On this episode of Conversations with Tom, Donald Hoffman and Tom Bilyeu discuss the fascinating possibilities that stem from the theory that evolution gave us the equivalent of a desktop interface that hides the real truth from us so that we can take effective action. They discuss the nature of consciousness, free will, space-time, causality and the self. [Original air date: 5-28-20]. SHOW NOTES: Most of us believe that we see reality as it is. But we don’t. [1:14] Donald describes how mathematical game theory explains natural selection [3:42] Donald talks about a game he created to simulate evolution [9:33] Seeing the truth and seeing what you need to survive are very different things [13:51] Evolution gave us the equivalent of a desktop interface, not the truth [18:11] Every creature has a different user interface and perceives a different reality [24:57] If we let go of logic and reasoning, then we have nothing left [32:10] There will always be unprovable truths. You can never know it all. [35:14] Donald describes the process by which you “see” an apple [42:05] Evolution tells us that the language of space and time does not describe reality [47:53] Donald proposes that reality is a vast social network of conscious agents [49:39] A conscious agent creates their interpretation from their experiences [53:32] What is consciousness? [57:12] What does a conscious agent need to do? [1:00:49] Donald and Tom discuss fascinating cases of split-brain patients [1:08:13] If space-time is doomed then is causality doomed as well? [1:22:17] Donald discusses free will and its relationship to cause and effect [1:28:01] The self is a construction just like space and time [1:30:27] You can never experience yourself choosing [1:39:15] Donald describes the experience of realizing that he is just inside a VR headset [1:40:01] What’s the difference between math all the way down and turtles all the way down? [1:50:25] Tom and Donald discuss the double-slit experiment in physics [1:56:18] Donald talks about his wife and his marriage [2:01:49] Donald and Tom discuss the possibility of taking off the headset [2:03:10] Donald and Tom discuss why they haven’t used psychedelics [2:07:10] Since space-time is doomed, what’s next? [2:13:27] CHECK OUT OUR SPONSORS ButcherBox: Get your choice of a free protein in every box for a year, plus that $20 off your first order with code IMPACT at https://butcherbox.com/impact. Tonal: Go to https://tonal.com and get $200 off with promo code IMPACT. Huel: Try Huel with 15% OFF today using code IMPACT at https://huel.com/impact. Miro: Bring your teams to Miro’s revolutionary Innovation Workspace and be faster from idea to outcome at https://miro.com. Design.com: Ready to transform your brand? Head to https://design.com/impacttheory and get up to 88% off. FOLLOW DONALD: WEBSITE: https://bit.ly/2WLu47l TWITTER: https://bit.ly/2WKJ0SX FOLLOW TOM: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter: https://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here. If you're serious about leveling up your life, I urge you to check out my new podcast, Tom Bilyeu’s Mindset Playbook —a goldmine of my most impactful episodes on mindset, business, and health. Trust me, your future self will thank you. LISTEN AD FREE + BONUS EPISODES on APPLE PODCASTS: apple.co/impacttheory Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices