An immigrant’s unpredictable journey to America doesn’t end when they get to the border. Political stunts by Governors Greg Abbott and Ron DeSantis sending asylum seekers to the steps of the U.S. Capitol and Martha’s Vineyard is the latest reminder. Andy speaks with two people embedded in the journey to the U.S., LA Times reporter Molly O’Toole and New York Times reporter Michael Shear, who explain the messy, lengthy process asylum seekers face. They discuss why deterrence policies don’t work, the flawed myths behind “good” and “bad” immigrants, and why we'll see more Afghan immigrants crossing through Central America.

Keep up with Andy on Twitter @ASlavitt.

Follow Molly O’Toole and Michael Shear on Twitter @mollymotoole and @shearm.

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Check out these resources from today’s episode: 

• Read Michael’s piece about how Biden hopes small changes to the asylum seeking process will go a long way on immigration issues: immigration-asylum.html">https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/27/us/politics/biden-immigration-asylum.html
• Listen to Molly’s Pulitzer Prize winning story about the Trump Administration’s “Remain in Mexico” policy: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/688/the-out-crowd
• Find vaccines, masks, testing, treatments, and other resources in your community: https://www.covid.gov/
• Order Andy’s book, “Preventable: The Inside Story of How Leadership Failures, Politics, and Selfishness Doomed the U.S. Coronavirus Response”: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250770165 

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