Today we are joined by Ben Forman, one of the most prolific investors in crypto, to discuss the day DeFi almost died: Black Thursday. The industry was a few liquidations away from an extinction event. Tune in to hear the riveting story and how Black Thursday has shaped MakerDAO and crypto's development! We also discuss why Ben believes RWAs and permissioned DeFi is the next narrative, Binance FUD, investing in private vs liquid markets, return dispersion, incoming regulation and more! - - Timestamps: (00:00) Introduction (01:34) Binance FUD: Signal or Noise? (07:36) Operation Choke Point 2.0 (11:19) Return Dispersion (16:29) The Moment of Reckoning (23:16) Base’s Market Impact (26:16) Early Stage vs Liquid Market Investing (38:35) MakerDAO’s Black Thursday Almost Killed DeFi (45:50) “Valora Ad” (46:50) The State of DeFi (54:07) USDC, A Structural Reset and Regulation (1:05:00) Tokenization of RWAs and Permissioned DeFi (1:08:00) Key Learnings and Fire Round - - Follow Santi: https://twitter.com/santiagoroel Follow Jason: https://twitter.com/JasonYanowitz Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod Subscribe on YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/4fdhhb2j Subscribe on Apple: https://tinyurl.com/mv4frfv7 Subscribe on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/wbaypprw Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/ - - This episode is brought to you by Valora. Valora is a self-custody, mobile-first wallet... and the easiest way to send, swap, collect and purchase digital goods on the Celo blockchain. Download the app and start exploring today at valoraapp.com/empire. - - Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.