Modern anti-doping is in crisis. The central institution in charge of the effort, WADA, has lost confidence among national anti-doping agencies like USADA as well as athletes. While the heyday of performance enhancing drug (PED) use is over, problems remain. Among best estimates, PED usage remains high. Efforts aimed at 'clean sport' have caused an assortment of harms to athletes, be it reputational harm, privacy invasion, financial hardship and more. Is there a way to limit PED use in sports without a zero tolerance prohibitive approach that causes backlash? Dr. Paul Dimeo of the University of Stirling thinks so. In his new book 'The Anti-Doping Crisis in Sport, he and co-author Verner Møller argue things have gone too far. Instead of punitive, zero tolerance approach, they offer a new set of solutions to curb PED use and penalize those caught, but focus on strategies that take the rights of athletes seriously. In this interview, Dimeo and I discuss the book, what he makes of the case of Jon Jones and oral Turinabol, how anti-doping institutions have lost the trust of the sporting public, and much more.