach, Gloria shared some of her experiences during the pandemic. There were some things that she enjoyed — like doing interviews from home and being able to do her own hair and make-up (she also revealed that she’s known as the “eyebrow queen”) — and things that she disliked (such as not being able to easily get together with the rest of family, especially her 8-year-old grandson).

Gloria with her daughter Emily and niece Lili

She has kept busy during the pandemic not only working on the release of her new album, but also developing a Facebook Watch series, Red Table Talk: The Estefans that she is doing with her daughter Emily and niece Lili. One thing that she loves about doing this show is that it allows her to spend more time with her daughter.

Gloria performing with Emily

Emily Estefan is an up-and-coming singer-songwriter and Gloria talked about trying to coax her to release more of her music and not be so caught up in making recordings sound perfect. Her advice to her daughter — as well as any musician — is that making music is about “the free expression of emotion, a thought (and) an idea.”

We also had a candid discussion about the highly sexualized ways that young female performers are often presented nowadays. While believing that everyone should express themselves as they want to, she cautions to think twice about doing a lot of “booty shaking” because it can come back to haunt you. Gloria, who revealed that she always tries to “elevate” with her music, said that there’s “no need to do something outside of your comfort zone…(and) it would be a shame if you did it to get attention.”

Gloria performing in 1991

ABC Photo Archives via Getty Images

One thing that has kept Gloria balanced — during the pandemic as well as before — is something that happened to her 30 years ago. In 1990, Gloria was very badly injured in a tour bus accident. She was nearly paralyzed and had to learn to walk again. A lesson she took away from this experience was to take what happens in life with a grain of salt. “I’m happy that I can do anything,” she said. “It’s a joy!”

Please enjoy the second part of my conversation with Gloria Estefan.

Episode 10

Gloria Estefan

 Part 1

Song Chronicles is proud to present its tenth episode, part one of a two-part conversation with Gloria Estefan.

The Cuban-American singer achieved worldwide stardom in the mid-80s. Her long, successful career has been recognized with the Presidential Medal of Freedom, Kennedy Center Honors, the American Music Award for Lifetime Achievement, and induction into the Songwriters Hall of Fame. Additionally, her life and musical career with her husband Emilio serve as the basis for the Broadway musical On Your Feet!

I spoke with Gloria from her home in Miami Beach on August 19, the week after the release of her long-awaited album Brazil305. During our conversation for Song Chronicles, Gloria spoke on a wide range of topics, from her start in the music business to the art of songwriting and music that has influenced her.

She also speaks about the importance of family — throughout her life and during the pandemic — and a mother-and-daughter theme runs through the interview. This seems quite appropriate since I got to know Gloria in 2013 when she performed at the White House as part of the Gershwin Prize ceremony honoring my mother Carole King.

Gloria Estefan performs at the Gershwin Prize ceremony honoring Carole King

Photo by Pete Souza. Courtesy of The White House

Gloria came from a family that was full of musicians. Her mother was a born performer who actually won a Shirley Temple contest that included a trip to Hollywood. Gloria’s grandmother, whom she described as being very forward-thinking for her time, was ready to take Gloria’s mom to Hollywood; however, her grandfather forbade them from going.

Gloria's mother and grandmother

Gloria was two when her family arrived in America from Cuba. As a child, Gloria enjoyed singing but she was introverted and shied away from performing. Her grandmother, who was like a stage mother to her, urged Gloria to sing, telling her “you won’t be happy unless you do what you are meant to do.”

Gloria shares the funny story about the first time she met Emilio Estefan in 1975 when she was 17. His accordion was covering his shorts “so it looked like he was naked” but “he had great legs.” That summer, Gloria saw Emilio’s band, the Miami Latin Boys, play at a wedding. He asked her to sing; she did and got a standing ovation. He asked her to join his band but she said no. Eventually, though, she said yes, remembering what her grandmother had told her. Her mom, however, was quite upset over her joining the group, so Gloria got her cousin, Mercy, to join too.

That is Gloria on the right

Emilio loved the first song Gloria ever wrote, “Tu Amor Conmigo,” so much that it was put on the band’s first single. Since there were now girls in the Miami Latin Boys, they needed to change their name. Gloria says that she didn’t like the name Miami Sound Machine; her idea was simply Miami, but the new name served them well.

That first single was a big hit in Latin America, where they played to large crowds, but it wasn’t a hit in America, where they still played weddings. This taught her that fame “can go away as fast as it comes,” adding that “it was important that I had a good ten years before worldwide success exploded” because it allowed her to be more relaxed and honest on stage, which in turn made her a better live performer.

Gloria and Emilio on their wedding Day

Courtesy of Gloria and Emilio Estefan

Gloria married Emilio in 1980 on the day that she turned 21. She admits that they are “a rare combo.” She says that they are two different types who “empower each other” and are “strong-willed but not (with) big egos.” She also describes Emilio as "the biggest feminist that she knows" with "no qualms with women being in positions of power."

She admires his “uncanny ability to zero in on the one line or one part that I was having doubts” about in a song. This has strengthened her skills in crafting songs. Much of her songwriting is inspiration-based, with her “inspirations (coming) through me not from me.”

Emilio was the inspiration for “Un Amor Especial,” one of the songs that has remained important to Gloria over time. At the time she wrote this song about a life-long love, it was wishful thinking, but it turned out to be a wish that has come true.

Another tune that has stayed significant to Gloria is “Nayib's Song (I Am Here for You),” which she wrote for her son after the very severe 1990 tour bus accident that they were in. The song speaks of having faith to survive a tumultuous time — a message that still holds true for her today, particularly because her grandson is the same age now that her son was then.

Our conversation frequently turned to music that played a big role in Gloria’s life. Stevie Wonder’s Songs In The Key Of Life and Elton John’s Goodbye Yellow Brick Road were albums that she “wore out copies of (while) poring over every lyric.”

Stevie Wonder with Gloria

Gloria also explains her very olfactory memory for music, resulting in her associating certain songs with certain smells. So when she hears Seals & Crofts's “Summer Breeze,” she will smell freshly cut grass, or smell a laundromat when she hears Gerry and the Pacemakers’ “Ferry Across The Mersey.”

During the pandemic, Gloria has increased her music listening because “I need to feel more.” Her choices range from P!NK and Alanis Morrissette to Nat King Cole as well as Cuban greats, like Cachao and Celia Cruz, and the fabled Mexican songwriter Agustín Lara.

Gloria sings on stage with Celia Cruz

She credits her broad musical tastes to growing up on her mother’s eclectic record collection listening to the such musical greats from Latin America, Cuba and the United States, such as Carmen Miranda, Sérgio Mendes & Brasil '66, Jobim and Johnny Mathis. She mentions how “I was over the moon to do a duet (“Mary's Boy Child”) with Johnny Mathis.”

Her mother’s record collection also held a lot of Brazilian music, which influenced Gloria throughout her career. The first Miami Sound Machine album included a cover of the Antonio Carlos & Jocafi song “Malvina” and the 1983 MSM album, Rio, featured new lyrics to popular Brazilian songs. The title of her new album, Brazil305, is a nod to Sergio Mendes’s band with 305 representing Miami’s area code. The new album also led Gloria to make a documentary exploring Brazilian and Afro-Cuban music that should come out in 2021.

Brazil305, which contains older songs of hers redone in various Brazilian musical styles, is also a very personal effort for Gloria. In our conversation, she talks about how, back in 2016, she played the demos for her mother, who loved them. However, her mom died soon afterward following a brief illness. When Gloria went to finish the album, she wasn’t able to sing the songs because the music was too connected to her mom.

Gloria waited over a year to return to the studio, but it was worth the time because she was able to sing the songs with the joy that they were intended to have. The album’s release, however, was delayed then by the COVID pandemic along with the George Floyd shooting. Gloria, however, feels that now is the right time for the album to come out because the “message of music is we are one.” She says she feels honored to have the opportunity to put music out into the universe that is healing and soothing.

Please enjoy the first episode of my conversation with Gloria Estefan.

Episode 9

Al Schmitt Part 2

Song Chronicles is proud to present the second of a two-part interview with Al Schmitt. This episode, done via Zoom on August 7, took place three days after the first interview after Al emailed to say that he had some additional stories and memories he wanted to share. It’s a testament to his generosity and work ethic that Al would take the time to follow-up because he wanted to make this interview even more special even after a great first interview – which is a fascinating conversation on its own.

Al Schmitt has spent his 70-some year career making things better. The universally revered engineer and producer has received awards with the most notable all-time Grammy winners – and the top among engineers - as well as receiving the honored prestigious Grammy Trustee Award.

Al Schmitt with Tommy LiPuma and Paul McCartney

Al’s unrivaled resume crosses generations and genre lines. The 90-year-old master of the soundboard has worked with a seemingly endless list of musical superstars: from Miles Davis to Madonna, Quincy Jones to Nina Simone, Dolly Parton to Brian Wilson, Elvis Presley to Bob Dylan, Liza Minnelli to Luis Miguel, Kenny Rogers to Kenny G., Linda Ronstadt to Rod Stewart.

Al with Ray Charles

In this episode, Al shares some of his favorite moments from his illustrious career – like the time in the early ‘60s when he hung out in a hotel suite with Sam Cooke and Cassius Clay (just weeks before took the name Muhammad Ali). Cooke was helping out Clay, who just had gotten a record deal, and Al recalls how funny and irreverent to two men were - “I never laughed so hard in my life.”

Al had a long-running working partnership with Henry Mancini, which started with the Peter Gunn record and resulted in Al’s first Grammy for the Hatari! soundtrack. The acclaimed composer, Al reveals, had a great sense of humor as well as a great way to endear himself with session musicians – here’s a hint: it involves how doing one song past 11 pm made the musicians very happy.

Al at work at Capitol Studios

When Al was a kid, he used to play hooky from school to go see Frank Sinatra sing at the Paramount Theatre. And Sinatra was one artist that he had long to work with but never had – until producer Phil Ramone called him to engineer Sinatra’s Duets album. It was a job, Al says, he would have done for nothing. He talks about how the studio was set up for Sinatra and how the singer wanted to do this “this way” in the studio as well as what a thrill it was just to be part of Sinatra’s dinner party for three nights.

His Sinatra stories also involves the fabled U47 microphone, a subject close to Al’s heart because he is a self-described “microphone freak.” During this episode, Al discusses how much he enjoys mic-ing a room and trying them out in different placements, moving the band around the room. He fondly remembers his time at RCA where he would experiment in the studio every day and discover the ambience and best recording spots in the room. Al also describes his process of working with an artist to make for the most rewarding and productive recording session.

Diana Krall with Al Schmitt

During my conversation with Al, he speaks too about how he developed such a strong work ethic as well as his various interests outside of the studio. Additionally, he shares how he has continued working during the COVID pandemic, having recently wrapped up engineering jobs on upcoming releases by Diana Krall and Melody Gardot.

Episode 8

Al Schmitt Part 1

Song Chronicles is proud to present the first of a two-part interview with Al Schmitt. These episodes offer a unique behind-the-scenes look - from a master of his craft –  on what happens on the other side of the glass when musicians go into a recording studio.

Al Schmitt is the definition of a living legend. During his unparalleled career, the 90-year-old engineer/producer has worked with an incredible list of musical giants: Frank Sinatra, Duke Ellington, Sam Cooke, Barbra Streisand, Henry Mancini, Ray Charles, Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, Willie Nelson, Neil Young, Steely Dan, Celine Dion, Queen Latifah, and more are names that only scratch the surface of a  career of the highest excellence: his knowledge and work ethic makes the greatest of greats want him at the helm. The arc spans far and wide with Frank Sinatra to Bob Dylan singing Sinatra, as well as Nat King Cole & Natalie Cole’s “Unforgettable”.

Al Schmitt with Niko Bolas

Now in his seventh decade at the board, Al has hardly slowed down. He has just finished mixing a new album from Diana Krall, with whom he already has earned three Grammys. In fact, Al has won more Grammys – 20 – than any other engineer and ranks among the top 15 of all-time Grammy winners.

During Neil Young sessions at Capitol

(Neil Young and Niko Bolas pictured) 

I met Al when he came to speak to the members of the Blackbird Academy’s audio engineering program that I enrolled myself in last year in Nashville. He came in with his good friend, and fellow producer/engineer, Niko Bolas, who I've been fortunate to know since I was 18, when I was recording at Record One in Sherman Oaks (a studio once owned by Allen Sides as part of Ocean Way), where Niko was working alongside producer/engineer, Val Garay. 

I spoke with Al recently, August 4, 2020, during the quarantine. We spoke via video on Zoom, talking about his illustrious career, innovative recording techniques, and the musicians who he’s worked with.

Al Schmitt and Steve Genewick

Al developed his love for the studio very early in his life. As a child, the New York City native hung out at the recording studio owned by his uncle, Harry Smith. Not the folklorist Harry Smith but the Harry Smith (née Schmitt) who ran the first independent recording studio on the east coast. He was starry-eyed with his uncle’s work and life. Les Paul was his “Uncle Les,” who took young Al to hockey games, boxing matches, and bar.

Smith instilled in Al some valuable lessons about studio work, such as: “You’ve got to treat your equipment like a Swiss watch and it’ll take care of you”. Al says that’s why you’ll never see him putting coffee and stuff like that on his console.

His uncle also lined up an apprenticeship for him, then 19 and just out of the Navy, at Apex Recording Studios, where he received tutelage from another of his mentors, the fabled engineer/producer Tom Dowd, who Al describes as “one of the great engineers of all time.”

It was at Apex too that Al ran, quite by accident, his first recording session for none other than Duke Ellington – and a very kind Duke, who told the novice engineer: “Don’t worry son, we’re gonna get through this. It’s gonna be fine.”

Al has become known for his clean, unembellished sound, which he developed early on when he only had a few microphones to work with. This taught him the importance of mic placement to get the sound right for a take, particularly because there wasn’t the technology yet to go back and fix a take.

“I've always been an experimenter with microphones and how to set up things,” he reveals. “I set up a big band one day and the next day I'd set them up exactly the opposite and I'd move them around the room until I got the best place.”

Al Schmitt & Niko Bolas with John McBride, visiting the students in Mark Rubel's class at The Blackbird Academy 

(we all wore ties in their honor) 

After close to a decade in New York (where he also worked at Atlantic Records and Fulton Recordings) in 1958, Al moved to Los Angeles. He was an engineer first at the highly popular Radio Recorders studio before moving over to RCA in 1963.

A few years later, Al convinced RCA to promote him to a producer, but there was one downside of a dream job: because of union rules, he could no longer work the board. “I could reach over and do something like on the echo or whatever, and (then they would) call me up on the carpet for touching the board.”

It was also time-consuming. “Eddie (Fisher) would be 2-5 (pm) and then Jefferson Airplane would be 8 ‘til 3, 4 in the morning. And by the time I got home, I'd get a little sleep. And, I'd have to come back to work because I had 11 artists that I was taking care of. So I had to do budgets. I had to hire arrangers for artists.” He quit this RCA job, but the Jefferson Airplane hired him back as their producer, persuading him to finish the album because they loved his work so much.

Al went on to produce several more albums for the band and for others; however, by the early 70s, he realized how much he missed engineering. So while he has continued to be a producer (on albums for Neil Young, Jackson Browne, Al Jarreau, George Benson, to name a few), the bulk of Al’s massive, and impressive, body of work has been doing what he loves best – being an engineer.

Not only has Al achieved great success in his prolific career – he has worked on over 150 gold and platinum albums – but he has achieved in an amazing range of genres: jazz, rock, pop, country, soundtracks, holiday music, Latin, rap, and blues.

Capitol Recording Studios, Al's second home 

Episode 7

Peter Case Part 2

Peter in Venice, California with his dog Mattie

April 8, 2019

photo by Louise Goffin

"I write to know what I think" - Peter Case

In the follow-up to Episode 6, which was Part One of this interview, the conversation continues that took place on April 8th, 2019. To bring us up-to-date, Louise makes a Zoom call to Peter in August 2020 to find out how his music, recording and touring plans have changed, in response to the pandemic. 

When asked on the spot to give his shortlist of perfect songs, here's what he said: Bob Dylan -Desolation Row The Beatles- Penny Lane (Lennon-McCartney) Hoagy Carmichael - Stardust (Hoagy Carmicheal-Mitchell Parish) The Drifters - Up On The Roof (Goffin&King) Otis Redding - A Change Is Gonna Come  ( Everton Bonner / John Christopher Taylor / Sam Cooke)

If you haven't listened to Part One, you can listen at the link below: 

https://www.songchroniclespodcast.com/e/episode-6-peter-case-part-1/

Episode 6

Peter Case Part I

Song Chronicles is proud to present the first of a two-part interview with Peter Case.

For Peter, music is an economy of energy, a spiritual economy. His career stretches out over half a century and is still going strong. Through the experiences he's had, the different band line-ups, the travels, the epiphanies, the inspiring companions, he pours vibrancy into each new musical chapter.

Case, a native of Buffalo, New York, dropped out of high school when he was fifteen and traveled before replanting himself in San Francisco in 1973. You can see a young Peter in action during this period, in the documentary Nightshift, directed by Bert Deivert, where the director and subject wandered the streets looking for places to play, cash to earn, and food to eat while meeting with people anywhere on street corners and filming. 

In 1976, he teamed up with two other bandmates, Jack Lee and Paul Collins, to form The Nerves in San Francisco. (Jack was the sole writer of The Nerves song "Hanging On The Telephone" which was later recorded by Blondie). The band moved to Los Angeles and performed in many of LA's punk-era venues, and soon they went on a national tour opening for The Ramones and Mink Deville. They broke up in 1978.

photo by Greg Allen

The Nerves

One Way Ticket - 1977

In 1979, Peter formed The Plimsouls, which, after the release of their debut EP Zero Hour, started building a significant live following in California. They had record deals with two major record labels (Planet/Elektra in 1981 and Geffen Records in 1983). In 1982, "A Million Miles Away" was released as a 12" single and the song was a radio hit in California and in some other regions of the U.S.

 The Plimsouls

Live! Beg, Borrow & Steal  (1981)

The Plimsouls - Beach Town Confidential - 1983

"The gimmick of the band was to have high standards", says Case.

The Plimsouls lasted until January 1st, 1985 and, in this interview, Peter charts the course of the musical changes he made after the band broke up, how songs, stories and words made playing solo appealing to him, despite having to carve out a new audience after losing half of The Plimsouls fans.

 "I love The Plimsouls, but my life took off in another way. [Playing solo] enabled me to put together a lot of things that I loved...to get away from that strict environment of the four-piece rock and roll band".

Throughout his life, he'd seen performers that made deep impressions on him, such as  Lightnin' Hopkins, Simon and Garfunkel (with one guitar in 1967), Arlo Guthrie, James Taylor, John Hammond Jr., Dave Van Ronk, Pete Seeger, an under-the-radar folk singer and actor, Cedric Smith (Perth County Conspiracy), Fred Neil, Memphis Slim, Mississippi John Hurt, and more.  

Like musicians before him, Case would at times have a band ready in different towns but once he realized that what he could do solo was more unique, less turned into more: more range in the story-telling of the songs, more potency in the groove, and it worked.

Traveling light is the way to go if you're an independent musician.

Even traveling light, Peter grooves heavy.  

The Man With The Blue Post-Modern, Fragmented, Neo-Traditionalist Guitar

1989

He made a self-titled solo album, Peter Case, released in 1986, on Geffen Records, produced by both T-Bone Burnett and Mitchell Froom. One of the songs on it, "Old Blue Car," was nominated for a Grammy Award. Robert Palmer of The New York Times chose the album as the No. 1 release for 1986 in his year-in-review wrap-up. The album had contributions from Mike Campbell (of Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers), John Hiatt, Jim Kelter, Jerry Marotta, Roger McGuinn (of The Byrds), Richard Thompson, Van Dyke Parks and included songs co-written with Victoria Williams (Peter's first wife) and T-Bone Burnett. 

1986

Peter describes having record deals:  "When you're on those labels, you know, as you well know, you get that, you get that feeling of wind in your sails. That even on a failure, you're, you know, you're doing a lap. There's a certain amount of momentum that happens on those things that's not anywhere anymore". 

Torn Again 1995

In 2015, Peter released HWY 62 on Omnivore, an album filled with songs and stories, the blues, and heartfelt singing. That spiritual economy of heart and soul, with the wisdom of his years, makes Peter one of America's treasured songwriters and performers. In this interview, he tells us of the journey he took to get here. If you're a songwriter, when you listen, you'll want to take notes. 

Peter Case - Hwy 62 

2015

Lost Songs & Outside Favorites

2016

The songs used in this episode were used by permission.

They are found on the album titled, "Hwy 62".

For more info go to Petercase.com

Episode 5.

Gail Ann Dorsey

Song Chronicles is proud to present its fifth episode, a conversation with singer-songwriter, bass player extraordinaire, and dear friend Gail Ann Dorsey. 

"I think... since I was a little kid... I wanted to get out of Philadelphia. I wanted to see the world. I wanted to do these things. Honestly, the odds were not in my favor, from my background, of me achieving what I've achieved, regardless of... talent and things. But. I think I've always [had] a good daydreaming, uh, imagination thing, you know, a law of attraction thing. You think you see it, you see it, you see it, and then... it comes."

 I first met Gail in the early '90s in London. I reached out to her to see if she wanted to write some songs and perhaps start a duo project. The band name was going to be South of Venus. She came over and we started a song called "Femme Fatale" and then ended up demoing some other songs together in the English countryside (with recording engineer Andrew Jackson, who I'd met recording at Astoria Studio, David Gilmour's houseboat on the Thames). We were hoping to write more songs and play some gigs when she got a call from Bryan Ferry. He wanted her to go on a European promotional tour for television. I was happy for her and thought our plans would simply be delayed; but soon after, Roland Orzabal, who I'd occasionally see in the coffee shop around the corner from me, wanted her to play with Tears For Fears, so it looked like our duo plans had bitten the dust. The next thing I knew, she'd put my name in the hat to play guitar on the Bryan Ferry TV tour and I got the gig. This was the beginning of a long and cherished friendship.

Happy times with David Bowie

Louise & Gail recording for "South of Venus" in London

While traveling in Europe, we had dinner with filmmaker Pedro Almodovar and actors Rossy de Palma and Beverly D'Angelo in Madrid and went to Copenhagen, Paris, and other major cities. We made a dark Berlinesque video for Bryan of his cover of "I Put A Spell On You" and then back in London, I focused on songwriting and played some shows with an expanded line up and called it South of Venus. My hair was short then anyway, but then I dyed it blonde for a minute. Somewhere in that period of time Gail and I were called into the studio to sing backgrounds together on a Gang of Four album called Mall. I was already friends with Andy Gill. He was a beloved friend and he loved to cook and also knew all the best East End markets and wine bars. He produced some songs for me too that were never released. That was a snapshot in time, of changing busy lives going off into different directions. I was in London only another eighteen months before getting a gig opening for Swing Out Sister and decided at the end of it to stay in LA, ending my ten-year chapter as a Londoner and eventually ending up back on Lookout Mountain in Laurel Canyon. Gail, meanwhile, had done two tours with Tears For Fears, played on their records, and Roland Orzabal was mentoring her on her own solo record when she got the call from David Bowie. 

Over the years, we'd find time to meet up in LA, Woodstock & Nashville, and always we'd get right back into our groove. Gail was always fascinated with Hollywood and filmmaking, and in fact, had won a scholarship to Cal Arts and had attended film school well before her career as a signed recording artist (first for CBS and then Island) and her star side-woman singer-bassist-performer extraordinaire status with icons — none more famous than David Bowie, with whom she shared a lengthy residency from 1995 to Bowie's death in 2016.

with David Bowie

 Gail sang lead vocals on live versions of "Under Pressure" and dueted with Bowie on other songs, including "The London Boys," "Aladdin Sane," "I Dig Everything," and a cover of Laurie Anderson's "O Superman."

Behind the Scenes at the video shoot for Bryan Ferry's "I Put A Spell On You": Gail Ann Dorsey, Rossy de Palma and Louise Goffin 

Episode 4.

Kathy Valentine

Song Chronicles is proud to present its fourth episode, a conversation with American musician, songwriter and author Kathy Valentine.

Kathy was a member of the first, and to date, only all-female band that wrote their own songs and played their own instruments to top Billboard charts at #1, having one of the most successful debuts of all time. The Go-Gos sold over 7 million records. When they went on tour opening for The Police, they soon rose up the charts surpassing the headliner, with Sting breaking open a bottle of champagne for them to celebrate. 

The Go-Gos

To be in a band of young women frought with both tension and love, who stuck together through the rigors of the road and high profile promotion, defying stereotypes, brought intense challenges. The only way its band members could survive to lead healthy and successful lives was to leave behind the band that had brought them together. 

 Kathy’s memoir, titled All I Ever Wanted, is an inspiring and honestly told story. She’s found her way to discover her own voice as both a writer of prose and a lead vocalist, playing multi-instruments on her own songs, which she’s used to create a soundtrack to her book.

The music stands on its own as a body of work. It’s a great soundtrack!

 She tells her story without the affectations of someone trying to sound “writerly.”  

Kathy and I knew one another throughout the years at a distance but became friends when we both found ourselves expecting within months of one another. We both have 17-year-olds so we’ve known each other a while and she’s awesome.  

I'm honored to be able to present to you the first Song Chronicles stay-at-home interview ever...

 with the bad-ass, magnificent Kathy Valentine.

Episode 3.

J.D. Souther

Song Chronicles is proud to present its third episode, a conversation with songwriter J.D. Souther.

Inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame in 2013, Grammy-nominated Souther has penned countless hits for The Eagles, Linda Ronstadt, Roy Orbison, James Taylor, Don Henley, George Strait, Trisha Yearwood, and Brooks and Dunn, and found success as solo artist. J.D.’s latest album Tenderness, produced by Larry Klein, connects “LA’s ‘70s golden age with the Great American Songbook,” writes Uncut, with songs that sound “like standards themselves.” 

J.D. Souther and Linda Ronstadt

J.D. Souther and Jackson Browne

Louise first met J.D. when she was a teenager living with her mom, spending a summer in Malibu. Two years later, Louise made her debut album Kid Blue, produced by Danny Kortchmar, at the iconic Sunset Sound Factory at the peak of the California singer-songwriter multi-platinum-selling era. J.D. Souther, Don Henley and Stevie Nicks sang background vocals!

In this conversation that took place July 13, 2019 at John David’s ranch in Nashville, TN, J.D. talks about his early inspiration for his classic songs; his musical upbringing; his latest album, Tenderness; and what it’s like to tour as a solo performer. The conversation feels more like reminiscing between friends than an interview, with wonderful personal stories of many '70s golden era heavyweights: Linda Ronstadt, Glenn Frey, Don Henley, Joni Mitchell, Jackson Browne, James Taylor, Carole King, Bob Dylan, Joe Walsh, Emmy Lou Harris, Bonnie Raitt, Peter Asher, Waddy Wachtel, Warren Zevon, Don Grolnick, David Sanborn, and more. 

early days with Glenn Frey

A passionate animal lover and advocate, J.D. is also involved with Best Friends Animal Society.

with Joe Walsh - photo by Barry Shultz

His classic albums John David Souther, Black Rose, and Home by Dawn have been released as expanded reissues (Omnivore Recordings). As an actor, he has appeared in the TV shows Thirtysomething and Nashville, among others.

 *Song Chronicles is a brand new podcast series hosted by Louise Goffin. The complete 32 episodes of The Great Song Adventure podcast hosted by Louise Goffin & Paul Zollo can be found on thegreatsongadventure.com.

Episode 2.

Desmond Child

It is with great pleasure that Song Chronicles presents Grammy-Winning Producer, Recording Artist and Songwriter Desmond Child.

*Song Chronicles is a brand new podcast series hosted by Louise Goffin. The complete 32 episodes of The Great Song Adventure podcast hosted by Louise Goffin & Paul Zollo can be found on thegreatsongadventure.com.

Desmond Child, the son of Hungarian father Joseph Marfy and of Cuban songwriter Elena Casals, is a highly driven genre-defying songwriter and producer, who can easily be introduced to those not in-the-know as a "hitmaker to the stars". His credits appear on more than eighty Billboard Top 40 singles spanning five decades, including “Livin’ On A Prayer,” “You Give Love A Bad Name,” “I Was Made For Lovin’ You,” “Dude Looks Like A Lady,” “Livin’ La Vida Loca,” “Waking Up In Vegas.” and many more.

February of 2020, Nashville TN, in a Charlotte Avenue storefront building filled with instruments and books, Desmond sat down with Louise Goffin and talked about some of the songs he's been a part of writing, artists he's collaborated with, and how real-life circumstances inspired some of the songs that became part of the zeitgeist of popular culture. In this engaging conversation, Child reveals his great love of his family, his passion for working towards a better future for songwriters and not least, leading the way forward toward a more open-minded world for his two sons. Desmond has no shortage of gratitude for his creative and varied life, partnered alongside his loving husband ("people like me because they like him!") and it's easy to see how his spontaneity and truthful read of those around him gifts him with a knack for drawing out the archetypal themes wanting to be written in the room, collaborating with artists who are searching to find something they truly want to sing about. 

A graduate of New York University, once upon a time, Child and Maria Vidal, along with Myriam Valle and Diana Grasselli, formed Desmond Child & Rouge, recording two albums for Capitol. Next moves led him to collaborate with Paul Stanley of KISS and create two of the band's most enduring hits: “I Was Made for Lovin’ You” and “Heaven’s On Fire.” A winning streak had begun.

From Aerosmith to Zedd, his songs have been recorded and performed by a wide variety of both entertainers and collaborators, defying genre limits, with superstars as diverse as Bon Jovi, KISS, Cher, Joan Jett, Alice Cooper, Barbra Streisand, Michael Bolton, Ricky Martin, Katy Perry, Kelly Clarkson, Carrie Underwood, Garth Brooks, Meat Loaf, Cyndi Lauper, Christina Aguilera, Sia, Mickey Mouse and Kermit the Frog.

with Joan Jett

Songwriters Hall of Fame

"Desmond is a slave-driving slut" - Alice Cooper

with husband Curtis Shaw

left to right: Jon Bon Jovi (born John Francis Bongiovi Jr.), Cher, Desmond Child, Steven Tyler  

 "Lady Liberty"

performed by

Barbra Streisand

Steven Tyler (Aerosmith)

Bob Ezrin's Studio, Nashville TN

Desmond Child and Louise Goffin (reflection of Alice Cooper in glasses)

photo by Kyler Clark

photo by Kyler Clark 

 Episode 1.

SAM HOLLANDER

Song Chronicles is proud to present its first episode with songwriter-producer, Sam Hollander.

*Song Chronicles is a brand new podcast series hosted by Louise Goffin. The complete 32 episodes of The Great Song Adventure podcast hosted by Louise Goffin & Paul Zollo can be found on thegreatsongadventure.com.

Sam Hollander has a career that any aspiring songwriter or producer would envy and happily step in the shoes of for even a day. He's written and/or produced over 20 US Top 40 Pop Hits and had numerous worldwide top-charting songs including Panic! at the Disco's worldwide #1 "High Hopes". Visiting the YouTube channels of the bands and artists he's worked with, one quickly sees that his songs have been streamed by not just millions, but by billions. In 2019 he held the #1 position on the Billboard Rock Songwriters chart for nine weeks, a year-end record.

In September of 2019, in a relaxed and intimate conversational setting, Sam sat down to talk with Louise Goffin about his life before and after his success and revealed an inspiring story of perseverance and likable-guy determination. Listen and find out more!

Once an academically-challenged teenager who couldn't understand what he'd read, and who felt like a misfit in school, Sam Hollander spent his his youth trying to find a way to engage with the world with his love of music, surrounded by a family of high-achieving creative parents. His story is an inspiration for the many kids in schools who are mischaracterized as "failing" when they simply find it hard to engage in school systems or are unable to demonstrate their gifts through standardized testing. Sam was determined to either work with the artists who would be chart-toppers or to create them himself by developing and helping unknown talent, writing their hit songs. His genuine love of music and the music business, along with his talent for production and rhymes, eventually led to a transformation of his situation as he began writing and producing worldwide hits for the likes of Fitz and The Tantrums, Panic! at the Disco, One Direction, Carole King, Ringo Starr, Sugar Ray, Gym Class Heroes, Tom Jones, Chiddy Bang, Weezer, We The Kings, Sugar Ray and more.

Louise Goffin & Sam Hollander 

September 2019  Hollywood, California  

"High Hopes" from the Panic! at the Disco video

 Fitz and The Tantrums 

Weezer

"CheckYes Juliet" 

Carole King "Love Makes The World"

                     .                  

Panic! at the Disco "Hey Look Ma, I Made It" 

#1 US ROCK SONGS, #3 US HOT AC, #5 US ALTERNATIVE, #6 US TOP 40. RIAA certified PLATINUM, 2019 TEEN CHOICE AWARDS ROCK SONG OF THE YEAR.