This week, host Isaac Butler talks to Sally Franson, the author of two novels: A Lady’s Guide to Selling Out and the brand new release Big in Sweden, which was inspired by her real-life experience as a contestant on a Swedish reality competition show. In the interview, Sally digs into the challenges of writing her second novel and the realizations that got her unstuck. She also talks about her practice of plotting novels on gigantic pieces of butcher paper, her preference for writing under a deadline, and her decision to take clowning classes as part of a mission to write side-splittingly funny fiction.  After the interview, Isaac and co-host Ronald Young Jr. talk about reality TV, writing productivity exercises, and some of the challenges of the creative IP economy.   In the exclusive Slate Plus segment, Sally and Isaac talk about a specific fiction device that always makes them laugh.  Send your questions about creativity and any other feedback to working@slate.com or give us a call at (304) 933-9675. Podcast production by Cameron Drews. If you enjoy this show, please consider signing up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get an ad-free experience across the network and exclusive content on many shows—you’ll also be supporting the work we do here on Working. Sign up now at slate.com/workingplus to help support our work. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices