In this two-part episode recorded in 2018, economist and author Mariana Mazzucato discusses her book, The Value of Everything, with UK Labour MP Stella Creasy. It's a wide-ranging discussion looking at how real wealth is created in our economy and how we can measure the true worth of both infrastructure and services. Mariana Mazzucato is Professor in the Economics of Innovation and Public Value at University College London. We’d love to hear your feedback and what you think we should talk about next, who we should have on and what our future debates should be.  Send us an email or voice note with your thoughts to podcasts@intelligencesquared.com or Tweet us @intelligence2.  And if you’d like to get ad-free access to all Intelligence Squared podcasts, including exclusive bonus content, early access to new episodes and much more, become a supporter of Intelligence Squared today for just £4.99, or the equivalent in your local currency .  Just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices