Deadspin Senior Editor Ashley Feinberg joins The New Republic's Brian Beutler to explore how the key to winning the VP debate was getting into Trump’s head one way or another. At the first vice presidential debate in Farmville, Virginia Monday night, where her running mate Tim Kaine browbeat Trump’s running mate Mike Pence repeatedly, forcing Pence to choose between defending the indefensible and lying. In the immediate aftermath, pundit-theater critics declared Kaine the loser against Pence, and perhaps the public will reach the same conclusion. But already we’re seeing clear signs that winning in the moment was less important to team Clinton than relitigating Trump’s basic indecency and driving a wedge between him and his running mate.