Join Susan B. Neuman, professor of early childhood and literacy education at the Steinhardt School at New York University, in our Deconstructing the Rope series. She explains the important link between background knowledge and reading comprehension in the Science of Reading, and shares her five research-based principles to build knowledge networks in literacy instruction. She also highlights the connection between speech and reading, and previews her upcoming studies on the role of cross-media connections in children’s learning.Show notes: 

• Book: Changing the Odds for Children at Risk, by Susan B. Neuman. (More books in the link.)
• Article: “Developing Low-Income Children's Vocabulary and Content Knowledge through a Shared Book Reading Program” by Susan B. Neuman and Tanya Kaefer
• Article: “The Information Book Flood: Is Additional Exposure Enough to Support Early Literacy Development?" by Susan B, Neuman

Quotes: “What you’re helping children do is create a mosaic, putting all those ideas together in a knowledge network. If you don’t do it explicitly, many children cannot do it on their own.” —Susan B. Neuman

“We’ve got to start early. We’ve got to start immediately, and know that children are eager to learn and use the content to engage them.” —Susan B. Neuman

Catherine Snow, Ph.D., Professor of Cognition and Education at the Harvard Graduate School of Education, joins Susan Lambert on this episode to reflect on the state of language and literacy instruction in the U.S. They begin their conversation by discussing linguistics in young children and the relationship between language and literacy, before diving into Dr. Snow’s biggest takeaways from her work on the National Research Council report, “Preventing Reading Difficulties in Young Children." Susan and Dr. Snow talk about building vocabulary, growing student curiosity in reading, and exposing students to academic language. Dr. Snow talks about the specific tools educators should be given for meaningful help in the classroom, shares her hopes—and fears—for the future of reading instruction in this country, and explains why she encourages teachers to let their classrooms be noisier.Show notes:

• Read: National Research Council Report: Preventing Reading Difficulties in Young Children
• Read: Reading for Understanding: Toward an R&D Program in Reading Comprehension

Quotes:“Part of preventing reading difficulties means focusing on programs to ensure that all children have access to books from birth and that they have access to adults who will read those books with them and discuss them.” —Catherine Snow, Ph.D.

“I see academic language and exposure to academic language as an expansion of children's language skills that both contributes to successful literacy—successful reading comprehension—and gets built through encounters with texts, but also encounters with oral activities.” —Catherine Snow, Ph.D.“Let your classroom be noisier. Let the kids be more engaged and more socially engaged, because that is actually a contribution to their language development and to their motivation to keep working.” —Catherine Snow, Ph.D.Episode timestamps*2:00 Introduction: Who is Catherine Snow?3:00 Linguistics in young children6:00 What is language? 8:00 Language and its impact on literacy14:00 National Research Council Report: Preventing Reading Difficulties in Young Children22:00 Building vocabulary and a love for reading26:00 Academic language28:00 “Science of Reading” movement and the reading wars33:00 Scientific research in the hands of educators in the field36:00 Tools teachers need in their toolbox38:00 Hopes and fears for the future of the “Science of Reading movement”41:00 Final advice*Timestamps are approximate, rounded to nearest minute

Greg Ashman—author of multiple books including A Little Guide for Teachers: Cognitive Load Theory, deputy principal, and professor—sits down with Susan Lambert on this episode to discuss cognitive load theory and how it applies to how students learn and how to best teach them. Together their conversation covers cognitive load theory, including an exploration of working memory and long-term memory; intrinsic load and extraneous load; biologically primary vs. biologically secondary knowledge; and how to apply these concepts in the classroom. Ashman also provides listeners with helpful advice on ensuring their teaching practices are based on evidence. Show notes:

• Book:  “A Little Guide for Teachers: Cognitive Load Theory” by Greg Ashman
• Read: Greg Ahsman’s “Quick Insight Series”
• Subscribe: Greg Ashman’s Substack “Filling The Pail”
• Read: Barak Rosenshine’s “Principles of Instruction”

Quotes:“I now know I shouldn't have felt guilty, but I also know that I could have taught that from the outset in a much more structured way where the students would have left understanding the concepts better without wasting time.” —Greg Ashman“This idea that kids don't need to know anything anymore, they just need to practice skills is really quite a pernicious and damaging idea.” —Greg Ashman“Think about the teaching methods that you're being presented with. Ask about the evidence and question whether this is really the optimal way of teaching literacy or whatever it is, or whether it's more based on wishful thinking.” —Greg AshmanEpisode timestamps*2:00 Introduction: Who is Dr. Gregg Ashman5:00 Feeling guilty about the way you had been teaching7:00 Book talk: A Little Guide for Teachers on Cognitive Load Theory8:00 Defining cognition11:00 Working memory and long-term memory13:00 Retrieval of long-term memory15:00 What is cognitive load?19:00 Working memory holds 4 items: What is an item?24:00 Automaticity26:00 Biologically primary vs biologically secondary knowledge31:00 Mythbusting: “Long-term memory is like a computer system”34:00 How can educators use cognitive load theory?38:00 Explicit teaching 42:00 Productive struggle and productive failure49:00 Final advice*Timestamps are approximate, rounded to nearest minute

Dr. Sharon Vaughn, award-winning researcher and multi-published author, who has advised on literacy across 30 states and 10 different countries, joins Susan Lambert on this episode. She digs into how we can build reading comprehension rather than teach it, and what it means for comprehension to be a learning outcome rather than a skill. She and Susan touch on how to ask the right comprehension questions, how to ensure coherency in teaching background knowledge, and where it's easy to go wrong—with knowledge building and with the Science of Reading as a whole. Listeners will walk away with a deeper understanding of which skills lead to comprehension and how to avoid strategy overload.Show notes: 

• What Works Clearinghouse: Providing Reading Interventions for Students in Grades 4—9
• Website: meadowscenter.org 

Quotes: “Comprehension is an outcome, and it's based on being able to read words accurately, know what they mean, have adequate background knowledge, and also being able to make inferences.” —Sharon Vaughn, Ph.D.“I've seen things go awry. Good things get interpreted incorrectly. The Science of Reading has that potential … where people could take that and sort of start creating their own meaning about what it means and start downloading that in districts and schools in ways that are counterproductive.” —Sharon Vaughn, Ph.D.“If you look at the early studies from the late ‘80s and early ‘90s, they really were the building blocks for phonemic awareness and phonics and the way in which we have identified the foundation skills as being essential. We act like the Science of Reading is something new, and we've been building this for decades.” —Sharon Vaughn, Ph.D.

Episode timestamps*02:00: What Works Clearinghouse Practice Guide04:00: Reading Comprehension: What it is and what it isn’t09:00: How could we mess up background knowledge?13:00: The relationship between vocabulary and knowledge building21:00: Word knowledge and world knowledge, especially in the upper grades24:00: Strategy of asking and answering questions26:00: Text matters27:00: Integrating stretch text31:00: Collaborative strategic reading39:00: Project PACT

*Timestamps are approximate, rounded to nearest minute

Dr. HyeJin Hwang is an assistant professor and literacy researcher whose research interests revolve around reading comprehension and content learning in K–12 settings, particularly for multilingual students. In this week’s episode of the podcast, HyeJin Hwang talks with Susan Lambert about background knowledge (what it is, how it’s built, and more), the importance of broad knowledge, the connections between knowledge and vocabulary, and unit planning rather than lesson planning. English wasn’t Dr. Hwang’s own first language, and her research on supporting multi-language learners is informed by her own experiences learning English and later teaching English as a second language.  Whether you’re just starting to establish a solid foundation on knowledge building or you’re looking to explore the topic from new angles, this episode is the one to listen to.Show Notes: 

• Meta-Analysis: “Effects of integrated literacy and content-area instruction on vocabulary and comprehension in the elementary years: A meta-analysis,” by HyeJin Hwang et al., 2021
• Practitioner Paper: “What research says about leveraging the literacy block for learning” (p.35-48), by HyeJin Hwang et al., 2021
• Read: “Making the most of read-alouds to support primary-grade students’ inference-making," by HyeJin Hwang et al., 2023
• Read: “A longitudinal investigation of directional relations between domain knowledge and reading in the elementary years,” by HyeJin Hwang, et al., 2022
• Read: “The multidimensional knowledge in text comprehension framework,” by Kathryn S. McCarthy and Danielle S. McNamara, 2022
• Listen: S8E1, with Reid Smith and Pamela Snow
• Listen: S8E2, with Molly Ness 

Quotes: “Knowledge building cannot wait… Start from the beginning of schooling, from early grades. Multilingual students and monolingual students, they both need support developing knowledge and literacy skills.” —HyeJin Hwang

“In knowledge building, we usually like to go for cultivating in-depth knowledge. That means interconnected ideas need to be told throughout multiple lessons, multiple classes, rather than planning individual separate lessons.” —HyeJin Hwang“When readers have good broad knowledge, prior knowledge, then it is more likely the readers can recall text information ideas, and they can make better inferences about missing ideas in text.” —HyeJin HwangEpisode Content Timestamps*

2:00: Introduction: Who is Dr. HyeJin Hwang?6:00: Comprehension models8:00: What is background knowledge?10:00: Activating and integrating background knowledge15:00: Mitigating background knowledge issues21:00: Strategy instruction22:00: What should knowledge building instruction look like for students?27:00: Advice for elementary school teachers to change their instruction32:00: Broad knowledge and why it matters38:00: Content knowledge and multilingual learners44:00: Final thoughts and advice*Timestamps are approximate, rounded to nearest minute

A name known throughout the literacy world, Maryanne Wolf, Ed.D., directs UCLA’s Center for Dyslexia, Diverse Learners, and Social Justice. She’s published over 170 scientific articles  and four books focusing on the science of the reading brain. In her conversation with Susan in this episode, she discusses the reading brain in a digital context and delves into some of the tensions of the present moment in literacy instruction: the Science of Reading beyond just phonics, the plea to preserve deep reading, and literacy and screens. She also talks about the topics she’s most focused on and the ones she feels are most pressing in general when it comes to research on the brain and literacy. And she ends with an impassioned message to teachers, expressing her deep respect and gratitude. Show notes:

• Book: Proust and the Squid: The Story and Science of the Reading Brain
• Book: Tales of Literacy for the 21st Century: The Literary Agenda
• Book: Reader, Come Home: The Reading Brain in a Digital World 
• Listen: klein-podcast-maryanne-wolf.html">Maryanne Wolf on The Ezra Klein Show

Quotes:“What I would say to any teacher of balanced literacy: Let us bring our best selves and expand our knowledge. We both have things we can learn from each other. ” —Maryanne Wolf, Ed.D.

“Pass on why you learned to be a teacher. Pass it on to your students. Let’s make that next generation of teachers truly excited about what we can do to release the potential of every child.” —Maryanne Wolf, Ed.D.Episode Content Timestamps*2:00: Introduction: Who is Maryanne Wolf?7:00: Cognitive neuroscience and how it relates to early childhood literacy14:00: Elements kids aged 0-5 need to develop before build the reading circuits in the brain21:00: Maryanne’s first book, Proust and the Squid27:00: Maryanne’s third book, Reader Come Home31:00: The reading brain in the digital age: What screens do to the reading brain43:00: Maryanne Wolf and the Science of Reading movement 48:00: Discussing presentation with the Teachers College55:00: Most important topics in the evolving world of reading research58:00: Maryanne’s message to teachers of deep gratitude and respect 

*Timestamps are approximate, rounded to nearest minute

As a writer of several books for teachers and parents, former kindergarten teacher, and current associate professor of language and literacy in the Department of Teacher Education at Michigan State University, Tanya S. Wright, Ph.D., has maintained focus on a singular question: How can we most effectively work with students in the early education setting? In answering that question, Wright has researched and written on two interesting areas: vocabulary development, and best practices for literacy development in young children. Listeners will come away from this conversation with some great tips and strategies for developing vocabulary, working effectively with younger students, and integrating writing and vocabulary.Show notes:

• Read: “A Teacher's Guide to Vocabulary Development Across the Day: The Classroom Essentials Series”
• Read: “Literacy Learning for Infants, Toddlers, and Preschoolers: Key Practices for Educators”
• More from Dr. Wright: Follow Tanya S. Wright on X

Quotes:"We need kids to be able to sound out the words, but we also need them to know what they mean. Otherwise, the text won't make sense. So we really need to be working on both of these at the same time." —Tanya S. Wright"Really value what kids bring to the classroom, even if it's not perfect yet, or if it's not exactly what adults would say." —Tanya S. Wright"It's really important that we're thinking about purposeful, planned, and intentional vocabulary supports to make sure that everybody is included in the learning and can participate in the classroom." —Tanya S. Wright"Realistically, kids love to learn big words. They make use of them. They don't really differentiate it. So that's an adult imposition, right? Which ones are the big ones or which ones are the hard ones? If we use them with kids, they will use them too. And enjoy it." —Tanya S. WrightEpisode content timestamps*:2:00: Introduction: Who is Tanya Wright?4:00: Journey to studying vocabulary: What is the importance?6:00: What does it mean to know a word?11:00: How do knowledge and vocabulary connect and why can't they be divorced?17:00: Tips for being planned and purposeful with vocabulary instruction22:00: Integrating vocabulary across content areas27:00: What would you say to someone who says a word is "too hard" for a kid?33:00: How has your thinking changed about the approach to vocabulary from when you started your research?37:00: Final advice for educators*Timestamps are approximate, rounded to the nearest minute. 

Returning guest and recent doctoral degree recipient Dr. Jasmine Rogers rejoins the podcast to discuss findings from her research on Black language and teacher perceptions of Black language. Dr. Rogers shares strategies for how educators can better serve students by allowing them to be more themselves in the classroom. She also shares specific teacher approaches she's observed that listeners can apply in their own classrooms. Lastly Dr. Rogers inspires listeners with emotional stories—including her own—about educators learning and growing, and posits that starting with introspection can often have the greatest impact on the classroom.Show notes:

• Listen: Jasmine’s first appearance on Science of Reading: The Podcast
• Read: “Importance-of-Phonemic-Awareness-Instruction-for-African-American-Studies.pdf">The Importance of Phonemic Awareness Instruction for African American Students” by Ramona T. Pittman, Marianne Rice, Esther Garza, and Myriam J. Guerra
• Read: “Difference or Deficit in Speakers of African American English?” by Linda M. Bland-Stewart
• Reference: “Phonemic Inventories and Cultural and Linguistic Information Across Languages,” American Speech-Language-Hearing Association (ASHA)

Quotes:"You address people as human beings because they're human and that's the right thing to do." —Dr. Jasmine Rogers"The history of our country, the history of who we are as individuals in our families, absolutely impacts who we are as teachers and how we show up in the classroom." —Dr. Jasmine Rogers"A lot of change is just being open to feedback, being curious, and ensuring that whatever you are doing, you are not causing harm to students." —Dr. Jasmine Rogers"If I was able to make a change, you 110 percent can make a change. And a lot of that is just being open to feedback, being curious, and ensuring that whatever you are doing, you are not causing harm to students." —Dr. Jasmine RogersEpisode Content Timestamps*

2:00: Recap of the last episode with Dr. Jasmine Rogers4:00: How teachers respond when students use Black language in their lessons and how that impacts student behavior11:00: Observation on teacher moves in the classroom, pre and post professional development23:00: Tips for educators wanting to be more affirming in the classroom26:00: Resources for learning the phonological features of different languages & the importance of relationship building and knowing your students31:00: How we teach irregularly spelled words & syllable stresses35:00: Emotional stories from educators & final encouragement from Dr. Jasmine Rogers*Timestamps are approximate, rounded to nearest minute

This episode’s guest is Margaret McKeown, Ph.D., a retired professor from the University of Pittsburgh, decades-long researcher, and former elementary school teacher. In it, Margaret and Susan address why vocabulary is so important, particularly for knowledge building; talk about the various elements of effective vocabulary instruction; discuss the key role of informal instruction in vocabulary building; and share best practices for assessing vocabulary. Listeners will come away from this episode with a deeper understanding of the how and why of vocabulary instruction, as well as tips for bolstering vocabulary instruction in their own communities.Show notes:

• Follow Margaret on X
• Listen: In Season 8 Episode 3, Gina Cervetti also spoke with Susan about vocabulary development 
• Book: Bringing Words to Life: Robust Vocabulary Instruction by Isabel L. Beck, Margaret G. McKeown, Linda Kucan 
• Book: Creating Robust Vocabulary by Isabel L. Beck, Margaret G. McKeown, Linda Kucan 
• Book: Vocabulary Assessment to Support Instruction by Margaret G. McKeown, Paul D. Deane, Judith A. Scott, Robert Krovetz, and René R. Lawless
• Website: Etymonline.com, for learning about etymology 

Quotes:“Good instruction needs to be interactive. We're using words. Vocabulary pervades the day.” —Margaret McKeown

“Relax, because you're never going to be able to teach kids all the words that they really need to know, so just drop that.” —Margaret McKeown

“There is no perfect set of words, so don't worry about which words you're using, just sort of tune your mind to the kinds of words that turn up in texts a lot, ones that go across texts, not so much ones that are just, domain specific, but what words am I going to read in a novel, a social studies text, a newspaper article? Those are the kinds of words.” —Margaret McKeown

“If you do one thing, set up an attitude about words, this idea of reveling in words, and then just drop them in.” —Margaret McKeown

On this wide ranging episode, Susan finally gets the chance to speak with famed education thinker and author John Hattie, Ph.D. Hattie has authored dozens and dozens of books. He’s best known for his book, Visible Learning, which now has a sequel. In this episode, he discusses his career and shares with Susan some of the biggest takeaways from his work. He also explains what meta-analysis is and discusses some of the biggest takeaways from meta-analysis in the education field. They both also delve into the importance of successful implementation. And, finally, Hattie shares his thoughts on AI and the future of education. This episode offers many practical tips for educators to realign with their mission and dig into why they do what they do and how to best make an impact.Show notes: 

• Book: Visible Learning: The Sequel by John Hattie 
• Book: Visible Learning and the Science of How We Learn by John Hattie and Gregory C.R. Yates
• Book: Making Room for Impact by Arran Hamilton, John Hattie, and Dyland William
• Read: The Future of AI in Education: 13 Things We Can Do to Minimize the Damage

Quotes:“Your job is not to get through the curriculum, your job is not to get kids engaged in authentic, real-world, exciting tasks. Your job is to have an impact across those many notions.” —John Hattie, Ph.D.

“We're very good at finding problems and fixing them but we're not as good—we're not having the courage—to study expertise and scale it up. And that's my mission. Scale up the expertise we have.” —John Hattie, Ph.D.

“I'm an evidence-based person. Sometimes I don't like the results, but that doesn't mean you get to deny it. Some people want to deny it. Some people want to get angry with it. And sometimes evidence does get in the way of a good opinion.” —John Hattie, Ph.D.