Hosts Rania Khalek and Kevin Gosztola are joined by Alex Vitale, sociology professor at Brooklyn College and a coordinator of of the Policing and Social Justice Project. He's also the author of The End of Policing, which is a best-selling book from Verso. E-book copies are available for FREE at . The conversation focuses on the limitations of police reforms, many which have been proposed for decades. Alex particularly highlights the reforms that were proposed by President Barack Obama's administration after Mike Brown, Freddie Gray, Sandra Bland, Eric Garner, and Tamir and so many others were murdered. "It did nothing to change policing. It did nothing to save George Floyd's life, and people have had enough of it," Alex declares. "They understand that radical changes to our reliance on policing have to be enacted." According to Alex, the response to Floyd's murder caught the establishment media off guard because they were ignoring what communities were doing across the United States to shut down a gang unit or move police overtime into social programs. Alex describes some alternatives that may be pursued by cities that want to turn away from relying so heavily on police. He breaks down what it may mean to "defund" a police department. Later in the show, Alex addresses the issue of protest policing as well as broken windows policing in the country, which reforms pushed by Democrats do virtually nothing to change.