If there’s ever been a wild wild west of podcast interviews on this show, this might be the one.

I’m recording with my friend, Ian Williams. He’s the owner of Deadstock Coffee in Portland, Oregon, which is a coffee and sneaker-theme shop. There’s no other feeling like walking into Deadstock—you’re always greeted by the baristas, customers and staff clearly know each other well, and the space invites a lot of discussions, a lot of back and forth. “Yes, this is a sneaker-themed coffee shop, no the shoes are not for sale, yes we will put a stencil of a sneaker in your hot chocolate.” The conversation I have with Ian is a singularity, kind of like Deadstock itself. No one else could have opened Deadstock. No one else could have created the environment that Deadstock has, and we talk a lot about this—about the source of originality, especially in coffee, where it feels like every new shop opening has the same aesthetic.

Ian has been roasting coffee for Deadstock for a few years and recently kicked off a campaign called “Coffee Should Do Better,” which we get into, but for the most part, this interview is two friends shooting the shit. Ian’s computer keeps beeping, I’m eating stale bread for some reason, we make fun of each other a few times, there’s a rotating cast of characters. It’s fun, but it’s also illuminating, and grounded in the current moment. We recorded this episode about five months after COVID-19 forced many coffee shops to close, but Ian’s business is different. It’s thriving. And people are asking him why. There’s no one answer, but it starts with breaking away from the cookie-cutter model of what a coffee shop needs to be. Here’s Ian.