This episode is a conversation with author Nathaniel Kennon Perkins, whose book The Way Cities Feel to us Now is available now from Maudlin Press. We talk about writing a screenplay in Mexico, leaving the Mormon church as a young man, living in vans (which we both did when we were young), we talk about freaking out after putting art out into the world, and about experimenting with psychedelics during our formative years. Music by Michael Kilcullen.