Suleika Jaouad joins our show today to discuss her extraordinary book "Between Two Kingdoms." Suleika shares her story of receiving an early-in-life cancer diagnosis and the way that experience changed her relationship to her sense of community and hope. 

Suleika is a journalist, writer, speaker, and cancer survivor. She has written for The New York Times, Vogue, and NPR and her memoir “Between Two Kingdoms” details her journey of being treated and recovering from leukemia at the age of twenty two. 

Join Jen and Suleika as they discuss the following:

• Suleika's experience of being diagnosed with cancer at a young age and how it changed her perspective in life.

• The vital role of community and support during challenging times, and how Suleika's own community rallied around her during her illness.

• The challenges of writing a memoir and going from a journalist to a memoirist, professionally

• How to practice self compassion while experiencing “Big Grief” in all it’s different stages 

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I think as a culture we're so focused on positivity and self-improvement and on living our best lives that we sort of forget how to live in discomfort.” - Suleika Jouad 

“We live in a culture where we're told that if we only work hard enough, we can live the life that we've always wanted to live. I've been told that my whole life. And you know, there's that saying that when you make plans, god laughs.” - Suleika Jouad 

“I have a post-it note on my desk that's sort of my guiding light in terms of what I'm trying to do when I write. And it says, if you want to write a good book, write what you don't want others to know about you. Yeah. And if you want to write a great book, write what you don't want to know about yourself.” - Suleika Jouad 

“With the distance of time, I see that what I initially thought of as a complete loss of my identity was actually an invitation to get closer to my truer self.” - Suleika Jouad 

“I was a planner, I was a doer. I was someone who had a one year plan and a five year plan and a 10 year plan, and all of that went up in smoke when I got sick. Yeah. Um, and I realized that for much of my adult life, all four years of it at that point, uh, I really summed up my sense of self based on achievement, based on my work ethic, based on my output, based on my grade point average. Yep. And all of that was stripped away from me when I got sick. I lost my job overnight. I was dependent on my parents as much as I've been since elementary school. That's right. I lost my independence, even my ability to shower alone, which for someone who doesn't like to ask for help, who had always thought of myself as fiercely independent, that was a hard pill to swallow.” -Suleika Jouad 

Guest Links Suleika Jouad Website

Suleika’s Instagram - @suleikajaouad

Suleika’s Twitter - @suleikajaouad

Suleik’s Facebook - @SuleikaJaouadPage

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode “Wolfish” by Erica Berry

“Heads of the Colored People” by Nafissa Thompson-Spires

“Nonviolent Communication” by Marshall B. Rosenberg PhD 

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

Jen’s Instagram

Jen’s Twitter

Jen’s Facebook

Jen’s YouTube

Are you smack dab in the middle of the Sandwich Years? That precarious time where you’re squeezed between the demands of caring for aging parents and still supporting children? We’re here for you, and we’ve got a friend to the show who is living it out in real time, sharing how she’s getting through it all. Jenny Hutt was the host of the Just Jenny Show on Sirius XM and is now hosting her own daily podcast–all while dealing with the long-term care of her father (and his recent death) and the launching of her adult children out into the world. Jenny and Jen discuss unique issues relevant to the Sandwich Generation:

• Learning to re-calibrate your role as a parent in the lives of your newly “launched into the world” kids

• Dealing with unresolved parent/child issues that sometimes arise with the death of a parent

• Recognizing generational anxiety and equipping ourselves and our children with the tools to handle it

• The importance of relying on a strong network of family and friends to draw from during this time (not being afraid to ask for help). 

• Having the hard conversations with your parents about being prepared for their passing (and also making sure you’re taking care of that for your children too)

So whether you’re managing being part of the sandwich generation right now, or you’re mentally preparing yourself for it, or you know someone who is facing it head on, there’s something for all of us to take away from this candid and vulnerable convo with Jen and Jenny.

* * *

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“Somebody should have said to us before we had kidS: ‘you're gonna have children and you're gonna be tired and it's gonna be fun when they're babies, but it's also gonna be awful when they're babies. And then, they're gonna grow up and they're gonna leave you. And when they leave you, you're gonna feel like they're gone for good. And you're also gonna feel like you are not gonna make it.’” - Jenny Hutt

“While your parents are still healthy is when you have to have the conversation [about their affairs] and it's pretty simple. It's things like if there are bank accounts, designate somebody to automatically have the bank account upon your death.” - Jenny Hutt

“Ask [your older parents] all the questions you want answers to, because if you don't ask them now, as uncomfortable as they might be, you're never gonna be able to ask them.” - Jenny Hutt

“We all find our purpose at different points in our lives. I think that one of my biggest purposes is to show that you can live through things that feel like you can't live through them.” - Jenny Hutt

Guest’s Links Website

Just Jenny Podcast

Instagram

Twitter

Facebook

YouTube

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Bunny Eyez Eyewear

For You When I Am Gone by Rabbi Steve Leder

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

Jen’s Instagram

Jen’s Twitter

Jen’s Facebook

Jen’s YouTube

Another special bonus episode from the “Make Me Care About” podcast from the Gates Foundation with our own Jen Hatmaker talking with another amazing expert about things we may not know about and if we did–we would definitely care! When it goes well, giving birth can be a wonderful experience, but when it goes wrong, it can be deadly for mother and child alike. Too often, where you live, your access to quality care, and in some places–the color of your skin–determines whether or not you live or die during birth.

In this episode, we have the privilege of hearing from journalist, activist, and mom Elaine Welteroth. 

Join Jen and Elaine as they discuss:

• How many women die every year during childbirth and pregnancy 

• The factors and risks contributing to mortality rates

• Why these deaths are preventable 

• The increased likelihood of death for Black mothers

• Why the United States has the highest number of maternal deaths among high income countries

Gates Foundation & Guest Links

Make Me Care About Podcast Series

Gates Foundation 

Elaine Welteroth’s website

Resources for this Episode

Gender equality strategy

Maternal, infant, and child health 

Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website

Jen’s Instagram

Jen’s Twitter

Jen’s Facebook

Jen’s YouTube

In this episode of our For the Love of the Middle series, renowned clinical psychologist Dr. Shefali returns to the show to discuss her concept of conscious parenting. Those of us in the middle of life who may still be parenting kids at home, or adjusting to parenting adult children who have just launched out into the world–or in any season of the parenting journey, really–will find much to learn as we look back (and forward) at our parenting patterns. Dr. Shefali provides a step-by-step roadmap to help free parents and their children from toxic patterns and expectations, while building a lasting meaningful bond with them. Using her book as a guide, she will introduce us to the five patterns of ego, show us some varying parenting styles (including helping Jen unpack her own parenting style), develop a mindful focus on self-control, and tips on how we can encourage our adult children to parent themselves. Jen and the good doctor will hit some big topics that will inform not only parents, but those of us who wish to discover how we were parented, and how it impacts us now; including: 

• Walking through the definition of conscious parenting and the three stages of the parenting map

• Debunking the notion that as parents we are supposed to create happy, perfect superhumans by following traditional parenting rules

• Dismissing the notion that there are good kids and bad kids—and how to avoid using these labels  

• Revealing the five ego patterns parents that parents might not even realize inform their quest to raise amazing children

• The three reasons why children act out or misbehave and how you can learn not to shame them for it

• The results of over-parenting and how it shows up in your adult children

It’s never too late to become a mindful parent and set an intention to allow your children to become centerstage in their own lives.

* * *

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“The evolution of the planet depends on the evolution of the parent.” - Dr. Shefali

“Everyone wants a new tomorrow. But what we don't realize is that a new future comes with an absolute willingness to disrupt the past.” - Dr. Shefali

“There is no such thing as a good kid or a bad kid. We put these labels based on an egoic agenda. So, what kind of kids are there? Just kids–just humans who are terribly flawed like we are, and terribly, but amazingly blissful like we are. They're just this unique combo and they defy labels.” - Dr. Shefali

“The good girl taken to the extreme becomes self-sacrificial and she begins to lose her sense of self–it typically happens with girls. Then she's in her mid forties and she's like, ‘who am I?’” - Dr. Shefali 

“Conscious parenting is not something you are, it's something you become.” - Dr. Shefali

“Punishment, shaming, blaming is never sustainable. I cannot tell you how many times a day I tell parents, ‘Listen, you appear to get control in the moment, but long term, it's going to be unforgiving.’” - Dr. Shefali

“How do we constantly show our presence [to our adult children]? Unequivocal cheerleading. ‘I'm thinking of you. I miss you. I'm remembering you. I I adore you.’ Letting them know they are on our mind, but not involved in their day-to-day. - Dr. Shefali

“When the ego crumbles, proportionately the heart expands, and you then are just this heart-centered being able to connect to other people in a very attuned, compassionate, genuine way. And your children will feel it.” - Dr. Shefali

Guest’s Links

Dr. Shefali’s website

Dr. Shefali’s Instagram

Dr. Shefali’s Facebook

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

“The Conscious Parent” by Dr. Shefali

“The Parenting Map” by Dr. Shefali

Dr. Shefali’s previous interview on For the Love

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

Jen’s Instagram

Jen’s Twitter

Jen’s Facebook

Jen’s YouTube

Another special bonus episode from the “Make Me Care About” podcast from the Gates Foundation with our own Jen Hatmaker talking with another amazing expert about things we may not know or care about, but should! This episode gives us the privilege of speaking with Surabhi Rajaram, a Program Officer at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation who focuses on improving immunization delivery. We dive deep into the world of safe syringes, and why they are so important in saving lives.

Surabhi Rajaram is a true expert in her field, with years of experience at the forefront of improving global health. Today she shares her knowledge on the features of an auto-disabled syringe, and how it physically prevents the user from being able to withdraw the syringe again, ultimately preventing the spread of illness.

Join Jen and Surabhi as they discuss:

• Why safe syringes are so important to effective vaccine delivery

• The importance of investing in scalable syringe manufacturing

• Improving immunization delivery for a safer world

• How preparing for disease threats like COVID requires syringe innovation 

Our guest shares their life’s work around investing in safe and effective syringe manufacturing and delivery and how each of us can make a difference in the world of global health by learning more about this important topic. 

Gates Foundation & Guest Links

Make Me Care About Podcast Series

Gates Foundation 

Guest Surabhi Rajaram’s website

Resources for this Episode

Vaccine Development and Surveillance

Long Term Vaccine Development in Africa

PATH Syringe GAP analysis

UNICEF Syringes explainer video

Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website

Jen’s Instagram

Jen’s Twitter

Jen’s Facebook

Jen’s YouTube

Continuing in our For the Love of the Middle series, we’re having a conversation about something that may impact us as we hit those middle years (or sooner)–caring for our aging parents. With us to be our guide through this sometimes difficult journey is Michelle Boyaner, the director of the documentary film "It's Not a Burden: The Humor and Heartache of Raising Elderly Parents.” As a storyteller, Michelle felt compelled to talk about this particular stage of life, and decided to film her own journey through it with her mother to help others embrace this unique time in a family’s evolution. Jen and Michelle explore the highs and the lows of caregiving for aging parents and how to stay sane and open hearted during the process. 

Michelle Boyaner is an award-winning filmmaker, writer, and educator who founded production company Greenie Films with her wife, Barbara Greene. Together they have written, directed and produced a variety of short and feature films that tell stories of caring for aging parents, living with HIV and the challenges of mental illness–all told with their signature humor and deep capacity for compassion. 

Join Jen and Michelle as they discuss: 

• How to know when it's time to step in with your aging parents

• Honoring and managing your parents feelings of not wanting to be a burden

• Finding humor in the challenging moments 

• Why caregivers feel so lonely, even when there are so many in the U.S. 

• Moving from anger and frustration with difficult parental relationships to forgiveness 

We hope you’ll feel less alone on your caregiving journey as Michelle provides practical advice and encouragement as well as some tough love for those in the middle of this common but not often discussed major life experience.

* * *

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“How do you know it’s the right time to step in? If you see a cognitive difference, if there's a change like they're forgetting things–for example, my mom left her keys on the top of the car and sat in the car and didn't know why she couldn't start the car. That’s when you might want to consider stepping in. But how do I start that conversation? How can I place my hand on theirs and then gently sort of take the reins? It’s a tough thing to consider.”  - Michelle Boyaner

“By the time we get to this place in life [of caring for our] parents, you are playing a montage of their greatest hits and misses, right?” - Michelle Boyaner

“It’s important to stay engaged with the humor of all situations if you can. That humor is this little cup of water that helps us in between the hard moments. Caring for aging parents has its absurd moments and leaning into the humor of it can sustain us.” - Michelle Boyaner 

“You're going to make mistakes. But the thing that becomes most important for those going through caring for an aging parent is to try to find support. Try to find others who have been going through the same thing and ask questions. Talk about how you're feeling. Take care of yourself to fill your tank so that you can help fill your parents' tank.” - Michelle Boyaner 

Michelle’s Links

Twitter

Facebook

Instagram

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Greenie Films Webpage

Greenie Films: Packed in a Trunk: The Lost Art of Edith Lake Wilkinson, It’s Not a Burden; The Humor and Heartache of Raising Elderly Parents, All Around the Nation, Finished Life by Michelle Boyaner

Instagram Account by Heather Spooner: Letter League 

Liz Hammond’s Poem:  “The women who walk us home”

Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website

Jen’s Instagram

Jen’s Twitter

Jen’s Facebook

Jen’s YouTube

Hey there, For the Love Podcast community! We’re excited to share some bonus  episodes from a new podcast from the Gates Foundation, hosted by our very own Jen Hatmaker! It's all about getting to know the innovators who are out there changing the world and opening our minds to things that we might not otherwise think about much, like this first episode–poop! You can look forward to several of these bonus episodes popping into your feed that feature amazing conversations with experts who have shared their insights on the importance of things like sanitation systems, syringes, and even digital money.

Our first episode in the series is all about…Poop! Jen speaks with expert Shannon Yee, an associate professor at the G.W.W. School of Mechanical Engineering at the Georgia Institute of Technology.

 Jen and Shannon discuss:  

• How safe sanitation is a cornerstone of human health and society.

• Where poop goes when it leaves our bathrooms.

• The importance of investing in safe, scalable bathroom technologies now for future generations

• When will water scarcity impact our bathrooms and what to do about it.

Find out about what happens every time you flush in this very special debut episode. 

We’re back in the middle of life with another installment of our “For the Love of the Middle” series. This episode marks the return of the amazing Dr. Jim Burns to the show. He is an author and founder of HomeWord, a non-profit organization aimed at helping families and individuals strengthen their relationships. Dr. Burns has over three decades of experience as a speaker and is the author of books such as “Life With Your Adult Children” and “Finding Joy in the Empty Nest”.  

With his typical humor and self-awareness, Dr. Burns draws from his own experiences as a father in the middle of life–and also shares insights from his vast experience working with families and individuals. In this interview he touches on topics like loneliness in older adults, coping with post-divorce friendships, and enabling versus helping your adult children.

Join Jen and Dr. Jim Burns as they discuss: 

• Navigating the loneliness felt by those 50 and older and how to prepare for that early on.

• Finding meaningful friendships as a single person in a coupled world.

• Giving advice to adult children without sounding critical.

• When helping becomes enabling with adult children.

• Easing the burden of the Empty Nest by investing in hobbies and community.

Jen and Dr. Burns offer practical advice for maintaining and cultivating adult friendships and how to move through the challenges of parenting adult children with grace.

* * *

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“One of the positive things that I saw was that the people who had good adult friends are the people who did well early on and made decisions to join a club and put themselves out there to meet people outside of the soccer games and kid friends. That planning in advance really helped with the empty nest syndrome.” -Dr. Jim Burns

“American adults at 50+ tend to be very lonely people. In fact, there's a lot of studies on this and it's because they don't have replenishing relationships.You know, one of the best phrases that I have in my head on this is, a you know, successful and a well lived life is never accidental. And that takes time.” -Dr. Jim Burns

“If we are always giving our kids advice, which we have been pretty good at for 20 of their years,  that advice can be taken as criticism. Even if it's good advice! What they see is that you don't trust them to be an adult.” -Dr. Jim Burns

“What we have to understand as parents, just like when they were five, is that the experience is a better teacher than advice. So you can say to your kid, "Don't touch that fire." But they're gonna touch the fire sometime and then they'll quit touching the fire because they did it one time and it burnt. But it's really hard for us as parents to trust them to learn from their own experiences.”  -Dr. Jim Burns

“As a parent, the question we have to ask is, are we helping or are we enabling dependency? And a lot of parents I think are enabling dependency as in, they mean to help. But sometimes we're enabling dependency and doing that in a way that doesn't help.” - Dr. Jim Burns

Jim’s Links

Website: www.homeword.com

Facebook:  @JimBurns

Twitter: @DrJimBurns

Instagram: @drjimburns

YouTube: @homewordtoday

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Homeward

New Life Live

Dr. Burns Books: Finding Joy in the Empty Nest, Life with Your Adult Children

Dr. Burns on Jen Hatmaker in 2018 

Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website

Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter

Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube

It’s here! Our next series, “For the Love of the Middle” kicks off this week. Many of us are at that middle stage of life, and if we aren’t, we’re going to get there eventually. This series brings life, hope and humor to a period of life which can at times be surprising, confusing, but ultimately, steeped in the wisdom of years lived and the harder work of our 20’s and 30’s behind us. We’re ringing in the start of this series with an amazing first guest; Mary Pipher, a clinical psychologist, anthropologist, and author. In her full scope of work, Mary has pioneered important conversations around motherhood and raising girls. 

Mary was the first to bring the effects of culture on mental health to the mainstream, especially for women and girls. She has a deep understanding of how culture can shape our thoughts, feelings, and behavior. Her most recent work has focused on aging intentionally, peppered with her own experience and her work has inspired many people to rethink the way we approach mental health and aging within our society.

Join Mary and Jen as they discuss: 

- Pipher's background in psychology and how she became engaged in the cultural conversations about girlhood.

- The importance of cultivating personal resilience and adaptability in aging.

- How society impacts the mental health of girls and women at different stages of life.

- The cultural scripts that influence girls' body image and sexuality, and how they differ from reality.

- The role of caregivers and the challenges they face in taking care of aging family members.

Mary Pipher's work is groundbreaking in exploring the connections between culture, mental health, and their impacts on aging. Her insights are instrumental in shaping the way we approach mental health issues and caregiving, and her activism and writing continue to help women all over the world.

Thank you to our sponsors!

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Thought-Provoking Quotes!

“One of the things I really love about my life as a 75 year old is I'm very busy, but I can wake up every morning and decide what I want to be busy at. And what a gift that is.” - Mary Pipher

“Every life stage has its joys and its challenges as you know. We know that there's a lot of research that women get happier as they age. They're the happiest demographic in the world.” - Mary Pipher

“if you don't become better, you become bitter. Right? You either grow or you shrink.  You don't get to stay the same without growing. We all age, but we don't all grow. And the secret of being happy is growing.” -Mary Pipher

“I very much believe we all find what we're looking for. And if what we're looking for is joy and love and kindness and beauty and laughter, that's what we find.” -Mary Pipher

“So one of the goals of this life state is learning to detach and let go--acceptance of the fact that my world will not be as popular as before. And that means that the light I find is not in other people's eyes, it's gotta be in my own heart.” -Mary Pipher

Guest’s Links! Mary Pipher's Website - www.marypipher.com

Mary Pipher's Facebook - @authormarypiper

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Mary Pipher's Books: Hunger Pains, the American Woman's Tragic Quest for Thinness, Reviving Ophelia, Women Rowing North, Seeking Peace, The Shelter of Each Other

Simone De Beauvoir: The Second Sex

Jane Jarvis - American Jazz Pianist

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter

Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube

Every person is sexy just because they’re alive, according to this week’s guest in our For the Love of Sex Series; Dr. Alexandra Solomon. Jen & Dr. Solomon talk about how we can discover how to engage with our sexuality free from judgment or expectation. 

Dr. Alexandra Solomon is the author of bestselling books, “Loving Bravely” and “Taking Sexy Back” which both seek to empower women to reclaim their sexual journeys. As a highly acclaimed psychologist at Northwestern University, Dr. Solomon regularly presents her findings to people all over the world. 

Join Dr. Solomon and Jen as they discuss:

• Talking about sex with your partner 

• How to stop settling for less in the bedroom 

• Objectively reflecting on your sexual journey without judgment

• The real impact of trauma on our sexual selves

• How desire shifts over the course of a relationship 

Dr. Solomon explains the basic premise that undergirds her work; that every person has the right and ability to experience pleasure and joy and connection through sex.

* * *

Thank you to our sponsors!

BetterHelp | Try convenient and affordable therapy with BetterHelp anytime, anywhere. Give BetterHelp a try and get 10% off your first month at BetterHelp.com/ForTheLove  

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MeCourse | Let’s join sexologist Dr. Celeste Holbrook and Jen as they talk about real steps you can take to improve your sex life. Head to MeCourse.org/love101 to register. 

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“What stands out first and foremost about women and sex is that we are so completely objectified from the time we're little. That's the nature of patriarchy, is to objectify women. And we learn to objectify ourselves. I don't know how it is for you, but I know I have forever related to my body as a forever fixer-upper project.”- Dr. Alexandra Solomon

“There's an idea that sexiness is defined from the outside in. So in my book, "Taking Sexy Back," that's what we're taking back. We're taking back this idea that sexiness is externally defined. That actually, our “sexy” lives right here inside of us, and it always has. Your sexuality is a part of yourself. It's a part of who you are. It's your embodied relationship with touch and physical expression and pleasure and creativity and play.”  - Dr. Alexandra Solomon

“There's going to be dry spells. There's going to be mismatched libidos. There's going to be menopause. There's going to be childbirth and job changes and medical diagnoses. Things are going to happen. So I want couples to be together, shoulder to shoulder, looking at the problem together. It's not my problem or your problem. It's us looking at our sexual connection. How do we as a couple cultivate this, nurture it, tweak it over time? Making love as 50-year-olds is going to look and feel different than making love as 23-year-olds.”  - Dr. Alexandra Solomon

“Recovery from trauma is not just about sexual pain or sadness or post-traumatic stress symptoms stopping. Recovery from trauma is also about reclaiming pleasure, reclaiming your right to pleasure, reclaiming a sense of feeling safe inside of your body. I think our capacity for healing is limitless.”  - Dr. Alexandra Solomon

“We think that if we're sex positive, it means that we're these super confident vixens and divas, and that we have to be up for anything. But we all struggle with this idea of, "Wait, can I be sex positive and a bit timid? Can I be sex positive and what we would call, quote-unquote, 'vanilla,' or not super interested in being kinky or pushing edges? Sex positivity basically means coming in with the idea that sex is natural and normal, and we're all sexual, and what we're interested in is not weird or pathological. It's coming in from a foundation of positivity.” - Dr. Alexandra Solomon

“Sex problems in a relationship are always the responsibility of both people. It's not about figuring out whose fault the issue is. When I bring up a problem or a concern with my partner, it's about “us”. It's about, "I love us, I believe in us, I value us, which is why I want to talk about this question, observation or concern I have." It's not about throwing our partner under the bus or telling them they're doing it wrong. It's about starting from that place of, "I love us, and this matters.” - Dr. Alexandra Solomon

“It’s important to examine patterns in your own relationship with your sexuality and identify how things from your childhood impact your sexual relationship to yourself and others even 20 years later. Even seemingly simple things like your 6th grade sex-ed class can have an impact.” - Dr. Alexandra Solomon

Guest’s Links Dr. Solomon’s Website 

Dr. Solomon’s Instagram - @dr.alexandra.solomon

Dr. Solomon’s Twitter - @ahsolomon

Dr. Solomon’s Facebook - @dralexandrasolomon

Dr. Solomon’s YouTube - @alexandrahs1

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Reimagining Love Podcast

Dr. Solomon’s books: Loving Bravely & Taking Sexy Back

E-Course: Marriage 101 for the Grown and Sexy

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter

Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube