A quarter of a million people now participate in regular cyber attacks against Russia. We hear from one of the volunteers, Oleksandr Naumenko. And also from US-Russian cybersecurity expert Dmitri Alperovitch. BBC Ukrainian service reporter Olga Malchevska recalls a recent visit to her home town of Kyiv and the trauma of seeing in person her bombed childhood apartment. As Western leaders gather in Madrid for a NATO summit, Sam de Bendern, former NATO Ukraine officer, tells us why they will eventually have to stop sitting on the fence when it comes to the war in Ukraine. And we get an update from Pavel Shulga, who travelled to the region of Lysychansk to deliver humanitarian aid and evacuate women and children from battle zones. We hear why he’s already back on the road. Today’s podcast was produced by Estelle Doyle with Ivana Davidovic, Osman Iqbal and Louise Hidalgo. The technical producer was Cassie Galpin. The editor is Jonathan Aspinwall. Email Ukrainecast@bbc.co.uk with your questions and comments. You can also send us a message or voice note via WhatsApp to +44 0330 1239480.