Over 200,000 Americans have now died from COVID-19, homeland security expert Juliette Kayyem told Boston Public Radio on Wednesday.

“And we suspect that this is an undercount, because maybe some people are not being counted for dying of COVID, or they had an underlying condition which catches them first,” she said. “There’s excess deaths everywhere we look, so the 200,000 number, I think, at the minimum is shocking, outrageous, inexcusable enough, but it’s probably not the right number.”

Kayyem is an analyst for CNN, former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security and faculty chair of the homeland security program at Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government.