The glass ceiling is the classic symbol of the barrier women bump into as we go through our careers. But for women of color, that barrier is more like a concrete wall. If we’re going to reduce workplace sexism and racism, women of all ethnicities need to work together. And it will be tough to do that unless we feel more connected to each other.

We talk with professors Ella Bell Smith and Stella Nkomo about how race, gender, and class play into the different experiences and relationships white women and women of color have at work. They explain how those differences can drive women apart, drawing from stories and research insights in their book, Our Separate Ways.

Our HBR reading list:

Our Separate Ways: Black and White Women and the Struggle for Professional Identity, by Ella L.J. Bell Smith and Stella M. Nkomo

“How Black Women Describe Navigating Race and Gender in the Workplace,” by Maura Cheeks

“Why Aren’t There More Asian Americans in Leadership Positions?” by Stefanie K. Johnson and Thomas Sy

“Asian Americans Are the Least Likely Group in the U.S. to Be Promoted to Management,” by Buck Gee and Denise Peck

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Our theme music is Matt Hill’s “City In Motion,” provided by Audio Network.