Welcome to episode 31 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives. 

The presenters – Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and journalist Jo Confino – are joined by lay Buddhist practitioner and artist Paz Perlman to talk about how mindfulness can support a healthy relationship: a core practice in Engaged Buddhism.

Paz Perlman is a Zen Buddhist practitioner and a visual artist, who regularly exhibits in the United States and Europe. She has studied with Thich Nhat Hanh for the past 15 years and is a member of the Order of Interbeing. In her artistic practice, she integrates Buddhist concepts such as impermanence, healing and transformation. In recent years, she has increasingly incorporated activism into her works and is presenting a large-scale installation at an upcoming retreat of climate leaders in Plum Village. Paz, who moved from New York to live a few minutes walk away from Plum Village, completed her art degree at Central St Martins, University of Arts, London. Read her artist statement here.

Paz and Jo have been married for 15 years; in this episode, they talk about how making the Buddhist practice of Beginning Anew part of their daily life has nourished their relationship. This practice of looking deeply and honestly at ourselves, our actions, speech, and thoughts, creates a fresh beginning within ourselves and in our relationships with others.The couple further share about discovering Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings and integrating them into their life together; developing a shared spiritual aspiration and practice; their special marriage ceremony in Plum Village, including vows, and tea with Thay; relationship dynamics; maintenance and renewal; deep listening and loving speech; intimacy; and the four essential mantras in the practice. Brother Phap Huu discusses the same Buddhist practice, but in relation to a monastic environment; the four mantras to take care of relationships; the insight of interbeing; perceptions about others; mental formations; hugging meditation; and the energy of gratitude. 

The episode ends with a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu. 

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:https://globaloptimism.com/ 

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resourcesPlum Village Communityhttps://plumvillage.org/

Paz Perlmanhttps://www.pazperlman.com/ 

Beginning Anew: Four Steps to Restoring Communicationhttps://www.parallax.org/product/beginning-anew-four-steps-to-restoring-communication/

‘Extended Practices’https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/extended-practises/ 

Sister Chan Khonghttps://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khong/ 

Sister Jinahttps://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-dieu-nghiem/ 

The Four Noble Truthshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy-RI3FrdGA 

Deepak Choprahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepak_Chopra 

Thich Nhat Hanh On…: ‘Learning to Hug’https://plumvillage.org/articles/learning-to-hug/ 

Dharma Talks: ‘The Practice of True Presence’https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-practice-of-true-presence/ 

How To: ‘Begin Anew’https://plumvillage.org/articles/begin-anew/ 

Quotes

“Taste of tea, taste of time.” 

“Thay talks about what happens in relationships. A lot of little things can happen that annoy or cause offense, or which on their own aren’t very big – and often, as a result, don’t get dealt with. And so he talks about a stalagmite in a cave where there’s a small, small drip of little things – but those small drips eventually create a huge calcified monolith. And that if you don’t address things when they arise, then they get buried and can turn into resentment and into anger.” 

“Love is a wonderful thing, but at the same time it doesn’t survive on its own unless you look after it.” 

“Thay’s practice is actually a masterstroke. When people talk about problems, their relationship, and we talk about the Beginning Anew practice that Thay developed, a lot of them who have tried it say it has really, really helped them. And this is a core part of Thay’s teachings: that he has the deep insights that lead to practical application. And that one practice has been instrumental in us maintaining a healthy, vibrant, and happy relationship.” 

“Practices create spaciousness and trust.”

“I had been involved in personal development for many, many years, and when I came across Thay’s teachings, what came to me so quickly was just how gentle and deep they are. Because, in my early life, I’d been doing much more wrestling, mental and emotional wrestling, with issues in my life – which had its place at that age. But then I got to the stage where I realized that I needed something much more gentle, something that I could rest in rather than fight with.”

“The practice brings a wonderful space of communication; when we are in any relationship, we want to have understanding because understanding is a bridge that connects all of us.” 

“There is a logic – I call it compassionate logic – to the order of the stages. You first water the positive seeds, which is like, ‘First: happiness’; first something which can give us a base [from which] to talk later on about our suffering.”

“It’s not about being perfect, it’s about being a better person. And I want to add that it’s not about being a perfect relationship, but to know that we have a path. And when we have a path, we know that we can always fall onto it. And we have a place that can hold us. It’s like a compass; it brings us straight to the line with our aspiration to have a good relationship.”

“Love is a living thing, it is not something that you receive once and will last forever.” 

“When we listen like that, we are also practicing interbeing. We’re practicing ‘Your suffering is my suffering, and my joy will also be your joy.’ So my healing will also be your healing. My transformation will also be your transformation. And this is where love has no boundary. And this is a very deep teaching of Buddhist love.”

“Thay said, ‘You can share the same bed, but if you don’t share the same aspiration, then that relationship will not blossom.’” 

“Love is energy. It’s a kind of nutriment that helps our well-being, and it belongs also in the dimension of spirituality, because when we get in touch with love, that gives us the energy to take care and transform suffering.”