In this conversation, Joel and Chad interview Stacey Gordon, founder and principal consultant at Rework Work, about unconscious inclusion, skills-based hiring, and the politicization of DEI. Stacey emphasizes the importance of actively working towards unconscious inclusion. She discusses the need for dialogue and open conversations to bridge the gap between different perspectives. Stacey also addresses the challenges of changing mindsets and the role of education in DEI. She highlights the benefits of skills-based hiring for diversity and inclusion and the need for ongoing training and implementation. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the politicization of DEI and the importance of shifting mindsets in the workplace. Takeaways Unconscious inclusion is the goal of DEI, where people are included without conscious effort or bias. Skills-based hiring can be a powerful tool for diversity and inclusion, as it focuses on the qualifications and abilities of candidates rather than their background or identity. Changing mindsets is crucial for progress in DEI, and ongoing education and training are necessary to shift perspectives and behaviors. The politicization of DEI can hinder progress, and it is important to have open conversations and bridge the gap between different perspectives. DEI is not limited to race, gender, or sexual orientation, but encompasses all aspects of identity, including socioeconomic status, religion, and language barriers. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction and Welcome 03:01 - Unconscious Inclusion: The Goal of DEI 08:11 - The Politicization of DEI: Challenges and Opportunities 11:21 - Changing Mindsets: The Key to Progress in DEI 18:45 - Bridging the Gap: Open Conversations and Different Perspectives 24:14 -The Power of Skills-Based Hiring for Diversity and Inclusion 27:26 - DEI Beyond Race and Gender: Embracing All Aspects of Identity 30:00 - Conclusion and Call to Action Keywords unconscious inclusion, skills-based hiring, DEI, politicization, diversity, inclusion, mindsets, education