“I’m terrified at the moral apathy – the death of the heart which is happening in my country. These people have deluded themselves for so long that they really don’t think I’m human. I base this on their conduct, not on what they say. And this means that they have become, in themselves, moral monsters.”

James Baldwin said it in 1963.

Dr. Ricky Jones, from the University of Louisville, reflected on it in journal.com/story/opinion/columnists/ricky-jones/2018/06/27/ricky-jones-wonders-james-baldwin-right-white-americans/737721002/">a recent column for the Courier-Journal. That got the attention of Fox News, and Jones appeared on Tucker Carlson's show last week.

As you might imagine, it didn't go too well.

Jones says it's all part of his job: teaching. He joins us this week to talk about what Baldwin meant, how it relates to our country today, and what happened after that interview.