In this final episode Hideo shares his reasons for leaving the Unification and all he lost—and gained—when he left.

TRANSCRIPT

Hideo Higashibaba [00:00:01] Thanks for listening to Growing Up Moonie. Just a heads up for our listeners, this episode includes mention of mental health crisis, rape, family abuse, death, hospitalization, homophobia, and child abuse. Please take care of yourself as you listen. And now the final episode of Growing Up Moonie.

News Announcer [00:00:21] A decade ago, the Reverend Sun Myung Moon was accused of controlling the minds of young people creating so-called Moonies.

News Announcer [00:00:28] So called Moonies, followers of the Reverend Sun Myung Moon, head of the Unification Church, who became well-known in the early 80s for his mass wedding ceremonies.

Interpreter [00:00:36] Do you pledge to establish an eternal family with which God can be happy.

Crowd [00:00:44] Yes!

Interpreter [00:00:45] It. We are talking about absolute fidelity here. If anybody deviates from this. God. You may be about to go.

News Announcer [00:00:55] But the church has a different plan for the second generation.

2nd Gen [00:00:58] I felt like we weren't equipped for the world. You know we aren't just like this bubble.

2nd Gen [00:01:03] To me it sounds culty. I know it's what brought our parents to church but it's not what you see in the church.

2nd Gen [00:01:08] Even if I'm not doing everything that they want me to do or I don't believe everything that they believe we still have this like line that connects us.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:01:20] My name is Hideo Higashi Baba. I am queer, brown and transgender. I like reading, watching TV, swimming, and hiking, and hanging out with my dog Stanley. And oh yeah I grew up in a cult. This is Growing Up Moonie, stories of people who grew up in the Unification Church, Also known as the Moonies. And for this last episode I wanted to tell my story.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:01:48] For the most part before I left, I was a really good Moonie. When I was 18 I told my parents I wanted an arranged marriage just like they got. I read the sacred texts, I didn't date or smoke or drink. I got good grades and honored my father and mother. At church, I was taught the Divine Principle the sacred teachings of the church. I learned that the source of all sin was sex that I had to save my virginity for my husband. In my heart I knew what the founder Sun Myung Moon told us about the world was right and it was my job to protect myself from anything that would contradict that.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:02:30] I am my parent's third child out of four. There are my two older sisters than me than my younger sister. Before I was born my father Shinichi prayed and prayed for a boy but all he got was another kid with a vagina. He doesn't know that I'm transgender. I'm pretty sure he would not be happy to find out.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:02:51] My parents had four children in six years, and from the moment we were born we were told we were special. Unlike my classmates, their parents, the people we saw out in the world, we didn't have Original Sin and that meant we were better than everyone else. It also meant that we had to be better. Better behaved, better in school, more modest, discreet, and generous. We were literally born to save the world from Satan, to reunite humanity with God. And we could not fuck that up.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:03:27] But there's something else. I grew up in an abusive family. My mom Andrea would fly into rages and yell at us until she was hoarse. She also hit us. My dad Shinichi did too. You might not know that much about abusive or co-dependent family structures; in my family, we were raised to take care of Andrea. Our needs came second. No matter how much she yelled at us or hit us. Our job was to make sure she felt OK. How we felt didn't matter. As a kid I tried not to cry when she hit me but it wasn't because I was tough. It was because I didn't want to make her feel bad for what she was doing. This co-dependent relationship and isolation from the outside world meant that our relationships with the church were inextricable from our relationship with Andrea. You couldn't get one without the other. Doing things Andrea didn't like weren't just annoying to her. She made it clear that what you were doing was a sin. Like if we tried to run away when she wanted to yell at us or hit us that was disrespecting our elders, against God's instruction to honor our father and mother. She told me that she hit us because she saw a defiance, a kind of sin in our eyes. She could tell Satan was working in us and she had to beat him out.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:04:57] I was discouraged from having friends and I wasn't invited to a lot of sleepovers or parties. So I spent a lot of time at home. At the time. I didn't think there was anything wrong with it. In fact I thought it was all a good thing. My family meant everything to me. They were more important than my feelings, my dreams, or anything I wanted, and that was completely normal. Sun Myung Moon told us to honor our father and mother that the family was where the love of God resides. And I believed him.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:05:34] It's not that I wasn't curious or didn't have my doubts. I was told that if something didn't make sense it was because I didn't have enough faith. I just had to pray about it and God would provide me the answers. Having a different opinion or being something other than what was expected of me was not an option. My job was to prepare myself to be married to get blessed. No one asked me what I wanted because no one cared. If I contradicted my parents or the church I would be yelled at or hit. So I developed a deep denial about everything. I learned again and again to ignore my feelings, ignore my body and my instincts. So the arranged marriage, the homophobia, the self-loathing, it all seemed perfectly normal to me. When my extended family who are not in the church made fun of me for my faith I defended the church and my parents. I'm still baffled by why my grandparents aunts and uncles thought it would be funny to tease a seven year old about their beliefs. I certainly didn't have any say in the matter.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:06:45] Anyway, my immediate family was controlling but I was never discouraged from learning or traveling. When I wanted to go to a tiny liberal arts college in Ohio, they supported me, but I wonder if they would have if they knew how much it would change me. In college, I met all kinds of people and it got harder and harder to maintain the bigotry I was raised with. I also started crushing on a boy almost immediately and that terrified me. I had already promised myself to the blessing and with this crush I felt like I was betraying that promise. I pushed my feelings for this person down as hard as I could and eventually I got over it. So I thought I knew what to do when another boy at school named Ian after me out a couple years later. I told him, no I don't date, but Ian was different. I don't mean that he was particularly nice or interesting or even good looking. What made Ian special was that he did not go away when I told him I wasn't interested. He just kept hanging around saying all he wanted to do was spend time with me, that he just liked talking to me, yada yada. All the things a naive and inexperienced person like me wanted to hear. And it just felt so nice to be liked and my sister had married someone outside the church. By that point it just didn't seem that bad to go out with a non-Moonie.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:08:17] When we did eventually start dating it was weird and awkward and embarrassing like so many first boyfriends are. Now, I wouldn't even consider it a relationship. But at the time I did. Shortly after we started dating, I left for an internship and most of our relationship was over the phone. I'm taking the time to tell you this embarrassing story about Ian because we got into a fight that shattered my faith which is where I started the story when Jenn from the first episode of this podcast asked me why I left the church.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:08:52] I got a huge theological argument with my boyfriend at the time who was Jewish and he basically was like, 'why do you believe this?' And it took like three days worth of arguing with him about this particular piece of scripture, because I was like, I don't know for me, you know, for example the fall of Adam and Eve, like that's for me at the time was like this is inherently true and this is something that I can believe happened and he was like, 'well I just think that some people made it up, like some people made up the story as a way to make women feel bad and like to oppress women. And I never literally never thought about it like that.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:09:26] We fought about the anti-Semitism of the Bible and Christianity and I defended it. It was a three day long argument over the phone, him back at school, I was back at home on break by that point. It was just a total mess. But finally, I sent a message apologizing. I said that if my beliefs were oppressive and anti-Semitic then I would have to change what I believed. I had no idea how much that single text would change my life.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:09:57] I don't think he knew that he was challenging...it wasn't like an intellectual exercise for me, like, we were having an argument over like my entire belief system. Like how I made sense of the world and why the color blue was the way it was and why was born and like it was really existential and I don't think he understood that it was. And kind of spiraled out of control like that.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:10:24] Throughout this three day shitshow I told my sisters I'd been fighting with Ian but not what it was about exactly. I told them about the apology but not what it said. They did not like that. My sister Anshin cornered me and demanded details. She said I shouldn't change for anyone especially a boy. She was so angry and I knew I had somehow betrayed my faith but I couldn't take it back. And I didn't want to.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:10:59] Later that day I heard my older sisters talking in the kitchen. It sounded serious. So I asked them what was going on. Anshin told me that our mother Andrea had been brutally raped when she was 16. My sister was the first person Andrea had told in 40 years.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:11:19] The secret hit me like a punch to the gut. Like 100 punches. I couldn't speak. All I could think about was my mum as a 16 year old girl covered in bruises all alone. Then I thought about her 30 year miserable marriage with a man who she hated, who hated her. I thought about the effort they put into having children and how scary and traumatic that must have been for her.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:11:48] And for the first time in my life I doubted God and Sun Myung Moon, the True Father of the movement. I didn't understand why God would put my mother in such an unhappy marriage knowing what he did about my mother's past. All my doubts, the fighting with Ian, all came to a head and in that single moment my faith was gone. I couldn't believe any of it anymore.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:12:17] That night I prayed for the last time. I couldn't sleep so I went to one of my favorite spots, the top of a hill way out near the river. The moonlight sparkled on the snow and I shivered in my puffy winter coat. I asked God for forgiveness and begged for understanding. I felt God in my heart, telling me that understanding would come with time. I just had to have faith. Even if I didn't understand now, I would one day. I drove home and fell into a deep sleep. I woke up the next morning and started screaming. And I couldn't stop.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:13:01] When I think about it, over the last couple of years, I think there were hairline fractures in my beliefs.

Jenn [00:13:08] OK.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:13:08] Like over the years. You know, one of them that I think about was when they were organizing protests against gay marriage at the State House when Massachusetts was about to be the first state to pass gay marriage, or one of the first states. And that just didn't make sense to me. Like, if God was love and we were supposed to love everyone we wanted everyone to be in the church, then like how would going to tell people that they couldn't have what they wanted going make them like us. Like, they're not going to like us after, that they're not going to want to join the church.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:13:39] No one in my family ever went to those protests. But when I asked Andrea about it she said, sometimes you just have to do what's right. And that didn't seem like a good enough answer. But I was scared of my mom. Challenging her usually meant I'd get yelled at or hit. Questioning adults was disrespectful, against God's Commandment to honor thy father and mother. If I didn't get something I was told to pray so I assumed I didn't get it because I was too young or stupid to understand.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:14:15] In the winter of 2014, I got suicidally depressed and what I really needed was a hospital but my family doesn't believe in modern medicine and they didn't want me to go to a psychiatrist. So, I was repeatedly telling them that I was going to kill myself, and they were basically like, please don't do that. I was going to a therapist but I didn't really think it was going to be enough and I was worried. So I moved in with my best friend's parents.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:14:45] Cleo was my best friend. We'd met in college. She was worried about me and saw how awful my family was, even when I couldn't. So she asked her parents to take me in and they did. They saved my life.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:14:59] I moved to Arizona and for whatever reason when I got there I stopped talking to my family. I didn't answer texts I didn't answer phone calls I didn't answer emails and of course they got worried and the longer it was the nastier the emails got because they got so, I think just because they got so worried.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:15:21] I stopped answering emails and phone calls because I felt like I was going to kill myself. I wasn't intentionally setting a boundary. I didn't have any keen insight about the nature of abusive families. All I knew was that seeing messages from my family made me feel worse.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:15:47] I had to move to the other side of the country to realize I didn't know why I believed anything I believed. My faith was gone. I had to figure out who I was without it. It seemed like every opinion or preference I'd ever had was handed to me by my family. Did I like music or did I just say I did because my sisters did? Did I actually think gay people were sick and evil? Was I really on the fence about whether or not birth control was OK? I couldn't tell where I ended and my family began. I had to go back and re-evaluate everything I ever believed or knew about myself.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:16:31] The church, my faith, my family, gave my life purpose. My mother taught me the Divine Principle so I didn't have to think for myself. It explained everything, why the sky was blue, why I was born. It imbued everything in my life with meaning. And overnight that meaning was gone.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:16:55] For three months in Arizona I spent every waking hour wishing I was dead. I fantasized about killing myself hurting myself. I went to bed hoping I would die in my sleep. I cried when I woke up, realizing I'd survive the night. But with my friends parents I got the help my family couldn't, or maybe wouldn't, get me. I was in constant crisis, but I was alive. I didn't trust anyone. I felt like my family had lied to me for 20 years controlling me into the person they wanted. My whole life I was actively discouraged from trusting my own feelings my own instincts. I was told that if something didn't make sense to me it was my fault for lacking faith. I was unbelievably angry.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:17:49] I told Cleo all this. I was living with her parents and I told them to but Cleo was the only person I trusted. I was on medical leave from college but she was still at school and Ian was studying abroad and mostly ignoring my emails. It was a lot of pressure for Cleo but I didn't realize it was too much until it was too late.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:18:17] After a term away from school I decided I was ready to go back. What followed was a cascade of terrible events that are almost ridiculous in hindsight. The week before I left Arizona my grandma died. I decided to not go to the funeral. Within an hour of being back on campus Ian broke up with me and I went to the hospital for a week. Then Cleo and I had a fight and she didn't speak to me or acknowledge my existence for nine months. Almost all my friends kind of disappeared, stopped talking to me or asking me how I was. I think they either chose Cleo or couldn't handle being around a suicidally depressed person all the time. Or maybe they just didn't know what to do so they did nothing. For most of 2015 it was all I could do to stay alive and in school. I dragged myself to classes forced myself to eat and do laundry. I took long breaks from homework to lie on the floor of my room in abject misery. I cut myself. I went to seven hours of therapy a week. I realized I was gay.

Ally Hills singing [00:19:30] We're all the same. We just want to belong, so let me explain in the form of a song...

Hideo Higashibaba [00:19:34] It took months but eventually I figured out that Cleo and I had been more than friends. More even, than best friends. I'd spent the last six months fighting like hell to be myself, without my family or faith. I combed through every thought belief or preference I'd ever had, asking myself if it came from me or my family and the church. It made sense that I had to re-evaluate this part of me too.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:20:06] At first the realization I was gay filled me with dread. It made the likelihood of ever reconciling with my family feel very far away. But once I accepted it I was elated. It felt like I'd hit the jackpot of self realization. It was the best and happiest thing that had ever happened to me. I couldn't stop talking about it, honestly, I still can't. I told anyone who would listen and most of them were not surprised. Most of them thought Cleo and I had dated for two years, which I guess we had even if neither of us realized.

Ally Hills singing [00:20:43] Who ever sent you this told me to say give you a hug and kiss and also wanted you to know they're gay.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:20:52] In the two months after I came out I was so happy. My life was still a shambles and I still had no friends. I still hadn't seen or spoken with my family in months but I was gay and that was awesome.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:21:13] Later that year my sister Anshin had her third baby and I went home to meet her and get some of my stuff. I stayed with friends and went home to visit a couple times. I wasn't gonna tell Andrea I was gay, but old habits die hard and when she demanded one-on-one time with me it all came spilling out. She said, 'you know how I feel about that kind of thing.' Later she emailed me saying she loved me no matter what. That her prayers for me were for my health and for my health only. Anshin, on the other hand, wanted me to know that she was not homophobic, but she was pretty sure I had decided to be gay. She was mad at me, but it was for other reasons not because I was gay.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:21:59] I don't know what I expected. Sun Myung Moon the leader of the church once described gay people as,'shit eating dogs.' In the church there was nothing more Satanic than homosexuality. I guess I thought my family might make an exception for me. You know, their kid. Maybe if it was just the 'gay thing' my family could have adjusted. But by the time I came out, our relationship was beyond repair. I couldn't apologize for ignoring them for months and they could not or would not understand why I did.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:22:43] Over months I slowly stabilized and got stronger. I worked to keep myself in school and eventually I graduated summa cum laude only six months later than my classmates. In the beginning of 2017 I got an internship in public radio and moved to Chicago. I started dating a boy. And I still could not believe how alone I felt. I told Katie about that feeling.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:23:10] Listening to you talk about the church thing and you know the things that you want the things that you value and the things that people in the church value I just feel so isolated from all that and I feel so unwanted in all that and I just don't belong there at all.

Katie [00:23:30] And also hard, there's so many grey areas. This makes it so difficult.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:23:36]  I just really don't belong there at all. And I really don't feel like there's never been a time where I really felt like oh like this is where I'm supposed to be this is where I belong. And it's just hard to hear about, like this project has been super great but it's been really difficult you know because most people are most people are like somewhere between you and me like I'm 100 percent out. Really angry just super pissed at all times and you're going to the fucking blessing in September which is like the ultimate prize, right? And most people are like in the middle, most who I've talked to are dating other people, not in the church.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:24:22] I feel like the closer I get to being who I am by coming out as gay and coming out as gender nonconforming, like, the further I get away from the people who raised me and the further I get away from the Church and the less and less I wanted. That stuff would not go down at all. There is no shred of doctrine I could justify my existence at this point.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:24:50] I'm still learning to live in this reality, in a world without my family or faith or meaning, where people use facts and science to explain the world. Where everything is really complicated and there are no clear answers. Where I am responsible for my own happiness. Growing up in a cult and abusive family there were huge swaths of my personality that just didn't develop. They didn't have to because the beliefs of the church just filled it all in. Now I have to fill it all in on my own. I have to discover and develop my own personality from the ground up.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:25:39] It's hard to accept that the trauma of my family and the crazy bullshit from the church will always be with me. It's hard to accept that this will always be painful. But accepting that it's shitty and heartbreaking feels good. It feels like progress. And I've learned that you can't avoid pain. All you can do is find people in your life who see you who see all of you and love you enough to witness your struggle without trying to fix it or fix you or pretend that it's not just totally awful and shitty. People who text you back, cheer you, on hold you when you cry. It has taken me years, but I am slowly beginning to believe that I deserve to have people like that in my life. That I deserve to be free.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:27:03] This has been Growing Up Moonie a podcast about the children of the Unification Church, it's second generation. If you've made it this far and listened to even some of these episodes I am so grateful. A lot of love and work and tears went into this project and I am honored that you took the time to listen. I'd like to thank all my guests Jenn, Teruko, and Katie for sharing their stories with me and the world. This episode was written and produced by me, edited by Quinn Myers, music by Blue Dot Sessions Kai Engel and Alan Spiljak. The Coming Out Song is by Ally Hills.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:27:39] Thank you to all the people who have loved and supported me throughout this project. First my sweet sausage dog Stanley my best friend and ever present companion. Also human beings: Lewis Wallace and Billy Dee for giving me a home and so much more, Noa Nessim and Cucumber the cat for helping me make a home. Chris Kugler for composing the music for the trailer, Katherine Kavanaugh for designing our beautiful logo, Elecia Harvey-Spain for truly living out disability justice, Kate Bennett for her can-do, how-can-I-help attitude, WUNC  for the use of their studio, Juliet Fromholt for logistical support and overall cheerleading. And every person I met in the last two and a half years who told me this was a good idea and I should keep going.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:28:23] And lastly a very big thank you to Quinn Myers my creative and tireless editor who dedicated a year of his life to this project, listening to my doubts and worries and helping me make this dream come true. If anyone needs a talented skilled audio producer call me! Haha, then call Quinn. We both need the work. I'm Hideo Higashibaba. Thanks for listening.

Katie and Hideo talk about Katie’s recent marriage to another second generation, the struggle to live the values of the church, and the innate need for belonging.

TRANSCRIPT

News Announcer [00:00:01] A decade ago, the Reverend Sun Myung Moon was accused of controlling the minds of young people creating so-called Moonies

News Announcer [00:00:08] So-called Moonies, followers of the Reverend Sun Myung Moon, head of the Unification Church, who became well-known in the early 80s for his mass wedding ceremonies.

Interpreter [00:00:16] Do you pledge to establish an eternal family with which God can be happy.

Crowd [00:00:25] Yes!

Interpreter [00:00:25] We are talking about absolute fidelity here. If anybody deviates from this God-given principle, they are bound to hell.

News Announcer [00:00:35] But the church has a different plan for the second generation.

2nd Gen [00:00:38] I felt like we weren't equipped for the world. You know, we aren't just like this bubble.

2nd Gen [00:00:43] To me it sounds culty. I know it's what brought our parents to church but it's not what keeps me in the church.

2nd Gen [00:00:48] Even if I'm not doing everything that they want me to do or I don't believe everything that they believe, we still have this like line that connects us.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:01:00] My name is Hideo Higashibaba until four years ago. I was a part of a cult called the Unification Church. You might know them as the Moonies. This is Growing Up Moonie, stories of people who grew up in the church like I did. One of the only Moonies I still talk to is my friend Katie. We've known each other since we were babies. Her mum took care of me when my mum was a full-time missionary. Katie is a year older than me, and we were never very close, but we tried to look out for each other at workshops and church camp. After high school we lost touch and the next time we saw each other was in our early 20s in Japan. I was in Tokyo for an internship and she was visiting family nearby.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:01:44] We met at a cafe can caught up. It had been a tough few years for Katie. She had struggled with her health, her brother had left the church and wasn't talking to anyone in his family, and her parents had been looking for a match for her for years. She got her hopes up with each person and each time it didn't work out in money matching everyone both the kids and the parents have a say. Katie had been rejected both by potential matches and his parents and that hurt.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:02:17] After Tokyo we stayed in touch over Facebook and texts. We spoke in the summer of 2017 for this project and by that time Katie had some big news.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:02:27] You look really sleepy are you OK?

Katie [00:02:30] Oh no, I'm fine. I just got back last night from Iowa.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:02:34] Oh, what were you doing in Iowa?

Katie [00:02:36] I was seeing Kenny.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:02:38] Kenny is Katie's husband now. When Katie and I talked they were about to go to Chun Pyung in South Korea to be married along with 4,000 couples. It's weird, but even though we were bombarded with the matching and blessing our whole lives, neither I nor any of my siblings went through the process. I actually didn't know very much about how it works. So I asked Katie what it's been like for her.

Katie [00:03:02] I started when I was 20 and the first guy was four months and we got really close to getting engaged. That one was a good relationship, but definitely not what I am experiencing now with the relationship I'm in right now. It's a totally different dimension. With that one it was more about you know doing what your parents want, like going into the process because you know it's the right thing to do and it's part of the church and you know all that stuff. And I feel like a lot of the relationships I went through was sort of on that dimension. I've been through five before Kenny and I feel like I was taking on that other perspective kind of thing where you like in it, but you're not in it, you know, like your heart isn't fully in it.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:03:56] When we were younger the founder of the church, Moon, still arranged marriages in what were called matching ceremonies. That's how most first generation were married. There was also something called 'parents matching' where many parents would find a spouse for their kid, and then there was a variation on that where second gen would find someone on their own and ask their parents permission. The process has modernized over the years. There's a website now like a Match.com for Moonies.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:04:26] Do most people find their matches through their parents through the website?

Katie [00:04:31] No. These days people are actually like finding other people they think would be good matches and then having their parents, like talking to their parents about it and seeing what their parents say so that the kids are very much involved these days. Just because there's been so many mistakes and so many break ups and so many matches that broke and stuff and it's always really hard for the kid. So parents see that and they don't want definitely kids, so they're a little more loose these days. There are people who are getting blessed to people you know who are first gen outside the movement and they go to the blessing and there are people find each other like me and Kenny except not through our parents but through just like mutual friends or just they themselves met up and thought they would be a good match because they felt very connected.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:05:24] Are they even holding meetings anymore?

Katie [00:05:26] No they're not. It just got weird. At one point they were matching people based off their thumbs.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:05:35] You heard that right. Their thumbs. Moon died a few years ago and his wife Hak Ja Han took over, but she did it a little differently than her husband. Hak Ja Han had men and women stand on each side of the room. Then she told everyone to fold their hands like they were praying. Then the women were told to cross the room to find someone with a matching thumb on top. But no women were moving, so they had the men choose instead. Yeah, that's when it got weird. Katie's family really wanted her to be blessed to another second gen. I think there was extra pressure to marry her off because she was the first child. Originally, she and Kenny chatted for a few months and it was going well. Then they got into a fight and Katie broke it off. But two years later...

Hideo Higashibaba [00:06:26] He actually texted me out of the blue, even though I said never contacted me again. He texted me out of the blue and he said like there's so many things that I think could work out about us and things that I feel like I still think about and it's true. Like for me the whole relationship, the first time was amazing. I felt so connected to him...like it's interesting like when you meet someone and you feel like it's so different from any other person you've been with. And it just feels right. It's kind of like my last attempt to keep my mother involved in the process and to show her that you know all her attempts weren't in vain. So he was actually kind of my last chance, after him I was actually kind of thinking about dating other people and not really being churchy. So anyway it's a weird dynamic but I'm here, I'm in this life, and it's working out really well right now. So that's all I'm really grateful for.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:07:37] Katie is a second generation, a Blessed Child born without original sin. The entire purpose of her life, for her entire life, was to marry another blessed child and have a family with him. To do something or be someone else felt impossible. But after spending most of her 20s looking for a match she was about to give up, try dating. She told Kenny to never contact her again, but he ignored her and they kept talking and she fell in love and found a reason to stay. She made the choice to stay. As children we were told to beware of the temptations of Satan, of outsiders. We had to protect ourselves and our purity. Katie says she worked so hard to be unattractive it just seemed impossible for someone to have a crush on her.

Katie [00:08:31] If a guy was attracted to me I never knew. Because one thing, I gained a lot of weight. I was very smelly. I just never never thought that anyone would like me because I tried so hard not to let people like me so if there was someone who did like me it surprised me. It was like I was watching the world from a different perspective, like I wasn't really part of it. But I wasn't really not a part of it. If that makes sense?  I spent a lot of time in my house not really hanging out with people, just kind of on my own watching TV a lot. And I've watched the TV and definitely wanted to kiss or wanted to make out or wanted to like, really try those things and really, you know, experiment I guess? Curiosity, all that stuff, but I just never really felt like I was missing out on anything because...I feel like sometimes I'm from a different world, one where I'm and doing the right things because I know in my heart that that's based off my values.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:09:37] I heard this a lot when I was a Moonie. I even said it. Things like, I don't need friends or I'm not interested in dating because romance before marriage doesn't live up to my values. 'Living up to my values' was like a place holder for how I actually felt which was miserable and lonely. And for Katie...

Katie [00:09:58] It's definitely made me feel isolated and lonely for sure but I don't feel like I had some support from other BCs too like I feel so much support from them. And even going to church every week I felt like I could be myself more, I felt like I was supported more. Most of my friends are BC because, you know, 'the outside secular world, you don't want to be friends with them' kind of thing. I had my community and I think that really helped me pull through the loneliness and isolation.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:10:35] Growing up, Katie's parents weren't around much. Like most Moonies, they worked a lot. Many of the first generation didn't finish college and spent most of their 20s and 30s as full time missionaries which made it hard to find good paying work to support a family. So a lot of church members work for companies owned by the church. My dad works for a church owned business so does Katie's mom. Katie's parents also had a flower shop they worked at on weekends. Her brother was going through his own stuff so Katie spent a lot of time alone.

Katie [00:11:09] You could definitely feel that they were trying. They were trying really hard. They just wanted to do the right thing. Sometimes you didn't really found my parents but they were there which is the weird part.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:11:19] Without support from her parents Katie's sole refuge became the church community. More than the teachings or the rituals, it was the people that held her up, held her together. So she was heartbroken when her brother left and stopped talking with his family. I also left and no longer speak with my family and it's hard for Katie to not think of her brother when we're talking. Her grief is so near the surface.

Katie [00:11:48] And the thing is I don't care about doctrine or dogma. I don't really care for it if it splits up people that you love, people that, you know, you care about, people who are...for some people people in their family and it just hurts me that he's he just he's hurting because see he just strongly doesn't believe in the dogma and because of that that led to breaking off his relationship with us and I just don't believe in the dogma like that. I don't believe in a doctrine like that.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:12:23] Oh Katie, it's probably more complicated than.

Katie [00:12:26] Yeah.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:12:28] It's all the more frustrating for Katie because she doesn't believe some of the church's most important teachings.

Katie [00:12:35] I don't believe in True Parents being the Messiah. I don't really. It's not really something I strongly believe in. I mean I thought they brought really important ideas that the world could really benefit from. I'm here because of the community rather than because, you know, True Parents and they'll save the world from evil in return all our minds the Original Mind and all that stuff, because to me it sounds culty. It sounds very untrue. It sounds very difficult to fathom and very out there. I know it's what brought our parents to the church but it's not what keeps me in the church.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:13:18] Katie's found so much love and belonging in the church, maybe it's hard for her to imagine that it's not the same for other people. And now she's married to Kenny. When we spoke just a few weeks before they got blessed she sounded so happy and content.

Katie [00:13:35] It's just the connection is so magnetic and so like strong and I know it's not really like 'parent's matching,' it's not really churchy or not very by the books but it just works and is still working and I see it working for the rest of my life.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:13:56] Are you in love with him?

Katie [00:13:57] I am so in love with him. I am head over heels in love with him and it has been from the beginning.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:14:02] I mean did you did you expect that for yourself when you thought about this when you were young.

Katie [00:14:09] Not at all. For me I was just like a duty like I had to do because my parents wanted me to do it and I did it because it's like it's something I've been saving up for my whole life and it's just a bonus that I fell in love with him. Because with my parents it was over time that they fell in love with each other. It wasn't at the beginning but their love grew and actually it was what keeps them together I guess. So that's what I'm worried about is just like if if this magnetism and this infatuation phase that we're in right now when it ends will we be able to continue it. On his side, I mean, I know for myself that I committed I'm going to work through anything to be with him anyway. We'll see. It's in the future.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:15:03] And that future got way harder than Katie imagined. About a year into her marriage Katie had a realization about the church: the overwork and fundraising and constant guilt weren't necessary. The church wasn't everything it said it was. Katie's doubts about the True Parents, the doctrine and practices of the church all came to a head and she had to take a mental step back. And even though Katie loves the church and the community she's struggled with loneliness and isolation.

Katie [00:15:35] For me the hardest thing about being in the church, and just even being half-Asian, is that that I can't talk about it with other people because they don't understand. Like they'll never fully understand my experience. And the fact that you're so open about it and the fact that you can talk to other people about it is so amazing for me to hear that from you and that you're so open with other people because I think and I'm kind of jealous.

Katie [00:16:03] I wish I could be more open but I feel...for me the worst thing for me in the world is that if someone rejects me. And I can't do that. I can't fathom the idea that someone would reject me because it's part of who I am and I realize it's very difficult to take.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:16:28] The Unification Church is a cult that isolates its members by telling them to fear the outside world. And Katie was born into that fear. If she's rejected from the church she will lose everything; her community, her friends, her family. So she hides parts of herself to avoid rejection. She's not the only recently married, half-Asian, religious person in the world or even in her city. But she only feels safe with other Moonies. People outside the faith are scary to her, not trustworthy. She expects them to have an ulterior motive. She knows the church is weird but she says Moonies are just more pure.

Katie [00:17:09] I know this sounds culty but just feels like pure in the sense that we know we're not supposed to be dating so we know that even if we do have an attraction it's not something that we act on immediately. It's more about like knowing that that person is for someone else and then treating them just as a friend or just like a sibling or something and then you just show real close to them and realize that you know it's not going to go further than that.

Katie [00:17:37] Another thing too is I notice like, people they expect something in return instead of just giving because they want to give. People are always like kind of protecting themselves because they feel like no other person can be a complete monster. And I just never really thought that from this community I don't feel as judged. I don't feel as as much of a stranger as more of a part of their family kind of. I don't know it's just this whole bond that I feel with them is what keeps me going. I can't imagine myself leaving the church because if I left the church it would be leaving that bond and that feeling like that I'm home in that part of this family and I'm part of something bigger.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:18:26] But with her new realization Katie doesn't want to just believe whatever she's told. She worries about being seen as brainwashed or delusional. We recently started emailing back and forth and I asked if she's still considered herself a church member. This is my friend, also named Kate, reading from one of Katie's emails .

Kate [00:18:46] I do still go to church and I do engage with the community but it feels slightly disjointed. I'm more about the church lifestyle. I don't consider myself as having broken away but at the same time I don't consider myself as having fully stayed.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:19:02] Katie is the only person I spoke to for this project who is committed to staying in the church but is also determined to think for herself. She refuses to accept the idea that you have to believe all the church's teachings to be a church member. That you have to give up your community just because you don't agree with them on some things. I wonder how hard that must be, especially on things that hit really close to home.

Katie [00:19:27] One thing I really don't appreciate about Kenny's viewpoint sometimes, is that he thinks being gay is something that you can flip and that you can learn to get out of. I truly don't believe that. He said he was going to send me a book, I can't remember what it's called, it's basically 'Getting the Gay Out' or something like that.

Hideo [00:19:49] That stuff is so hateful Katie.

Katie [00:19:52] I know! For me my thinking is that this love and this connection that I have with Kenny is so precious to me that I know that there are people out there who happen to be same sex but I know that if they have the same feelings that I have for Kenny then I really wouldn't want them to lose that.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:20:14] It's 2019 and Kenny thinks being gay is a choice and he's married to my friend. Katie is a gentle, kind, understanding person. She was very supportive when I told her I'm queer and transgender. So finding out that she's married to someone with such terrible and ignorant opinions is kind of scary for me. If Kenny doesn't have enough empathy to believe gay people exist is he really going to be able to take care of her? Katie has told me more than once that she wants to have children with Kenny. What if they're gay?

Hideo Higashibaba [00:20:50] Sure, I might be overreacting. I bet there are plenty of homophobic people who are in perfectly fine relationships. But Katie is my friend. We were chatting once and she said, 'I would love for you to meet Kenny' and I reminded her that I'm gay. I don't want to meet him. Katie's intense commitment to Kenny reminds me of my parents who have been miserably married for 36 years. I'm not claiming to know anything about relationships. You might have missed it, but I was kind of raised in a cult, so I don't know shit about anything and I know that. But neither my parents nor Katie had any other relationships before they got married. I wonder if that makes it hard to know what's healthy and what's not and what really makes two people compatible. But what Katie always comes back to is the community. In a recent email she said that her choices about the church aren't just for her.

Kate [00:21:46] In thinking about the future and my future kids, I think the most important thing about growing up is having a community you can turn to when things get rough. A community of people who want to support and love each other. I can't fathom not having that community of support and raising my kids alone. I have my beliefs and I believe that they are strong enough that I can teach my kids to think for themselves rather than subscribe immediately to the church doctrine. My community just happens to be considered a cult. The most important part of growing up money is deciding truly what you believe and sticking with it no matter what the popular opinion is.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:22:24] Katie told me she doesn't think all of the church's teachings are bad. She still thinks that most of society's problems could be fixed by resolving quote 'familial relationships' and that it's freeing to relate to people without thinking of them sexually.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:22:40] Knowing my friend believes those things is hard for me. The Christian far-right has been saying that we need to 'rebuild the family' for decades. It's a way to push queer and trans people, single parents, and survivors of abuse to the margins. And how do I explain to her that yes, some people see others just as sex objects and we all agree those people are horrible and gross but not everyone is horrible and gross. My friends and chosen family certainly aren't. But I think what Katie is really saying is that she doesn't like that people outside the church are connected to their sexuality. They aren't afraid of sexual attraction and they act on those feelings even if they aren't married or dating. Katie doesn't want to live around people like that. And she doesn't want to raise her children around people like that. People like me. What she wants is all the goodness and purity she expects from Moonies.

Katie [00:23:36] I've met some people who kind of fit the bill in terms of the genuineness and the love that they have for other people. And the fact that they're constantly trying to improve themselves so that they can show that they really care for other people without the whole like, 'do they want to have sex with me' or 'are they just doing that because I know they are hurt and they act that way because they've been hurt before.' I mean obviously not church kids have that sort of feeling. They definitely have been through a lot. It's just like there are certain people who are so genuine that they've worked through all those thoughts and feelings and they have found something that really gets them through it. And get them through difficulties and I found it for myself, I think. Within this church community and within this life.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:24:43] Next time on Growing Up Moonie...

Hideo Higashibaba [00:24:46] I feel like the closer I get to being who I am by coming out as gay and coming out as gender nonconforming like, there is no shred of doctrine that could justify my existence at this point.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:24:57] That's next time on Growing Up Moonie.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:25:09] Growing up Moonie is written by me. This episode was edited and produced by Quinn Myers, with music by Podingtonbear. Special thanks to Kate Bennett. If you like what you're hearing please give us some stars or leave a review wherever you're listening. It really helps to boost the show and helps this project reach a wider audience. I'm Hideo Higashibaba. Thanks for listening.

In the textbook definition of a cult, a group must have three things: a charismatic leader, insider/outsider identity, and shared ritual. In this episode, Hideo shares some of the rituals of the Moonies and what he had to leave behind.

TRANSCRIPT

News Announcer [00:00:01] A decade ago, The Reverend Sun Myung Moon was accused of controlling the minds of young people creating so-called Moonies.

News Announcer [00:00:08] So-called Moonies, followers of the Reverend Sun Myung Moon head of the Unification Church, who became well-known in the early 80s for his mass wedding ceremonies.

Interpreter [00:00:16] Do you pledge to establish an eternal family with which God can be happy.

Crowd [00:00:24] Yes!

Interpreter [00:00:25] We are talking about absolute fidelity here. If anybody deviates from this God-given principle they are bound to hell.

News Announcer [00:00:35] But the church has a different plan for the second generation.

2nd gen [00:00:38] I felt like we weren't equipped for the world. You know we aren't just like this bubble.

2nd gen [00:00:43] To me it sounds culty. I know it's what brought our parents to church but it's not what keeps me in the church.

2nd gen [00:00:48] Even if I'm not doing everything that they want me to do or I don't believe everything that they believe we still have this like line that connects us.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:01:05] My name is Hideo Higashibaba. Until four years ago, I was a part of a cult called the Unification Church. You might know them as the Moonies. This is Growing Up Moonie, stories from people who grew up in the church like me.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:01:21] In my second year of college I took a social psychology class and there was a whole chapter in our textbook about cults. And you guessed it, the Moonies were in it. I learned that for a group to be called a cult it has to have three things: a charismatic leader, insider outsider identity, and shared ritual. The Moonies charismatic leader is obviously Sun Myung Moon and we've heard a lot about the insider outsider identity in past episodes. But before we go into the next interview I want to take a minute to talk about that last thing. The rituals of the Unification Church. I have two decades of Moonie knowledge, stories, poems, chants, and songs in my head. Even after I rejected the reasons behind them, the shared ritual is in my bones. I catch myself singing church songs, what we called Holy Songs. I can even remember most of the words.

Hideo singing [00:02:29] Pure new life that was sown within the gardens furtile soil. Sprouting seed has now become blossom of heavenly loveliness. Father above...

Hideo Higashibaba [00:02:47] The words are bananas. That's partly because a lot of them were translated from Korean but also partly because they're just crazy.

Hideo singing [00:03:01] The Father's dwelling place is the fountain of our life drawn to the light of eternal day we banned the darkness. May the Word of God...

Hideo Higashibaba [00:03:19] There is no reason for me to sing these songs now but I catch myself singing them in odd moments. The lyrics kind of creep me out.

Hideo singing [00:03:27] So eternally to receive his love. We shall be his pride...

Hideo Higashibaba [00:03:41] Correct church etiquette dictates that one always bows in the presence of the founder Sun Myung Moon and his wife, who are called the True Parents. If they weren't around you bow their picture. There was the full bow, where you place your right hand over left. Then put your hands to your forehand as you bend down to crouch in front of the picture. Then there was the half bow, where you just bend at the waist for when you were outside or in a rush or something. Being a Moonie is made up of dozens of small rituals like this. There are way too many to mention them all here so I'm just going to tell you about three important ones. During the week Moonies were expected to read the sacred texts of the church for at least an hour a day usually old speeches and lectures from Moon. This is called Hoon Dok Hae. It's a Korean phrase that from what I can tell means get up ridiculously early to read little gems like this. Here's my editor Quinn reading from one of Moon's speeches.

Quinn Myers [00:04:42] In the world today there are advanced nations and underdeveloped nations. In the advanced nations people have a lot and end up discarding leftover things, whereas people in underdeveloped nations lack many things, especially food. They may even starve to death. Twenty million people die of starvation each year. Do you think that is God's will? What the advanced nations are doing is oppressing the universe's natural system of interaction. If this continues the advanced nations will be unable to avoid divine punishment. Heaven will not let this go unnoticed. Already, signs of judgement are appearing in various places. One of the signs is the prevalence of sexually transmitted diseases, and another is drug and alcohol abuse. Both free sex and homosexuality are the madness of the lowest of the human race. God detests such behavior the most. Satan, on the other hand, praises such behavior the most.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:05:42] You heard that right. World hunger is caused by gay people. Most Moonies didn't actually do Hoon Dok Hae every day, I know my family didn't. We usually just did it on Sunday mornings before church. Other rituals were just for special occasions. There's the matching and blessing obviously but also stuff you could only do at Chun Pyung, the church's headquarters in Korea. My family went there the summer I turned eight. Chun Pyung is this beautiful white marble city. I think it's a resort town with bathhouses and a hospital. There's a lake and beautiful mountains everywhere. I think there's a big palace now too, dedicated to the founder and his family. One of the rules at Chun Pyung is that we had to wear white shirts. I have no idea why but that was the rule. When my family and I went there were 12,000 people at the same workshop all wearing white shirts and dark pants and almost everyone there was Asian with black hair. So the place looked like the static on a television screen. In the 10 days my family was there we climbed the special mountain and drink the special water on the mountain. I went to a bathhouse for the first time. Chun Pyung was very hot and not very exciting for an 8 year old. Everything was kind of different like it would be in any foreign country but not that weird. But then there was Ansu.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:07:18] The Ansu hall is this enormous room with hundreds of people all sitting on the floor in rows. A team of singers and drummers come on stage and start to sing the song, Blessing of Glory in Korean. They lead the crowd, stepping to the music, while the drummer keeps the beat. The crowd claps to the music for a couple of verses and then the leader signals to everyone to start hitting themselves to the beat. That's right, hitting themselves. Not just anywhere, that would be crazy! You only hit the part of the body that the leader tells you to. So they yell 'arms!' or 'legs!' and 500 people start hitting their legs in unison. Other leaders would walk through the crowd showing people how to hit themselves correctly, sometimes urging people to hit themselves harder.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:08:14] Why do Moonies do Ansu, you may ask. It's to free the body of the evil spirits trapped inside. Most Moonies did Ansu only a few times in their lives because it can only be done in certain places at certain times. You can just go around hitting yourself all the time! It had to be done in Chun Pyung and sometimes at one of Moon's gazillion billion properties in upstate New York. The most memorable part of my family's trip to Korea was when I barfed in the Ansu Hall. I'd been really sick for the whole trip. Somehow I'd gotten a stomach bug on the way over and combined with the jetlag, I was a hot mess. My mum and sisters and I were settling down in the Ansu Hall before a session, when I stood up too fast and projectile vomited all over the floor. All the women around us started pulling towels napkins little packets of Kleenex out of their bags to help us. The only man nearby made this disgusted noise and scooted away like, 'Ulgh!'.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:09:17] I was covered in vomit, so my mother grabbed me by the back of the neck and steered me out of the hall into the bathroom. I didn't have to do answer after that. I remember feeling really guilty because instead of feeling bad that I couldn't do this wholly special once in a lifetime thing I was relieved.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:09:45] A smaller but no less odd ritual is holy salt. The logic behind holy salt is that Satan rules over everything in the world. So, Moon told us that before we go around using all this stuff that Satan has claim over, we should claim it back. Anytime we brought anything into the house; groceries, bags of hand-me-downs, Christmas gifts, we would say a prayer and sprinkle this salt on the objects three times. If you didn't have salt handy, you could also blow three little puffs like, pff pff pff. For some reason we also did this to toilets before we sat down on them. I guess it was because you didn't want to put your bare bottom on Satan's toilet seat. All that was years ago when the founder Moon was alive. Life was good. It was uncomplicated. Then in 2012...

News Announcer [00:10:39] The Reverend Sun Myung Moon who founded a global religious movement has died. His Unification Church was famous for its mass weddings in which thousands of followers often from different countries married simultaneously. At the same time, he faced accusations of brainwashing...

Hideo Higashibaba [00:10:59] Since Moon's death, the church has split into factions. One is headed by his wife and the other two are led by his sons who both insist they are the true heirs. It's kind of a mess and one of the factions has gotten extra weird.

News Announcer [00:11:15] Exactly two weeks after the deadly shooting in Florida, the Sanctuary Church near Newfoundland encouraged people to bring a AR-15s to a couple's blessing ceremony Wednesday. Participants say the firearms symbolize the rod of iron in the Bible's Book of Revelation.

Sanctuary Church Member [00:11:33] I don't look as an assault rifle. I look at it as a as a weapon to protect my family and to protect my neighbors.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:11:42] This ceremony looked a lot like any blessing in the church. The women are wearing white and the men are wearing black suits with white gloves. But here everyone is holding a AR-15 rifles and crowns made out of bullets. It's really spooky. The whole tone feels a lot different to me, but these people are definitely Moonies.

News Announcer [00:12:04] They understand the controversy.

Sanctuary Church Member [00:12:06] Controversy is something you expect when you're a Unification Church member, a Moonie as we're lovingly known. We've grown up with controversy.

News Announcer [00:12:14] Outside the service there was a visible state police presence.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:12:18] That shit was scary. A local school closed down for the day because of it. I recognized one of the women in the photos, I think she was a friend of my mom's. It was all over the internet. Everyone was talking about it and not a single Moony I know of came out against it.

Hideo singing [00:12:42] Grace filling me with golden light, measureless blessing divine. God gives eternal life to me, perfectly rejoicing is mine. Glorious the song ringing in my heart for my father above...

Hideo Higashibaba [00:13:00] Rituals are an important part of being a person. Every single one of us has them. Taking a shower before work, that's a ritual. So is praying before a meal or celebrating birthdays. You have rituals in your life even if you don't call them that. These are just a few of the many Moonies do. Doing rituals with other people makes us feel connected to them and that's why there's such a powerful part of cults. Because those rituals aren't just silly songs or poems. If you say them enough they start to shape your reality. The prayers I said when I was lonely also reminded me that I was worthless without God or my family. Those songs I loved so much made it clear that I was in constant danger of Satan's attack.

Hideo singing [00:13:48] Grace filling every part of me blessing that never will die. Glorious the song...

Hideo Higashibaba [00:13:57] Even though I don't want them anymore, these Moonie rituals are still a part of me. I can't hate them without hating myself. I want them gone but I don't know who I'll be without them. I was scared for my whole life because of this cult, but here on the outside, all this is really scary too. I have to create my own reality now and my own rituals. My own ways to make a meaning in the world.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:14:38] Next time on Growing Up Moonie...

Katie [00:14:41] I don't care about doctrine or dogma. I don't really care for it if it splits up people that you love.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:14:49] That's next time on Growing Up Moonie.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:15:02] Growing Up Moonie is written by me. This episode was edited and produced by Quinn Myers with music by Podington Bear. Special thanks to Kate Bennett for helping out with music for this episode. Please take a moment to leave us a rating and review wherever you're listening. It really helps this podcast reach a wider audience. Visit growingupmoonie.com for more info. I'm Hideo Higashibaba. Thanks for listening.

In the early days of the Moonies, members all lived together in centers across the country and world. But when the second generation were born many families decided to move out and try something new: being totally separate from and yet a part of society. That’s what the second generation had to juggle, all the time and every day. Hideo and Teruko talk about the struggle to understand identity and belonging as the second generation.

TRANSCRIPT

News Announcer [00:00:01] A decade ago, the Reverend Sun Myung Moon was accused of controlling the minds of young people creating so-called Moonies.

News Announcer [00:00:08] So called Moonies, followers of the Reverend Sun Myung Moon head of the Unification Church who became well-known in the early 80s for his mass wedding ceremonies.

Interpreter [00:00:16] Do you pledge to establish an eternal family with which God can be happy.

Crowd [00:00:24] Yes!

Interpreter [00:00:25] We are talking about absolute fidelity here. If anybody deviates from this God-given principle they are bound to hell.

News Announcer [00:00:35] But the church has a different plan for the second generation.

2nd Gen [00:00:38] I felt like we weren't equipped for the world. You know we aren't just like this bubble.

2nd Gen [00:00:43] To me it sounds culty. I know it's what brought our parents to church but it's not what keeps me in the church.

2nd Gen [00:00:48] Even if I'm not doing everything that they want me to do, or I don't believe everything that they believe we still have this like line that connects us.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:01:10] My name is Hideo Higashibaba. For the first 22 years of my life I was a member of a cult called the Unification Church. You might know them as the Moonies. I was born into the Unification Church and so were thousands of other people all over the world. This is Growing Up Moonie, stories from people who grew up in the church like me. People who joined the church as adults are called first generation and people born into the cult like me are called second generation blessed children or BCs. When first generation joined most of them gave up their worldly possessions and moved into church centers all over the country. My family lived in one of those centers in Boston. Every day the adults would go out fundraising or evangelizing and left their kids with a couple of other missionaries in a makeshift nursery. When I was born I was too small to be in the nursery so I spent the first year of my life with my mom at her meetings or the lectures she did on the church's teachings. When I was 2, my family moved out of the center and joined the hundreds of other Moonie families trying something new; being totally separate from and yet a part of society. That's what the second generation had to juggle all the time and every day. The next person I spoke with for this project was Teruko who was friends with my older sister Yojin when we were kids.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:02:48] I'm really happy to connect with you I feel like we spent a lot of time to get always you in Yojin spent a lot of time ago those kids and I kind of idolized you. And then when you moved away it's sort of like I don't know and everything felt like it changed.

Teruko [00:03:01] Yeah I mean I am the center of a lot of people's lives.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:03:04] Pretty, pretty humble and modest I can see as well.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:03:11] Teruko's family lived in Gloucester near a lot of other Moonie families. She went to school with a lot of other BCs and saw them every week at church. I always felt like an outsider, even at church. But I remember Teruko was in the thick of things, playing with the other kids, tearing around morning garden with Yojin and getting into trouble for running off into the woods. When she was in middle school Teruko's family moved to Omaha. She says the church community out in Nebraska was a lot more spread out and isolating.

Teruko [00:03:45] There is actually a girl in middle school who told me that her grandma was a deprogrammer and I was really scared. I legitimately thought someone was going to come after me to take me away a or or whatever like all those horror stories you hear as a kid.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:04:00] All Moonie kids grew up with stories of people who were kidnapped and deprogrammed or forced to denounce the leader Sun Myung Moon and the church. One woman I knew would testify to her faith by telling the story of how she was kidnapped by her family and locked in a room for days.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:04:20] They told her she couldn't leave until she rejected the church and its teachings. Eventually, she got them to bring her something to drink. It was in a glass bottle so she broke it and cut herself with the glass. They took her to the hospital and she escaped back to the church. Because of stories like that, a lot of second gen me included, tried to keep our religion a secret for as long as we could. But with that girl threatening Teruko with her grandmother, Teruko didn't want to hide anymore.

Teruko [00:04:52] Yeah that was kind of a turning point I think for me too. I don't know, I felt like I was kind of hiding everything for a long time and then she, when she told me that she said it kind of like, 'oh found out your secret.' And I was like 'oh crap.' And then I was like 'You know I shouldn't hide anything anymore because that's how bad things happen to people.' So, I actually was pretty outspoken, which is sort of an opposite reaction to most people.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:05:20] Being separate and disliked by the general public was like a badge of honor. The leader Moon said we should be proud of our persecution. It made us worthy of our blessings. But for kids trying to go to school with other well-liked and normal children, that's a hard sell. I felt so guilty for hiding my faith. I desperately wanted to feel included and normal but that's hard to do would you also believe that you don't have Original Sin. Before that girl threatened to out her, Teruko did her best to hide her religion from other people.

Teruko [00:05:58] I think it did make me feel kind of bad, like you're lying most of the time but you're not sure who you're lying to and I always felt weird about two parts of my life crossing over.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:06:11] Why was it so anxiety inducing do you think?

Teruko [00:06:17] Probably because, I would say one strong thing that I remember from Sunday school or camp or workshops or whatever, it was learning that second gen really special and were born without any Original Sin and all that stuff that we learned. And so other kids are not at the same level so you're different than them and I don't know, I guess I felt kind of like I had to be two people, like I had to be someone who was quote unquote "normal" or not the church around my school friends because they wouldn't understand because they weren't the same as me and then at church I couldn't be that person that I was at school because I had to create that separate personality.

Teruko [00:07:11] One really scary thing, I think maybe one thing that helped me smash those two lives together was I took psychology in high school and we did a whole section on cults and I chose the church as my final project.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:07:28] Wow. Dang. Dang girl, that is bold. That is very bold.

Teruko [00:07:32] I was like, you know I'm terrified but I'm going to take it head on because otherwise I'll just be scared forever. Yeah, so I started my presentation off like very by the book and and then my big reveal was like five minutes before the end of my 30 minute presentation. I was like, Oh by the way I'm in this church. And people physically backed their desks up. And I got an A plus because I think my teacher was afraid to fail me. It was a good presentation, I like I wrote a good paper. But yeah, people looked at me differently after that, but all in all I don't think anything changed. And that's when I realized that it really wasn't that big a deal.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:08:11] After high school Teruko got matched to a guy from England through picture matching where two families send pictures of their kids back and forth to potentially marry them off. They were blessed in Korea but Teruko ended up breaking it off. Soon after, Teruko decided to do this church program called STF, which a lot of second gen did after high school...other than get married. STF stands for Special Task Force. It's a program for college age blessed children that mimics what a lot of first gen did when they were full time missionaries. On STF, they do a lot of what's called witnessing, recruiting people to workshops or lectures on the church's teachings. They also do volunteer projects and give talks in schools about the importance of abstinence. All this was supported through fundraising which they did by traveling around in vans selling trinkets or candy on the street.

Teruko [00:09:12] It was kind of like a Jesus Camp situation where I started questioning whether another really wanted to be in the church and then I thought, you know what, I should just dive in head first because that's the right thing to do and I will join STF and I will do pitch picture matching and that will fix me. It did not work like that. That's not how things actually work, I found out. But it was a really good experience, I got to travel Europe for six months. I met a lot of cool people and I think it came out better.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:09:46] I mean it sounds a little bit traumatic.

Teruko [00:09:49] That was very traumatic. But I have to do everything really extreme, I can't do anything the safe way. Not that I am a risk taker I'm just not strategic.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:10:05] What was what was what was traumatic about it.

Teruko [00:10:08] Well I was shunned for a good portion by everyone from, all the brothers, all the guys from England because I broke the...well I was actually blessed which in the church is getting married but it's not legal you start to go get like the paper signed. So I actually got Blessed somebody from England. And it didn't work out for just a couple of reasons. I was not ready and that was not fair to the other family because I thought I could go and get blessed and that kind of fix me, stop me from questioning, kind of center me or whatever have you. Because I feel like that's kind of what you grow up believing is that you just work really hard so you can be a perfect person so that you can get married and then have a family and you know white picket fence, yada yada yada. And I just kind of thought my life not going that direction so I thought I'd force it to which is like trying to put a circle block into a square hole.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:11:12] That feeling of trying to put a circle block into a square hole is how I felt my whole life. What I was told to believe never really added up to what I actually experienced. I think that's the only way a cult can function; to get people to ignore their own experiences. If there was doubt it was a sign of a lack of faith. The solution was to pray about it until you understood.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:11:47] One of my favorite songs used to be Bye and Bye. It's a Christian hymn. It goes, "We'll tell the story how we overcome and we'll understand it better bye and bye.".

Hideo Higashibaba [00:12:05] "The story how we overcome," like how we overcame our sins and struggles. And will understand all our struggles, bye and bye. Like, eventually. For most of my life I thought that bye and bye could be in 10 years. But it also could be in 50 or maybe not even until I was dead and in the spirit world. My job was to wait and pray and believe, not ask questions. And that wasn't weird to me at least not until four years ago. That's the only way a cult can work; disconnecting people from how they feel and telling them to feel something else has to be normal. But talking with Teruko, it doesn't seem that dramatic. Juggling her life in and outside the church seems to have come pretty naturally. Once she decided to be open about her faith, it seemed like things got easier for her. She had a strong sense of self and she could build relationships and create a life on her own. Something I've been curious about while working on this project is how people growing up in the church experienced and developed their ideas of romantic love which Moonies seem to be really suspicious and scared of yet obsessed with at the same time.

Teruko [00:13:25] My parents never really were affectionate and not because they were...I remember them fighting a lot of kids but I just remember never being afraid of that like I was just normal to me. My mom said like, my dad would just get mad, like, they'd arguing about something really stupid. About like, who was going to mow the lawn, you know, something pretty normal. My dad would just be like, "ugh" and go for a three hour drive just around and then he'd come back. So I remember never being afraid like, they're not going to get a divorce, that's not allowed in the church. So it just seemed super normal to me that they'd always fight. And it wasn't until I was an adult that I was like, oh normal people don't do that.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:14:18] Teruko went through the blessing process even though she wasn't sure she was ready. None of us expected to feel totally ready any anyway. We were told that being attracted to your spouse when you first met was silly and superficial.

Teruko [00:14:33] They're like you you won't be 100 percent ready. You might not even love this person for like seven years.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:14:38] Or ten or a hundred.

Teruko [00:14:40] Yeah and now hearing that I'm like, that's crazy. I mean I understand that you shouldn't marry someone because like your band is the favorite band with the other person. That stuff changes. That would be stupid to base your relationship off of but at the same time should not be marrying someone who is so different. Even if you think it's all these stupid little things, like, you'll never enjoy things together and you will wear and tear on you.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:15:11] It's just like not a fun time. I think there's like this emphasis on the more cross-cultural the arranged marriage is and the more different and the more disparate than like the better. And it just doesn't seem like you're setting people up for success in a marriage.

Teruko [00:15:27] Well. So I mentioned before that I actually went to a blessing. Got the dress the whole nine yards, right. And when we got there, I was just like, oh my gosh. I don't want to do this. But it was kind of that like, everyone's watching, you need to make this work. It's going to be difficult. And you just kind of accept that which is weird.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:15:53] Teruko is married now but not to a church member. She met her now husband Johnny in college after STF when she was still living at home. She did not tell her parents she was seeing someone but her mom figured it out.

Teruko [00:16:08] It started off the first encounter of Johnny and my mom. She was looking at my cell phone bill and she was like you're texting the phone number a lot. Who is this. And she called him, like she got his number from the cell phone bill and called him. Oh yeah yeah. Are you like cringing right now?

Hideo Higashibaba [00:16:27] Yes my hand is fully on my face. Just full palm.

Teruko [00:16:32] Called him and then met him at a coffee shop and she was basically like, I know you think that you're going to be in this relationship with Teruko and you might think you really love her but in our religion you're Satan and you're going to pull her away and...

Hideo Higashibaba [00:16:51] Oh my God!

Teruko [00:16:51] And later he was like, your mom called me Satan. I just want you to know that. Uhh.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:17:04] Oh no!

Teruko [00:17:04] Oh yeah. She was like, you're in the position of the archangel and Adam and Eve and blah blah blah and this whole biblical thing and went into a whole thing. I don't even know how long they were there, because I didn't know she was meeting him.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:17:19] Oh my god, I'm crying!

Teruko [00:17:19] And he stuck around!

Hideo Higashibaba [00:17:19] He loves you so much Teruko. Either that or you're like amazing in bed. Either way I mean, that's amazing.

Teruko [00:17:27] I am just a great person in general.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:17:30] I mean I'm totally totally willing to believe that. That is bananas, what you just described.

Teruko [00:17:37] Yeah. But he was very serious. I mean, when I first met him I was kind of like you know doing my own thing I think I was like 22 maybe. And so like I can drink now. My parents aren't in charge of me but I still live at home so I have to sneak in at night. It's really weird and yeah I don't know, I think he was like hey...I don't even remember how he asked me if I wanted to like, 'go steady' but like he asked me out and I was just like, well I'm not going to just date someone. Either we get married or nothing.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:18:17] Wow. Did you say that to him?

Teruko [00:18:19] Oh yeah. He was like, Oh OK. Sure.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:18:27] And it was just like that, just like that simple and easy?

Teruko [00:18:30] I mean then we dated for a year and got engaged and got married. Well, got Blessed and then married. Yeah, but now my mom's like, totally changed her tune. "We love Johnny so much!"  

Hideo Higashibaba [00:18:38] No longer Satan.

Teruko [00:18:38] He's amazing, so great. And I'm like, you guys didn't like him at the beginning, she's like, I don't remember that.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:18:48] Oh really. You don't remember calling your future son-in-law Satan.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:18:54] Teruko and Johnny were blessed in a mass wedding like good second gen are. They did the special pre-blessing workbooks and workshops you're supposed to do before the blessing. Johnny even did a year-long study of the church's teachings with Teruko's mom which must have been really intense.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:19:14] But all that is totally different from what we were told was OK when we were kids. Second gen were prepped to marry someone in the church our whole lives. It was kind of the whole point for people without Original Sin to marry other people without Original Sin. And when you marry someone outside the church you kind of ruin that. When my sister Anshin started dating a non-Moonie I felt like my family was getting ripped apart. Anshin was constantly fighting with my parents. Her boyfriend would goad me into fights with him. It felt like there was an intruder in our house. It got better once they got married and all was forgiven by the time they had their first child, at least for my mom. I don't think my dad has ever totally forgiven Anshin but eventually my parents adjusted to this new reality like Teruko's parents.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:20:12] I also want to point out that Teruko and Johnny, and my sister and her husband, are cisgender straight people. They dated for a year and got married. Teruko didn't even date other people before. All that probably made it a lot easier for her parents to accept Johnny and for Teruko to keep the friends and community she has in the church.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:20:35] The inside world of the church and the outside secular world blended more and more as second gen got older. Some even stopped believing what the church taught. But for most second gen, their friends were in the church and it was a huge part of their identity. That community was the extension of their family. It's not something you can just walk away from.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:20:59] You said that when you met Johnny you were still living at home, but you were pretty disillusioned with the church and kind of stepping away from it and then...

Teruko [00:21:12] Yeah, I still went on Sunday so my parents wouldn't... It was easier for me to spend an hour at church than to get scolded for several days. So I was that thing where you show up and then leave. Eat and then leave. But yeah, I think I was pretty done at that point with everything, but I mean like I said before the community is my favorite part and there are some great people who are you know just the nicest people you ever meet. If I don't want to lose that and I kind of felt like if I left the church I would lose that. And that kind of kept me around.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:21:52] Teruko married someone outside the church and doesn't believe what her parents believe, but she still gets to have a relationship with them. And for me it's hard to hear that Teruko gets to be herself and keep her family because the closer I get to being myself, embracing and loving my queerness and being transgender and living my own life, the further away my family feels from me. The less I feel like we will ever reconcile. Teruko broke all the church's rules. But two cisgender straight people getting married is not that weird to the rest of the world. And I think it made it easier for her family to accept her. Second gen don't remember a time before the church, before we believed all the things we were taught to believe, before Moon was the messiah. Even as Teruko and other second gen grew up and learned new things or developed their own opinions the church's teachings ran deep.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:22:56] So you said that you were pretty disillusioned you were pretty done but then when Johnny was like, Hey do you want to go out with me you were like, well if you want to go out with me you also have to marry me, which is seems to me like a pretty...

Teruko [00:23:07] It's a pretty church thing to say like, no dating. I think it's just like, I definitely held a lot of a lot of the beliefs, I still hold them. There are good things. I think that it's that organized religion portion that bothers me like seeing my parents donate hundreds and hundreds of dollars that they didn't have to build some kind of crazy building in the homeland in Korea which like, Cheon Pyung which is, I don't know if it's like town, I'm not sure, it's a lot of land in the mountain where like headquarters is. It's beautiful there. It's amazing. I'm sure if you live there. But I mean and then that's all built on donations would have kind of like a forced donation it wasn't really like the normal 10 percent or whatever. Several hundred dollars that you would donate at a time. I just remember being like, No thanks. I don't think if you really believe in a God who is not a physical I don't know, like king sitting on a throne, does he care if your church has a huge million dollar stained glass window in it? I also think that other religions having their brick and mortar buildings be so elaborate is ridiculous. But that's just me.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:24:31] Well it just feels personal with this one. Do you remember that campaign they did where it was like liberating your ancestors. And if you could give like a lower amount than it would be fewer ancestors but if you did a higher amount it would be more ancestors liberated and since like...

Teruko [00:24:46] Someone from Omaha liberated like thirty generations on both side or whatever like whatever that amount is. I have no idea.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:24:56] Like the highest one was like 500. But then you had to pay like a thousand dollars. And it felt weird to me at a time but I was a kid and I was actually like very strictly taught to not question any adult let alone my parents. But looking back now, I get like, physically angry because like that was the same year my mom couldn't afford to buy me shoes for like school and my aunt had to step in.

Teruko [00:25:22] It was, you know, I think though that like people in any religion or for any cause that they believe in do this kind of thing. I mean like, I'm addicted to those hoarder shows, like animal hoarders, and there are people who start off with really good intentions where they're like, Oh no these dog needs help I'll adopted it. There's always gonna be another thing. And then you just can't catch up at some point.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:25:54] The church has also adapted to the times. Teruko's husband Johnny is not a second gen but now he's blessed. That is totally different from the plan we were told as children. But if every second gen who dated or married someone outside the church was thrown out, the church would have failed years ago. So now second gen can be blessed to non-Moonie Original Sin having people. My life totally fell apart as I tried to make sense of my childhood and I am still struggling to understand it. But Teruko she's found a kind of peace with her childhood, as strange as it was.

Teruko [00:26:40] Definitely the church has had a big impact on who I am and the direction my life has taken. And sometimes there were downs but followed by huge ups language is common for anybody in any religion or in any part of the world which makes me feel better. Which is very different from when I was a kid and I felt very different. But probably with a smaller world view you see the differences a little bit clearer. Seeing more people and how many different kinds of people, different upbringing just makes me realize that kind of depressingly I'm a drop in the bucket. But it's no good to know that I'm not a sore thumb sticking out too.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:27:44] Next time on Growing Up Moonie...

First Gen [00:27:47] Controversy is something you expect when you're a Unification Church member. A Moonie as we're lovingly known. We've grown up with controversy.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:27:56] That's next time on Growing Up Moonie. This episode of Growing Up Moonie was written by me, edited and produced by Quinn Myers with music by Podington Bear. If you want to help other people find these stories please leave us a rating or a review to help them find this podcast. Go to growingupmoonie.com for more. I am Hideo Higashibaba. Thanks for listening.

Sun Myung Moon was born the son of poor farmers in present-day North Korea and by the time he died ruled a global cult and was a billionaire. Hideo digs into some of  the stories and legends surrounding the charismatic leader of the Moonies.

TRANSCRIPT

Hideo Higashibaba [00:00:03] Thanks for listening to Growing Up Moonie. Just a heads up to our listeners, this episode includes lewd references to women. Please take care of yourself as you listen. Okay, back to the podcast.

News Announcer [00:00:17] A decade ago, the Reverend Sun Myung Moon was accused of controlling the minds of young people creating so-called Moonies. So called Moonies followers of the Reverend Sun Myung Moon head of the Unification Church who became well-known in the early 80s for his mass wedding ceremonies.

Interpreter [00:00:32] Do you pledge to establish an eternal family with which God can be happy?

Crowd [00:00:39] YES

Interpreter [00:00:41] We are talking about absolute fidelity here. If anybody deviates from this God-given principle they are bound to hell.

News Announcer [00:00:50] But the church has a different plan for the second generation.

2nd Gen [00:00:53] I felt like we weren't equipped for the world. You know we aren't just like this bubble.

2nd Gen [00:00:59] To me it sounds culty. I know it's what brought our parents to church but it's not what keeps me in the church.

2nd Gen [00:01:04] Then if I'm not doing everything that they want me to do or I don't believe everything that they believe we still have this like line that connects us.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:01:12] My name is Hideo Higashibaba. Until four years ago, I was in a cult called the Unification Church. You might know them as the Moonies. This is growing up Moonie, stories from people who grew up in the church like me. Before we continue hearing the stories of people who were born into the church, the second generation, I want to tell you a little about the founder a man named Sun Myung Moon. This man matched my parents. On their wedding day they and 2074 couples made their vows to him.

Interpreter [00:01:53] Do you, as an ideal husband and wife, pledge to establish an eternal family with which God can be happy.

Crowd [00:02:01] Yes!

Hideo Higashibaba [00:02:04] In a way. I exist because of this guy. There is no way my parents would have had children together otherwise. My parents don't like each other at all. But in the church not having children is not an option. It's seen as a sign of weakness or failure. Sure, my parents had some kind of choice; to join a cult to get married to have children with someone they disliked. But the fact remains that my existence is tied to a man who abused, used and manipulated my parents. A man that demanded their faith and took their money while they worked 70 hour weeks and counted pennies. But to the world, Moon is just some strange character, the charismatic leader of a distant cult. With the mass weddings and rumors of brainwashing. He kind of became a household name in America.

Clip from Seinfeld: Elaine [00:03:02] Anyway, Mr. Costanza I want you to do is go into the shop with me and tell me what they're saying. You do speak Korean?

Clip from Seinfeld: Mr. Costanza [00:03:10] I want to talk to the Reverend Sun Myung Moon. He bought two Jesus statues from me. He's a hell of a nice guy. Ever seen that face on him. It was like a big apple pie.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:03:21] Moon was like family to me. He was more important to my parents than anyone else,  even their own parents. And so naturally I held him near and dear to my heart too. My parents told me he loved me that I was special to him and I never met the guy.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:03:42] I did see him speak a few times. Once, I must have been five or six years old, I remember I was very confused because it was a school night and me and my sisters were up way past our bedtimes. We drove into Boston to some fancy hotel with maroon carpeting that I was not allowed to lie down on. Hundreds packed into the ballroom of the hotel and I remember I was very uncomfortable because unlike other Moonie gatherings men and women all sat together. And there were no kids.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:04:15] During events like this, parents usually left their children at home or went to the children's room which had a video feed of the speech. My mother sat us at the back of the ballroom. People glared at us and told my mom she should be in the children's room with her kids. She glared back or ignored them. My mom is a minister so she was often responsible for hosting guests and other ministers at speeches. It was infuriating that she was expected to miss most of the ceremony in a room of screaming children. No one thought that maybe her husband should be taking care of the children, although I am sure that idea crossed her mind more than once. She told me and my sisters we had to behave perfectly. No squirming, no talking, no crying. We behaved like angels in our dresses and tights that were always a little too small. We resisted the urge to kick our feet or climb up on our chairs to look around. Because these events were so boring. I spent hours of my childhood trying to stay awake during the preliminary musical offerings. Then came an introduction.

Rev. Walter Fauntroy [00:05:35] And I'm so pleased to stand with you to rebuild the family and to save the nation and the world. We thank God for each of you. We thank God for the Reverend Sun Myung Moon.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:05:51] And then Moon would finally speak. He knew very little English so he had an interpreter.

Interpreter [00:05:56] During the course of my life. I have totally committed myself to the salvation of humankind centered on God's will. I have lived my life with a single minded goal to accomplish God's Will transcending time and space and forgetting everything else.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:06:13] My mother often reminded me and my sisters that we were lucky to have been born in the time of the Messiah. Not many people were so blessed to be able to see him in person. Not surprisingly, Moon the self-proclaimed savior of all humanity, covered a lot of ground in his speeches.

Interpreter [00:06:34] In order to understand human history and the world from the perspective of God's providence, I would like to speak on the topic: the path for America and humanity in the new millenium.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:06:48] Moon was born in what is now North Korea in 1920 during the Japanese occupation. The story goes that when he was 16 years old Jesus Christ appeared to him in a vision and told him he was the person chosen to carry on his mission. Moon went to Japan to study engineering and then the Korean War happened. The United States invaded, driving out the Japanese and razing the Korean peninsula to the ground. Eventually, Moon wrote The Divine Principle which he said held all the secrets of heaven and earth and God's will. There's a lot to it but some of the more crazy parts include a bit about how the Virgin Mary was not actually a virgin because, uh, that's not possible...duh. Also, Moonies believe Jesus did not come to earth to die for our sins. Moon said Jesus was supposed to get married and have a family, blessed by God of course. The fact that he was crucified instead wasn't exactly a failure but it was not a part of the plan. The Divine Principle, known as the DP, had other little gems like this one. This is my editor Quinn reading a section.

Quinn Myers [00:08:02] Jesus came as the bridegroom to all humanity. All devout believers should become his brides awaiting the time of his return. After these brides celebrate the marriage of the lamb with Jesus, their bridegroom, they are to live in the kingdom of heaven in oneness with him as his wives, in a metaphorical sense.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:08:23] Clearly Moon had a pretty loose relationship with things like science and reality. Reading back through the DP, it reads like a step by step justification for men to own their wives as property, why black people are actually inferior to everyone else and why gay people are trash. A little 'how to' for patriarchy, racism and homophobia.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:08:50] By 1955, Moon's church had 30 centers all over Korea. A few years later he sent missionaries to Japan and then America where the hippies and free love people were gaining traction. If they wanted a revolution Moon wanted a counter revolution where women knew their place, homosexuals were punished for their sins, and God's will prevailed. He literally called for America to return to its Puritan roots.

Interpreter [00:09:19] Homosexuals lesbians or even those who go after a free sex life. God doesn't want those people. If they practice that kind of unprincipled life they are less than animals.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:09:37] I'm not sure why people were attracted to this kind of bullshit. I vaguely remember first generation, the adults I grew up with, giving testimony, telling the story of how and why they joined the church. One first gen said they were really uncomfortable with all the sex and drugs their peers were getting into. The Unification Church claimed a moral high ground over all that. The first gen didn't have to think about why the free love revolution made them uncomfortable. Moon did it for them.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:10:09] In the early days Moonies called their leader, master. By the time I was born he was called True Father and his wife Hak Ja Han was called True Mother. Together they were the True Parents, the Messiah of all humanity. Moonies think the True Parents are the first people to achieve perfection and oneness with God since Adam and Eve screwed up and were kicked out of Eden. When Moon spoke he had planned remarks but he went off script a lot and asked the audience questions. People would shout back answers or clap. As a kid it made me very uncomfortable. I was always told to be quiet and seeing all these grown-ups yelling was really off putting, especially when Moon would bring up women and their bodies, which was kind of a favorite topic for him.

Interpreter [00:11:02] What about the very organ which makes you as a woman, wife. Is that organ just strictly belonging to you or is it there for your husband.

Sun Myung Moon [00:11:19] Huh? [Speaks Korean]

Interpreter [00:11:19] The ladies should answer, not the men. For whom? For you or for your husband?

Crowd [00:11:37] Husband!

Sun Myung Moon [00:11:37] Husband! Make loud voice, husband!

Crowd [00:11:50] Husband!

Sun Myung Moon [00:11:50] One more time!

Crowd [00:11:50] Husband!

Sun Myung Moon [00:11:50] Amazing.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:11:50] It's so clear that moon hated women and people who have vaginas. Or at the very least, didn't understand them at all. But for men, it was a different story.

Interpreter [00:12:00] Promise that you will keep absolute fidelity. If you do that with your family together that you will become the master of your family, your family will come to owner, the center of your nation, your nation will become the center nation of the world, and eventually will be able to be the Kingdom of God on Earth.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:12:19] All Moon asked for in exchange for these nuggets of wisdom was absolute faith, absolute love, and absolute obedience. The True Parents weren't technically God but they were given a sacred respect the best of everything was set aside for them. We bowed to them or their pictures. We prayed in their names. We were told to read his teachings every day.

Interpreter [00:12:47] We are talking about absolute fidelity here. If anybody, any husband any wife, deviates from this God-given principle they are bound to hell.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:13:01] It's all pretty horrific stuff, but back when I was a Moonie I believed all of it. I believed that sex before marriage made me worthless and that gay people were sick and twisted. I believed that there would be divine retribution for those who violate God's laws. I thought Moon loved me, not just the idea of me, I thought he loved me specially. I thought he loved my parents and my siblings. I thought he knew what he was doing when he put my parents together even though they were unhappy.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:13:42] When I left the church I felt totally betrayed by Moon. I felt like I had been lied to. I had to realize that this person who I worshiped and prayed for and carried in my heart for two decades didn't care about me at all. I know it might seem silly especially if you weren't born into a cult and controlled by fear and shame for the most formative years of your life. But I was heartbroken. I still am a little I think. It's embarrassing, because listening back to those speeches I'm disgusted, but also I'm really angry. Moon sold my family this idea of the kingdom of heaven on earth. He demanded sacrifice after sacrifice, but really he used his followers to build a massive empire that made him and his family rich. He took money from us to build fancy mansions in places we would never see. And I didn't realize how messed up all that was until I left.

Interpreter [00:14:47] I'd like to conclude by expressing my hope for the beginning of a new millennium dome overflowing with peace, freedom and justice, may God's blessing be with you and your families. Thank you very much.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:15:02] Moon died in 2012. He was 92 years old. His legacy is a complicated mess. His sons and wife are fighting over his estate and spiritual leadership. Moon was a cult leader but he was also a business man. It makes me wonder how much of that creepy and shitty theology he actually believed. Maybe at some point it became less about controlling masses of people and more about the money. Maybe it was both.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:15:33] I'm not a psychologist, I don't know why evil people do what they do but I'm trying to find meaning for my life here. And I would not exist were it not for this man. This greedy, manipulative, lying, sexist, racist, homophobic pig and it kind of blows my mind. It's just so fucking random!

Hideo Higashibaba [00:15:56] I'm a small, queer, trans, nerdy, Japanese American and Moon was the son of poor farmers. He was born during the Japanese occupation in present day North Korea. He had to learn his language and culture in secret while Japanese soldiers tortured and raped his community. So at the risk of empathizing with this horrible person, I think he must have felt totally powerless. He must have discovered that he had a way with people, that people listened to him for whatever reason and that gave him power. Later, that charisma gave him wealth too which gave him more power which made him wealthy and on and on.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:16:38] It's not an excuse. The way Moon and his family manipulated, abused the people who followed him is inexcusable. I'm trying to wrap my mind around all this even though I know most of it has no good explanation. What I really want is to heal. I want to feel whole and good about myself. And to do that, I have to look back. I have to find a way to make sense of the past that created me, in order to be free from it.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:17:31] Next time on Growing Up Moonie.

Teruko [00:17:33] My parents never really were affectionate. I remember them fighting a lot of kids. But I just remember never being afraid of that like I was just normal to me. So I just remember never being afraid like oh yeah they're not going to get a divorce, that's not allowed in the church. So I was never afraid of arguing so it just seemed super normal to me that you would just always fight.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:17:54] That's next time on Growing Up Moonie. This episode of Growing Up Moonie was written and produced by me and edited by Quinn Myers. Music by Podington Bear, Blue Dot Sessions and Soularflaire. Special thanks to Elecia Harvey-Spain for transcription help. Please take a moment to leave us a rating and a review wherever you're listening. It really helps other people find the podcast and we are so grateful for your support. I am Hideo Higashibaba. Thanks for listening.

Hideo and Jenn grew up going to church, Sunday school, and church camp together, but they had wildly different home lives. Hideo talks with Jenn about the pressures, guilt, and strict rules that guarded the childhoods of second generation Moonies.

TRANSCRIPT

News Announcer [00:00:02] A decade ago the Reverend Sun Myung Moon was accused of controlling the minds of young people creating so-called Moonies. So called Moonies,  followers of the Reverend Sun Myung Moon, head of the Unification Church who became well-known in the early 80s for his mass wedding ceremonies.

Interpreter [00:00:16] Do you pledge to establish an eternal family with which God can be happy.

Crowd [00:00:22] Yes!

Interpreter [00:00:22] We are talking about absolute fidelity here. If anybody deviates from this God-given principle they are bound to hell.

News Announcer [00:00:35] But the church has a different plan for the second generation.

2nd Gen [00:00:38] I felt like we weren't equipped for the world. You know we aren't just like this bubble.

2nd Gen [00:00:42] To me it sounds culty. I know it's what brought our parents to church but it's not what keeps me in the church.

2nd Gen [00:00:48] Then if I'm not doing everything that they want me to do or I don't believe everything that they believe. We still have this like line that connects us.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:01:00] My name is Hideo Higashibaba. I grew up in a cult called the Unification Church. You might know them as the Moonies. This is Growing Up Moonie, stories from the childhoods of people born into the church. Like me.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:01:24] I was a Moonie until about four years ago. When I left, my life was ripped into chaos and I had a lot of trouble coping without the church. I had to find new ways to make sense of the world. In my journey, I reached out to other people born into the church to ask them about their childhoods what their lives were like.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:01:45] One of those people is Jenn. Jenn Is not her real name. She asked to change it for this podcast because people finding out you're a Moonie can make life, well, awkward. More than that it can sometimes make it hard to keep friends or even get a job.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:02:03] Yeah. We haven't seen each other in what like Oh it's been a minute.

Jenn [00:02:08] Yeah, I don't know maybe like six years or maybe more.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:02:13] I saw Jen and her family every week at church in Gloucester, Massachusetts at a place called Morning Garden. It's a retreat center owned by the church. An enormous mansion with a chapel where we held services members weren't allowed in most of the house mostly because it was reserved for the founder.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:02:32] Sun Myung Moon and his family. We mostly just use the chapel and the kitchen. Moon bought Morning Garden in the 70s for his fishing ministry, which basically means he bought a whole bunch of boats and got a lot of church members to fish for him. It was the beginning of a global fishing business which Moon used to fund his religious empire. Morning Garden is right on the ocean, so there's a dock where we would swim and an old stone tower down by the water.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:03:03] There's another tower on a hill overlooking Gloucester Harbor and several acres of woods which we kids spent hours playing in. Jen and I were in the same Sunday school class and groups at camp and workshops. So we saw each other a lot. I called her to ask how she felt about growing up in the church.

Jenn [00:03:22] I said I don't know all my memories of growing up are like really great. I don't really have anything negative to say. For the most part I think like sometimes looking back I can see how some things might have been negative. But honestly like I think personally that we had like a great childhood.

Jenn [00:03:39] I just remember like running around at morning garden and we would all hang out and like going to church was like pretty fun. I think when we were younger once I once I became a teenager I was like hated going but I know when I was a kid I actually really liked to go and like going to see everyone and hanging out after church and just like going swimming at Morning Garden or having cookouts or whatever and I think it always felt like a big family.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:04:04] That was the idea one family under God. People who joined the church as adults are called First Generation people born into the church like Jenn and I are called second generation or second gen. Another name for us is blessed children or BCs and the second generation, these special children, were the whole reason behind the huge mass weddings Moonies were famous for. To create so-called "true families" free from the sins of the world.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:04:36] The idea was that if the Messiah, Moon, blessed the marriages then the children that came from those couples would be free of Original Sin. That's right. According to my parents I don't have original sin. So there. Anyway not having Original Sin is kind of a big deal. And because of that, we Blessed Children were told we were special. That we were destined to continue God's Will to win the world back from Satan. And it was kind of a lot for kids who still have to go to school with a bunch of normal Original Sinner people.

Jenn [00:05:14] I feel like we were always kind of made to seem like we were better than other people because we were second gen. Or yeah, just because we throw our lineage and being born without Original Sin or at least like that's what it said I always felt like we were made to look like we were better or supposed to be perfect.

Jenn [00:05:34] I think like going to school are like so many of the things I took part in. I've met someone like the best people that, you know, they're not in the church and they're not BCs and like I don't know. To me I never...you can't look at that as like a bad thing or that they are not as good as me or anything like that. So I think that was a big thing for me. Even in high school or anything like that.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:05:57]  It seems like for you you were like a part of the public school system like you were really a part of your Gloucester community as well as the church community. So seems like that cross pollination could happen more easily.

Jenn [00:06:07] Yeah. No that's right because yeah. Even like me and my siblings we were always like very involved in sports or other stuff like that within our high school. So we always hung out I think we hung out with BCs more than actual BCs. So for us it was kind of like, most people didn't even know we were Moonies or anything like that.

Jenn [00:06:25] I still to this day, like they don't know because we were just always with like other kids a lot. So I think it was very different for me. Rather than you I know you like your school is very small and very closed off kind of from other stuff. And I think your parents were a lot more strict than mine with certain things.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:06:46] That is definitely true. Because being born into a cult wasn't enough, my parents also put me in Waldorf School, an alternative private education where kids don't learn to read until third grade, and there's a lot of knitting and poems and lamb's wool but that's a different called for a different podcast. My school was really small and I was an awkward, nerdy, poor, hyper-religious kid who got a note exempting me from sex ed. I did not have a lot of friends. I played sports but came home straight after and did my homework. I once asked my mom if I could sleep over at a friend's house and she said, "why?". Jenn on the other hand, went to public school, had non church friends, did sports and went to parties. Her parents wanted her and her siblings to follow the values of the church but they also wanted their kids to have pretty normal lives.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:07:47] I was wondering, were you ever afraid that your friends at school would find out your Moonie.

Jenn [00:07:51] Yeah I was so afraid. I was terrified of that.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:07:55] Well what did you think was going to happen if they found out.

Jenn [00:07:59] I don't I think it was, I mean I had even had like no one had ever asked if I was a Moonie but he would ask others kids were Moonies and never really. Yeah. So that I would get nervous and think they were gonna find out about me and it was never like...I guess it was seen kind of negatively but people just more found it weird and it was always this thing where no one really knew much about it they just knew we were supposed to get like arranged marriages and everyone that we like lived in a castle in Morning Garden.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:08:29] The city of Gloucester has changed a lot since the Moonies rolled in 40 years ago. Back then people would scream at Moonies in the street telling them to leave and giving them the finger and mooning them. I don't actually know if that's true but I read it somewhere once and I think it's hilarious. Anyway, things have calmed down a lot since then but church members are still cautious like Jenn asking to be anonymous. Moonies didn't live in a castle in Morning Garden and we went to regular school. Still, I know you don't have to be physically confined to be controlled. Second Gen we're told from birth that we were separate from the world, better than the world. So we had to act like it. We were told to strive for perfection for complete control over our bodies through our minds. That meant proper thoughts and proper action at all times. No swearing, no parties, no alcohol, and definitely no dating. We were representatives of God and Moon. Wherever we went and that was a lot to carry around.

Jenn [00:09:34] If you're not following every single rule you doing everything you feel very guilty. And I found that with a lot of things like if I was doing any little thing wrong or kind of you know like you think other things or you think you do something with the church might be wrong you start to feel kind of guilty or at least for me to have that way.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:09:52] Do you remember like a specific instance of that?

Jenn [00:09:56] I think I'm trying to. Even like if people talked like badly about the Church not knowing I was part of a Moonie family I would feel like this guilt of not sticking up for it or you know even if I was at a party where there was alcohol I would feel this like huge events guilt.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:10:13] That you wouldn't even drink it and you would fee guilty.

Jenn [00:10:17] It was just that I was involved in that type of thing. Or anything, or even if you if I had a crush on a boy I would feel very guilty. Because that wasn't supposed to happen. And stuff like that that's very normal. Like you would I would feel very guilty about just because we were drilled in our heads that it was wrong and you're not supposed to be doing that. And we were supposed to say on this specific path where it's kind of like a crazy path if you think about it like what was expected of us.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:10:47] So in your mind what was expected of us. Like what's that path.

Jenn [00:10:51] I think it was just that we would like live life just you know, in the church and like just following those rules and growing up and getting matched at like 16. You know, basically being married off so young and like I don't remember it like a couple of people getting matched or Blessed at 16. If you think about like getting married at 16 is insane. You don't know who you are. You don't know what's going on and you don't know what you want to do in life.

Jenn [00:11:20] And like looking back thinking, I don't know I always had it in my head like I was to be married, like very young and you know just always be with whoever I was blessed you and you always. I remember even we would talk about it like oh I wonder who we're gonna get married. We talk about who it's going to be.

Jenn [00:11:35] Yeah all the time. And it was so I feel like it was so much expected that we'd be married, have children and that was like our life. Like I never really I don't know, I don't even remember ever talking about, you know, going to college or like what type of job I would get or anything like that. More, the more important thing was like getting matched and blessed and having a family.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:11:56] Some second gen were matched by the leader like their parents. Some were matched by their parents. The Blessing is the wedding part, and we talked about it constantly as kids. I remember Jenn and me at workshops and church camp imagining who are husbands would be, wondering if they would be from a different country or speak a different language. The reality is that a lot of Second Gen didn't end up getting matched or Blessed. The older blessed children got, the less they went to church, especially once they finished high school. More and more their lives blended into the outside world.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:12:32] So would you consider yourself to be in the church. Like do you still go to church?

Jenn [00:12:37] No I don't go to church. I wouldn't say I'm like out of it but I wouldn't say I'm necessarily in if that...I don't know that it's possible, but I think what I mostly hold on to is that I definitely believe in God for sure and like the creation and all those things I believe in that. But I do see how some things in the church were working toward bringing peace to the world and bringing people together of different cultures and backgrounds. And I think with the whole Blessing of matching people, I don't know, for the Blessing, the big marriage ceremony, I think certain things about that is right where you're matching people completely different so that the kids turn out for the better.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:13:29] Wait, you're saying that is or is not...?

Jenn [00:13:32] I think that aspect is interesting and I think I do somewhat agree with it. Where you know if you take two opposites like to make the kids better people. That is a very self sacrificing thing to do.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:13:44] The Blessing didn't just cleanse the second generation of Original Sin. It was also the key to world peace. Moon said if people from opposite or even enemy countries or cultures got married and had babies then their families would love the children. The theory was the more different the cultures the more powerful the reconciliation. That's how my dad a Japanese guy and my mom a white American WASP got together you know because of World War II. Jenn and I, all second generation, were born from the Blessing without Original Sin but also with the specific task of making the world a better place to advance God's will for world peace. That's a hard thing to shake even when you learn other things or your opinion changes like Jenn.

Jenn [00:14:35] I think looking at a lot of parents that we're blessed and even second gen too I do think I don't agree with that. Just looking how unhappy some people are and how it affected the kids as well. If your parents are always fighting or never speaking or stuff like that and there's really like not I mean I guess there's like some love there but I think in some blessings there is just it's just is not fair. I think for the parents or for the children at all. Yeah, so I don't know if that whole thing I kind of...I don't know, I think I was very lucky to have, like you know, my parents go on for the most part they fight of course which any married couple fights.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:15:20] And unmarried couples too.

Jenn [00:15:24] Exactly, any couples, but there's going to be fights and there's going to be huge blow outs. But I think a lot of kids were affected by it in a negative way. And I think a lot of people kind of just got Blessed because they thought that's what the Church was saying you have to do. And that's I don't know it's that I can't...I can't fully agree. It is like a big thing that I just think is unfair.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:16:01] So for it...it sounds like from what you're saying, you're not going to get matched or Blessed like that's not a plan for you.

Jenn [00:16:07] Yeah I don't know, I always like...honestly I would love to be married to a Blessed Child. I think, not one that's like crazy about the church or anything like that but just because because they have that experience and it's very relatable like this is a hard childhood or anything and I think it is a huge part of us of how we grew up. It's hard to explain and it's really hard to relate to. So I think like I would love to be married to a BC but I do not want to get married to someone random like I have always said I want to pick who I'm with, I need to know them, and it's not, I wouldn't that I wouldn't go to the Blessing and just get like a random person.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:16:46] So Jenn's relationship with the church is complicated. She's kind of in and kind of out and that's not possible for me. I can't be myself: queer and transgender and brown and to be a part of the church and my family. But Jenn is white, she's straight, she's cisgender, just generally more accepted by the world.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:17:11] This division between who we are and how the church treats us is something I've been thinking a lot about. Something we'll explore more throughout this podcast. Second Gen we're told to prepare for whoever God chose for us. It could be someone we knew, but it also could be a total stranger even someone who didn't speak the same language as us. For Moonies commitment to God to Moon and his wife and world peace were more important than anything else. So as kids looking forward to our marriages...

Jenn [00:17:50] I kind of always like had hoped that I would end up with them I actually liked. But I think it was you kind of just had to have it in your head of like if you end up with someone horrible or like somebody you don't get along with at all or don't like at all then you're just stuck in it. Yeah I mean I always had hoped for it to be romantic and happy and I'd get along with the person but it was also like if I didn't then that's just who I was with kind of thing.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:18:26] There was nothing you could do about it.

Jenn [00:18:27] Right. And it's just gonna be like that and like you were supposed to love whoever you ended up with.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:18:31] Did did you notice that those expectations changed once you started dating. Like when you were in relationships you were like, Oh that's actually not how it has to be or.

Jenn [00:18:39] Yeah. No I think I realized that and also just being around like other like my friends who were dating or like even being in college and where relationships are more serious than like in high school and you can see like that give and take between couples and where. Of course it's not always easy but like the two people love each other and get along well and they have similar interests and that's where I kind of I realized like, oh hey like I'd way rather have this than end up with someone I can't stand.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:19:07] Or that you don't speak the same language as.

Jenn [00:19:10] Right! Like you share nothing in common. Not even from, not from the same country. Nothing.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:19:17] Oh that's so intense. People know it though.

Jenn [00:19:21] Yeah I remember it. There was always this thing is like you shouldn't be matched or Blessed to someone that is the same as you.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:19:27] Right. It wouldn't be like I don't like this we we equated like being a holy and god like and like you know good with being as different as possible and in, in that, by that metric my parents are like should be the perfect couple for their opposite. I mean they're like Asian and American but also like just personality-wise just nothing.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:19:51] In the entire time I lived with them, I never saw my parents enjoy each other's company. Actually, I don't think I have ever seen them show anything but open or passive aggression to each other. There was one time when my dad was in a really bad car accident. When my mom got the news, I remember she looked worried and it took me a moment to realize she was worried for my dad. I'd never seen her show any kind of concern for him. Usually, they just tried to avoid each other even at home. There was a lot of fighting especially when I was younger. I learned to fall asleep with the sound of shouting outside my bedroom door. To Moonies, my parents situation is unfortunate and a bit extreme but not sad or even regrettable. Love and happiness was just not the most important thing in a marriage. And that's what kids like me and Jenn grew up seeing and believing.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:20:50] How do you feel like growing up in the church with Blessings and matching things and children and all of these things. How did that affect how you saw love or How do you perceive love or your expectations around love.

Jenn [00:21:04] That's a good question. I think I definitely saw love as something very different than I do now. I think I more, I don't know. I don't think I ever really understood like what love was. I think I more I looked at most people's marriages as like or Blessings as you just weren't supposed to break those. I never really saw too much love between a lot of parents. I think like I think there's there is love there. But it's not like...I think it's like a sacrificial love. More than like an actual love.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:21:47] Yes! That is exactly what it is it's like martyr love.

Jenn [00:21:50] Right. It's like I'm supposed to be here and I'm supposed to be in this Blessing type thing. And I think there is, of course like you know everyone cares about each other but it's not because they didn't choose each other. I think it's...It's a different type of love. I don't know. I don't know how to explain it. But I don't know. It's kind of like a harsher type of love. It's not like an easy love at all.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:22:16] On the other side of it I wonder if that can really be considered love at all. Things between my parents cooled as I got older and they fought less but I could still feel the venom between them throughout high school and until I left home. Now Jenn and I are grown. She moved back home after finishing college to save money. She works, dates, goes out with friends, and she wants to open her own business someday.

Jenn [00:22:43] I'm in a completely different place than I thought I would be when we were growing up. But yeah I mean I would say I'm very happy and I live like a very normal life. I would say.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:22:56] So what what did you where, did you think you would...like if you asked you're like 10 year old self like where you gonna be when you're...are you 24 now?

Jenn [00:23:04] Yeah I'm 24.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:23:04] Yeah. Like what were you gonna be when you're 24 like what. What do you think. Like what would did you imagine.

Jenn [00:23:11] Wow. I Oh oh yeah I definitely thought I would be married by now, for sure. I think I thought I would be living in a different country. Because I think I always wanted to be blessed to someone from like Australia or Ireland.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:23:25] Sure.

Jenn [00:23:26] Or somewhere in those areas which probably would never have happened but...

Hideo Higashibaba [00:23:29] It's far too, those people are white. That's far too sinful.

Jenn [00:23:32] There's no way I would definitely be in like Japan but...

Hideo Higashibaba [00:23:36] Oh no!

Jenn [00:23:38] Yeah. I don't know if I ever really pictured my future too much because it was like so based off of who I was gonna get Blessed to. So there, it was so hard to like pick a lane because it was always like it was going to involve two people's lives not just my own. And I think now I'm more focused on my life and where I'm going. So yeah I don't know if I ever really pictured so much where I was gonna be because it was so up in the air. Who I would end up with.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:24:17] Yeah absolutely. I totally get that, like it's so hard to plan when you're planning for somebody else who doesn't even exist yet.

Jenn [00:24:23] Right. Exactly. Yeah that's not true you're planning for someone you don't even know who they are.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:24:28] Yeah and they don't know who you are and it's like it's so hypothetical.

Jenn [00:24:33] Yeah that's so true actually.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:24:35] Yeah.

Jenn [00:24:36] I never really thought about that.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:24:40] It didn't take much for Jenn to stop centering her life on a non-existent husband and family and start to focus on her own interests and career. But now that I've left the church I'm struggling to know what I want to do with my life. I just can't picture my future like I used to. I have trouble knowing what I want.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:25:10] Next time on growing up Moonie...

Interpreter [00:25:12] Homosexuals lesbians or even those who go after free sex life. If they practice that kind of unprincipled life they are less than animals.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:25:23] That's on the next episode of Growing Up Moonie.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:25:32] Growing up Moonie was written by me. This episode was edited and produced by Quinn Myers with music by Podington Bear. If you like what you're hearing, please take a moment to leave us some stars or review wherever you listen. It really helps other people find the podcast. My name is Hideo Higashibaba. Thanks for listening.

When Hideo Higashibaba left the Moonies he had no idea how he was going to survive without them. He wondered if other kids born into the church had as much trouble adjusting to adulthood, even if they didn’t leave. In this first episode Hideo reflects on his own strange origins and the history of the Moonies.

TRANSCRIPT

Hideo Higashibaba [00:00:03] Thanks for listening to growing up. Moonie I am so excited to share these stories with you. Just a heads up to our listeners this episode has mentions of suicidal ideation and mental health crisis. Please take care of yourself as you listen. And now for the first time ever Growing up Moonie.

News Announcer [00:00:23] A decade ago, the Reverend Sun Myung Moon was accused of controlling the minds of young people creating so-called Moonies, so called Moonies, followers of the Reverend Sun Myung Moon head of the Unification Church who became well-known in the early 80s for his mass wedding ceremonies.

Interpreter [00:00:38] Do you pledge to establish an eternal family with which God can be happy.

Crowd [00:00:45] YES.

Interpreter [00:00:48] We are talking about absolute fidelity. If anybody deviates from this God given principle, they are bound to hell.

News Announcer [00:00:56] But the church has a different plan for the second generation.

2nd Gen [00:00:59] I felt like we weren't equipped for the world. You know we aren't just like this bubble.

2nd Gen [00:01:05] To me it sounds culty. I know it's what brought our parents to church but not what keeps me in the church. If I'm not doing everything that they want me to do or I don't believe everything that they believe we still have this like line that connects us.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:01:21] My name is Hideo Higashibaba. I grew up in a cult called the Unification Church. You might know them as the Moonies. I was in the church for 22 years and then four years ago I left.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:01:37] Almost overnight. I lost my faith my community my family my mind. And since then I have tried to not kill myself. Finish school, find work, and peace a life together on my own. For me, leaving the Unification Church was and is deeply liberating but equally terrifying. There are times when it feels like a dream and other times when it is all too real. When I first left I felt completely out of my depth; the entire way I made sense of the world was gone.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:02:13] My explanation for everything from why the sky is blue to Why Bad Things Happen to Good People was gone in the space where meaning and purpose used to be was just a vacuum of infinite nothingness. I went insane. With time therapy medication and a lot of generous support from friends, I survived. I stabilized but recreating meaning is a lonely process.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:02:42] I started to wonder if other people had as much trouble when they tried to live outside the church. I wondered if they felt as ill equipped for life as I did even if they didn't leave. So I reached out to some people who were born into the church and asked them what their childhoods were like and who they are now. This podcast is some of their stories. This is growing up Moonie.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:03:11] In case you don't know much about them let me give you a little background on the Moonies. The Unification Church, also known as the Unification Movement, was founded in Korea in 1954 by a man named Sun Myung Moon. He said he was the Second Coming of Christ, the Messiah of all humanity, and that Jesus told him to unite all Christian denominations to bring world peace. In the late 1950s Moon sent missionaries to Japan and the United States. They recruited people on sidewalks and college campuses. By the 1970s there was a church center in every state and a few thousand members Moonies became especially famous for their mass weddings.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:04:00] My parents were married in 1982 in New York City at an intimate romantic venue known as Madison Square Garden. They shared this special day with 2074 other couples that got married at the same time.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:04:18] And thanks to the internet I have footage of the wedding. This man is out on a roll.

Interpreter [00:04:24] Do you pledge to be the center of love before the society nation world and universe based upon an ideal family.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:04:36] It was a sea of white dresses and black suits the men wore white gloves. The women veils. It's hard to make out any faces in the crowd.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:04:46] I think my parents got stuck up in the balcony somewhere. Moon stood on the red carpeted stage with his wife. They both wore white robes and crowns their red and gold thrones behind them.

Interpreter [00:05:05] I proclaim that these two thousand seventy five couples are wedded before God. The True Parents the world and the universe. On July 1st 1982.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:05:23] Just a few months before this special day my parents were just acquaintances. My mom told me she found my dad to be awkward and unpleasant. My dad thought my mom was cute. Then they were put together by Sun Myung Moon in what's called a matching ceremony. In the ceremony, a small crowd of people gathered in a room with women on one side and men on the other. Moon stood at the front and pointed at my dad who stood up. Moon spoke to my dad through an interpreter. Then he turned to the women's side of the room and questioned a couple of people. Finally he pointed at my mom and that was that. My mom and dad then left the room to discuss whether they wanted to say yes to the match or disobey an order from the Messiah and returning Christ. They were married a few months later and had four kids. Me and my three sisters.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:06:17] I guess you could say we had a pretty weird childhood although I didn't know it at the time. My mom is actually a minister in the church so it was like everyday was Sunday school. She saw God working in everything from a lucky scratch-off ticket to a flying bird formation to Hurricane Katrina. Everything was an indication that God was working in the world and she passed that belief down to me and my sisters. As a kid, I knew my family and I were different but the main reason I knew that my church was weird was my extended family my mom's family. My grandparents, aunts and uncles mocked us for our beliefs and told me and my sisters we were brainwashed and that my mother was weak-minded that we belonged to a cult. It made for some pretty tense family dynamics. Despite my extended family. I was a proud Unificationist, a proud Moonie. When I was 18, I told my parents I wanted an arranged marriage just like they got. In my heart. I knew what Moon told us about the world was right and it was my job to protect myself from anything that would contradict that. And that worked until about four years ago.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:07:36] The transition out of the Moonies has been a lonely, heart wrenching, infuriating, strange, and fascinating process. I've learned more about the church itself. The rumors about its dark origins, the racist misogynist ideas it holds and propagates, its deep seated homophobia. The Unification Church is just the religious part of an enormous empire. Through the church Moon's family owns restaurants, fish distribution companies, at least one gun manufacturer, newspapers a ski resort, a soccer team, and billions of dollars in properties around the world. The list goes on and on.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:08:17] Don't get me wrong. The religious part of this empire is pretty big too. There are still church centers in almost every state and on almost every continent. Moonies still hold mass weddings now with live simulcast, so even more people can be married at once. What I keep coming back to is how it felt to be a part of all that yet totally oblivious to most of it. Moon's cult created and shaped the lives of thousands of people including me. We all share this strange experience of belonging to a cult but we all coped with that reality differently. It affected who we were and who we became. Those are the stories you'll hear here on growing up. Moonie.

2nd Gen [00:09:11] I feel like we were always kind of made to seem like we were better than other people.

2nd Gen [00:09:16] Once we got there I was just like oh my gosh I don't want to do this but it was kind of that like everyone's watching. You need to make this work. It's going to be difficult and you just kind of accept that.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:09:29] I feel like the closer I get to being who I am the further I get away from the people who raised me.

2nd Gen [00:09:34] I don't care about doctrine or dogma. I don't really care for it if it if it splits up people that you love.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:09:43] That's coming up on growing up. Moonie. Growing up Moonie is written by me. I also produced this episode. Quinn Meyers edited music by Kai Zabriski and Kai Engel. Please subscribe to this podcast and write in reviews wherever you're listening. It really helps this project reach a wider audience.

Hideo Higashibaba [00:10:06] For more information go to Growing up Moonie dot com. My name is Hideo Higashibaba. Thanks for listening.

Join cult survivor Hideo Higashibaba as he talks with people who were also born into the Unification Church, aka the Moonies. Growing Up Moonie is a podcast of stories of the awkwardness, pain, struggles, and even a little hope that can come from growing up in a cult. Subscribe now and get all 9 episodes in your feed March 4.