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Russell Brunson put out a challenge, to publish a high quality piece of content every day for a year.
To get all Meta on you this episode explores why I have taken up the challenge, what I am looking to get out of posting every day for a year and this episode is actually day 1 of 365.
I have decided to create a framework to follow to increase my likelihood of success and to also ensure the quality of the content stays high.
Check out todays episode to find out why I am doing it, how I am doing it and the strategy I intend on using to repurpose the content across different platforms to publish 36 times per week.
Eric Z. Yang is the founder of LeadNextGen & reknown virtual summit expert.
Born and raised in Paris, Eric built his first 6-figure business at age 20 by hosting conferences for leaders and entrepreneurs under 30.
He has created a proven lead generation system that establishes entrepreneurs as industry leaders in less than 90 days with virtual summits.
Eric’s online events have gathered over 45,000 attendees across 40 countries. Some of his notable online conferences include industries such as short-term rentals, digital agencies, cryptocurrency, dropshipping & real estate.
Eric partners with 6 & 7 figure companies and influencers to build virtual summits that systematically generate peak authority and leads for their businesses & teaches young entrepreneurs who get paid to learn from industry experts.
He is also the author of “Virtual Summit Launch Formula” & host of the F*ck College Podcast.
Christine Clapp is the founder of Spoken with Authority, a Washington, D.C.-based presentation skills consultancy that elevates the presence and expands the influence of professionals through coaching engagements and training programs.
Victor Ahipene: Speaking nation, what’s happening? Welcome to another episode of Public Speaking secrets here from COVID studios. I’m your host, Victor. I am looking forward to introducing you to something that I think will be very beneficial to develop now and then with the world and how it’s going to change, and the new world that we’re going into. I think it’s going to be really beneficial. So Christine Clapp onto the shows today and she’s based out of Washington. She’s written a book called Presenting at Work and she is the founder of a company called Spoken with Authority. Little that being said, welcome to the show, Christine.
Christine Clapp: Thanks for having me.
Victor Ahipene: One of those things that I think, we’re obviously on a public speaking podcast, a lot of people have that fear when it comes to public speaking. And then I think a lot of people just put out to be minimum when it comes to obligatory public speaking, which I think most often that happens in day to day life is in the workplace. And so it’s something that I always find really, really interesting because you can teach someone potentially how to give a good keynote presentation. But when it comes to, when you’ve got to insert graphs or information or those repeated presentations that you’ve got, it can be a whole different ball game. So how did you get into that space, the business space and the Presenting at Work and all of that, and your journey?
Christine Clapp: Thanks for asking. So my journey started back when I was a college student. I went to a small school in the State of Oregon. It is called Willamette University and it was one of just a couple of schools that had an undergraduate major in rhetoric. And that’s the study of persuasion. I was really interested in it, but it had a requirement for oral communication proficiency, which meant doing the debate team for a semester. And that terrified me. I was not a comfortable public speaker or a polished presenter. I really didn’t want to do it. But I decided I really love this idea of studying persuasion. I think it could be useful in a lot of different professional paths, so I’m just going to sign up for debate and see how it goes and if it’s a complete disaster and I don’t get oral communication proficiency, I’ll just switch to chemistry or another subject that I liked. So I did debate and of my first two debate tournaments, I won zero debates. I lost every single one. There wasn’t even someone who forfeited because they were running late. I was terrible. I was the worst person on my debate team. And even though I never actually read the fine print that you could get your proficiency by participating, you didn’t actually have to win any debates, I came back my sophomore year to debate because it was a frustrating experience. I knew that my opponents weren’t better, smarter. They were poised and polished and articulate and I knew that as an 18 year old kid, if I didn’t figure out how to do that, it would put me at a disadvantage no matter what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. My sophomore year, I came back, I ended up getting a really great debate partner who was a freshman who had debated in high school. He actually is the coauthor of Presenting at Work, the book that I wrote with Bjørn Stillion Southard and we debated and we had great coaches. I had a great partner. We did lots of rehearsals. And by the end of my sophomore year, I made it to the national tournament. I qualified to go, I participated and I made it to the elimination rounds of the tournament. I was also named the most improved debater of my sophomore year and that’s all to say that I had this huge transformation of going from being a really terrible speaker to finding a moderate measure of success and finding any comfort and confidence as a speaker. I continued debating throughout college and by the time I graduated, I knew that for the rest of my life, I wanted to help people with these skills to give them that public speaking presentation skills piece that you need to unlock your leadership potential. No matter whether you’re in politics or whether you’re in science or you’re a journalist or a researcher, no matter what it is that you do, you really have to be able to articulate yourself. And I founded Spoken with Authority in 2008 and the rest is history.
Victor Ahipene: It’s awesome. What I love is you went from being pretty average to some level of success. The level of success side of things, I think, is really irrelevant because everyone’s bars are so much different. Winning one debate could have been a degree of success, but I think the success there is, and what I love is that extreme transformation. You would have seen. I’ve seen a lot in regards to the confidence that people can have like you, I’m sure, and workshops and training that you do. You can see it in hours. You can see someone go from stuttering with cue cards to confidently delivering and holding a room in the space of hours. And it’s something that holds a lot of people back. And this is why I really wanted to get you on the show. In the career progression, those people who are looking to become better speakers within the organization, they may be a business owner, they may not be, but they may just be a person looking to get to the next level on an executive team or to get to a manager and they keep turning down the opportunities to speak. Do you see that a lot? Or is it just something I’ve made up in my head on the people who are turning down those opportunities in work?
Christine Clapp: No, I see it too. The place where I see it is, we work with lots of different types of people. We do training programs. We also do one on one coaching and a lot of the one on one coaching clients that come to us, they come to us when they’re at a pivot point in their career where they have an opportunity to present at a conference, where they have an opportunity to give a celebratory speech such as a graduation address or a Ted style talk, a thought leader talk. They might have a job interview or a job talk if they’re an academic and they get to this point in their career where they have that big opportunity, they know it’s a big opportunity and they are not ready for it. And so that’s the moment where they come in search of our support and our help because they know that this is a make-or-break moment. Our goal is to help people in that moment, teach them the tools and strategies so they can do well for that presentation. But the bigger picture is that we want to give people the tools and strategies starting when they’re a young professional or starting when they’re a college student or starting before then so that they don’t have to have that crisis moment so that they are taking- When you’re a brand new professional, you may not have a ton of opportunities to speak at conferences, but we want young professionals to think about, “Oh yeah, when I give an update at our team meeting, that’s a public speaking opportunity.” It’s not a conference. There’s no stage, there’s no microphone but me doing my virtual meeting or standing up in front of my team for our Monday morning meeting, that is an opportunity for speaking. So we want to help people in the crisis moment but bigger pictures. We want to help people build the skills in the day to day, week to week speaking opportunities that so many people don’t think of them as quote unquote public speaking. But they are public speaking opportunities. If you look at them like that, if you approach them like that, if you deliver like that, because if you do those practice the skills and strategies and techniques in those day to day, week to week, month to month opportunities, when those big make-or-break ones, the career opportunities come along, you already are ready. You don’t have to freak out.
Victor Ahipene: And that’s what I think. A lot of people, they either freak out or they go into it and they go, “Oh look, this is an obligatory presentation that I have to give at work.” rather than an opportunity. And so they just make it like everybody else. Boring, read off the slides, put you to sleep, no enthusiasm into it. Nothing, nothing like that. So that’s what I would love to jump into. I guess the second half of this episode is what are some of the actionable ways that people can present more effectively within their work, within their own workplace? Whether it be, how to, I’m happy to let you guide and have a discussion around it or whether it be like, how to present data, which can often be a bit dry or boring or information. How to incorporate storytelling into the different things. Do you have a system or an approach that you work towards when you’re helping people?
Christine Clapp: Yeah, we do. And again, we have our own approach. I think there are lots of awesome approaches out there. So this is just ours. And I think that the message for your viewers is that it’s not important that you use our approach. The important thing is that you adopt an approach and a strategy. Our particular approach is that we start with an outline because we think that when people start writing text on slides or writing text on paper, that leads to that scripted, unemotional delivery that does not build rapport because there’s no eye contact. So we want people to start with one sheet of paper, write words and phrases on it and we do it all on one sheet and we start with that central idea. And for most workplace presentations, that central idea, you’re either going to inform someone about something or you’re going to persuade them to do something and you have to be really clear about what you want people to know or to do at the end of your presentation. And the biggest mistake we see people make is that if they’re trying to inform, they want to inform them of way too much. If they’re an expert in something, they want to teach the people in the room what they know. The people in the room don’t need to know what you know. They need to know enough about what you know so they can reach out to you for help is usually the answer. And in terms of persuasion, when you want someone to do something, people have a very limited capacity to do things. So the amount of time that we’re willing to take after we listen to a speech and how far we’re going to stick out our neck to do something, I do have a pretty low bar in terms of what we’re asking people to do, whether it’s to make a donation or to invest time or to vote. We have to be really, really careful about how much we ask. Because if we ask too much, people get overwhelmed, they just, they won’t do anything. So you have to be strategic about what your goal is and to be realistic about what you can accomplish. So that’s the first thing.
The next thing that we do, getting to your question about how do we avoid just reading data off slides, is once we put together that central idea, we encourage our speakers to think of a structure that they could arrange their main ideas to support that thesis. And think about an organizational pattern that’s logical both to the speaker and to the listener and some of those organizational patterns, for example, for informative speech, you might tell three examples or three stories of how, what happened, or three case studies. You might talk about three different topics or you might talk about what happened in the past, what’s happening in the present, what do you expect to happen in the future. So a chronological pattern of organization. For persuasive speech, you might identify a problem and the solution and the benefits of the solution. You might talk about why we should do it, how we should go about doing something and what the benefits of doing it are. So similar to problem-solution. For any of those structures then, you want to think about the structure of your ideas. You want to think about, how do I add in humanistic elements to that structure? And some of those structures already have humanistic elements worked in. So if you tell three stories or examples, those stories or examples are the humanistic element. If you talk about why, how, and what, you might have examples or stories that you tell within each part of that structure. But the important thing is to think about where the story’s fall in and it might be for the main points themselves, might be a sub point to support the main point, it might be the introduction and conclusion as a way to break in narrative and narrative element. And then another way to do it is to think about how you could use metaphors and analogies. And for people who use data and science, those metaphors and analogies can be really helpful to explain what exactly is going on. So use one concept to make it clear what another concept is about. And you might even be able to use it for the entire structure of your speech. So your organizational structure could be hinging on a metaphor.
For example, I’m putting together a webinar in how to have presence in virtual meetings, something everyone’s thinking over right now. So what we did is we talked about it in terms of a cooking analogy. So the recipe and ingredients is what goes into it. That’s your agenda and the participants. Whether it’s an in person meeting or virtual meeting, you see you need to have a recipe and you need to have great ingredients. They might be a little bit different based on whether you’re using an Instant Pot or a grill, but you still have to have those fundamentals going into it. Then we talked about the equipment you’re using. Are you using a green egg, are you using an Instant pot? Are you using your barbecue grill or smoker? That’s the equipment. That’s like, do you use zoom or WebEx or an in person meeting or whatever the case is?
And then at the end it’s how do you conduct yourself? So how do you actually cook the meal? So the conduct in terms of that situation, the metaphor is what’s your presence? How do you work on your verbal and nonverbal language and your setting, and your clothing? How does that all play in? So that was one cooking metaphor to help people make sense of how you approach virtual communication. So that’s an example of how you can approach the humanistic side. And then so we have the crafting of the content. We think about the humanistic elements. Those humanistic elements oftentimes might have a visual element that goes with it. It might be a prop, it might be a slide, it might be a handout, or maybe it’s nothing. Maybe it’s a flip chart and markers. It depends on the situation and the speaker and the audience. Then after you do that, then you want to shift to that. How do you say it? And what we find is that most speakers don’t practice enough. So we recommend that speakers practice a presentation six times out loud to get confident with it and to become more fluent so they can have a really conversational and confident delivery. And it’s the reason why we think most speakers are really nervous and why most speeches are not conversational is people just don’t know the material well enough. So those are the three big pieces that we encourage folks to think about in terms of the putting together of a great presentation.
Victor Ahipene: It’s what I love when you said practicing at least six times. I think the other thing is people without a system or a formula or a recipe, they don’t bother practicing because they’re like, ‘Why shine a turd?’
Christine Clapp: Exactly, yeah!
Victor Ahipene: It’s kind of like, ‘It’s going to be crap. Why practice it to make it a little bit less crap or fluently crap?’ I think as soon as you realize you put any of the multitude of things that you’ve put into place, like one of those things, it doesn’t even matter if it fits your organization if you suck already. Like, if you pick in the past and the present and the future, and you apply that and you go out and you practice it six times, and you add some humanistic elements into it and whatever else, you’re going to be a lot better. Because I use a similar analogy to the cooking in the sense of it’s like riding a bike. You don’t begin riding in the tour de France or the Olympics. You start off on a tricycle or a bike with training wheels, and then you’re riding around in your backyard without the training wheels and you go into the road. But if you don’t know how to ride at the start, it’s kind of like, ‘Oh, I can see this person riding. I’m just going to try and have that kind of a skill without really putting the time into it. So I’ll just walk down to the local shop instead of jumping on my bike.’ That’s what I think a lot of people tend to do.
I think people, if you’re listening to this, you’re listening to it for a reason because you want to improve your presentations at work. So I’d highly suggest going back to a lot of those points that we’ve just been gifted by Christine, because they are valuable. You have to implement them. That’s what you have to do. You have to get out there and practice it and implement it because it’s all well and good knowing it, but the rubber’s gonna meet the road at some stage.
My other question, and I know you’ve kind of touched on it already with your answers, some presentations are just unavoidably information deans or data deans. What are some strategies that people can kind of either soften the blow or disguise some of that information into the presentation and let’s say a situation where there’s still a degree of time restraint. It’s not like, ‘I’m going to make this meeting run over time because I’m going to give an awesome story for every piece of data point or something like that.’ Is there any technical ways that you look to integrate information and data?
Christine Clapp: Yes, and it’s a great question. How do you deal with data heavy presentations? The first recommendation I have is to look at the data that you want to present and to ask yourself why you want to present it. What is the purpose of sharing this information? What is the ultimate goal? And then take a step back and ask which pieces are necessary for me to share in order to reach my goal? Because a lot of times, we have a lot of data because we worked our butts off to collect that data, to analyze the data, to write reports about the data and we want to show everyone what we did. And I get the impulse to do that when we’re so close to a topic. We have to remember that your audience is never as close to a topic is you. They never care about as much as you do. So you have to figure out, of everything I have, I know that I have a very limited capacity for people to listen and for them to either learn or take action. So what am I going to focus it down on that is most important to get across and what are the most compelling pieces of data? So first of all, narrow, narrow, narrow, narrow, narrow. And now in this world of Covid19, when we’re doing virtual meetings and presentations, you have to narrow even further because we have even a shorter attention span on a virtual meeting than we do in person. So that’s first. Narrow.
Second is that when you are sharing data, I encourage you to try to link it to a story. So here is an example of a phenomenon which is happening to one person, or one city, or one case study and this is what it looks like when we look at the data from a much larger sample so that people can connect to it through that story. People don’t connect to the aggregated data, but they can connect to the one story which makes it important. Like, ‘Oh yeah, this one story, I get it. I can feel that it’s an important issue. It resonates with me.’ But then use the data to say, and it’s not just one person that’s happening in all of these places, in all these contexts, and then it makes it something that needs action. So I care about it and now I need to act on it.
And then the other thing I would say, one of the biggest problems I see with presentations with graphs is when you put something on a slide, when you put data on a slide, make sure again that you call out all of the unnecessary stuff. Oftentimes, when we present our data in the report or the binder, the article, there’s a lot going on in the charts. You really want to strip down anything that’s unnecessary from what you put on the screen. Otherwise, it’s just going to be overwhelming and people are going to be trying to read it and make sense of it and the minute they do that, they’ve lost you and your commentary. So really simplify it. And then the heading of your slide or of the handout, whatever you’re doing as your visual aid, should have an argument. Because if you just say, ‘Graph about trend’, you are not analyzing what the data says or making an argument to your audience about what the data says or what they should believe about it or do about it or know about it. You need to make that connection. It should be an argument at the top of that slide. That argument needs to be reinforced in the verbal communication as well. So make arguments in the titles of your headings that go with the visuals, the slides, the graphics, and whenever possible, link them to a story or a humanistic element to really make it resonate with people on a human level.
Victor Ahipene: Yeah, I love that point in regards to the argument because you see it in the slide. I’ve been to, in previous years, in kind of like health professional based conferences and stuff like that. And like you say, they just get so excited about all their data that they just drown you in it. They’re not really talking, they’re just explaining what the article says rather than, ‘Does this work better than this? It’s like, ‘Oh, well we researched this and blah blah blah. Here’s what graph number one says.’ And it’s exactly that. And you see people are pulling out their phones or just walking out of this dark place. In a boardroom, you might not be able to do that, but you’re going to lose the tension. And what I find really, really amazing is little things, just such little things. All you’re doing is tweaking what you’re already planning on delivering. You might be cutting a few things out and changing how you present that information, but it makes a huge difference. And then all of a sudden it’s like, ‘Wow, Victor is a really good presenter. We might get him to see if he wants to do such and such, or we’ll get him to do another one of these.’ And it’s just like the snowballing effect of opportunities that you kind of see from there.
Christine Clapp: I would say in regard to that, a lot of times people who we work, they’re subject matter experts and they’re serious and they’re hardworking and when we come to them and we say, ‘How can we do this presentation differently and to have this humanistic element and to think about differently?’ And they’re really concerned about, they’re like, ‘Oh gosh, no one else on my conference does it like this or no one else in the board does their presentation like this.’ That’s the point. If you do it differently, that’s why they will pick you to do more speaking roles is because you’re not falling into the same mistakes that everyone else at the conference and everyone else in the organization does. So we always say, you gotta go big. Go big or go home. You have to take risks as a speaker. And there is a risk that it’s not going to go well. But what we found is that even if some of the risks may fall a little flat, I mean, yeah, you want to make sure you’re not telling an off color political joke. Yeah, you definitely want beta test things. But even if people like, ‘It’s a little bit too much.’ or whatever, I think that audiences are really magnanimus toward people who are trying to make their material more interesting and more understandable.
So if you look at people like Hans Rosling with his global population box by box, and he has his props from Ikea and it is a little hokey, but people remember it and they get it and they say, ‘You know what? At least he didn’t give the same old boring thing where people are trying to edge out of the room in the dark.’ So when your listeners say, ‘Gosh, these are kind of different ideas, I don’t know if I can do it.’ When you question it like, ‘Should I do that?’ That’s when you should lean into it absolutely because you will stand out from everyone else on your team. And you will get more opportunities and that will take you up the ladder. So when you’re questioning, when you’re uncomfortable, that’s exactly where you need to go. Public speaking should not be a comfortable experience. Our line is, the harder it is to give the speech, the better the speeches. And that oftentimes has to come at, where it comes in is if you’re sharing a difficult personal experience or story or a failure of loss, those are the speeches that people will never forget, but are really hard to give. So when you have that sense of discomfort, that’s exactly where you need to go.
Victor Ahipene: I love that. Another example is my fiance was doing her masters for physiotherapy, like physical therapy and the last assignment was to present at this small to medium sized conference. The six of them all had to present and I was like, ‘No, you can’t do it like everybody else has done it.’ The first image she had was like an arrested Tiger Woods. Like, drugged up and drunk and everyone’s like, no one was really shocked. It was like, ‘Oh my God, they’re not starting with the title of the presentation, read off a PowerPoint presentation like that.’ The presentation got the information, it challenged the and blah, blah, blah. You’d kind of hope so when your other half is not bad at helping people with public speaking but it worked. It ended up, guess what? Got the best mark out of their class for the presentation. Why? Because it wasn’t the same boring, dry stuff. And people will remember it to a degree. They’re going to remember a lot more than what they remember from others.
Christine Clapp: Right. In that moment of, when they see the image on the screen and there’s that disconnect. Like, where is the speaker going? There’s that suspense. And that’s exactly what you want to do as a public speaker is you want to create suspense. So the best public speakers are ones who can draw that suspense out to the end. And I would say for someone who’s just starting, that’s a lot to ask. You’ll be able to do it with your introduction until you get into the main point of your presentation. But next time that your listeners listen to a keynote speaker, someone who gets paid thousands of dollars as a professional speaker, those are the people who can create suspense throughout the whole presentation. At the very end, they’re able to resolve it and it keeps you listening and on the edge of your seat the whole time. And you have to do that when you are at that high, high, high level of speaking because that’s the only way that you’ll be able to win over the internet. Because now that everyone has a phone in their pocket, like when I started doing this, I’ve been teaching and doing this work starting in 2001 and people didn’t have access to the wifi, they didn’t have laptops, they didn’t have smartphones. So you only had to be better than falling asleep. That was how entertaining you had to be. But now as a speaker, we all have to be better than the worldwide web, everything on the internet because people have it at their fingertips. So I think that the standard, the requirement of us in terms of being interesting and polling people really has gone up. So I think more than ever, the go-big-or-go-home is really important. And now that people are working from home, it’s 10 times because in a face to face meeting, when I get out my phone, you can see that and there’s still a little bit of social shame that goes along with it. Whereas now on zoom, I know that zoom has an attention feature, so there’s some ways to tell if people are paying attention, but there’s very little social shame when you just leave the box open and you start working on your email or surfing the web. So I think that she went the right direction and that’s exactly the way that your listeners need to go when they’re thinking about, is this really a risk worth taking? I think those risks are necessary or else you’re irrelevant.
Victor Ahipene: That’s brilliant. Well, talking about suspense and holding it for all the way to the end, this has been an absolutely brilliant episode and I know a lot of people are going to get a lot of benefit out of it. For those people out there who have heard that you’ve got a book or they’re wanting to find out how they can work further with you, where can they go and what can they do?
Christine Clapp: Well, thanks for asking. We are on Twitter, @spokenauthority. We’re also on LinkedIn, Spoken with Authority and of course our website, Spokenwithauthority.com are all great ways to get connected with us and we look forward to having that community of folks to learn more about how to be great speakers and how to fulfill leadership potential.
Victor Ahipene: That’s brilliant. Well we’ll link all of that at publicspeakingblueprint.com. Look, Christine, it’s been absolutely amazing. I really appreciate your time. We welcome you into our speaking nation family and I look forward to hopefully when the world allows people to talk in person again, that we hopefully cross paths sometime in the near future.
Christine Clapp: I would love that. Stay well, stay healthy.
Getting into corporate training and running workshops is for many of us a big goal. The problem is not many people are out there showing you how.
In this episode, Anthony Kirby breaks down how to get a foot in the door, how to price your self and create a no brainer decision for the company, the unknown risk-reversal technique that Anthony has used to add an extra ZERO to his contracts.
We also go deep into what actually makes an effective and engaging workshop particularly for those who have been forced to attend.
I have never heard anyone share this insight into the behind the scenes of a successful corporate trainer.
eVictor Ahipene: Speaking nation, what’s happening? Welcome to another episode of the Public Speaking Secrets podcast. I’m Victor your host today. As always, I’m super excited to introduce you to one of my friends who is doing cool things in a multitude of different areas that I think will benefit a lot of you out there. He’s helping a lot of coaches out there in the online space, but he also helps a lot of businesses increase the sales and their productivity with workshops.
I know a lot of the listeners out there are looking to get into the corporate space or the workshop space, or even to up the coaching abilities. I know that my friend Anthony Kirby has been there and done that and has got the runs on the board. Welcome to the show mate. Pleasure to have you.
Anthony Kirby: Thanks mate. It’s nice to have this opportunity to interact with a human. COVID 19 environment we find ourselves in at the time of recording.
Victor Ahipene: Yeah so if you’re listening to this at the moment, we’re both currently in COVID studios which is a very socially distance via zoom. I know a lot of people have just figured out and found out about zoom, which is a pretty funny, all the people just go, “Oh my God, there’s this thing called zoom. You should jump on it.”
Anthony Kirby: You know what, there’s a lesson straightaway. There’s a lesson than that for every person who wants to speak around the world is that like the market is not as sophisticated as you potentially think it is. So what we think is like very basic is actually in fact not very basic to the people who need our message. That’s the reason why she keeps turning up because we take it for granted what we learn and what we teach. This is the classic example of it right now with people moving into a digital format of life.
Victor Ahipene: Yes. Well that’s, 100%. Because I had three people message me last week asking if I could help them set up telehealth for their healthcare practitioner based things because they didn’t know how to take payments. I said, “Just set up Stripe.” “How do you seat up Stripe?” And use zoom, what zoom? Don’t underestimate your expertise because they were all super stoked that I could help them.
It was literally pretty easy for me. On what you do, you obviously do a little bit more than teach people how to use zoom and Stripe. which is what I want to touch on and that’s you running workshop, how did you kind of get into it and what do you do when you go into businesses?
Anthony Kirby: All right. I’m in the background of all of this is that when I moved to Australia, which is 16, 17 years ago, something like that. I got into sales and I quickly discovered I could do really good job of teaching people how to sell. I ended up doing a lot of sales training through my career, if you want to call it that. Then I decided about five and a half years ago now that I could probably help a lot more people if I went out on my own.
I left my kind of corporate job jumping out into the crazy world of entrepreneurship with bright eyes and all the dreams and all the things that people promise you out there, all the guru’s promise and started to teach sales teams essentially and go into businesses and run workshops and speak at conferences and events around the world on the topic, basically upsells and all sort of self-branding or marketing.
What was really good about that was the exact thing that we opened the show with is the fact that I remember the first time I spoke, I was thinking shit, like these people are going to know more than me. I was super nervous. I had a slide for everything I wanted to say. It was super like rehearsed, very, very kind of sterile. I realized that at the end of that the very basic stuff that I taught at the very start of the day was the stuff I could have talked about for eight hours and if I would have still worked.
The transition to workshops was almost, well actually to tell you the truth, it was by absolutely need. I started the business with this grand hope of working on a beach somewhere in Vanuatu, sipping on a Pina colada all day living the dream, but it didn’t work like that. I needed to make some money quick because I had a six month old baby. I called up 300 people. There’s a good lesson in this I want to share.
I call up 300 people in this specific industry and said, “Hi, I’m thinking of running this workshop to teach you about sales in this specific niche. Would you be interested in the ticket?” Every time I would call someone, I would get the feedback from that call and I’d say, “All right, I need to pivot my next call, a slot. I need to make the offer slightly different.” I learn all about risk reversal, all these like fundamentals of making a great offer. That’s how I feel the first event. We’ve got, I think 43 tickets. We sold at $300 for that event. That was pretty—I mean you’d remember that. We’ve known each other since those days.
Victor Ahipene: No, I literally remember we were jumping on a four way call, like an accountability call. You’re like, “Oh my God, I’ve got to make 300 calls today because it’s do or die.” My relationship’s on the rocks. My businesses on the rocks. My finances are on the rocks not because the business fundamentals weren’t there, but because of jumped out at without a paddle and my boat’s sinking. I’ve got to quickly learn how to swim. I literally remember that because I’ve referenced it to other people before, like jump out there and do that so yeah, sorry, carry on.
Anthony Kirby: It was massive. I think the biggest lesson from that for everyone is, it’s easy to fall in love with the concept of just a landing page, build a click funnels like Russell Brunson will save the day. You’re one funnel away from magic life. You’ve got to do the work as well. If you want to be out there and you want to be precedent in the market and you want people to respect you on a stage or in a room for a workshop, if that’s five people or 20 people or a thousand people, you’ve got to make the calls. You’ve got to tell people the benefit. You’ve got to learn how to sell first. Once you learn that, then you can fill any room. It’s easy after that and then you’ll get invited to other rooms and it just snowballs from there.
Victor Ahipene: Yeah, I mean I talk about that one should equal one at least, you speak one place and then it should open a door to another place and another place in that space. You went from the paid market to people to try and get into workshops. I can’t remember back then. Did you have also an up sell from there? Was it just get people in a room and just vomit some knowledge on them?
Anthony Kirby: Well, let me share the strategy because I think this is going to be really helpful for a lot of listeners. The strategy was I knew that if I could get these individuals into the room that they had, so these were business sales teams essentially, and I knew that if I could get them to go back to their respective businesses and do something different, it would open up the eyes of their management and the management would say, “Hang on a second. That’s probably because of Kirby’s event.”
And so the plan was if I could get them in the room, teach them for the day, buy them some drinks at the end. So I built a heap of rapport and trust, which I did. Then what followed was I followed up their businesses, their bosses, and I said, “Hey, such and such came to my event two weeks ago. I just wanted to check, are you seeing any differences?”
What happened was they were saying, “Absolutely yes. We actually have seen people go from the bottom of the sales leader board to the top of the sales leader board already. What is it that you do? What is it that you teach?”
It was basically my way of getting to the door for corporate business, corporate training and coaching without having a knock on the door and be the guy saying, “Hey, I’m the best corporate trainer in Australia.” It worked. So then I got a whole raft of corporate clients and start to then work individually for those businesses so rather than having an event where I was kind of pushing the ticket sales, they were just paying me a fee or a retainer, monthly retainer in most cases to come along and do quarterly workshops, fortnightly zoom calls, twice monthly zoom calls and try and people in workshop style settings either digitally or in a live environment.
Victor Ahipene: My big question from that is I think a lot of people can potentially, I want to get into the fundamentals of running a workshop for people as well. Before we get into there, I think people can understand all right, there’s multiple ways to sell tickets. You can do your online marketing. You can pick up the phone and hustle, whatever.
When it comes to that area where you can’t pick up a Russell Brunson book or a podcast or listen to a Facebook person to sell tickets. You’re actually going to these corporate organizations. I think you gave a bit of it away by following up with your bosses, which was a cool strategy, but moving forward, like for these other companies that you’ve gone on to work for, how did you find the decision maker and then how did you decide on a price? Because that’s the big like, “Oh my God. Am I undercharging myself? Am I overcharging myself and I’m going to lose it?” Where did you be able to figure out their price point?
Anthony Kirby: Two great questions right there. Let’s start with the first bit, which is how do you get in the door and passed the gatekeeper to the desk of the person or to the phone of the person that you want to deal with? Honestly, the answer is not one that most people like, but it’s write a book. Now, let’s just be clear here. It doesn’t have to be the 300 page bestselling thing. It could be like a 20 page guide that solves their big problems. If you know that, let’s just use an example here, Victor. Let’s say its physiotherapists. I know nothing about physios, but let’s just roll with that because you know that world.
If I think about like a physio therapy business owner, their big problem is probably one, getting skilled people, but from a sales and marketing perspective is getting people to show up for their appointments and making sure the lifetime value of the clients improved. They don’t have to go out and get more clients. Then I would just write like a small 10 page, 20 page document about, “Hey, here’s the three things I would recommend you do in your business to encourage client retention or to improve LTV, lifetime value” whatever it is that the problem is the main problem for your business owner.
Then literally get it professionally printed. Don’t just send them a word document because that looks rubbish. It costs nothing to go on and get it edited on Fiverr or Upwork. Get it made into a nice document. Send it to even if it’s office works or your similar office store that would print your office materials or even IngramSpark in Australia or Amazon direct, Kindle direct publishing if you’re in the US or you can pay three bucks or four bucks a copy.
Get it printed professionally. Pop it in and this is the key. This is the real part of the strategy. Most people would just post it to the business. The problem with that is it’s going to land on a PA’s desk or receptionist. It’s going to go to the mail room. It’s going to get sorted. It’s going to end up just in this giant pile of junk. When you FedEx someone and you put it so that the signatory is the person that you want to speak to, so they have to sign for it. They get this thing delivered to them and the FedEx guys at the front reception saying, “No, John Smith has to sign this. This is for John Smith. It’s not for the receptionist.” Then John Smith has to come and sign the thing so now, what does John Smith think? “Wow, this must be important. I’ve had to sign for it.” Now he goes back to his desk. He or she goes back to their respective desk. They sit down with their cup of coffee. They pull up in the FedEx envelope and they pull out your thing. Then they start going, “Wow that looks interesting. That’s the exact problem I’ve got.” Now you’ve got their interest.
Now what happens is, this is the part that most people fail, is that people expect John Smith or Jane Smith to pick up the phone and say, “Hey Kirby. Hi, Victor, I’d really like your guide. Thanks for sending it. I’d love to book you.” That’s not how it works. The fortune is in the follow-up. Then you follow up a week later and you say you get through Jane on the front desk or Bob on the front desk. He was going to be the gatekeeper and you say, “Hey Jane, I know that I can’t speak to John Smith right now because he’s very busy, but can I just ask one question?
Can you just go and double check with him just for a second and just check whether he’s had a chance to read my guide or read my book?” Then you get the follow-up from there. Generally what happens then is then they would go to John Smith and say, “Yep, John’s received it. He said, it’ll give you a call back.” Then you want to email John. Then you want to follow up John on LinkedIn. You want to get like hungry for the follow-up. If they don’t follow up, this is a method that I learned from Frank Kern and it’s the craziest thing ever, but for some bizarre reason it just works because it’s really memorable.
For me, so I was teaching sales training, so I would send like a bottle of champagne, like really nice French champagne. And so, “Hey, put this in your fridge. You’re going to need it when your sales records are broken.” Something like that or you could send them a baseball bat with their name engraved on it and say, “Hey, you’re going to need this because we’re going to hit some home runs when you work with me.” It’s just something really out there where people are like, “What the hell is this guy all about?” That’s how you get past the gatekeeper. That’s like kind of part one of that.
Let’s say you’re now at the table, you’re in the boardroom, you’re talking to the board, and you’re presenting to their people and sort of giving them a pitch. The next part of that is, how do you price the service? Most people go in there and they massively undervalue what it means for this business. The way that I do it, the way that I recommend you do it is to break your sales process in a two parts. First part being more of a discovery phase and then not the intention to sell in the boardroom.
The intent should be to sit there and say, “Hey, as a professional, my job here today is to get to know what you need. Then I’m going to go and put something together and come back and present it to you again.” They love that because it means that you’re listening to their needs. Sales one on one, right? The question I always like to ask is— I’ll give you the exact question.
I work in 90 day blocks with businesses so I work in a 90 day period and we do a 90 day growth plan. You might work differently. It might be six months, 12 months, one month, whatever. I would ask the question, “Look, for you to be absolutely just blown away by the results we get. What needs to happen in the next 90 days? What are the tangible outcomes you’re looking for as a business in the next 90 days?”
They will tell you. They’ll say, “We want more sales, more this, more that, better retention as a turnover, et cetera.” You want to then get specific about how much, so if a business owner says to me, “Kirby, get me $1 million in sales, million dollars extra sales in the next 90 days.” Then I would say, “If I get you $1 million in extra sales, what is that worth to you? What do you think its worth for you as a business like net profits or end outcome?”
My experience tells me from doing this a few hundred times now that is generally 10 times what you’re going to create and turn over. So if you divided by 10 that should be your fee. So if you’re gone in there and you’re saying a million of extra sales, you can easily charge $100,000. Now, there’s a caveat to this though, because most people will be like, “Holy shit, Kirby. I couldn’t go in there and charge $100,000, no one would take it.”
Well, this is my take anyway. You need to make and get a results guarantee. It can’t be all about you going and taking the money out of their pocket. This is what gets you the business. If you go in there and say, “Look, there’s no guarantee that we can get this. Here’s what I’m going to do.” This is a 100%, 100% relationship. I’ve got to put in as much as you do. I’ve got to come and deliver to your guys. I’ve got to come and speak. I’ve got to come and make sure they implement.
Here’s what we’re going to do. I want you to pay me $10,000 for the next 90 days. If I get you that result, I want you to pay me the balance. That really works. Now, it might not be that you go in there at 100,000 it might be that you say, “You know what, 30 grand a good number.” So when I was doing this, I was generally ending up charging a client $86,000 per quarter. It was what I was charging.
I’ve never had anyone push back and say, “Kirby, that’s ridiculous.” Like every client that I had that conversation with, and there’s more to that whole sales process of course. I’m giving you the real very basic aspect of this. There was never a situation where I was sitting there and the client’s saying to me, “No, it’s not worth $86,000.” Because I demonstrated the path that we were going to go on. I had a proven system. I had great results already. I was able to go in there and say, “Hey, if I don’t hit this result, I’ll work with your team until we do.” There was massive buy in from me too.
Victor Ahipene: I understand as well as you do that if you get them $1 million increase in it next 90 days, it doesn’t stop for the business after that. It’s not like they’re just sitting there even if they made nothing from you, increasing them $1 million in sales over the 90 days. They’re going, awesome. Well that should mean we should get an extra 4 million or 8 million over the year or whatever it may be. I mean, businesses that can afford that, the corporate industry.
They understand it. They’re like, “Okay, cool.” We’ll run this at cost neutral and then we’ll come out. That’s such awesome insight because I think that’s the biggest thing. You’ve obviously fine-tuned it and learned it from experience. If you haven’t been necessarily at the decision making level within a corporation, it’s just this like guessing game that you go, “Oh, how about $3,300 plus $150 a month?” Then that just— I know I spoken to a guy who, he was just lucky when he put his first tender into a company that his friend was on the decision thing and said, “You need to make this 10 times the amount or they won’t even look at it.” Same work just 10 times the amount because it was a fortune 500 company.
Anthony Kirby: There’s a level of seriousness that comes at that level. Incidentally, another good point to make here as well. When you’re selling to these people, you’ve got to think how they think. No one wants to like there’s a great sign that I got from one of my early mentors in the corporate world when I was working in corporate. He said to me, “Kirby, you have to put more people between you and the gun. You can’t be always the person that takes the bullet.” Now, that’s a bit self-serving of course.
It’s a bit cruel, but in a corporation that’s how they think. I knew that’s how they thought. So I said, look, “Don’t take this out of your sales budget for my fee. Take it out of your marketing budget because you’re going to spend it on advertising and what we’re going to do is improve your conversion so you’re not going to need to spend that money on ads.” Then they were like, “Oh that makes total sense.” So you’ve got to know how they think as well. You’ve got to think about how they think. Get inside their head.
Victor Ahipene: Yeah, that’s interesting. It’s really good. Because we’re obviously we’ve got time constraints and we’ll probably end up having another episode on this end, the more your life into the online space as well. In regards to running an effective workshop, because we’ve all been to a lot of them and what, I try and teach a lot of people, which I see is one of the most common mistakes with speakers, but obviously I think with work people running workshops as well is just trying to spew knowledge onto people and give them too much too soon.
How do you find that you overcome that? When you’re going into these corporations, how do you find, “Hey, this is the point that I need to be at to be able to go in and this is how much I need to be able to give them so they don’t leave and have 28 different things on the to do list.” And to make that effective?
Anthony Kirby: Yeah, great question. I’m going to give you the exact way to do this. Also the way that you pre-frame next steps as well. It’s kind of like book ending a workshop, we’ll call this. When you start, obviously you’re going to have a brief from whoever’s hired you to do the workshop. There’s an overarching theme that they’re going to want it to run with, whether that’s service, sales, whatever.
Now, when I start a workshop, and you can do this whether there’s three people or 3,000 people, if there’s less than 10, 15 people, I would go around the room at the start and this is a really good pre-frame. I’d say, “Hey, look, what is the outcome that I could give you by the end of today that would make it worthwhile for you to be here?” Because engagement is the biggest thing in a workshop especially if they’re being paid to be there and they’re not paying to be there. If they’d been forced to go essentially by their employer then you’re going to have half the room who are just like, “This is just another workshop. I’m just going to type my notes and forget them and put them in the drawer.”
So use all of that language and pre-frame it and say, “Look, I know that most workshops you go to, you’d get there and you’d be thinking, “Oh, this is just going to be another workshop. I don’t want it to be like that for you today.” What I want to know is I’m going to write it on a piece of paper and put it up on the wall so we can look at it all day. What’s the outcome you want today? Then go around the room if it’s a small room and ask the question so they’ll tell you what they need to have you deliver that day.
If it’s the larger room so obviously it’s not possible to go around one by one, give him a piece of paper and write it on a piece of paper and say, “Hey, there’s a piece of paper in front of you. I want you to write on that piece of paper the one thing that I could give you today that would make this day worthwhile.”
Now, what you do during the day is you looking at these sort of outcomes on the wall or on the whiteboard or if it’s a big bigger room, you’re looking at the outcomes on pieces of paper and you keep the money and or on your pie, on your presentation table. During the day you start to go to the people who’ve given to the answer they need and you say, “Hey Victor, you mentioned you needed to know how to run a great workshop. Have I delivered on that yet today?” Then Victor would go, “Yeah, actually you have Kirby.” I’d say, “Is there anything else I can cover for you on that before I cross it off the list?”
What you’re doing is you’re closing the psychological loop in their brain. They go, “Wow that was good. I actually got the thing I came for.” Now, the backend of that is you get to the end of the workshop. You make sure you’ve covered off everything on the list. Anything that you haven’t covered off for time constraints or for whatever reason you say, “Hey, can I set up a call with you one on one to go through this? Or can I set up a group call with the whole business to go through this?” Then that gets you the foot in the door for the next step.
Also, what you then do is you want to say, “I wanted to give me a piece of paper. I want you to write on that piece of paper on a scale of one to ten. One being the worst conference, worst workshop you’ve ever been to, 10 being absolutely unbelievable metal of your needs and you’d love to know more about how we could do things together so I can help you go further. Where would you score me?
If it’s less than a 10, I want to know what I could have to make it a 10.” That’s how I finished every workshop. The answers you get from that are great because you get feedback. Here’s the power of it, someone who awards you eight or above, you call them and you say, “Hey, thank you so much. I really appreciate that feedback.”
If it’s below that, you call them and you say, “Hey, I noticed that I didn’t deliver for you. What did I miss?” You touched, what do you want to do is you want to make sure you leave everyone better than you find them, right? You want everyone in that place the leave and sign, “That was the best speaker I’ve seen and I’ve never heard of that person before, but they just nailed that workshop.” You’ll do that if you know what they want to achieve, not what you want to achieve.
Victor Ahipene: I think I like just hearing that. I’m thinking, yeah, even if you’re running your own workshops, not for corporations, you start a free workshop or at a cheap workshop that’s a lead magnet in to half day or a full day into something bigger. You get everyone to write that off right on the board and you go, “Hey, I have, we ticked us off. Have we ticked this up? These other things I know we haven’t ticked everything off, but here’s what we’re actually going to be doing in this next workshop because some of these things are going to be in it, but we’re also going to be doing this as well.” Then yeah, people leave.
Anthony Kirby: They leave satisfied. They leave thinking, “Wow that was worth my time.” Not like, “Ah, I didn’t really get anything from that because the guy just spewed out all this crap that I didn’t need to know about.”
Victor Ahipene: I also realized that we got it—
Anthony Kirby: Exactly.
Victor Ahipene: That’s the big thing because if you finish with a point that’s not for them, but they got everything they needed before lunch. It’s not until you say, “Hey, did you get everything you needed or you say, I did. Thank you very much.”
Anthony Kirby: Yeah, exactly. It just works so well. That’s something that I came to that conclusion that that’s what I needed to do after I did a few workshops where it literally was me delivering on the message or the theme purely that had been told to deliver on and that way by switching it up, I knew that I was appealing to 100% of the room instead of 50% or 40% or 30%. That was a game changer in terms of the feedback. It was the game changer in terms of the testimonials. It meant that they were then going out into their respective markets, talking about the guy that no one’s ever heard of.
Victor Ahipene: Which is what you want because then you become—
Anthony Kirby: It’s the name of the game. The other thing as well mate. You go through that whole day and you tick off 20 items on their list, they’re going to say like, “This guy was able to answer everything we asked of him. He or she is the expert.” It’s instant credibility. There’s no way they can’t. One thing you can’t argue with, there’s three ways to, to teach the people. You can tell people how good you are, you’re going to have other people tell you how good you are or you can go and show them how good you are. The showing bit is that you can’t dispute the facts.
Victor Ahipene: That’s what I think is really, really interesting. I haven’t heard that before in the sense of be adding it to my toolkit as well. For people to just know that they’re going to leave, ideally with a 10 out of 10 and if they’re not, what is it to bring somebody up and get them from an eight to a ten and spend half an hour on the phone to them because what’s they going to do? You’re unsatisfied or not 100% satisfied customers that you turn into a satisfied one or going to be your raving fans.
Because they go, “That person was actually like—” It wasn’t that they couldn’t answer my question. They just didn’t have time or fit into all of that. Those are amazing tips. Like I say, a lot of people, there’s no one really out there showing people how to get into this corporate space or being able to position themselves. I know that’s a lot of what you do and what you’re helping coaches because part of it, which we haven’t even delved into is positioning yourself.
I’ve got an episode further back where we talk about the other different ways that you can you can position yourself, but all of that kind of ties up. It’s not like you just ring up somebody and you’re like, “Hey, let me come and pitch you.” You’ve still got to have that level. What I always say to people is the event organizer or the decision maker within a business is taking a risk and it’s on them. If you come in and under deliver, it’s a reflection on them.
If you come in and over deliver, it’s a reflection on them so they want the latter. So the more things that you can do to diffuse that and so that you’re like, “Oh, okay, you’ve got a book or cool, you’ve spoken all around the world or you’ve worked at companies bigger than us.” Whatever it may be. You’ve been in the media. I’ve seen you on TV. You’ve got a podcast.
All of these kind of positioning markers. They help you get in that door, but then all of this other stuff. I haven’t met anybody who’s even shared what you’ve shared about this kind of behind closed doors on what happens in the corporate realm because I think a lot of people were out there doing it as well. Then there’s other people wanting to do it and they’re doing so many things wrong.
Anthony Kirby: Let me leave you with one last tip because this is super important too. I know I’m probably going over time, but it’s worth knowing this. I want you to split your market into three, like whoever it is that you serve, whether it’s corporates, individuals, whatever. Split into three. The top of the market, let’s use technology companies. That’s a good example because everyone knows them.
The top of the market, the top third of the market would be Google, Facebook, and all those kinds of companies. Then there’d be a low third, bottom third would be Myspace for example. No one uses anymore, but it’s still around kind of. It’s in the shadows and then you’ve got that middle third. Now the middle thirds, the powerful third because they want to be in the top third.
They’ve been in the bottom third and they know it feels like to be there so they’ve got the most hunger to change. You go after your market like that. You split it into three and you’re so right. Who are the third of the market who want change? Not the people who are already at the top because they’re the hardest to sell to and everyone’s chasing them.
Go after the people who no one really knows or no one really cares about and go in and promise and deliver on the expectations that you set for them and they will love you for life. They will pay anything you want to be paid. They will send you to places that you could never imagine. That’s how you approach your market.
Victor Ahipene: It’s brilliant. Because I mean it’s kind of even a few take it from the smaller side of things. It’s like, do you go chasing after the solopreneur insurance broker or do you chase the guy with a company of 20 or do you chase ING? The company with a hundred or do you chase the company with 100,000? You get the one with a hundred and you take them to a thousand staff and you’re still going to be there for a long for the ride if they get down to a thousand so brilliant.
Brilliant points. Oh, there was one other question that I wanted to delve into. Your Trojan horse, a lot of other speakers, a lot of trainers that I speak to kind of have a Trojan horse in the sense that yes, you can go in there and run a workshop. A lot of people might use their workshop as the Trojan horse to then be able to offer other services afterwards or package on with them. What are some of yours that you would suggest or easy things that you could add on to or pitch after the fact?
Anthony Kirby: The easiest thing to pitch is follow-up training. Assuming that we’re talking on workshops here. Workshops are very much outcome-based generally. Let’s say the outcome is more revenue. You want to say to the owners of the business or the individuals, “Hi, look the workshops one day. The habits build over time so let me come and give you the habits.
Let me instill the habits, but more important than the habits is the accountability. You’re too busy running the business. Let me run your people. We could come in and be that voice. Let me be the white coat on the Colgate toothpaste advert to use the example.” Because in most cases the bosses told them everything that you’re going to teach them at the workshop, but they’re just not listening anymore because they’ve heard it every week at the sales meeting.
You’re going in there with the white coat on as the expert, you blow their mind and then you follow them up every week or every two weeks for three months. And suddenly you’ve instilled the habit and you’ve instilled the accountability and you can’t file the result then. That’s easiest thing to pitch. That’s exactly how I do it.
Victor Ahipene: Is that how you package it into a 90 day rather than a two day offering?
Anthony Kirby: Yeah. That’s where you get the value and also gives you continuity of work. At the end of the 90 days, they would see results too. It’s easy conversation to say, “Hey, do you want to keep going for another 90 days with accountability coaching or accountability training?” It’s super easy for them to say yes because you’re already doing it.
Victor Ahipene: Yeah and now people getting results. That’s absolutely awesome. I’ve known Kirby for a while now. I know that all the knowledge is just shared is just kind of the tip of the iceberg and what he knows in the online realm and the online spaces probably even deeper than what you’ve heard here.
I know that you’ve just recently launched an online mastermind for people who may have found this valuable. They’re going to, if they’re wanting to either do more of the workshop space or add another leg to their business or develop their online branding and things like that, they can do that. Do you want to tell people completely about that and where they can go to find out a little bit more?
Anthony Kirby: Yeah, sure. Well, first of all, let me say that the starting point for that in a circle I call it, which is like coaching and training with me. The starting point for that is an online program called The Expert Blueprint. That is actually free of charge. You can go to theexpertblueprint.com and get the whole online course for free. There’s 50 something lessons in there.
Now, there’s Facebook ads, training, webinar training, event training, positioning training, social media content training. Everything you need to take yourself from where you are now as an unknown quantity to someone who’s fully booked and has a calendar full of awesome clients is in that online course. That’s completely free. You can grab that right now. No need to talk to me about that. No don’t need to spend a cent. People who go through that though, generally some of them would say, “I want more support.” If you do, then the inner circle is probably the right call.
That’s just an annual membership to online mentoring, I suppose we’d call it, where we meet twice a week and talk about what’s going to be business and we keep you accountable and keep you on the right track and moving in the right direction with your sales funnels and your automation and everything that’s attached to sales and marketing gets thrown in the mix there for a discussion every week.
Victor Ahipene: Well that’s awesome. I will link that plus some other links to find Kirby or over the inter webs at a Public Speaking Blueprint. We’re all about blueprints here dot com and where you can find that. You can find the show notes, everything we’ve talked about because I’m sure there’ll be some things that you want to go back if you’re on the move and jot a lot of those things down. There’ll be in the show notes. Kirby, always awesome catching up with you and chatting. It’s awesome that we can even record it and share it out to the world to offer a better value. Thanks mate. Really appreciate it.
Anthony Kirby: Yeah, no worries. Thanks for having me. See you guys.
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