In this episode of Empire, Robert Leshner - founder of Compound Labs - joins us to discuss how DeFi will evolve in the wake of Operation Choke Point 2.0 and the coordinated effort to debank crypto. We discuss what this means for today's DeFi protocols, the end of the DeFi Mullet thesis and how teams will respond. Then we explore Robert's thoughts on why MakerDAO's RWA strategy is short-sighted, the stablecoin landscape, the AppChain thesis and more! - - Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:24 Operation Choke Point 2.0 07:24 Compound Treasury and the DeFi Mullet 11:19 The Return of DeFi? 16:09 BTC vs ETH 19:17 Building in the US vs Offshore 26:25 Real World Assets 28:52 Quicknode ad 30:38 Synthetix Ad 32:17 Stablecoin Landscape 39:48 The AppChain Thesis and Value Accrual 48:24 Reputation, Limit Orders and Security - - Follow Rob: https://twitter.com/rleshner Follow Jason: https://twitter.com/JasonYanowitz Follow Santi: https://twitter.com/santiagoroel Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod Subscribe on YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/4fdhhb2j Subscribe on Apple: https://tinyurl.com/mv4frfv7 Subscribe on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/wbaypprw Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/  - - This episode is brought to you by Quicknode. QuickNode is an end-to-end blockchain developer platform that makes building Web3 apps easy. Go to QuickNode.com and use code Empire for a free month on their feature-packed Build Plan! - - This episode is brought to you by Synthetix. Synthetix Perps is the most efficient decentralized perpetual futures engine, with 5/10 bp fees and up to 25x leverage. With a growing list of over 20 tradable markets, Synthetix Perps are available on Optimism via Kwenta.io and Polynomial.fi, with more coming soon! As a permissionless liquidity layer, Synthetix makes it easy for any protocol to integrate perps and earn 5%-10% of trade fees. - - Resources Compound https://compound.finance/ Bell Curve, S4 Premiere: A Journey Into The Dark Forest https://spoti.fi/3MpTjWH - -  Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.