Last week, the Columbia Journalism Review published a four-part investigation into the media’s fraught relationship with Donald Trump. In this episode of the Kicker, Jeff Gerth, who authored the report, talks to Kyle Pope, CJR’s editor and publisher, about the origin of the investigation and the intense responses to it, with which Gerth admits he is still “grappling.” On the podcast, Gerth says he considers his 24,000-word story an “anatomy,” reconstructing how the media covered Trump and Russia. In reporting the piece, Gerth interviewed Trump at – predictably – a golf course, and reached out to dozens of journalists who covered Trump-Russia, albeit with limited success. “Many of them are loath to want to discuss or/and engage with what they do,” Gerth says in the episode. “I find it perplexing.” For additional news on this story and on the media, subscribe to CJR’s daily newsletter at cjr.org/email