“I didn't know where we were going, and I didn't know how long we were going to be gone. I brought no food, not even a bottle of water. When that boat left the dock, I felt so free. I threw off all these anxieties about control.” –Carl Hoffman In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Carl talk about the premise of The Lunatic Express, which took Carl around the world on a series of local buses, trains, planes, and ferries (2:30); how to overcome the common fears of traveling in this manner, and how tourism infrastructure isn't required for travel in places (9:30); how making yourself vulnerable to new places leaves you open to the people who live there (22:30); the role that simple conversation, smells, and open-ended activity plays in the lives of isolated communities (30:00); and Carl's advice for leaving yourself open to spontaneous travel experiences (40:00). Carl Hoffman (@lunaticcarl) is the author of four books, including The Lunatic Express, and Savage Harvest: A Tale of Cannibals, Colonialism, and Michael Rockefeller’s Tragic Quest. Notable Links:

• People, Places & Things (play starring Kristen Bush)
• Meridian Hill Park (urban park in DC)
• Maggie Downs (travel writer)
• "Strange Bird" (Outside article about a pilot in the Congo)
• Moluccas (archipelago in Indonesia)
• Asmat (region in Papua)
• Sambal (Indonesian chili sauce)
• Buru (island in Indonesia)
• Pramoedya Ananta Toer (Indonesian novelist)
• Suharto (Indonesian president from 1967-1998)
• Sons of the Waves, by Stephen Taylor (book about sailors)
• Sago (palm starch used for food)
• Cando (town in North Dakota)
• Mentawai Islands (archipelago in Indonesia)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.